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Hope From Pretoria

In a culture that is not strong on expressing gratitude the word “yeqenyeley” has evolved to mean, “Thank you,” but its initial use seems to be more selfish and self-serving. It is simply used to express a wish of re-using an item again and again. The more accurate, refined and noble word “temesgen” is used almost exclusively for expressing gratitude to God. Interestingly the word “temesgen” lacks personal intimacy indicating the God of the Tewahdos, “Our Father who art in heaven…” is indeed not that personal. But who wants to go theological today; I just want to say “yeqenyeley” to my friends in Pretoria, South Africa who afforded us a great opportunity to focus on what is important. The workshop was, for sure, a feast of intellect; a bonfire of ideas that sparked a renewed zeal for a broad-based solidarity movement that is hoped to catapult the-movement-for-democratic-change to victory. Don’t get carried away; it is just a workshop, but not just any workshop, there was something special about it. Perhaps it had to do with the spirit of Mandela; the spirit of Truth and Reconciliation. I guess it is one of those where one has to be there to know it; but one cannot help but hope that those who have been baptized will go on mobilizing the Eritrean people to stand up for justice and democracy.

But more on the workshop and my trip to Pretoria later; let me start with a story that was told by one of our gracious hosts, Asmerom Tewelde, who in our last day drove Semere Kesete, Abdurahman Seyed and me to the majestic Voortrekker Monument that celebrates the pioneer history of the Afrikaner. From the top floor of this great landmark, we were able to get a panoramic view of the scenic Pretoria; and if you are a history buff like me there is plenty of stuff to gobble.

Brother Asmerom is of medium height, of lighter complexion with a linguistic prowess aptly beautified with a sense of humor. Occasionally I pride myself with an encyclopedic knowledge of Tigrinya proverbs, but in a few short minutes, he succeeded in proving me wrong. I am not that great to be humbled, but it was the right pinch that awakened my thirst for Tigrinya wisdom. Listening to him is exactly what I did; concerned I might fit the description in his proverb, “wedi sebeyti’s zereba ykhtr imber aykhteln.” (Try translating that into English!) When I learned he will be studying law, I told him that he should be doing comedy or acting, and as a matter of fact he had a small role in the movie Beyond Borders that starred Angelina Jolie and Clive Own. He was, for the most part, the Tigrinya coach for the Namibian actors. Check him out, he is the one sitting on top of the truck and spoke in unmistakably Eritrean accent. The movie is available on Netflix.

Inda inqrbit Temen (House of scorpion and snakes)

The earthly possession of a couple included a cow, a sheep and a chicken. After some time of married life, the woman fell out of love and was scheming to get rid of her husband so she can have it all. She would put poison in the places she knew her husband will not miss; but the house-mouse will get there in time and remove it. This went on for some time and finally out of desperation, she asked her husband to buy her a mouse-trap. The mouse heard the conversation. She approached the cow, sheep and chicken and asked for their help; and all of them told her to get lost.

The unsuspecting husband bought the mouse-trap on his way from work and as they settled for the night, the wife put the trap in one of the places where she previously had the poison. Shortly after, she heard the click sound of the mouse trap and eagerly went to savor her victory. She was so confident of her prize that she didn’t bother to verify if she had the right victim. She stretched her arm to pick up the mouse-trap and was bitten by a snake which was struggling to get out. She ran away screaming and fell on the ground, quickly losing consciousness and the husband rushed her to the hospital. She received the necessary medical treatments and was asked to stay overnight for further monitoring. The next day the doctor recommended that she gets lots of chicken soup to regain her health and strength. The husband had to slaughter his only chicken and when that did not make her get better, he had to do the same with the sheep. Unfortunately, all the chicken and sheep soup did not help her to recoup her health, and finally she succumbed fighting her last breath. The husband slaughtered his only remaining possession, the cow, for her tezkar, 40 days memorial; and was left flat broke.

The husband was left alone in the house without his prized possessions. He could not stand his loneliness, deprivation and sorrow and had to move out. There was no one to care for the house that it became a haven for scorpions and snakes –inda inqrbit temen.
It is in recognition of the fact that Eritrea has become inda inqrbit temen that Eritreans from different parts of Africa, Australia, Europe and North America, as individuals and representatives of civil organizations, met on May 9-11, 2014, in Pretoria, South Africa, to discuss issues of national importance at a workshop organized by EMDHR under the theme: “Strategic Thinking on Political and Socioeconomic Crises in Eritrea: Implications, Scenarios and Responses.” The workshop was divided into four thematic categories: The Rule of Law and Constitutionalism, Socio-economic and Humanitarian Crisis, The Road to Democracy, and Transitional Justice and Peace Building. I presented a paper on the Road to Democracy and since EMDHR have not stated what they intend to do with participants’ papers; I will not be able to share it with you, at least for now.

But in the beginning was the long trip to Pretoria; an almost 16 hour non-stop flight from Atlanta. The flight from Dallas to Atlanta was short and engrossed that I was with the companion I was reading, I was surprised to notice the plane slowing down on the tarmac. This is the only time I agreed with Delta’s slogan, “You’ll love the way we fly.” Next-time, I take long trips, it better be first class; otherwise staying home or driving is the only option for me. In the last few months I put more than 6000 miles driving to East and West coasts, and experiencing Woody Guthrie’s folk song, “This land is your land, this land is my land, from California to New York Island, from the Redwood Forest to the Gulf Stream waters, and this land was made for you and me.” I found it to be a total bliss. After more than 24 years of studying, living, working and visiting in about 40 states, I’m still spellbound by the beauty of America and its endless possibilities. The beauty of its landscape, topography and vastness is only matched by the beauty of its ideas, and most of all by the crown-jewel of ideas: freedom. Having experienced it first hand, it is only natural that I wish it to the land of my ancestors and to the people I share a natural bond with. This idea is that inspires my political thinking and that animates my activism.

A prior arrangement was made where Dr. Bereket and I will meet in Atlanta. Having arrived about 40 minutes earlier I had the opportunity to charge my cellphone and continue conversing with my companion about the importance of literature and why we should care. Time quickly lapsed and as I hurried towards the escalade I saw the 80 plus year young Dr. Bereket swaggering past me. I said, “Hi, ami adictur” and he glanced towards me and responded, “selamat ya ibni,” and we exchanged hugs. We had a couple of hours to spare and as soon as we reached our terminal, we found a nice place where the good doctor had a glass of wine and the wimpish me a cappuccino. Any time with ami aldictur is time well spent. Most people know Dr. Bereket for his impressive resume, but I know him as a caring friend, mentor, and advisor, confidante who has grown to fill the roles of an uncle and father altogether for me. During our long flight, Dr. Bereket sat in the seat behind me, and at least once, he came to advise me to get up off my seat every two hours and move around. After finishing talking with my companion, I watched the movie Lone Survivor.

When our plane landed in Pretoria and were passing through customs, we saw Fozzia Hassan who hurriedly came to greet us. I’ve neither spoken nor seen her for the last few years since I resigned from my EGS chairmanship; she was a member of the board. She is a single-mom raising two kids and I could easily appreciate her commitment to the cause of freedom. This was a workshop where everyone had to cover his/her own travel expenses. During the course of our stay in Pretoria, I was struck by how much she has matured and by her grasp of issues. Her colleague from London, Biniam Debessay, was an equal delight to see him talk; his passion for defending the liberation struggle is only matched by his intense desire to see a democratic Eritrea that he bravely fought for as a member of the EPLF mechanized unit. He is pursuing a degree in Political Science and his thesis is on Soft Power. (Way to go bud; can’t wait to see more and bigger things from you and thanks for teaching me a new Tigrinya word!)

The tall, handsome, Hollywood like persona, Henok Haile was the one who drove us to our hotel from the airport in his 7 seat passenger SUV. I learned a lot about the generals and other military personnel, and how the system has emasculated them, life in military service, and the warsay-ykealo project from him. But most of all, I appreciated his insights about EMDHR and the opposition. He has an uncanny ability to simplify issues.

We had to wait for a few more minutes for Solomon Assefaw, from California, who had arrived a bit earlier, and took a taxi instead. Solomon and I have spoken over the phone once or twice in the past, and based on what I have read online and the many rumors I heard, I didn’t expect a jolly-good-fellow who I would instantly like and celebrate. If you like the Asmarino lingo and humor, he is the man. He strikes me as someone who is more comfortable with action than with words and his no-none-sense approach is quite refreshing. Solo is very caring and generous with a personality that is hard not to like. Put some red costume and a white beard on him, he would make a great Santa.

After showering up, we went next-door to a restaurant (actually few blocks away) where our hosts and other quests were waiting for us. We met with the indefatigable Human Rights advocate, Elsa Cherum, the talented and affable Abdurahman Seyed whom I had met in the Netherlands about 12 years ago, the tough and strong-willed Semere Kessete, Binian Debessay I had mentioned earlier, and the extraordinary AAW—Ambassador Andebehan Woldegirogish or simply Andy, a term that reminded him of his old school days. We also learned that Dr. Assefaw Tekeste was not able to join us for the conference. It is also here that we met most of the leadership of EMDHR: Kuluberhan, the chairman, Dr. Adane, the Treasurer Abdelwas’I, Tesfalem and others their names escapes me. It was a group of people that I immediately felt at home with.

It was after breakfast the next morning that I met Abdurazaq Kerar from Australia. I had met him before in Geneva, alongside Yassin, Elsa Cherum and Amaha Domenico, during the UPR sessions where all of us, except Elsa, came representing the Awate Foundation. Abdurazaq had translated two documents into Arabic at my request before and it was basically a reunion of old friends. It is here that I met the many people that make EMDHR. I’m not going to list their names for fear of leaving out some. But, it is really nice to meet with people of different background like the botanist Dr. Michael Bairu or the civil engineering Ph.D. candidate whose name escapes me, who seem, due to their scientific training, look at things logically and more clearly. I particularly enjoyed Meron’s Elite Theory presentation.

The opening remarks were given by the leaders of EMDHR: Kulubrehan, Dr. Adane and Tesfalem. Dr. Adane is an expert in peace building with an extensive experience in the region which proved to be an important asset in our deliberations. It looks like Adane’s and my path have crossed when we were kids in Mendefera. I’m sure the temperament and equanimity of Kulubrehan had a lot to do with the success of the organization that was led since its establishment by my friend, Samuel Bizen. I’ve always equated EMDHR with Samuel for he is the one who introduced me to it. Listening to his speech on the last day proved me that I was right. After so many emails, chats and phone-calls, it was really a treat to meet Samuel and I hope to see him soon, hopefully in Asmera.

A former minister who is a member of ANC leadership was invited to share his experience in the long struggle against apartheid as well as in the democratically elected government. I was struck by two things he said: the propensity of small countries to hatch endless number of organizations and how difficult it is to try reconciling organizations that don’t have ideological differences. The ANC was able to overcome the challenges because it was the by far the strongest and most influential organization that wisely and in a spirit of magnanimity reached out to the smaller ones and included them in the process. He exhorted that we should never enter into negotiations if we are not ready to make compromises.

The candidness with which the deliberations were conducted was a milestone. The spirit of camaraderie and solidarity was evident in the way people eagerly embraced each other. But most of all, there was an enthusiasm to be part of the solution; and expedite the end of tyranny. It looks the muddy waters are finally settling down where people can see the urgent and the important, the important but not the so urgent, the manageable and the unavoidable, and the avoidable and the unmanageable.

weriz@yahoo.com

About Semere T Habtemariam

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  • Saba

    [To moderator: Sorry for duplication, i would like to post it here]

    Dear Haile T G,
    You accused me of prioritizing PFDJ interests but i am prioritizing eritrean interests. Do you think Eritreans who died due
    to TPLF crimes 16 years ago are less eritrean than those who die today due to PFDJ crimes?
    In your last post you go in extensive detail about Tigrean victims of eritrean pilots but you quickly sidelined the
    eritrean victims. Do you believe that there are eritrean victims due to TPLF crimes? Can you please mention even one case? T.Kifle and others failed to mention even one case. How about you?
    At this point i am not sure you care about Eritrean victims even under PFDJ. Do you care more about TPLF interests?
    Why is that you can not make a distinction between “opposing PFDJ” and “supporting TPLF”?
    Saba

    • haileTG

      Absolutely rubbish. Dear Saba, please learn the distinction between justice and injustice, dignity and indignity, walking in the light of truth and that of deceitful shamelessness. Then go back and study 1500+ comments by haile and you will be inspired to find out that you are human with a mind, feeling and soul of you own. So far, the only thing given to you and you seem to have the opportunity to use is your name. Everything else is in service of someone else. That is why you get terrified when you get to talk to people like haile who are masters of their own assets 🙂

      • Saba

        Dear Haile T G,
        Wow this one sounds like “ZeItNeGer Ilkum ghideFwo”. Usually I expect you that you will send me a youtube link and you do as expected but this time you are asking me to search in all your posts for a specific question: Can you name any TPLF crime, as you did with great details with the pilots?
        At least you could send me youtube link of “maSSe”, “DIbeLA” that praise TPLF.
        You said”THE PEOPLE DON’T NEED A PLAN TO REGAIN THEIR LOST DIGNITY, THEY SHALL TAKE IT BY ALL MEANS NECESSARY”. This empty plan has not worked for the last 23 years. That “all means necessary” does it mean TPLF-led invasion. How many more years do you want to wait? Unlike you, I am solution oriented while you are trying to demoralize or anesthetize people by politicizing our suffering. It is
        amazing that you have different reaction for the same suffering, you 1) politicize PFDJ victims, 2)are delighted for sanction related problems and 3)sidelined if they are TPLF victims. This is what I get from your posts.
        It is sad to see “Gobezat Adi Kimeshakenu”, TPLF will love you only if you stand tall.

        • haileTG

          Hi Saba (don’t worry, I am cooler today:)

          Your proposal sounds AbaKyuna, which is very demoralizing to us. The most of those 23 years were spent helping the dead beat regime of yours that has turned to be nothing more than just that, dead beat. A vibrant nation of people, with citizens considered like human beings and not less than Animals (listen to interview by Michael Adonay) can give ultimatum for TPLF to vacate the lands. It would have the diplomatic clout, popular support and military muscle to flex. Sadly, your useless regime took all our money, good will, dollar a day, bonds… and told us n’edekum may wredula. Listen to Ande Hishel and wedi tikabo. Some were even kept in body bag and stuffed in freezers for 50 days while their children begged to bury their dad in a land he spent 50 years fighting for and ended up disowned posthumously. So, you want me to cry foul to alley the fears of such disgusting beast that hands AK-47 to every family (including those with underaged kids who can play with live munition). As far as the dismal mind numbing argument you are trying to use with me, don’t waste your time. PFDJ cadre school graduates are hamham heads to me (I feel sorry for the uneducated masses of my people who are made to sleep walk into their demise). I can deal with 100 of them at a time and can sell them for an Awd’eAmet sheep in Edaga Hamus. HGDEF is stupid and I know their sickness. Do you know if one has the right lines connected that they can get even Sophia and Gedeon hanged from Bahti meskerem? Ask Beyene Russom, he knows one or two things on how blind and dumb your PFDJ is. TPLF has got ya where it needs you, floored in all fours with your behind up in the air, jut take the flogging, roll over and die, would ya.

          Happy Independence

    • T. Kifle

      Dear Saba,

      The other day, I asked you to enlighten me on the “crimes” TPLF did commit on Eritreans. You came up with argument of “Declaring a full scale war”. Can you tell me more because this “crime” is already noted?

      • Eritrean Nationalist

        T. Kifle:
        You asked for it so here it goes:
        (1) Weyane Tigray illegally stripped Eritreans living in Ethiopia of their properties and lifetime savings, separated them from their spouses and children in order to inflict maximum psychological pain and made them walk through landmines before they crossed the border into Eritrea.
        (2) Weyane Tigray continues to illegally occupy sovereign Eritrean territories in defiance of the Hague border ruling to which both parties agreed to.
        (3) Weyane Tigray destroyed martyrs cemeteries (for God’s sake Martryrs Cemeteries) in the towns it occupied.
        I could keep going but you get the point.

        • T. Kifle

          Nationalist,

          These questions are redundant and you are not asked anyway

          • Eritrean Nationalist

            Weyane Tigray’s list of crimes against the Eritrean people and State of Eritrea are long. I didn’t even include the illegal sanctions Weyane Tigray championed in order to choke the Eritrean people and their economy.

  • AMEN

    It is evident that anyone can clearly see it T. Kifle is only an educated intellectual
    serving as a public relations officer for some one behind in the background.Other
    than that it is clear that he seem to have no inside or first hand knowlege of the
    events he is narrating on behalf of someone. There is a gap in the chain linking
    his intellectual narratives or explanations to the actuall reality and historical facts
    and events he is explaining.
    But , honestly I admire the level and quality of education and communication skills
    the guy has but I believe he grew up detached with the actuall events on the ground
    or at home.
    No question about the fluency and stellar level of his academic education and presentation
    of facts though.

  • Mahmud Saleh

    ሰበር ዜና..ሰበር ዜና…Ghedli news flash
    05/22/91: ኣካባቢ ሳዓት 1400 or 1500 ኣበበ ዝበሃል መንእሰይ ምሩኽ ረኺበ። ናይ ቅኝት/ወተሃደራዊ ስለያ ናይቲ ኣብ ቅድመና ዝነበረ ሓይሊ ነይሩ። ኣነ እውን ኣብ ተመሳሳሊ ስራሕ ተመዲበ ስለዝነበርኩ እዮም ናባና ኣምጺኦሞ። ድፋዓት ተሰባቢሩ ብየማንና ወገን ደቀምሓረ ድሮ ተታሒዛ ሓይልታትና ንቅድሚት ይግስግስ ከምዝነበራ እዝክር። ቀቅድሚ ኣበበ ምርካበይ ሬድዮ ኣዲስ ኣበባ መንግስቱ ሃይለማርያም ከምዝሃደመን ተስፋየ ገ/ኪዳን ከምዝተከኦን ትነግር ነይራ። ተስፋየ ገ/ኪዳን ኣብ ኤርትራ ነዊሕ ዝገበረን ንኤርትራውያን ዘድመየን ደመኛ በዓል ስልጣን እዩ ነይሩ። ክተሓዝ ወይ ክቅተል ተተምነኹ። ምስ ኣበበ ሰላምታ ድሕሪ ምልውዋጥ ከምዝዛነን ፍርሒ ከምዘጉድልን ቅሩብ ፍትሕትሕን ፍስህስህን ክብሎ ነኣሽቱ ዕላላት ቀጸልና። ተመሃራይ ከምዝነበረን ኣብ ሁለትኛ ኣብዮታዊ ሰራዊት ክልተ ዓመት ከም ዝገበረን ዝሰርሓሉ ኣሃዱታትን ሓበረኒ። ብዛዕባና ዝነበሮም ሓበሬታ ሓቲተዮ ዳርጋ 60% ዝኸውን ቅኑዕ ሓበሬታ ነይርዎም። ብዛዕባ እተን ንዋገአን ዝነበርና ሓይልታት ዝሃበኒ ሓበሬታ እውን ካብቲ ዝነበረና ብዙሕ ዝፍለ ኣይነበረን። እታ ሓንቲ ዘረጋገጽናያ ነገር ግን እዝን ቁጽጽርን ጸላኢ ዳርጋ ይበታተን ነይሩ። እንግሊዘኛን ኣምሓርኛን እንዳ ሓዋወስና ኢና ንዕልል ነይርና። ኣብ መንግኡ፡ መንግስቱ ከምዝሃደመ ነጊረዮ። ኣበበ ክኣምኖ ኣይከኣለን። ሬድዮ ከፊተ ኣስሚዐዮ። እታ ሬድዮ ጸጸኒሓ ነቲ ዜና ተምጸኦ ነይራ። “እንታይ’ሞ ተሪፍዎ?” ኢሉኒ ከም ድንግርግር ኢሉ። ነቲ ኲናት ምዃኑ ተረዲኡኒ። “ዝተረፈ ዘሎ ኣይመስለንን” ኢለዮ። ኣስዒበ ” ሕጂ ‘ሞ እንታይ ክትገብር ኢኻ?” ኢለዮ። “ንኣደይ ክርኢ ምደለኹ” ኢሉኒ ናይ ምሩኽ ምሽክንክን እንዳኣርኣየ። ኣዕንቱ እውን ንብዓት ክቋጽራ ይደልያ ነይረን። ተማሪኸ ኣይፈልጥን እየ፣ግን ብዙሓት ምሩኻት ርእየ ስለዝነበርኩን ኣብ ዝተወስነ እዋን እውን ምስኦም ሰሪሐ ስለዝነበርኩ፡ ብፍላይ ኣብቲ መጀመርያ እዋን ዘርእይዎ ጠባያት እፈልጦ ነይረ። ክሳብ ኣብቲ እንዳ ምሩኻት ዝበጽሑን መሰላቶምን ግቡኣቶምን ዝንገሮምን ኣብ ፍርሒ እዮም። ኣብ ኩሉ ምሩኽ ዝረአ ባህርያዊ ነገር እዩ። ” ኣጆኻ፡ ዕድለኛ ኢኻኣብ መወዳእታ ኲናት ተማሪኽኻ ኣደኻ ኣብ ቀረባ ግዜ ክትርእያ ኢኻ ኢለዮ። ጽንሕ ኢሉ ” ኣደኻ ካብዘይትርኢ ክንደት ጌርካ” ኢሉ ሓቲቱኒ። ኣጋጣሚ ኮይኑ ከባቢ ሓደ ዕድመ ነይርና። ” ሕጅስ 16 ዓመታት ኮይኑ እዩ ኢለዮ። ብጣዕሚ ሰንቢዱ። ” በሰላም የእቱኻ፡ ኣምላኽ ብሰላም ከእትወካ ክጽለየልካ እየ” ኢሉ ብእምሓርኛ ንኩሎም መለእኽቲ በጺሕዎም። ብፍላይ ግን ንገብርኤል ደጋጊሙ ይጥቕሶ ከምዝነበረ እዝክር። ” ኣብ መንጎ ኣደኻ ኣዚኻ ናፊቕካያ ክትከውን ኣለካ” ኢሉ ተወከሰኒ። ብእወታ ምስ መለስኩሉ ኣስመራ ምስ ኣተኹም ትኽ ኢልካ ክትከዳ ኣለካ” ኢሉኒ። ከምኡ ከምንገብር ነጊረዮ። ኣደይ ቅድሚ ዓስርተ ዓመታት ከምዝዓረፈት ኣቀዲመ ሰሚዐ ከምዝነበርኩ ኣይነገርክዎን። ኣንፈትና ንምዕራብ፡ ጽርግያ ኣስመራ መንደፈራ ንምቑራጽ ስለዝነበረ ናብኡ ንደፍእ ነይርና። ኣበበ ምሳይ ንሳዓት ወይ ሳዓትን ፈረቓን ኣቢሉ ተጓዒዙ ብርክት ዝበሉ ምሩኻት ኣክኪቦም ዝነበሩ ብጾት ረኸብኩ እሞ ናብኦም ኣረኪበዮ። ኣብ ሂወቱ ዝወርዶ ከምዘየለን ሓፈሻዊ ክገብሮ ዘለዎን ነጊረዮ። ክሰናበቲ ከሎ ዝገበረለይ ናይ “የቀንየለይ” ቃላትን ኣካላዊ ኣገላልጻን body expressions ኣይርሰዖን እየ። ኣዲኡ ርእዩ ብሰላም ተጣዪሱ ክኸውን እትስፎ።

    • haileTG

      ኣንታ ማሕሙድ፡ ከምዚ ናትካ humanity ዘለዎም ተጋደልቲ ቁሩብ እንተ ዝዛይዱ ነይሮም፡ ኤርትራን ኤርትራውያንን ኣበይ ምበጽሑ ነይሮም ኮን ይኾኑ? እዚ ክብል ከለኹ ኣብ ልዕሊ ህዝቦም ማለተይ እምበር ምስ ካላኦት ዘለዎም ምርድዳአ’ሲ ዝፈልጦ የብለይን። ንስኻ ነዚ ኣበበ ዘርኣኻዮ፡ ሰብኣዊነትን፡ ብጾትኩም ኣብ ልዕሊ ከም በዓል ዓንደ ሕሸልን፡ ሰበይቲን ደቅን ጂግና ስውእ ወዲ ዓሊ፡ ከምኡ እውን እብ ልዕሊ እቶም ኣብ ጎዳጉዲ ቀቢሮምዎም ዘለውን፡ ፍቆዶኡ ዛሕ ዛሕ ኢሉ ዝጠፍእ ዘሎ ህዝብና፡ ከምዘየለ ሸፋፊኖም ኣሽካዕላል ክነፍሑ፡ ንሃየንታ ዘብል ጭካነ ኣወዳዲርካ፡ ንጉድ ምባል ጥራይ እዩ። ዝተረፈ፡ እዝዩ ግሩም ኣቀራርባ ሓው ማሕሙድ።

      • Mahmud Saleh

        Haile TG:
        ሓቀኛ ዝኽሪ እያ። ኣብ ዓድና ዘሎ ግህሰት ፍትሒ እሞ መን ክኸላኸለሉ?

    • Haile Zeru

      That is so touching Mahmud. I wonder if you might have done the same, if the person was an ELF tegadalay.
      I am sure your answer is from what you know and realize now, today. But honestly with your knowledge and experience of that time could you have done the same thing???

      • Mahmud Saleh

        Salamat Haile Zeru;
        Could I have done the same to an ELF tegadalay? Why not Haile. Anyway, I was not near any situation where I could battle ELF; thanks God. I grew up in it, though, and I know how bad it is. I remember this episode which could answer your question: in 1981 Jabha was pushed pretty much o the west of Ruba Barka, there was a lull and the Sudanese where trying to have both sides negotiate the situation. I spent one day in Zara where the Field Hospital was and I saw some wounded ELF TEGADELTI. Most of the ELF tegadelti were resisting care and cursing the nurse/doctors. I remember one female ELF tegadelit, I don’t think she was wounded, but it was clear she was pregnant, who was really giving her female attendants bad time. She was so feisty, the doctors told the attendants not to talk to her. I saw her later, in 1987 or 1988 in Arareb Enda hzbi, where I was told she was one of the top administers. My friend who was with me in 1981 when she was captured happened to know her because they came from the same town and it was he who told me in 1987/88. But the reality of is such that you have to be capture at the right time and right place. For your information: I did not do anything special for Abebe; I just happened to have been relaxed and had time; because at this time of the battle, everything was crumbling for the Ethiopians.

        • Haile Zeru

          Mahmud,

          You said: “I did not do anything special for Abebe;”

          I think the following is what counts at those moments.

          “ምስ ኣበበ ሰላምታ ድሕሪ ምልውዋጥ ከምዝዛነን ፍርሒ ከምዘጉድልን ቅሩብ ፍትሕትሕን ፍስህስህን ክብሎ ነኣሽቱ ዕላላት ቀጸልና።”

          • Mahmud Saleh

            Haile Zeru: Thank you for noting that.

  • Hayat Adem

    To Semere A.,
    When you were addressing T. Kifle earlier, I noted your call for reasonable ppl like him to play a positive role in making Ethiopians understand that there was no support of Eritreans as a public, spiritually or materially, for the school to be bombed. You would be surprisingly refreshed to know ordinary women like Tewhaba Berhe of Tigray didn’t have a hating heart or word against Eritreans while she was holding her 4 year bombed child, wounded and lying in her arms. Even at such a moment great mothers like her speak to sanity. Read these words: “Helen, 4, was the second-youngest victim. Tonight
    she lay in critical condition in the local hospital, a bandage the size of an adult’s hand taped over the shrapnel wound in her abdomen. “I do not dislike the Eritrean people,” Tewhaba said over her only child’s labored breathing. “I dislike very much the people who planned to bomb us. I dislike war.” These are Tewhaba’s words as quoted and as reported by Karl Vick of Washington Post article under a title, “Civilian Attack Stuns Ethiopians”(June 8, 1998). If the mother of a bombed child could say those words, I’ve no worry at all because few uncultured spoilers bad mouthiness. That is not to mean we should allow them spraying their venom unchallenged. What it means is we should honor and build the future on such a spirit.
    Well, it bothers me a bit, when I read Sal much concerned that it should not be misunderstood as if the school was bombed intentionally without saying anything about the fact of the tragedy that it was it was bombed and children were killed. He had a 2nd chance to say something about it again when he was challenging T. Kifle to provide a link/evidence of Eritreans were indeed partying about the incidence as claimed. Well, the EECC said Ethiopia failed to prove that it was intentional. Intentional or not, it was bombed and 47 people killed. In fact, one way to trace that it couldn’t have been intentional is if there were many Eritrean elites that would jump to condemn it. It can’t be surprising if Ethiopians couldn’t buy that it might have been planned because 1) their kids are cluster bombed, 2) the school is clearly away of any military targets and it is in the middle of the two, 3) the bomber bombed the kids 1st and when parents were gathered to help it came back to the same spot from another direction and bombed the parents again, and 4) the bomber aircraft was being piloted by not by inexperienced pilot but the Eritrean air force commander, Habtezion Hadgu who nonsensically boasted about 1-100 exchange rate of lives.
    I want to make Tewhaba my heroine exit and I want to say to her loudly, “we love you, too”.

    • Saba

      Dear Hayat,
      I have not heard about Tewhaba Berhe, and now that i read it from your post, she is my heroine too, she did not hate people even in her difficult time. Can you learn from her to relate with victims of TPLF too?

      • Hayat Adem

        Dear Saba,
        Without a doubt. She is my inspiration for loving.

        • Saba

          Indeed an inspirational! I hope she is doing well.
          What do you suggest as a solution to the suffering of my Eritrean people under PFDJ?

