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Abreha The Adulisian And The Soi-Disant Agazians

As an introduction and in an effort of rendering a general overview, here is a thumbnail account of a man named Abreha who ruled Yemen sometime in the time span 531-565 AD. The Abyssinian historical mythology claims that Abreha was an Axumite Abyssinian who  led a military campaign of King Kaleb of Axum and defeated a Himyarite king to become the ruler of Yemen. But the question that I intend to address in this article is: Was Abreha actually an Axumite Abyssinian or an Adulisian?

Before dealing with the question of where Abreha hailed from, let me get down to brass tacks that are mostly agreed upon by scholars of the region. Abreha, also known as ” Abraha al-Ashram” was a viceroy who ruled over Yemen for the kingdom of Axum. Later on he declared himself an independent king of Himyar. He ruled the present day Yemen and Hijaz and is known in the Islamic traditions or literature as“Abraha al-Ashram”. [1]

“In the aftermath of the massacre of the Christian community of Najran by the ruler of the Himyarite Kingdom Dhu Nuwas, the King of Aksum, Kaleb, sought to avenge the deaths of his brothers in faith by launching a punitive expedition (520) into the Yemeni kingdom. Dhu Nuwas was deposed and killed, prompting Kaleb to appoint a Christian Himyarite, Sumuafa Ashawa, (Esimiphaeus) as his viceroy. However, around 525 this viceroy was deposed by the Aksumite general Abreha with support of Ethiopians who had settled in Yemen, and withheld tribute to Kaleb. When Kaleb sent another expedition against Abreha led by ‘Ariat this force defected, killing their commander, and joining Abreha. Another expedition sent against them met the same fate, leaving Yemen under Abreha’s rule”.[2]
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” Abreha not only declared himself independent of the kingdom of Aksum, he also styled himself as King of Saba, and Dhu-Raydan and Hadhramaut and Yamanat. He sought to promote Christianity in the predominantly Jewish kingdom while also attempting to antagonize the Kaaba in Mecca, a major religious center for the adherents of Arabic polytheism. Abreha therefore ordered the construction of the Al–Qalis (also known as Al–Qulays and Al–Qullays) Church in Sana’a. Letters were sent to both Aksum and the Byzantine Empire, requesting marble, craftsmen and mosaics. The absence of mosaic making tradition in Pre-Islamic Arabia and Ethiopia at the time, along with the frequent use of mosaicists by the Byzantines to achieve diplomatic objectives corroborates that the Byzantines complied. Historian Procopius records that an envoy was dispatched to Abreha during the reign of emperor Justinian I, placing the construction of the church between 527 and the late 560 AD”. [3]
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According to the Islamic belief, Abreha launched a military expedition against the Quraysh of Mecca in an invasion of Hejaz in 570,  known as the Year of the Elephant. The ‘tafsir’ (exegesis) of the surat al-Fil states that he perished. The Islamic traditions also say that Abraha is said to have built a cathedral at San’a’ known as al-Qullays (from the Greek Ekklesia) to rival the Kaaba at Mecca and he specifically came with his forces of elephants to destroy the Kaaba. [4]
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Now the question is: who was Abreha or “Abraha al-Ashram”? was he an Aksumite Abyssinian as most, if not all, Eritreans were led to believe or was Abreha an Adulisian? I believe that he was neither an Aksumite Abyssinain nor a member of the so-called Agazians. I aver that Abreha was an Adulisian, tout court! Let me see if the available literature back ups and countenances my assertion about Abreha was from Adulis and he was NOT an Aksumite Abyssinian.
“Abreha began his career as a slave of a Roman citizen in Adulis in which case he may not have been an Axumite at all but might instead have been taken into bondage from one of Aksum’s African vassals”.[5]
It makes sense why Abreha had first refused to pay tribute to king Kaleb of Aksum and then declared himself independent of the kingdom of Aksum and styled himself as nothing but a king of Yemen. Had Abreha been a through and through an Axumite Abyssian, he would not have gone this far to dissociate himself from the Axumite kingdom. But the fact that he was NOT an Axumite but an Adulisian was what had spurred him to tell king Kaleb to go fly a kite and to declare himself independent and to style himself as a king.
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Now one may ask: what about the putative Agazians? Is there any historical evidence that proves the existence of a group of people called Agazians who lived in Abyssinia or Eritrea, or for that matter, was there an outmigration from Yemen of these so called Agazians, as some would have us believe that “Agazian are from Yahsib”? The answer is a resounding NO.
 .
” Although some Abyssinians called themselves during the middle ages Agazians, there is no reason to assume that the Axumites regularly used ”Agazi” as a generic name for themselves, given this name is nowhere attested in Axumite inscriptions. Although the term “Agazian” has been read in the fragmentary 6th century G’eez inscriptions from Zafar in Yemen, that text is too badly damaged to provide any indication as to who was meant by this name.
 .
For all we know these putative Agazians were mercenaries from the Ethiopian highlands recruited by the Axumites [to join Abreha’s military expedition].  Abreha, a six century general who seized power in Himyar (531-547 AD) bears a title that has been interpreted as the “Agazi King”  (mlk ‘g’z’y), in the famous dam inscription from Marib in Yemen. The meaning of the title is enigmatic in that Abreha was at this time no longer an Axumite general but rather an autonomous ruler of Himyar. As Muller notes in his edition of the text, an alternative reading ” ‘L’zyn” is also possible. Abreha’s title in that case be reconstructed as ” Malik Ella Uzayan” with no connection to the Agazi at all.
 .
It is perfectly plausible that Agazi, though originally a name for a single group in the Ethiopian highlands, may have been adopted by Ethiopians in later centuries as a generic name for themselves.” [5]
 .
It makes no sense for a king who had styled himself as a King of Saba, and Dhu-Raydan and Hadhramaut and Yamanat, to limit and curtail his power by calling himself merely the “Agazi king”. It is utterly unreasonable to expect Abreha who was not an Axumite to accept a generic name as a reference when he had declared himself independent of the kingdom of Axum. An appellation that may have specifically identified a contingent of a mercenaries from the Ethiopian highland (the Agews of Lasta) could not have been used by Abreha to identify his kingdom or its population.
To conclude, though the vast Abyssinian historiography with all its mythopoetic capabilities claims that Abreha was an Axumite Abyssinian, the fact remains that Abreha was an Adulisian. The term Agazian nowadays pointedly and specifically refers to an armed contingent of the Weyane led Ethiopian armed forces, in the times of Abreha it was a name of a single group of mercenary soldiers from the Ethiopian highlands ( Agews from Lasta) and the current Amhara ethnic group in Ethiopia may have more dibs on the term Agazian than any other ethnic group, be it in Ethiopia or Eritrea.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraha
[2] Munro-Hay, Aksum: An African Civilization of Late Antiquity, pp. 80-83.
[3] King, G. R. D. “SOME CHRISTIAN WALL-MOSAICS IN PRE-ISLAMIC ARABIA.” Proceedings of the Seminar for Arabian Studies, vol. 10, 1980, pp. 37–43.
[4] https://quran.com/105
[5] Hatke, Axum and Nubia: Warfare, Commerce and political fiction in ancient Northeast Africa, pp.39-41.

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  • Abraham H.

    Selamat Forum,
    The YPFDJ thugs are out again and threatening Eritreans in the diaspora. This extension arm of the PFDJ thugs inside Eritrea should not be allowed to operate freely in the free-world and they’ve to be exposed and challenged wherever they might be. Here is one such reminder to all Eritreans in the Netherlands which I’m copying from the facebook page of brother Kubrom Dafla:
    An Appeal to The Dutch-Eritrean Community
    Action to Foil the YPFDJ European Conference in Holland
    From next Thu, 13/4 to Sun 17/.4/17, the Isaias regime has organized a European wide conference for Youth-Pfdj, its daughter organization. The Dutch authorities, including the media, are wary of this conference because it has elements inviting antagonism, that pose danger to peace and order of the Dutch public.
    This is a call to all Dutch-Eritreans, whether or not, we are citizens, residents, and refugees, to use our rights, to formally register, with the police, a declaration (‘aangifte’) that the Ypfdj, poses danger to our personal safety. Because what should worry us, also worries Dutch authorities, including several parliament members (2de Kamer), and the security. Issues about the Ypfdj may cause harm to Eritreans and the Dutch.
    1. That Ypfdj thugs are going door-to-door, forcing Eritreans to pay money for this conference and for 2%.
    2. That they are issuing false “receipts” without legal details, means they are hiding their actions from public.
    3. That they are putting on a black list and intimidating those Eritreans that refuse to pay;
    4. That the infamous “Eri-Blood” gang, which is feared to be armed, is capable of physically harming anyone;
    5. That a Dutch court, established last year, that Ypfdj, as a possible ‘intelligence arm” of Isaias; the public speech of Yemane G/Ab, at Ypfdj conference in Germany, being the major evidence of it.
    6. That all of this has been organized, in December 2016, by high ranking officials of the regime.
    Etc., etc., because of all the above, is this Ypfdj conference, is a threat to, us, Dutch-Eritreans.
    That is why, we should, go and declare this facts to the police. We are being threatened by phone and in person as “traitors”. The reasons are laid down above. Let us exercise this right of ours immediately, but in any case, before the conference commences. Let us support the effort of the Dutch authorities by coming out to register officially our fear of the situation.
    Your brother, Kubrom Dafla Hosabay,
    Nb. if for any reason, the police refuse to receive your declaration (“aangifte”), please let us know as we have, legal help by our side. Contact: +31-6-8534-1768, email: kubromdafla@yahoo.com

    • Nitricc

      Abraham; Are you a thug? if they are thugs, you must be on too by extension, no? I know you may find it very hard to understand but if you can have the right to oppose the government why no give them the same right to support their government? Look what you have said
      ” PFDJ thugs inside Eritrea should not be allowed to operate freely in the free-world”
      you are not making sense; if it is indeed a free world why not allowed them to freely operate? if it is truly free, must stay free.
      Next time never the use the word thugs to describe your younger brothers and sisters. I know since your group has lost the art of persuasion, and the only you people are left with is confrontation, I can see where you are coming from. what is wrong in trying to convince rather than calling them names?

      • Abraham H.

        Hi Nitricc,
        I said, “This extension arm of the PFDJ thugs inside Eritrea, i.e. the YPFDJ, should not be allowed to operate freely in the free-world…”. Have you read the rest of the message that I copied from Kubrom Dafla’s facebook? I don’t think so, becasue, if you did, you would aslo read that these YPFDJ thugs are going door to door where Eritreans reside in order to make them pay for the PFDJ brainwashing conference as well as the 2% tax; and if they don’t do so, they are intimidating them, blacklisting them, even the so called Eri-blood thugs, supposed to be armed, are ready to use force against Eritreans. Nitricc, again, the free-world is for those who operate legalily, and respect the human rights of others, not for the PFDJ gangs who are operating with impunity inside Eritrea and want to extend their ugly practices to the free, democratic world.

  • abysinay

    SELAM LEKUMU
    MR GETSAB .SO YOU MEAN ABRHA WAS A BANDA WHO BETRAY HIS KING AND HIS PEOPLE.

  • Brhan
    • Nitricc

      Hi Brhan: reading your post, I am wondering why you are allowed to break the rule of the forum? You know no one is above the law and the rule is no posting links on weekdays; however your link still stands. I have nothing against you but don’t you think the rule should be just that and should be applied for everyone? Besides, what kind of history is made by signing on a toothless and worthless petition? Besides the toothless petition, what is wrong if the use in diaspora get the opportunity to know thier history and know their country? I don’t how you see things but for me, I see nothing wrong if the youth is getting aquatinted with their culture in thus increasing confusing world? Would you rather prefer to see the youth get lost and hook up on the wrong side of activity? I guess you prefer the youth getting hooked up on the lost side of this world that getting to know about thier country and people. Some times I wonder how you people process this dangerous world the youth is confronting. In every way you slice it, your take is diploroble and it lacks the reality of the current world. You seem to be blinded by the current political situation.

      • Brhan

        Hi Nitricc,
        It is a petition, if you sing the petition, good,and if not no one is forcing you.

        • Nitricc

          Brhan, I didn’t say I was forced. But why are allowed to post a link while every one isn’t? Start answering the question than difllecting it. I do agree though that is a toothless petition.

          • Brhan

            Hi Nitricc,
            My comment is relevant to the discussions. Petitions make history. Through petitions pro democracy Eritreans made a number initiatives successful such as banning the 2% Tax.

          • Nitricc

            Hi Brhan; I think you are missing my point. My point is, you take might have some relevant to the discussion but what I am saying is that you are breaking the rule of the forum to make your point. Just on that ground, your take bacomes irrvelentnt. There should no be an issue relevant by breaking the very rule of that the forum that the forum obeys by it. So all I am saying is redardelss how how your take is revelant, always should obey the rule of the land. Again, I have no personal issue with what you have to say but I got an issue under the circumstances it was said. It is simply an act of corruption. That is all. If we are going to have the rules, then let’s apply for every one at all the times. That is all brother.

          • Hayat Adem

            Nitricc,
            I just don’t want to let you have the last say on this. Brhan is not missing your point because you didn’t have one. He is not breaking the law as the law itself exempted him on the exceptional ground of the fact that his link is a petition and not another typical internet product. So stop repeating that as if you hold him breaking a law and you care for a law. Two, that is not the only thing you said. You also said petitions are toothless and have zero contribution in history. You are wrong on this as well. Petitions matter.

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam Hayat Adem,
            .
            Nirticc was talking to Berhan, while looking to the right to annoy the Awate University lawyers.
            Thanks for coming from the left side and slapping sense into him. I was thinking what to say to him when you intervened. Thanks.
            He might hold grudges but he is learning the hard way.
            .
            Mr. K.H

  • Thomas

    Dear Awatista,

    Gheteb’s contradicting stand can be detailed below. If you would like, please add or elaborate to the below statements:

    1) His article above talks about centuries ago history and argues about non-habesha or habesha. Obviously, there was no Eritrea or Ethiopia at that time, are we really to discuss about ancient people with no countries and with people only making their lives by simply trading and fishing among each other? Are we not living in the world where the dominance of technology and global marketing is changing the past its entirety? In a time where the U.S.A, Russia, EU, China and other supper powers have a control the market of our world? Why is this becoming habesha or non-habesha so important?

    In a time where the civilization of ancient Iran/Iraq, Egipt and Greece (the creatures of athletics, democracy and Science) has not added value and means nothing except pride of the past doing/history “Once up on the time, people from these countries where very smart and were very civilized because they were making good poetry”. If these countries where a few of the most civilized and progressive nation hundreds of years ago, at the present they are either in civil wars or remain to be very poor. The fact they are placed in good history books means nothing except admiration of their past history.

    2) While Gheteb likes to talk about EPLF (a movement born from ELF), he admires the child (EPLF) and not (ELF). We might think he is into events done back in history (old times), here we see he is being selective. He is argument has lots of big visible holes.

    3) Gheteb admires EPLF, but he even admires Issayas or the current regime more than anything done in the past. So, Gheteb is simply not a principled person. There is no correlation whatever he says. This guy thinks that he really is the universe: lived in north pole, south pole, equator and all in between areas.

    • Abi

      Tomy
      You are missing the point.
      Gheteb is fighting Agazian movement in his own way. He is boldly telling the two Tigrewoch divided by the Mereb river never had anything between them.

    • Kokhob Selam

      Sir,
      Excellent !

      • G. Gebru

        Well come dear Kokhob Selam. Wish you permanent recovery.
        God bless you.

      • Mesfin

        Dear kokhob, I hope that u r doing well. I love reading your comments.

    • iSem

      Hi Thomas:
      Gheteb told Saleh he was talking about DNA and not identity when Saleh gave him a bullet proof, coherent, cogent and consistent analiys on the shades and layers of identity. But if he is going to talk about DNA, I challenge him to invest a fraction of the $50,000 he wagered me to dare me to expose him on testing his DNA and then see what he finds. I bet he will find some Jewish, Turkish, Egyptian, Nigerian (Tokrir and there are many of them in his home town and who knows…) and even Somalian in him.
      But we know why he does what is does: it is not for intellectual truth but for hate and distraction. And when IA decides he would mend ways with TPLF, Gheteb will immediately find historical facts that would link us with Tigray and he would look you in the eye and tell you how Tigray is par of us
      Gheteb is unnatural; he writes laboriously, he thinks vaguely and he debates contradictingly. But he has more problems with his identity: given what IA and PFDJ think of the Jeberty, does Gheteb think Jebertis are ethinc on their own right or do they belong to the Tigrinya ethnic. There are Jebrti and Tigray and Eritrea and also I met a Somalian Jeberti two Romadans ago. Like IA, like Yemane Monkey, like those who are wreakcing havoc, Gheteb has unresolved childhood and identity issues, am sure of that

      • Simon Kaleab

        Selam Semere A.,

        You said: “Like IA, like Yemane Monkey, like those who are wreakcing havoc, Gheteb has unresolved childhood and identity issues, am sure of that.”

        Are you qualified to make this statement? What are your credentials? Have you made a scientific examination on these individuals?

    • Mesfin

      Gd day AT!

      Thomas, u did well. I was confused when I was reading the article. From the title, I expected some kind of scientific presentation, but got disappointe. Hiztory of Agaizian is more than 3000 years, and not hundreds.

      Thank you

    • Simon Kaleab

      Selam Thomas,

      What do mean by “There is no correlation in whatever he says”?

      Correlation between what and what?

    • Selamat Thomas,

      Some take it as a given that Erythrea to be a Greek word. You say there was not a State called Erythrea during Abraha’s time some Sixteen Hundred years ago. What if I were to produce you a map circa 450 BC with the location clearly marked as Eritrea as City State regional neighbor to Athens, Chalcis, Decelea, Marathon, Boeotia. Eyboea, Attica, Attica Attica Attica!

      RUBBISH comment. There are lots of correlations to be made. As to the degree of the coefficient, see Saay7’s Oramia global news interview with IA. Myth is in AND IT DON’T GET BETTER THAN Greek mythology.

      Where is Pillar FAB5 Weopon X these days? The Best Sixth Man of the bench is as obtrusive as is Herculean Gheteb.

      Thebes, Coronea, Plataea, Eritrea….

      tSAtSE

      • Berhe Y

        Hi tSAtSE,

        I think you are referring to Eretria, a town in Greece, not our own Eritrea.

        Berhe

        • Kim Hanna

          Selam Berhe Y,
          .
          Oh!, Berhe Y, look what you have done. You opened a Pandora’s box of potential article subject matter for “Gehteb” to drill deep, I mean really deep and come up with the connection of Eretria and Erytheria.
          .
          Hint: The Greek Orthodox church…..missionaries…archaeology……
          .
          Berhe, forgive me for a little wisecrack–retort–flippancy, I couldn’t resist.
          .
          Mr. K.H

          • iSem

            Hi Kim:
            I can image the Gheteb titling his article: “Sue me if you want, but I am not Habesha I am Corinthian”

      • Hayat Adem

        Oh tSatSe,
        How come you missed this? Even the neighboring city states you mentioned would clearly hint the geography of that Eyrthrea. You are usually careful in leaving safe exits obscured in the language style and sarcasm applied in your comments.
        My bigger point: what is this need and urgency to run away from our own? Running from oneself is an endlessly tiresome and futile run. Isn’t the political justification enough for Eritrea’s separation and independence?
        It might be possible for identity, culture and history to be made today for tomorrow but totally impossible to make them today for yesterday however tempting one finds it worth trying. That wrong fierce urgency is chasing you to look for Eritrea in the anncient maps of Greece.
        Gheteb is exactly in that effort. In the end, he will quit somewhere and come back to criticize such exercises from the other end. A single change of move from IA will make him do that and comeback to tell you how fetish that kind of thinking and exercise were without taking personal responsibility.
        Funny that we are talking about Abreha of Adulis. Should we be even bothering ourselves that monkey’s father is straight from India, IA’s parents are from Tigray, SibHat is from EntiCho of Tigray, Alamin’s wife is Oromo, and so was the mother of the late Ali Said, etc. All these are less important. DNA is never an identity but a biology.
        What we need to see from these current politicians is not where they descent from but what they are exactly doing? How we best deal with history is accept it as is. Remember, history doesn’t need us. We need it. What we need of the future is to know that it is in our hands to shape it. The future needs us as we need it likewise.
        Many of my messages are less of the past and more of the present/future. I am the inverse mirror of Gheteb.

        • Selamat Hayat and Berhe,
          Okay you got me. I tho ought I get in on the act. Oh well so much for Greek mythology.
          As you were.
          tSAtSE

  • Abraham H.

    Hi Gheteb,
    Do you believe/accept that the Axumite kingdom had control over Southern Arabia/Yemen? If your answer is yes, then how do you think it could control territories across the Red Sea without controlling the main port city on the Eritrean side at the time, Adulis?

    • ‘Gheteb

      Hi Abraham H.,

      You ask:
      ” Do you believe/accept that the Axumite kingdom had control over Southern Arabia/Yemen”?

      The simple answer is NO and here is why.

      For starters, the story of Abreha the Adulisian points you to the direction that Adulis was not a mere extension or appendage of the Axumite kingdom. Rather, the relationship was nothing more than a trading partnership and a loose alliance, paying tribute to Axum sometimes and briefly Adulis may have been under the Axumite suzerainty.

      What is more, is the fact that we have two evidences that militate against the claim that Adulis was part and parcel of the Axumite kingdom.

      (1) Zoscales was an Adulisian king as was mentioned in “The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea”.

      (2) Monumentum Adulitanum (ኣዱሊሳዊ ቅርሲ ) is another important source of evidence that Adulis was the site where a king’s military adventures were recorded.

      Now, given these historical facts, how can one conclude that Adulis that “Adulis” was under the control of the Axumite kingdom? Speaking about the Axumite kingdom’s control of Southern Arabia/Yemen, it is thoroughly belied by this article’s narration of Abreha the Adulisian.

  • saay7

    Adulisian Greetings Cuz Gheteb:

    Before I forget (I don’t want to violate protocol): Is there a secret Adulisian handshake?

    If you google the word “Adulisian” every single reference is to your article, as it appears at awate or some other website which has borrowed it. So this is as exciting as staring at a telescope and viewing the birth of a new planet.

    I had a friend (RIP) who used to say that the people of the region (Middle East, Northeast Africa) are so stubborn that God sent more prophets to that region than the rest of the planet. On the same day we are reading about the awful massacre of Christians by so-called Muslims in Egypt, your article includes reference to the massacre of Christians by Jews—1700 years ago. Frozen in time, and arguing about nothing.

    Anyway, this Abrehe dude (who is always referred to as viceroy or ambassador in every book I have ever read. Ambassador of whom? Endiee? Nere dye?): what is it that he did besides lose spectacularly in a war? Any architecture? Any libraries? Anything that survived him and bettered humanity? And, um, if he was a Roman slave, he could have been a Somali, a Djiboutian or from Tanganyka, no?

    I don’t know if the original Agazian are Agew but I pray to God that is true because that would at least shut the hell up of the Agazian…because in Eritrea, the Agew are the Blin people.

    This reminds me of the dark era for Eritrean Muslims in the 1980s: hopeless about the future of Eritrea, many resorted to seeking glories in the ancient past of Islam. I feel like all this Agazian, Adulisian, haluma jera is because the future of Eritrea looks bleak. Your favorite website, cousin, Erimedrek, had this to say today in its analysis under the headline:

    ፕረዚደንት ኢሳያስ ከም ኩሎም ናይ ኣፍሪቃ ምልካውያን ስርዓታት፤ እምነቱ ናብ ጸቢብ ትሕተ – ሃገራዊን ስድራቤታዊን ምትእኽኻብ የቕነዖ ምህላዉ ተሓቢሩ

    ጎኒ ጎኒ እዚ ተርእዮ፤ ፕረዚደንት ኢሳያስ ኣብ ዕለታዊ ስረሓት ተገሊሉ ኣብ ዓዲሃሎ ከምዝውዕል፤ ብዘይካ እቲ መብዛሕትኡ ዘይሳለጥ ናይ ኣባይቲን መሬትን ጥርዓናት ዝሓዘ ወረቓቕቲ ሒዙ ዝመላለስ ኣቶ ኤደን ፋሲል፤ ካልእ ብዙሕ ዝረኽቦ ሰብ ዘይምህላዉ እቶም ምንጭታት ይሕብሩ። ብመንገዲ ክልተ ኣባላት ሃገራዊ ኣገልግሎት ናይ ኣባይትን መሬትን ጉዳያት ከምዝከታተል ዝሓበሩ እቶም ምንጭታት፤ ንባዕሉ እቲ ፕረዚደንት እውን እንተኾነ ነታ ሃገር ዝቐበጻ ሙኻኑ ዝእምት ብዙሕ ባህርያት የርኢ ምህላዉ ገሊጾም።

    Translation for Abi: President Isaias, like all African dictators, is directing all his faith on family and narrow subregions. He spends all his time isolated in Adi Halo and with the exception of Eden Fasil, who brings him grievances and complaints about the never-resolved issue of land and housing, he meets nobody. Even the president has given up on the country and his behavior is consistent with someone who has done so, according to our sources.

    I wonder what Ambassador Abrehe the Adulisian would make of this 🙂

    saay

    • Abi

      Thanks Saay
      You never leave me behind!
      I think Kibur President is suffering from withdrawal of something.
      Depression is always a possibility.
      I want to know what Ambassador Gheteb, permanent representative of Eritrean government at Awate would say regarding this withdrawal of his present.

    • ‘Gheteb

      Ahlan Cuz SAAY,

      First, about the simply coined word ‘Adulisian’. The suffix “…ian” is added to mean “relating to” or of or that of Adulis. One can peel off a tangent and talk about all manners relating to this term, but from where I sit, the word is strictly related to ” Adulisian paradigm”, “Adulisian civilization” and “Adulisian narratives”. I am not saying that people can’t creatively add to the word things like greetings or jargons to their hearts’ content.