          • Hayat Adem

            I have stated the two gravitational pulls of problems that we need to immediately confront a couple of times before, will repeat them here: militarization and isolation. The 1st one is solved by demobilization, the 2nd by normalization. Start speaking about and for both, right away.

    • saay7

      Selamat Hayat:

      The problem that you and, to some extent, Ermi has is this: because T.Kifle’s tone is measured and low-key, you have confused it with neutrality and objectivity. T.Kifle (whom I like a lot) is a partisan TPLF apologist and the proof is this:

      we Eritreans have reviewed our 30 year armed struggle and the 23 years of independence and have been cataloging our mistakes The continuum of cataloging our mistakes ranges from Nitricc (we made virtually none) to you, Hayat, which is to say YG’s viewpoint (everything about our revolution is wrong.)

      The TPLF has been around since 1975: it waged an armed struggle for 16 years and it has been governing (or been the core of the governing coalition) for 23 years. That is 39 years. When asked to cite a single mistake the TPLF has made in the last 39 years, T.Kifle says that they all range in the category of TPLF being too accomodating to EPLF. That’s it.

      By what definition is that the position of a reasonable, objective, neutral person?

      The Eritrea-Ethiopia border war raged on for 2 years. Many terrible things happened in those two years and the dead give-away of somebody who is not ready to reconcile is when s/he says, “yeah, we made mistakes but what you did is inexcusable.” Ask an Ethiopian and he will cite Ayder Elementary School; ask an Eritrean and he will mention the desecration of Eritrean cemeteries.

      This unilateral demand that only one side apologize and ask for forgiveness is disingenuous. It is dishonest. It is also, in my opinion, part of the TPLF-hardliners mission of wanting a New Eritrean, one who is extremely humble and malleable. I find it quite disturbing really.

      I expressed my horror at the bombing of Ayder Mekele Elementary school when it happened. My words at the time were something to the effect of “a Chief commanding officer may hesitate from outright apology as that has an effect on the morale of his fighters; but an Eritrean official must apologize for this horror.” (It was in Dehai; but Dehai’s postings for nearly all of 1998 and 1999 are, for whatever reason, unavailable. I am not talking about the Demarcation Page that has the featured articles, but the actual day-to-day discussions we are having then, like the forum discussions we are having now at awate.)

      T.Kifle’s (and other TPLF loyalists) campaign to present the “mainstream Eritrean” or the “elite Eritrean” as someone who was celebrating the bombing is dishonest. I don’t remember a SINGLE ERITREAN who celebrated the death and carnage of innocent children. I challenge anyone to find a SINGLE written piece that expressed joy or satisfaction that innocent children died.

      Reconciliation is a two-way street. And what EPRDF loyalists like T.Kifle do with the full co-operation of naive Eritreans who don’t know any better is to place the entire burden of the tragedy we endured on the PFDJ, even if it means that they have to trash mainstream Eritrea in the process. This can never be a formula for lasting peace.

      saay

      • Semere Andom

        Hi Sal:

        “The problem that you and, to some extent, Ermi and Semere Andom has is this….”
        I never debated TK. When he was debating you couple of times ago mentioned his biased. I hope this line is not ntentional, I will live by Saleh Gadi’s ruling 🙂

        Sem

        • saay7

          Hi Sem:

          Do rulings matter any more? If SGJ gives his ruling, I will just give you a five-point dialog piece and we can rehash it:)

          Let me clarify my point. TK, an able debater, has successfully changed the reference point for you and Ermi. I can’t give credit to TK for Hayat’s Weyanization; the Amharic expression እንኳን ዘንቦብሽ ድሮም ጤዛ ነሽ was invented for her.

          Here’s how TK shifted the reference point on you. If you use Ghedli as the reference point, one of the things we were proud of was that regardless of Janhoy’s and Derg’s insane policies of targeting innocent Eritreans, we never retaliated in kind. Therefore, it is inconceivable that we would deliberately bomb school children. Now, if you make Isaias your reference point, as you did, you disregard everything that Ghedli taught you (and it is easy for you to do that because you are a, um, a Ghedli-skeptic), and you work backwards from Isaias circa 1998 and say, yep, I believe he is capable of that and then, from that, you conclude that the EECC got it wrong and the bombing is deliberate. That’s how you got played; don’t feel bad, though, because TK is THAT good and when you are not grounded (like those of us Ghedli-romantics are) it is easy to float away.

          Notice now how Hayat has moved the goal post again. She is expressing shock (shock, I tell ya) that a head of state didn’t apologize for wrongdoing in time of war at the time it happened. She disregards George Bush’s reluctance to do that in Abu Ghreib; she disregards Meles Zenawi’s reluctance to express ANY remorse during the deportation (the infamous we can deport anybody for any reason even if it is for the color of their eyes.) Notice also that she has NOTHING to say about the desecration of Eritrean cemeteries of martyrs (which is, culturally–Ghedli culture, Eritrean culture–one of the worst things you can do.) She forgets that Eritrea’s Foreign Minister apologized for it (in real time) and the Ethiopian response for bombing deported Eritreans living in a UN tent was, as Eyob was kind to remind us, a muted one from an unnamed spokesperson.

          You add it all up and what you get is this: Meles and TPLF has never done anything wrong; Isaias and EPLF has never done anything right. Now, let’s make peace and meet half-way by which we mean we will be standing here and we want you to sprint over to us. This is the TPLF attitude not just to EPLF or PFDJ, but to the entire Ghedli veterans, their sympathizers, the Eritrean elite and now, as TK told us, the mainstream Eritrean. So, happy sprinting buddy:) Tell me how it works out for you guys:)

          saay

          • Saleh Johar

            Saay and Semere, please bring me on board please; what am I expected to rule on?
            Bzey mfsas neger fred do ybahal e’yu?

          • Semere Andom

            Saleh:
            Nice to hear from you, you were called on to rule on the following Sal made about your good friend Sem Andom: “The problem that you and, to some extent, Ermi and Semere Andom has is this..
            I wanted to know if my name was included intentionally on unintentionally and I chose you as an arbitrator. Sal is having the year of Semeres this year, like you had the year of Alis, so he may have confused the Semeres 🙂

          • Saleh Johar

            How about this Semere: on the one hand it could be intentional, on the other, it could be unintentional. I will read it and say my word if I feel it is important. In the meantime, “Weriduni gual qeshi!” is exactly how I am feeling.

          • Jo

            Selamat Saleh G.,

            Ha..ha!!! May be you don’t want to know Saleh!!:) “enda a boy Shambel zelo Egirgir….” zmesl ezineger:))

            Ciao!

          • Saleh Johar

            Jo! And you can count only one Shambel? There is a general and two shambels who were supposed to have been promoted to generals if not for the PFDJ. The general is generally fair, not on this one though. I might start a petition to demote him to a shambel 🙂

          • Jo

            Saelh G.,

            I guess he started keeping secrets (k- Kublil jemiru):), huh? Demotion is a blessing when you consider “midskal”.:)

          • Semere Andom

            Sal: you are killing me especially the logic in the second para
            I think I will second Aman about this debate, let is stop the “kuda” and instead dance the “tewedeb” 🙂
            This debate is not about Ghedli-skeptics vs Ghedli-grounded. What happened to Isaias changed argument? Even if I did not say it quite like you, but I wa making a point that we(the people of Eritrea) have nothing do with the crimes of isaiasists, our Ghedli has nothing to do with it, ok I will stop using PFDJ 😉
            I avoided using romantics for fear of careening to that debate, it has nothing to do with it, but now it was injected.
            A government that intentionally kills over 200 of its young in Asmara and not only intentionally kill but makes sure that Eritrean people know about the intentionality of the murder by tasking its minster to state openly in the middle of Asmara that they were a bunch of hooligans is capable of bombing school children recklessly. No evidence does not mean innocence you know this well. But DIA has been found not guilty.
            Are you saying since the Eritrean Ghedli never retaliated, (a fact that we are proud of and because of this no one called us as terrorist, except HS and derg) that DIA is also incapable of doing this because he is a product of Gheldi that never retaliated?
            I am going to be a romantic until I finish writing this: Ghedli never retaliated, but DIA hijacked Ghedli after 1991 and he got unhinged by every passing year and he recklessly murdered his own people and therefore he is capable to act in the same manner to other people, but since no evidence was found the school bombing has legally been determine to be accidental: No guilt verdict, but do not make mistake about it in the legal world No guilt does not mean innocence. I am no sure that TK has to do with this clarity o thought, I deserve and nominate Sem Andom to the axillary award of Great 🙂

            Sem

          • saay7

            Selamat Sem:

            Well, let’s see. As far as I know, Isaias doesn’t fly planes. So, let me set the proper context for you and then you tell me which of the two possibilities is the more likely:

            The context: Ethiopian Air Force was bombing the Asmara Airport. Its target was military: it is not its fault that we don’t have a Debre Zeit: our military planes are not too far from the civilian planes. It has a few sorties: some hit their target; some hit a few civilians; and one is downed. This use of planes was an escalation of the war: it resulted in Westerners (and our beles) scrambling to get out. And because most if not all of the pilots were Derg Era pilots (including Bezabeh), there was terror in Asmara. Meles was interviewed if his purpose for escalating it to use of planes was to disable Eritrean fighter planes or as a preparation for ground war, he said, “that’s a question that Isaias should answer. ”

            Possibility 1: Captain Habtezion Hadgu took off on his MIG and dropped his bombs, deliberately, on Ayder Elementary School. Then, after his first sortie, he came back and, again deliberately, dropped more bombs. This resulted in killing and injuring of dozens of school children.

            Possibility 2: Captain Habtezion Hadgu, a RELATIVELY inexperienced fighter pilot (notwithstanding that he was the captain of Eritrea’s Air Force, our squadron of 4 fighter planes and 2 helicopters) smarting from the humiliation of Asmara Airport being consistently bombed and Ethiopian Prime Minister talking like a man who has complete control of the skies, left off on a huff. He mistook Ayder Elementary School for a military target and the results were tragic.

            You have opted for Possibility 1: as far as EECC is concerned and its determination that Ethiopia hasn’t made its case that the bombing is deliberate is, to you, a case of the prosecutor (Ethiopia) screwing up and the defense (whom you accused of murder, which requires “intent”) got off on a technicality. Of course, this coincides with TK’s views which (surprise!) coincides with official EPRDF view which is why they demand the extradition of any Eritrean pilot who escapes to Djibouti.

            I believe it is the latter because the Eritrean Air Force had shown a consistent pattern of missing all of its targets during the war, a fact that Dagmawi (the Ethiopian answer to Dehai) used to have fun pointing out. I believe it is the latter because it would be stupid for a Chief Commanding Officer to commit war crimes (for which he would be personally accountable.) Your argument that if he treats his citizens one way he must treat foreigners the same way doesn’t stand up to scrutiny: what did he do with the Brits who, he claims, were on assassination mission? Weren’t they “pardoned”?

            saay

          • Saleh Johar

            Akh so! I suspect this is what I am supposed to rule on. I will not rule. But I believe what happened is “Possibility of 2.”

          • Semere Andom

            Saleh:
            You cannot rule on this because we do not have double jeopardy allowed here, trial was over and DIA has been found not guilty:-)

          • Saleh Johar

            Semere! Not found guilty! Can a judge appeal a ruling passed by an imposter? Definitely it there has to be one if capo-skunis is found not guilty

          • tafla

            T.Kifle declares that a teapot is, at this very moment, in orbit around the Sun between the Earth and Mars, and that because no one can prove him wrong, his claim is therefore a valid one.

          • Fanti Ghana

            Hello SAAY,
            It was tempting to say “yeah, JJ Simpson was also found not guilty,” but I changed my mind. I prefer to think of this as an accident. So, please put #2 next to my name.

            Abinet,
            don’t you dare say anything to me today!
            I saw how difficult it was going to be to pull SAAY up from the hole he is in, so I am going down there myself. Either I will bring him up with me or you will bury us both later.

          • T. Kifle

            Hi Sal,

            You know Arial targets are usually under the discretion of the commanded-in-chief. Capt. Habtezion couldn’t possibly got airborne on his own and drop bombs as he wish. The quality of the pilot(both in skill and courage ) determines how closer he is to his target. Now, you may argue that it wouldn’t be IA’s intention but it’s self-defeating to argue that the pilot mistook the school for military targets. Even if we accept that the pilot made a mistake due to his inexperience, there was no need from the president of Eritrea to go on air on the state tv stating that “Kuinat Higi yeblun”. This particular phrase came out of his mouth in a direct response to a question posed by a journalist why he did bomb school children. If it were not intentional he could have said so. If he didn’t acknowledge that that raid was inadvertent off-target slip, he is endorsing the mission by default. So however the EECC verdict support him he is morally responsible for the crime he approved by his insensitive rationalization of the issue. You are not saying anything on this particular point.

      • T. Kifle

        Dear Saleh,

        Part 1
        The intentional/unintentional argument

        In black and white characters, there is no way I can know the raid is un/intentional. I can only say this: The raid was done twice in a broad-day light in unmistakeably clear area. IA when asked why he raided school children retorted that “war has no rules” with no iota of regret on his face. They also did similar raid in Adigrat this time large cereal store with more than 10,000 tons of cereals turned to ash. He unmistakeably bulldozed Zalambessa into rubble(with much investment in fact). He didn’t target military establishments but used to drop the bombs wherever was possible. Taking the nature of IA in all aspects, therefore, I would prefer to believe that it was intentional. That doesn’t cloud my judgement to misconstrue that Eritreans (the people) are culpable for IA’s decisions and/or actions. I know more than that my friend. Even in democratic countries you know better than me that there are scenarios people would be ashamed by the decisions of their elected governments. So the simplest thing to do for a sensible human being is apologize for what has been caused in anyway-intentional or otherwise.

        • Asmerom

          Dear T.Kifle
          Saay supports everything and anything PFDJ did against Ethiopia and he even wants PFDJ intact without Isaias if change is going to come it is worthless to discuss with such kind of people for the good will and benefit of both people . I wonder when he says that you are firm supporter of TPLF forgetting that he is an iron supporter of PFDJ policies towards Ethiopia . In 1989-2000 he was a leading cheer leader in dehai but I guess he made U turn when the wind start to blow the other way . If this is not an opportunist stand I don’t know what

        • Abinet

          Ato kifle
          May be we have to redefine the words .accident is if something happens twice . Intentional is if it happens more than two times . How about that? As to me I don’t expect apologies . Only people with courage and good heart appologise.
          Thanks

        • Hope

          Why did you buldozed the Martyrs Cemetery and bombed intentionally the only Energy/Power source for the people of Asmara?

      • Ermias

        SAAY, if anyone can sway me by their writing styles, tone, etc. it would be you. There is no more prolific writer who supports every claim they make the way you do.

        I was saying TK is as objective as anyone because with the limited information that I have, I have never seen an EPLF/PFDJ official apologize for anything, certainly not sincerely. My statement was very measured and qualified. I also explained to Yodita that objectivity is relative and if there was a scale, T. Kifle would measure up with any EPLF/PFDJ insider.

        You, SAAY, are the people not EPLF/PFDJ and like I was saying if T. Kifle is throwing all of us into the PFDJ or EPLF basket, then I will call him out at every opportunity. The way I am kind of justifying his take is because even though he is not accurate, in the back of his mind, he is addressing EPLF/PFDJ when he speaks to anyone who doesn’t see him eye to eye.

        The other thing you need to consider SAAY is that why would TPLF apologize for anything? What would they gain? They have got everything they need. They have amputated their arch rival EPLF, they have broken the pride of the Eritrean people, they have taken complete control of Ethiopia by and large. So this unprecedented position they are in, they will milk it until the end of times.

      • Serray

        Selamat Sal,

        Why are you finding it difficult that isaias regime could be guilty of intentionally bombing an elementary school? This is a regime that tortures and kills as many innocent eritreans on a daily basis. This is a regime that keeps a prison system for profit where many perish if no one pays for them. By the way, the fact that I believe from the deepest of my heart isaias ignited the war and that he orders brigades, tanks and heavy artilleries to invade sleepy towns on the border at 5am in May 1998 for no other reason than to shelve a ratified constitution and rule eritrea the way he did the last 14 years, it is no stretch for me to believe that he personally ordered the bombing of school children. What I find extremely distasteful is T. kifle generalizing that we the people or even the elites have part in that.

        Sal, I am not like you; I don’t believe isaias or his regime have any salvageable value. My rejection of the regime is complete. If an albino accused a pfdj of rape and murder, I wouldn’t dispute it. For me the system is so corrupt and so brutal it is capable of anything. For 23 years I watched the regime upping the level of brutality against innocent victims to biblical proportion. Just because it rules eritrea and that some will mistake it for us the people is not a reason for me to jump and defend it. When people like T. kifle, who should know better make that stupid connection, my first reaction is, “how dare they equate my people with this inhuman regime” not look for an angle to even the score. For future reference, if any any human (or alien) accuses the regime of anything, anything at all, please don’t expect me to jump in its defense. Think of me this way, if the regime is standing on trail accused of any crime by anyone, I am ALWAYS, ALWAYS, on the side of its accusers. I don’t see the regime as eritrean or representing eritrea. My beef is with anyone, specially people like T. kifle, who try to equate this brutal parasite with my people.

        • Nitricc

          Serray when you hate your own blood brother; it is perfectly understood there is no human love or decency left in you. Even an army of cleaning crew will understand it. You are a monster so please stop saying my people. You left them to die when they need you the most. Yes you abandoned them tacking your tail between your legs when the braves marched to face the music. My people my foot.
          Have some shame. Please.

        • saay7

          Supreme Serray:

          I spent a lot of time in 1998-2000 arguing against people that the claims that both Eritrea and Ethiopia make that, during the war, their soldiers raped women was flat-out false as that is entirely incompatible with Eritrean and Ethiopian culture. Please note that I wasn’t just defending Eritrea then; I was also defending Ethiopia. One thing that EPLF and TPLF were credited for was highly-disciplined military and they conducted wars in accordance to rules of warfare. The EECC told me: WRONG and I was shocked and humbled.

          Similarly, now, for the same reasons (highly disciplined military), I don’t believe that either Eritrea or Ethiopia DELIBERATELY targeted civilians in the war. And if I am going to have my mind changed, it has to be by a source as authoritative as EECC. So, here’s where we are:

          Serray believes that it is not beyond TPLF and PFDJ to deliberately kill civilians;
          TK, Hayat (and Semere A?) believe that PFDJ deliberately killed civilians but TPLF didn’t
          saay believes that neither TPLF nor PFDJ deliberately killed civilians.

          Its not a matter of giving a credit to Isaias Afwerki (put me in the first row of Eritreans who considers 99.9% of Eritrea’s problems are attributed to him); it is a matter of giving credit to organizations and their military discipline.

          saay

          • dine

            dear saay,
            do you think NON TPLF , EPLF soldiers of ETHIOPIA and ERITREA raped women since the war was between ethiopia and eritrea?

          • Semere Andom

            Sal:
            Thanks for asking. Absolutely I believe that TPLF targeted civilians and deliberately so. You maybe confused with some of my comments from a year or two ago referring to TPLF as an organization that works to the best interest of its OWN people and it has made measurable advancements, unlike PFDJ which made measurable regression in everything in the last 23 years, I commented that TPLF visibly was lifting Tigrayans from a protracted destitution and so on.The debate was on the school bombing so I stayed on it.
            I think your writing of 1998-2000 was defending Eritrea and it is timely also people should remember your perfect timing for calling PFDJ a dictatorship, I am not flattering you because it was me who identified your immunity:-)
            I am not sure of Eritreans raping Ethiopians, but you are wrong about Ethiopians NOT raping Eritreans, yes they did.

          • Hayat Adem

            Selamat Sal,

            Amnesty International has an either-or term describe the act of the school bombing: intentional or indiscriminate. But on the side of the EPRDF, it said that there were civilian victims but AI didn’t think it was intentional. Read below:
            “Amnesty International’s conclusions and recommendations on the deliberate and indiscriminate bombing of civilians during the fighting between Ethiopia and Eritrea in May and June 1998 and since February 1999. Amnesty International urges Ethiopia and Eritrea to take active measures to ensure the protection of the civilian population in line with the fourth Geneva Convention and Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions. Amnesty International believes that there have been violations of international humanitarian law during this conflict, especially through the deliberate or indiscriminate targeting of civilians in air strikes against Mekele. Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions prohibits attacks on civilians and states that an indiscriminate attack is, amongst others, Amnesty International considers that Eritrea’s killing of civilians in the air attack on Mekele on 5 June 1998 was a serious violation of international humanitarian law. Amnesty International is calling on the Eritrean government to establish an independent and impartial public inquiry into the killings. The inquiry should especially review the Eritrean air force’s rules of engagement and operational guidelines for implementing the principle of distinction between military targets and civilians and should make recommendations to prevent unlawful killings…”
            Hayat

    • Amanuel Hidrat

      Selam Hayat,

      Why are people fond of scratching old wounds? Wars brings all kind of wounds, pains, and off course leaves with us scars. That is the result and the scourge of wars. The idea of debating on the border war must be aimed on how to heal our wounds and bring peace on the hurt victims. Otherwise what good will come out from scratching wounds except emotions and bitterness. Wars are evil by nature. Hayat, you are not helping us to mend the cracked bridge of both people, instead you are inciting grievances and bitterness. I really abhor what you are doing.

      Hawki,

      Amanuel Hidrat

      • T. Kifle

        Dear Aman,

        I sense hypersensitivity on this issue? believe me it will not take a day for the two peoples to come together if the legal and political hurdles are sorted out.

      • Hayat Adem

        Dearest Emma,
        I feel quite the other way. My note was about Tewhaba. What better way of mending a bridge could you bring than a mother of a bombed child being so clear-minded with her love words for the people and her distaste on the war and its planners? What more healing and powerful inspiration could you get than that? Sal still thinks it might have a risk for the commander in chief to apologize openly as it might hurt the moral of the fighters. I don’t know how Sal is still managing such words out. Where in the world is wrong for any leader to apologize if something terrible to that scale has happened. For a contrast, consider this Tewhaba. This woman thinks, even with a bombed child in her hands, it is still absolutely okay to speak of love for her Eritrean brothers and she was able to single out the war itself as the only thing to be hated. What a difference of attitude!

        • Jo

          Selamat Hayat,

          There is a lot of stories of mothers like that in Eritrea too. Why are you not asking your TPLF leaders to apologize for the crimes they committed against the Eritrean people? Goodwill is a two way street, if that is what you are asking. Otherwise stop being clever by trying to tap to our emotions. It is people like you and T.Kifle that are fanning the fire. We have heard horror stories all over, don’t try to own pain and suffering. We all were saddened and felt help less at what happened in that school, we all have been scarred by the hell that was unleashed by the TPLF too. You seem to get a kick out of these sad events. Do you want us to tell you stories of Eritrean mothers? Do you want us to tell you what exactly happened on those borders: no..no!!! no stories that was told by western journalists, but by real people who were there and have the physical and emotional scars to prove it? Do you want us to tell you horror stories of what people saw on the battle ground, the price people had to pay so that the likes of you and T.Kifle could earn a bragging right? Come on now!!! if you are hopping and trying to have the two people to come terms, I think, your approach is wrong. So, with all due respect, please spare us your half baked and one sided facts. Huffff!!! I didn’t mean to get worked up like that, but Having said all that, I think it is part of our history(of both sides) that we should not allow it to be repeated: we should study it and analize it so that we can neglect the bad events and to accept the goodwill towards each other as the mother you mentioned above and others like on our side of the border.

          Luwam zelewo meAlti!!!!

          • Abrham

            Dear Jo

            It is the same for all of us around the border. We have much more aside to Tewhabas. War is evil with no limitation to territories. A day will come that will turn us live in peaceful and with much brotherhood environment. Though I have a reminder, by TPLF you mean EoG I think,then EoG has already issued a statement of apology long before years.

    • Semere Andom

      Hi Hayat
      The intention of my comment was to address the following:
      The fact that the law exonerated PFDJ from the intentional allegation does not mean that PFDJ was innocent, meaning we cannot rule out that PFDJ’s action in bombing the school was not intentional
      To highlight the absurdity of the prudent PFDJ as proof of non-intentional as PFDJ is a serial offender in making blunders in taking actions that screws up Eritrea and Eritreans

      The annals of history has indelibly noted that the bombing was not intentional, PFDJ is responsible for their negligence and murder of the innocent kids and the Eritrean people has nothing to do with the crimes, in fact a group of Eritreans from the diaspora in 2009 visited the site/the moment, I am not sure and lay a wreath of flowers on behalf of the Eritrean people who are implicated in this crime that the court found accidental.
      TK has made the same point as you are making about how Ethiopians are cognizant of the un-mistaken difference between the tormentors, who committed the crimes and the innocent of Eritreans people. If I implied otherwise it was not intentional. Sal disturbed by TK’s belief that the bombing was intentional made a point of reconciliation so I was taking the point further. I did not know about Tewahba’s comments but the fact that the Tigranyans are not committing mass killing against the thousands of Eritreans in the refugee camps in revenge is a testament that the people are ahead and healthier than their perspective leaders.

      For me, the evil intentions of PFDJ against its own people is powerful enough not to buy non-intentional argument, the court ruled it was accidental and PFDJ is not guilty, but by no means innocent.

      And to the Nitriccs of this word, this comments in way exonerates TPLF’s crimes against our people. I have commented in several occasions TPLf’s crimes of collaborating with PFDJ to wrong our people, dampening the democratic yearning of our people and the mass deportation of 1998 and others pale in comparison to that colossal crime, when TPLF looked the other way while our business people and stellar children of Eritrea have been hunted down and killed under the blessing of TPLF jsut for dreaming. When their intense love affair ended they realized that their best interests are served well by allying with the Eritrean people, I hope they have learned from that myopia. My comments were addressed to TK, but it is just now that I have opened debate with him and I hope he will tell us his take and experience on that intentional crime that no court has found non intentional and no one will take it to court, but in the court of the hearts of the justice seeking Eritreans it was intentional.

      PFDJ supporters are known for partying in jubilation when all the nation and many part of the world was shell-shocked by Lampesuda tragedy, so there is no need for proof if it was jubilant as I have never heard of parting is sorrow. The point is gain, those are the few PFDJ supporters, who do not represent Eritreans but still we are tainted as the people who party when the country is mourning, we are all duty bound to rectify this perception instead of agonizing over the un-intentional nature of PFDJ’s bombing.

      Sem

      • T. Kifle

        Dear Semere A.

        I think we can make a deal with you. You are the kind of guy I want to see from Eritrea. But check if Saleh Y. is on board

        • Nitricc

          No thanks; fool me once shame on you; fool me twice sham on me. T-K and Semere are only good at talking and writing. Leave the deal; if any, to the owners of the matter.
          Tata …

        • Hope

          But where is your honesty and rationality though?Eritreans are ready at anytime for peaceful co-existence but you have been the major obstacle.obstacle. Sem is only a reflection of he Eritrean Majority.
          Sal is/has been on board but he has to apply his brain/reason/rationality and common sense when it is necessary.

      • Nitricc

        DUP

      • Nitricc

        Semere, what do you mean when you said
        “And to the Nitriccs of this word, this comments in way exonerates TPLF’s crimes against our people”
        What are you saying? What do I have to do between you and the Tigrayns? Why are you bringing me in to this? why?
        The only reason I resent to the Tigryan elites is ; the likes of T-K; because they are dishonest and I read the same dishonest on your replay to Hayat the Tigryan.
        Why not tell your real beef with TPLF? We all know your beef with weyane is not because the weyane wronged or deported the Eritrean people rather you are pissed at weyane because they cooperated with EPLF in eliminating ELF. Why are you deceiving them? it is okay tell them the truth.

        • Semere Andom

          Nitricc:
          Please read my coment as “And to the Nitriccs of this word, this comments in no way exonerates TPLF’s crimes against our people”
          And by the Nitriccs of this worked I am referring to Serray’s definition:-)
          Yes, I am not mad at TPLF for deporting Eritreans because they are sending us lost citizens, our role models are the Jews, who collected their scattered people from all over the world, so I am not mad at them and you should not be 😉
          They gave us about 70, 000 Eritreas, we should celebrate it, do you agree?

          • Hope

            But only to lose 4xthat number–as more than 300,000 fled Eritrea in less than 8 yrs–even in the worst conditions –so worse than that of 1998-1999.

          • Hope

            But do NOT tell me that the PFDJ is responsible for that—unless you have a major visual field problems

          • tes

            Dear Hope,

            PFDJ is responsible. What morning sun known fact are you trying to hide from. Be responsible my friend. Did you listen the recent interview of pilot Dejen? No way to bury the truth. PFDJ is responsible for every miser we faced, are facing and will face unless we end up this dictatorial regime in Asmara. Cool down and think like human being not like a demon or a vampire who lives by sucking the blood of innocent people.

            hawka
            tes

            Just for you (to remind you)

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23loBr_vc2Q&hd=1

          • Semere Andom

            Hi Tes:

            There are people like Hope, Nitricc who will never believe in the truth unless the regime goes after their families. It is also self-serving and nothing about the truth. Supporting any political thought is ones right, but supporting what goes on Eritrea after hearing the story of Dejen and many others is demonic. Dejen’s story is an average story as Saleh says when talking about what happened to his family.

            The hopes and the Nitriccs are not just anomaly, the world society is littered with these kind of people, and it is not just the Eritrean society. In East Germany they found that people where ratting about their neighbours to the authorities and sending people to death for crimes they never committed, so the Hopes and Nitriccs are here with us since time immoral, it is the tussle between the evil and the good, human beings are capable of both, but we are endowed with choices, we are not created to be robots.

            Hearing the stories of Dejen and Papayo and Bitweded makes you question if we were better off without the independence adding another regime to the pantheons of dictatorship that tortures humanity.

            The world history and future historians will study with amazement the mind boggling sacrifices, tenacity and bravery by the Eritrea people and at the same they will read and be shocked by the cowardice the same people showed, when they were brutalized, when their young were murdered in broad day light intentionally in Asmara and then to ante up the humiliation they were told that your kids were a bunch of hooligans. We should have a new slogan in our lexicon: to stand humiliation is also a sign of bravery. One people, two histories: of courage and cowardice. Reconcile that!

            The story of Dejen is an embodiment of what ails Eritrea and what was good about Eritrea. Out past-tense is good our present-tense is horrible and our future-tense will not depend on our current past but on our present because our present will be our past to the future.

          • haileTG

            Hey Sem,

            Great analysis, but one observation to make here is when you said “Hearing the stories of Dejen and Papayo and Bitweded makes you question if we were better off without the independence…”

            I would like to give a loose analogy to illustrate how I see this. A man and a woman, married to each other and have difficult marriage. Then again, they work very hard and purchase a family car. The car is a magic little thing that would make their lives easier in many ways imaginable. However, the husband beats up the wife inside the car during their trips together. Should the woman question:

            – if having a car was worth it at all or

            – if having an abuser for a husband was worth it at all. Because if she put her foot down and kick him out he would be handing over ownership of the family’s entire assets to her and banished from ever meeting the family because he would be charged with a crime and sent to prison.

            Some people unfortunately think that the purchasing the car and the hard work that went to be in that position was the culprit and the issue of the man can wait before receiving due consideration. Because, only if the woman raise her hand to even defend herself would be considered a civil war, his trouncing here day in and day out is simply necessary price for keeping and maintaining the car.

            Regards

      • Serray

        Selamat Semere,

        Excellent point on both counts. For some sadistic reason these two “liberation fronts” think we are their toys. When they are in love with each other, they search and destroy victims and when they are mad at each they search and destroy other victims. No matter where you stand, these blood stained people make a victim out of you depending whether they are french kissing or shooting at each other.

        On the bombing, I tend to believe both targeted innocent civilians intentionally; we are the pawns they want to make a point with. I wouldn’t be surprised if isaias personally ordered the bombing of the elementary school and went on drinking that night. By the same token, I wouldn’t be surprised if meles ordered civilian targets at the UN refugee camps and went to chew chat that night.

        This is not the first time T. kifle made this stupid generalization that we are somehow responsible for the actions of his on again, off again, comrades. Outside the eritrean regime supporters, the woyanes are the only people who believe shaebia is eritrea. It takes unbelievable arrogance to come to an eritrean opposition website and say the stupid thing he said. It is like accusing a holocaust survivor for not feeling sorry enough for Russian victims.

        No ethiopian and no eritrea should apologize for the crimes of these two “liberation fronts”.

        I see you are having fun with US army cleaning unit who thinks it is an eritrean. If you want to fry its 8 bit chip, ask it what tigray is. The army run out of space and left that part out so now it thinks they are stubborn debris.

        • T. Kifle

          Hi Serray,

          You said “No ethiopian and no eritrea should apologize for the crimes of these two “liberation fronts”.”, Who said Ethiopians and Eritreans should apologize? You suddenly appeared from your hidings and level false accusation at me. In any case my stand on the virtue of the masses is unshakable and I am not a kind of guy that bends to uninformed rants.

  • tes

    Dear Awatistas,

    I am having the more than 16 years insight history of the border conflict and its complication within two to three days. This is very good for the young generation and at the same time it is a lesson to understand how things can be complicated as history is a solution. History is very clear and has no mercy to anybody, to the writer, to the listener and to the one who will keep the record.

    But what is the issue here to open such recorded history and mostly well known to the debaters? {For me, I tell you, it is very helpful and I thank you all for having such grateful memories and sharing us the references.] I have one important lesson learned though beyond the history lectures. This debate is only helpful to the Ethiopians who are here engaging with us, especially the TPLF cadres or sympathizers.

    When I say it is helpful to TPLF I have a logical reasoning. TPLF did not finish their mission, mission of establishing the GREATER TIGRAY. Their dream was, is and will be to establish FREE AND INDEPENDENT TIGRAY. Still they are fighting for this and the revolution is not finished. As a result, they want to debate with the already INDEPENDENT Eritreans in order to restore the lost debate of SELF- determination. EPLF halted this dream and are not happy with.

    Then what?

    We have two options.

    A. To help them continue to fight for their:

    1. To come back to the years of 1980’s and debate on TPLF’s dream.
    2. To sympathize with engage with the cadres in order to enrich their logic.
    3. To accept them as neighbor country, not a region and open a dialogue with them.

    B. To consider them as Ethiopians and deal with them as our good neighbors.

    1. Dealing with any Ethiopian as Ethiopian not as TPLF cadre
    2. To leave history as history and consider what happened as Ethiopian history not as TPLF/Tigrian history.

    I think it good to deal with the second option, to see the big Ethiopia and avoid debating with the TPLF cadres/sympathizers. Doing this will it help us to deal country to country. Eritrea as Eritrea and Ethiopia as Ethiopia. Let the Ethiopians deal with TPLF/ Abay Tigray.

    We might have a definite line of dealing with ruling front in Ethiopia, but this is not helpful for us. It will only degrade our future perspective for country to country engagement. PFDJ is already working with DEMHIT and we are dealing again with same but the opposite face of the same coin.

    Saying this, my objective is let the historians come with what happened during the Ertro-Ethiopian war and learn from it and now lets deal with Ethiopians at political, economical and scoial level. may be the Tigrians could be terrified by the bombing of Mekele (I am not a great fun of Who-Did-What during war time, I believe war is war), but more than that we are already terrified by the Ethiopian day and night bombardment and aggression. Worse, now by the PFDJ RULING REGIME IN ASMARA.

    Let’s build a memorial status for war, a common one and one big museum of past war damages. And today, lets talk on PEACE nad DEVELOPMENT.

    iIf the Tigray people want free nation, let them do it, The Ethiopians will take-care of them. If they want to take our land, We know how to protect our territory in fact they will not do that now. But if they want to rule Ethiopia, let the Ethiopians deal with them.

    To conclude, lets not waste our energy to debate the border conflict history as it is solely Tigrian and PFDJ issue. It is Eritrean and Ethiopian government issue. the good thing is, the CASE is CLOSED issue. Just the ruling regimes are keeping the issue as it is in order to preserve their own advantage, PFDJ to continue his dictatorship and EPRDF may be to fulfil the CONSTITUTION OF Article 39, SELF-DETERMINATION and form Abay Tigray. Actually, the EPRDF is now very far and advanced from this issue and is very much aware on the advantage of staying as GRAND-ETHIOPIA.

    ECONOMY MATTERS and are well aware of the ONE-WORLD-ORDER. Economy shapes interest these time. As far as they strengthen their economy, staying separated will benefit no ONE. Unity matters. How about ERITREANS?

    Oh we were as a nation since 1890, just the Ethiopians wanted to keep the land under their control and we fough for it and WE GOT IT. And now, WE are Independent Country, but NOT FREE, NOT FROM THE ETHIOPIAN SIDE, BUT because of the DICTATOR that betrayed the DREAM we HAD, to have a country which is INDEPENDENT AND FREE OF any kind of oppression. Who did this? Who is going to be blamed for this? Ethiopians?

    No, no, no!

    PFDJ, the traitor, is responsible.

    What is the solution then?

    To “WEED-OUT PFDJ JUNTA” and Dismantle the System they build in the last 20 years. Lets form a government from the people, of the people, to the people!

    All best
    hawkum
    Tes

    • Saba

      Hi Tes,
      That is a good analysis and I am glad that you are able to attribute the responsibilities of all PLAYERS(PFDJ, TPLF etc). The “Abay Tigray” issue is important because sometimes dreams never die and the Abay tigray issue might resurface again in difficult times, as it did with Gebru Asrat and Siye abraha. I would like to hear from T. Kifle, his opinion about Abay Tigray(its origin, and why it disappeared and can it surface again). It is up to Tigreans to decide what they want but they should not drag us.
      I think you might qualify for the part time job you have requested in the clinic:) But it is becoming more competitive. Objectivity is the winner point, so you will be more competitive if you fulfill the following criteria (they are not all exclusionary but a plus point):
      1) You have Eritrea and Eritrean people at heart
      2) you do not belong to ELF/EPLF/PFDJ(you might be partisan sometimes)
      3) you despise the YG camp
      4) you do not support civil war
      5) you do not have PFDJ syndrome(This one might be your weakest point)

    • T. Kifle

      Dear Tes,

      1. First of all don’t assume that TPLF cadre is debating you here. If you are referring to me, I made it clear time and again that I am not even a member of TPLF since 1996. So you shouldn’t float over your high horse as if TPLF cadres are losing sleep over the politics of your country. If you want to know why I am here(I am not only here by the way) , well, to be frank the attractions are the great writers of Awate.com(You guess who they might be) . Irrespective of the difference in our views, I love them very much. I am here since this website gone online having a chance reading almost all of their articles, learned very much in the process and I have the feeling like I know them in person. That’s the beauty of the IT age. So no conspiracy theory is warranted here.

      2. The border issue is not my cake but those in the club of PFDJ and the proponents of the “third way” as they labour to use it as a stamp test of patriotism in their effort of bashing the Eritrean Opposition. There is nothing left for me to discuss about the border. The ping-pong we made here and there are urges of natural emotions of wanting to be heard and understood nothing more nothing less.

      3. Your other assumption really makes you an oxymoron when you talk of “ABAY TIGRAY” that has never been in the agenda of Tigreans at any point in time. I regret to tell you that “independent Tigray” and “ABAY Tigray” are quite different matters and if you were informed you wouldn’t have got loose on it. Things are much deeper than you would like them to be. I give my unsolicited advice to tone down and humble yourself with more substance and less noise for your benefit.

      TK

      • tes

        Dear T.Kifle

        I was safe to say that TPLF sympathizers/cadres and feel free if you are either too. In fact I admire all awatistas including you of course, if you were not here, may be the flow of ideas and debate could not be as we see now. Your high level of intellectual contribution is good for all of us.

        What I am saying here is, lets not dig history and try to search the loopholes. These loopholes might widen the gap of the two people and hence is between the governments. Let history deal with it. If we are writing history, then, I thanked you even for that. I am from the young generation of PFDJ victim.

        In the other hand, what I see is your solid knowledge of the TPLF politics, in deed you are. Leaving the front in 1996 will not make you totally free of the TPLF way of life. whether it is ABAY Tigray or FREE Tigray, it is word politics. Let it be like that, for the dream, call it Free Tigray or we call it Abay Tigray will have almost the same impact. Of course, for us, it is DREAM OF GRAND Tigray.

        To tell you, I read a book titled, Hilmi Abay Tigray, written by Ethiopian news media (I think? -correct me if I am mistaken) after a TPLF cadre defected from the front in 1980s and made an extensive interview with Ethiopian news media(at that time under Derg regime), in August 1998. To tell you how I got that book, I had a friend that I came to know him after spending 45 days in summer student campaign. The friend was son of PFDJ’s officer. I spent one night in their house and he gave me that book to read. I finished with in one night. Whether that book was propaganda or not, it has left a word that also continued to hear continuously then after.

        Therefore, I am not into that much detailed about TPLF, except the PFDJ propaganda. Though, it is of little importance to me to know about the TPLF history in this FORUM (I am saying here, in awate forum), I am learning big lessons.

        then what?

        As Ethiopian, let’s develop mutual common present and future understanding.I hope you will are free by now from the dialectical historical approach in dealing with things. If you are FREE, CONTINUE to create HARMONY between the two people (Eritrea and Ethiopia – don’t expect me to say Tigray people, I am speaking country to country.

        I say you, hawka, your brother, you know what I mean.

        hawka
        tes

        • Saba

          Hi Tes, is that Abraham yayeh or taye and another guy, i do not remember the name, but i used to hear them in the radio during the Derg time.

          • tes

            Dear Saba habtey

            Thank you though I can’t remember the name exactly. But yes, you have a good memory.

            For the part-time, oh, too much requirements. I better drop it. I will just have coffee time with you. I hate to be employed. (…you know what I mean…)

            Thank you.

        • saay7

          Selamat Tes:

          The year it was founded, 1975, the TPLF wrote its manifesto.

          Unlike the Eritrean fronts, which had described their cause as “anti-colonial” (with the colonizer being Ethiopia, the TPLF struggled with who and what it was. Was it going to fight for Tigray secession? Was it going to be the vanguard movement leading Ethiopia’s democratization?

          It came up with the worst possible answer: that it was fighting for the Tigrinya nation state, and the Tigrinya nation-state incorporated all Tigrinya-speaking people (Tigray and highland Eritrea.) This was greeted with alarm by the EPLF. TPLF doubled down and said the Tigray nation state owes its precedence to the reign of Yohannes IV: this was stunning to the EPLF because Yohannes IV was the first Ethiopian king in modern times to make clear claims on parts of Eritrea, a claim that his general, Ras Alula, brought to life in his reign.

          You can read more about this in Richard Reid’s: “Old Problems in New Conflicts: Some Observations on Eritrea and Its Relations with Tigray: From Liberation Struggle to Inter-State War.”

          Here’s the defining quote that, for whatever reason, mystifies people who, year after year, keep wondering why the TPLF insists on nurturing ethnic-based Eritrean opposition groups and keeps at arms length the nationalists organizations: “The movement [TPLF] seemed to be articulating the idea that a multi-ethnic’ organisation was unrealistic and that separate peoples should fight their own wars of liberation.”

          saay

          • dine

            hi saay,
            if Tigrinya nation state is the real intention of tplf ,why you think TPLF allowed the referendum to take place?

          • saay7

            Hey dine:

            You missed my point. Every time people talk about Greater Tigray, TK makes absolute declarations that it never happened, it is all in the head of Eritreans, all imagined. And I am saying, well, no, history says otherwise.

            The TPLF’s thinking has evolved over the years but the one constant is that for a movement to be a cohesive unit, it must be of same ethnicity/language group. This is how it create the ethnic federal state. This may be the PERFECT answer for Ethiopia, given its history and make-up; where TPLF makes the mistake is in insisting that it is THE solution for Eritrea.

            As for TPLF “allowing” referendum in 1993, there were two reasons: (a) it wasn’t in a position to do anything about it then, busy as it was just stabilizing Ethiopia and (b) it believes (at least Meles believed) that the Eritreans can have their little fling but they will come back to Emama Ethiopia, a belief indulged by Isaias Afwerki who, on the eve of Eritrea’s referendum, was saying that he doesn’t rule out co-federation with Ethiopia.

            saay

          • dine

            Hey Saay
            since eritrea has been part of ethiopia by the time i don’t see the mistake in insisting the solution for eritrea too but do u still think TPLF has hidden agenda to make it happen to this days after the Independence ?
            As for PIA i don’t think HE genuinely believe for a minute co-federation with Ethiopia. it’s just part of his economy policy(look at his hate) but PMMZ knows from the beginning that EPLF is fighting against eritrean people interest and he also know he has to respect the will of the people because there is/was NO other solution for it, as i understand in 1990 PMMZ interview .

          • tes

            Dear Saay,

            Thank you as usual. You are my honored teacher. And I will read the book you recommended me hopefully when I get it.

            hawka
            tes

      • dine

        Dear T.kifle,
        can you explain for me what do you mean by ”independent tigray”?

        • T. Kifle

          Hi dine,

          1. You see, few months into the start of the armed struggle(1968 E.C) , feeling cornered and hopeless due to the unremitting provocations from EPRP and EDU and other factors, the TPLF leadership of the time released a manifesto claiming it would fight for an independent Tigray(probably to urge the other parties to leave Tigray and establish their strongholds in other part of the country and get a relief ). This manifesto stayed active for 6 months. But that manifesto had been meted out by fierce criticism from with in and without and the leadership bent for the call and corrected the manifesto. The leadership also criticised itself for entertaining such narrow dispositions and moved on. Apart from that 6 old declaration, TPLF never questioned the struggle for a unified Ethiopia. That old foible is still a hot cake in the minds of many restless-nationalists in both countries

          2. The Abay Tigray agenda had never been an issue of Tigray. I learned lately that there were people who wished to unify the Tigrigna speaking people of both Tigray and Eritrea may be 100 or 50 years back. But to the best of my knowledge, “Abay Tigray” even didn’t appear as phrase in any of the voluminous books TPLF had written in the field. But I see many Eritreans blow the catch word to buttress their false claim that TPLF has/had an agenda of creating “Greater Tigray” and attribute the border-war as a symptom of expansionism. It calls the common adage ጭጉራፍስ ባዕላ ወቒዓ ተእዊ (ጅራፍ ራሱን ገርፎ ይጮሃል). That’s why this Tes is simply throwing something that remotely heard is being said somewhere and he is suggesting me to read a book by Abraham Yayeh and revise my position. If you are interested you may kindly read article written by me sowhere in 2013 regarding the “abay tigray”
          http://www.tigraionline.com/articles/abay-tigray-tplf-eritrean.html

          regards

          • tes

            Dear T. Kifle,

            I am not neither in debate with you nor meant to blush you at all. I told you that all my belief is country to country negotiation. And, I see Ethiopia as Ethiopia. I have never entertained the idea of Abay Tigray and I will never too. It is a dead issue. But, I am not speaking out of no where. I read about it, with all the maps and the round table negotiations. When I referred my first read about this idea was in 1998, just after the first border war. Then after, it has been 16 years to listen, read and propagated about the manifesto. The good thing is, even you didn’t deny about the existence of this dream. You wrote in one of your response in the article you shared like this;

            “Teweldebrhan Kifle,

            I believe TPLF’s agenda was to create Abay
            Tigray to begin with. Tigray cannot survive on its own. They can try it
            and see what happens. I don’t think they will have tigreans’ support. At
            the same time, I also believe that we, humans, make mistakes. It is OK
            to make mistakes but it is not OK to deny it. Be a man and say it. Yes
            TPLF’s original manifesto was to create Abay Tigray and Amhara is enemy
            of Tigray and to accomplish their goal they have to destroy every
            Amharas. This is sick. In any regime, only the elites have benefited,
            not the Amharas. Amharas suffered equally as their tigrean brothers.
            Some amharas and tigreans alike have benefited from the past regime. So,
            to call out the entire race as criminals is very wrong. That is what
            the TPLF is doing. Inconclusion, Abay Tigray can never materialize and
            it has been abandoned long ago. The TPLFites should acknowledge that
            they wrote this manifesto and admit that it was wrong. Then we can all
            move on.

            more than this, I will not go.

            i respect people’s question, what ever it is. But respect does not mean accepting. I rebufff when it is crossing my territories.

            Dear T.Kifle, you are well informed writer, commenter and cadre. Let me not say you TPLF cadre, but you are a cadre. Cadre is one who has of your quality. If you are not, then no one was, is and will be. To whom you belong, let you know yourself. As for me, your way is enough.

            DEAR T.Kifle, I have great respect for you and all Ethiopians who are here with us. No matter what your stand is. One thing though, don’t try to drag us to the MINORITY mind. Let’s speak about the two people (Eritreans and Ethiopians). Only if we do so we will be uplifted into a round-table negotiation. If you are dealing with an INDEPENDENT Tigray agenda, let you with it with Ethiopians. We are not helpful with for this, better PFDJ will do that (Arming Ethiopian opposition group is good enough to sideline with whom).

            Therefore, dear T.Kifle, let’s close the gap that exist between the two people. If we do so, we will fulfill the dreams of the people, not the ruling regimes. the people are much better informed about PEACE and PROSPERITY and they can achieve it only when the misconceived ideas are aired not buried. Doing this, the people will get a chance to oppose it or embarass it. It was not only the Abay Tigray manifesto, even, the We and our objectives pf EPLF (Nihnan elamanan) was a big mistake in today’s Horn African history. The two have a far reaching consequence and they will continue to influence the politics unless we consciously tackle them.

            With all due respect

            Hawka
            tes

          • T. Kifle

            Dear Tes,

            Are you OK? what is that you put under the quote? it’s not mine. it’s somebody’s comment under my article. what is going on here?
            can’t we have an honest debate based on facts?please correct this since it’s an insult to the intelligence of Awatistas.

            please correct this misquote for your credibility. I cannot opt for a dream that never was. You bring an evidence based on our writings or utterances in anyway during our armed struggle, any time before that. As a matter of fact, as I have learned it later, this “Abay Tigray” was an agenda of some Eritreans. do your homework and wise up yourself. If you are not interested in the subject, you shouldn’t start it to begin with.

          • tes

            Dear T. Kifle,

            ok, I was out. Let me remove then.

            hawka
            tes

          • tes

            Dear T. Kifle,

            ok, I was out. Let me remove then, but correct me the name difference first.

            hawka
            tes

          • dine

            thank you.

    • Dear tes,

      Whenever Eritreans speak of TPLF and especially of the people of Tigray, they had better see them as Ethiopians, because it will help them a lot in their approach to people south of the Mereb. If the concept of independent greater Tigray was in their mind once upon a time, because they felt condescended, oppressed and forgotten by past Ethiopian rulers, it is no more the case. Everything has its own time and place, and be sure, the present and the future are not the times for Abay Tigray. Tigrayans have drawn their conclusions on secession from lessons learnt from countries around them.

      There are times when some Eritreans entertain the unity of the Tigrigna speaking peoples of Tigray and Eritrea, notwithstanding the many problems in their relations. I am sure that Tigrayans have a clear stand on this, because they know very well when to avoid standing between a rock and a hard place. This scenario does not seem to be an attractive one to them, for there is nothing Tigrayans would gain by going with Eritrea. Moving from a bigger economy to a smaller one, and allowing themselves to be won by a common language and common culture as the only criteria that bind them with those north of the Mereb, while historical facts speak of frictions and recriminations, it is equivalent to saying that the people of
      Tigray do not understand where their interests lie.

      In addition, one should have in mind the present day bonds among Ethiopians, as opposed to factors that separate them. Mega developmental projects like hydroelectric dams and universities that are mushrooming all over the country, railways, express highways, airports etc, are going to tie them together than separate them. All Ethiopian ethnic groups, and among them Tigrayans, are surrendering to these forces of development, and there is no reason at all for an Abay Tigray scenario. The few who are stuck in the ideologies of the 60s and 70s, and have completely forgotten the present globalized world, do not have many followers.

      We should understand that Tigrayans are Ethiopians, historically, politically, economically etc. Their fate is tied to the fate of all Ethiopians, and therefore, it is better that discussions are carried out on a country to country level, rather than between Eritrea and one Ethiopian ethnic group.

      The discussions that have been taking place over the last few days show that not only Eritreans and Tigrayans/Ethiopians are still worlds apart, but worse still, the few bridges that are still connecting them are being blown to pieces. The sour feeling spewed by some is unbelievable, although the issues that are
      discussed are above their capabilities to prove or disprove them, and solve or change them. By trying to win a debate, or prove their patriotism, some people become irrational, and this is not helping at all.

      • ሃገረ ኤርትራ دولة إرتريا

        Dear Horizon,
        We have always said the best kind of relationship Tigray and Eritrea can have — from an Eritrean’s perspective — is to have no relationship at all. Frankly, the Eritrean people neither like nor trust the Tigrayans. It’s just a fact. It goes back to our forefathers. “Libi Tigray Tiwiyway” or “Crooked like a Tigrayan’s heart” is an expression that I am sure you have heard. We don’t like you and we don’t trust you. Nor do we respect your basic attributes of duplicity, jealousy, treachery and inferiority complex. I am really glad that you have become Ethiopia’s problem instead of our problem.

        • Dear ሃገረ ኤርትራ,

          Let us say that it is not some sort of anger you are venting and you really believe all you said about Tigrayans/Ethiopians. Nevertheless, slamming you door closed and declaring that you are going to have nothing to do with them is not really an answer, as long as the situation is going to remain the same as the result of which people are suffering, and will continue to suffer in the foreseeable future.

          Leave us alone, get the hell out of Badme – demarcate the border, are slogans that have been tried and have failed. Unfortunately, everybody is going to stick to his/her position; what then?

          About 100K Eritrean refugees are staying in Tigray and more than 1000 are studying in Ethiopian universities, a right the regime in Asmara has deprived them. The number of refugees is going to grow year by year. Lately, it seems that these refugees are fed up of the limbo in which they have found themselves, and they are thinking of facing their nemesis. This might/might not create ripples over the calm waters in Asmara, and if it is going to lead somewhere, remains to be seen.

          Anger and denial are weaknesses, and they are not going to solve the problems of the people or bring peace. Eritreans are in need of some sort of solution immediately to get out of their predicament, and this should be followed by a long lasting
          peace in the future. Therefore, we need calm and sane minds to do the job, and not some sort of temper tantrum, which makes us irrational.

  • Nitricc

    I have read all takes of the Tigryans. I yell you, they don’t have a shred of honesty. The biggest clue to conflict between Eritrea and Tigray is the exchange of letters between PIA and the dead dictator. Yet, no one mentions that. Even the seasoned TPLF cadre, TK. Or the file and rank Hayat. Everything is Eritrea fault.
    I am amazed the tigryans hate they have for Eritrea and Eritreans.
    Well we don’t have live to gather I wish you good luck with your Oromo and Amhara, so, There is no need for that much hate towards Eritreans
    I suggest learn how to put up fence from the Isreal. I don’t see any positive

    • Fanti Ghana

      Nitricc,
      Here is the story I promised it will make you ashamed and proud at same time.
      My Cousin (I will call her Sara) is in her mid 20s, very articulate, and fast talker.

      One day while having coffee with friends and neighbors, I asked her mother why
      they moved here (Tigray) when they did. Pointing at her daughter Sara, she
      tells me “all her friends left town for Sawa, and she got depressed.” I sensed
      some sarcasm in the quick way she said it, so, I looked around all the faces in
      the room expecting some sort of rebuttal. Sure enough, Sara defended her honor:
      “We came when we did because our father was getting very old, and he was the
      only one who knew all of our families back here. I knew that if he dies while
      we are still in Asmara, we will never leave.”

      I kept poking at the subject wondering when my horror story was coming.
      Nothing! In fact, the story kept getting better and better in its positive
      direction including her mother bringing more facts about when the “let’s go” intensified:
      “ayi, mendo mendo Sawa mskede-endiKhi nKhid nKhid zebzaHki” sort of proof.
      Meanwhile I noticed my other cousin, Sara’s older sister, were quiet during all
      that, so I tried to get her opinion too. She quietly ruled in her sister’s
      favor, and all was quiet. After lunch and after all the guests and neighbors
      left I asked, point blank, were they abused by friends, neighbors, or the
      government in any way? In unison, they all shouted NO! What a relief that was.

      They wouldn’t stop telling me stories like how the neighbors raised money
      to prepare food for them and to help them with their new start up in Tigray,
      and on and on. Sara had the last word before our conversation sprawled all over
      the place. After expertly detailing Eritrea’s ordeal in the last 60 or so
      years, and finally referring to the people-to-people relationship she added
      “we are hopeful things will be okay once the politicians come to their
      senses.”

      The general theme I felt when I was in Ethiopia last year was similar to
      Sara’s last sentence. Everyone I talked to seemed to be very courteous and
      reserved in their statement regarding Eritreans. “gize kefieumber ayeHwatndina,
      zeyHalf yelen izuywun keHalf iyu” and similar phrases were what I mostly heard.

      Well, Nitricc, feel proud because most Eritreans haven’t lost their decency
      even under these circumstances, but you should feel ashamed of yourself for all
      the things you say about Tigreans, although, most of them have no ill will
      toward you.

      I hope you were not bored.

      • Nitricc

        @ Finta Ghana. Good story and thanks for sharing.
        First of all you did not offend me at all. In fact, I like your takes; they are fresh, reasonable and respectful. I mean it; if follow my posting I don’t kiss up to no one; I tell as is. So, hear me out.
        It is the out most advantage and benefit Ethiopia and Eritrean people to live in peace and harmony in general and with Tiryans in particular. I understand the similarity of culture; language and the blood through marriages and all that. No one can deny this fact unless your name is T-Kifle.
        If we to burry the hatchet and to make peaceful coexistence; then, we got to dialogue with absolute honesty. What T-Kifle and his lost soul followers are doing is not going to help. I will tell you this, every one can talk and have opinion but we are the once who carries the burden of this two people to live in peace and harmony. In some cases those two people have no choice but to burry the hatchet and reconcile. But how is possible to reconcile with people like T-Kifle? Reconciliation needs honesty, facing head on to the root cause of the matter. The Tigryans better get rid of their victim mentality; they better get out their head that the idea of Eritreans thinks better than the Tigryans. No Eritrean is better than any Tigryan. But if don’t admit your wrong doing and short comings; we can not do anything. I did not say any bad things about the people of Tigray; I have the out most respect. What I have no respect is with the Tigryans who are writing in here and insulting Eritrean. We are happy for you that your economy is good, you are developing and all that; fine, but why insult the people of Eritrea?
        I respect the people of Tigray; what I can not stand is some deceitful cadre of TPLF.

    • dine

      it is good that u show love in a twisted way. we making progress.