      Second, let me get this out of the way. You seem to go on this straw man’s arguments and quite often avoiding the issue by digressing and straying of the issues at hand and seemingly bringing other extraneous subjects that are not related to the article’s main thrust and salient points. Not that I mind it that much, I wish you can proffer your take whether it is a critique or even a complete take down, but I want to see that “vast store of erudition” that I have come to know that you are known to speak from.

      Third, let me ask you this: If you consider that the Agazaians are not “the good guys”, what makes those Eritreans who unabashedly profess that they are “Habesha” better than those they have been unremittingly decrying?. Do you consider that you are a “Habesha” and why? If one is happily brandishing that s/he is a “Habesha”, why then s/he bellyaches about those who claim to be “Agazians” in the same breath.

      Fourth, if you were to be convincingly shown that not only the soi-disant Agazians were Agews from Lasta, what would you say that the second head of the whole “Habesha” hokum, the Amhara, are Agews in origin, but have claimed the “Habesha” thing since I don’t know when.

      Fifth, why is that those Muslim “Habesha” men or the Jebertis don’t wear what is considered as a typical “Habesha” dress known as a ‘tunic’ or “Eje Tebab” — “እጀ ጠባብ” — ? I thought the “Habesha” ‘identity’ has one uniform clothing, at least for the men.

      Six, Abreha the Adulisian, was, like it or not, originally from what is Eritrea or not, the fact remains that he was an Adulisian thoroughly acculturated to the very port city, learning the lingua franca and the local language to raise to a level of a general and command an army and eventually to declare his independence and style himself as a King. Now you can mince words and demand to be shown a library or other buildings Abreha to have built. We are talking about an era where the libraries where slabs of stones with inscriptions and the building are buried ina helluva of sand.

      Seven, I know that you always seem to revert to your favorite hobbyhorse which is talk, again talk, about Isaias ad infinitum. Well, I won’t disappoint and I will say this about the report by the Mederk folks that Isaias, ” ፕረዚደንት ኢሳያስ ከም ኩሎም ናይ ኣፍሪቃ ምልካውያን ስርዓታት፤ እምነቱ ናብ ጸቢብ ትሕተ – ሃገራዊን ስድራቤታዊን ምትእኽኻብ የቕነዖ ምህላዉ ተሓቢሩ”.

      Of course, they claim that they got this scoop from their reliable sources inside Eritrea. Well, I find it utterly unbelievable, to say the least. Even if this story was true, who are those that Isaias is allegedly surrounding himself with? Any names? I thought Aba Khebdu, Andeberhan, is of the conviction that PIA is a Tigrayan from the ‘Agame’ region. So, are we talking about these sub-national families and regions from Tigray or Eritrea.

      BTW, have both Andeberhan and Dr. Asefaw raised any concern when more than 6 of Isaias’s siblings joined the EPLF? If they didn’t then, why all the grousing and cheap propaganda reporting now?

      • saay7

        Hala Couziney Gheteb:

        My answers from the bottom of my heart on this holy day of Easter:

        1. Don’t care.
        2. My erudite reputation is vastly overrated.
        3. The Agazians called for exterminating Eritreans. The “Habesha”, to my knowledge, haven’t. Lately. Also, people I really like and respect used to say things “Habesha ymesl” when they saw someone who looks like me and you (skinny, triangular face with bug eyes).
        4. Don’t care.
        5.They don’t? Don’t care at all. I have been to some “Eritrean Muslim cultural” event and I have seen some wear it. At the risk of offending people (oh, come on people, take it easy), I think the eje tebab is not attractive clothing. My guess is that it is the Muslim Habesha to blame: because they were tailors 🙂 My guess is also they copied it from Pakistanis because there is very little original thing that your Adulisians, Habesha, Agazians ever came up with. (Yeah, I went there.) so go easy with your glorification.
        6. I would like to borrow the capital letters from Semere T (pardon me Semere T) now and say I DONT CARE 😂 I will go further and say nobody except you cares about that 🙂
        7. Ohhhh, this I really, really care about. Your demigod, isaias, appears to have thrown in the towel and recognized what the rest of the world recognized years ago: he is a terrible president and as a veteran awatista, Serray, used to say, he has the Reverse Midas Touch: everything he does turns to ashes. What Eri Medrek is saying is that he is just another African tyrant and his power transition is the same one used by every African tyrant: wife, children, and “Deqi Addey, deqi gezawtey.”

        Sorry, not sorry:)

        saay

        • ‘Gheteb

          Ahalan Cuz SAAY,

          I am still chuckling thinking about how many times you said ” I don’t care”, “I

          • saay7

            Hala Cuz Gheteb:

            I will skip (A) above…until I hear the word “Adulisian” from anyone except you. By the way, whatever happened to the Adulis Throne? Never mind, don’t tell me, I forgot I don’t give a tattler’s donkey:)

            On B, I have seen a long train of Ethiopian opposition and their enablers get interviewed by His Dementedness. They both get something out of it: he gets the delusion that he is relevant and a player in regional politics (a role not available to him at AU, COMESA, IGAD and other genuine regional and continental organizations dominated by his peers like Paul Kagame.) They get to tell their constituent that there is someone who cares about them and change is a-coming soon. This has been going on with all the alphabet soup of Ethiopian opposition groups an leaders, many of whom are now exiled, dead or in Eritrean prisons. “Winning!” as drug-addict and delusional Sheen said, in his classic video:

            https://youtu.be/9QS0q3mGPGg

            saay

          • ‘Gheteb

            Ahlan Cuz SAAY,

            You have “don’t cared” all the way down to your favorite hobbyhorse and here you are talking about “IA and his flunkies”. I haven’t seen anyone using such phraseology to describe the person you would love to talk about 24/7. But, that is fine with me. I understand why you want to do that, but c’mon Cuz, we need a serious reality check here.

            Say all you want about the man, but you can’t deny that he has a sizable audience, never mind followers, not only in Eritrea and the Eritrean Diaspora, but within the ever growing anti-TPLF Ethiopian communities or ethnic groups.

            Given these facts, I don’t understand why you seem unable to cross this conceptual barrier the man, I mean “His Dementedness” is still relevant, however much you want to see him gone from the scene. Can your takes and analyses be tempered by these glaring facts?

          • saay7

            Hala hala Cuz Gheteb:

            I hope I didn’t offend you with “don’t care” but I really don’t. I saw your exchange with Abi and I got the sense that you want, like a prosecutor, all questions answered and I gave you my honest answer. Don’t care about Habesha, Agazian, or your latest fetish “adulisian.”

            I care about IA and only because he has total and complete control of Eritrea and he is doing a terrible job of governing it. Nothing personal at all. If it was Abdella Idris or Saeed Saleh or TimsaH I would say the same thing.

            Ethiopia has a population of 90 million and it is governed by a “winner takes all” government which has made it its business to alienate 75% of its population so it stands to reason that there will always be Ethiopians trekking to Eritrea out of sheer desperation (because Europe, the US are not paying attention to them.) And unfortunately for them, and I mean this from the heart, he has nothing to give them: what’s that Arabic expression Abu Salah: faqd alsheye la yuEti? You can’t give what you don’t have. If you have done a terrible job of running an inclusive government, a govt run by rule of law, and democracy, you can’t lecture about it. Well, you can, but only the delusional will listen to a crazy person.

            saay

          • Abi

            Hi Saay
            I see you wasting valuable words to describe His Excellency. Let me help with a one liner
            “ከሞተ አንበሳ ልክስክስ ውሻ ይሻላል” ይላል ያገሬ ሰው
            One more? Sure!
            “ከቆመው ትንሽ ነኝ ከሞተ ባላንስም” አሉ አይተ ኢሳይያስ አንገታቸውን ሰብረው
            “አጆካ!!!” አለ ጌተብ ሲያፅናናቸው
            “ተባለ እንዴ” አለ ፀሃዬ ዮሃንስ

          • saay7

            Abi:

            I would like to throw in my Amara proverb candidates for my state of mind:

            ሁሉ ያልፋል: እስኪ ያልፍ ያለፋል
            ለህሉም ግዜ አለው

            As for the Oromo News Network, listening to Isaias lecture them about democracy, and human rights, and inclusiveness, they should have said:

            ለማያውቀሽ ታጥበሽ ቅረቢ

            Bam!

            saay

          • Abi

            Hi Saay
            BAM!!! Is Right!
            “ለማያውቅሽ ታጠኝ” (R rated)

            “ቀን እስኪያልፍ ያባቴ ባርያ ይግዛኝ”

          • ‘Gheteb

            Ahlan Cuz SAAY,

            No, Sir. You have NOT offended me at all. I am just sharing with you my feedback and observations about you from this side. How could I be offended by someone telling what he wants to passionately talk about, be it about Isaias or soccer or even a movie. I am the kind of guy, if you insist I will just say ‘whatever floats your boat’ and will move on the next thing.

            Now, just consider the following. Compared to the Eritrean opposition groups, I see what these Ethiopian opposition groups have gained from Eritrea or PIA. I know you are saying that ” he has nothing to give them”, but I can tell you what they are getting from him. Training, experience and a safe base. Unlike the Ethiopian backing with the Sana Forum and all the money, if truth is to be told, the Ethiopian opposition are doing much, much, much, more better than the Eritrean opposition group.

            Your assertion that ” only the delusional will listen to a crazy person” is a highly subjective opinion, I am telling that I can’t disagree more. These Ethiopian opposition groups are not in Eritrean to learn the nuances of a Jeffersonian democracy, but an art of how to conduct an effective rebellion against a government. Then who better to learn it from than from the one who has been through it for almost a quarter of a century.

          • Abi

            Hi Gheteb
            I agree with you. General Molla is a great example. Tom Clancy will never imagine what General Molla did to IA.

          • Saleh Johar

            Hi Gheteb,

            Zager and almost all of the surrounding areas were abandoned due to the bombing. But there are Jebertis in Karneshim though very few, but they are all over the area, in AdTeklezan to Beleza to Nefasit to Sheketi and Saharti, and many other areas.

            On Bashay Serur, just consider that time makes us forget a lot of things. If it was Sariano, we wouldn’t be talking about Ejje Tebab–you didn’t bring his name to prove he wore Sariano–we were not taking about that, but the type of tunic that he wore. I don’t think Sariano is a tunic.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Selam Saay (Aya Adi’U),

            Though, it makes me proud to listen as a reflection to the Eritrean patriotism and heroism, we can’t live on our past patriotism and heroism. Each generation is confronted with different challenges. I am of the opinion that those virtues of commitments are not transcended to the current struggle. Our people has never faced such a cruel regime, and instead challenging it with more patriotism and heroism, they are leaving the country in droves. Instead what should be done to our predicament, singing about our past heroism won’t help us anything. Some could say it is good to instill courage, but if it does not have context to it, it does not mean anything. Sad as it is, Our people are disintegrating all over the world to find peace and tranquility.

            Regards

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam Amanuel Hidrat,
            .
            I have to disagree on this one narrow particular point.
            .
            I believe it is a blessing that this “Gheteb” and other similarly formed individuals spend their TIME and ENERGY on research and hollering of this kind. More power to them.
            Can you imagine having him be part of a discussion or a movement to do something now or plan for the future in the real world.
            He could use up all the oxygen in the room, wherever he goes, by being contrarian as saay described him. He is marching to a different drummer. His absence from the real world in the current situation or marginal participation is positive. You certainly don’t want him in a meeting where unity of purpose is being debated. You will have no idea what un-relatable idea he will pull out to change the subject.
            The Lord works in mysterious ways, someone said, when logic was invoked to advance illogical ideas.
            .
            Mr. K.H
            .
            P.S
            I hope you understand what I am trying to say. Sometimes, in the past, I came back after a couple of days and found myself not understanding what I was attempting to say in my posts. I admire folks who write for a living and defend their statements after decades.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Selem Kim Hanna,

            Honestly, I do not understand what you are trying to convey. What has to do my comment with “Gheteb”. None. But, my eyes fall into one of your statement. You have said “You certainly don’t want him in a meeting where unity of purpose is being debated.” Without going at length, I can only say I wish. But for the record, I challenged him two years ago, to arrange a kind of town hall meeting with my “colleagues” to debate on national issue even with his “current stand” on the regime. For obvious reason, he failed to meet the challenge. By know you are a senior participant in this forum, and you can’t forget what I am telling you. But, pls why do you want to insert “Gheteb” to my comment? How do you relate your comment to your comment? please clarify your comment in context to my comment.

            regards

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam Amanuel Hidrat,
            .
            Oops!, my suspicion is confirmed. Sorry about that.
            .
            I will try to explain, circumstances permitting, what I tried to convey in the near future.
            For now, let me just say this.
            You were addressing saay who was addressing “Gheteb”. Your characteristic emphasis, on this and other posts, is to focus on the current realty of Eritrea.
            “Gheteb”s on the other hand, is ancient history, not just ancient history, but extreme out of sight kind of history.
            .
            My unsolicited advice to you was not to invite this guy to discuss current realty of Eritrea because he is a “contrarian’. I don’t see any positive, productive engagement with him. He is out side the planet of logic.
            .
            Sorry again, I will keep trying.
            .
            Mr. K.H

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Selam Kim Hanna,

            Your first sentence mislead me to interpret your whole message the way I did. Thank you very much for the clarification.

            ‘regards

      • Saleh Johar

        Hi Gheteb and Saay,

        First, I find myself tempted to own what Saay just commented, with a few additions.

        1. I am Habesha and I cannot threaten myself like the Agaazian are threatening to exterminate me and anyone who doesn’t subscribe to their invented hullabaloo.

        2. Are you serious when you ask why the Jeberti do not wear Ejje Tebab? You certainly haven’t been to the highlands. They do, even the Saho tribes do albeit with a little adjustment: the pants are shorter, just below the knees. In fact all our people who live in the mountainous regions wear it. But they have also adopted the jellabiyya which they wear when they are not traveling on foot or farming.

        3. The Ehhe Tebab was introduced during the reign of Tedros, maybe a little earlier by Banyan (indian) and traders from the coastal Eritrea. It’s called the Jadiphur and used by the horsemen, mainly in polo games. Even the English adopted it as a cavalry outfit. I am sure you notice it in horse races if you watch the derby.

        Would you thank your Habesha friend for this information? You are welcome.

        • ‘Gheteb

          Ahlan my “Habesha” Cousin Saleh Johar,

          Thanks for your informative input.

          I don’t know exactly when you have visited the Eritrean Kebessa and saw those Jebertis who live and hail from that part of Eritrea, but I will share my observations here.

          Speaking of the Eritrean Jebertis from the Kebessa, what I have seen those who hail from Abi Adi and Tera emni wear, MOSTLY Jellabyas (shorter ones) and not the prototypical “Habesha” tunic. I have made similar observations in the Mai Derese areas.

          Heavens, even Aboy S’rur, Keren’s chief of ‘Zar’, didn’t even wear the typical white tunic that Eritrean Christians wear during the Awde Amet holidays with all the “Habesha” zars that he was attending to.

          • Saleh Johar

            Hi Gheteb,

            You exclaimed, “Heavens”, but I am afraid heaven will not defend your claim 🙂

            What Bashay Serur wore was the the short-legged Jadiphur, and that is the one I described earlier, it’s Ejje Tebab, the mountain type. Imagine the difference between the “Midi” Selefi Jallabiya and the Sufi one–I hope you agree they are both Jellabiya, or Qemish Areb as our people in the Highlands call them.

            I first visited Kebessa (thanks to the lack of postal service and radios) to deliver 14 letters–it took me three-months. Then I stayed for a longer period, accompanying journalists, when I got the chance to see the EPLF camps in Zager, stayed in the clinic there with Mohammed Said Barih when he was wonded in his hand (I pretended I was wounded, never mind). That is just to tell you I have been to almost every corner of the Kebessa–Seraye, Akele Guzai and Hamassen–not limited to Abi Adi and Tera Emni.

            You might know Eritrean countryside better than me, and you might have ventured in those areas deeper than I did, though I doubt it; I can’t tell with certainty. But honestly (and I am not belittling your knowledge of the region), I have the feeling you haven’t seen a fraction of what I saw.

            You wondered when I visited the Kebessa regions, not that it matters, but I don’t think being exiled by the PFDJ erases our memories. Also, I have a feeling you know when I was there, but to answer your question, it was not during the time my great-grandfather and yours walked in the region. However, if the PFDJ outlawed everything I saw after 1994, I stand corrected.

            Cheers Cuz, in defiance to Saay sole ownership 🙂

          • Abi

            Selam Ato Saleh
            It is at the same clinic you read all Agatha Christie books. You told me that story before.

          • Saleh Johar

            Hi Abi,

            Nope. That was the EPLF clinic, Agatha books were at an ELF clinic. In fact it was a Swedish Mission clinic that the ELF was running after the mission left the place due to the war.

          • ‘Gheteb

            Ahlan Cousin Saleh Johar,

            The issue was never about whether you have trekked and visited all corners of Kebessa. Nor it was whether I know more than you about the Kebessa region. For all I know, you may even be more familiar with the Eritrean Kebessa not only with the people, but with all the flora and fauna of the region.

            I am narrating my observations here and our observations can’t be exactly the same. Here is an example that illustrates what I am talking about. I have stayed more than six-months in Zagir and environs and have visited and lived there ranging from Zagir all the way to Sabur in Semenawi Bahri. I have not seen a SINGLE Jeberti in Zagir as the issue we are discussing is about Eje Tebab and the Jebertis here.

            I have many observations and many pictures from historical books depicting the Eritrean Jebertis attires to have an understanding about this issue.

            I think the older ones in Keren may have referred to Aboy S’rur as “Bashay S’rur”. Last time I saw him was in late 1978, and being our neighbor, I pretty much saw him or run into him everyday. I can tell you that Aboy S’rur was a seven day ‘Sariano’ wearing guy.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Merhaba SGJ,

            I love this comment of yours, because it speaks some truth.

            Your statement: “it was not during the time my great-grandfather and yours walked in the region” tells me something about the “hypocrite Gheteb” who is trying to erase his generational link with Ethiopia. One who is not proud with his genesis or origin can not be a proud Eritrean. Like any human being the Eritrean people are migrants from different places who settled in the land we call “Eritrea”. This hypocrite Gheteb is not different from our “migration history.”His great-grandfather is landed in Eritrea from somewhere, and possibly from Ethiopia. If that is the case, why is he with so much effort try to erase our common past history with Ethiopia? Any “new established history” does not erase past history, it is a continuum in different shape and form, the same as historical materialism. Abu Salah, don’t you think so?

            Regards
            Amanuel Hidrat

        • Abrehet Yosief

          Selam Ustaz Saleh,
          This gem of information makes the time I wasted reading this article worth its while. I always wondered why Ejje Tebab looked so similar to the jodhpurs of Northern India. Now it makes sense.

    • Selamat Saay7,

      Tanganica is that like going on a Tangent or kibtSet Hagere Tanzania. Humela Jera. Hella funny. “I’m out of order? Your out of order! Attica Attica Attica!”

      tSAtSE

  • Abraham H.

    Selam Awatistas, just a simple question: what is the difference between Abraham/Abreham and Abraha/Abreha? My uninformed guess is that Abreham/Abreha/Abraha are as used in our region by the Habesha people, while Abraham is used by the Europeans. My further guess is also that Abreha/Abraha are used by the Amharas, while Abreham is used by the Tigrinyas. What is your opinion?

    • Haile S.

      Hi Abraham H.,
      Abreham/Abraham could be different from Abreha/Abraha. The later meaning shining or glittering, similar to tberh (ትበርህ) But I don’t know the original meaning of the great Abraham’s name, possibly the same thing. There are variation to Abreha like abrehe…

      • Abraham H.

        Hi Haile S, yes, the name Berhane Abrehe, the former finance minister of the PFDJ regime comes to mind; btw, I don’t know where he is today, may be disappeared like many others like him? Also one of the Tigre tribes, the Ad-Abrehe, who are definitely descendants from a certain man with a name Abrehe from the Eritrean/Ethiopian highlands, could be mentioned.

        • Haile S.

          Hi Abraham H.,
          Good examples. I should have mentioned Abrehet before tberh, a knowledgeable awate forumer at that. I guess i favored my closest. I don’t know what happened to Mr Abrehe.

  • blink

    Dear Gheteb
    Good thing is that we have never seen such and I love it. Do you remember semere Andom proposal to Ethiopia’s national language? That day my keyboard freezed but not today, you know why ? Well because we have been bombarded by the Ethiopians 3000 mythical history . I give an up vote for any thing bad or good that can cut off any connection to the land of genociders (Ethiopian leaders) to Eritrea. We have done it in 1961-1991 but we are told again and again we are one by dubious people . I teach my kids that they must not believe any myth told by Ethiopians as they say “we are one” , I explain this to my Ethiopian friends openly that we have nothing in common , I personally would love to integrate with Sudan than with Ethiopia ,as you all know all the mess we as people have is only from Ethiopia. You can find some of the Widely held and promoted but false information that has taken on a mythic quality. Misinformation which was pushed by people from southerners like you know the names … good luck with your new mission though. If it wasn’t for your issias , we could have been in better position to cut off such people hadn’t your man stifle our road to constitution at least he could have listened in 2001.

    • ‘Gheteb

      Selam Blink,

      Thank you for your honest appraisal of the so-called relation or “oneness” between Eritrea and Ethiopia. This claim that the Eritrean people and the Ethiopian people are “one people” is not only patently FALSE, but is the very source of all the misery and suffering of the Eritrean people since I don’t know when. Think of any bad event, at least politically, that has befallen on the people of Eritrea, it is more than likely that the source of the problem comes from this false claim that the people of Ethiopia and Eritrea are the same and that we are all “Habesha”. Our thirty years of armed struggle is a case in point.

      Even the language Amharic is used by the Abyssinians and their Eritrean followers in an attempt of bringing back these “Habesha” people together. If one is to dig deeper, what these proponents of these ideas want and dream of is of bringing back Eritrea to the fold of Ethiopia, actually to be a part of Ethiopia, and to back to those golden days, when these so-called Habeshas were ruling and lording over Ethiopia with impunity. The same thing can be said about the Agazians and the crypto-Agazians.

      Astonishingly, those who claim that they oppose the Agazians, will unabashedly love to profess that they are Habeshas without even batting an eyelash and as if they lack other terms or words of self-identification in Eritrea. If an Eritrean has a “Tigrigna” or a “Kebessa” or a “Jeberti” or some other appellations as ‘self-identifier’ then what is the need in adding another layer, a dubious and apocryphal one at that, to describe oneself as a “Habesha”? I think there is a deeper psycho -political need of that Eritrean to pine and hanker for such a need of “Habesha” self-identification. Hopefully, I will try to address these issues in one of my upcoming articles.

      Mind bogglingly, these Eritreans who see the need of belonging into such an undefined and dubious categorization of being a “Habesha” will go out of their way to belittle, deny and de-emphasize Eritrea’s history outside the realm of the Abyssinian and Axumite narratives, yet again showing their unease and discomfort of being separated from their comfort zone of belonging to that imagined state of being and belonging to a “Habesha” group.

      They are even willing to accept this very term “Habesha” even if this very term excludes and marginalizes the rest of the Eritrean ethno-linguistic group. I mean if an Eritrean Tigrigna speaker finds such a psychological solace and comfort in such an exclusionary term “Habesha”, then it is only logical to ask if those who claim and want to be seen as “Habesha” are Eritreans first or Abyssinians or Ethiopians, unwittingly or subconsciously. More to come in these lines of thought some time in the future.

      I applaud you that you are doing your part of not poisoning the minds of those Eritrean kids that
      you teach on the weekends with the toxic Abyssinian myths that are utterly baseless. I have seen that and I am very hopeful that the coming Eritrean generations are not only free of these myths, but I think they are immune to any other myths that these Eritrean “Habeshas” may bring up in their effort of re-connecting with their so-called “brothers” and “sisters” across the Mereb river.

      I am with you and I agree that the EPLF and Isaias were utterly blindsided and didn’t take into account the perfidious nature of the Weyane’s and all the suffering that the Eritrean people have been exposed for almost the past two decades. Well, it is up to all Eritreans to say it and say it again that we will not be blindsided NEVER AGAIAN!

      • blink

        Dear Mr. Gheteb
        You will be surprised that ,I read Mr. Saleh Gadi book (Miriam) and we are on the way reading Mr. Alem seged’s new book to the kids. The question and admiration from the kids simply out maneuver all the lies given by people who sold books by claiming our revolution was for the arabs . It is every once responsibility to raise above the current miserable situation and kill people like a rotten YG and others heinous ideas. So the work continues to completely destroy the myth from southerners.

        • Abi

          Hi Blink
          I think you chose the right book for the kids. I said before pfdj should make that book a mandatory for every student before grade 5. I hope you agree with me.

          • ‘Gheteb

            Hi Abi,

            I have a question for you at the bottom of the screen. Have you checked it out or are you unwilling to answer the question. I am wondering why Abi seems to be reluctant to answer a simple question.

          • Abi

            Hi Gheteb
            I was busy today.
            Manchester United 3
            Sundered 0

            Everton 4
            Leicester City 2

            Lazio 0
            Napoli 3
            A beautiful Sunday!!!

            Now I’m back at class reading through the comments. You are loosing big time.
            Gheteb 0
            Hayat 3

            Blink got his behind kicked mercilessly.

            Now you want me comment on whatever Lapiso said? Let me be brutally honest with you. I’m biased towards Lapiso. I never read anything he wrote. All I know about him is he was on Et Tv boring me to death.
            One evening he said
            “ኢንደኔ የእውቀት ሰገነት ላይ ፊጥ ለማለት…”I was guffawing ( thank you) on that sentence. That is all I remember about Lapiso.
            You know, a little humility goes a long way.

          • ‘Gheteb

            Hi Abi,

            Okay, now that you have gotten all the extraneous excursions of your chest, what say you about this sentence from Dr. Lapeso?

            ” የአክሱም ወታደሮች “ሰራዊት” ነው የሚባሉ፣ የዛግወ ወታደሮች ‘አማራ’ ነው የሚባሉ”.