  • Hayat Adem

    Ethiopia declared full war? Really? Can you please check your facts?
    To my knowledge, the Ethiopian parliament only stated that Eritrea must stop its provocative aggression and Eritrean forces must withdraw from the northwestern* parts they occupied immediately and without preconditions, and settle its issues on a round table, or otherwise Ethiopia will have to defend its sovereignty. That was exactly the message (not exact quote) they put out. This was after PMMZ had tried several calls for days to reach PIA, and the only officials he was left with to talk to were Monkey and G. Asmerom- by design, of course. Is this what you guys are calling “declaration of full war” by Ethiopia? How else would a country that beleived it was invaded by unsuspected friend react? Declaration of full war to me would mean, if they were telling their people and the entire world that they were marching right away not just to evict the occupying forces but for a total country wide war on Eritrea. But, not even close to that. They didn’t even say they were going to shoot. The statement was about warning Eritrea to move back before things go out of control. If a stranger is in your house by force, and you strongly warned him to get out or else you would employ all tools to make him leave, is the stranger entitled to cry foul? Is it too much for the victim to ask the aggressor to leave or else it would defend itself? Let us not be strangers to fairness and reason, please!
    —-
    * A well informed person told me that Ethiopians didn’t even want to specify the areas first that were invaded just to give the Eritrean government a face-saving window to do the right thing.

  • Fanti Ghana

    Hey Everyone,
    Does anyone know any more detail about this story: Eritrean Refugees in Ethiopia Vow to Join Armed Struggle?
    http://allafrica.com/stories/201405220099.html

    I also would like to know if this is something you would support. Thank you.

  • Amde

    Well dawit,

    consider me officially jealous. My parents did not
    think qes timihirt important, but once I became an adult there have been
    many times I have thought it would have been nice. I have a pet theory
    that Kew timihirt by itself is a very rigorous mental discipline tool,
    and the curriculum is the basis of the Abesha classics (perhaps much
    like the Roman Trivium). Perhaps in the future I can explore it. I
    hope you appreciate it now, as well as Aleka Asnake. He is probably a
    dying breed – just a generation or two before his type start
    disappearing.

    I am not sure I agree with your theory. It is
    perhaps more a case of “be ij yeyazut werq ke medab yiqoTeral”. But
    since I have no theory of mine, I will file yours away and mull it over.

    But thank you for sharing – that was wonderful.

    amde

    • dawit

      Well Amde,
      I have valued my kis timihirt bet experience highly, that gave me my foundation and character. I always admire Yeneta Asnake, until very recently he was one of the people in my list to visit. Speaking of discipline, I remember every morning we started the day by prayer ‘ Abune Zesemaiat’ ኣቡነ ወዘሰኣያት and ended the day with the same prayer. When we arrive to school we kissed his feet and at the end of the day we did the same thing. Some of the things that I still remember our songs ‘በኛ ጉሮሮ ቀለም ይንቆርቆር በየነታ ጉሮሮ ጠጅ ይንቆርቆር” “እክብር እበከ ዎኣምከ ወገጸ እረጋዊ” ዓሳ ጎርጉሪ ዘንዶ ያወጣል የሰው ፈላጊ የራሱን ያጣል። Those values were
      implanted by Yeneta in my mind at my early voyage in life.

      Speking of Ethiopian education, even though Haile Selassie deserves a lot of credit for introducing modern education in Ethiopia, he somehow neglected the traditional church education unlike Europeans education where we were copying had integrated it. Many great universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Yale Colombia, etc had their foundation in the church education. Many early thinkers in Science and Economics, Mendel, Malthus were product of the church. Our education system would have produced educated people with firm foundation that was relevant to our local condition. Our Debteras could have been great discoveries in science and technology, but you said bj yeyazut worq aydemk. So the king pushed European education without its Habesha foundation.
      I can sense from your writings and argument here at Awate Forum. You are mainly interested only to win your argument by any means, whether your arguments make sense morally or not. Many of us lost that moral campus of our tradition and we are floating in any direction where the wind blows. We pick an idea from the East or West and we go with it till we end up in a ditch. Sad but that is our reality going from one crisis to the next without an end in sight.

      Peace

      Dawit.

      • Amde

        Hi Dawit,

        I sign on with both hands with what you said about Haile Sellasie’s choice of education policy. I think it ended up destroying him as well, and ushered in a destructive era.

        I obviously don’t agree with your characterization of my arguments here. but I do admit sometimes I can get impatient with what seem to me to be untenable arguments. I hate much of what has occurred from the leftist era, so in that sense, I find hard to accept any adulation of personalities or organizations or hyper nationalistic arguments. I hope you can see my argumentation in that light. I am probably the resident right-of-center conservative (not as conservative as Saay I think ;-).

        But I thank you for the post and for what you shared. I will truly treasure it honestly.

        amde

        • saay7

          hey amde:

          I think Eyobai may be further right: his rants against poor Soros are on par with any blog you find on Red State or The Blaze 🙂

          saay

          • Amde

            Hey Saay,

            Now I can truly tell you that I have never expected to see the words “Eyob” and “Soros” in the same sentence on Awate. Since I can’t really visit Awate while I’m on my 9 to 5, I have resigned myslef to missing much of the conversation that happens, so I have not seen any of those references.

            And of course, everybody knows Soros destroyed the pound. That is why the Queen will have to pay to have her own palace renovated. What he has against that poor woman – I don’t know.

            amde

          • saay7

            Selamat Amde:

            Eyobai’s logic goes something like this:

            1. Every independent journalist/blogger* in Ethiopia is funded by Soros;
            2. Soros is an anarchist;
            3. Therefore every independent journalist/blogger in Ethiopia is a terrorist.

            I am simplifying it a bit, but not by much.

            saay

            * Eyob also told us the Amharic word for blogger. Those moments are some of the very few reasons we tolerate Eyobai here:)

  • Amde

    Weyane apologizes too damn much not to hurt Eritrean feelings. It’s embarrassing.

    It should be pounding the table for the compensation of the Ethiopians deported in 1991 and then 1998.

    Addis Ababa is awash with Eritrean returnees who are getting much of their property back, but there is not a peep about the Ethiopians.

    • T. Kifle

      Dear Amde,
      Justice, I think, is not necessarily reciprocal. And if that is, it would make it a favour-which inherently is not. Let them reclaim their properties which nobody snatched them to begin with.

      regards

    • Saba

      Dear Amde,
      If i understand it correctly, you guys are saying that PFDJ should apologize while TPLF should not.
      But i believe both governments should apologize to the respective people and compensate whenever possible.
      Peace!

  • Saba

    Dear T. Kifle

    Below is a timeline on how the war started. Can you please debunk them if you think they are wrong?(other than saying it is IA’s brainwashing stuff). As you described the Ethiopians were not prepared for a war but neither the Eritreans too. On both sides there were people who wanted confrontation but mainly from tigray like Gebru asrat and siye abraha. It started as a series of skirmishes. The mishandling by eritrean side was that they have not notified UN of TPLF aggression, while TPLF was clever in that they notified UN and hence the UN believed the TPLF version. The mishandling by TPLF side was that they declared a full scale war, PMMZ had to choose between controlling Ethiopia(if not he will lose to siye abraha and others) and resolving the conflict peacefully. It was ironic that PMMZ privately wanted to make a deal with IA while publicly declaring full scale war to appease the siye’s and others. IA as stubborn as he is, he felt betrayed. Here you go, it went from skirmishes to full scale war.

    Here is the wrongdoing of TPLF:
    1. they should have controlled they Siye’s and others
    2. they should not declare a full scale war
    It is interesting that the Ethiopians wanted to start the war just because they did not like eritrean economic policies? If you do not like the economic policy of a country, you can stop the ddiplomatic relationship but you do not start a war because of it.

    Here is the time line summarized

    July 18-19, 1997
    “Three truckloads of Ethiopian troops entered the Badme area and planted radio communications equipment. Eritrean territory inside the “unilaterally demarcated” area was, thus, put under patrol.

    July 24, 1997
    Ethiopian administrators instructed the Eritrean administrators to disband– they were taking over. They declared Adi Murug Ethiopian territory and appointed their own administrative committee.

    August 8, 1997
    Two Eritrean officials traveled to Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, to discuss the matter with their counterparts in Ethiopia. They tried to register their protest on what was happening at Adi Murug and in Badme and that it was inconsistent with the friendly relationship between the two sides. They argued that using force to create facts on the ground was not acceptable. They also asked that the Ethiopian government reverse the steps it had taken. Any outstanding matters, they maintained, could be handled in a spirit of understanding and taking the welfare of the border population
    into consideration

    October 17, 1997

    Weyin, the official organ of the TPLF, printed a new map of Tigray Region, which for the first time, in almost a hundred years, altered Eritrea’s colonial border with Ethiopia. The Ethiopian Mapping Authority also officially printed this “illegal” map of the Tigray Region. The map later appeared on the new Ethiopian currency.

    November 1997
    The Joint High Commission met in Asmara, Eritrea and agreed to meet again within three months. There was no discussion on substantive matters. In the meantime, in January 1998, Ethiopian troops were deployed to the border
    on the Assab line to demand that the Eritrean border post situated on the Assab-Addis Ababa road move several kilometers towards Assab, as the area was being claimed by Ethiopia. A patient handling and quiet diplomacy
    on the part of Eritrea averted what could have been a dangerous confrontation.

    January 1998

    :Ethiopia tried by military means to occupay sovereign Eritrean territory on the Burie area (Assab-Dessie road ). Unfortunately, Eritrean efforts to solve the problem amicably and bilaterally failed as the Government of Ethiopia continued to bring under its occupation the Eritrean territories that it had incorporated into its map.

    May 6, 1998

    Ethiopian troops, unprovoked, fired at an Eritrean patrol unit on routine duty along the border around Badme. Several of its members were killed. This triggered off a chain reaction on both sides.

    May 13, 1998

    The Ethiopian Parliament declared war on Eritrea!

    Here is in details(i know you have crammed them already from this website:) )

    http://dehai.org/conflict/home.htm?commentaries.htm%29

    • Nitricc

      He won’t answer you but ask him what Teqeda Alemu lectured and promised to a crowd of Ethiopians in DC? Ask him.
      Ask him what Siye Abraha did against Eritreans when he was a governer t of Togray?
      Ask him what Siye, Gebru Asrat and Abay Tsehaye agreed to do about Eritrea and Eritreans.
      Ask him be ready to be ignored or lied to.

    • dine

      the map of tigrai later appeared on the new Ethiopian currency is amazing it is all over ethiopian birr (1,5,10,50,100) every body can see it.

    • Yodita

      Dear Saba,

      IA’s stuborness cost thousands of lives. Some GREAT statestment bent backwards for the sake and LOVE of their people and their personal ego (like stuborness) is a non-issue. One of the things I admire of the late PMMZ was he publicly made a fool of himself trying to make those direct calls to talk to Isaias and save the day and thousands from being sent to their untimely deaths. Your flaunting such a huge crime of an individual simply saying ” …IA as stubborn as he is …”, I am afraid, reflects on you too!! IAs main and only concern should have been how to AVOID the war. His stuborness, unfortunately, is continuing to cost untold difficulties for two generations of the Eritrean people. I will now go back to read the rest of your post, cause I stopped to write this after I read how lightly you mention the “stuborness” of a man that had made out country one of the most isolated and without a semblance of a normal one!

      • Saba

        Dear Yodita,
        I think i am afraid that you might belong to the group of people affected by what i call “PFDJ syndrome”[they hate PFDJ so much that they can not analyse events clearly and with lucidity, they blame 100%PFDJ and they condone the wrongdoing of the rest of the players and some to the extreme, they hate everything about Eritrea]
        If you follow a “linear thinking” then you will be tricked easily by the mastery of PMMZ’s diplomatic show.
        Just because IA is stubborn, does it make correct for PMMZ to declare a full scale war?
        For me both IA and PMMZ are to blame for the loss of innocent lives.

        • Amde

          Hi Saba,

          I am always amazed when Eritreans are pissed that the issue was brought to the Ethiopian Parliament, and that it should have been handled in the hush hush wink wink nudge nudge of the Issayas – Meles Friday night dates.

          The way I see it – it was symbolic of Eritrea’s expectation that the TPLF’s role was to do its bidding from Addis and keep the restless natives under control.

          The country was invaded and territory occupied by an alien party. The country needed to hear about it. If there was one thing done right, it was to bring the whole issue to the people’s representataives. Meles did the right thing there and good for him.

          amde

          • Saba

            Hi Amde, Badme was invaded first by TPLF and then EPLF retook it. Do you still believe that Badme is ethiopian?

          • Amde

            Who cares?

            TPLF and EPLFDJ were guerrillas first. When they are guerrillas they dealt with each other with rules nobody knows about. They then became governments. At that point, there are institutional and legal means of going about these things. Melles is vilified for the one thing he did right.

            amde

          • Saba

            TPLF cares, that is why they have started a full scale war and you care because you just said that it was invaded by an “alien party”. PMMZ had got it wrong twice 1) starting the full scale war just to get badme and then 2) refusing to accept the verdict of the EEBC. Can you please tell me if these 2 points are not facts?

            Dear Amde, welcome to betri haqi analysis.

          • Amde

            Hahaha…

            I actually love that “welcome to betri haqi analysis”

            Dear Saba, please consider Badme as a gift of the Eritrean Ghedli to Ethiopia. I thought ELF was pissed at EPLFDJ for selling Badme to Tigray as payment for TPLF assistance in pushing ELF to teh Sudan? In that case, it belongs to TPLF.

            1. As to TPLF starting a full scale war, well I know for a fact they literally called back thousands of former Ethiopian (Derg) army and airforce officers and soldiers to remake a defense force they had eliminated after coming to power. How logical is it that they will retrain, arm and integrate with their army their former deadly foes? That is nonesense.

            2. As to refusing to accept the EEBC verdict, I say good for them. They shouldn’t have gotten into it, and then they botched it. Dear Saba, you want to wield the EEBC verdict as a “betri haqi” or “betri higi” like a whip to be deployed on an unruly child. That is what it is really – just a way to show who’se boss. Well, it is nothing more than Shylock’s pound of flesh in Shakespeare’s “The Merchant of Venice”. Melles/Ethiopia has offered acceptance on most of the border, and wanted to negotiate on the rest and the relationship between neighbors going forward. If it makes you feel good to repeat the mantra EEBC a gazillion times, I say all power to ya. Have at it.

            Me? I am glad it has not been implemented.

            Next question.

            amde

          • Saba

            I was laughing when you said “next question”. I was thinking that you are making a full circle and i guess you are realizing it yourself. Betri haqi analysis allows you to make a full circle when you start to show some paradoxical thinking, for example, you bring one fact to show that the previous fact was wrong and then you bring a 3rd fact to show that fact 2 was wrong but fact 1 is correct. Do you speak tigrigna? If not i will explain to you what does it mean “betri haqi—–”
            Saba

          • Amde

            Dear Saba,

            I do not speak Tigrigna, but I do know what betri haqi means,and what it is meant to represent.

            I am sorry you think I came full circle. Item 1 was what happened AFTER Eritrea invaded Badme and took place over the latter half of 1998 and through 1999, and what allowed 2000 to happen, Item 2 stands by itself.

            amde

          • abinet

            Dear saba
            why are you worried as to who started the war?how is it related to the current situation? The way you are arguing, I suspect that you are a high level official who is to trying very hard to be vindicated.

          • haileTG

            Hi Saba,

            After finally opening a line of discussion with you in your last leg here, there you come again with issues of “declaration of war” that we are in no position to do anything about. Instead of focusing on a “declared” things from 16 years ago, why don’t you focus on the open declaration of PMHD (heard through VOA) that a single wrong action by IA, that he would cut him down to a size of an ant without a single hesitation (emphasis mine to make it clearer). How is that latest declaration of “you try to test me, I’ll throw you past Dahlak Kebir Island” in black and white. Don’t worry, the Eritrean people wouldn’t get involved at all, just PFDJ and their kids YPFDJ and the lil one’s Baby-PFDJ. ተካል ትርከቦ ህግደፍ፡ ንዓና ከም ኤርትራውያን ቅስምና ዝሰበረ ስርዓት ከም ቀደም ክንደፋዓሉ ኣይኮነን፡ መቓብር ክንፍሕረሉ ጥራይ እዩ ትምኒትና’።

            But as a female, Eritrean and (aspiring or real Dr), what do you make of a situation where Eritrean women are going through by sleeping rough in Sana’a? I mean, as a woman. Because, it must be huge indignity and so much social degredation for a woman to spend months in a street. No? As an Eritrean woman, how would you feel about your fellow woman. I mean woman to woman sort of thing. How is it that you can have a woman’s heart and feel to be bothered about a 16 year old declaration of a war, for which we got a good trashing anyway (declared or not) and can’t feel any urgency that to write and educate us about what Eritrean women are going through? I mean your sisters, changing, dressing, sanitizing in open places with totally degraded sense of human dignity, and you feel the hot issue of the day is what Ethiopia did or didn’t 16 years ago, a child in grade one then would be graduating with a 4 year B.Sc today having also completed their all schooling upto grade 12. Have you ever been on a street as a woman, how would you think would have felt if you were and your sister abroad would be occupied by the issues you are at the moment?

            Can we safely assume that the Eritrean PFDJite diaspora woman may not be too distinctive from you either? Of course, you are an ardent justice seeker wink wink 🙂

          • Saba

            Haile T G,
            I do not know whether this is a circumstantial or tangential speech. The border discussion has somehow started and I was giving my 2 cents. Do I have to answer any question/topic with gruesome details of PFDJ crimes?
            Now that I compare this post with your discussion with “Asmara”(I read it with your acceptance speech, thanks to the link by semiruley), where you got your title “THE GREAT”(yes you are actually the great but you do not unleash your greatness very often), you have not changed your tactics. You bring some vivid details so that your victim will lose a clear thought.
            Are you trying to accuse me that I am insensitive to the suffering of our people? And now you are including diaspora women, that is a dangerous generalization. I have witnessed people suffering under different circumstances, under PFDJ, under TPLF, in refugee camps. What you are doing is like a man telling a woman that labor is so painful, just after she gave birth. Sometimes you accuse me that I am a PFDJ supporter. I was never a PFDJ member, i do know if you were a PFDJ member. Are you practicing “Karl rove” method? Accusing people hoping that
            it will stick with them or turning somebody’s strength into weakness by associating them to some unrelated vivid details.
            If you care about those people suffering, after explaining their stories in details, what are you going to do? You see activism helps but the situation needs political solution. You seem
            mute in your action, shocked. We need to act, beyond mourning. Man up Hailuwa, strenghten your cyber opposition, instead of extending the longevity of DIA by your inaction.
            You seem to be delighted of another possible ethio-eritrea war. It is the innocent people that will be the victim, unless you pray to “santa TPLF”. Please do not add problem, we have already enough problem.
            You are telling me that, in a 100 scale level, your suffering, your empathy is 100. Ok what are you going to do to help those people? I guess you are stuck in that stage of empathy. There are 3 different ideas forwarded by people in the forum:-
            1)PFDJ-DIA
            2) PFDJ-DIA-higher level officials
            3)PFDJ-PFDJ=No PFDJ, this is from the “weed-out” camp
            Now out of these 3, which one do you support and how do you think we can achieve it?

          • haileTG

            Dear Saba,

            Your prioritization of what bothers PFDJ (border war) over the demise of Eritrean people under the brutal hgdef is what is calling my attention. Expressing hgdef brutality and giving center stage to the current suffering (emergency) of Eritreans, even at writing about it level, is more worthy than the non-stop futile attempts you keep mounting to derail those topics and divert them to back burner issue.

            The solution that I support is total removal of PFDJ by any means necessary. The actual work would need to be done inside Eritrea. PFDJ must be challenged with the language it understands. Now don’t go to blind stab of why don’t you go and such and such. Regardless of who is going to go where or do what I am telling you that this is a real plan, and we will see what it is going produce at the end. Eritreans are at a cross roads and the chances are slim that the PFDJ would de-escalate the mass driving out of the population. We will need to get involved at all levels in all ways and preparations are underway, but the showdown will certainly take place. Those who are playing awqo yeteNa, we don’t want to disturb…sweet dreams. Here is a nice poem by the son of Eritrean legendary Artist Isayas Tsegay, enjoy 🙂

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP57lqX0wIA

        • Semere Andom

          Dr.Saba:
          Welcome back, I missed your consistent diagnosis with endless syndromes. The wube syndrome, the deficiency of Lhetit and shinfaE syndrome, the PFDJ syndrome. Any more syndromes left in you bag?

          • Saba

            Hi Semere Semiruley,
            Thanks. I know you like satire that is why you miss my endless diagnosis:) I like your creative satire.

            New diagnosis are made based on meticulous studies of subjects under different conditions. So it is our subject’s behavior that determines the invention of a new diagnosis:) Recently i have observed 2 syndromes but i did not quite get a grasp of it and i am looking also for a better terminology, i am sure you will help me better in this one(you will be given credit:) )
            Another way you can help is to administer some tough topics, kind of a “stress test” and that will help to give a better contrast to some hidden behaviors or symptoms.
            Looking forward to read your creative satire.
            Oops, i forgot to ask you, are you from the cyber opposition, from PFDJ or from the “third way”? Or you enjoy 3 of them equally?:)

        • Ermias

          Hi Saba,

          Knowing your thought process, let’s list what you call the actors:

          1. PFDJ
          2. TPLF as you refer to them.
          3. Cyber opposition as you refer to them.

          However, PFDJ is running Eritrea solely and so they are squarely responsible for all good or bad. As far as the opposition, even IA himself doesn’t acknowledge they exist let alone to blame them for any wrongdoing but you are here relentlessly accusing them as much as you accuse PFDJ if not more.

          Ethiopians are now ‘foreigners’ just as in the Sudanese given Eritrea is an independent nation so start looking from inside.

          • Saba

            Hi Ermias,
            I know you are one of the few people who can SOMETIMES understand the complexity of my thought but please do not investigate me with your Sherlock style.
            The players are dynamic(not static as you suggest), and vary with each event but the cyber opposition have never been so far a player, i am accusing of their INACTION.
            In the above case, the border issue, the players were EPLF and TPLF and both are guilty.

          • Ermias

            Thank you Sabi. I understand you alright. I will plead with Hailuwa arkey to give you a little break because you are badly misunderstood around here. You are desperately seeking for the opposition to change their ways but you come off as if you are sympathizing with PFDJ. You should clearly declare first that PFDJ is a criminal regime and that it must be eliminated and then you can express your frustration with the opposition. Otherwise, you will sound like Asmara Rose every time.

        • dude

          Hello Saba & all
          I find your logic a bit disingenuous aside for it being morally bankrupt. Let me explain…
          You first accused the ethiopian govt of starting a war to get badime and then not honoring the EEBC decision which only became an option after Eritrea’s military defeat. A de facto conclusion of the conflict was in effect a prerequisite for the EEBC deliberations, and I won’t even go into the possibility of this being a trait inherited from the ghedli (wink). The people inhabiting these villages are so closely related that it doesn’t even matter which side of the border this or that village lied. The Eritrean government was unwilling to peacefully resolve the demarcation issue because it was fabricated to get it what it really wanted, the conflict(think walwal), for which a hundred thousand impoverished and innocent youth paid with their dear lives. This war was a disgrace to the entire human race. Sure, implementing the EEBC decision without preconditions is logistically simple but absent of addressing the PFDJ’s proclivity to manufacture conflicts, it is entirely meaningless. In my opinion, the EEBC is a non starter, we need STRINGENT economic and military agreements so as to eliminate the chances of such a conflict ever materializing, there’s no going back to square one after a hundred thousand people have lost their lives. I’d rather discuss honoring agreements with Reagan’s welfare queen before I would expect PFDJ to work for sustainable peace. The war was a crime, it brought out the worst in us, my heart goes out to all the people whose lives were uprooted. I was in elementary school at the time and my friends whom I had grown up with since kindergarten started quietly disappearing, I have since found Wintana and Shushan, but where is Adoniam, Delina, Filmon…

    • T. Kifle

      Dear Saba,

      You rely on statistics and I rely on my eyes and experiences. If Ethiopia was the instigator of the war, I would be opposed to it from day one. But I know it didn’t. You know it didn’t. Many of the cyber-fighters of the era knew it didn’t.

      Note: The war was between Ethiopia and Eritrea. I advise you to avoid party references on here but if you insist use EPRDF vs PFDJ, the ruling parties.

      Hawki
      TK

      • Saba

        Hi T. Kifle,
        Not just stat, i was at the border at that time and i was hearing incidents that have occurred before the war. Fore example, there was this eritrean negaday in tigray region, he was arrested because he has naqfa, a banknote with pictures considered”rukusat”.
        So as you can see both PFDJ and TPLF(sorry the rest of EPRDF has a minor role to play) had their crimes. We should distinguish them from the civilian people.
        I do not belong to PFDJ, so i am a free thinker. I see you sometimes you are objective(that is how you have captured my attention) and sometimes partisan. I hope you spend more time on being objective, because you have a role to play in improving the relationship of the 2 brotherly people.
        Saba

        • Ermias

          Saba, as far as I can see, T. Kifle is as objective as anyone here. Call me naive but TK is here not to influence our views per se but our attitudes. He has added much depth and substance to the debates here. Of course his loyalty is to the Government of Ethiopia and so he should never be blamed for protecting the interests of Ethiopia. But I say, even if a fraction of what he says is true, he is an eye opener. How would it hurt any of us to say, ‘oh wow, children were killed in a school ground in Mekele by our government? I am sorry to hear that. That should never have happened. I hope it was not intentional.’ That’s it. We would have been talking about more pertinent and current issues.

          • Yodita

            Dear Ermias,

            ” … T. Kifle is as objective as anyone here…”. I do not agree with this view, but I respect it because I read it to be free of strategy and in a spirit of fairness. If after reading all of his posts, you’ve reached this conclusion, in this particular regard, we have opposed mind-sets because objectivity is what I do not find in T.Kifle. Your sis

          • T. Kifle

            Yodita,
            Ermias is not donning objectivity on T.Kifle. He is saying, T.Kifle is as objective as Yodita(everybody else) is. Happy?

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Ermias,

            By the way to influence an “attitude” is harder than to influence “views”. Attitude is always an expression of character and is an inborn with the individual. An attitude can not be dealt in such kind of forums. It is only in a clinical psychology lab of conditioning.

            Senay MeAlti

            Amanuel Hidrat

          • Nitricc

            Aman it is esay for you to say
            Spend a few weeks as a cadet in the military and you tell me you are coming out with same attitude going in.
            Speaking Ermias well
            He was inspired to hate gedli becose he read YG and Serray.
            Now his eyes are opened becouse of T kifle.
            You talk about character?
            Ermias wake before too late.

          • Ermias

            Nitricc, all I could do was give you an up vote. You never fail to put a smile in my face.

          • SA

            Dear Amanuel:

            I beg to differ with your comment that attitude is “an inborn with the individual.” The dictionary defines attitude as “a settled way of thinking or feeling about someone or something, typically one that is reflected in a person’s behavior.”
            If that is how attitude is defined, then it is liable to change based on new experiences and information. To take myself as an example, my attitude against the EPLF/PFDJ regime has changed over the years.I also believe that the attitude of Eritreans towards Ethiopians has been changing over the last 14 years. Part of the first paragraph about attitude in Wikipedia reads as:

            “Attitude can be formed from a person’s past and present.[2] Attitude is also measurable and changeable as well as influencing the person’s emotion and behavior.”

            View (or opinion) and attitude are synonyms and can be used interchangeably, but there is a difference between the two. A view is the way you look at things but an attitude is the way you feel or act upon certain things. You are right that it is harder to influence one’s attitude than one’s views, but our attitude is often directly related to our views. Since our attitudes can often be changed by changing our views, it makes sense to influence others’ attitudes by attempting to influence their views.

            SA

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Merhaba SA,

            You are right that I said it in a simplistic way of saying, while it is more than that. The reason, because what we are doing here is socio-politics. At least that is the area where I am interested in and actively engaged to. I just throw my comment just to indicate the difference of attitude and views. Again keep in mind they are not the same.

            But to justify my argument I will mention the three components of attitude.(a) attitude has cognitive component (b) a behavioral component (c) an emotional component. Your definition of attitude reflect the behavioral component of attitude and your examples fits accordingly to the behavior of individuals. Behavior attitudes can be influenced by communications. But if you see the cognitive and emotional component they are inborn characteristics. for instance if a person is easily irritable or very sensitive you can’t make him insensitive or less irritable (emotional attitude). He is who he is. Any attitude related to moods is inborn. The cognitive component of attitude has to due with the IQ of the individual. Hence it is inborn traits. I think if we go beyond that we are going out of our way. Thanks for your comment.

            Senay Mishet,

            Amanuel H.

          • SA

            Dear Mr. Amanuel:
            Thanks for for sharing the educational information about the 3 components of attitude. That was helpful.
            Senay Mishet to you too.
            SA

          • Ermias

            Dear Yodita,
            I knew this was going to raise your eye brows given the extensive yet enlightening debates you have been having with TK. I like it because it is healthy, civil, and educational. Only if our leaders could sit on a round table (like A. Hidrat espouses) debate their lungs out about all the issues all day and go to a ‘Happy Hour’ afterwards for beer and chicken wings and watch the Champions League final between Atletico Madird and Real Madrid. If you don’t know much about soccer (or you probably call it football), this is expected to be an epic game on May 24. Please, close your eys and pick one team for me as the winner and I will bet with my friends on that because it is anyone’s guess. Sorry, I get carried away all too often.
            I have noticed that TK has gotten increasingly defensive when it comes to TPLF and that should be totally understandable because I suspect he joined early on in the struggle and he still remains in the fight, which could be close to 40 years now. That doesn’t mean TK should defend TPLF at the expense of burying the truth. But look, Yodita haftey, at the positions of TPLF and EPLF/PFDJ. The burden of proof is on EPLF/PFDJ because I would say that TPLF has far exceeded anyone’s expectations, certainly mine, and EPLF has disappointed the majority of Eritreans and I would argue every human being in Ethiopia. So given the strong position that TPLF is in, why should it come out and say we goofed up here and we screwed up there only to weaken their position? We are scrutinizing the EPLF’s present and ghedli days to understand what led to all this mess. TPLF is not under scrutiny but I understand that they had a role (how big, it depends on whom you ask).
            I have called out on TK the other day for putting SAAY and YG in one basket (that was my understand and he later explained that wasn’t his intention) which would span the entire Eritrean elite specturm. In my understanding, so long as he doesn’t put all of us in one basket, like he kind of seemed also when he said ‘mainstream Eritrea’ which he again explained later, he can defend TPLF as much as he pleases and put all the onus on EPLF/PFDJ and its sympathizers to prove him otherwise and that, in my book, would still make him objective.
            Afterall, objectivity is relative and so me calling him ‘as objecitive as anyone’ is totally subjective as it is simply my opinion. But I have taken note of your objection to my stand on this one. We will work on and bridge the gap. Thank you Yodita. I truly believe you are a shining star!

          • Yodita

            Ermias Shkor (I think that’s what Hayat calls you),

            I enjoyed reading your post. It is educational and also soothing. I think Amanuel Hidrat is absolutely right when he says that attitude is inborn because you are so loaded with wisdom and gentleness, attributes one thinks are gained by long life and wide experience (at least wisdom).

            About football, whereas I have always heard of Real Madrid, I never heard about the other team. I am so clueless and I want you to win so bad, I am unable to pronounce myself. Best of luck to you Dear Ermias!

        • T. Kifle

          Selamat Saba,

          The problem is Saba, because you think the PFDJ’s Eritrea and TPLF’s Tigray one and the same you commit common mistakes like ” there was this Eritrean negaday in tigray region, he was arrested because he has naqfa, a banknote with pictures considered”rukusat”.”. We all know that people living on both sides of the border can merchandise for values of 2000 naqfa/Birr in the towns on either side. The man you refereed to if true couldn’t be arrested for having Naqfa for mere symbolism since we usually do collect different banknotes even as a hobby. Please be honest and shrug off this kind of childish accusation which hardly holds water and try to know little bit of Tigray.

          • Saba

            Dear T. Kifle,
            I heard that story by myself before the war. You know naqfa was new at that time and was one of the hot issue.
            I absolutely separate people from party. That is why i was suggesting you, in my previous posts, to focus more on people-to-people relationship instead of EPLF/PFDJ-to-TPLF/EPRDF, i gave you as example the lunch gathering between Eritreans and Ethiopians. Anyway i think we will not agree whether TPLF is devil or saint toward Eritreans. So i want to focus on people-to-people.
            What do you make of this Nat berhe tweets?
            http://nypost.com/2014/05/18/giants-pick-berhe-is-eritreas-first-nfl-player/

  • Nitricc

    If I had to tell you what your super power master, the one that feeds you; the USA with its high tech Drons, destroying children, schools and you name it, then, only you could have understood why a poor country Eritrea on her first air ride a target can go south.
    But since you and the rest of Tigrysns, you don’t see things as they should your victim mentality and inferior complexity is blinding you.
    If not what is so hard to understand inexperienced pailot missed his target?
    I am not making excuse or anything like that but it was war and in war anything can happen. Like you tried to Asmara and you did not dropped apples either.

  • Amanuel Hidrat

    Selam Jo,

    The Eritrean people are magnanimous by nature. But we have a regime that doesn’t have that virtue. Once a regime engaged in liquidating his opponents there is no retreat from that. The regime will live and die with that path. Think about it and be in their shoes, and commit everything they have committed, you wouldn’t retreat from that for it is an act of self-suicide in itself. Am I right Jo ? The people who lost their love ones will not let it to go without justice. What we miss in our nation is justice for all. When I said this it doesn’t imply by any means that I am against magnanimity. I am just stating the facts if you the ability to convince the victims of the regime.

    Hawka,

    Amanuel Hidrat

    • Jo

      Selamat Amanuel,

      I am aware the task is not easy, but if we have the will and desire to go beyond our current predicament, I can’t see us falling short of achieving what we, all, have been longing for, for almost a century: progressive Eritrea. I think, If it was not possible, for a mother, to forget the pain that she goes through baring a child; it would have been impossible, for her, to go through the pain of baring children again. You could argue that it is the joy of having her children that may hill the pain or help her forget. In that context, don’t you think may be the birth of a new peaceful and progressive Eritrea would have had that same effect in our society? I hope I don’t sound as if I am trivializing the pain and marginalization of the victims. I am just in a quest for a better alternative, since the other alternatives kept leading us straight into a concrete wall. I believe, with a bit of magnanimity and tenacity we could all be winners.

      …optimist!

  • tes

    Dear Jo,

    As you said, the thing that we are fighting for is against the system. But, you have misunderstood one thing. No one said all people working for the system are good. Crimes are done and crime is done through hands of the members. Having this in mind, here, we are saying, until they are found guilty by law, they are innocent. This is what we are fighting for, the rule of law. Therefore, we are calling those people are good.

    The other is your opinion.

    hawka
    tes

    • Jo

      Selamat Tes,

      I don’t remember saying all, but most. If most people are good, then it means you could reason with the majority, right? If you could do that, is there a reason to hold a hostile approach because of a few nuisances against the entire group? The point I am trying to make is, despite the suffering we have endured, let us shift our approach from hostility towards reconciliation, hoping that may persuade more people and open a window of opportunity for a progressive beginning. Is that too much to ask?

      Yours too!

      • Amanuel Hidrat

        Haw Jo,

        It is not true and necessary that that majority is always right. The majority could have the same understanding, but it is not necessary to be right. Just make the most rational reasoning and try to convince the public. If they understand you, it is great, if not stand with your reasoning until you encounter with a better convincing reason. That should be your approach of engagement.

  • Semere Andom

    Sorry AT, it is my second time today to bring my comments on the top, the first one a mistake, this one I do not know where to reply.

    The issue of the school children boils down again to unmistakeably delineate the line between PFDJ and the Eritrean people, the Ethiopian people must be able to do so and the elites like T.Kifle must help them see this stark difference clearly. Whether PFDJ did it intentionally or accidentally is irrelevant, PFDJ is responsible for the murder and negligence if you assume it was accidental. We, the people of Eritrea have never deliberately unleashed heinous crimes against our kin in Ethiopia, a government that imposed its tyrannical rule over us may have done so intentionally. And as you can tell these government is not by us or for us and we should not be held accountable to neither its premeditated nor accidental crimes. We are the Eritrean people who along with the Tigrinyan people fought a brutal war to get rid of a brutal system in our countries. Eritreans got a government they do not deserve and we implore the intellectuals of Tigrinya to help us make the distinction between a criminal government that temporarily domiciles in Asmara and the Eritrean people who will be for ever the neighboring , friendly, generous people, who will have myriad and ubiquitous relationships with the people of Tigrinya.

    The fact that the EECB exonerated the Eritrean government from the “intentional” crime does not mean the PFDJ is innocent, it just means it is not guilty as there is no evidence to prove that and the persecutors ( Ethiopian government) is to blame for not providing evidence that help prove. Innocence and guilty are related but different. The reason of prudence of PFDJ to economize on bombs is silly as we know that PFDJ committed so many stupid non-prudent action before. To use this assertion as proof that PFDJ actions was not intentional is forgetting that PFDJ is a repeat offender in its non-prudence when it comes to the best interest of the nation. Do youth think that a group of hooligans who murders their own people in mass, like the Muslims from Keren and the commander of shoot to kill policy will give a flying fig about a bunch of “agame” kids, to care about saving a couple of bombs for Eritrea. Yes, I do not have a proof of the intentional nature, but PFDJ is guilty by reason of suspicion from its past and present behaviour

    Intentional or accidental, the good Eritrean people must not be held responsible and, T. Kifle as a self-proclaimed friend of Eritrea must help us tell this undisputed fact to the good people of Tigray.

    One last thing for both Eritreans and Ethiopians, I think both people are ahead of the intellectuals and officials, given the brainwashing and hate that was disseminated during the last carnage, when it came to people to people we did not snatched or “gurades” and guns and commit genocide against each other. Our relationships endured despite the hate and filth that inundated us

    Sem

    • Abinet

      Now you are talking!

    • T. Kifle

      Dear Semere A.

      Thank you for your honest reflection on the matter. Actually, people in Ethiopia don’t miss the difference between PFDJ(EPLF) and the Eritrean people who themselves have been at the receiving end since the advent of armed struggle. Someone speaking on the behalf of the Eritrean people with a protective shell to the heinous crimes IA had perpetrated upon Ethiopia is a contradiction in terms. During the fateful day of the Ayder school bombardment which left 35 kids dead and another 135 wounded(most of them handicapped as a result) the hyper nationalists had an occasion of ወጋሕ ትበል ለይቲ dance praising IA for what he did through his Air-power superiority with more future action in mind ገና ከርእዮም’ዩ. Ethiopians at the time had let it go. Even the deportation saga didn’t touch the majority of Eritreans in Ethiopia. I and 1 Eritrean family lived in one ካንሸሎ before the war broke. Their senior son joined the national service(6th round). They actually told me the reason he joined the service was because he wanted to study at Asmara University and that was impossible short of passing through SAWA. Once the war broke, the head of the family disappeared from home for fear of being deported. But the family stayed there and still are and the man joined them after the war was over. Sending a son to SAWA was enough reason for them to be deported. The hiding of the man could have induced further suspicion that stakes their chance of staying. But despite of all of that they remained. I tried to encouraged them that the war was not their fault and shouldn’t feel guilty in any way. That’s how the common people managed the tragedy. I have also learned similar stories happened in Asmara that Eritrean neighbours and friends did their best to protect their Ethiopian brothers and sisters . So the problem never has been the problem of the common people. Alas! the problem has always been the elites.

      regards

      TK

      • saay7

        Selamat TK:

        “During the fateful day of the Ayder school bombardment which left 35 kids dead and another 135 wounded(most of them handicapped as a result) the hyper nationalists had an occasion of ወጋሕ ትበል ለይቲ dance praising IA for what he did through his Air-power superiority with more future action in mind ገና ከርእዮም’ዩ. ”

        Now this is your precise quote. Could you give me an example from the hyper nationalists who were celebrating the Ayder School bombing? A link is what I am looking for, a link and a quote.

        saay

        • T. Kifle

          Dear Saleh,

          You are asking for a link? Oh, I have the names, the hotel, and every detail of it but I wouldn’t let it be posted here.

          • saay7

            Selamat TK:

            I hear you. Oh, I have the winning numbers for the next super lotto right next to a recording I made of an alien, who was riding on a unicorn.

            Gedima, as the Egyptians say.

            saay

      • Yodita

        T.Kifle,

        “So the problem has never been the problem of the common people. Alas!
        the problem has always been that of the elites'(still referring to the
        elites much to the chagrin of Yodita)”

        Now you switched from mainstream to elites as effortlessly (I wish I could say as shamelessly) as possible. Let’s make a deal, lets close the argument here and now. I can’t keep up with your reasoning, now it is mainstream and then it is the elites.

        In closing, I most sincerely wish you and me and all who crave a better world the most success. Ciao!

        • T. Kifle

          My Dear,

          I didn’t initiate it. You did. And you are at liberty to close it any time you deem right. I am eager to learn though if you have different map that the mainstream politics is out of what the elites could form, disseminate, and influence society . Now there are two things.
          1. I said I never doubted virtues in the common man
          2. The cause of the problems that we are living to witness in Eritrea today are much more elastic and may be stretched far beyond 2001, 1998, 1991 even 1961. Saleh Y. has got me right. If you have something to say on my take on this particular claim you are most welcome. Otherwise, it would be superfluous to talk much about the virtues of popular punchline that has never a problem to me at any point in time.

          wish you the best

    • SA

      Great point Semere A., and earlier in the day I tried to make a similar point to another commenter. Here is the relevant part:

      “People are arguing here based on government statements as if they know whether the bombings were intentional or not. We simply do not know, …. So, instead of defending our government’s statements at that time, do not you think it would be better to say, ‘Ugly stuff happens during war, and our side may have committed bad stuff intentionally or unintentionally. I personally condemn any intentional crime committed by our side, and I grieve all the loss of life on both sides during the war. Let’s forgive each other for all the things we hold against each other, and move on to work together as reconciled people.’ We should not be held hostage to defend what the barbaric PFDJ did or did not do during the war as if they are a responsible government. The dissonance among our Eritrean writers in this forum is astounding: on the hand, they lambast the PFDJ for its criminal and irresponsible behavior, and then they turn around and defend its actions during the war.”

      SA

      • Amanuel Hidrat

        Hey SA,

        Spot on. When the Ethiopian issue comes they forgot what they were talking about the regime. Some of us were left isolated and ostracized when we cry to stop the senseless war. The war was senseless to begin with and was led by war mongers. They couldn’t feel ashamed when they say it was a “senseless war” after the fact. To them It wasn’t senseless in 1998, but it become senseless after 1999. So “dissonance” is the right description.

        • SA

          Dear Mr. Amanuel,
          You are one of the writers in this forum I have a lot of respect of when it comes to Ethio-Eritrea relations. If I am allowed to dream for a minute (and dreams do sometimes come true), I would want you or someone like you to be one of the persons who represent our country in post-PFDJ Eritrea in negotiations with Ethiopia.
          SA

      • haileTG

        Dear SA and Sem,

        If we look at it in a strict “matter of fact” way, indeed nobody knows. During the EECC proceedings the commission made its finding based on “available information” which was essentially comparing the claims of both parties and purely relying on their reasoning based on claims. In Eritrea’s side testimony was taken from Col. Abraha who was deputy commander of the Eritrean air force. He claimed that the pilots involved (Eritrean) told him they hit their target. The main issue was that how it was possible to program two sorties in exactly the same manner despite knowing they were destined to different targets. The fact that 2/3 the sorties missed their target was also a serious concern. Col. Abraha admitted the pilot who hit the second target (that hit the parents who were there to assist the children hit on the first) was on his very first flight ever. However, Eritrean authorities had also refused to present the pilots to give evidence or to give any access to the investigation team other than the words of Col. Abraha (Eritrea did have the needed information but was unwilling to cooperate). Hence, the commission took the “available” information and reasoned that on scale of probability it was unintentional albeit with a very high level of unprofessional management of the operation in general to blame.

        No body knows for sure, that is why we relay on the verdict. The same with the other tragedies brouht on us from the other side. In the end, what is certain is that the people of Eritrea and Tigray were always and are always innocent in this whole affairs. The current discussion (timing and tone) doesn’t wax innocuous to me.

        Regards

        • SA

          Dear Haile the Great:
          Thank you for taking the time to educate us with the appropriate background information of the verdicts concerning the intentionality of the bombings. As to the tone of the current discussion, it is unfortunate, disappointing, and discouraging. Let’s hope that the people who have been fiercely arguing about the issue will sit back, evaluate their approach, and engage in the future in a way that brings reconciliation and cooperation among the two people.
          SA

  • Saba

    Hi Awatistas,
    Ok you do not want to debate about border issue/EEBC demarcation. I am tired of it too. But i am tired of also the PFDJ-bashing autotune. After we listen the “PFDJ bashing band” can we talk about SOLUTION. Here are the ideas i have read in this forum:
    1)PFDJ-DIA
    2) PFDJ-DIA-higher level officials
    3)PFDJ-PFDJ=No PFDJ, this is from the “weed-out” camp
    4) annexation with Emama Ethiopia–>YG camp
    5) destruction of planet earth because it is so uncomfortable–>Serray camp
    Either one of 1 to 3 is fine with me as long as it does not involve civil war and it is not TPLF-led. But HOW are you going to achieve it? See see you want to debate again that no.2 is better than no.1 or viceversa. I guess we are addicted to it. Ok let’s go back to PFDJ bashing band, they are sad stories but we are used to “kab mekera nab mekera” and we are only in conflict when we are offered to choose from different solutions to our mekera.

  • Saba

    Dear T. Kifle,
    If you want to improve the relationship, i think the best way to do it is by improving the relationship between Eritrean people and Ethiopian people i.e. people-to-people, we do not have control on our governments. For example, If you spend a lunch time in a gathering between eritreans and ethiopians, you will soon forget the nationalities of the people and just enjoy the gathering. TPLF-EPLF relationship is like love-hate relationship. I will oppose PFDJ but that does not mean that i condone TPLF.
    Saba

  • Apologies Not Needed!

    To all Ethiopians in this forum:
    At times it seems like there is a lot more Ethiopians than Eritreans here. I don’t know what the draw is for them. If there were less Ethiopians, the number of Eritreans would probably increase here on awate.
    Anyhow, here is my message: We don’t want any apology from Ethiopians! Apologies are cheap! What we want is for you to get the hell out of our land. You’re occupying our land illegally.

  • Yodita

    Dear Rahwa,

    Because I do not consider myself a blind partisan in as much as I try to see flaws on both sides as fairly as can muster. It is in the archives that I maintain in no uncertain terms that Ato Isaias started the border war. I have no qualms in acknowledging the disaster the Eritrean regime has managed to amass. I also am known in showering unreserved praise to the late PMMZ and the accomplishment of the present government in Ethiopia. But when T.Kifle upholds “… what is ailing Eritrea is the character in the attribute of the mainstream Eritrean state of mind which has been carried forward by ghedli and revealed in its ugly form in today’s PFDJ.” I go on tilt! ‘Mainstream Eritrean state of mind” which for him is Ghedli and PFDJ I interprest it to mean the majority of the Eritrean people, and I lose my cool. Unless he specifies and qualifies who this “ugly form” is, misunderstandings are inevitable.

    Our “… a brilliant gentle man …” Haile TG doesn need me or anybody else to speak on his behalf. We all know his calibre and competence. I am rather surprised, Sis Rahwa, that when he says IN THIS CASE I stand by Yodita you give it a partisan flavour. He only stands by a SPECIFIC view that Yodita has expressed; a view that is self-explanatory in the debate. Never does he say he stands by Yodita as a whole. Unlike our T. Kifle,Haile TG takes care to qualify it, as appropriate.

  • Eyob Medhane

    Rahwa,

    Yes! I really would like to see that. That is a new absurd claim. I also want to see Seyum Mesfin, Hailemariam Desalegn or Tedros Adhanom (Consecutive Foreign Ministers of Ethiopia) apologizing for that (with full context and clear English, Amharic or Tigrigna) Voice, picture or video would be very much appreciated, Sal….

    • saay7

      Rahway and Eyob:

      Please refer to page 8 section 2.1. I feel like Al Pacino in Godfather III… Every time I want to step away from this issue, you guys keep bringing me back.

      Sorry Eyob, YouTube wasn’t around in 1998-99, so you are not going to find a video, just a statement.

      http://www.essex.ac.uk/armedcon/story_id/Ethiopia%20and%20Eritrea.pdf

      saay

      • Rahwa T

        Saleh nebsi,

        We know how Eritreans are so good in recording their history. All though they have dangerous mission of widening the
        rift between the two people, in the past 10 years we have witnessed dozens of dramas were produced on the different Tigrian “invaders” such as Alula Aba Nega and Bashay Lema to mention few of them.

        Shaebia has video and audio documents of the past 50 years. So you tube could not be an excuse for not presenting a very sensitive issue such as bombing refugees under a UN camp.

        So bejakHa ileka kabakHa zeynixebeyo neger aiteQrb.

        selam

      • Eyob Medhane

        Sal,

        How could you present this as “evidences” 🙂

        Ok. let’s see.. Here are the quotes from what you provided…

        On Eritrean side,

        “….The government of Eritrea has accepted that during air strikes on Mekele, a school was hit and

        civilians killed, although they have not acknowledged any particular number of casualties. Eritrea

        claims that the bombing of the school was a mistake and has apologised for this:”We were successful in attacking military installations. People in Mekele and Adigrat have

        witnessed it. Unfortunately civilians were killed… It was not intentional, sometimes you can

        miss your target. We are sorry for that.”

        The bombing of the school was a major incident during the first few weeks of the fighting.

        Ethiopia does not accept that the bombing was a mistake and claims that by returning to the school

        a second time, Eritrea deliberately intended to target civilians. While the precise details are

        difficult to confirm, diplomatic sources do refer to two bombing raids on Mekele on 5 June.

        Although Eritrea says it has apologised, it has not made any detailed or formal statement or

        indicated that an independent inquiry into the circumstances around the bombing will be held….”

        On Ethiopian side,

        “…The

        civilians were living in tents with UN markings, and had apparently been expelled from Ethiopia.

        Eritrea at the same time condemned the shelling of its border town of Adiquala in which it claimed

        eight civilians were killed and dozens wounded by Ethiopian artillery.

        Ethiopia has denied targeting civilians deliberately and on 11 February issued a statement saying

        that the government “sincerely regrets these civilian deaths” (referring to the Lali Deda incident)

        but argued that the village was near to military front lines and that Eritrea had placed civilians at

        risk by settling deportees there….”

        Now let’s look at it,

        Eritrea, “…Eritrea claims that the bombing of the school was a mistake and has APOLOGIZED for this…” But, “…It has not made any detailed or formal statement…”

        Ethiopia, “..Ethiopia has denied targeting civilians deliberately and on 11 February issued a statement saying
        that the government “sincerely REGRETS these civilian deaths” (referring to the Lali Deda incident)..”

        From both sides, no foreign ministers’s name was mentioned signing on the apology or issued formal statements. In fact Ethiopia never used the word “apology”. Your initial claim was that “Ethiopia foreign minister has apologized for bombing a UN sheltered refugees. I am yet to see that, Sal. Please, keep searching…. 🙂

        • saay7

          Eyobai:

          Ever heard of the expression tesaErna keyblus ygbay Yblu? (Haile will translate for you.)

          My point was that in war, terrible things happen to civilians, mostly women and children, and it happened in the Eritrea-Ethiopia war. A horrific bombing killed and wounded dozens of Ethiopians in Mekele. And a horrific raid killed women and children in Eritrea.

          When those things happened, each side said that the other side did it deliberately. And each side apologized or showed regret for the tragedy to indicate that the tragedy it inflicted on innocent civilians was not intentional. Now you are saying that it wasn’t the Ethiopian FM that did it but some unnamed bureaucrat, and it wasn’t an apology but an expression of regret.

          But what is your point beyond “got you! You made a mistake in identifying the Ethiopian spokesperson? I mean there is more to your long copy/paste “word debris” (wink wink) right?

          saay

          • Jo

            Selamat Saleh,

            I don’t think they want answers or to get to a point. when it serves their argument they start to cite the EEBC, EECC etc…, then when we start to cite those same documents to get them to admit certain things, they shift the post on us, and say, no! we are not talking from legal point of view, but from humanitarian…. Every Eritrean condemned the school incident then and ever since, including the EG taking responsibility and acknowledging that a school had been hit and apologizing for it. They are the once who are in denial about everything that their government did. Different people with different approaches tried to accommodate their issues: apologizing, conceding, castigating and bashing the EG and its leader, praising them that they are the best thing that happened to Ethiopia in particular and to the horn in general. But, I have yet to hear one of them to come and tell us or admit their governments misdeeds. Alas!!! we should give up on that notion else we will be waiting for a long time.

            Ciao!!

          • SA

            Selamat Jo:
            I hate to break this to you, but our government also denied that Sawa was attacked in the same report that Saay linked. And of course, that was a lie because I was there in Sawa at that time and we were bombarded by their plane. What is surprising is that both Saay and Eyob are arguing as if apologies may mean much, when the reality is that the two governments did not have other options except to apologize. I mean, even if the bombings were deliberate, we would not expect either side to admit them. Or do we?

            SA

          • Jo

            Selamat Saba,

            What is new about it: that the Eritrean government lied or Sawa was bombarded? The Sawa bombardment has nothing to do with anything that has been said above. If you are trying to show that governments withhold and sometimes twist information, in war times, for tactical reasons, it is not the first time and it is not going to be the last time either. You may think apologies may not mean much, but they go a long way to hilling emotional wounds and to mending relationships. Governments may not tell us the truth, either for tactical or political expediency, but, in my opinion, civil societies do have the responsibility to discuss and address issues of human rights abuses and infringements on both sides.

            Ciao!

          • SA

            Selamat Jo:

            I agree that apologies are necessary and they can “go a long way to healing emotional wounds and mending relationship.” The issue is that governments lie (as in the case of Sawa bombardment) for whatever reason, and it is surreal to see people arguing here as if the government statements can be believed during circumstances of war. People are arguing here based on government statements as if they know whether the bombings were intentional or not. We simply do not know, and the reason the apologies may not mean much is because the other side does not believe they are sincere. So, instead of defending our government’s statements at that time, do not you think it would be better to say, “Ugly stuff happens during war, and our side may have committed bad stuff intentionally or unintentionally. I personally condemn any intentional crime committed by our side, and I grieve all the loss of life on both sides during the war. Let’s forgive each other for all the things we hold against each other, and move on to work together as reconciled people.” We should not be held hostage to defend what the barbaric PFDJ did or did not do during the war as if they are a responsible government. The dissonance among our Eritrean writers in this forum is astounding: on the hand, they lambast the PFDJ for its criminal and irresponsible behavior, and then they turn around and defend its actions during the war. I can now understand the frustration of Mr. Amanuel Hidrat on this issue, and he may have a point in saying we should move on and focus on the future.

            SA

            SA

          • Eyob Medhane

            Sal

            you’re still on that “regret” and “apology” are the same thing route, aren’t you? From what you gave us what I see is that Shabia’s apology and “we are sorry” (no matter insincere that is) and Ethiopia’s “we regret civilians are hurt, but that was not intentional” statement. Mind you, even at that the Ethiopian government has not specifically refereed to the incident you alleged, but the emphasis was refereed in parenthesis by the negotiators or whoever wrote that document, which does not make it the official statement or acknowledgment of the Ethiopian government….

          • saay7

            Eyobai:

            Ah so, the goal post keeps moving. Remember what got you all excited was Rahwas post which was skepticism towards my claim that Ethiopia had bombed Eritreans it had deported who were being shelter by UN in a tent that clearly indicated it was UNs. Now, you and Rahwa are not disputing that: Rahwa wants a video (sorry Rahwa, EriTV was super-lame then and there was no Eastafro or even Shabait) and you are focused on Ethiopias reaction to the allegation.

            I grant you that Ethiopias foreign ministry has a long experience of the non-denial denial whereas the Eri MoFA just flat out said we apologize.

            Now, have you had any luck finding that quote about Isaias claiming he will have a war in Addis? When I make a claim, I give sources; when you make a claim, you just pound the podium and say “dammit! We all know this happened.” I think this may work on the Super Humble Eritrean that Harbeyna Weyanai wants to create; as for me and the other stubborn Eritreans…(I am doing my “Jay-Z brushing lint off my shoulders” move now:)

            Thanks for shopping; come again.

            saay

          • Eyob Medhane

            Sal,

            Sure. I will come again. 🙂

            Speaking of Shabia and its supporters, who used to live in Ethiopia, I just wanted to share a piece of unrelated to the topic news. Please allow me, just this time 🙂

            The Addis Ababa city administration is demolishing Anbessa Bar!

            http://www.diretube.com/articles/read-the-bego-aderagot-building-to-be-demolished_5223.html#.U309NpRdVfE

            For those of you, who don’t know, during Derg’s time, this place used to be highly suspect of being a “meeting” and hangout place of ‘Ye wonbede degafiwoch ena yeshabia yewst arbegnoch’ posing as brokers (delalas). Looking for these people, there were also so many security people littered the area in the olden days…

            Sal,

            I don’t know, where you were at that time, but if you were in Addis and if that was your hangout, you can ‘regret’ and be nostalgic for the old hide out 😉

          • saay7

            Eyobai:

            My petition to UNESCOs World Heritage is underway 🙂

            Over at Eritrea, the attitude is complete indifference to buildings. You have heard about the crumbling buildings of Asmara courtesy of Zekre Lebonna. Here are some more tragic pictures of the status of historic buildings in Massawa. One of them has not one but two statues of Lions of Judah.

            https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/davidstanleytravel/8529060998/

            Bonus points on the insanity of our megalomaniac:

            1. An Italian refused to sell his palace in Massawa (not pictured) to Isaias. Isaias razed the building to the ground. There is a before and after photo of the palace circulating on FB.

            2. According to wikileaks, when the book about Eritreas historic buildings was published, the author/publisher forgot to acknowledge kbur president hagere Ertra for his leadership and he banned its publication.

            Saay

          • Eyob Medhane

            Sal,

            Thank you so much for showing me those pictures. I saw a monument of the victory of dogali. How come Shabia has not demolished it? I am really surprised. And of course to you, our victory over Italians was not only in Adwa, but dogali also. That should a reminder to you, sir! -)

            About your petition to UNESCO for bego adragot hintsa, well, I kid you not, but people are forming a committee to petition to the government to save it (I assume some nostalgic Eritreans are among them.. :-))

            Again, I really enjoyed those pictures especially the dogali hawelt and the lion of Juda ones 😉 Thank you….

          • dine

            the supermarket next to lion bar is owned by eritrean .

          • Eyob Medhane

            dine,

            I think that’s why they are demolishing it…. (I am kidding folks, don’t jump on me…)

          • saay7

            Eyobai:

            You are welcome. Not only is the Dogali Monument still standing, an Eritrean flag wave next to it. We really are more complex people than the caricature that lives in your head about us.

            Did you see the caption on the Imperial palace? It was built by an Egyptian Governor; it was the winter residence of HSI, it was bombed by Mengistu, and it has been totally neglected since 1991.

            In the city that I grew up in, there were two streets: one named after the Italian General who lost the Battle of Adwa; and one named after the Ethiopian General who won it.

            Massawa architecture is Ottoman and its culture is heavily influenced by Arabia and had been for hundreds of years.