            ” According to the Agew language usage then, a soldier of the Zagew Dynasty was called “Amhara”. Likewise, a soldier of the Axumite empire, a soldier used to be called “Serawit”.

            Now Abi, quit feigning and quibbling and try to offer a direct answer

          • Abi

            Hi Gheteb
            What is the question?
            Are we on jeopardy Mr Alex?

          • ‘Gheteb

            Hi Abi,

            You leave me no options but to conclude that you do NOT want to answer the question and now I can safely conclude why.

          • blink

            Dear Abi
            It is a book full of truth not like yours some thing like the lion thing.

      • Haile S.

        Hi Gheteb,
        I agree with what you said in your last paragraph. EPLF was not blindsided; it was just blind, naive and
        short sided. While its “brother-enemy, Weyane” was busy bringing together a certain coalition that permits the implementation of far sited program, our EPLF was busy excluding, neglecting a large chunk of its population, ኣዲኣ ገዲፋስ ሓትንኣ ትናፍቅ kind of thing. EPLF remained stuck in self-admiration of its achievement, its trophy (Eritrea) like a child who just came to own a beautiful toy clinging to it asking every neighbor to see and admire what he has on his hands. EPLF, instead of showing its trophy first to its brothers and sister and inviting and sharing it with them so that they could take the utmost care together, it was showing all the parts of its trophy to the Weyane to demonstrate the miracle it is “making” with it. Did the Weyane needed to be perfidous? I don’t think so.
        For the rest on Habesha…, you are just creating a largely out-blown bag containing every imaginable soi-disant enemy so that your arrow doesn’t miss your supposed target.

      • Simon Kaleab

        Selam Gheteb,

        Why do think Abreha failed to enter Mecca and destroy the Kaaba?

        • ‘Gheteb

          Selam Simon Kaleab,

          That is a great question, Simon, and thanks for posing it here.

          Quranic and Islamic literature tell us that the army of Abreha the Adulisian were very strong and the custodians of Kaaba has staged no defense against Abreha. Now something has transpired to foil Abreha’s military expedition or attack against Mecca or the Kaaba.

          Many are of the idea that a disease of an epidemic level may have befallen on Abreha, his soldiers and his train of elephants.

          The Holy Quran tells us that a flight of birds (a flock of birds) struck them “with stones of baked clays (brimstones) that is called in Arabic” [ Sijjil ] “which produced sores and pustules on the skin, which spread like a pestilence”.

          The operative word is PESTILENCE as in ” fatal epidemic disease”. Hence why I am of the opinion that epidemic level of disease as the main cause for the faltering of Abreha’s campaign agaist Kaaba.

          • Simon Kaleab

            Selam Gheteb,

            It is said that Smallpox, the most serious epidemic from which Ethiopia suffered in former times, probably existed in the region for at least a millennium and a half. Arab tradition holds that the disease was brought to Arabia from Ethiopia by Aksumite soldiers around AD. 370. Some historians believe that another epidemic broke out among the Aksumite troops in Arabia two centuries later, in 570 or 571.

            Is it possible that an epidemic [either within Abreha’s army or within the city of Mecca] or severe Arabian desert sandstorms, or a combination of both, could be responsible for the failure of Abreha’a army?

            Another issue is that Munro-Hay dates Abreha’s death to some time after 553 based on the inscription at Murayghän. This opens a contradiction with the date [570] of the attempted invasion of Mecca. Could this be because important figures in many religions try to align their birth dates with major events [in this case the attempted invasion of Mecca]?

          • ‘Gheteb

            Selam Simon Kaleab,

            You are making excellent points here, Simon. Thank you and I appreciate your keen ways of looking at episodes mentioned in this article.

            It is quite possible that there was an epidemic of smallpox. At least this is what I have come across this issue. ” It has been theorized that an epidemic such as by smallpox could have caused such a failed invasion of Mecca”.

            Hubbard E, Cathey, JT (2015). “The Year of the Elephant” p.88

            Also,William Montgomery Watt (1974), p.7, claims that the invasion of Mecca by Abreha the Adulsian happened around 570 or a year or two earlier. ” However, historians today believe that this event occurred at least a decade prior to the birth of Muhammad”, as you have mentioned Munro-Hay.

            I want to add also something from the exegetes of the Holy Quran. It is said that ” the birth of the Prophet about 570″ and the incident [ invasion of Mecca] happened in the very year of the prophet’s birth, barely two months before it “.

            Sandstorm as a reason for the failure of Abreha military expedition? Possible, but in my opinion, highly unlikely. Abreha , soldiers and his train of elephants were locals and possibly well acclimated to the desert weather.

            Well, regarding your assertion, ” [There is no report related to an epidemic in Mecca for that period.]”, here is what is concluded in a paper entitled “The Year of the Elephant” by John S Marr, Elias J Hubbard, John T Cathey.

            ” It is evident that an epidemic of some sort—smallpox or measles—crippled the Axumites during the siege of Mecca in 570. Fragmentary evidence supports smallpox. Subsequent larger outbreaks in North Africa and the Mediterranean littoral region were definitely smallpox. The Mecca outbreak was minor in comparison to later epidemics, but was historically important. Had the Axumites succeeded in conquering Mecca in 570, they would have instituted measures similar to those inflicted on Himyar four decades before—killing women, razing crops and enslaving its captives….”.

          • Abraham H.

            Hi Gheteb, or simply a divine intervention in favor of the Meccans??

          • ‘Gheteb

            Hi Abraham H.,

            Yes, “divine intervention” is an explanation for the religious ones. However, for the purpose of historical analysis, all other causes are also considered, looked at for and discussed.

            Since this is an article that attempts to be fact based, all angles are searched and examined. This is unlike what others barf when they spout the mythology based Abyssinian narratives.

  • Hayat Adem

    Dear Gheteb,
    I read your piece, with interest, I might add.
    1) I know you are saying Adulis was a parallel kingdom and civilization to Aksum and not part of the Axumite Kingdom but you must be bright enough to know that for established histories to reset themselves to a new departure, they need more than one person’s crazy and revisionist view.
    2) You are claiming here the man who took an Axumite expedition/mission to Yemen under the authorization and order of Kinag Kaleb of Axum was never of the Axumite but of Adulis. I would argue belonging to Adulis makes him of the Axumite whose sphere influence was beyond the RedSea and Nubia. However, since you are arguing, Adulis- not only is at a stone throw distance from the center of the Kingdom but the very port of the Kingdom – is a separate entity, it wouldn’t surprise me nor bother me (since I see the oneness) if you claim Abreha to be Adulisinain and outside the Kingdom he was serving.
    3) But the reason you put why you claim Aberha to be from Adulis is what surprised me at all. All you are saying is “because he disobeyed Kaleb and declared of and by his own. This world had seen loyal soldiers and commanders betraying their kings, sons their king father, brothers and their king brother for so many different or similar reasons.
    4) You don’t even honor your own references you picked and quoted to support your argument.. Your first quote recites, “Abreha was a viceroy who ruled over Yemen for the kingdom of Axum” That quote show Abreha entered and ruled Yemen (and Oman) as an extension of the Axumite kingdom. Your 2nd quote says, “He sought to promote Christianity in the predominantly Jewish kingdom while also attempting to antagonize the Kaaba in Mecca, a major religious center for the adherents of Arabic polytheism. Abreha therefore ordered the construction of the Al–Qalis (also known as Al–Qulays and Al–Qullays) Church in Sana’a. Letters were sent to both Aksum and the Byzantine Empire, requesting marble, craftsmen and mosaics.” Here, it shows that Abreha upheld the very mission and assignment he took from Axum about defending and promoting Christianity. And if he was sending a letter to his base (Axum) for a marble supply to erect churches in Yemen, it tells about the shared purpose of the Kaleb and Abreha staying intact until later time.
    5) I will treat your main evidence to support your assertion for putting Abreha’s identity outside of Aksum. “Abreha began his career as a slave of a Roman citizen in Adulis in which case he may not have been an Axumite at all but might instead have been taken into bondage from one of Aksum’s African vassals” In this case, Abreha was only in Adulis only as a slave and his origin might have been from elsewhere in Africa.
    6) I got an advice: the past is for learning from history; the present is for thinking and acting history; the future is for writing and creating history. Reorient us to the future and not to the past.

    • blink

      Dear Hayat
      Hadn’t you been doing it ,I mean rushing things through endless hours and then doing it again and again, that you keep bombarding us with your endless false stories of making weyane as Angels??
      Look you are expert at arranging words ,with little truth infact you are simply the best at spinning things but I am here to tell you that very few people believe your myths. So can’t we master the deceptive nature of the southerners? I mean , who could possibly master that kind of skill ? No one from our side infact no one in our region. We are here to read and judge characters.

      • Hayat Adem

        Wow Blink፣
        What is going on? What is it that you think false stories posted by me? Bring me a single false story told by me here and I promise to to disappear from this forum. If you can’t, you owe me an apology. This is one front. The other front is I can bring not one but many lies told by you here in this forum. So, you can ask me to reproduce them for your convenience and your judgement. The other bigger point i want you to be conscious is, whatever you want to say, treat it as an individual character. Do not insult people, please. That would be anal of weak character. For you, a grown up person, to say, “the deceptive nature of the southerners” shows your cheap character. The people north and south of the mereb are so noble that never deserve to be badmouthed by any person, Diapers are for managing waste in the lower riparian parts of the body. You should be conscious that there are no diapers for mouths. CONTROL!

        • blink

          Dear Hayat
          Did I struck out the ground that you live in.slow down because I am simply not going to repeatedly try to go out my way and let you shift things .Big egos will be the last beings to understand , I forget the man who said it.

          Now if in case a miracle is going to happen now let me try you by this .
          1. You claimed Eritrea was a recipient of over 1 billion birr from Weyane at some point . Prove it ? By the way I am not going to digg you about the Eritrean diplomat chat with one foreign diplomat about the war and trenches. The list will go on but I will not go to your emotional outbursts.

          • Hayat Adem

            Blink,
            I am not going to give a chance for endless shenkolel. I asked you to bring one thing. You brought about this billion birr and that should be it. But I will give you supporting evidence for this. And you should hold your peace afterwards. I’ll entertain your other lists because I know you cannot bring any. Or I can give you one more chance to exhaust your hot air. But you need to learn your lessons: do not think you can always go away with accusing of misrepresenting reality while you have no proof for that. For example, you are asking me to provide a proof that PFDJ took a billion or so an accounted money from Ethiopia. I will bring you the proof. But even if I weren’t, you can’t say that was false because you never know that. All you can say is that I couldn’t provide a reference to back it up What is not backed up with written documents doesn’t always mean false. So you are already compromising yourself that I put up false info while you can’t prove that because you can’t prove that. You are not in a position to prove that. All you have is a general feeling whatever Hayat is saying must be untrue. You have nothing more than that. So, a year or two years ago I said Giziawi Mengsti Eritrea in 1991 received some millions of money FREE for start up. The other thing I remember saying is PFDJ borrowed a billion or two from an Ethiopian gvt bank and it never returned the money. So you count on me that I will take time and provide you with a compelling evidence. That should be my burden. Your burden should be, up on my ability to produce supporting references to back that up, you should control your mouth of accusing forumers such as me. You can always doubt my opinions and weigh them against yours. But never accuse me of fabricating stories without any proof at your hand that I did so. You should assure yourself that I will never allow go away with careless and carefree accusations. The reason I am so serious with you is because I’ve never seen an irresponsible comments such as yours, not just on me but on a whole people. What kind of man born of a woman can call the entire Ethiopians “deceptive” and continue business as usual as if that was okay to say and move on. The things you are insisting proofs be presented for and the insults you are throwing on people as if insulting people is your second nature is amazing. Can you bring proof that Ethiopians, as a whole, have a deceptive nature? Can you?

          • blink

            Dear Hayat
            You are not going to bring any prove ,because you have none , I know that from the get go . What you did is as always,”hide behind your barrage of words”. You have no clue what I know and you never will , because you are just full of EPRDF propaganda machine and avoid any responsibility for your claim . Again there will never be new Hayat, .

            Oh about the southerners, I admit my mistake ,I will edit to “leaders and their crooked cadres”,we have you here in this forum. You see ,it is easy to admit your mistakes , the difference between deceptive and honest people is just that . You can say sorry or continue to be pocked when ever you open your mouth.choose any , Pinekyo the character with longer nose or chameleon .

            You can say what ever you want and I will throw them all to spam or trash box.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Selam Blink,

            Good! you admit your mistake. it shows part of your character. You don’t call the entire population deceptive, that is the rule of political argument. Usually governments are deceptives’. Governments do evil acts, and hence focus your criticism on governments however you decipher them.

            regards

          • Hayat Adem

            Blink,
            I will give you the following links and it is good this is weekend.
            1) The first one is a video clip of Tekie Fessehazion briefing journalists and if you mark your pointer to around the 5th minute, you will hear him saying that Eritrea received 50 million birr free as a start up subsidy from Ethiopia as a first installment because Eritrean banks were almost empty in 1991.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmQZQv4Whvc

            2) The other two links will show that Eritrea borrowed Birr 1.2 billion from the Commercial Bank of Ethiopia before the war and it never returned. This was also presented by Ethiopia to the EECC which rejected to consider saying that was just a normal default of a lender and borrower that can be handled through normal legal procedures and has no relevance with the war-damage compensation claims. In the book, you can see that on page 26; and in the report you can find that fact on page 2.
            https://books.google.com.et/books?id=DeYcAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=eritrea+and+ethiopia+and+Birr+1.2+Billion&source=bl&ots=MFEDqihcIP&sig=u9uSwiut1i1HpvVHcGM-pF7kf7I&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=snippet&q=tekie&f=false
            http://www.nbe.gov.et/pdf/quartelybulletin/Vol%2020%20Q2/Financial%20System.pdf

            3) And finally, remember I am not proving anything except that whatever I said has had some sources to back up and I was not creating them out of the blue. And the other point is if I say something in the future because I read them or heard them somewhere, you can nicely ask me to share with you my source and I may or may not be able to provide them but don’t jump guns and accuse me of feeding false information. You are exposing your ignorance when you do that. To accuse me of false story, it is not enough for you to only know what the story is in totality but you should also know that i was doing it on purpose to misinform because I may also put incorrect info due to errors or innocent mistakes.
            I hope you learned your lessons.
            NOW NEXT (I’LL GIVE YOU ANOTHER CHANCE TO PROVE THAT I EVER PUT UP FALSE STORIES.) GO FOR YOUR 2ND SHOT AND WASTE MY TIME AGAIN, BUT AFTER YOUR 2ND TRY, YOU NEED TO BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO APOLOGIZE OR GO TO YOUR CAVE HEAD DOWN AND TAIL BETWEEN YOUR LEGS AND I WOULD CARE LESS ABOUT YOUR WILD AND CLUMSY ALLEGATIONS ANYMORE. BUT AT LEAST DO YOURSELF ONE FAVOR: STOP BADMOUTHING PEOPLE.)

          • Kebessa

            Selam Hayat,

            1) What I understand Ato Tekie Beyene saying on the video is, the 50M Birr is an Eritrean money that was shipped to Ethiopia from Eritrean banks. It was not a free money or loan given by Ethiopia, but an installment of gradual return.

            2) My understanding of the 1.2B Birr (from the book link) is, it doesn’t necessarily belong to Ethiopia either. It could be, it could also not be. It was the money that was sitting on Eritrean banks when both governments issued new currencies and went to war. On your 3rd link, it appears Ethiopia considers it its money. Since we don’t have Eritrea’s position, we can not render one-sided verdict.

            PS: To Gheteb: due to your mishandling of your accusation against Amde, you should be forbidden by law from using words like ‘proof’ and ‘evidence’.

          • Hayat Adem

            Kebessa,
            Well, the new Ethiopian govt was sympathetic to the situation in Eritrea at the time. So they just gave the new Eritrean gvt an unaccounted lump sum to keep things running.
            But technically, how can you say it was Eritrean money? Whatever belonged to individual Eritreans belonged to individual accounts and it must have been possible for them to retrieve it through their private accounts. Whatever of the government belonged either to the Derg or to EPLF. Tekie is saying there were some gvt money the Derg took from the banks. Of course, Derg would shipp some of the money if and when it had time to do that, just like any propery. Would you expect Derg to transfer or leave money behind for forces what they then called rebels or separatists? It is the same when EPLF forces were entering any city they confiscate the money in the banks. In fact, EPLF forces took all the money even the ones that belonged to individuals and the individuals had to redeem their money from the banks.
            You misunderstood the 1.2. It was later on that the Eritrean gvt formally borrowed from the Ethiopian Commercial Bank under the authorization of PMMZ and the conflict caught and that money was never returned.
            You again misunderstood about the Ethiopian National Bank Report. It was not reporting it to a 3rd party. It was just reporting to its own accounting system like when you do an inventory accounting for your own balance book. So, your point of “one side report” can not be valid.

          • ‘Gheteb

            Hi Blink,

            Don’t mind Hayat Adem’s hot air and all the bragging. This person is literally buried with facts and thesedays Hayat Adem feels like being buried underneath the Qoshe Rubbish Dumpsite of Addis Ababa.

            Among the litany of lies associated with Hayat Adem, here is one where this person was caught with a hand in a cookie jar.

            [[[[[ Hayat Adem • an hour ago
            Dear Awate,
            So much about PFDJ’s capability of defending surgical attacks! ]]]]]]

            https://disqus.com/by/gheteb/

            That says it all about what the mission of Hayat Adem in this Forum.

    • Peace!

      Hayat,

      Could you challenge the author the same way he is challenging everyone to bring facts to support your claim although all you have stated are personal judgments. I mean what bothers you or surprise you, how you will treat his evidences, and the ifs and mays do not add any values to the discussion at least from a reader stand point.

      Peace!

      • Hayat Adem

        Dear Peace,
        Seriously? You think that will be a hard challenge for me? Gheteb is running against an established history. Arguing on the side of an established history needs no effort. Gheteb is trying to swim against the wave and the flow and the hill all together. The established theory is that water is liquid. Gheteb is saying it is not. Well, he has to carry the burden of proving that it is not, which is impossible by my book. And Gheteb has no the tools or the contents to do that except his foolish assertiveness. And my point is, he should wise up and try something else he can chew. And you are telling me to challenge him by providing evidence that supports water is liquid. My role was not about bringing proofs of what has been established but show where his gaps are while he was trying to counter an established knowledge.

        • ‘Gheteb

          Hi Hayat Adem,

          I am trying to stay clear of exchanges between two Forumers so as to encourage the flow of ideas and to avoid deterring it by my interjections or barging into the ongoing exchanges between two or more than two discussants in this Forum.

          I am going to say something here to prove a point here. Hence why I am making an exception to my own rule.

          You said, “The established theory is that water is liquid. Gheteb is saying it is not. Well, he has to carry the burden of proving that it is not, which is impossible by my book”.

          You also wrote, ” And you are telling me to challenge him by providing evidence that supports water is liquid”.

          One can readily show why water is liquid by dint of application of basic understanding of elementary level understanding of Chemistry and stoichiometry, and here one doesn’t even need mastery of ‘analytical’, ‘physical’ and advanced ‘inorganic’ classes of chemistry. I am saying you need at a maximum an introductory level of college chemistry, to explain and prove that not only water is liquid, but why water is uniquely liquid in comparison to many compounds with a similar Molecular Mass.

          First, though, let me correct you that water is NOT liquid at all kinds of temperature. Rather, water is liquid within a range of temperatures commonly referred as “Room Temperature” ranging from 0 degree Celsius to 100 degree Celsius.

          Now, I want you to call all your Abyssinian fundamentalists confederates who are in your speed dial to come and join you for a tea ceremony in your place.

          Before your confederate friends arrive, do prepare your tea kettle by filling it with water. Also, have a beaker of water filled to its bream with water.

          While you are waiting for the arrival of your confederates, call AG and notify him that you are going to put him on a speaker phone so that he can follow the whole experiment that water is indeed in a liquid state within the range of a room temperature.

          Once all has arrived and AG is raptly listening to what is going on, your tea kettle will have evaporated changing the liquid to a gas and the water beaker with water that you have put in the freezer would have turned into ice and a solid state.

          All these unique characteristics of the water molecules is explained by the forces between molecules called hydrogen bonds. The hydrogen atoms of one water molecule are attracted to the lone pairs of electrons on the oxygen atoms of adjoining water molecules.

          You can ask AG to add some other physical and chemical characteristics if he still remembers his high school chemistry.

          Now that it can be shown why water is in liquid state within the room temperature range, why is so hard to prove the Abyssinian narrative to counter my assertion about the Adulisian narratives?

          Could it be that “The Abyssinian narrative” is based on this deep MYTHOLOGICAL sea” that has no physical presence?

          • Hayat Adem

            Gheteb፣
            Somethings are falling through the crack.
            1) I was not saying it will be difficult for me to prove water is liquid. I think I can successfully demonstrate that to a KG kid. Though I don’t call myself a chemist of any standard, it is one area I can discuss about comfortably at a non-scientists level. What I was trying to say was I shouldn’t be asked to prove the obvious (which is proving water is liquid)
            2) They say, if it is not broken, don’t fix it. No, you can’t correct me. I was using a common language and not a scientific language. In a common language: water is liquid; the solid water is called ice and the gaseous water is called vapor. I never said liquid is the only state water can be. But water can be liquid and it i too obvious water of that state to be proven to be liquid.
            3) I am okay I can handle you and your group without inviting my friends for a tea party.

          • ‘Gheteb

            Hayat Adem,

            C’mon don’t hide behind the sentence ” I shouldn’t be asked to prove the obvious (which is proving water is liquid)”. Like I showed you how you can show and prove water is liquid within a room temperature range, you could have proven the Abyssinian narratives if the Abyssinian narratives were based on substance. But, they are NOT!

            My conclusion, therefore, is that the mythology based Abyssinian narratives are unproven narration. I made my case.

            Q.E.D !

          • Hayat Adem

            Gheteb,
            Now you abandoned your entire article hanging in the cold undefended and unattended while jumping to different issues that have nothing to do with your article: Water/liquid, Abyssinia, Hirgigo etc. Funny. Have I ever said anything about Hirgigo and the Ethiopian Air Force. You must have spent some time to write the article above.Don’t you want to defend your article which I turned it upside down, instead? Or was the purpose of your article to take some attention away from Ciham’s story? BTW, you never said any thing on that story. I can invite you now to say something about her situation under your god. Would you also be quiet when one of the kids you told us you tutor are jailed at tender age by the man you worship like a god?

          • ‘Gheteb

            Hayat Adeem,

            You say, “. Funny. Have I ever said anything about Hirgigo and the Ethiopian Air Force”? Well here is what you have unabashedly wrote when you LIED through your teeth.

            ” . [[[[[ Hayat Adem • an hour ago
            Dear Awate,
            So much about PFDJ’s capability of defending surgical attacks! ]]]]]] ”

            Here is the link:

            https://disqus.com/by/gheteb/

            It was provided in my comment that was deleted for some bizarre reason. I back up what I say and I have demolished all your claims about my article. I have been defending my assertions that I made in this article.

          • Kokhob Selam

            Thank you,
            keep it up!

          • Hayat Adem

            Oh Kokhob,
            Is that you!!! This is a great day. You are the giant of my inspiration. With you around, the forum will catch fire. Thanks Kokhob for coming home and for shinning still from high above! I always wanted to write a poem when I thought of you. It seems poems express better when it comes to emotions.
            hayat is happy 2day.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Selam Hayat,

            You do not need to be an expert to argue on the basic explanation of chemistry of water. You did excellent. He knows why you brought “water” to your argument. But as an individual of pompous display, he went further unnecessary, to prove himself that he know the subject better than you. Bagabuff is always bagabuff. There is no limit in his “I know all” attitudes. Every time, I read his comment, his attitudes makes me laugh.

      • tes

        Selam Peace!

        I don’t think Gheteb is challenging everyone. He is challenging himself. I challenged him in his first article and he failed to proof his own hypothesis. If he failed in the first hypothesis how come now he produced another article without proofing the first one?

        Gheteb is writing what is was thinking all these years of his entire distorted adulthood life. And now he wants to spoil his supposed to be age of wisdom years.

        tes

  • Selam Abi,

    The aim of eritrean elites is to sever all connections with those south of the mereb. Up to now we thought that it was to separate from anything amhara (and their ethiopia), but it seems that it is even to disown any relationship with the people of tigray. The mereb river has become without its wish, the impassable great wall dividing the habesha world, as if this part was not carved out by the italians a century and half ago, from an open region where no one ever needed a visa to cross the river in both directions. This brings to mind the germans, french and italians of switzerland, as if they have no relationship whatsoever with the peoples of germany, france and italy.
    To the elites, eritrea is a parthenogenetic country, having nothing to do with the people and civilizations of the region. That is why ancient history is rewritten, and ethnic relations beyond the borders are denied, even though language, religion, and culture testify to the opposite. It could be the result of a revolt of political puberty, while political adulthood may bring different realities in the future.
    An eritrean elite (especially highland eritrean) can be the real person, an eritrean and a habesha, without any identity problem whatsoever. As much as the ordinary eritreans back in eritrea are concerned, i am sure that they see it as an insignificant problem that is not even in their everyday agenda, their main agenda being how to survive under the rule of an inhuman dictator, and not hairsplitting history and ethnic relationships.

    • Olana

      Dear Horizon
      What do you think the reason for rewriting history and denying the ethnic relationships that has been there for centuries? Eritrea is an independent country recognized by the whole world. Why some people mostly lowlanders are trying to go back to the past to distance themselves from the past shared history and shared culture and way of live even after securing their independence?