            Ethiopias green card is a yellow card? Sounds like a warning. Does it become a red card if you become a journalist, pardon me, I mean a terrorist? You probably won’t get the reference because you said you hate football.

            saay

          • Eyob Medhane

            Sal,

            I really hope to visit your country and it’s weird complexities (your word, not mine 🙂 ) one day. And, yes! We have a yellow card. (I don’t even know why the call it ‘yellow card’, because the thing is not even yellow) It is a compromise, during the debate about ‘dual citizenship’. It was one of surprising resistance that EPRDF has faced in the Ethiopian parilament, in it’s early days. PM Meles and many other senior officials were open to adopt the ‘dual citizenship’ law, but the few opposition parties that were in the pariliment at the time opposed it and surprisingly some EPRDF members have backed them. Many thought that fine display of democracy was a sign of a ‘rift’ in EPRDF. Especially, the diaspora politicians were so looking for more blood. But guess what? They compromised and came up with the idea that instead of granting dual citizenship, to get those Ethiopian born citizens registered and hand them an identity card to award them all the priviliges that those, who live in Ethiopia, except voting, holding elected office. At the beginning the charge of getting the ‘yellow card’ was mighty expensive. 500 dollars. One of the great achievements of Hailemariam Desalegn, as foreign minister was slashing that to just 50 dollars. Especially, for those, who wanted to start business and set up a shop in Ethiopia that was a welcome news. Just because they had a foreign passport, they used to be treated as a ‘foreign investor’, and even used to get charged with foreign currency for hotel services, when people go for vacation. Now with the ‘yellow card’, you pay just birr 🙂

            I said I hate ‘American football’. Not soccer. (Why do they call it football to begin with? They never touch the crazy shaped ball with their feet anyway:-) are you telling me that they use yellow and red for warning and penalty also? I didn’t know that.

            About you being considered a terrorist, if you become a journalist, the cheap shot aside, if you work in concert with organizations like Article 19 or National Endowment for Democracy and George Soros is funding your “journalistic” activities, yes. You will be considered a terrorist. Just because you chose the fancy name ‘journalist’ or ‘bloger’ (Tomari, in Amharic) that doesn’t change, who you really are. Who wants to be like Ukraine, letting these kinds of people willy nilly on the streets? 🙂

          • Saleh Johar

            Eyob, in fact I get in trouble admitting I support the legislation passed to insulate a country from the Soroses and the like; provided they do not go too far using that as a pretext. On NGO’s, I am closer to PFDJ’s position than anyone else in the opposition that I know. I just don’t like the heavy handed interferences of the Anna Gomezes of the world and their local dellalas.

          • Eyob Medhane

            Ayyyyyyyy Gash Saleh,

            ‘የተማረ ይግደለኝ’ አለ ያገሬ ሰው:: I am so glad you understand this. I am having a lot of endless debates about this with many of my friends and even family members. They think that I am a conspiracy theorist and ‘crazy woyane’ 🙂 The havoc that these NGOs have created in so many countries is very much being looked over. I also agree with you that the law should not be used, as as a pretext to confront some legitimate works. I was in Addis in January, there are countless news papers, books and publications being sold and circulated, and sadly, the vast majority of them engage in ad hominem attacks on people and individuals or in the tabloid news business. That would make these NGOs attractive to some of these ‘News Merchants’, because NGOs pay money and provide laptops and materials to “spread democracy”. They propagate rioting as one of ‘democratic rights’. Not only in Ethiopia, but in so many African countries, so many young men get into these being funded by NGOs to start ‘civil societies’. It’s not about civic duty, but about making money. Earning leaving. Kenya has so many of those kinds of men. A son of failed Kenyan comedian named ‘Whisper’ got in to this kind of business. His name is Patrick Mutahi. The task he was given by Article 19 was to go to other African countries and ‘train’ young bloggers to put their ‘blogging’ to a good use. He went to Zimbabwe, during the last election, and tried to have young people to do ‘sit in’ and to train how to refuse any election result that is not suited to what they like. His attempt didn’t materialize. then last time, he came to Ethiopia. His reputation was there ahead of him and was prevented to get in to the country, was told that, if he ever gets back again, he would go to ‘Qality’. Right after he was shipped out Bole, the next day, he wrote an article and bragged about his ‘adventures’. Right after that, his ‘contacts’, as he called them in his article in Ethiopia were rounded up and arrested. He got over six people arrested…

            http://mobile.nation.co.ke/blogs/United-Nations-must-protect-civil-society–/-/1949942/2288014/-/format/xhtml/-/679lxt/-/index.html

            Here is the news of him being detained at Bole..

            http://www.ifex.org/ethiopia/2014/04/15/staff_detained/

          • Rodab

            Selam Sal,
            Let’s give Eyoba a break and not insist on him substantiating something that can’t be substantiated. We knew the claim was too wild to be true…

  • Semere Andom

    My solution of focusing on important debates
    The fact that the slightest mention of Ghedli sparks the romantics vs. de-romantics debate and tends to careen, sometimes these debates become “tsefar” as Saleh referred to some of his heated debates with Hayat.
    To alleviate the lethargy that we are feeling about certain topics I have the following suggestion to solve the veering of our debates to less important topics:
    we can limit the debates by asking awate and their programmer to write an algorithm to weed-out debates that do not fit our neat criteria. We set certain parameters and rules programmatically and in the background in, the “deepest recesses” of Awate.com’s brain, decisions are made, we do not make decisions, and only the debates deemed important will be displayed. AT will not be blamed for censorship and “important” topics are debated. We are all happy campers
    Also because we are Eritreans, tenacious and are undaunted about the challenges , so let us also weed-out the hidden Ethiopians like Hayat that masquerade like Eritreans amongst us, let us task our programmes to identify who is Ethiopian and who is Eritreans by another algorithm called “eritrawi diye”

    Also because we are Eritreans, we know, we believe that our beloved Ghedli was just and must remain just in our minds and hearts. Because we fought against the Ethiopians and we won Because we fought against the Russians and we won and since past is a guide of the future and not a guide to the present we will be victors in our current fight against the Woyane and CIA, but this last and enduring victory cannot happen before we weed-out the Ghedli defamers by muzzling them in the debate, of the “stale debate of yester years” so we can focus on our arch emery, the PFDJ, let us embed that algorithm in the brain of awate.com
    Our Ghedli has been defaced and we do not want our country to be “unionized”, “unionization” is for the communist like Serray. So let us embed the algorithm called “menfit” that can weed-out defaming debates of any sort.

    Free market should only apply to economics 
    sem

    • Rahwa T

      That is the weakest solution (or idea, if you like), unexpected from an able writer like you, Semere.

    • Mahmud Saleh

      haw semere: You have one message from Yemane G in your inbox: “Welcome back to PFDJ!” i know SGJ & saay are trying to figure out how cleverly their efforts to embolden free speech has been infiltrated ብቆርበት ተቃወምቲ ዝተኸድኑ ህግድፋውያን፡ በዓል ሰመረ። I would add to your proposal: a volunteer moratorium on EPLF/TPLF (perceived/ created, mostly by ዓባይ ትግራይ ኣሕዋት) rivalries, without mentioning that Eritrean tegadelti never saw tplf tegadelti as their rival (ah… I veered on to that gahsi) and focus on futuristic ideas. Our Ethiopian friends: Either get tala/bunna and enjoy the great show, Eritreans exchanging views with civility (rarely)and learn to repeat it in the coming year (vote for Arena Tigray, at least we know where they stand); or get involved in our discussion provided you romanticize our ghedli; (again another veering..)that’s the problem with old generation; let the show be run by the young generation, without being ageist; and let SGJ enjoy his cup of tea with…(you know what it is), they tabooed it or in Tigrayet ስርዕ ወደዎ/ሰረዓዎ where I live and allowed weed instead; people are getting stoned. PFDJ and ማለሊት propaganda have additive effects, they say, with the weed/grass (urban terms I have learned; I am still working on my Tigriglish, Ermias. )

      • Amde

        Mahmud,

        “…or get involved in our discussion provided you romanticize our ghedli;…”

        I had a good laugh with this one.

        Thank you

        amde

  • Solomon Seyum

    That’s lame. The word mutual comes to mind. Step by step we shall all learn to have mutual respect for all of our shows. What is you make visible alone does not make the whole story. As for confrontational, I believe that word to be an oxymoron when it comes to Eritrea and any subject Eritreans discuss. But as for rules, I have no problems with staying within the parameters. Stick around you may even begin to enjoy the “side shows.” I love all the side shows my self. Thanks I
    I hope that you don’t find this response to be confrontational.

  • reject the word habesha

    I reject the word Habesha because it is an extension of Ethiopian colonialism and overall imperial attempt.

  • Amanuel Hidrat

    Dear AT (Saay &SGJ),

    This is a plea to AT and Awatistas (both Eritreans and Ethiopians in this forum):

    We have debated the “border issue” for over a decade in this venerated website. This is excluding the legal arbitration process. We have debated on it more than enough except we are recycling the same argument and the same positions. What we still are missing to understand is that, the border issue is already settled by EEBC and the implementation process is not on the hand of the general public. It is squarely in the hand of the official governments of both countries. We the people other than sharing our thoughts won’t contribute to the implementation of the verdict. So for everything there must be certain conditions to be matured before we even attempts. Those conditions are to have governments willing to listen, willing to communicate with its counterpart, and willing to have commitment to resolve by give and take. Those conditions must be in the picture so us to debate and engage on meaningful and substantive within the parameters of the on going process.

    We don’t have these realities on the ground. So my plea is: let us keep the “border issue” aside until the kind of leadership I mentioned above prevail on both sides. The struggle of both people should be now on how we build leaders who can understand the reality, communicate diplomatically to resolve problems, and listen to the cry of his people. To us Eritreans, we should know our homework. The homework is, to build a constitutional government that is duly elected by the people from the people. Until then, since we don’t have a representative government, we can’t force for a government that didn’t get a contract from our people. Remember Issayas himself told us, that no body gave him a contract on how long will stay and when to leave the power he hold for 23 years.

    This is not my first plea. I have been doing it many times to focus on what as people can influence and bring changes to our political crises. The debate should be on solution oriented matters as we had the last two weeks. The border issue is in the hand of leaders the legitimate enforcers of agreement. Everything at this time fall in the goodwill of our leaders. That goodwill is not there.

    Senay MeAlti,

    Amanuel Hidrat

    • dawit

      Selam Amanuel;
      They said “You can take the girl out of the ghetto but you can’t take the ghetto out of the girl” We will never stop taking about the border because we are Habeshas, stubborn people, never reason logically, never admit mistakes, never compromise! The Abyssinians syndrome’. Do you ever remember in this Awate Forum people reaching any agreement on any controversial issues!

      • Amanuel Hidrat

        Merhaba dawit,

        Don’t expect an agreement on any controversial issue by debating in an internet media. An agreement comes only on round tables…..continuous round tables and ready to make horse trading by give and take. That is the art of political diplomacy. Those aspects of engagements should be the role of governments not the people. It is of this lack of virtue that our leaders kept us in limbo without solutions. I hope that despite we are at different end of our political spectrum we will agree on this footnote.

        Hawka,

        Amanuel Hidrat

        • dawit

          Hi Amanuel, you are right we are at different enad of our political spectrum, but we are singing different songs. I can compromise to your point that PIA is a dictator, we disagree on how we deal with a dictator. You believe in weeding out before we can deal with immediate problems in the country, I say let accept the dictator for now and deal with other issues, like the migration of the youth, which is tied to the mainly border issue that have made the indefinite national service. Let us deal with the UN sanction that has made Eritrean economic problem worse. Now if we can not agree and compromise on those issues, how do yo expect the political leaders to sit and arrive at compromise.
          Regards

          • Saleh Johar

            dawit,
            I don’t know how you can deal with the “migration of the youth” when the dictator is around particularly when, for example, his presence has blocked youth who left Eritrea in the sixties, and now are grandparents in Sudanese refugee camps, from returning to their country! Just think of three-generation who are still suffering. The new refugees are abound to face the same fate if the situation continues as it is. You cannot deal with the problems of Eritrea in the presence of the man who is mainly responsible for creating them.

          • dawit

            Saleh,
            You are right may be it is difficult to deal with an old dictator. By the way Egypt went through a full circle of dictatorship exchange, by weeding an old dictator and planting a brand new dictator, with a belly dancing side show of democracy! From Arab Spring to Arab Winter or hot Summer season.
            About the grand parents refugees in Sudan. Do you think they are used as pawns encouraged not to return to Eritrea, because the independent came by EPLF and not by ELF. Someone might told them to hold on till EPLF is weeded out of Eritrea. Just wondering.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Merhaba dawit,

            First let us agree the border issue is beyond me and you, even beyond awatistas forum. It could only be resolved by the goodwill of both governments. If the public could have the role to resolve it, it wouldn’t be where we are now. The border issue is interstate problem, and interstate problem can only be dealt by governments. The other issue you raised are internal issue. If you don’t treat internal issue holistically , it will be cosmetic change only. We will not save Eritrea by cosmetic changes. So I call you for fundamental change.

            Second, I am tired of being misquoted. Again where did I use the word “weeding’? Please when you say something about someones saying, I will ask you to quote her/him for purposes of clarity. Here is my position and please hang it on your wall. My position is to “dismantle the system of oppression” as you already agreed to, that issayas is a dictator. And off course a dictator can only live in dictatorial system. How about that? I like your civility by the way. At least you get something to admire you.

            Hawka,

            Amanuel Hidrat

          • dawit

            Dear Amanuel;
            Funny you accused me of misquoting you for the word ‘weeding’ as opposed ‘dismantle’. What is the difference? Weeding Rural agricultural word used by peasants , while dismantle urban industrial phrase used by the proletariat workers?. Sorry for the confusion for using the wrong phrase but I didn’t quoted you my urban sophisticated urban ‘tegadali’.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dawit,
            You can’t weed a state machine, you can only dismantle the state machine. Just take it as lesson. I am sure you took it as lesson, but you can’t admit it. Just for the future quote my words. as simple as that.

        • Nitricc

          Round table discussion would have been fine if it was before the blood was shade, properties were destroyed and all out war was conducted.
          After all that the matter went to court and the court rendered it’s crystal clear verdict with final and binding. What I wanted to know from you, Mr Hidarat is why it discussion needed now after the matter is settled?
          Why is it hard for you to state the truth and the fact when it supports Eritrea?
          How can Eritrea trust in table discussion if the Weyane can not up hold internationally accorded agreement?
          I do hope you answer my inquiry
          Thanks.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Nitricc,

            Don’t try to be more Eritrean than your fellow Eritreans (that is one lesson to you). Second, on implementing the verdict both governments have to communicate and interact on the way how it will be implemented. The Eritrean government is not ready to do it. Talking on the implementation doesn’t mean by any means you will lose your right to stand for the interest of your country. Go to the profile of my comments you will find my positions. At the end, those who are debating in this forum haven’t any mandate to resolve it. Governments do. Interstate problems are dealt by governments (second lesson).

            If the governments of both sides kept this states que of “no peace no war”, what is your alternative, Nitricc? Do you want to call the government of Eritrea to go for war, or ask to go to the table and make reasonable talks on the implementations and try to resolve the problem? I will prefer the later than the former. Simply out crying without the mandate is an outright ignorance. Know your limits and act accordingly (third lesson). We are talking the mandates of governments. Me and you don’t have that mandate. As simple as that. How many times do you want to tell you? In fact there are many areas you could contribute and influence for changes, and that is, the political problem inside Eritrea. Talk about round table for our stakeholders is paramount than anything else in the Eritrean politics. So Switch your anger to the regime in Asmara and ask “round table” to happen among our stakeholders. Ezi wodehanka.

            Hawka,

            Amanuel H.

          • Nitricc

            Aman thanks for the response and before I give you my take ; you have not addressed one point. That is.
            If the weyane gangs ops government can’t up hold what they agreed and booked in internationally how can I call for eritrean government to sit down and have dialogue with the same gangs who failed to keep their word on international stage?
            I promise to answer you all. Just help me with this one.
            How can I trust the weyane on back door discussion while they can ‘t even keep their words what they agreed uo one in front of the world?
            Thanks again.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Nitricc,

            You don’t go for the voyage of political diplomacy with your friends, you do it with your enemy to bring peace. Just go and fight on the table to bring an end to the situation. There is no solution by not sitting on a table. Again, remember the talks on posting the pillars and not on the verdict. No body will know precisely on where you put the pillars. You could even argue for a meter here and a meter there where you allow for give and take. That is all. But the regime is doing purposely to hold hostage our young.

    • Saleh Johar

      Hi Amanuel,
      Though I understand your concern, what do you want the AT to do about it. Please make your appeal specific.

      • Amanuel Hidrat

        Merhaba Arkucha (SGJ),

        First and foremost, I appreciate the “team” in making this forum very civil. Big credit to you guys. I am asking to do similar in monitoring our debate as moderators. By that I mean you have the role to shape our debates on issues by by framing it and appropriating the required time (in days and weeks) and then conclude by making summary of the debate on the subject. That will help us to avoid debating back and forth endlessly for months and years. After concluding remark from the team on the particular subject debated, we immediately start another topic. The topic could come from the team or from the forum (awatistas).

        Remember some issues are beyond our scope to resolve them (such as border issue, economic cooperation). We can debate on them to influence the governments but not for for years. As soon as the debate become a matter of positioning, there is no room to continue. That is the end of the subject.

        Let me ask you for example, did you see any new idea on our talks, on border issue, than we did last year, before last year, a year before it……etc? none at all. So for every debate it must have an end and that ending period must be decided by the team. Act like a moderator in a debate, frame it and shape it and end it where it should end. You must have a procedural rules and guidelines. Jot them like the website guidelines and we will be govern by that. I believe if you do that we will have a qualitative and educational debate. With that step in mind, the website will go one stride towards becoming the house of enlightenment and the magnet of intellectuals. That is my unsolicited advice.

        With Respect,
        Amanuel Hidrat

      • haileTG

        Hey SGJ
        Stop asking confusing questions will you..haha 🙂

        Ok, I have a suggestion on what you could do as per Aman’s concern of repetitive ideas without any new angle to them. Start color coding comments 😉 white for new idea and progressively becomes yellowish as the same idea is retold again and again by others. If an idea is so miserably old, well the color finally becomes rotten yellow. I hope this would be a cheaper way of identifying those offering “rotten yellow” ideas without having to hire a rocket scientist to develop the programs that Sem want you to use instead 😉

        • Saleh Johar

          Haha Haile, I am laughing because you came up with a very workable solution. Now because it is your idea, with the power bestowed on my by the Awate Team, I appoint you the painter-in-cheif of the Awate Form. We will send you a gallon of paint for every color you mentioned. You can begin to exercise your powers starting this minute.

          Seriously though, I have an idea that I will present to my colleagues; maybe might try it if they agree.

      • Ermias

        I suggest to have a “potpourri” or miscellaneous comments section to put every comment unrelated to the articles. Have a drop down menu of where the commenter wants the comment be posted. Yep, I can read your lips AT, easier said than done.

        • Nitricc

          Hahaha
          Ermias you never fail to come up with $&$@6&”$ idea.
          How old are you, Son? 🙂

          • Ermias

            This comment from you would go to misc–>garbage.

  • Happy Happy 23

    ርሑስ ቅንያት ናጽነት سعيد عيد الاستقل

    Happy Happy Happy 23rd birthday.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhsPTlvOVus

  • dawit

    Awatistas; The special people of Ethiopians and Eritreans. A new dicovery called ‘Abyssinians Syndrome’ the omnipotent people of the earth. Never admit a mistake, because we never make a mistake, and if by any accident we made a mistake, then deny, deny…because admitting one’s mistake is a weakness. Cover-up your mistakes by manufacturing to more lies; There is no shortage of lies unlike truth which is very scarce commodity among us. Nkhid traie nkdmit, and the rest of the world will catch-up with us.

    ኣበሻ ምቀኛ ፡ ምቀኛ የራሱ መጋኛ።
    እውነት ተናግሮ ከማስታረቅ በውሸት ማጣላት ይበልጣል።
    ሓቅ ተዛሪብካ ካብ መንገዲ ባቡር ምድቃስ፡ ሃሶት ተዛሪብካ ሸራቶን ደቅስ።
    በሎ ጸጊሙዎ ከሎ
    ሲሾም ያልበላ ሲሻር ይቆጨዋል
    ዉሃ ቅዳ ዉሃ መልስ
    ተሓጺብካስ ናብ ጭቃ
    ሲሮጡ የታጥቁት ሲሮጡ ይጠብቃል
    ኣታላይ ኣጭበርባሪ ለባ ሰራቒ = Smart, Intelligent
    ጅል ሞኝ ቂል ዓሻ = Honest, generous

    እዚኦም ዓድና እዞም ዓያሹ ተኣኪቦም እንብ ኦም ዘፍርሱ ዘይ እምባና እምባ መን ፈሪሱ! From one of the fools classical songs ‘Nguse’

    • don’t do it

      Please don’t lump Eritreans and Ethiopians in one basket. It’s offensive.

      • dawit

        Thanks for the brilliant suggestion. I will put them in a separate baskets. But why are arguing in one basket at Awate..com? As soon as they live as two neighbors in peace then I will make them new baskets, and that will be the day when Ethiopians evacuate Eritrean territories occupying illegally.

    • Amde

      dawit,

      when I see your list of amharic proverbs, it brings to mind the question I used to ask myself often – why is it that in all my years of schooling, I never had an Amhara as an Amharic teacher. I never had an answer to that question, nor did anybody offer me a plausible theory.

      amde

      • dawit

        Dear Amde, Well this may not be a satisfactory answer, but let me have a crack on it. Perhaps the Amharas speak the language but do not know the root of their language as most northerners do and they may not have been confident or
        comfortable to teach it. Knowing the language and speaking it must be different. I started my Amharic formal education in Kes Tmhirt bet from a priest who studied at Lalibela. Aleqa Asnake did not know the alphabets, he was near blind when he studied at Lalibela, but he knew every word of the Wengel and dawit by heart. He would listen when we recited the dawit, and if we skip a word, he will catch it. He may have been from Agew Seqota region. He often interpreted the passage in Amharic and he explained the root of the Amharic words from Giez i.e. the Amharic derivation and variation of the words. I had also Eritreans, Gonderes and Tigrians Amharic teachers along the way. Later I studied Amharic grammar from an Oromo guy who was trained to be a Catholic priest at the Vatican.

  • Yodita

    Ato T.Kifle,

    You state: “… what is ailing Eritrea is the character in the attribute of the mainstream Eritrean state of mind which
    has been carried forward by ghedli and revealed in its ugly form in today’s PFDJ.”

    If it is you and a few others like you who believe the above grotesque notion, it will probably die a natural death and will never gather momentum. If however the power in Addis and the mainstream Tigreans believe it the unflinching way you do and are incubating it to hatch, God save us and the coming generations.

    The accumulated humiliation and rage the Tigrean people swallowed for decades and whose abject destituteness horrified the globe, has been vindicated because, it is them who are raising Ethiopia from the ‘ashes’ and showing the world that
    societal transformation and development is possible in as short a time as a couple of decades and for as big a country as over 90 million! The Woyanes canalized all that was negative to something creative and dynamic is what
    I have been shouting. This is the plus side!

    The minus side is: (1) What is ailing Eritrea is not what you state in the first paragraph above, but, among other things, it is
    EPRDF (read TPLF) keeping Isaias in power by refusing to respect the border decision. (2) By their (clever and manipulative) role with the opposition groups that partially or totally depend on them (3) Although they are galloping to build Ethiopia, they have a tacit strategical position to weaken Eritrea (we can say volumes on why they would want that). Isaias is no fool and knows that he fulfils their desire and they will not lift a finger to change the status quo.

    The Woyane are not apparently upset with Isaias because they indirectly give him what he cherishes most: his throne. If what you say is to be given credence, they are upset with the main stream because through their Ghedli, they culminated to
    become PFDJ. The Eritrean people are PFDJ, you are saying incessantly in this website. Woyane are not going to unleash their accumulated humiliation and wrath on the mainstream Eritreans believing us to be PFDJ, are they? This could happen not by waging a war (like PFDJ claims) but by ensuring that Eritrea becomes weak and destitute to how the Tigreans were made to become.

    It is not a perfect analogy, but it like the Israel state taking all the horror it swallowed on the Palestinian people. The scapegoat must be found to unleash what has been suffered.

    With all the uproar (albeit unharnessed and still gathering momentum) that the mainstream Eritreans are waging against PFDJ, you have the nerves to equate PFDJ to the Eritrean people. Much as I do not like to offend, you sound like a harbinger of enmity not between organizations or parties or leaderships but between peoples. For those of us dreaming of a fraternal reconnect, your hammering on this point can make you appear as an agent of Isaias and PFDJ!!

    I regret to say the ‘poison’ you spew, may be inadvertent or it may be deliberate, it is hard to say. By linking PFDJ’s nature
    and excesses to mainstream, you are denying the facts on the ground.

    What is ailing Eritrea is Isaias and his henchmen and don’t take my word for it just open you mind to it (but then if you fail to see it so far, it is bleak that you do so any day soon)!

    Saba wisely says “It is not as simple the “EPLF the devil and TPLF the saint” as you imagine.” Except that you are blatantly saying “Eritrea mainstream is the devil and TPLF the saint”!!! Bejacka Hsebelu’mo teberaber!

    • T. Kifle

      Dear Yodita,

      First of all it’s incumbent upon you to make sure that you are not misinterpreting someone’s ideas. Your interpretation of “mainstream* Eritrean state of mind…” with the “people of Eritrea” is inaccurate to say the least. I am talking about the shakers and makers of opinions in Eritrean field of politics which in effect means the elites and the media. the rest is your view but one point.

      If you are really to work for the “reconnect” of the two people as you would have me believe on here, please, stick to the glaring truth that the Eritrean state had caused so much suffering to my country. Call the spade a spade and admit that IA ignited the despicably internecine war that claimed lives in their ten thousands and the wounds are so deep to heal so soon, bulldozing a promisingly flourishing towns into rubble. . Show your solidarity, share sympathy with the parents who lost their kids at Ayder elementary school by intentional bombardment of such a visible soft-target , the tens of thousands of people who were deported from Eritrea 1991 and 1998 and spent many years under plastic shades. Brotherly “reconnect” comes into fruition when you take the pain of the other party as yours and vice versa. Acknowledge that millions of dollar worth of property of Ethiopian businessmen was confiscated in your ports in direct contravention of customary international laws. The Ethio-Eritrean reconciliation process takes more than what I have tried to mention here. The mistrust is deep. The anger of sense of betrayal is palpable. If you want to know more I think myself as one of those with soft-spot towards the Eritrean people.

      * please visit this page and find out yourself what I mean with the “mainstream” stuff (http://dehai.org/conflict/home.htm?commentaries.htm)

      Regards

      • Nitricc

        ” Eritrean state had caused so much suffering to my country”
        hahahah which one is your country? are you talking about Ethiopia or Tigray?
        I get the greatest kick when a Tigryan says ” My country Ethiopia” so fake it is funny. when they want to attack Eritrea they mention Ethiopia. any other time it is Tigray. what a fake, but they are good at it.
        Why is all this emotional outburst? Well, the dream of Greater Tigray is dead, thanks to Eritrea and Eritreans, so, Eritrea will pay for this for ever. Because that all was left to insure the greater Tigray dream. TPLF gangs took land from Wello and Gonder then they had audacity to do the same from Eritrea and the Eritreans not only told the TPLF gangs to go to hell but killed the entire dream all together. So, T-K I understand your eulogy of the Greater Tigray. Let me tell you one more time, the dream of greater Tigray is dead and buried. Stop crying and blaming Eritrea for your every freaking misery. Worry about your country, whichever it is and leave Eritrea to Eritreans.

      • saay7

        Selam Yodita:

        Notice how TK describes the horrific tragedy of the bombing of Mekele as “intentional” despite the fact that the Eritrea Ethiopia Claims Commission was not persuaded by Ethiopias argument that it was intentional.

        According to Harbeyna Weyanai, for one to be accepted as a an Eritrean who is free from all of Shaebias toxicity, one must agree with EECC on its decisions regarding who started the war and disagree with it regarding whether the bombing of Mekele Ayder Ekementary School.

        I am now holding my breath waiting for Hayat, our ECCC enforcer, to correct TK and give him a long lecture about how his use of the word “intentional” gives us an insight into Weyane Mind etc etc.

        Saay

        • T. Kifle

          Dear SAAY,

          I am not talking about legal proceedings but a process of reconciliation as narrated by Yodita. Whether Ethiopia win or lose in the yes of EECC or EEBC, there was no military reason to drop bombs in rounds on a school compound. Reconciliation I guess is not about winning an argument through sheer might of the pen but having a compassionate heart and an a disposition for peace.

      • Asmerom

        Dear T.Kifle
        If you think graduates of dehai like Saay and likes will come with open heart to discuss the truth so to build a bridge between the people of Eritrea and Ethiopia you are wasting your time

      • haileTG

        Selamat T Kifle,

        I totally believe that the current debate has no value to advancing the cause of peace and healing among our peoples. But if the discussants insist on going through this, then I would like your FACTUAL refutation of the following:

        1 – Aider school boming was intentional:

        “The EECC holds that Eritrea’s four sorties resulted in two strikes hitting Mekelle airport and two strikes hitting the Ayder neighborhood in Mekelle. Nevertheless, the commission is not prepared to draw the conclusion urged by Ethiopia, as it is not convinced that Eritrea deliberately targeted a civillian neighborhood. Eritrea has obvious and compelling reasons to concentrate its limited air assets on Ethiopia’s air fighting capability – its combat aircraft and Mekelle airport, which is with in 20 – 25 minutes flight time from Asmara. More over it is not credible that Eritrea would see advantage in setting the precedent of targeting civilians, given Ethiopia’s apparent air superiority.”

        2 – Eritrea started the war

        – The commission that was envisioned by the Algeries agreement to be set up to investigate the origins of the war was never set up. The AU was supposed to spearhead that task. So there was NO investigation into the start of the war.

        – The deliberations made within EECC was not mandated for investigation of “Origins of War” rather to investigate claims.

        – The EECC had acknowledged that it didn’t consider events prior to May 6 and hence its finding shouldn’t be used outside the express intent it was made for, i.e. calculate damages.It also found your country for needlessly escalating the conflict and engaging in acts that would border war crimes.

        Concluding remarks:

        It is sad that we still lack a genuine desire to cultivate mutual respect among or fraternal peoples. Again, I understand this conversations have no value whatsoever other than to give the regime of IA a breathing space to continue the destruction of Eritrea. I fully stand by Yodita in this case and regret that people are falling for Saba (the unknown variable here) ploy to distract meaningful discussion.

        Hey Saba, if declaration of war is so bad to you, what do you make of getting your A#$#% whipped in March 2012 for the whole freaking world to see and IA bend down an take it like a little terrified girl?

        Cheers all

        • T. Kifle

          Dear haile TG,

          OK, then what is that you wanted to stand by Yodita? let’s say for argument’s sake that the raid was unintentional, does that absolve Eritrea from responsibility? Does that in any way validate IA’s argument that ኲናት ሕጊ የብሉን? What are you trying to tell me? conventional wisdom has it that there are circumstances civilians could be targeted for many reasons but once the damages happen the responsible body takes a corrective measure explaining the possible reasons and apologize. Did you see any of that on the Eritrean side? Did you remember that Ethiopia apologized for the three people killed in Shambko during combat from air? You see, nothing can bring the lost lives back but it’s saddening to see people go miles in the insensitivity scale to make their points

          • haileTG

            Selamat T Kifle

            Far from it. I like Yodita’s take in this that distinction needs to be drawn between the Eritrean people (hence their fundamental and lawful interests) and the actions of a wanton group in PFDJ. This goes without saying.

            How do you expect Eritreans to communicate their apology? We have a regime who refuses to give condolences to Lampedusa victims and instead tells the parents and family of the dead that their children and relatives were thieves! So, you want me or saay or Yodita to get a formal apology letter addressed to the innocent causality of the Ayder incident from a psychotic despot? Or do you want that from PFDJ mekete organizers or their little YPFDJ brats? Can you name an organized Eritrean opposition that condone the acts or the incident?

            Dear T Kifle

            It takes two to tango brother. If you say

            1 – EECC says Ayder incident wasn’t deliberate – but it doesn’t matter we think it is.

            2 – EECC says it didn’t deal with “Origins of War” rather merely considered a specific cut date to calculated damages – but it doesn’t matter we will take it to mean it has conclusively verified the “Origins of War”

            3 – EEBC says the border is demarcated as per colonial treaties and applicable laws on a final and binding basis – but even that doesn’t matter it needs to be reopened and discussed

            Then what is the point of using rule of law for advancing any form of mutually respectful and cooperative future for our nations. If Eritrea has a responsible and half decent regime then they would have known how to act in accepted diplomatic norms. Eritrea is under brutal attack from with in and once that comes to an end it represents a powerful and significant partner in the region and its fundamental interested would be respected. The problem is that currently it is at war with itself and demanding “national apology” or generalizing the nature and manner of Eritreans by sampling the provocations offered to you by regime royalists that must are not warranted to represent all Eritreans.

            When we are good and steady we would discuss this matters in fair and square manner, but for now…hmmm you got us in pretty bad time and it is hoped that you don’t join the a U-turn camp 🙂 and make Ali-S’ day all smiles 🙂

          • dawit

            Selamat TK and haile T.G.
            I visited Makale few years ago and you know what the biggest Turist attraction in Mekele is a Museum dedicated to the four children who were victims of the air raid, be it unintentional or deliberate. Now imagine if Eritreans were to erect museums for every school, Church, Mosque that was hit by Ethiopian fighter jets over 30 years and women, children killed in those air raids to remind the next generation and visitors tourists how Ethiopian were barbaric people. How many such museums could be erected in Vietnam, Cambodia, Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq…wherever a pilot missed his target and dropped a bomb? What is the purpose of that museum except to perpetuate the enmity of the two people indefinitely? The TPLF exploited that incident to incite the people inside Ethiopia during the border war they instigated and started. Despite TK’s crocodile tears After visiting that museum at Makale, I have concluded that there is no intention on the short run or long run to establish good neighborhood in the region, by TPLF/EPRDF. The border war started by manufacturing lies, drawing new map for Tigrai, Coffee Export, Foreign Exchange, cross border trade etc was simply designed to robe Eritrean their wealth in Ethiopia. Tigrians inherited the properties and businesses of Eritreans and became rich overnight.

          • Rahwa T

            dawit,

            It is ‘interesting’ to read that 70K foreign citizens who were colonized by a poor and backward African colonizer (the only African nation that joins the European colonizers club) for 3 decades were evicted from the colonizer’s land to their motherland. And this was done to rob estimated billions of Dollar worth of their properties which they accumulated during the 30 years period when they were living under the yolk of subjugation and treated as fifth citizens by their colonizers. And yet this was done by none but a weak minority group that was trained, armed, and came to power by the world fiercest rebel that calls itself Goblel Qerni Africa.

            Although we are used to it, it is also ironic to read again in this same site that hundreds of thousands of citizens of the foreign invading power were let to cross the Mereb and back to their country with all the proper care under
            the supervision of the International Red Cross Society.

            God knows if peace would prevail in this part of the globe when highly educated personalities are having tied-tongue and opts playing the worst political game. How long would it requires for real reconciliation?

          • dawit

            Dear Rahwa, I would not say as 5th. citizens, may be second class and lived as liberators of their ‘mother’. I am tempted to say never, but as optimist Peace may come Perhaps after the next great drought and pestilence that will engulf the region and it will come sooner than you think. It will be greater than the famine we saw in the last century. God sees all the injustices going down from above.

          • Abrham

            Dear dawit,

            There is no museum in Mekelle for those kids but a school and no they are more than ten not four even though a life is irreplaceable.

          • dawit

            Dear Abrham, Thanks for the correction on the number, I guess 14 people lost their lives in that accident. As to the Museum, I personally visited it and if you want a proof some visitor wrote on it ”

            “Inside the classroom with the hole in the roof is a museum to the killings. The desks of the students are still in the room, many of them with holes from pieces of shrapnel. Three students died in this classroom – the surprise is that more didn’t. Along the wall are tables where the detritus of the attack is displayed, cardboard casing of the cluster bombs, anti-personnel canisters, metal shell casings.

            More riveting are the posters and photos that show the victims. Eleven children died in the attack, along with a teacher and a woman with a baby on her back. Their blood spattered bodies are shown in image after image. Now at the school a small shrine and a line of trees has been planted to remember each of the victims.”

        • Ermias

          Selamat Hailuwa, you concluded your powerful comment by:

          “It is sad that we still lack a genuine desire to cultivate mutual respect among or fraternal peoples. Again, I understand this conversations have no value whatsoever other than to give the regime of IA a breathing space to continue the destruction of Eritrea. I fully stand by Yodita in this case and regret that people are falling for Saba (the unknown variable here) ploy to distract meaningful discussion.”

          I actually probably have something to do with this particular debate too. Fanti Ghana was lecturing Nitricc about IA’s true persona and I told Fanti that a quote from TK to Saba applies here to Nitricc as well…you know bzemen wube…Saba then picked it up and ignited the fire.

          That said, while I am very sympathetic to your plea for us to focus on PFDJ and IA and apply the hammer blow, I also personally do not mind so much these kinds of digressions from time to time. Because, what if what TK is saying is the sentiment of the entire EPRDF (or the Tirgrean people)? We need to be ready to address these feelings of resentment lest they start bursting and causing more difficult problems.

          • Nitricc

            Ermias, take a stand. why are you flip-flaping like you know what? mannnnn?
            what are you trying to say when you say ”
            …….you know bzemen wube…….
            what does it mean? you don’t smoke the good stuff do you. you sound a Jemaican high on crush.
            Take a stand, it is okay you can support the Tigryans, they need you more than we will ever. just take a stand.

          • Ermias

            Nitricc, wube syndrome is equivalent to tsemamsi hade derfu, kemizi kemaka.

            What are my choices of the stands? Please list them for me and I will pick one.

          • SA

            Ermi,
            I have a friend who is a well-connected former TPLF member, and I sometimes notice the resentment and hurt in him about what he perceives are condescending attitudes by Eritreans against Tigryans. Just recently, he told me about a drama made by Eritreans in Israel and was upset that the Eritrean performers made fun of Tigrayans using Tigrayan accent. I actually felt so bad for him when I saw the pain in his eyes and voice as he expressed his disappointment in the performers. I had to comfort him by telling him that increasing numbers of Eritreans are abandoning their condescending and arrogant attitude against Tigrayans.
            As I follow these high brow discussions, it is clear that most of the Eritrean writers do not even want to acknowledge the condescending attitude of Eritreans against the people of Tigray for a long period of time, and a highly intelligent TPLF such as Kifle is writing not only out of his wealth of knowledge but also out of some lingering hurt feelings. One would normally expect Kifle to write with a proud attitude after his country essentially routed our country in the third offensive (or to use Haile Drue’s word “At’alaKiyom’na”), but what I am reading from him are writings that express some resentment and whose goals seem more geared to changing attitudes rather than educating us about the past. And he definitely is, in my opinion, a good representation of TPLF people, especially those who are into politics. I personally am grateful that he is an active contributor in this forum, and this forum would be poorer without his contribution.

            SA

        • saay7

          Hailat:

          The reason it’s important to discuss this issue is because it has an impact on future relations between governments and therefore States.

          Whenever an issue goes to court, it’s perfectly ordinary for a person who lost the case to feel “We was robbed!” The person may blame the legal counsel, the judge or the jury. But in the end, the person must abide by the ruling, even while grumbling all the way.

          TK said that Eritreas bombing of Mekele was intentional. For him to say that, he has to believe it. For him to believe that, he must find it within the realm of reason that his old comrades in the EPLF are quite capable of bombing a group of school children. These sets of beliefs get him to one conclusion: the EPLF are savages and those who support them support savagery. And this is not too far from his recommendations that the mainstream Eritrean has a lot of learning to do before he can be considered trustworthy with matters of governing a State. And since to me TK is a perfect representation of Weyane elite thought, it stands to reason that that is what the Weyane elite, who hold powerful positions in the EPRDF and the neighboring State of Tigray believe. And this then goes a long way towards explaining the EPRDF attitude towards Eritrran opposition groups (it’s not an accident that ARDUF and DMLEK are their favorites.)

          Horrible things happen in war time. When they do, the antagonists can ridicule each other’s military capabilities (my old nemesis at Dagmawi used to say the Eritrean Air Force has never hit a military target) and that’s fair criticism. When horrific tragedies occur leaders have a responsibility to apologize (As Eritreas then foreign minister Haile DeruE did, as did the then Ethiopian FM did when Ethiopian planes bombed deported Eritreans sheltered by the UN.). But when one says a horrific tragedy is deliberate, and he says it not in the heat of the moment, but 16 years after it happened, 10 years after it was ruled not intentional, we have a problem.

          saay

          • Rahwa T

            Selamat Saleh,

            You said “…..when Ethiopian planes bombed deported Eritreans sheltered by the UN.).” Could you please substantiate with evidence (pictures) of the UN Camp bombed by the Ethiopian Air Force, so that it helps us to condemn our Air Force, please?

          • haileTG

            Hey saay, pressed for time (will address our sister Rahwa a bit later)

            Yes discussing different issues for different reasons, not least for the reasons you hold isn’t bad. The distinction I like to draw is between riding your bike down a steep hill and riding your bike WITHOUT BRAKES down a steep hill. My reason for acknowledging the futility of such discussion is because they come at a cost and I am not particularly interested to pay those costs for no return what so ever.

            As you see here such discussions are hijacked to polarize both peoples further, legitimize the single potent pretext the regime in Eritrea uses to conduct its repression, and quite frankly gives excuse for those mercenary of the regime to attack neighboring peoples and slander the Eritrean justice seekers. So I find it necessary to include a declaimer that the talk is futile and among polarized people with no leverage what so ever to change the facts in the ground other than to confuse and polarize each other further.

            So, I do appreciate where you are coming from but urge you not to go for ሁሉም ነገር ወደ ጦር ግንባር! እናሸንፋለን! ኣሜን ጌታ የተባረከ ይሁን! type contradiction 🙂

            Cheers

        • Rahwa T

          Dear Haile TG and Yodita,

          As T Kifle said it, the debate is on bringing reconciliation
          between the two brotherly people, and not legal. I am wondering if Haile TG and Yodita (not to
          mention Saleh Yenus) are debating their argument with consideration of the
          geographical location of the air-raided Children School. The Mekele Air Port
          South) and the Aider elementary School (North-east) are located at far apart
          and the there is a sea of the town in between. Had the locations were close to each other, we,
          at south of Mereb, could have accepted it as logical? To say that targeting the
          school was unintentional after killing small children in the middle of day is
          freaky. And I can’t help but wondering whether
          both of you (the debaters) have your own children and also the way you perceive
          humanity.

          Haile TG, sorry but I can’t see how a brilliant gentle
          man like would dare to say you would have the stand by Yodita. I think
          sometimes, we should stop being partisan especially when issues like that of
          Aider School are vividly to be seen.

          Haftikum

          Rahwa T

          To T. Kifle: thank you very much for the fight to show
          the truth and defending it.

      • Yodita

        Ato T.Kifle,

        When you say mainstream in the Western countries, it means the wide majority. Obviously, when you use it in the Eritrean context, it is sensible to take it to mean the wide majority of Eritrea. If you want to narrow it down to mean “… the shakers and makers of opinions in Eritrean field of politics…” say the hell so!!!!! You generalize too damn much!!! If you are more specific may be it would help. Of course you are still accusing ALL the “shakers and makers of opinions in Eritrean field of politics” because you either lack the humility or sensitivity to qualify it with ‘some’ or a ‘few’. Since we do not have crystal bowls or are mind readers, unless specifically explained we cannot understand who you are accusing of ‘evil’. In my book, you are too pointed and rather lacking in reconciliation. It is fairness and objectivity we are all SEEKING in order to arrive at reconciliation and healing. Your hammering one side was evil and wrong is painfully distracting. The dual nature of things (good and bad) is naturally inherent in all (human) processes. In this website, some (e.g. Amanuel Hidrat, Mahmud Saleh, Horizon, to mention but very few) are attempting to create linkages of the good and amply demonstrating badly need wisdom and tolerance while you seem to be anchored in pointing a finger at a poorly specified and quantified hypothetical ‘evil’.

        You say “…Eritrean state had caused so much suffering to my country …”. What caused the most suffering to your country (read Tigray) is the late emperor! The very Ghedli that you do not tire to demean, at one point in time helped breath life into TPLF and will go down in history as such.

        Haile GT has said loud and clear what the bombardment was all about. All I want to add is that it was a subsequent reaction to a bombardment by TPLF. May be this fact means nothing to you.

    • Saba

      Dear Yodita,
      Thank you for eloquently stating what i was thinking.
      Dear T. Kifle, probably you believe that any eritrean who criticizes TPLF must be brainwashed by IA since TPLF has not done anything wrong so far. But i can tell you that we can oppose PFDJ and oppose the betrayal of TPLF simultaneously. Opposing PFDJ does not necessarily add up to supporting TPLF(is disinhibition the same as stimulation?).
      You are trying to find ouy why the eritrean people is not in love with TPLF and you are looking the answer in Ghedli experience. It can be explained in part by the betrayal during 1998 and by the betrayal with the demarcation agreement. PFDJ and TPLF could not resolve their dispute by dialogue so they went to court and stated everything they wanted to say including the “village division story”. Then when the court has finally decided, your TPLF refuses the verdict and requests to dialogue knowing that they can not dialogue, that is why they went to court in the first place. Can the TPLF respect its agreements? Well ras weldemichael suhul(betrayed by ras alula) would have advised Eritreans to read his poems. If you want to help Eritreans, support the EEBC decision and DIA will quickly fall.

      • dine

        Dear saba
        do u honestly think with out solving the root cause of the problem ( Eritrea’s parasitic demand) ethiopia and eritrea can solve their problem peacefully by just implementing EEBC decision?

        • Saba

          Dear dine,
          What do you mean by “the problem: Eritrea’s parasitic nature”?

          • dine

            Dear saba,
            i mean, there was negotiation between ethiopia and eritrea before the war started, the negotiation was about trade, the faith of citizen, border demarcation and so on .eritrean gov want the stats-qua to continue in order to carry on the illegal activity but the ethiopian gov want the low of the ETHIOPIA to be respected. at the end gobela eritrea start the war to influence the negotiation but end up in mai aini, shimelba sina.

  • Dear Ermias,

    Can the ultra-nationalist enablers of the PFDJ system and its diehard apologists change their skin or the leopard (DIA) its spots. I do not think so.

    That is why weeding out those who are corrupted by absolute power and have committed criminal acts against the people under the PFDJ system of government and dismantling the whole system is the
    only way forward. The Eritrean people in general, and especially the ordinary people who were mislead and support the PFDJ system, can be re-educated and made a strong pro-democracy force.

    • Ermias

      Horizon, I would say the most likely scenario is that IA will leave the scene either by natural death or by force. Then very slow and drawn out process of installing democratic institutions. It’s really hard for me to foresee a Somali type situation. The generals, possible future warlords, do not have any widespread diehard following. Even if a lot of people are resentful of PFDJ officials, I don’t think they will pick up arms against them. I know this off topic you mentioned but I just wanted to state my gut feeling of the likelihood of how the change may come.

  • AMEN

    Now doe’s everybody see the FALSE CONFIDENCE AND FALSE PRIDE AND FEEL
    GOOD OUTWARD ATTITUDE OF THE WOYANES. especially to show conempt of
    the Eritrean people and the intellectuals which he always come to them to save
    him when it is dangerously cornered and is about to die. But when they think they
    are close to reaching their target or no danger around they bellitle them and their
    contributions.
    The woyanes and TPLFs like to belittle
    the intellectuals and discount their scholarly and patriotic(love of their people) advices.
    Many patriotic Eritrean and Ethiopian scholars have advised against the steps TPLF
    woyane has being taking in contempt of public outcry for justice and peace lest this
    present scenario hanging over the cliff and attempting to hug a rock doesn’t happen.
    So why do we have to worry if the woyanes died and their system get dismantled by
    patriotic Ethiopian people. We have told them for years but they chose to give us a
    deaf ear…………now I really do not care whatever happens to them.
    The had the opportunity to say enough is enough and disband and dissolve their
    TPLF party for their own and Tigrian peoples sake.when MELES was doing exactly
    that. But they chose their personal benefits against the people and the country of
    Tigray.

  • Rodab

    Hello Fanti Ghana,

    I like to believe there is SOME truth to your claim as to why Ethiopia deported Eritreans in 1998. I think the Ethiopian regime panicked at the rapid developments on the ground and had to resort to everything it saw necessary to guard its rule against real and perceived threats. I also believe ‘patriotism show off’ played certain role in the decision making process. That is, having turned its back on our regime and facing Ethiopia ‘on its own’ for the first time, it [the ethio regime] couldn’t have it any other way but to go the extra miles to show its patriotism. It was a consolidation necessity.

    An added element to this is, this was also the time when extremists like Ghebru Asrat and Siye Abraha were in a position to make differences. I said it before and I say it again that I give PMZ (RIP) big credit for overcoming the Ghebrus and Siyes in 2001. It was good for Ethiopia, Eritrea and the region as a whole. It could have been much better had the reformist side won in our government, too. But what can you do, we are stack with half blessing and half curse.

    Having said that, I find your claim to be highly not credible that PIA would say future wars between the two countries, if occurred, would be waged inside Addis. I don’t believe that. Not for a sec! Even Eyoba wouldn’t buy that one! Would you buddy?
    Peace!

    • Nitricc

      I thought Finta was the credible one. Well I am wrong. What is about the tigryans? What exactly is their beef?
      They think they have made as of Eritrea and Eritreans are dead. I don’t blame them for thinking that way through, even the Great SAAY was telling T-kifle to be nice to the ” demoralized Eritreans” I don’t know what SAAY is talking about but no we are not demoralized. To the contrary we, my generation, are hopeful than ever. We are excited to claim our responsibility;we are ready to built one of the most rebust army who can protect and serve the people and nation. We are excited to imminent unmolested constitution
      So we can have it our way. We are excited we are to have an contaminated election history so we can do it our way. The hope and excitement is in full swing. Once again the eritrean sprite is well and alive. I just wanted friends and foes to know about it.
      While Eritrean future nothing but bright, our Tigryan brothers are in unkown situation and the desparetion is obvoues. Look how T kifle is venting? Look how Hayat is acting? Look how all the tigryans are behaving? They know they did us wrong and they know the judgement day is coming. The so called election is coming and they don’t have their master of decite PMMZ to save them. They are screwed. So, please understand their frastration and bad wishes towards Eritrea. Yes, the Oromo are there going no where. Yes the Amhara are there going no where. Eritreans have nothing to do with their dailema. We tried to their to be their brothers, we tried to be on their side and then they shoot for the heart. It is not hate or bragging rather declaring Eritrea never dead or “demoralized”
      Let me say it. She have Nitricc.
      Now who got a question? Or who is doubting?

      • Rodab

        Nitricc ma man,
        How does Eritrea has you?
        If she was to speak, she would say “Nitricc my son, for how long are you going to hold off your obligation of national service, what have I done to deserve this? I have many sons and daughters with that many personalities. ከስዒ ኣደ ጉራምራ. I am talking now of those who work with my interest in their heart. Some of them have served me for years and are still doing so. Some, after serving for years, leave. And when they do, it is your wrath they face first thing. Although as a mother my stomach hurts to see my sons fight against each other, I understand why you, Nitricc, do that; it is for me, for Mommy. You know what makes Mommy even happier with you? For you to come home and contribute. Come my baby, come home. Mommy is waiting.”

      • Pappillon

        Nitricc,

        You have a heart, I give you that. It could as well be a sign of leadership but you need a diplomatic finesse lest you sound arrogant. It is great that you maintain an upbeat attitude despite the tremendous challenges and bleak situation but again, it shouldn’t come at the expense of trashing others. If your dispassionate ambition to see a better Eritrea is based on denying the other side of the fence a gratification, that is absolutely a wrong take simply because, the death of another person is not necessarily a cure for your ailment. To put it differently, suppose as you said it, the next election in Ethiopia goes awry, how is that going to change the situation in Eritrea? It doesn’t make any sense. As such, it is better to narrow down your focus on how to better the lives of your people irrespective what ever is going on next door. That is called clarity of objectives bereft of unnecessary emotional outbursts. Eritrea is down but never knocked out.

      • Fanti Ghana

        Nitricc,
        My brother, if I have offended you in any way it was never intentional. I am still with you in many ways than you think. Remember my 75% + agreement the other day? Relatively, that is a lot of give-ins. My only difference with you is how we view PIA, the man. You keep associating the
        Eritrean resilience with his quality of leadership. What you are missing is that the Eritrean revolution was won because Eritrean heroes, with chest full of grenades, diving under tanks to blow them up. It was won because Eritrean heroes dived on top bombs to martyr them selves for their comrades. It was won because every Eritrean laborer and maid in foreign lands gave their last penny for the cause. It was won because Eritrean heroes focused on the final prize instead of on the short comings of their leadership.

        If it wasn’t for the fascist tendencies of the then EPLF leadership, Eritrean struggle wouldn’t have taken 30 years plus TPLF to finish. Look what he has done to Eritrea even after it was handed to him in silver plate. Almost all Eritreans were behind him. All his neighbor countries were friendly with him. He has absolutely nothing left to do except to hand down power to the next generation
        and retire with grace. That would have made him the greatest leader ever lived. It is not in him. The ultimate responsibility of any government is to protect its people from any and all harm. Can you say he is doing just that? Can you honestly believe that the US, CIA, UN, AOU, EU, and Ethiopia are out to get him? Can you honestly convince yourself, let alone others, that you are supporting him because he is saving Eritrea from these formidable enemies? Do you know who Haile Debas is? Google him. He had to literally run out of Eritrea along with the so called G-13. One thing PIA has always been consistent about is his phobia of any intellectual Eritrean. He has killed, jailed, or kicked out more Eritrean intellectuals than all of Eritrea’s enemies combined!

        Nitricc, I know why you want to save him. I wish I believed he was worth saving, but I don’t. His ideology, whatever it is these days, has consumed him beyond recognition. As if two generations of Eritreans haven’t scattered all over the world look at what he is causing as we speak. I believe he is killing the essence of Eritrea and you are defending him because you believe that he is the essence of Eritrea. That is our deference; nothing else.

        By the way, I have a cousin who was born and raised in Eritrea and she is now in Tigray. She moved from Eritrea to Tigray about 10 years ago. That is after the war and all. I will tell you what she told me about how she was treated back in Asmara and you will be proud and ashamed at same time. You will see.

        • Ermias

          Excellent analysis Fanti G.

          Like T. Kifle said to Saba however, ‘bzemen wube ztsememes, ziban wube endabele yinebir.’ The brainwashed Nsu crowed, who are typified by none other than Nitricc, will never wake up, smell the coffee and say ‘enough is enough already.’

          • Fanti Ghana

            I normally do that Ermi. Either I won’t start or I won’t continue, but I like Nitricc. There is this pure honesty in him I just cannot ignore. I won’t give up on him just yet, and I hope he won’t give up on me either.

          • Saba

            Hi Ermias,
            Is this one “neger DiliyLiy by induction”?
            In the end It is TPLF who declared a full scale war, resulting in the death of innocent Eritreans and Ethiopians. Opposing PFDJ is one thing but “santifying” TPLF is another thing.

          • Ermias

            Saba, I actually liked that quote from TK and I was trying to see if I had it memorized.

            As to the war, it’s like, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

          • Saba

            Dear Ermias,
            Are you attributing the responsibilities to both PFDJ and TPLF? I asked T. Kifle what are the wrongdoing of TPLF to Eritreans and his answer was almost none and did not include this one.
            I like that quote too, i have renamed it as “wube syndrome” since i see also “PFDJ syndrome”

          • Ermias

            Saba, the arguments on both sides of the equation are very convincing so I gave up because I didn’t know what to believe when it comes to who started/escalated the war. That’s why I said “which came first, the chicken or the egg” because people are spilt on this since the days of Aristotle.

          • T. Kifle

            Dear Ermias,

            You see when IA rolled his tanks into Badme, Assab port was the main sea outlet save the little shipment.via Djibouti(6% of Ethiopia’s bulk sea transport of the time which was limited to humanitarian supplies to the south eastern part of the country). In the ABCs of military tactics and strategies, you don’t declare war on a country where much of your eggs are placed in. You wound observe that many measures taken before angering a belligerent man like IA such as shifting the port to Djibouti,emptying the loads in Assab and Massawa ports quickly, deploying military forces through out the border and finally declare it formally with in the house of the legislator etc which non had occurred prior to may 1998.

            The thing is Eritrea tried so many sabotages even before 1998 while the Ethiopian side downplayed the complaints keep coming from the locals at Badme, Bada, Adi-Irob, etc. The licit trading which the Eritrean gov had involved in reached their height of stupidity beyond which the government could tolerate and Ethiopia wanted to put an end on the daytime robbery of organized gang almost in all sectors of the economy (agriculture, financial etc). They smuggled out all kinds of produces in collaboration with Ethiopian-rent-seeking business people and succeeded to put Eritrea on the map of coffee exporters. This seems to look as an “urban legend” for the likes of the SAAY( a great man on his own right) but it was true. In a bid to curb the rampant smuggling, the government of Tigray declared new laws that criminalized any licit trade between the two countries. Any outlaw in a smuggling business, had to serve 7 years behind bars. That stern legal measure dried up all the possibilities of IA’s way of business dealings for good but still he was in business infusing the Birr that was piled up in the Eritrean banks through its Embassy at Addis and the Horn Bank , hurriedly changing it into hard-currency transfer it to Asmara abusing all diplomatic decorum and immunity. Again that had meted out with the same fate as the inter-border smuggling.

            while doing all those activities IA had in fact used to communicate his intentions, instigating minor infractions at the borders(In the places where Eritrean writers are very much fond of to recount) reminding the Ethiopian government that things were heading from bad to worst and wouldn’t remain the same if the his concerns were not addressed to the best of his satisfaction. His pleas was not heeded. That was the last straw that broken the back of the camel. The rest his history.

            The problem is the frenzy with which the educated class responded to the situation. They simply bought IA’s claim at the snap of his fingers and piled up all kind of defamation shameful in content but indicative of their true nature. Now, even after the EBBC rule that Eritrea attacked Ethiopia unprovoked, they have to find ways explaining their strange positions of the time with the mundane refrain “Ethiopia escalated the war”. If who started the war is much difficult to grasp these writers and nationalists, there is little hope they would admit that ghedli had detrimental flaws that gave rise to the current quandary Eritrea is in.

            Regards
            TK

          • Jo

            Selamat T.Kifle,

            Excellent!!! It was all IA fault. We Eritreans were fooled, thanx to you, now we see the light. All the Eritrean writers and intellectuals were either in it or were fooled like the rest of us too. We now know about the EEBC ruling that Eritrea attacked Ethiopia. You won!!!!!

            Now, can you say the border should be demarcated according to the EEBC rulling, unless ofcourse you are going to buy someone else’s frenzy at the snap of his finger. You don’t think the disease that infected the Eritrean scholars is contagious, do you?

            Luwam zelewo leiti!!!