      • Dear Olana,

        This is a difficult question to answer, especially when you are an outsider. Nevertheless, my two birr worth opinion is this.
        I think that this phenomenon affects mainly ultra-nationalist highland eritreans more than others. Muslim lowland eritreans never had a soft spot in their hearts for Ethiopia, and that was the main reason eritrean revolution started in the lowlands.
        The different and the superior mentality constructed over the years in the minds of some eritrean elites needed a different history and a new unadulterated beginning. Purity of blood, history, and culture seem to be important, and a prerequisite for the independent eritrea.
        An independent eritrea with friendly citizens towards Ethiopia could be seen as a factor that could undermine Eritrea’s independence, as does shared history and shared culture. Therefore, eritrea should be made to look unique and different in everything, especially from Ethiopia, with a new history written on a clean slate. otherwise, ultra-nationalist eritreans are afraid that their journey would not be such a glorious one, and not different from moving to a small corner within the same house.
        Unfortunately for the elites this common history and culture is going to haunt them for ever, however they try to present themselves with their newfound identity.
        Finally, purposely, the regime has succeeded eritrean independence to look fragile in the eyes of eritreans, so that it could blackmail the eritrean psyche forever. The danger of course comes from nowhere else but from the same suspect, Ethiopia. Therefore, ethiopia the enemy, should always remain written with indelible ink in the mind of eritreans. The regime and its ultra-nationalist supporters are not ready to share anything with ethiopia, even if this is destroying the country.

        • Olana

          Dear Horizon.
          I agree with you it is a difficult question but I fully agree with your assessment specially with what you put in the 4th paragraph. I also think there could be a fear by the Muslim Eritreans that a strong relationship with Christian dominant Ethiopia could undermine their aspiration for fair distribution of power in the future government of Eritrea. And I believe the reason that some of these guys are supporting DIA because he is serving their agenda by escalating the hostility b/n the two countries and widening the gap of the relationship although the reality on the ground is different. Thank you.

        • sara

          Dear horizon
          in our tigrinya language parlance they say “tezaribom yezarbukha” and here in this forum you ato horizon continuously are trying to define eritrea vs ethiopia problems is because of eritreans hatred to Ethiopians , which i totally disagree because it is not true. i dont know where you got that information , by that have you been to eritrea or is there any study made on that, i am sure you can not bring any reference except maybe some of those comments spited here just to a reaction of some comments coming from ethiopians. otherwise i am sure you can not bring any substantial evidence to prove there is hatred between the people of eritrea and ethiopia. i know and i am one of many eritreans who hate ethiopian governments from haileslasie, mengstu, meles , and that is because of what we have experienced. otherwise writing here day in and day out such unsubstantiated comments will only bring more misunderstanding than friendship and solidarity and between our two peoples.

          • Dear sara.

            Of course, there is no problem between the ordinary ethiopians and eritreans. The problem lies with the regime and the elites who support the regime, whose foreign policy is anti-ethiopian in every respect. In addition those who do not want to see peace and reconciliation between the two people, for their own ulterior motives, are also included in this group. Leave the people free, and you will be surprised to see their reactions towards each other. I am sure it will be that of friendship and mutual respect.
            You cannot speak of love when some eritrean elites are happy because they think that there is famine in ethiopia and whenever there is some sort of political uprising, or are waiting for the day when egypt will attack ethiopia. They are dreaming for the disintegration of ethiopia so that eritrea will be saved. I am sure that you have heard all these, and ethiopia the beggar nation, too. These are not signs of friendship and love.
            Such things do not come from the people from both sides. It is your right to hate the ethiopian governments. We cannot say that we are happy with our governments either. They should have allowed eritrea to go its way a long time ago. Keeping eritrea by force was a big mistake. It is the lesson we learnt over the last 25 yrs. Well, one cannot regret for past mistakes, for it serves no purpose.
            One last point; you should have included the translation of your tigrigna saying.

  • Mez

    HI Gheteb,

    What do you think if we do DNA test to see if the Adults line of hetitage is unique than the Axumite empire decendants.

    I am willing to give sample for the test.

    My null hypothesis: all people in tigrina speaking Eritrea and Ethiopia are of the same origin….

    What do you think?

    Thanks

    • Sesen

      Selam Mez,
      No they are not. The Tigrina Erthrians came from A galaxy far far away. Their king is called a Jedi.

      • Mez

        HI Sesen,
        As you see above, Geteb defeated himself.

        Thanks for your remarks.

    • ‘Gheteb

      Hi Mez,

      I don’t think the issues that this article attempted to grapple with are about the origin of the peoples of Ethiopia/Eritrea in general and the Tigrigna speaking people on both sides of the Mereb people. However, if you want to look at the issues raised through the angle of genetic analysis, then I will address your “null hypothesis” thusly:

      First, though for those who may not be familiar with the “null hypothesis, you can find below a simple definition.

      null hypothesis
      noun:
      (in a statistical test) the hypothesis that there is no significant difference between specified populations, any observed difference being due to sampling or experimental error.

      I am of the conviction that not only the Tigrigna speaking peoples in both Eritrea and Ethiopia, the Amharas, the Somalis, those from Djibouti, Gurages, Aderes in Ethiopia and the Tigres, Sahos, Afars, Bilens and other ethnic groups of Eritrea, their genetic make-up is of a same and similar genetic stock. Except those that are described as “Nilotic” ethnic group, most of the ethnic groups within Eritrea, Ethiopia and some other countries in the Horn region are of a similar or almost the same genetic make-up or extraction.

      The genetic similarities does not stop between the Tigrigna speaking people on both sides of the Mereb river, but it goes further and encompasses larger areas. The fact that these people share similar or the same genes doesn’t mean they are the same people, be it politically, socially and even culturally because of the varying paths and trajectories of their experiences.

      Therefore, your null hypothesis is rejected.

      • Mez

        Dear Geteb,

        Then, based on your own statement*, the Adulisian and Axumite people–and by extention civilizations–are one and the same.

        What I inherited is yours, what you have is mine.

        Let us stop this madness aside and do something which would merit us and our enkelkids.

        Thanks

        * PS: Don’t run away from quantitative analysis, please rather embrace it.

  • Haile S.

    Hi Gheteb,
    Good engaging you again. Your propensity to raise controversial subjects of our region is interesting. Let me start with a question. Are the italicized phrases and paragraphs and/or those in parentheses direct quote from the references you cited or your own words? If direct quotes, then I couldn’t find Sumuafa Ashawa in Munoe-Hay’s book. I think your went too quick to brass tacks before assembling enough reference and material to emit your hypothesis that Abraha could have been an “Adulician”. According to Sir EA Wallis Budge(1), Kaleb appointed Abraha governor of Yaman and Aryat governor of Himyar. In the end their disagreement resulted into a duel resulting in Abreha’s facial wound (al-Ashram, the scarred). According to De Coussins (2), Kaleb appointed Aryat as his viceroy in Yemen and at one point ordered the same Aryat to kill 1/3 of the male Jewish in the country and send 1/3 of the women to Abyssinia. Aryat followed strictly his order and enriched himself with the property of the slain without sharing with his soldiers. Some of the soldiers revolted and appointed one of their officers, Abreha, as their leader. This revolt ended up with a challenge and a duel resulting in Abreha’s facial would and Aryat’s death and in the end ascension to power of Abreha al-Ashram. There could be other versions of the story as well, but all versions contain the primary leader of the expedition to Yemen to be Kaleb and the others his subordinates. I don’t think you presented convincing evidences to label Abreha as Adulician other than the single paragraph from Hatke’s book. Reading your post, your desire to liberate Abraha from Axum, Abyssinia and Kaleb gives the impression that the Eritrean liberation for independence started by Abraha al-Ashram. You seem to be crowning Abreha the Adulician a revolting liberator of a land from Abyssinians. The history of Abyssinia is a bloody history of revolt of administrators, viceroys or kings against the prevailing powerful king or the king of kings and the revolt of Abreha was not that much different except that he was a sea away out of reach. Do we need to go that far in search of Eritrean identity?
    1 – EA Wallis Budge. 1928. A History of Ethiopia: Nubia and Abyssinia.
    2 – Albert De Cosson. 1877. The cradle of the blue Nile.

    • ‘Gheteb

      Hi Haile S.,

      (A) If you are trying to find out the claim about Sumuafa Ashawa, here is what you may need to concentrate on:

      (1) Sumuafa’ Ashawa’, Greek (Esimiphaeus), was a viceroy appointed by Kaleb to rule Himyar
      (2) He was deposed by Abreha the Adulisian.

      If you are interested to know and are asking for references for now check the following until I get back to you with source from Munro-Hay.

      [[Dictionary Of African Christian Biography]]

      http://www.dacb.org/stories/ethiopia/_abraha.html

      (B) Kaleb vis-à-vis Abreha

      Sure, as you have presented here, there are many narration and versions to the story of Abreha, Kaleb and the Axumite kingdom and the military expedition to Yemen. You are saying that I have not presented a convincing case that Abreha was an Adulisian. However, there is nothing that convincingly show that Abreha was an Axumite or that he was a relative of Kaleb, for that matter. ” Procopius recorded that he was once the slave of a Roman merchant at Adulis”.

      What makes my claim that Abreha was an Adulisian is his reactions to King Kaleb.

      (I) First, he refused to pay tribute.
      (ii) Second,he declared himself independent.
      (iii) Third, he styled himself as the King of Saba, and Dhu-Raydan and Hadhramaut and Yamanat.

      Had Abreha been ‘related to Kaleb’ as “Tabari says that he was related to the Aksumite royal family”, Abreha wouldn’t have gone this far to distance himself from his own kins and relatives.

      The fact is that I am asserting that Abreha was an Adulisian and your counter argument has to be that he was NOT an Adulisian but an Axumite and show me the evidence that persuasively refutes my claim.

      Finally, you ask: ” Do we need to go that far in search of Eritrean identity?”.

      NO! I am not writing these articles in search of Eritrean identity. What these articles aim at are the sifting and cleaning process of the Eritrean historiography from the remnant dross, dregs and dirt that is left the apocryphal Abyssinian narratives.

      You can rest assured that the Eritrean identity is firmly secured while its history is rinsed and disinfected from all the Abyssinian contaminants.

      • Haile S.

        Hi Gheteb,
        Thank you for the link. It is an interesting summary. Imagine Abreha the non-axumite Adulician calling his son Yaksum (የኣክሱም hide this from Abi ኣቢ ኣይስማ) :). Talking of Abreha distancing himself from his kin; the Abyssinian nobility and royalty were well know to be merciless to their kins when it comes to power grabbing. On cleansing and decontaminating Eritrean histeriography from Abyssinians, the risk is we may end up bleaching-out ourselves partially.

  • Saba

    Selam ‘Gheteb,Are you saying that the Tigrigna people of Tigray (Auxumites?) & the Tigrigna people of Eritrea(Adulisians?) have different origins? One from the Auxumites and the other from Adulisians?
    Anyway all of them are under my kingdom, the implacable queen:)

    • Robel Cali

      Hi Saba

      There is no “Tigrinya people of Tigray”. They are called Tigrayans, after their region of Tigray. Tigrinya people of Eritrea are called Tigrinya after their language and their region is called Kebessa. They are two different ethnic groups. Prior to the Eritrean revolution, Tigrinya people referred themselves by their region of Kebessa as their ethnic classification. They never referred to themselves as Tigray.

      • Saleh Johar

        Hi Robel,
        The people of “Kebessa” were referred to as “deqi kebessa” when region was involved, but not as Tigrinya. They referred to themselves (and many still do) as Habesha. I know because I am one.

        • Robel Cali

          Hi Saleh

          Habesha is a wider cultural identity thing similar to Arab or Latino. As history has shown, anyone in our region can be a Habesha. When speaking specifically about ethnic groups, the Kebessa or Tigrinya people are aware of their identity as being separate from Tigrayans and this is not a new thing.

          And you may identify as Habesha but you’re ethnic identity is Jeberti, or so i assume. You can be a Jeberti Habesha. That is fine.

          • Saleh Johar

            Hi Robel,

            I am fine with people adopting a name for themselves, provided it is not imposed. The Habesha of the Highlands can adopt Tigrinya is that suits them, but do not try to convince me they were called that all along. They were not. That is my only argument.

            Thank you for not imposing the Tigrinya identity on me 🙂 I was never a Tigrinya, never will be. But I a Tigrinya speaker and will always be.

          • Robel Cali

            Hi Saleh

            Well your argument doesn’t hold water because the concept of ethnic identity is relatively new. So you’d be hard pressed to find an ethinic group that can say they’ve had the same ethnic identity name as they do today because the concept of ethnic identity is new, There are many layers of identity. Prior to Europeans inventing ethnic identity, most farming communities had village identity and most nomadic people had clan (extended family) identities.

          • Saleh Johar

            Hi Robel,
            The gist of my argument was that the term Tigrinya is new. It didn’t reflect any legitimate decision but was imposed. Therefore, you just supported my argument without meaning to. I suggest you say: “you are right Saleh Hawey” and end it there 🙂

            Don’t assume I believe in ethnicity as defined by the PFDJ. I never mentioned the term “ethnic” because I have a different view on it. And layers of identity, my mouth bled repeating that for years and I am glad you believe in that. It was frustrating to preach that for years and find only a few who have the same view. So, that was insignificant as far as I am concerned.

            But thank you for the chat.

          • Robel Cali

            Hi Saleh

            We agree then.

            Tigrinya as an ethnic identity name is new (revolutionary era). Before that it was Kebessa.

            But the Nara, Tigre, Saho, Beja (Hiadareb), Bilen and Rashaida have all had a new ethnic identity name, too.

            Was there really a Tigre ethnic group prior to the revolution? I’d say no. Was there a Nara prior to the revolution? Sorta. They were called Baria but they got a name change to harmonize with the policy of using the language you speak as an ethnic identity. Was there a Saho ethnic group? Depends on which clans you speak because the Asawortas would not agree.

            My last point is identities don’t stay stagnant. This is why I have a big issues with many of your writers who whine that their cultures and languages are being threatened with extinction. It’s a farce. The language they speak today is almost different from the language their ancestors spoke a few centuries ago. Ditto for their cultures. Culture, Identity and language is like a river; it’s constantly changing and evolving and never staying stagnant.

            Enjoy your weekend.

          • Saleh Johar

            Hi Robel,
            All the classification (by language) that you explained are Proclamations by an illegitimate regime. I do not accept them and you shouldn’t ask me to debate based on something I do not recognize.

            But in passing, just remember it is not based on language–if it was, the Rashaida would not be called Rashaida. Hint? The language they speak is not called Rashaida… It all smells of social engineering and usurping the will of the people. That is all. And I am not stuck in conservative argument, I am the kind that focuses on legitimacy and justice—and my arguments are all based on anti-PFDJ totalitarian proclamations, just like Haile Selassie ad Derg did.

            I think this topic is exhausted for me, allow me to disembark here.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Selam Robel,

            I thought you are a serious person but you don’t look at all. You have said “ethnic identity is new”. Really new! What does it mean ethnic? What is the genesis of Ethnic? What are the characterstics that define ethnicity? It will be difficult for you to read the composites of Eritrean society if you don’t know what ethnic means or what social scientists chose to call them “social groups.”

          • Robel Cali

            Hi Amanuel

            Please research ethnic identity and its origins. You’ll be surprised to learn it’s not that old.

            Kebessa is an identity. Is it any different than Tigrayans naming themselves after Tigray? Tigray is the name of an area too.

            I can provide data from 1910 showing an anthropologist classifying Tigrinya people as “Kebessa” after speaking with them. The same anthropologist also classifies Tigre people into a number of clans; with the Hababs being the most dominant in number and influence.

            Fun fact: The Hababs were Tigrinya people who migrated to the lowlands in the 16th century A.D. from Akele Guzay. So the largest Tigre clan is really of Tigrinya in origin. Remember that the next time you want to talk about Tigrinya landgrabbing nonsense. And if you’re wondering what does Habab mean well wonder no more. The Tigre clan name of Habab comes form the Tigrinya word Habte or as in their original name of Habte-Yesus (Wealth of Jesus). There are many other Tigre clans who originated in the highlands who migrated to the lowlands and assimilated. You can’t blame PFDJ for this natural phenomenon.

          • Brhan

            Hi Robel,
            I think in the above comment you are contradicting yourself. If there is natural phenomenon as you say then there is non-natural phenomenon. The people who were forced to move from the lowlands in the 60s to the Sudan could not return to Eritrea due to PFDJ policy. A lot of literature is there that shows how systematically the PFDJ avoided the issue of return of those refugees to Eritrea. If you read this literature which is credible and produced by Eritreans and the international community then you will ask yourself whether this landgrabbing is natural or or man made/ PFDJ made.
            Thanks

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Selam Robel,

            Ethnicity is not of an Eritrean phenomenon. It is a world human race phenomenon. Second, before we go to our Eritrean specificity, I asked you the genesis of ethnicity as human race phenomenon. So please, if you are serious, answer my previous questions, then we will talk about the historical migration and evolution of Eritrean ethnics, and how they are assimilated or vanished, or grow depending the circumstances that dictate them from time to time.

          • blink

            Dear saleh
            While your rejection as Tigrinya is accepted ,have you considered any name for the Tigrinya speaking people apart from your jeberti or Tigrait as you wish for any of them? You have been saying there is no Tigrinya as ethnic,so do we have any ethnic in Eritrea ? or you want to go across religious groups that fits your narrative about your beloved people in Eritrea? Your argument goes just opposite to your brothers THE Jeberti . I tried to see your long held believe about habesha, but it doesn’t make any sense apart from your love to their clothes, foods and I forget your admiration of meles .

      • Saba

        Hi Robel Cali,
        I said “the Tigrigna people of Tigray and the Tigrigna people of Eritrea” in order to be specific.
        But the “Tigrigna people of Eritrea” do not call themselves “Tigrinya”, instead they call themselves as deki Akeleguzay, deki Hamassien(Hammasienay, gual Hammasien), deki Seraye(Serewetot, gual Seraye). Have you ever heard of the expression “Gual Seratkin ke”? If you hear that you should run:) Because i did not understand what it meant.
        Based in your logic, the people of Seraye, Hammasien and Akeleguzay should be different ethnic groups. Or not?

        • Robel Cali

          Hi Saba

          All three regions you named have a collective identity of Tigrinya or Kebessa. What you are doing is delving into subgroup/regional identities which is equivalent to sub-clans in clan societies.

          It’s important to note those three regions were the nucleus of the Kingdom/Republic of Medri Bahri. So they had political, linguistic and historical affinity. They did not share this bond with Tigray. On the contrary, Tigray for much of the last 600 years was their mortal enemy.

          • Saba

            Hi Robel Cali,
            I was trying to show you that using your reasoning, you can divided the Tigrigna people of Eritrea into 3 subgroups or identities. The Tigrigna people of Eritrea & Tigray are similar culturally, linguistically. They differ politically and that is why they belong to 2 different countries. I think it is better to describe them accurately.

    • ‘Gheteb

      Selam Saba,

      The Tigrigna speakers of Eritrea and those from Tigray did NOT ‘originate’ or come from the soi-disant, inappropriately named, Agazians. There is NO historical record of those periods that attests the existence of Agazians as an ethnic group or as a generic name of those who lived in Aksum or Adulis or somewhere in that region. None of the inscriptions of those period referred to them as Agazians. If there is any, I have thrown down the gauntlet and I am asking those who disagree with me to bring them here. Is that fair enough?

      In my opinion and that of some authors of the region, the term Agazian referred to a contingent of a mercenary group that joined Abreha the Adulian in his Yemen campaign. These were Agews from the Ethiopian highland and these group of soldiers were probably members of the current Amhara ethnic group.

      No, I am not saying Tigrigna speakers of Eritrea came from, or their origin, is from Adulis or that those from Tigray are from Axum. Whatever the origin of these people may have been, I am contending that the Abyssinian civilization can claim Axum as its center of civilization while Adulis is the epicenter of what I have dubbed as “The Erythraen civilization”.

      Terms such as “Abyssinia”, “Ethiopia”, “Habesha” and “Agazian” have been appropriated or misappropriated by many Ethiopians or Eritreans to refer to themselves so as to enhance their images or history. Otherwise, in their strictest sense, the way these terms have been bandied around and used, to put mildly, is unfounded, uncorroborated and utterly fallacious.

      You say that ” all of them are under my kingdom, the implacable queen”. May be so. However, your assertion will still hold water had you, “Queen of Sheba” or “Bilqis” or “Bilkis”, had not given in to the demands of King Solomon. Even if one was to take the legends and the story of “Queen Saba” literally, how was that to make the “queen” implacable?

      • Saleh Johar

        Hi Gheteb,
        I know that you have a problem with Eritreans considering themselves Habesha–and you are challenging them to come with evidence to support that.

        My argument is that people adopt names, or are given names deep in history. And once they accept the identification, and it is an accepted fact by those near and far, trying to erase it from the common memory, is futile. Some people might be tempted to attempt to change or erase it retroactively, for many reasons, be it psychological or political. But one cannot present mythology and legends as evidence, to debunk similar mythology and legends.

        My evidence is that personal: I am Habesha with a Habesha feeling and affiliation, just like my ancestors felt they were Habesha. As far as recorded history is concerned, my Muslim heritage informs me that the prophet identified the region where I originate from, and that it lies in the Habesha domain, be its centered in Axum, Adulis, or Seraye.

        Until you started to question the Habesha identity, I thought I knew that your family also identified itself as Habesha, I never heard anyone of them referring to themselves as the re-invented Adulucians.

        One more thing: I know many people who are affiliate to me–racial and blood relations–claiming to have descended from Below, Agaw, as other Christian friends form the Highlands do. But once they settled in an area, they adopted the Habesha customs and norms. And as anything in history, they become (and are) Habesha.

        As you know, identity is fluid, and that is why a black African can consider himself Swedish, Canadian, American, or German–even British. Imagine what their children a few generations later will think of themselves! I have also seen Arabs with Belushi, Persian, Indian, and African ancestry who have adopted the Arab, Persian, and other identities.

        Coming to your Adulucian identity, I have seen people from Western India, who claim to have descended from Habesha. They came to India under the leadership of a rebellious ex-slave who rose to be a king (from Dahlak) and established a dynasty in a Western Indian region. Though the people have distinct black features, they do not consider themselves anything but Indians though they say they are descendants of Habesha.

        In short, again, identity is fluid, once it runs its course, it become a different thing. Trying to separate the water and milk that was mixed centuries earlier, is impractical and serves nothing but political goals–remember the Pushkin saga, by governments who do not promote their own literary persons, but saw of adopting a Russian poet who might have descended from our region centuries ago? Is Pushkin Ethiopia, Eritrean, or Turkish? None of that. To me, he is Russian.

        What is the difference between the Pushkin claim, your claim, and the Kbre Negest mythology about King Solomon impregnating Belqis, the queen of Sheba, who gave birth to Minelik?

        Personally, I do not find the “Erytherean Civilization” which is the Greek name for the Red Sea, a convincing argument. Also, remember the Red Sea was known as “Bahr AlQelzem” and if it had a distinct civilization, it could be claimed by any of the Red Sea littoral countries: Egypt, Sudan, Eritrea, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Djibouti, or Somalia.

        Over the last decade ad half, Eritreans have become ultra-nationalists (sometimes I feel, fascistic) and wanted to disassociate themselves from historical Axum based on EPLF-TPLF feud. That in itself is a reactionary thought bogged down on historical inter-Habesha enmity.

        I am a Habesha, but not a proud one.

        • Amanuel Hidrat

          Selam Abu Salah,

          Very impressive argument. If you are Habesha you must be proud on your identity no matter how distant it’s origin is. The four composite that built your current identity are (a) habesha (b) Jeberti (c) Muslim (d) Eritrean. These are the inherent charactetstics that define Saleh and his identity. As you put it aptly the hate for habesha is “based on EPLF-TPLF feud” to erase any historical link with Ethiopians. An absurd argument that defy truth, logic, and common sense. I have no doubt this hypocrite is from the habesha origin as you hinted in your comment. But, but, he is performing his assignment to be recognized by his hero – the despot. I love your argument full of facts and common sense.

          Regards,

          • MS

            Ato Tegadalay Emma, and Johar the greatistas
            Wait a minute, though. Now, you guys are goping for Habesha. That’s fine. I know Habesha implies the Tigrignas and Amara people, and tegaay Mahmoud says Mebrook Aliekum. Now, the Tigray Tigrigna call themselves Tigrawot, and the Amara people call themselves Amara. I believe Eritrean Tigrigna speaking people also adopted the name “Tigrigna”. That does not change the cultural substances or connotation of what that name represents- all its cultural identity expressions, food, music, myth, history, music, etc. Are you arguing that the name Tigrigna is imposed on the Eritrean Tigrigna? What’s your proof? For instance, the name Tigre was not applied to all the tribes which use Tigrayet until recently. But through social changes (among them revolution) if that name becomes widely used as an identifier, why should one argue against that because some hundred years ago those tribes did not have a common identifier?
            THE POINT: Habesha is shared by both Tigrignas and Amara. If an Eritrean Tigrigna speaking community or a person wants to reject Tigrigna as a group identifier, then there is a choice. It’s called Tigrawaay. The case of Jeber is different because they have, through their history, identified themselves as Jeber, wherever they may reside.

          • Saleh Johar

            Ahlan Mahmouday,

            Ouch!
            Let me go for the easy one: “Are you arguing that the name Tigrigna is imposed on the Eritrean Tigrigna? What’s your proof? ”

            I probably wrote and said this a million times, make it a billion 🙂 I have never heard in the past or the present, “megbi Tigrinya, but megbi Habesha, never kdan Tigrinya, but kdan Habesha, never Koboro Tigrinya, but kebero Habesha, and a dozen other similar terms that you can easily remember.

            The fact that Tigrinya as an identifier was imposed through a proclamation, makes it unacceptable to me–remember the PFDJ have baptized me Tigrinya and I am tired of trying to make them understand, I speak Tigrinya but I do not call myself Tigrinya. I hope that take care of you easy question 🙂

            Now for the pricking one:
            “If an Eritrean Tigrigna speaking community or a person wants to reject Tigrigna as a group identifier, then there is a choice. It’s called Tigrawaay. ”

            Are you serious Mahmuday? I either have to accept the proclamation and accept Tigrinya as an identifier or I will be considered Tigraway, which means non-Eritrean, which means Kaffir if we use the Selefi description, which means my blood is Halal for anyone to shed, at least on the political sense? Hsebelu da’a …

          • MS

            Marhaba AbuSalah
            Let me break this down if possible.
            1. I believe social groups have the right to identify with the name and cultural domain they choose. So, let us put that to rest.
            2. Habesha versus Tigrigna
            2.1. Habesha includes Tigrigna speaking people (Eritreans and Ethiopians)and Amara. Yes or no?
            2.2. Tigrigna speaking people (Tigreans and Eritreans) are culturally different from Amara people (of course like in any close communities there will be some overlapping cultural similarities). Yes or no?
            2.3. If you agree Amara and Tigrignas (both Tigrean and Eritrean Tigrigna speaking people are two distinguishable social groups, that means they both have an identifier name. In the case of Anara, they are called Amara people; in the case of Tigray Tigrigna, they are called Tigrawot or Tigreans. Now, what do we call Eritrean Tigrigna speaking people? The Habesha is an umbrella for three communities (Amara, Tigray Tigrigna and Eritrean Tigrigna).
            3.1. What evidence do you have that Eritrean Tigrigna dfon’t want to be identified by the name Tigrigna (regardless of how that name evolved- its use go back to the Federal era and before it.
            3.2. As I said the case of Jeber is different because they have always identified themselves as Jeber. I grew up with Jeber kids and we called them Jebertay, I never called them Tigrigna.
            4. The last paragraph is not really needed. I will just skip it because I’m not interested in religious stuff, and by the way not all Tigrawot are Kafreen even by the standard of selefis. And I really was acting a bit sarcastic (Emma does not like the word).

          • Saleh Johar

            Mahmouday,

            I will come to you on the rest later on but I have to correct you on one point: you lost your sense of humor. I was trying to joke on the last sentence. If the selefi calls you kaffir, you can be any race or religion, anyone is allowed to kill you. Therefore, it’s political equivalent in our politics is to be called Tigraway, any one is allowed to politically assassinate you. You read too much into an innocent joke.

          • blink

            Dear Mr. Saleh
            Innocent joke !! Is it ? I wonder if it is and still wonder if it’s not.

          • Berhe Y

            Dear MS,

            Just a quick question?

            Did you have experience growing with Tigrinya speaking Eritreans (those identified as Tigrinya) before you joined the liberation?

            To answer your question “Now, what do we call Eritrean speaking Tigrinya?”

            I don’t think there is one word as in Tigraway but they are identified primarily based in the awarja they come from, which is Serewetay, Hamasenay and Akeleguzetay.

            Or wedi seraye, Hamasien or Akeleguzai.

            I only learned about calling myself Tigrinya is when I learned about the tishiate biherat when I left Eritrea.

            Berhe

          • Abi

            Hi Hawuna Berhe
            What you are referring is equivalent to Gondere, woloye, Gojame etc. They all call themselves Amharas because they all speak Amharic as a common language with varying accents. What do you want to be called other than Tigrinya? Imposed or not you need some common identifiers that can be used as an umbrella. I think this is what Vet Mahmud is trying to convey.
            Tigraway, Tigrawot, Tigrinya …All beautiful sounding names. Pick one and stick with it.

          • Amde

            Selam Abi,

            Well, identity based on shared language and customs is one thing. Identity based on geography is another. I understand Berhe as saying his preference is to see political units around geographic units preferably built on historically existing geo based identities.

            Like Abi can be the Senior Senator from the great state of Gonder. The great Abi filibuster of 2022 would be a legend, with even the opposition supporting your continued presence on the stage as the one liners leave them helplessly in stitches even as the great Senator’s arguments makes them grind their teeth. I would pay very good money to witness that Abiti.

            Amde

          • Abi

            Amdachin
            It is Ras Abi!!!
            ክቡር ራስ አቢ የጎንደር እንደራሴ!!!
            I can tell you are a smart gambler.

          • Berhe Y

            Dear Abi,

            Thank you Amde for stepping, I know you explain it a lot more better than I can.

            What I can add is, incase of Ethiopia, instead of a politician (as will be the always the case) who will play the Oromo card for example, we should expect the Oromo people would vote for one of their own and since they are the majority, they will dominate all the time. But if it’s divided among different provinces as was the case, then each province would chose for one that’s best represent it.

            In case of Eritrea, the consequence would be even worst because there is the ethnic and religious division.

            I know a lot of Eritreans do not support ethnic based politics for example when it comes to Ethiopia, but identifying people based on their ethnic language, in my opinion is exactly the current Ethiopian system. So I don’t know why they don’t see the parallel?

            Berhe

          • Selam Berhe Y.,

            Oromos could be the largest ethnic group in Ethiopia, but they are not the majority. If a democratic government comes to ethiopia in the future and a democratic and a proportional system of elections are implemented, no single ethnic party is going to rule alone. It is going to be a coalition government of different parties. It is possible that the bigger parties may play a central role, nevertheless they will need the support of the other parties to come to power and to be able to rule. Similarly, one may say that it is also possible that a group of smaller parties could come together and form a coalition government.

            On the other hand, in the case of eritrea, it might be different due to the domination of one ethnic group. If we remember what the Afar representative wrote in his last article, he stressed that he is for an Afar ethnic state, where non-Afars have no right to hold political positions. At the same time he insinuated that he was not opposed to a mixed federation of ethnic and regional nature, if that is possible. I hope I have read him right.

            This shows that ethnic federalism is not an anathema for ethiopia, if implemented in the right way, and as much as eritreans are concerned, it might help if they reach a compromise of some sort, and find their own way,

          • Berhe Y

            Dear Horizon,

            My comment was with regards to the ethnicity and the division of the country. A lot of other people have addressed the issue a lot better than I am but I think, it would have been better if the the teqlay Gizaat/ Kifle hager was in play. Instead of having one big Oromo or Amhara, you have smaller entities.

            We are talking about future democratic Eritrea post pfdj. I don’t see why the afar issue will not be addresses the same way.

            The best way to look at it is “no body gives and no body takes away”, everyone is equal.

            Berhe

          • MS

            Selam BerheY
            Thanks for the question. Yes, but they were also fluent in Tigrayet, so the lingua franca was Tigrayet but we did have also other languages in addition to Tigrigna and Tigaryet. I get the point you and Emma are making. The highland Tigrigna speaking used to identify with clans that occupied certain geographic locations such as villages and districts and through time grow into provinces such as Zager_>Karneshem_>Hamasien_>Medre-Bahri, etc. They are usually identified by “deqi” so and so. My argument is this: is it bad if people assume a collective name such as Tigrigna if it is not imposed upon them? I have never heard ort read from serious academic or political literature or figures that raise this issue. Again, I’m not speaking about Jeber. What do you say cool BerheY? Is it bad if we assume a unifying name? I’m fine with Tigre although it was not something that the people discussed and adopted, because it unifies different tribes. We did not have a collective name called Eritrea (another identity); it was imposed upon us by circumstances of history, and we accepted it. So, is there a protest of critical mass against using Tigrigna to identify Tigrigna speaking people? If not, why are we politicizing something that the people have adopted? Your input is appreciated.

          • Berhe Y

            Dear MS,

            Thanks for clarifying. To Abi point as well, I didn’t understand if adapting Tigrina was a question (as you put it) or like Robel was saying it is.

            You know in Addis Abeba, they call all of us who speak Tigrinya, be it from Tigray or Eritrea as Tigre.

            I don’t think people had problem with that, I certainly didn’t.

            Personally I do not agree and do not like that the pfdj renaming of the provinces. I think in my opinion, identifying them as Tigrinya was not really to identify a common name (but to erase the awaraja identity) which is what I think and really oppose the motive.

            I say that not because the awaraja has a lot of value to me personally but dividing the Tigrinya to three does a lot if good to the make up of the country and it’s future peaceful existence and equal sharing of power structure.

            Berhe

          • Abi

            Hi Berhe
            I miserably failed to understand your last paragraph.
            Could you please explain a little further?
            Yeqenyeley

          • Berhe Y

            Hi Abi,

            May be another time in more detail ….my political solution for Eritrea stems what I come to love and cherish, the Canadian system. So for example in Canada organized as such, French, and English Canada..then I don’t know how the federation could have worked.

            So the Canadian forefathers…the divide English Canada into 9 nine provinces which are someone equal (or a lot less) than the French province Quebec.

            So in Canada, if any party have any chance to win an election and form a majority government it needs to secure majority in both French (Quebec and Ontario) provinces. Because these two provinces amount to the total majority….but because of these two population which is someone equal to terms population and wealth and they are able to always compromise to reach a consensus that serve both population better.

            However if we had Quebec (25%) and the rest 9 English provinces (the rest) then, Quebec would not have much voice because it will be dominated b the rest. Off course Geography plays a major role but I think it generally works.

            In Eritrea if we have the Tigriana divided into the three provinces as was traditionally was, it will learn to compromise with the others because each 3 are no large then any other provinces. But if they are grouped together as is the case today, they have large number and cause lots of problems..majority minority etc..

            More or less similiar to the issue Ethiopia is experiencing with the federal system..instead of having Amara / Oromo divided into many smaller provinces they are put together as one and they will dominate the political game.

            Berhe

          • Abi

            Hawuna Berhe
            Again, I failed to understand your last paragraph. I don’t see the Amaras and Oromos dominate the politics of Ethiopia.
            May be you need to write your comments without a last paragraph.
            Anyway, what you are saying is breaking the Tigrewoch will make the playing field equal for all.

            At this point I refrain to comment further.

            I hope you understand my last paragraph.

          • saay7

            Abi.net:

            His Excellency Isaias Afwerki, President of the Republic of Eritrea (official name: Hagere Ertra) gave a long interview about the indispensable importance of democracy and political pluralism and inclusiveness…. when it comes to Ethiopia.*

            The Oromo journalists who were interviewing him did not ask, “ummm, if you believe that, why don’t you practice it in your own country?” They did ask him if he had a destructive role in empowering TPLF and disarming the OLF in the 1992 peace conference in Ethiopia. His reply was:

            1. Yeah, you have a point
            2. We have no regrets, we did everything right.

            Use only #2 pencil when answering this question.

            https://youtu.be/KsE6o26IYiY

            saay

            *Politics is the art of having zero self-awareness.

          • Abi

            Hi Saay
            His Excellency Isayas A Abraha , King of the Kingdom of Adulisian AKA Eritrea is still hoping one day he will bring back his people back to where they belong. Bringing them back to The Axumite Kingdom AKA Ethiopia is his mission. He is waiting for the right time.
            In the mean time he is sending messages to the leaders of his ORIGINAL country.

          • Berhe Y

            Dear Abi,

            I was referring to a true democratic Ethiopia as it’s currently divided, where anyone opposition have the same playing field.

            Amara will dominate the Amara region and Oromo on the Oromo region and they make up the majority. Where in the previous for example Derg, they were divided in smaller provinces which more or less where equal to others.

            Berhe

          • Abi

            Hi Hawuna Berhe
            I still failed to understand your last paragraph . You are saying The Amaras and The Oromos will dominate their particular regions as opposed to smaller provinces.
            At the same time you are arguing to divide the Tigrewoch into theee smaller provinces to make the playing field more equal.
            In other words, you want the Amaras be united to dominate their region while advocating the Tigrewoch of Eritrea to be divided into three pieces.
            Can you put your response just in one paragraph so that I read only the first paragraph without confusion?
            Thanks

          • iSem

            Hi BY:
            You are romantiizing the the Canadian system, it is the system that makes an official opposition party from one that only run candidates in only one province (Block Q), it is the same system that one party (PC) won the entire province in Alberta, as if millions of people did not vote for for the NDP and Liberals in Alberta, it is the same systems where 2 million people vote for a party and the party still has not opposition status and so no money from public (before Harper changed that). Justin promised to change that and now said, he will not
            And the Senate, the so called sober second thought chamber is corrupted, it is appointed and like the Superem court it is filled with idealogues and not the people’s choice. I am not saying supreme judges should not appointed

            While in USA, although the system is the same, the winner gets all, the electrol votes, is there to balance it. Once I did the math and the way the EV are assigned, the smaller states benefits, a little bit. The USA senate is elected, represnts states and it helps small states as Delaware and NY get two senators each, the bigger states win in the house
            So if one party gets the WH, the other party can get both houses, or each party can get two different house, now GPO has WH, House and Senate in two years it can change
            If you want to have the Canadian system in Eri, it will create what is called the tyranny of the majority, the simple majority where the winner get all will be disaster in our case
            The system should be designed in such a way that it id difficult not easy for the executive do, in Canada, if you have a majority, you can do whatever you want, in the USA, even memebers of your party can vote against you, it is not just blue and red, it is a spectrum of colours.
            The republic party is right now almost 3 parties, that is why they blocked the healthcare bill even with GOP controlling the 3 houses. Rule of thumb: the system must be so difficult for the excecutive (prime M or president) that compromise or what is called crossing the aisle is the solution of last resort

          • Berhe Y

            Dear iSem,

            I was not comparing Canadian and American system. I was using the Canadian as example how it can work in Eritrea.

            I say I prefer Canadian not because I lived in Canada but of similuar population setup. For example 2 lang (French / English – Tigrinya/ Arabic (I say Arabic because I think even Tigre do advocate for Arabic otherwise I would say Tigrayte) 2 majority pop (French / English – Tigrinya / Tigre) and two religion (Protestant / catholic – Christian / Muslims ) although religion plays less role today but it may have on the past.

            ” it is the system that makes an official opposition party from one that only run candidates in only one province (Block Q)”..

            I think you said above the exact reason why I like it. This scenario you gave can only give the ability to become an opposition but never the majority which is why I think it’s good. Then that party if it needs to come to power it needs to win / compromise with the others.

            In Eritrea if you put the Tigrinya as one, and with the number of seats they get (based on population) they may have the potential to make majority in their own then it will not work, because they will dominate.

            What you wrote about Alberta, senate, majority takes all etc is imperfection that is not fair but it doesn’t create disaster. Justin promised to reform (proportional representation), honestly I don’t think it’s really a big deal or a priority. The Canadian Supreme Court, I don’t think we can ask Better, don’t care about technicalities how they are nominated but you can’t ask for better outcome, in the fairness, equality decisions. Canada is always ahead, that almost any country in the world when it comes to social justice.

            US is simply a country of white Protestant Americans. Everyone else who is different be it black, Jew, Muslim , Latino, Chinese who ever come to power, he or she is assimilated to be just like the white person who is in power. Exceptions like Obama, or Somali congresswomen is just a sideshow with no power at all.

            Have you seen lately what the Republican Party are doing and changing, just to piss off because Obama passed the bill, like the EPA, his green initiatives (auto efficiency), removing toxic materials, Michel Obama healthy food alternative in school, etc.

            Berhe

          • iSem

            Hi BY:
            Of course you did not compare USA and Canadian systems, but I did the comparison to highlight the small different, although they are the same
            “US is simply a country of white Protestant…”, really? and Canada is not a country of white protestant/Catholic? That is why they fund the Catholic schools and not the Muslim, Jews Schools.We discussed this over a decade ago. That is ok because they were founded by the said whites and multi-cultural came later. But MC has become a modern segregation. Of course you should not be persecuted for practicing your culture and that is the way it is in USA, but the proverbial melting pot is better than the fake MC that is modern segregation.
            I also do not see the comparison of Eri and Canada, every other province is English except Quebec and the Canadian system does not reflect launguage but population. Even the English speaking provinces are little bit different culturally, but for us they may seem the same and not all of them joined the confederation at the same time. Now in Eri, origianlly the provinces were divided along languages, mostly anyway
            Seraye:TIgriniya
            Hamassien: Tigriniat
            Akel-Guzay: Tigriniya
            Barka: Tigrayit
            Semhar: Tigrayit
            Denkalia: Afar
            Gash: Nara and Kunam
            Senhit: Blen
            Semhar: Tigrayit

            Let assume that Tigrinya and Arabic are agreed upon languages s, now tell me how the Canadian system will help us
            If we have the same system then the majority will be impose its will, if we have propertional representaion , your vote is not wasted, this way the minority privounces will have their voice
            About court, I did say I did not criticize it, I said, the senate is like the court because the PM appoints based in idealogy. I am not saying we should elect supreme court judges, No way!

            And how is Obama a side show, he was not buddy, he was elected and he fully excercised his presidential powers like the white presidents like him. In Canada, the defense minster was elected fair and square with our system and he was appointed by PM and is excer his ministerial powers
            It is good that the founding of Canada and USA was monolithic: only by protestant whites and then slowly, making it inclusiveness, and so were the civilized Europeans countries, France was French, Germany only Germans and so on. The reason Africa is having this wars is because they were stitched together by Europeans without considering the tribes and cultures,take Angola, 100 families and 500 soldiers from Portugal sailed and stitched it togher and after independence they fought each other bitterly, now is better but one day it may erupt. So is every African countries

          • Berhe Y

            Hi iSem,

            I think we should get together for kitfo dinner after ester and have a long chat.

            I am glad you are thinking about it and I hope e move away from finding fault (as being African) and stop the agonizing what PFDJ is doing to us and look for solution based on time tested examples.

            I am no totally in tune with all the American politics these days, I listen to Bill Maher once a week and I am all up to date. Here his latest describing the Republican Party bs what it turned into:
            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P2QXMGYluzo

            The similarity of Canada to Eritrea is between French and English Canada, similar to Highland and lowlands Eritrea.

            Berhe

          • saay7

            Berhe:

            I think we should get together for kitfo dinner after ester and have a long chat.

            As the kids say, “is this a thing?” There are Eritreans, who didn’t grow up in Addis, eating ktfo when there is something else in the menu?

            saay

          • Berhe Y

            Hi Saay,

            I should have added (inside joke), I said that just to get iSem going. He doesn’t eat kitfo, may be he has since:), last time.

            Honestly though, when we go for habesha food (MS/Abi not Tigrinya food), it’s one of the item in the mix from the menu.

            Berhe

          • Abi

            Hawuna Berhe
            By bringing Sem and Kitfo on the same dining table you killed the ox twice.
            Serve him sushi for Easter Sunday with some Sudanese music and a cup of tea.

          • iSem

            Hi BY:
            I was laughing at Sal’s comment, But kitfo is better than the whole cow dangling from the pole and all the people coming and cutting pieces from it, rem Ohio:-)
            Sal: the Kitfo and the Gored Gored thing is a hit in the Eritrean rests.

          • blink

            Dear Berhe
            Interesting point of view, there was one guy who said to me the exact reasoning for Eritrea , I was shocked to find it here with you . These three zone or awurajas may be divided long time ago but as this time they seem to have passed the division, their youth seems to coil but can you ever imagine how they can be back to that.The marriage,revolution,sawa and all the school thing has narrowed the gab. Can you say more about it .

          • blink

            Dear Abi
            As you replied to the store worker “Eritrean” , I thought you willingly had to watch the forum.

          • Haile S.

            Hi Saleh and all,
            In addition to what you said further or immediately above let me add this. I think the naming ‘Habesha’ designating the inhabitants of Abyssinia dates to a very long time because it necessitated the collective identifying name of a country and its people. However the knowledge of, its use and its acceptance by the concerned people (Habesha) as a name identifying them depends on the period. I think, before the advent of Italians only those who had contact with foreigners, mainly merchants and the very few who had contacts as guides and hosts of foreigners (the Bahre-Negashs) and the higher-level clergy had knowledge of that terminology. BTW as recorded by Hiob Ludolf (1) and repeated and cited by many others, the elite Abyssinians (as Ludolf learned with his Abyssinian helper Gregiorios) did not like or accept to be called Habesha.
            For the ordinary people the name they applied to themselves was that of their Region, Woreda, ‘clan/ወለዶ’ or village when asked who they are. There was no need for the ordinary people to know the collective name of a country they didn’t even have an idea of its breadth even of its existence. The relationship or knowledge the ordinary man/woman had was with his/her local administration, the local wise-man or at best the merciless Ras who sends his ruthless soldiers to collect tax or Fesses. After the advent of foreign missionaries and Italy as a colonizer, there was need for a collective identification of people and the names that were not common to the ordinary people became common; Habesha started to be known and gradually got accepted to the Abyssinian as a name identifying them. the examples you mentioned (megbi habesh, kdan habesh) appeared to be of this recent period.
            Nowadays the prevailing controversial practice and understanding of the term Habesha is very recent, since Eritrean independence even, more since the Eritro-Ethiopian border war. You meet someone who looks like you at Dallas airport and he asks: are you Abesha? If you are a hardcore blind and confused nationalist, you will likely reply no I am Eritrean; apparently to solidly, affirm your Eritrean identity and dispel any confusion with an Ethiopian, thinking that his question was a ploy used by Ethiopians not to accept and pronounce the word Eritrean? If you are not a hardcore or not at all in that domain, just a proud Eritrean, you will likely respond yes, I am an Abesha from Eritrea. There could also be other ways of handling the question.
            1 – Hiob Ludolf A new History of Abyssinia… 1684

          • Saleh Johar

            Hi Haile,
            I read Ludolf’s book long time ago, I believe I have it somewhere, I have also seen others who basically wrote what yoy described. My problem is, if we go far enough, we might not recognize our ancestors. In a region that was plagued with wars, famine and other calamities, teh people were mobile. So, if we checked our DNA, it would be very colorful (and disappointing to some:-) Where do we stop Haile? If say, I went a two thousand years ago and reached at the graves of my Summarian, or Congolese ancestors, I would have gone through at least ten races to arrive there. Tracing my ancestry back, I know I will end somewhere withing the races that we know and recognize today–because tracing my ancestry to an Akkadian warrior, or an Assyrian soldier, or an Egyptian slave whose race is unknown, doesn’t have any significance to my feeling of an identity. Regardless of where I come from, my feeling and the collective memory of the people I know, is Habesha. I am not an anthropologist, or an archaeologist trying to explain a bone fragment I found. That specialized field doesn’t concern me because it will not change who I feel. As an individual who do not have the burden of proving my DNA, I am Habesha… but in history, my race was fluid as any other human being. If I beging going back, I will not stop at the origin of Habesha or Adulis or whatever other civilization, real or imagines, I might feel like going as far back as Adam and Eve, and tell you my race is…what was Adam and Eve’s race again? I already quoted the prophet Mohamed mentioning my people 1400 years ago, that does it for me.

            Thank you for the explanation, I learned a few things from it, and I have to thank you again for something I am not telling you know 🙂

          • Ismail AA

            Hayakum Allah SJ, MS and Aman,

            Your lovely exchanges on identity and its ramifications have come as extension of curious attempt of de-Aksumizing of the history of “Erythraen Civilization” which historians are yet to excavate because I have, as former history student, never read or heard of. Of course some zealots of the novel Eritrean nationalism that stretches to cultural and social jingoism may dismiss me as victim of former Ethiopian (read Habesha) colonialist scholarship.

            At the root of all this is that the dictatorship, as many of its counterparts elsewhere, does engage in such ventures because of insecurity and lack of legitimacy for their system of rule and its continuation. It is abundantly obvious that no dictator wants to be the last ruler of the usurped domain. He/she would strive to extend it through his children or family members.

            Getting back to the issues raised in your exchanges, I was pondering on a few questions that I thought to share with you. Since the center of the “Erythraen Civilization” is Adulis (Adulisian thus), are we to consider the Sahos and the Danakil who hail from that region and near were the first citizens of that civilization? The second questions is: Did the name Habesha or Abyssinia (in Western parlance) refer to geographical area or people or both combined? And, the third and important question: Are the Saho also Habesha or some other thing?
            Consider these questions as weekend pass time puzzle.
            Regards

          • MS

            Ahlan IsmailAA
            BTW, I have a question before I try to comment on your questions. Why are the Ismails I read are so sophisticated and way laser-sharp for my feeble average brain? Honestly, you guys have a common trait, I believe. Anyway, here is my comment. The reason I choose to comment rather than trying answering your questions are that:
            a/ I’m not qualified to jump in to the “expert” club, and I’m awfully bad in history.
            b/ Discussions on these subjects carries the risk of getting easily misread.
            Having said that:
            1. As of to the first question: yes, of course. Saho and Afar would be at the center of the Erythraen Civilization. Saho-Afar are contemporarily referred to as the Afro-Asia languagues of which the Cushitic languages is a subset. Guess what its old name was? Among other names, it used to be know by “Erythraen Languages”. See, there you have it. Erythraen Civilization with its Erythraen Languages, Saho-Afar, haha….(a bonus for Ghehteb).
            2. Second Question: I think from what I accumulated, there was never a definitively self-identified group of people called “Habesha” prior to the 6th-7th, or even up to the 12th century. But the people who lived in the region we now call Eritrea and Ethiopia were referred to by early explorers (Greeks and Arabs) as Habesh, Habeshat, Ahbash…which took the form of Abyssinians…etc. In the early stage, that is how they were described by the explorers and writers, and not how the people identified themselves that way, as Habesha or Ahbash. There is a debate as to what that word is. Some of the accounts describe it as a word describing a people who were known as gatherers of incenses; and that makes sense due to the Greek-Arab commerce relations with our region. As time went on and the chiefs/kings of our region were welcomed, recognized and described positively as Habesh/Ahbash…they probably welcomed the description and adopted it; and with that, slowly, the Abyssinia name takes its own life. Of course, to the dismay of General abi, the Sabaen myth and its influence in our region, along with the Solomonic ties and the 3000 year history is for the most part debunked as nothing but a Myth.
            3. This is the trickiest part of your query. If we are speaking historically, as that term was introduced and used, and probably for centuries, I would contend yes, they were probably part of the Ahbash peoples. Remember, Habesha as an ethno-cultural identifier is a recent phenomena. Ask your self: when you invoke the word Habesha, what comes to your mind? The Habesha dress with its Orthodox ornaments, the orthodox church and its traditions and ceremonies, Calendar…Do you see Ami Nuru and his Mosque, or his colorful attire? Do you see his distinct daily chores that revolve around his religion, which makes him, may be, closer to the Tigres, or Harares than to the “Habasha” as commercialized to the world. In my flight from Addis to Mosco, in the mid 90s, I was absorbed in reading the inflight magazine “Ethiopian”, and in it, the magazine tried to introduce Habesha Culture to the world, the beautiful lady dressed in typical “Habesha” dress adorned with crosses, the lifestyle, music, food, etc., was all about the Amara people.
            I have to say few things in this regard: People have the right to identify themselves the way they choose. This usually becomes critical when a group of people go through collective experience of injustices. At times of crisis we tend to magnify what separates us from the “other” group, and at time of peace where power and resources are shared equitably, or when there is a superimposed common threat to all the groups, we tend to emphasize commonalities. Another point is that, how we see ourselves might be different from how we are seen by the “other” groups. Group identity is not reducible to “kdan Habesha” and Megbi Habesha”. Ironically that is what connects both the major social groups that make up the “Habesha” super group, if there is such a super group anyway, because Tigrigna people and Amara people have distinct languages, dances, myths, oral histories, legends, and so on. Take out the orthodox church and the difference between Tigrigna and Amara people could not be that different from the relation between Tigrigna and Tigre people.
            At times of categorization (we versus them) we tend to overemphasize the differences that exist between groups. I would argue, that an Eritrea Tigrigna speaking person has much in common with Eritrean Tigrignas than with the super group called Habesha.
            I also underscore a fact: Whether it is in Ethiopia, Eritrea, Sudan, Somalia, our Jeber brothers and sisters have always identified themselves as Jeber/Jeberti. Just like the Nordic peoples share cultural similarities they do share cultural identities with their brethren Tigrigna speaking peoples. It’s up to them to specify their identity and not to the “.Others”.
            4. If Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) to resurrect today and see the region and how Habesha is applied he would have been confused, because the Habesha he described in the Qoran was quite different than the ethno-cultural Habesha that has developed quite recently. In the Qoranic sense (witness) the peoples mentioned as Habesha were different than present Habesha (culturally and geographically. You bet your ancestors were Ahbash as understood at that time.
            5. The politics of identity: I have repeatedly said that the current regime is not a good yardstick for measuring the state of relations between Eritrean social groups. I myself have changed a lot in this regard. When I was still fresh in my Wedi-Saleh state, in 1996, a friend of mine brought IA seminar of 1993 in which he mocked Jeber and someone who innocently asked his president about the status of Arabic Language. The answers of the president as I understood them in 1996 were not refined but were then somewhat OK to me. Today, they make me puke. That’s because my understanding of these issues has grown. I think the main goal for us should be in unifying ourselves to get the country of this regime and create a climate where diverse communities express themselves without the fear of getting stigmatized or worse, marginalized.
            I have no idea if I tried to comment or answer your questions, forgive me for the lengthy Hateta.
            I did a refresher reading on this on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abyssinian_people

          • Ismail AA

            Dear MS and Aman,

            I thank you both for very generous and enlightening input. Frankly my questions were meant to underscore my astonishment about the time we, in this forum, investing on discussing matters that should belong to academic fields such as trying to reconstruct ancient history of a region and rewriting it to fit, and massage passions and egos stimulated by political identity of nations.

            Such engagements in this forum make us appear as though we have the luxury of time while, on the other hand, we should be feeling hard pressed by shortage of time to pay attention to matters relevant to our unenviable conditions back home. Proposing discussions about ancient history in a forum can only be useful to divert attention from topical and burning issue because the most we can do is either writing few things from memory or common knowledge or make some interpretive and speculative opinions. Let alone ancient history, even discussing events from our very recent past should be avoided or minimized.

            Having written the above points, however, my casual comments and questions brought me lucrative dividends both of you. I must sincerely thank you because the inputs from both of your very useful. Mahmoud, you generously detailed comments were a classroom lesson, and Amanuel’s point succinctly expressed how colonial imperialism had left crises generating legacies.

            To end these few remarks, I would like to share with thought provoking point Mahmoud mentioned. Habesha in its broader cultural sense as understood by our people in Eritrea and Ethiopia seems to carry the notion of the Orthodox Christian religion and way of life and its aspects. I raise this because other people like Sahos who live among their Christian compatriots do not consider themselves as Habesha. In fact, they reserve that term for their Christian compatriots. From my stay in the western lowlands also showed me that the Tigrayit speakers refer to their Christian compatriots as Habesh (singular hibishtay or hibishtayit). I am just curios whether both e of you too have noted such things.

            Regards

          • MS

            Ahlan IsmailAA
            I was hoping Emma would jump in t answer your question. And I will have to remind everybody, that I don’t intend to injure anyone’s feeling when I use terms such as Christian, Muslim, Orthodox, Jeber…I hope we all understand this is an open discussion strictly for exchanging knowledge and information. I love and respect all cultural expressions. Yes, generally that is how they would call them; Hibsh (plural) and Hibeshtay (singular). So, for my father, he would differentiate an Amharic-speaking person from a Tigrigna speaking, but he would have hard time separating Tigray and Eritrean Tigrigna dialects. Therefore, he would probably called them Hibsh (for the people he didn’t know by family and names). Hibesh would also be used interchangeably with Christian Tigrigna, or “kstan” or “Ksteinaay, singular). Tigrigna-speaking Muslims would be called by their proper names, Jeber (plural), jebertay (male) and Jebertayt (female; or Saho, Sahotay, Sahotayt/ Asawrta (Asawrtay, Asawrtayt)…Therefore, as you can see, Hebsh, or Habesha was associated with Tewahdo Christianity, or the Orthodox Church. For instance, I never heard the Blin Christians called Hibsh, because, I would assume, most of them followed the Catholic Church and both communities (Tigre and Blin) were more integrated into each other for long time. We also have our proud MensaE community (with its majority Christian followers), and one could not think of Tigrayet without MensaE, and they are proud and respected members of the social group. We don’t call them Hibsh because they are Christians. That’s why we should be careful, and that this area needs more research before making conclusions.
            You know the Sudanese call everyone from the South” Habeshy”, be it Eritrean or Ethiopian. In that sense, Habesha or Hibsh takes a different meaning, that of national origin or racial profile. When Muslim literature refer to “Bilal alHabeshi” did they mean the present meaning of the word Habehsa as perpetuated by current generation? Of course not. ISem has commented a couple days ago that identity is fluid, and that is true. So, when Johar says he wants to be known as Habeshi, he has a point and should be respected. That’s how he knew of himself and that’s how he wants us to identify him. Now, from my perspective, he is a complex man. As you might have known, Saleh Johar is more Tigretay than I’m. He knows the language, history, and customs more than I do. Although he comes from a Tigrigna speaking parents, my dad would just call him Saleh before calling him Jebertay. I know, you do know GindaE, Massawa, Hirgigo, and its environs. People know where each of them are from but never bother about categorizing each other. In most cases Tigrayet would be the Lingua Franca and it has been done so peacefully. They would mention family trees when something happens, for legal issues, or when there is a problem in neighboring communities, which is normal. As I explained in my recent comment, we tend to emphasize differences when there is a problem. I also believe that we will know only when we have created a relatively open space for societies to discuss their priorities. I personally am a product of a different circumstance because I did not have the opportunity to grow up within a normal community setting, therefore, the fact that I will be biased towards amplifying the need for unity will perhaps be there. But that does not mean I can’t read injustices or “social grievances” as dear Emma puts it. We just need a good government. That’s all. After that, everything could be sorted out peacefully. This is out of respect to you aware might be totally wrong. I do love and appreciate the cultural products of both communities, Muslim and Christian.
            Regards.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Ahlen Mahmuday,

            These days we are seeing eye to eye. The long run debates on our history and on the forward looking of our political discourse for soft landing was contentious, for years worthy to remember. I am 😁 glad, old comrades “of cause” are coming closer and closer. Here is a deal: as soon as we close the gap, I will buy my air ticket for Seattle, to celebrate, once more of becoming comrades for a cause “to liberate our people” from the grip of the monster. Great day Mahmuday.

            Regards

          • Haile S.

            Hi MS,
            Great detailed analysis! It seems the word Habesha has a centripital movement in space and time. The closer you come to the Abyssinian center, the narrower its application to the Kistan, and curiously paralleling the application of the word Ethiopia in time and space.

          • Ismail AA

            Dear Mahmoud and Aman,

            What lovely exchanges. Thank you both. I have benefitted from your generous in puts, especially Mahmoud who is very meticulous and succeeds to dig in as much details as possible to describe, explain and layout a topic or a question. I do know why his comments develop into standard article size, which was actually the reason why I first established contact with him in this forum. I was so attracted by his long comments and had asked him why he did not post them as front page articles if he had that much time. He was a bit annoyed and gave me a response why I did not write articles myself instead of asking him. When he knew a bit about me he was so quick and found an item I had posted and came back with a quote from it coupled with a few nice words.

            I like the comment of Aman that the long debates came around to let you two to see eye to eye. That is beautiful because I am convinced we, the veteran generation, have been left with no other option but close ranks and create a unified front that the youth generation could emulate and learn from. We should declare that our experience that some times pit us against one another has been closed and relegated to the terrain historians had to plough and harvest in the interest of posterity.

            Perhaps you know by now why I am writing these lines. It is another way of telling Aman not to leave me behind when he will buy a ticket to Seattle to join you and Mahmoud as an old comrade-in-the-struggle for our people’s cause. Thank you both for the joyfully educating in puts in the past two to three days.

            Regards

          • Abi

            Selam Gashe
            Please post a picture of the ” አዛውንቶች ክበብ”::
            Please make sure to carry your AARP membership card with you at all times for applicable discounts from coffee to dentures and more.

          • Ismail AA

            Selam yenie tanashu gashe,
            kbebu tezegtewal. sewoshu ye abalnet bru mekfel kebedashew.
            Meftehie kaleh negeren.
            Ke selamta besm azawnteshu hulu.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Merhaba Ismailo,

            I will be 😄 delighted to include and buy an air ticket to my favorite awatistas and old comrade in arm. What a great vacation will it be.

            Regards

          • saay7

            Hala MaHmuday:

            I have yet to meet a Christian Tigrinya-speaker who minds being called Tigrinya–except iSem. Even YG who complained about everything never complained about that 😂

            But seriously, have u watched the movie Life of Brian? In the movie a Judea Liberarion Front (or, its splinter group, People’s Feomt for Liberation of Judea) is cataloging the list of horrible things the Romans did and one says “nobody is to blame for that not even the Romans.” Similarly, one can’t blame the PFDJ or even the EPLF for the classification of Eritreans along language groups. That honor belongs to the ELF.

            I am sure Ismail can dig and find his poletikawi astemhro leaflets from ELF and substantiate this but to my knowledge the ELF has been since probably it’s first congress (1971) and most assuredly since its second (1975), been classifying the people by the languages they speak. (SGJ forgot this because he is allergic to political indoctrination classes and skipped all of them.) In fact there is a French documentary from 1977-78 (on YouTube) which describes Eritreans as Tigrinya, Tigre, Saho, Afar, Blin, Beja, Baria, Baza and Ellit. (It sounds awesome in French which is why everyone should speak with a French accent.)

            So if there is any blame to go around (and there isn’t), the ELF would have to line up first. I mean if you are going to write a political programm that includes the social grouping and history of the people, you got to do that and u gotta do it in a way that doesn’t antagonize people by making them feel left out. Safest way: focus on language they speak.

            The only thing that has changed since then is that the suffix of “speaker” (as in “Tigrinya-speaker”) got dropped. I wish it had been left alone (which is why I still do it even for Ethiopians: saying “Amhara” sounds vaguely bigoted; say “Amharic-speaker” and u sound factual) because it would have made the point that the only difference these people have is the language they speak now. Which is not necessarily the language they spoke several generations ago.

            saay

          • Ismail AA

            Hayak Allah saay,
            Let me first concur with you that there is actually nothing wrong with our social groups adopting an identifying name of there choice. I think MS also mentioned this point. But the matter acquires significance when the issue assumes part of ideological bedrock upon which rulers design govenance politics like we have in Eritrea presently.
            It is also true that the ELF handled the issue at the its first congress of 1971. That agenda, to my knowledge (I became full timer much later) was discussed in the context of the question of nationalities. Most of us know that this matter was fashionable during those times because the national liberation movements considered themselves part of the socialist camp and its guiding ideology. They thought that helped them to acquire legitimacy of sorts and more importantly attract solidarity that was hoped to translate to material help.
            The debate was whether the social components of Eritrea had evolved to assume the status of nationalities. The criteria was appraised in its classical sense within the context of Maxist-Leninist social and economic postulates. The debate zeroed on the fact that the Eritrean groups did not develope to the status of nationalities and its defining requisites
            Thus, the best reference found was to be define them as linguistic groups (majmuáat luqawiya). And, five years later at the second congress of 1975, which I had the honor to attend, the resolution of the 1971 was not changed. Hence, the orientation groups you had referred to had operated within that parameters.
            As I mentioned earlier, the issue became important when the linguistic groups were classified in terms of nationalities. Since there was no other element to rationalize the existence of nationalities, the only reference remained was the linguistic one. Most of the groups had already been referred to by their languages save our compatriots in the highlands, excluding the Jeberti. Our people there had never been identified by the language they spoke. But as the question of the linguistic groups became more fashionable as in Ethiopia the easier way was to adopt the term Tigrinya to encompass both the language and the people. Mind you, the term Tigrinya distinguished them from Tigrawot south of the River Mereb. Thus, Tigrinya fitted their place within the nation-state – Eritrea.
            I would end this quick remarks wondering what our brother Huriu Tedla Bairo had written in his book which I had not read yet. Hurui is one of the best to ask about the experience of the ELF on the issue because he was one of the key actors in both congresses of the ELF along with personalities the late Azien Yassin, the late Dr. Fetzum G/Sellasie and many others.
            Regards

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Selam Ismailo,

            Thank you for your input on the issue of our social groups. But let me ask you a question. Wouldn’t it be define our social groups with thec the concept of “nations and nationalities” where there is clear distinction between nations and nationalities? These terminologies did not exist in a vacuum, rather they exist to determine the stages of development of social groups. What is your take to my question? Saay expressed his opinion that our social groups only differ in languages. I don’t think so? What about the culture that define each social group?

            Regards

          • Ismail AA

            Dear Aman,

            Let me first say that I would exhibit myself as a reckless and foolhardy person if I pretend to be more knowledgeable on this subject than you, the two Salehs and many of the magnificent members of this forum. I know many of us had, one way or the other, read and heard a lot about nations, nationalities or races and more. The topic has been studied extensively for political and ideological reasons, and opinions had varied in accordance with objectives and political and ideological persuasions. Thus, the notions and concepts about them had not been handled in vacuum as you have written.

            Moreover, as you put it, there are many factors and elements that define both terms and these have been, and shall continue to be, development oriented. But language is and was one of the prominent elements that define the concepts since other things such race could vary and overlap. That is why scholars frequently refer to nationalities as linguistic communities, which was the source of the ELF’s take on the matter.

            Having jotted those few points, thus, a nationality could be a community of people sharing the same language, racial origin, faith, traditions and cultural traits. They could inhabit defined geographical area or members of a particular nationality could spread among other nationalities, and could be citizens of different nation-states by virtue of historical developments such as migrations, occupation or incorporations. Empire building and colonial imperial expansion could taken as cases.

            The point that makes a nationality different from a nation is the degree of social and economic transformations and developments within contiguous and distinguishable territorial domains rationalized by political awareness that qualify the people to aspire an independent nationhood. This status should be built on the elements that define nationality basically. Other aesthetic matters such as literary and cultural advancements reinforce the claim to separateness in a nationhood.

            As a final point I would like to make reference to the example of the current Ethiopia. The inhabitants of the country are classified at the present as nations and nationalities. This was based on the long and arduous debates that took place before the fall of the imperial regime in 1974. This was spearheaded by the student movement since early 60s and brought to its advanced level by people like Walelgn Mokonnen. In fact, he had penned a bold and historic document which still valid analyzing why Ethiopia was not one nation, and went down to define the population nations and nationalities.
            Regards

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Merhaba Ismailo,

            The answer I expected from you is pointed out in your “final point” of your comment. That is the view I held in defining our cultural groups what I always prefer to call them as “social groups.” The concept of “nations and nationalities” is not only adapted by Ethiopia, but by many countries including India, the most diversified nation. Our social groups are not only identified by their “languages”, but also identified by their “cultural” and “social rituals”. That is why Seeley (1883:255) referring to India has comment as follows: “India does not make the territory of ‘nation and language’ but it is the territory of many nations and nationalities.” The notion the Eritrean social groups are identified by “their languages only” is not correct. The “identity markers” of our social groups are their languages, their cultures, and their social rituals as practiced by each of them. That is why the new sociological orientation emerged in response to the unfolding realities of diversified societies to address minority marginalizations and their grievances. I will think if I could write an article on “nations and nationalities and why I characterize our social groups as ” nationalities (biheresebat)” and not as “nations (biherat)” and why ethnic federalism can not an “outfit governmental structure” for Eritrean realities.

            regards
            Amanuel Hidrat

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Ahlen Ismailo,

            An addendum to my previous comment: I read Hiruy’s book. It does not include in it the issue we debating about our social groups. As a person who has long history in the Eritrean politics, one expect to find his book as detailed and informative book. It doesn’t meet my expectation to say the least. Besides, it has a lot of distorted story at least in the period I participated in the armed struggle.

            Regards

          • saay7

            Hala Ismail:

            Thanks for the confirmation that grouping Eritreans by language was conceived in 1971 and affirmed in 1975, in the ELF. Long before EPLF had a congress or a stand on the issue. Nehnan Elmanan also grouped Eritreans by language but that was only in passing as it reserved most of its toxicity on “Muslim leaders victimizing Christians.”

            Globally, the definition of nationality and ethnicity has evolved T a great deal since then. Our own Ahmed Raji had a very educational series of videos on his FB wall which I hope he will share with us. Among other things, race is now considered a subset of ethnicity by some anthropologists.

            saay

          • Simon Kaleab

            Selam saay,

            You said: “Among other things, race is now considered a subset of ethnicity by some anthropologists.”

            ‘Race’ is the bigger Set, while ‘Ethnicity’ is the smaller Set. Therefore, it is the other way round, that is, ‘Ethnicity’ is a Subset of ‘Race’.

            On a related topic, the mainstream belief among scientists is that race is a social construct without biological meaning. “Race is understood to be a useful tool to elucidate human genetic diversity, but on the other hand, race is also understood to be a poorly defined marker of that diversity and an imprecise proxy for the relationship between ancestry and genetics.”

          • saay7

            Hi Simon:

            I said by some anthropologist, and over the weekend I will share a link of a video of someone making the argument.

            Like race, ethnicity is *also* a social construct specially in patriarchal societies like Eritreas. For example, a person whose mother is Saho on both her moms and moms side, and a father who is Saho on his moms side but Blin of his fathers side is considered…..Blin in Eritrea. Mathematically 7/8 is > than 1/8 but social construction says 1/8 is.

            saay

          • Dear Saay,

            This new concept about ‘race’ and ‘ethnicity’ is going to complicate things, because we have been using them with a more or less simple approach, with race being a biological trait, determined by, for example by the color of the skin, which is inherited, and ethnicity a cultural heritage that includes tradition and language, which is learned within that special social (ethnic) group.
            It looks easier to say that ethnicity is a subset of race, rather than the other way round. The peoples of africa (the black race), for example, are composed of hundreds of ethnicities, but one race. So does the white race and the asian race.
            In ethiopia and eritrea, there is one common race (the black african race) and many ethnicities. I do not know if we can talk of an ‘amhara race’ or ‘oromo race’, but an ‘amhara or oromo ethnic group’. The same should hold true for eritrea as well.

          • saay7

            Hi Horizon:

            I don’t want to oversell this: I have seen one and only one presentation by an anthropologist including race as a subset of ethnicity.

            Having said that, given that race is a “social construct”, are you comfortable with designating Africa as a race and then carving out North Africans and calling them Caucasians? Referring to Indians and Japanese collectively as “Asians”?

            saay

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Ahlen Saay,

            The origin of race begins from the era of Noah. The three sons of Noah represent the origin of race. Thus Ham represent the Africans, Shem for Asians, and Japhes for the Europeans. How true that story it is, I will let it for you the fihira. And of course ethnicity is the classification within the three races.

            Regards

          • Haile S.

            Hi Emma,
            That is why the Maya, the Aztec and Olmec are considered of extraterestrial origin:) And now I understand the origin of the two “a” in Saay7; from aardvark (fihira). And that is why Saleh7 loves our Xaxe 🙂
            Saay7 advanced apology for these trangressions.

          • tes

            Selam Amanuel Hidrat,

            I was just laughing quitely. Anyway it is a nice try. If we follow the Bible, the era of Noah could be the origin of rcae. How could it be if it is according to Hinduism or Buddhism holy scriptures?

            Does Quran also traces the origin of race starting from the era of Noah?

            tes

            Disclaimer: I believe on the science of evolution while not keeping my religion aside. In fact no contradiction if we go deeper.

          • saay7

            Selamat Emma, Haile S and all:

            Emma, how exactly do you want me to research the validity of Noah and his children and how that was the origin of races? 😲 You overestimate my capabilities and, you know my fave expression, “man has got to know his limitations.”

            One of the favorite pastime of comedia Bill Maher is making of Americans lack of information about the world and whenever he is told “but in the latest polling, x% of americans approve of …” he ruleky says “yeah same people who believe in Noah’s ark!”

            saay

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            xxxxx

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Hi Saay,

            You are recognized as the most resourceful 👨‍🏫 professor at awate university which I agree myself too. I was trying to provide you with a link regarding Noah and his kids as the origin of human race, their evolution and their migration,thinking to motivate you in digging the relationship of race and ethnicity. But I realized that we are on weekdays and I erased it. The university must have an anthropologist, and there is none other than you to fill that position.The resources are in your hand and you can dig out the pertinent subject to flash out for purposes of educating us. Come on Abu Salah.

            Regards

          • Dear Amanuel H.,

            One big difference I see between the ‘children of Noah’ theory and that of ‘out of africa’ theory of human beings and their development into different races, is the time lapse of the two, because time and the effect of the environment are extremely important in my opinion. Nobody is sure when the flood happened; some say more than 4K yrs ago. Our ‘ስምንተኛው ሺ’ since creation our ancestors (even our parents) used to say, the product of their belief and tradition, is only 8K years ago (don’t laugh).
            Contrary to the ‘out of africa’ theory, it seems that there was not enough time for the sons of Noah and their descendants to manifest the effect of the environment and form the different characteristics of races after they moved to their respective regions of the world.
            If we accept that God created the first human being, no doubt He was not interested in the race of that first human being. If we adopt the second, the ‘out of africa’ theory , most probably at the beginning of human development all must have been blacks, so that they could survive their exposure to the ultraviolet rays of the equatorial regions of africa. Skin colour change (one of the characteristics of race), must have developed over thousands of years after they left africa and inhabited temperate and colder regions of the world.

            (Just few words with the permission of Saay, who as you very well said cannot be easily replaced).

          • Dear saay.

            May be it is much easier to designate into a racial group caucasians and black africans. North africa, which is mainly inhabited by arab nations brings to the front the question if arabs are caucasians or not. I think that arabs are caucasians. Nevertheless, there seems to be a significant mix with africans and asians, due to the extended arab rule from north africa to beyond the middle east.
            Countries of the indian subcontinent that look like a melting pot of races, are difficult to put into a certain category. Asians of the far east have common characteristic features that could help to categorize them into an asian racial group.
            Sorry saay, my knowledge on the subject is limited, and I think that an anthropologist from awate university could help here.

          • Selamat S
            Ayya IsmaelAA,

            Yeah sounds like a sincere authentic testimony of one he with honor to attend the Congress of 1975.

            ” Mind you, the term Tigrinya distinguished them from Tigrawot South of the River Mereb. Thus Tigrigna fitted their place within the nation-state-Eritrea.”

            Ahh I will spare myself from a long Hateta. Just a couple of inches is at times better than the whole anchilada. Yeah that’s about a Miles walk to the a Taco Truck.

            Well…..

            tSAtSE

          • tes

            Dear Ismail AA,

            This is a wonderful historical testimony. I had a reason to be attracted to your lines. Keep us enlightened please.

            I have this big question that I had on the Jeberti issue:

            Can Jeberti Ethnicity claim be resolved by forming a political party?

            I think I did a nice counter argument against Al-Nahda Party. Please google on internet by the title of Jeberti Politics. You will get my article; The content was initially written in the comment section of this forum.

            Thank you again

            tes

          • iSem

            Hi Sal:
            “…..Christian Tigrinya-speaker who minds being called Tigrinya–except iSem”. So not to be alone in the journey, because I do not have a typewriter, and some sugar and I do not want to avoid the highlanders during my journey, BY also complained:-)
            I am sure YG would have complained, he complained of a brand new identityu when he talked about Ghedli, so that is implicit in it, do not be a divorcing in chief it;-)
            On ELF, yea, the literature is as what you said, the fact that EPLF did not change it because it was used by ELF as they do with words and other silly things does not make it correct that the generation of our grand fathers even fathers where calling each themselves by their linguistic groups, for example the Tigre in Barka called themselves Beni Amir and also I know u know this but let me remind you just because I can, the EPLF stripped the “Elit” of their ethnicity status and gave it to Rashaida, but they did not call them Arabs, Rashaida is like Beni Amir
            Also EPLF redesigned the regions, I know you kind of supported this and for decent reason, but since it is part of our history and we should not be destroying artifacts like the HS statu and Pushkin monument, we should consider the regions also part of our history and leave them alone, it was not a big problem and the regional animosity that they cooked up was a lie, because I do not remember people killing each other because regions, but they want to war because of religion and we should also change their religion, well we sort of did, we do not call them Muslims and Christians

          • saay7

            Hey iSem:

            Nah, you are all alone on this one. Not that there is anything wrong with that (Berhe Y will explain the Steinfeld reference.) YG has written tomes of j’accuse against PFDJ not one of them deals with Ghedli grouping people heretofore known as “wedi kebessa” or “hamasenay, serewetai, akele” and grouping them into a potent force known as “Tigrinya.” He know enough about politics not to argue against something that created a permanent majority. For the exact reason that I have never heard a Christian Tigrinya ever complain about being called Tigrinya. And all that credit goes to….ELF.

            Have you considered this iSem: that ELF not naming Rashaida as language group is a bigger scandal and mistake than the EPLF not calling Ellit a language group? Hmmm. As for the argument of whether it is “Barya” or “Kunama”, well DMLEK answered that question emphatically: it’s Kunama.

            As I keep saying statehood/statecraft is hard. Having 9 language groups is tough enough when you are a small country. If u want keteshrfo (so that for example the Tigre become Beni Amer, Maria KeyaH Maria xelam Habab Mensae etc etc) makes the country even less manageable.

            There is a very good reason why the Rashaida are called Rashaida. To be continued… (cliff hanger!)

            saay

          • Saleh Johar

            Hi Saay,
            Anyone can make history support a certain claim. There was not much difference between the elf or eplf as far as copying and pasting certain Stalinist classification. But bringing elf to a proclamation that is imposed by the eplf is disingenuous. The honor, I mean he disgrace, of social engineering and gerrymandering belongs to the PFDJ, struggle era cadres have no role in it. If so, the elf envisioned many things, free trade is just an example, but it had no power to float its ideas and convince Eritreans after independence. Many people have adopted pfdj’s imposed decision because of the national coerscion. Making Habesha sound vulgar is planted in the psyche of those who are living under the influence of PFDJ. You shouldn’t be surprised because many people pretend to support PFDJ as well when they don’t. Given a chance to be free, you will see them shedfing their pretend convictions like fall leaves. SJ hated indoctrination, but was not unaware of what was cooking in Isaias’ pots. There are at least 2 million clones of iSem on this one.

          • saay7

            Abu Salah:

            But this is fairly straight forward: the ELF started grouping Eritreans by language. It did so because (a) it is a fairly conventional and acceptable way to group people in anthropology (Stalin had nothing to do with it) and (b) it was a better alternative than all the others–by geography, by tribe, by faith.

            There is no proclamation, PFDJ or otherwise, about this issue. There was just a 40 plus year long conditioning. In the opposition media–hundreds of articles have been written and hundreds of air time filled–I don’t recall a single one being a Christian Tigrinya language group complaining about his or her designation as a “Tigrinya.” I would happily be corrected if you can refer me to something someone wrote or said.

            Finally on the “Habesha” identity, the reason why some people reject it is because it transcends national identity. It says that “some Ethiopians are closer to me than some Eritreans.” You have written often about how this doesn’t appear to bother other cross-border people (Afar, Beni Amer, Saho for example)…but that’s exactly now what the Agazian are arguing, except they want a Tigrinya solidarity and not a Habesha solidarity.

            saay

          • Saleh Johar

            Saay,
            I do believe people decide what they are called–no one has the right to impose an identity on them. I am sure you do nto disagree with that. If some people want to be called Agazian, Adulician, orTigrinya, they have the right. No Isaias and his group should decide on their behalf. I know I will not accept any of that, but I am recognizing the rights o others. And I will never be Tigrinya.

            As for Stalin’s role in the thinking of the struggle era, I din’t attend the cadre school, but I observed and lived it. I am not claiming you didnt find anyone rejecting the Tigrinya identity, I am not doubting it, I am just mentioning conditions that make people accept accepting being called Ethiopians, Tigre, PFDJ followers, and any other thing of policy (publicly or stealthy) imposed. And I am sure you are not claiming the people decided to be identified as Tigrinya on their own–without going into the details, I just do into accept anything imposed by the PFDJ, all of it. And I am glad I am talking abut myself. My guiding wisdom is: 1) give them an inch, they take a mile (I am careful not to give an inch without getting anything and spoil it for others). 2) Anyone attending the PFDJ festivals would think the PFDJ has total support from the people, but we know all that glitters is not gold.

            Until you bring something from my writings, this subject is dead for me.

          • tes

            Selam Saleh Johar,

            I concur with you 100%. In a free and democratic country anyone can be called whatever he/she/they want to be. If I want to called Tesfabirhan Ethnic group or whatever it is I can. (Abi don’t laugh now. hell be with your socialist mindset).

            tes

          • Saleh Johar

            Thank you Tes,
            The free choice of people is what I have been trying to explain, regardless of the choice or outcome. Thank you for u derstanding the uncomplicated viewpoint.

          • MS

            Y halla AbuSalaH
            Sorry for the delay (ኣንቢበዮ ደብዳቤኻ); my thoughts go along the following lines
            1. EPLF, in its early years, like any struggling organizations, was trying to find its nitch. While defending itself from physical extermination by two greater enemies (ELF and the Ethiopian army) it kept refining its military strategy as well as its political program- from disorganized ideas, to a coherent political program that was adopted in its first organizational congress, in 1977.
            2. Political sientists, sociologists, anthropologists try to understand social processes. The first order is to analyze the society in which the social process is taking place. And the first order of analyzing is gathering information. Part of that gathering is informatio and data that could describe the subject. Eritrean society has a clearly defined social groups. Whateven name you give them, they exist. But you can’t skip giving them a name. Because once you gathered the information, you will have to categorize it, and the first order of categorization is putting like items together. Therefore, the cultural and socioeconomic aspects of the Tigre speaking of Barka is similar to that of Sahel, SenHit and Semhar. Tribes and clans, although they cut across all provinces, they don’t become inclusive. The commonality that holds all their expressions is their language. OK, the language is Tigre, then what are the people? Well, someone said Tigre, and as you have said it has been repeated for the last 40-50 years; people got used to it. That does not mean there were no protestant to this name. There are activists, as we speak, who protest they should not be called Tigre. I personally don’t care. My argument is that we will not know if those activists have a critical support that would make us believe we have to shop for a different name. And until we get onto a political climate where citizens have a relatively open space to dialogue, we will not know. It will remain to be a matter so dear to the activists.
            3. Prior to 1977, EPLF used “speakers” as a prefix to the language in describing the the social groups. Tigre speakers, Tigrigna speakers..(ተዛረብቲ); however, in 1977, it defined the social groups as natuionalities, and summarized it into 9. Elit was one of the controversial, it did not make it to the 9 nationality. Is this an imposition? I don’t think so. ELF and EPLF, as the vanguards of the armed struggle had the task of analyzing, describing and organizing Eritrean society. They did follow what they thought was appropriate. If we are to speak of an imposition, then the armed struggle was also an imposition, the struggle and the way it was led was an imposition, independence was an imposition, because I don’t think we did have a representattive parliament that declared armed struggle, or independence. History placed those organizations to lead Eritrean struggle, they had popular legitimacy since the struggle was supported by the majority of Eritreans and they had to do what lead organizations do. They did have ideologies that they had adopted and they were using those ideological tools to analyze and organize Eritrean society. The debate that whether Eritrean social groups met the standards of nationalities as postulated by Papa Stalin was there, but people thought that was the closest of a term we could get while still adhering to the leftist ideology. There was no intent nor effort to make nationality as an organizational foundation as prescribed in Marxist-Leninist litrature. The political guidelines for organizational framework were of national nature; all the efforts were poised at ensuring the mobilization of Eritreans along similar lines, languages and trades (Unions of farmers, students, workers), and gender (Eritrean Women’s Association, sorry no Men’s Association); all the above were used as organizational tools; and they were imposed upon us, but we thought they were useful and Eritreans somehow accepted them. All governing bodies will have to do some type of “imposition”, taxes, policies, regulations, proclamations…name it. Some do it illigimately, and hence, apply it by brute force; others have legitimacy; hence they aply it through legitimate means- laws and regulations. The EPLF drove its legitimacy from the support it got for the cause it was fighting, and as a governing body had to “impose” some measures which might not have been liked by ALL. After independence, the revolutionary legitimacy should have been replaced by the ballot box. Ironically, nowadays, you don’t hear that much about Beheirat in PFDJ lexicon, it’s “Hade hzbi Hade Libi”, nationality and ethnicity have found currency in the opposition camp.
            4. I agree with you that I have not found any Christian Tigrigna speaker (the overwhelming majority) that complain about the use of “Tigrigna to label Tigrigna speakers.
            5. That takes me to the beefy item: I say “If something is working don’t mess with it.” If there is a group of people (like our Jeber community) which does not like to be named Tigrigna. That is a point. They have been called Jeber even by the Tigrigna speaking compatriots. Therefore, they have the right to raise that. But to say, Tigrigna was imposed upon ALL Tigrigna speakers, and to insinuate that, at least, the majority of Tigrigna does not approve of the name is incorrect. Worse, demanding that Tigrigna Speakers be called Habesha is actually an IMPOSITION of its kind. If the question is about Jeber not wanting to be called Tigrigna, it should be limited to that. That makes it clear. I think we need to be more concrete on our discussion. Habesha has become a political tool more than it is a cultural. The Tigrigna of Eritrea have more in common with other Eritrean social groups than with, say, Amara, which is also a major group that make up Habesha. Except few commonality, there are little so called Habesha connecting threads. Amara social group has defining characteristics and so has the Tigrigna social group. They could still exist independently without the Habesha label. To me Habesha is significant in its political message, because it blurs political borders without a single shot. It is also significant in keeping the Orthodox tradition alive and the solidarity of the orthodox community, which is not bad. Other than that, both Tigrigna and Amara are distinct social groups and there is no such a thing called Habehsa social group; it may exist as a vague super group, but it has no concrete application to the debate at hand.

          • Saleh Johar

            Ahlan Mahmouday,

            Thank you for the lengthy comment, but unfortunately, I didn’t find anything new. And I must say, Allah yesamhek–you will see why below:

            1. I have heard how EPLF was busy feigning the fear of the two enemies. “ELF and the Ethiopian army” as you put it, both targeting the poor innocent EPLF which “kept refining its military strategy as well as its political program,” to come with what the PFDJ corrupted.

            2. Of course, “Political scientists, sociologists, anthropologists try to understand social processes” and they tried so hard to understand the Eritrean situation, at least some of them, while others used their sciences to consider the Eritrean case a lost one. Honestly, if we bring scientists, sociologists, we will not be doing favor to politicians and laymen. I would prefer to pass that.

            3. I do not condone anything the regime dis or does through coercion by using its dictatorial power supported by the gun. It’s a matter of principle to me, but I have stated so many times that people are free to accept, endorse, apologize for anything the regime does. I will keep fighting it with whatever I can and reject it until the power is returned to the rightful owners who might decide exactly what the PFDJ has decided, Let them adopt the name freely, away from the eyes of the PFDJ. And there is an example of how people react when they are under the watchful eyes of the regime—Aklilu of VoA knows it, he should have reported the mothers were very happy hearing about their martyred children, ululating and not showing a sign of sorrow or grief. Now let me give you an example: an animal you kill becomes Halal or Haram based on a simple two-word statement before you kill it. You don’t need science to justify or debunk that, it is a matter of conviction. And the arguments I hear are like the cruel saying: “If rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it.” Call me foolish, Bu I would rather die screaming than accept PFDJ proclamations.

            4. No 3 is redundant, if not condescending—do you think anyone doesn’t know the material that was preached in every cadre lecture by both organizations? That was my distaste of indoctrination classes. If the legitimacy of leading an armed struggle for a specific purpose (to push out an occupying force) gives the PFDJ the mandate to do whatever it pleases after independence—something you have objected to repeatedly–there is no reason for our current struggle against the regime. Because then, all the unjust decisions that have disrupted the nation’s life, including its security policy, the indefinite service policy, the policy of treating the youth, its special court policy are all legitimate and we shouldn’t whine. Think about that Mahmouday. I am afraid you might be thinking in struggle era context, we are a state, a free nation, and that struggle era behavior cannot be justified now. Whatever excuses one presents, everything that the PFDJ decides is simply an imposition, I don’t know any other description for it.

            5. Mahmuday your beefy thing is Ebaara: “If something is working don’t mess with it.” You see, until opposing the regime became fashionable around 2000, that is what I heard from close and not so close people. I like your optimism if you think anything is working in PFDJ’s Eritrea. I can’t say more.

            6. I always clash with my Jeberti friends some of whom seem bent on insisting that Isaias recognize Jeberti as Beher. I tell them, aytewareduna eske! What if tomorrow he wakes up half-drunk and declares Jeberti a tenth ethnic group, will that be it? My position is very clear, I do not seek it from a tyrant, I decide what I should be called—but I am still a Muslim, a Habesha, a Jeberti—I am a mensaai, a Blenay, Betjukai and many more by association. I have ownership of all Eritrean social groups, races, regions and religions.They are all mine as a citizen. My regional identity is Kerenite and above all, I am an ERITREAN. I do not Isaias’ genius to tell me how to stack those layers of identities on my personal shelf. I have seen enough to understand and appreciate ethnic, regional, partisan, and religious politics, all perfected by Isaias—I will never subscribe to any of that—and my objections to which you are replying are all based on that principle. If you do not consider that, you certainly end in wasting your time trying to convince me of issues that I might be already convinced of. When it comes to the PFDJ, I am an adversary fighting it, and would like to act like one, not like a judge, or like a dispassionate do-gooder. I am stakeholder.

            7. You said, “Habesha has become a political tool more than it is a cultural.” Whose political tool has it become Mahmuday? Who used and defaced it?

            You see Mahmuday, the anti-Habesha campaign by the PFDJ started in parallel with the baptizing of groups based on their language. I know how Hebeshtay is used as a derogatory term, but will we stop the term Aslamay because it is used derogatorily? I will live with that.

            8. Finally, no one has tried to answer my years old question: why are the Rashaida not called Arabs if the naming is based on the language the people speak? It’s a rhetorical question and I have a feeling why that is so. But the answer to that is the magnifying glass that would show you the intention and the gerrymandering in Isaias’ mind—something that is so etched in his brain he can’t erase it.

            Oh my God, this reads like a boringly long Hateta as you call it. Please save me from another such long comment.

          • MS

            Ahlan Saleh
            I have explained my position and it is impregnable. I’m sorry you felt it was condescending, I did not mean it. I had to try to explain complex ideas. I used historical facts and in doing so I would have to tap into some theorritical explanations. Just like everybody else, I’m writing with the general reader in mind. I read your comments. I find some new stuff which I learn from; and sometimes, I found recycled stuff which I pass while appreciating your attempt to help me out understand a certain topic. Relax, this is a mature conversation between two mature adults. Having said that let me say, the Tigrigna people (oops! Habesha) say ካብ ጉይይ ምዓል፡ ክሳድ ምሓዝ; I think I have made my case. Unfortunately your reply sails on emotions and tangential issues. It would be helpful if you cracked the challenges presented to you. Prove if there is a case in your claim that Tigrigna was imposed upon our Tigrigna speakers. Prove if the majority of Eritrean Tigrigna don’t want to be called Tigrigna. That’s all. Avoid gettkng personal. The reader can compare your reply against my comment. Mahmoud is a dead horse abu Salah, beating me with accusatios everytime you get irritated is not going to help. The issue is not about EPLF, or Mahmud. It’s about substance and logic. I know you oppose everything that PFDJ does. I also know you opposed EPLF. But that’s irrelevant. It is irrelevant that I’m PFDJ. It’s irrelevant that you opposed the regime since its inception. What is relevant is that you are telling us the name tIGRIGNA IS AN IMPOSED ONE. Prove that. I’m very proud of provoking this thread because everytime someone comments we are learning a lot. Please don’t repeat that evryone has the right to choose what they want to be called. I know that and I have repeated that. I have isolated the case of Jeber. I have isolated the difference between the revolutionary legitimacy of EPLF and the illigitimacy of PFDJ, etc. So we don’t have to waste our time. The burden is on you to prove that your claim has Tigrigna peoples’support. If you don’t have that, you don;t have a case.

          • Saleh Johar

            Ahlan Habibna Mahmouday,

            I appealed to you, “Please save me from another such long comment”, but you were not generous and here I am commenting 🙂

            1. When I saw your comment, and said that you received my message, I tried to remember and checked the thread, I don’t think I replied to your comment, and I said to myself, he is joking. That is a note to keep.

            2. I am sorry if you think my mention of “condescension” was out of line. My apologies.

            3. I am very relaxed Mahmouday, thanks for reminding me. Please do the same.

            4. I never accused you on anything and Hashaa, you are a galloping horse, not a dead one. Mahmoud, I don’t want to say anything that might irritate you on this one, but please, please take that out of your mind. If I had a different view on anything that matters, I say bring it to your attention or debate with anyone who cares. I do not accuse you anything because we ra debating ideas, not court cases. And this reminds me of my many years old slogan: “I barrowed my skin from the Alligator”

            5. I never claimed, “the majority of Eritrean Tigrigna don’t want to be called Tigrigna” therefore I cannot prove something I have not conducted a survey on. If I said that, I must have had too much tea. Sorry, it is your claim and please prove it to yourself.

            6. You wrote, “. I also know you opposed EPLF”. How do you know Mahmud? And if I did, in what context? Honestly, the conversation or debate that I most hate is concerning partisan issues pre-1991. Please take that out of your head. I hate only the PFDJ. The PFDJ that is wreaking havoc in my country. Kindly don’t bring anything else in that hate, it is a hate sealed ala Catholic marriage, till death do us part—and life is in the hands of God.

            7. You wrote, “It is irrelevant that I’m PFDJ”! I believe this is a typing error, if you were a PFDJ, the discussion would be totally different. Please correct it less someone else gets a wrong idea.

            8. You also wrote, “I know you oppose everything that PFDJ does” Thank you Mahmoud, if forget to remember that while you read anything I write, you will not understand me at all. Thank you.

            9. What was your case about Tigrinya that concerns me? Okay, your challenge–you want me to prove that the baptizing was done by the PFDJ. Before I do that, this time I would like to bring to your attention that it is not nice to claim we are both adults and then insult me with, “your reply sails on emotions and tangential issues” on the same line.

            Now I will use your own quotes to help me get my rickety boat to sail smoothly. You “isolated the case of Jeber”. Now, you have no power to isolate what Isaias and his minions legislated. Therefore, forget your feeling for a minute, and I am assuming you agree the Jeber are identified as Tigrinya by the regime. I hope you agree it is imposed on the Jeber. But the classification was not done separately for Jeber for other Tigrinya speakers, it is one decision issued at the same time. Could it be that it was imposed in two parts? I do not think so. Since all Tigrinya speakers were baptized by Isaias at the same time, and since it was imposed on the Jeber, it follows it was imposed on the none Jeber—that argument has a terminology in philosophy that I cannot remember. You owe me a big lunch when I visit your city.

            10. Please allow me to repeat myself one more time. Over time, even the most illegitimate decision could be supported by the people. That doesn’t change my view that it was not a decision taken by the people or by their dully elected representatives, but by a dictatorial regime. That part should not be confused by whatever decision the concerned people take without coercion or duress. For example, one time, Eritreans in a DC meeting clapped, cheered and laughed when Isaias made bigoted remarks in a public meeting, That, clearly shows the acceptance if not the approval of the vile remarks by most of the attendants. But I do not have to accept it as a right at. An imposed decision could have the people’s support overtime, shfa ygberelom, as our people say, I don’t mind it. But imposed, it is.

            Dear Mahmuday, let’s accept our differences on this and related topics and move on. Even remotely, never expect me to endorse any decision or action by the PFDJ even if by miracle it managed to get us manna and quail from the sky. I realize that some might consider my absolute opposition as irrational, but allow me the freedom to choose my own irrationality, while I watch others wallow in their own irrationality.

            I mean no malice, and if you feel anything negative, I apologize from the heart—I just tried to reply to your comments with honesty and clarity. My apology again, if I erred.

            I cannot lie, I didn’t enjoy it 🙂
            But thank you.

          • MS

            Ahlan Saleh
            Haha…You are cruising on a sporty speedy boat, not on a rickety one. I thank you wholeheartedly for the lengthy explanation.

          • iSem

            Hi Saleh:
            1. Before Allah ysamhe Mahmuday,you should do so because by : “EPLF was trying to survive two enemies ELF and Ethiopia…” he is saying, ” We are sitting on a sharp knife….”:-)
            8. Rashaida, you have been asking this for years and no one answered you, but I asked the same question just yesterday to Saleh who is ok with the naming based on languages, you should forgive them for this question as it is old, they may have forgotten, you may have worn them out, but I will not forgive Sal for my unoriginal but fresh question:-)
            Also my friend Mahmudy had a slip of a tongue, he called ELF greater enemy equal with Ethiopia, whatever happened to secondary enemy?
            But before we allow Jeberti to be the tenth ethnic, we should replace the Rashaida with Hawsa (Torkrir), and then last but nor least we should recognize the Amchice as the 11th

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam MS,
            .
            There is one awkward jump in your otherwise smooth argument I couldn’t understand or figure out.
            .
            You were emphasizing that the Tigrinya of Eritrea have more in common with other Eritrean social groups than the Habesha Amara. Fair enough.
            How about the Tigray Habeshas that were skipped over? A healthy Amara members think Tigray and Tigrinyas are practically twins. Are we wrong? (I don’t want to hear from Nitricc on this one)
            .
            I am trying to smooth out my understanding of your compelling argument. I am also a firm believer of, if something is not broken don’t try to fix it.
            .
            Mr. K.H

          • Ismail AA

            Hayak Allah ustaz Mahmoud,
            This is robust and detailed presentation of your take. There are a lot of useful points.
            But, Mahmoud, while reading the lines on our Tigre speaking community, something flashed back to my mind and returned to 1946 activism (read; intifada in current parlance of the Middle East) under the leadership of the late Ibrahim Sultan on the liberation of Tigre from Shimagle domination. My question is how does this sort of classification (Tigre-Shimagle equation) fits the group identification issue? Or should we simply accept what you have explained since both of them spoke the same language it has no role.
            I am raising the issue when I noticed from the reading that there are people who oppose being identified as Tigre. Please igore the matter if you think it is an idle thought on my part.
            Regards

          • MS

            Ahlan Ya Ustazna AlmuHtaram
            Saleh Johar has tones of knowledge about this subject. But the way I see it is that the Tigre Shimagle grouping was based on socioeconomic aspects, or a vertical stratification of the same language group based on feudal ownership of the means of production, particularly land. After confiscating the fertile land, Italy basically left the lowland way of life intact. The advent of European colonial power did not disrupt the socioeconomic relations of the society. When the British Military Administration came in, things have changed. SheK Ibrahim Sultan had had a vast experience of modern governance, and he knew Eritreans were edging towards self governance, so he galvanized the serf movement. Others such as the great Mufti of Eritrea, Ibrahim MuKtar also played a great role in spreading Islamic education of social justice. The British also wanted to break the feudal relations of production. Revolution followed and that was it. But the feeling has been simmering and I heard that after independence there was some sort of political confrontations in Sahel based on those sentiments. There is still a small segment which doesn’t want to be called Tigre, because the serfs were called Tigre. I don’t know how strong it is.
            To come to your question, technically, it would be seen as a socioeconomic division within one linguistic group. Sorry, I’m in a hurry.

          • Saleh Johar

            Ahlan Mahmouday,
            Ehm, ehm. My head feels heavy with the tons of knowledge you claimed I have 🙂

            Let me share one bit to make the weight lighter.

            What you said about the Italians is true except you forgot one important thing: they left the land ownership arrangement elsewhere in tact after confiscating fertile swathes of fertile land. In the lowland however, the declared all land (pastoral) domoniale–state owned. No government ever tried to do justice to the pastoralists since then, be it British, Ethiopian or PFDJ. All of them simply inherited the Italian confiscated lands and moved on. And that is at the core of the lowland grievance.

            In structuring the society, the British allowed certain number of representatives for the tribes/groups. Small tribes that did not have the numbers were ordered to join other social groups to be eligible to be recognized and have their elected representatives. Many small groups formed alliances to be recognized and elect reps.

            The British also reformed some unjust social relations between the Tigre and their shmaglle, without touching their other civil and economic relations which were addressed during the struggle eta. That economic (and status) conflict has been buried under the surface but is now starting to show its ugly face in some circles.

            One more point that might interest you, from your region: the tribes of Semhar made a pact and formed bigger alliance. That is why all the people in Semhar are simply known as Semharites or semhar tribes. No one identifies them with their constituent parts. The late Sabbe has left us excellent information about that in one of his books.

            My head feels lighter. 🙂

          • Saleh Johar

            Ahlan ismailA
            What you said about the Tigre/Shmagelle sensitivity is true. And I know how sensitive it is. But if a few people think it is not there, then they must be speaking to people I don’t know. Also, it is felt more in some places than others depending on how severe it was. Long live the memory of the great emancipator Ibrahim Sultan. Indeed, he started the first “Intifada” as you mentioned.

          • Ismail AA

            Hayak Allah ay Ustaz al kul,
            Thank you for the feedback. I was wondering how that characterization of the Tigre as serf affect perceptions among our Tigre speaking segment of the people. I had learned very early in my adolescent life that great founding father, Sheikh Ibrahim, was so much aware that he considered dealing with that social problem had top priority on the list of his mission.
            Regards

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Merhaba Ismailo,

            As a historian, you are in a good position than me to explain the historical evolvement of our ethnics in our current Eritrea, despite the curving of nations in the continent of Africa by the colonizers was based on their economic interests, that affect the unity of ethnic identities. The division of ethnics within nation states in Africa became the sources of their conflicts. And here we have Eritrean defining our national identity before the formation nation states in the world. An absurd claim by an absurd people. Whether there were Adulusian kingdom or not, or whether Adulis was part of Axumite kingdom or not, in a distant centuries, nations and nation states are restructuring (split or United) dictated by reality (economic or political) on the ground. Their centuries old realities does not have any relevance in their today’s realities. The old history before the formation of nations and nation states are deployed as an argument to divert us from our current realities.

            Back to your questions and here are my take: I do not think the Andulusian kingdom has a leg to stand as a history. But for the purpose of your question, if there is a public approval to the claim, then the Saho and the afar ethnic were there before the so called kingdom and hence they were members or subjects of the kingdom, and for sure will be considered part of the civilization. The answer to your question is yes indeed the word habesha or abysinia refers to the people and geographical areas in the western parlance.The answer to your third question is, according the western parlance the Saho and Afars were Habesha. So whether they were handshake or not , I will reiterate what Hayat have said in here comment, and that is “the present for thinking and acting history, and the future is for creating and writing history.” Let as act on the present.

            Regards
            Amanuel Hidrat

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Merhaba Mahmuday,

            In addition to Saleh’s points and his examples:

            The habesha Identity is not a choice, it is who we are ( we the highlanders). There is no an identity called “tigrigna” so to speak. Tigrigna is a language spoken mostly by the highlanders. Second identity can not be imposed but rather inherited from the generations before us. I don’t subscribe to the tigray-tigrigna, but if the tigray-tigrigna want to be called tigrawot, it is up to them. From my understanding tigrawot is a collective of a regional name for the people inscribed within landscape of tigray – similar to that of serewetay, akleguzetay, hamassienetay apropos to Eritrea. Mahmuday, the language is not the only identifier of an identity there are more to it, and hence my tigrigna language is not my identity, but it is one of the many that define my identity. So if I said don’t call me Tigrigna which is a language, don’t try to Baptized me with Tigraway which I am not. Can an Egyptian who has the same culture and language as a Tunisian call him a Tunisian?

            Regarding, to our our Tigre social group, I am not the right person to speak exactly how they want to be called. Tigre speaking social group might have different clans. clans are not ethnic by themselves. You know different clans could make one ethnic social group as far as they have the same language and cultures and who are inscribed in a specific area. The tigrigna speaking social group have different clans as the tigre speaking people, but they are identified as habesha by their common cultures and languages and whole set traditions.

            regards

          • Saleh Johar

            Ahlan Mahmoud,

            I will go straight to your questions and answer them the way many Eritreans see them, not necessarily all Eritreans.

            1) Habesha is a super-identity identity (I chose not to use umbrella identity) that includes many other sub-identities. Just like Afar is super-identity that includes sub-identities, the Beni Amer is a super-identity that includes sub-identities, etc.

            2) As I explained earlier, the PFDJ willfully divided Eritreans into nine groups, on its own without the consent of the baptized, and baptized them with new identity names.

            3) The Saho tribes is a super-identity and it has sub-identities.

            4) People who straddle modern geographical boundaries share the same identities but belong to different nations.

            5) There are Eritrean, Ethiopian, Yemeni, Saudi, and Somali Jeberti and so far,half I haven’t see any of the concerned wishing to change it because they share it with people they are at war with.

            6) I do not know anyone called Tigrinya or Tigre until the PFDJ imposed that. I know Tigre as a language and used to identify a class of Tigre speakers. Tigre speakers were Tigre and Shmagelle which Ibrahim Sultan led an emancipation struggle to demolish.

            7) Ethiopian rulers called everyone from present Eritrea and Tigray as “Tigre” (as Berhe Y. explained) that was imposed by the rulers and not by the concerned people.

            8) Once the border war was ignited, nationalist Eritreans tried to distance themselves from the Habesha identity and mutual racist vilification was rampant. Neither the Saho, Kunama, Afar, or Jeberti wanted to eras their common identifier because the war.

            9) I do not know of your claim that Tigrinya speakers adopted the name—those who accept any proclamation by the PFDJ did—now consider the PFDJ calls the Jeberti Tigrinya, and tell me if that is imposed or not—you explained your view on the Jeberti, but you cannot accept half the imposition and reject the other half. You even said, “it was applied”. Indeed, it was imposed, applying gives the impression that is was consensual. (Disclaimer: I do the same with Gheteb’s version of history—I do not agree with his history, but I believe his theories are excellent antidote to the Agazian loonies who invent history on the go)

            10) You asked, “What evidence do you have that Eritrean Tigrinya don’t want to be identified by the name Tigrigna[?]” The onus of the proof is on you, prove to me it is their choice because I have no problem people adopting any identifier, they can all themselves Eskimos is they wish. I have no problem with any name they adopt, even if they wish to be called Tigrawot, provided it’s not decided with a proclamation by an oppressive regime.

            Dear Mahmoud, I believe the mandate of the Eritrean struggle was to push out occupiers and free Eritreans to decide how they go about their lives. I also know that in the struggle, there was Stalinist and Maoist ideology at work, to banish God from Eritrea and destroy religion, to tamper with land laws, to interfere with people’s life: a crazy social-engineering project. I understand that some of the policies were essential and good intentioned, others were dictatorial in nature. Maybe the people would have reached the same conclusions on their own because development requires it. However, the way the PFDJ went about it, treating the nation as a private lab of Isaias, is one of the major failures of our struggle—and I do not condone any of the reckless policies that has damaged Eritrea. The proof for the damage is far-reaching and that is why me and you are struggling to rectify.
            I hope I answered your questions, but sorry, I cannot answer loaded questions with “Yes or no” as you wanted me to.

            Thanks again

        • ‘Gheteb

          Hi Saleh Johar,

          (1) On The Putative “Habeshas”

          The term “Habesha” was appropriated, seized and HIJACKED by the ruling Abyssinian rulers and some of their earlier Eritrean surrogates or deputies as the term was used first to refer to the East African region in general. This is the same as the term “Azania” was used to refer to the same area. Applying the same logic you are using, one can also claim that s/he is an “Azanian”. I will say more about this issue on one of my upcoming articles. I hope to exhaustively deal with this issue in particular in a separate article.

          If one is to claim s/he is a Habesha, a proud one or not, one has, perforce, have to accept that s/he is also an ETHIOPIAN. I will demonstrate that inevitable logical conclusion in the article I am intending of penning in the coming weeks.

          (2) Adulisian vs. “Adulician”

          What I have dubbed as ‘ADULISIAN’ is not appellation for an ethnic group or a designation for an Eritrean identity. What this ‘ADULISIAN’ and not “Adulician” is at the epicenter of what I call “The Erythraen Civilization” and not some identity or ethnicity based on some mythology; very far from it. Here it is where you seem to have misconstrued what is meant by “Adulisian”.

          ” Until you started to question the Habesha identity, I thought I knew that your family also identified itself as Habesha, I never heard anyone of them referring to themselves as the re-invented Adulucians.”.

          I know that some people talk about Habesha identity, customs and norms. However, these are loose and highly undefined and unspecified terms that are not convincing or even plausible to justify the misappropriation and the hijacking of the moniker “Habesha”.

          (3) On Origins of certain personalities

          Whether Pushkin or someone else the issue is not identity per se, but heritage. I am speaking about genes here and not what one may adopt when one has moved or out migrated to other region. So, if ones genes are traced back to Eritrea, then what is wrong in stating this fact? Yes, what is wrong to state that Pushkin’s genes can be traced back to Eritrea?

          (4) On Mythology and the claim of guilt by association

          There is quite a difference between what I have been presenting regarding the “Adulisian narratives” and others such as “Kebra Negest” in the sense that I have proffered historical and other references that buttress my assertions about the issues I have raised. So far, I have yarned of no mythology here and if you think I did, please do bring them out and show me how what I have written so far is even resemble remotely to a mythology.

          (5) The Erythraen Civilization

          One is free to subsume The Erythrean Civilization as part and parcel of the Axumite Civilization and by extension to Abyssinian Civilization and indolently give to the erroneously pervasive notion that Adulis and by extension Eritrea was an integral part not only of the Axumite Kingdom, but also an integral part of the eras of Abyssinian kings and feudal lords. This is not an attempt of distancing the Eritrean historiography from the myth riddled Abyssinian narratives, but an endeavor of freeing the Eritrean historical narratives from the baseless and historically inaccurate Abyssinian “historical” renditions.

          (6) EPLF/TPLF feud and “The inter-Habesha enemity”

          Here is what you wrote:

          ” Over the last decade ad half, Eritreans have become ultra-nationalists (sometimes I feel, fascistic) and wanted to disassociate themselves from historical Axum based on EPLF-TPLF feud. That in itself is a reactionary thought bogged down on historical inter-Habesha enmity”.

          Believe it or not, the freeing of the Eritrean historiography has absolutely nothing to do with “EPLF-TPLF feud” or the “historical inter-Habesha enmity”. None whatsoever! It is a progression of the Eritrean peoples quest in liberating their history which was utterly corrupted and adulterated by a lengthy myth based narratives that paints the picture of yoking Eritrea to Ethiopia. It was this myth based narratives that gave a major impetus to the annexation of Eritrea to Ethiopia and the subsequent thirty years of an armed struggle by Eritreans to free themselves from Ethiopian rule and occupation.

          Apropos the claim that Eritreans have become ” ultra-nationalists” and wanted ” to dissociate themselves from historical Axum…”, one can also make a plausible assertion that those who are in the business of ‘de-emphasizing’ the separateness of the Eritrean history and their “Erythraen Civilization” are trying mightily to find a common ground through ‘narrations’ of “historical Axum” with the ruling oligarchy or clique in Ethiopia, The Weyanes, in their anti-PFDJ campaigns. Otherwise, the attempt of sweeping the grand hoaxes of the Abyssinian historical narratives under the rug, so to speak, is disingenuous at best and futilely inaccurate at worst.

        • iSem

          Hi Saleh: This is a good comment on identity and a consistent with other comments you have made in the past
          What your cousin does not understand is that identity is naunced, take the names of Tigre people that they have adapted after converting to Islam, it becomes their identity , the same with the Hebrew names that the Christians are obssessed with, as the names Jimie and Hazot and zerom and Rahwa slowly die, their identity changes, It is complicated stuff.
          This brings me to Jeberti, does Gheteb think he is from the Jeberti Ethinc group, or does he think the Jeberti is Tigriniya, can you ask him and his relatives, “leukkni aytibel ember”:-)
          If at random, we run a DNA test on the “tsruuy Eritrawi” like Gheteb, I am assure we would find that he as a percentage of Jewish a perecentage of Amhara, a perentage of Trukish, a perecentage of Kunama and Tokrrir

      • Saba

        Hi ‘Gheteb,
        You are saying that the two civilizations, the Auxumite and the Adulite, were separate and one was not dominating the other. But after their fall the people did not vanish, they have descendants. So the Tigrigna people of Eritrea descended from the Auxumite kingdom or from the Adulitis?
        Ato ‘Gheteb, lomi kone hamle kone, everybody was bowing to the queen including the king. Everybody was mesmerized and No one was demanding:)

        • ‘Gheteb

          Hi Saba,

          The “Tigrigna people of Eritrea” who have been residing in what is now known as the Eritrean Kebessa are NOT the descendants of “the Axumites”; very far and far from it. If you are really interested in finding out about the early settlements in the Eritrean Kebessa, please do your due diligence to ferret out and unearth the true and authentic Eritrean history based on HISTORICAL and ARCHEALOGICAL facts and other verifiable facts.

          Here are some of the sources that you may want to look on.

          (A) [ Historical Archaeology in Africa: Representation, Social Memory, and Oral traditions], by Peter R Schmidt.

          https://books.google.com/books?id=hXAZnnkFJDoC&pg=PA260… pp. 270-282.

          (B) A bird’s eye view rendition is offered through the following BBC report.

          http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2000297.stm

          BTW, why did “implacable queen” who everyone was “bowing to” and was “mesmerized and NOT demanding” fell to King Solomon’s trick of accepting to eat spicy food that led to the queen to stay up late drinking water? How did she fail to resist succumbing to King Solomon’s ploys. Of course, here we are talking about legends and myths.

          • Saba

            Hi ‘Gheteb,
            Thanks for the link. The presence of pre-Aksumite kingdoms in Eritrea does not exclude the role of the Aksumite kingdom in Eritrea. Similarly If i read a document about Isayas membership with EPLF and other prior movements, i can’t exclude and say that Isayas was not part of the PFDJ.
            The Tigrigna speaking people from both Eritrea and Tigray most likely had similar path until the birth of Mereb milash.
            It is good to research the relationship between the Auxumite kingdom and the Adulisians but there is no enough evidence to say that they were both autonomous.

            The Kind was bowing, mesmerized and not demanding but he was wise. Having noticed his wisdom, the Queen, not wanting to be too demanding and forcing, allowed the king to express his wisdom. Knowingly she played along the game. That was romantic alla fikri kedamot:)

          • ‘Gheteb

            Hi Saba,

            You wrote:

            “It is good to research the relationship between the Auxumite kingdom and the Adulisians but there is no enough evidence to say that they were both autonomous”.

            ” No enough evidence to say that they were both autonomous”??? How many evidences does one need to present to show that Adulis and, for that matter, Eritrea was NOT an integral part of the Axumite kingdom?

            For starters, the story of Abreha the Adulisian points you to the direction that Adulis was not a mere extension or appendage of the Axumite kingdom. Rather, the relationship was nothing more than a trading partnership and a loose alliance.

            What is more, is the fact that we have two evidences that militate against the claim that Adulis was part and parcel of the Axumite kingdom.

            (1) Zoscales was an Adulisian king as was mentioned in “The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea”.

            (2) Monumentum Adulitanum (ኣዱሊሳዊ ቅርሲ ) is another important source of evidence that Adulis was the site where a king’s military adventures were recorded.

            You can find more details by checking the following link.

            http://awate.com/adulisian-narratives-standing-athwart-the-abyssinian-paradigm/

            Speaking about the implacable Queen Saba and based on the mythology and folktales, why would the queen need to travel all these distances to see the king. Don’t you think that the King should have walked all the way and the distance in seeking the Queen?

  • Kim Hanna

    Selam “Gheteb”,
    .
    Let me retort back at you, oops I used a big word, retort.
    You said that it is more likely that the Amharas are the descendants of the ancient “Agazians”. Good lord, why do you have to attribute all the bad things to the Amharas. I refuse to accept it.
    .
    You also said that your readings of the badly damaged texts leads you to believe that you belong to the “Adulisian” ethnic group. Oh Man!, no you don’t, nobody does.
    .
    A little glitch, I think you might have misspelled a text you wrote in haste “Abraha- al-Ashram.” Are you sure that is what it said. Double check again that badly damaged relic, it might have said “Abraha-al Ashmaraham”.
    .
    I am just trying to be helpful in completing the next “Kibre Negest” historical document you are writing for the future Adulisian generations.
    It is Saturday and was a joy to read you. I am glad you are spending your time researching all the heavily damaged Arabic and Geez ancient texts, and filling it in as needed. I had few laughs, I hope to stay up for that “Saturday Night Live” comedy show tonight, I am not sure if it can compete with this.
    .
    Mr. K.H

    • ‘Gheteb

      Selam Mr. Kim Hanna,

      You can try your attempts of ridiculing the issues raised in the article by going on to being flippantly jocular. Yes, you can treat the issues facetiously until the cows come home. But here is what I have to say to rectify some of egregiously erroneous claims that you have made in your rejoinder.

      (a) The mercenary soldiers that joined Abreha the Adulisian were from the ETHIOPIAN HIGHLANDS and specifically Agews from Lasta. These were the PROGENITORS of the current Amhara ethnic group. If you say that you are an Amhara whose forebears came from some supernal places, then you can say that you are not the rightful bequether of the term Agazian.

      (b) Yes, Abreha the Adulisian was referred as ” ‘Abraha al-Ashram (Arabic: أبرهة الأشرم)” and you can ask anyone with the minutest amount of grey matter between his/her ears and they will tell you so.

      (c) No need for me or for Eritrea to write another mythology book replete with gargantuan hoaxes and fairytales. What the “Erythrean Histeriography” and the “Erythrean Civilization” with Adulis and Adulisian narratives at its epicenter, is and will be based on archeology, historical archeology and historical facts and other verifiable sources.

      (d) You can keep laughing if you wish to do so. Who said that ignorance is not a bliss!

  • Graviton

    Peace new?

    You sourced only five references and arrived at these “mind blowing” conclusions? I will take you for a comedian( albeit, a sloppy one). I couldn’t care less about the fact you’r trying to take a jab at the recent “Agazian movement” through deceit and misinformation. But i just cant understand your constant obsession to trash anything Ethiopian except for the good things which all of a sudden, supported by few references here and there, happen to be only Eritrean(an artificial state). Is it an Eritrean’s attempt to carve and chisel a distinct superior non-existent identity?

    • ‘Gheteb

      Graviton,

      No need for Eritreans to ” carve and chisel a distinct superior non-existent identity”. I mean that through sheer volume of apocryphal and mythological rendition, the Abyssinian historiography attempted to inter and bury Eritreans true identity. No, thanks to our struggle and the Eritrean Revolution, we, Eritreans, were able to UNEARTH our true identity. This articles coming from me, are just part attempts of fine tuning and removing and dusting off some dross and dirt fro the emergent Erythraen historiography and ancient Erythraen civilization.

      • Graviton

        Peace new?

        Perhaps, you think too much of yourself. I read in one of the comment sections, Awate is a virtual university where people get to be schooled and learn something valuable historical. And that requires credibility from those who do the teaching, as much as it requires students undivided attention . You see, you lack “objectivity”, to hold you back from twisting and oversimplifying an overly complicated issue to the point you cant even tell if its your emotions or facts that’s driving your analysis.

        Your methodology suffers from lack of multiple source materials. You even cited “Wikipidia”, and you expect me to take your work seriously? i mean we are talking about ancient history not some quantum theory.

        In short, you just wrote this thing to treat your own petrified ego for whatever is brewing in the political map of the horn of Africa. I say “you are worried shitless”

    • blink

      Dear Graviiton
      What does the Ethiopians have ? Let’s count one by one
      1.a myth of 3000 years old story that was made ever by human being
      2. The garden of lions ( hatse, menelik, …) full of criminals as best rulers
      3.Eritrea as yours ,false and checked by blood.
      4.Empire ??? That one always shocked me. I can go on and on
      But I would like to cut down to one word and that is EMPIRE again,
      There are various criteria for classifying the heterogeneous population of the Ethiopian Empire but every things is full of crap.The true Ethiopian of the highlands regards himself as of the white race, for he quite rightly traces his racial ancestry to the Hamitic invaders of North Africa. But thousands of years of contact with the negro peoples of Central and East Africa have darkened his complexion to a café au lait or even to a chocolate, it is simply a madness.

      Saay pls help pls , if you can because my English is dirty to Hayat,Abi….

      • Graviton

        peace new?

        Was that Latin? no offense dude, its just, i couldn’t crack the crux of your diatribe. Do you even know what you wanted to say? I tell you what buddy, why don’t you blink twice and may be something meaningful might come out of it? In the mean time enjoy the new interview by your demigod with a media channel dedicated to spread his prized words. I will give you a hint, from his rich and in-depth experience of running a democratic nation( results speak for themselves), spoke wisdom of the “how” of democratizing Ethiopia.

        can this illusion get any better?

  • Selamat Gheteb,

    Well sounds a lot like the Nights of The Templars to me.

    Hey is this Abraha dude the same General that is A. Pushkins forfather?

    Now you got me curious to read the Agazian version of history. You and I asked a young member of Agazian. Though, I dismissed his response as the group legitimacy as a reaction to The Alnahda Party, I admit I gave serious consideration to his suggestion of “Ambib” and or checkout the youtube of theirs.

    Also, great graphics of The KaEba with the elephants birds and all. It looks like The Burning Man Festivals of the Nevada Deserts, Woodstock, Greatful Dead, Amherst Spring Fest and Breakfast scrambled eggs and steak at For Petes right after Soul Music with DaBrothas with Marvin Gaye singing “Brother bothers there is so much of us dying. Mother mother the children are crying. What’s Going on?”

    You said General Abraha and his elephants came to destroy the KaEba. Apparantly, he did not succed? I suppose in due time this new trend I will understand it’s pertinent points.

    Oh yeah, it is Pete’s Dinner on Main Street. The habitual “For Pete’ sake”, of way back then.

    The Ghetebite,

    tSAtSE

    • ‘Gheteb

      Selam Tsa Tse,

      Thanks for the feedback. As always, your keen reading of the issue at hand is quite apparent in this input/response. Here is what I have to say about the issues you addressed in your rejoinder.

      (1) “Well sounds a lot like the Nights of The Templars to me”.

      The similarity between Abreha’s expedition to Mecca/ Kaaba and The knights Templar Christian military order of the Crusaders for the protection of Jerusalem is that both of them were done in the name of Christianity. One was a campaign against Arab polytheism in Mecca and the Templars campaign was against those Arabs who professed a belief in Islam. Abreha’s military expedition predate those of the Templars by about a thousand years. Though one can see the similarities between the two, a lot more contrasts or differences can also be drawn.

      (2) ” Hey is this Abraha dude the same General that is A. Pushkins forfather”? No. We are talking about two different Abrehas Abrahas here. Abreha the Adulisian general had two sons from a Yemenite wife, named Raihäna .They were:

      (a) Yaksum
      (b) Masruq

      (3) ” Now you got me curious to read the Agazian version of history”. Regarding those who are claiming or have claimed about belonging to the so-called Agazians, there is NO

      • Abi

        Hi Gheteb
        Is your Abraha the Adulisian and my Abraha Deboch the Ethiopian are one and the same?

        • ‘Gheteb

          Hi Abi,

          According to the information I have Abraha Deboch is actually an Eritrean. So, when I assert that General Abreha and later King Abreha of Yemen, the Adulisian Abreha were, in the final analysis, Eritreans, though they may have cooperated with the Abyssinians and Ethiopians in some part of their careers for some common goals.

          NO! Abreha the Adulisian and Abraha Deboch were NOT “one and the same”. The latter Abraha was an anti-fascist Eritrean patriot and the later Abreha was a King of Yemen who hailed from Adulis, Eritrea.

          Just to add to the names of those who may have joined the Ethiopians in the anti-fascist campaigns here are some names:

          (1) Zerai Deres
          (2) Abraha Deboch
          (3) Moges Asgedom
          (4) General Andom Tesfatsion

          You can add to that the EPLF/TPLF cooperation to end the Derg’s reign in Ethiopia and the current Eritrea/Ethiopian opposition group cooperation against the tribal Weyane junta’s rule of Ethiopia.

          I am saying that historically speaking you are more of an Agazian than those Tigrayan, Ethiopians and Tigrigna speaking Eritreans who are claiming to be the descendants of the so-called Agazians. I mean you have more claim to the word Agazian than, say, Semere Andom to the very term Agazian.

          • Abi

            Hi Gheteb
            Sorry for the late response. Saturday is a busy day in the soccer ⚽️ world. You see , I got better things to do.
            Thank you for the promotion. Now I consider myself as a full fledged Agazian!!!
            I always wanted something to directly associate me with The Axumite Kingdom. I accept the promotion.
            You know, it could be worse. What if you call me Adulisian? I should be behaving nicely before I am demoted to Adulisian.

          • ‘Gheteb

            Hi Abi,

            Glad to hear that you had a wonderful and awesome time “in the soccer ⚽️ world” as you are going to need it now when you are going to be exposed to do a mental soccer game.

            Consider it a promotion or whatever, I have just indicated a historical fact that the mercenary soldiers from the Ethiopian highlands, Agews from Lasata, were under the leadership of an Eritrean general hailing from the port city of Adulis who were a military contingent on that military expedition to Yemen.

            All I said was that based on this historical fact, you have more of claim on the term Agazian than those Tigrigna speakers from Tigray or Eritrea who are overtly claiming to be the descendants of Agazian or those crypto-Agazians like Semere Andom who hails from the border village of “Kuhli Zeb’Ei”.

            Now you may say I don’t believe these Agew soldiers were called Amhara or as you would say Amara, well then you have to listen to this guy named Dr. Lapeso Ge. Delebo in the video link provided below.

            https://youtu.be/TPCKLODQYIE

            Pay particular attention to the part from the 9:46 on. Here it is in writing so that you don’t feign that you didn’t understand his accent when he spoke Amharic.

            ” የአክሱም ወታደሮች “ሰራዊት” ነው የሚባሉ፣ የዛግወ ወታደሮች ‘አማራ’ ነው የሚባሉ”.

            ” According to the Agew language usage then, a soldier of the Zagew Dynasty was called “Amhara”. Likewise, a soldier of the Axumite empire, a soldier used to be called “Serawit”.

          • Abi

            Hi Gheteb
            You are way too serious today.
            Malaga 2
            Barcelona 0
            Can you believe this?

            Back to less important issues.
            Do you know ወታደር means?
            ወታደር ማለት ከቤቱ ወጥቶ የሚያድር ማለት ነው:: ወጥቶ አደር::
            I hope Lapiso knew this definition.
            I wish I knew what ሰራዊት meant. Any idea?

            Honestly, I care less what happened ምድር አዲስ ሳለች:: Agazian, Adulisian, Abraha….

            “እዳው ገብስ ነው ” ይላል ያገሬ ሰው ነገር ሲያቀል::

          • ‘Gheteb

            Hi Abi,

            I was looking for your reaction or your take about Dr. Lapesos’s assertion that,

            ” የአክሱም ወታደሮች “ሰራዊት” ነው የሚባሉ፣ የዛግወ ወታደሮች ‘አማራ’ ነው የሚባሉ”.

            ” According to the Agew language usage then, a soldier of the Zagew Dynasty was called “Amhara”. Likewise, a soldier of the Axumite empire, a soldier used to be called “Serawit”.

            Now Abi, quit feigning and quibbling and try to offer a direct answer.

          • Abi

            Hi Gheteb
            You see what you are doing to your favorite Ethiopian from the Agazian Kingdom?
            I came all the way to the basement looking for the question.
            I think you are interested to know my reaction to Lapiso’s assertion?
            Ok , it is easy. Ras Abi is indifferent to what Lapiso is saying. Ras Abi is not interested in what happened when Jesus was on earth.
            Ras Abi is more interested in dabo and water and electricity and education and basic health and similar other things than Zaguwe, Amara, wetader, serawit, Lapiso, Delebo, ….
            By the way your current article gave guffawing. It is a double thank you.
            ከአክሱም ስትሸሽ ቀይ ባህር ዉስጥ እንዳትገኝ::

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