          • T. Kifle

            Dear Jo,

            If you are IA, then seat with your counterpart and discuss on details of its implementations. It’s as simple as that. If you have doubt on the “sanity” of your nationalists please visit the Ethiopia-Eritrea conflict page at dehai and see if you would come out of it in much divergent view than mine.

          • Hayat Adem

            …and if you were IA, you should have accepted to start demarcation on the 85% of the border about which Ethiopia agreed to start demarcation without dialogue, and sit to discuss on the rest 15% as T. Kifle said or keep it in limbo as he is doing to date. But that way, at least, we would have 85% of the border demarcated by now had it not been for IA’s rejection.

          • Hayat Adem

            “‘Now, can you say the border should be demarcated according to the EEBC
            rulling, unless ofcourse you are going to buy someone else’s frenzy at
            the snap of his finger. You don’t think the disease that infected the
            Eritrean scholars is contagious, do you?”
            Jo, are you saying to Kifle “I’ve the disease but you don’t. Therefor, do the reasonable thing without expecting me to reciprocate” which is tantamount to saying I have “an insanity license, but he doesn’t”. Otherwise, you could have said a word or two about EECC and then proceed to EEBC.
            Hayat

          • saay7

            Selamat Jo:

            There never was, there never is, there never will be a time when TK will disagree with the public positions of his beloved Weyane. This is because he worships at Our Lady of Democratic Centralism which requires that issues maybe debated for days, weeks, months. But once a decision is made, everybody must toe the line.

            Take the issue of the EEBCs rulings. There are any number of positions Eritreans have taken on it. But have you heard of a single Weyanai (hard liner, soft liner, moderate) who has said or written that whether we like it or not, we gave our word that we would implement the ruling without preconditions? Not once in the last 10 years.

            What does this tell us? Let’s ask TK: it tell us there is something wrong with mainstream Eritrean thoughts and actions. Mainstream Eritrean is not defined by Eritreans acts in times of peace (such as Eritreans organizing to raise funds for Tigray) but in times of war (the Dehai pages.)

            So, Jo, our problem is two fold, two aggressive campaigns. One from Isaias to humble us and make us meek subjects, the other from Harbeyna Weyanai who long declared that we must be taught a lesson in humility, one we will never forget.

            saay

          • dawit

            http://dev.ico.org/historical/1990-99/PDF/exportscalyear.pdf Here data gathered by International Coffee Association (ICA) which keep statistics that shows” Eritrea on the map of coffee exporters” in Africa. Therefore SAAY this is not an “Urban Legend” we have the proof from ICA
            Ermias why do you have difficulty believing who started the war at Bademe? It is not a chicken and egg Aristotle’s problem. It was declared by EEBC a neutral body said ‘Eritrea started the war unprovoked by TPLF. You must trust EEBC, even though they made a slight error declaring Bademe belonged to Eritrea. Don’t worry about that because Ethiopia is working hard to reverse that mistake by EEBC. We are relentlessly fighting at UN with our friend Suzan Rice to correct that. The ‘Dej Tinat’ is moving forward, thanks to our late PM who forged our road ahead of five points of Negotiation. You must know Deji xnat takes time but “Awetna Naygiden eyu”, because our friend Suzan have assured us Bademe belongs to Ethiopia. We trust in USA!

          • saay7

            Dawit:

            Nicely done. I opened the link and looked for “Eritrea” on the list but it must be written in lemon juice and you have to light a match to find it.

            But seriously, you have conclusively debunked the “Eritrea stole Ethiopias assets and became one of the worlds top coffee exporters” myth. For now. Some new awatista from the Ahnd Ethiopia club will repeat it in 2-3 months:)

            I forget who is it that asked that Eritreans open Horn Bank in Ethiopia despite clear regs that say that only Ethiopian nationals can open banks. And? Shouldn’t you take that question to Harbena Weyanai who allowed it to happen? Isn’t the point that we the people (Eritreans and Ethiopians) had no say when the TPLF and EPLF were negotiating port use deals and banking deals? All our discussions here are about how to have an accountable, representative government in Eritrea. I hope you are doing the same in Ethiopia.

            saay

          • dine

            saay
            by the time of Horn Bank there were a lot of eritreans hold Ethiopia’s ID even though they spouse to return their ID after the referendum. that was how they able to open the horn bank and it got shut down right after the war started.

          • saay7

            Dine:

            I guess you should have taken it up with your government because the document which begins with “We the nations, nationalities and people of Ethiopia” doesn’t allow for dual nationality:)

            saay

          • wolde ab

            T.Kifle
            More info about the infusion of birr: The two people who were responsible for this criminal act were, Girma Asmerom and an Ethiopian citizen named Melaku Segid whose father was a Shaleka in the Addis police.
            Melaku who had opened a bar around the Stadium area was supported by his “abro adeges” from the Arat Kilo and Cazainches area. Unbeknownst to them he had become a stooge for Girma.
            When the Ethiopian officials finally discovered what was going on, Melaku committed suicide.
            Wolde Ab.

        • Mahmud Saleh

          SALAM FANTI gHANA
          “If it wasn’t for the fascist tendencies of the then EPLF leadership, Eritrean struggle wouldn’t have taken 30 years plus TPLF to finish. Look what he has done to Eritrea even after it was handed to him in silver plate.”
          If you would please:
          1/ how familiar are you with Eritrean struggle?
          2/ What were the fascist tendencies of EPLF that you observe Eritreans (almost all) failed to recognize
          3/ Who handed him in silver plate?
          Thanks.

          • Fanti Ghana

            Hello Mahmud,
            The tripartite discussion you were having with Rahwa and TK the other day about TPLF/EPLF, who
            helped whom and with what was excellent. I wanted to thank you and add my own
            opinion to it then, but everything I wanted to say was being said by others with much better articulation. Hats off for that excellent contribution.

            So, may be, that telepathic communication I was having with you is what prompted you to ask
            these question (Hmm).

            Let me answer #3 first, because I see the pitfall.
            Given the “you wouldn’t be here/there without us” you were addressing the other day, it
            probably sounded like I was implying “handed to him by TPLF.” That wasn’t what I
            was thinking at all. I was thinking about the ground work done by ELF first,
            and then, the unopposed and unchallenged support he got from all Eritreans and
            friends after liberation. Just for the record TPLF has always been grateful for
            all the support extended to it by EPLF. My position regarding this subject is extremely
            similar to yours. We helped each other when and however it was necessary and we
            won.

            #1 and #2: I wouldn’t claim to be as familiar as someone who was EPLF tegadalai
            like you, but I am familiar enough to know some details that lead me to believe
            that Isaias has fascistic tendencies. I believe some of his atrocities—the
            number of and the type of people killed are well recorded, but let me address
            it in a broader sense. As it was very common in the entire region in the early
            70s, Marxist-Leninist ideologies were taken as the only true revolution worth
            having, and anyone who opposed any part of that ideology was an enemy of the state,
            the people, and even all humanity. How Isaias used this obsession with ideology
            is however unique. He turned it into a religion! Once you have a religion,
            naturally, a Saint has to follow. So, Isaias became the infallible, unquestionable, all knowing messiah without which Eritrea is undefinable. First blackmail, and then erase the memories of the real heroes. Where do you think the concept of “nHna nsu, nsu nHna” hatched from? That is exactly what fascists do. That means if he dies we die too, and by implication Eritrea dies. Let me
            rephrase: If Isaias dies Eritrea dies too. This kind of disease can only be created by those with fascistic tendencies.

    • T. Kifle

      Dear Rodab,

      Actually IA did say in the context FG has said it but it was after he invaded Badme. . ኣብ ዘሕሞም ክንሃርሞም ኢና. He said he had the capability to wreck havoc at the heart of Addis. That statement added to actions of some nationalists within Ethiopia did contribute to the hasty deportation of Eritreans.

    • haileTG

      Hey Rodab,

      So much as I hate to debate sensitive issues like this normally, I wanted to say something about the comment “future wars between the two countries, if occurred, would be waged inside Addis.” It wasn’t IA that said that. If you know, there use to be a website (pro-regime) called visafric.com during the Ethio-Ertrea war and I can’t remember of the writer but one of the prolific writers in Eritrean side at the time had written such. The only difference was the location he said was “inside Ethiopia” and gave a specific location btween Tigray and Wello if I am not mistaken. So, there was indeed such talk but not from IA rather from writers. I think IA said that he can reach any target inside Ethiopia at will.

    • Fanti Ghana

      Hello Rodab,
      In the first 3 years of TPLF’s existence, there were very few tegadelti who had a clear stand on the Eritrean struggle for independence (this may surprise some of you but Meles wasn’t one of them). Most of them from not having enough information about it but some of them were just victims of
      the “Eritrea atsheTem” desensitization campaign when they were still in high school.

      Once TPLF adapted the Eritrean struggle for independence as just cause and democratic by its nature, those who were vocal about “nay Eritrea Hto Biherawi ember hagerawi Hto keKhewun yeblun” we thought were silenced once and for all, but, it turned out that they were waiting for an
      opportune time to bring this very subject up or to avenge it in some fashion.

      However indirect, they did bring it up by accusing Meles Zenawi being soft on Eritrea
      with the added flare of “patriotism” you mentioned above. The famous “TPLF split” happened for this very reason. Those who couldn’t wait to wage war vs. those who wanted to wait until a better solution was found. Although those individuals with grudges against Eritrea were ultimately defeated,
      but they were not the sole reason why the war proceeded.

      Who and what forced the war is PIA’s stubbornness and nothing else. By refusing to get out of all land Eritrea captured by force he gave EPRDF (Meles to some) no chance to prevent the war. T. Kifle has explained this subject very eloquently a few days ago.

      It is understandable that after hearing what Asrat, Siye, and the like had to say about Eritrea/ns for an Eritrean to be apprehensive toward Tigreans, but I want everyone to understand that most TPLFites have been fighting that very group’s mind-set from day one. Notice what they ended up doing after their sound defeat.

      Regarding PIA’s interview, if I am lucky I will find it, or if I am very lucky Haile TG will find it for me, if I am super lucky you will just believe me as we keep knowing each other, but if none of that happens I
      will bow out covered with shame. For what it is worth, as a human being I swear to you with all that I am that was really what he said.

      PS: I see Haile and T Kifle trying to make peace between us, but I am posting what I wrote before I read their replies.
      Another PS: Haile TG, now I see why you are absolutely the greatest!!
      Sorry Yodita, I have a suspicion you are an alien anyway!

    • Eyob Medhane

      Rodab,

      Oh, I would buy that very much. The psycho has said that and his supporters all over Ethiopia were echoing it arrogantly at their fund raising efforts to fund the war, which was declared on the country that they were living in, Hence, part of the reason for the deportation. Ask Girma Asmerom. (I assume, you guys are buddies. 🙂 ) He was there at the time calling on Eritreans, who were living in Ethiopia calling on to fund raise for the war effort. He will fill you in….

    • saay7

      Selamat Rodab:

      For what it’s worth, this is the one I know.

      The direct quote attributed to an Eritrean official is: “Should there be any more wars, they would have to be fought beyond Alewaha.”

      Pause for dramatic effect, here’s how the meaning changes completely:

      Ethiopian historian asked EPLF and TPLF officials a series of questions. One, direct at the EPLF was: in a hypothetical war between the TPLF and the “Amhara” who would you support? 85% said the TPLF: One Eritrean government official said: Get this: 85. 7% said: “We will go to Alewaha and defend the TPLF.”

      The historian (Alemseged Abbay) kept the names anonymous, but those of us who had heard the government official making the exact same declaration in public (92-96) knew exactly who the official was.

      saay

      • Eyob Medhane

        Sal,

        I say it again and again and again. You are an expert in bending a straight arrow to nine different curves. I have no idea what was said at the meeting, which some Eritreans attended about Tigray development has to do with Eritrean officials saying “they have the ability to strike right at the heart of Addis”. No. It doesn’t give it context. It’s just irrelevant. Isayas’ quote for the interviewer does not seem to be mixed up with anything either. Knowing his penchant for arrogance and uttering stupid stuff to reports “It’s easy to create instability anywhere” doesn’t seem his M.O to speak about something that he wants to deride. Next, you’ll tell us that Isayas never said “getting out of Bademe means….” whatever crap he’s said…. You know what I mean…

        • saay7

          Eyobai:

          Ah, you and temper tantrums. I could get you the quote from the book (including page number of book), and I could also get you Isaias’s “easy to create instability anywhere” quote.

          The first, future wars will be fought in Ethiopia in defense of TPLF, was obviously said before 1998. And during that time it was common for Eritrean communities to organize LmAt Tigray fundraising events.

          The latter was said in June 1998 right after Ethiopia bombed Asmara and got all the diplomats (and the Eritreans with dual nationality) scurrying out of the country.

          Eyobai, this is not Ghedli history where somebody can make up stuff and tell u open willed and say ah. This is very recent history written in plain English.

          Saay

  • Kim Hanna

    Mr./Mrs Tooth Fairy and all other Tooth Fairies.
    SEBERE ZENA, SEBERE ZENA-Tongue in Cheek SEBERE ZENA, SEBERE ZENA!!
    Over 90 million Ethiopians, give or take a couple mill., have converted to Weyaneism. According to the East African Intelligence report, the baptism took place last night at midnight. From here on friends and or foes can call us collectively as Ethiopians, so said the master of the ceremony, again according….
    K.H

  • Amanuel

    Selam Mahmud
    Happy Independence week

    I can see that the conversation has moved, however I can’t help but share with you what I thought abou your comment above. To summarise i will frame my reply in to three

    1) The quote from Nitricc”Trust me, at the end of the day we all die and we all going to get old and useless but the life of Tegadaly and the purpose of his life is greater than any thing in life.” I wish i can agree with it, BTW it true, in my opinion, however quotes like this are not healthy. I think one of the reason our country is in this situation, is because of quotes like this. It gives Tegadelti specially, those on the leadership, a wrong sense of confidence and at the same time it descourages to those who want to ask questions and contribute their share to the nation building on an equal level.
    2) Comparing or levelling Nitiricc to those tegadelti ( Like Krbit, berbere, Fengi, barA). Please review it. Those Tegadelti were ready to die for what they believe in, however Nitricc is some one who is hidden behind computer, mostly writes rude comments, insult countries and not even ready to reveal his real name (uses pen name) for what he believes in. How can you write those tegadelti on the same line as him. You are trading their history cheaply.

    3) Why it took us 30 years. I agree with you the main reasons are those you have mentioned and I would like to add additional two factors which most of the time we try to avoid.
    a) Half of the 30 year struggle was spent on internal conflict. For example, between 1961 to 1976 not much has been achieved comparing to 1976 to 1978. I mean as far as against the Ethiopian army is concerned.
    b) Gadli Eritrea was very weak on diplomacy and didn’t try hard to build and master it. I realise that Ethiopians are/were very strong on diplomacy and they had time to build it, however Gedli Eritrea diplomacy was led by immature kids* who know no better than picking slogans like “down with imperialism and zionism” just simply it was fashionable then: or by others have no desire to go beyond the Arab world. I don’t know much about ELF but when it comes to EPLF diplomacy it was a joke. For example, in 1978 when the Soviet Union sided with Ethiopia, EPLF leadership was making excuses trying to justify Soviet actions (Soviet is our long term partner it is just its foreign policy is misguided) instead of calling a spade a spade and go west to look for supporters whom wanted to frustrate Soviet involvement in Ethiopia. It was a matter of survival. Compare it to the time after 1984 when EPLF did review its stand on Soviet, the support was pouring in the form of aid which enabled the front to buy arms, medicine and feed its army.

    Back to the independence celebration. I have a feeling that you live in London and if that is correct and you are willing I would love to celebrate Eritrea independence with you. May be we can grab coffee and chat by the south bank. Please let me know.

    All the best
    Amanuel

    PS* Immature kids: this was taken from IA interview with Harbena in 1990.

    • Mahmud Saleh

      Amanuel: Thank you very much. I brought nitricc not because I agree with every comment he makes but because of his sometimes hot temper; I know that comparison has not sit well with many members of the forum. But he assured me the last time he commented that he would check his “temperature” before he replies. And let’s give this person a credit, he gives the forum “energy.” He has to say “sorry” to everyone he has bruised; and I see him once a while apologizing; so, it was not his comments or who he is but the character was the one I was using as an introduction. I will accept your suggestion of not cherry picking quotes unless necessary. (That’s for #1&2) of your comment. I accept it.
      You are also correct on number 3, and thank you for giving additional variables that must be considered when talking about the length of the struggle. Especially, on the Soviet Union issue, it shows how dogmatic our leaders where (btsay Issayas). I remember, during the “strategic retreat” (mzlaqa) and early eighties there were long drawn seminars conducted almost every week about the role of the Soviet Union. EPLF official policy was that “since we and the Soviets adhere to the same ideology (Marxist-Leninist), Soviet’s support for the Dergue would only be temporary; once they clash with the real dergue ( fascist, our definition of dergue) they will come back to us. So our difference is not strategic.” There were heated debates and vocal criticisms in seminars (sorry, the ghedli defamers won’t believe this). There is a famous incident (probably you know it) in which a well known engineer got frustrated with this line of argument. So one day, he brings a barrel size part of exploded fighter jet rocket we used to call (fascist) for its enormous size and the damage it caused. He brought it straight to Tegadalay Issayas who was giving his ” Soviet are our strategic friends” lectures; The frustrated tegadalay demanded an explanation if friends pound you with that type of weapon!(dergue was getting it from the Soviets). To Issayas’ credit, though, in the 2nd congress of EPLF of 1987, he was one of the fierce critique of the Soviets, and lead a group that wanted the Soviets condemned its global role in Supporting regimes that suppressed the right of self-determination. The other group which included (sherifo) was stating that we had to condemn its intervention in our region (they were pursuing a more soft and diplomatic approach). Finally’ Issayas side won but it was too late.
      No, I don’t live in London, but we can be friends if you are on face book, you can search me using the same name.
      Thank you Amanuel.

      • Nitricc

        Mahmud how are you?
        Your time is better served talking to Ermias.
        Just you know Amanual is Tigraway. Just you know. They have the habit pretending as Eritrean. Just you know.
        The only brave Tigray is T Kifle. As deceptive as T Kifle is give him credit.
        On a personal note, I will address you personally about some thing I need to talk about.

        • Amanuel

          Hi Mahmud
          I rest my case. You see Nitricc is unreliable witness. He jump the gun and called me Tigraway. BTW I don’t see any problem with being Tigraway, It is just i am not. For got sake I am offering to meet you personally and he says I am pretending.

      • Amanuel

        Hi Mahmud
        You know you are of rare creature on this form. Very gracious and humble.

        • Mahmud Saleh

          Amanuel; Thanks.

  • AMEN

    When I do thorugh research about Eritrean history I find it that the problem is not with EPLF but some where else. I find out that EPLF is a genuine and cool organization which is often pushed to the limits of its patience by…..(will continue..)

  • saay7

    Tooth Fairy:

    My point is that the Isaiasists have no plan either: according to them, Eritrea’s return to normalcy is based on border demarcation; demarcation is is entirely dependent on what happens in Ethiopia, over which they have no control at all. And when their plan doesn’t work, they never assess (gemgam) and say: this plan ain’t working, let’s try something else. No, they just reset the clock: the Weyane era is over in 2005, no I mean in 2010, no I mean in 2015, no I mean in 2020…

    And you ridicule the oppo for having no plan? Funny.

    By the way, when you Isaiasists say Weyane is a “minority rule”, what is it that you mean? Are you saying that Tigrayans (the ethnic group) are a minority in Ethiopia and they shouldn’t govern.

    saay

    • Amanuel Hidrat

      Arkucha Saay,

      Doesn’t that remind you Semere Tesfay’s argument? In the mind of the Eritreans (the highlanders) their belief is precisely that. If you are in the minority social group you don’t have the right to govern. But how did you miss that buddy? My argument of “equitable power sharing” came to counter argue their political mindset the the majority decide everything.

      • saay7

        Hey Emma:

        One of the funniest* things the Isaiasists did here in the US was that while they were lobbying Jendayi Frazer and Johnnie Carson, both of whom were high ranking officials in the State Department (and both happen to be African-Americans), they kept complaining that the TPLF was a “minority regime.” I am sure Frazer and Carson were thinking “racist alert! racist alert!”

        saay

        * By funny I mean ጕዋሂ ልቢ

        • SM

          Come on Saay…it.is the same obsolete propaganda.FYI….The Weyane will show stronger than ever with Dr Deret sion or Dr Adhana as the Prime Minister.
          The Minority of only 7 million have controlled ever key asset.The Weyanes will rule at least until 2020..
          I mean if you more than 10 billion USD….besides controlling every major key areas and if every member of the 7 million minorities are security agents as ONE person…real Hade Libi…Hade hizbi…it will work

          The only new concern is that the selective “genocide” style civil war tendency might be a serious issue to the Tigreyans.It is so easy to target them and their assets.That is the most dangerous red flag….and people are talking about this issue as a big THREAT to the Weynaes….God forbid and hope it stops here/there.

          • T. Kifle

            Dear SM,

            I suggest you talk about things you really have a grasp. you are repeating the sermon IA and his disciples have perfected.

          • Pappillon

            Dear T. Kifle,

            It is the Al-Mariam syndrome lurking all the way from Ethiopian-Review to Awate.com. The syndrome is a collection of symptoms manifested on people who haven’t been to Ethiopia for more than 30 years and they still think that it is the 1970s when the King was showing off his lions and puppies roaming around in his garden where the background was a facade that was about to collapse with a single episode of mass demonstration. I suggest you pass them in a complete silence for they are absolutely clueless.

            Haft’kha.

          • T. Kifle

            Dear Pappillon,

            I thank you for the advice. Actually I don’t respond to the Ns, the Amens, the Amans, the warsays,etc that show up on here and rant woyane this woyane that. But then sometimes I take them genuine probably they are saying what they are saying for lack of information. It seems it will take them ages to fathom that TPLF administers Tigray and is represented only by 38 Mps in the parliament and by two cabinet ministers. But then like the weyane, the ghost, is everywhere where Eritrea gone wrong, it must be the same in Ethiopia too: ruling Ethiopia in spirit. Many worth their salt at Awate.com ain’t better than the alias names mentioned above.

            regards

          • dine

            Dear pappillone
            when PMMZ die a lot of anti-Ethiopia expect worst to happen but it didn’t. and the election in 2015 will not be different from the previous election for simple reason, the people of ethiopia know there is no any other capable political party right now who can lead 90 million ethiopians except EPRDF so don’t worry. it is just wishful thinking as usual.

        • Amanuel Hidrat

          Dear Saay,

          Thank you for the info. That argument wasn’t and isn’t limited to our public consumption, it was also fodders for diplomatic consumption. Strange Eritrean politics and Indeed “ጕዋሂ ልቢ”. But let me reiterate to you and hope to count my words, that “the majority decide everything” will land in the Real estate called Eritrea. Mederekites and many others if not directly, indirectly will promote that kind of argument.Why? Because all the organizers of Medrek who were government officials during the war, had been echoing “the minority government” frequently.

          Hawka,
          Amanuel Hidrat

  • AMAN

    Dear T. Kifle
    “You asked if the current EPLF-TPLF conflict has its roots to Ghedli era………..”
    As to my understanding there is no any roots or fundumental difference to
    principle and Goal either. The problem all the time is baswless FEAR and INSECURITY
    of TPLF not to be swallowed or be under EPLF. So there is always a sense of being
    defensive by TPLF due to its political and organizational immaturity and and due to
    its late coming to existance in post 1974 Ethiopia vis a vis the EPLF which at that
    time was already controlling big towns and cities as a show of its force.
    Second reason is also there is always fear and insecurity by TPLF towards the
    educated,scholars and intellectualls of EPLF which some have well established
    outstanding records in the field of higher educational world universities and institutions
    unlike the TPLF which its followers and bases are from the peasant masses.
    Thus though it was for the same goal with the same principle there is a glaring difference
    on the conduct of the struggle both in its ideal and objective accomplishments.
    So it is often seen that copying and duplicating (in a much reduced form to suit it) by TPLF
    all the ideas AND materials of EPLF without any regard to the owner and trying to
    implement them deviantly for narrow self serving purposes.

  • haileTG

    Selamat saay

    I just finished listening to pilot Ande Hishel’s interview part 2 with Amanuel Eyasu. Well I found out two things (one inspiration and the other revelation). Here goes:

    – I was inspired how exactly it is that many PFDJ can be thought of innocent while the system is rotten to the core. This is because the PFDJ can do all kinds of violations, which they gladly oversee but if you ask them to intervene they would tell you ብጉዳይካ ኣፍልጦ የብልናን፡ ዋላ ክትዕቀብ ኢሎም ሒዞምኻ ይኾኑ! (courtesy of Ande’s narration of his ordeals)

    – That if the going gets really tough and wish to know who is the person who has ኣፍልጦ they will tell you to write him a letter addressed by his official name for such inquiries, ናብ ዝምልከቶ, his actual name is IA but most behind bars call him ኣቶ ናብ ዝምልከቶ 🙂

    The strange thing is however, those majority PFDJ who insist they have no knowledge but oversee the crime, do they have knowledge that the victim is Eritrean and they too are Eritreans and that would have amounted to some ኣፍልጦ?

    cheers

    • saay7

      Haile the gr8:

      Ande Hishel’s story is inspiring in many ways, not the least of which being that odds can be beaten.

      What I read from your post is: “yes, saay, you are right: the PFDJ are just as clueless and mystified as the ordinary Eritrean and the only ገባራይ ሓዳጋይ is Isaias.”:) Or is my comprehension failing me again.

      To paraphrase an NRA slogan: “PFDJ doesn’t kill people; Isaias does.” The point being whether a serial killer shoots you or stabs you or uses a chainsaw, it may be understandable if one develops a phobia of a gun, a knife or a chainsaw (as I did after watching the Texas Chainsaw Massacre), but it is still irrational fear. A clever campaign would focus on disarming Isaias (separating the man from his tools) and not demonizing the tools. No?

      saay

      • Solomon Seyum

        Hey Saay, Sorry for the blitzkrieg to you and HTG as interject here. It has something to do with a ship called May Flower. Having warp speed know acquired from the Vulcans I bound to be re-abducted. Before there was a 7.0 the 007 have utilized all the tools. Thanks. But speaking of “separating the man from his tools”‘
        This particular May Flower is of epic proportions ma man.
        When Ande Hishel says “Ane ab dege inkolokhy bzey kisi Hade Eritrawi zeiga ab beit maEserti alo tezbluni neirom bfiTsum aymeamenkun. neAy gn a nebTsey Tub iya ilatini.” You can hear Amanuel in the back ground saying “wala dHri werHi ayKebeTskan neirka?” I submit that Dejen AndeHishel even until now aykebTsen. It is difficult to reconcile the people of Eritrea and the EPLF with this monumental injustice that has befallen the young revolutionary. Even after listening to his sincere and innocent testimony.
        In quid pro quo he and Amanuel will undergo on his escape of the when where how who engineered it is where we shall begin to GET A GLIMPS OF THE INSDERS/OUTSIDERS/INSIDE OUT/OUT SIDE IN…
        Again tis the season therefore we shall see in part three what my true love has left for me under the tree! Happy festivities folks. (I had more but will do it in a longer format lest our own DUCE start tripping about the allocated quota of yada yada.. yeeah you S G)

        • Pappillon

          Solomon Seyum,

          Hope this will not come as a hyperbole or melodrama but what I have gathered from the interview is the fact that a tacit and subtle revolution or uprising is going on in Eritrea. Here is the deal: the true son of Eritrea (in every sense of the word) Dejen Hishel could not have made it out the country without an extended or a chain-of-command collaboration starting from the check-points on the outskirts of Asmara to the end. That is a clarion negation of the people to the iron clad rule of the tyrant.

          Awet n’Hafash

      • haileTG

        Hi saay,

        Would it surprise you if I tell you that in today’s Eritrea roughly over 90% of activities involve informal and dubious dealing? Perhaps not (and I wouldn’t dare to imagine that). Now, if you ask me why the 10% is spared, well it involves those things as diagnosing a patient and religious sermons. What this means is that the tools are also part of this extensive pool of underhanded dealings. If the people would revolt and a group of officers coordinate the take over, spearhead the law and order aspect and liaise with all Eritreans at home and abroad throughout their transitioning role for the country, then it makes for a clean break and easy to outlaw all infectious activities that are cultivated by the current regime. That is understandably challenging but if they give it their best and get us through then it would be a highly significant achievement in saving the nation and people in proportions equivalent to one of the great achievements perhaps in ghedli battle operations.

        unfortunately, if we trust the current group, even if they had no hand in the crimes of the regime, they still are helpless and badly compromised. Their networks of mischievous associations and doing dirty jobs here and there are still there. I am firmly tight lipped in this regard as it is all personal matters and involves real people who serve in fairly high positions but are compromised to make ends meet (2400ERN isn’t much fun to raise six kids with). Almost all of the diaspora is party to all this type of activities mostly through the money transfer side. Recently, I heard that some people are working at $3000 – $5000 USD a person to take out young people and students from the country (nothing concrete but repeated claims). The non-involved part of the tool-box has been living and breathing in a system thick with corruption, especially since 2001, that even disappearing people is a matter of business transaction.

        Again, these innocent party are also liable to be accused for not trying to be involved (in a positive way) had they been people of principle (not saying that they should be but they would be undermined in such retribution).

        Starting new, cutting losses, calling for people to urgently rise up and the armed forces shoulder their historic responsibility by standing along the side of the people (mostly your proposal except including the abolishing of PFDJ as an institution for national security considerations) would have given a clear message to the people on what is needed. The concept of legitimizing part of PFDJ not only leave in limbo those who have been brutalized by that institution and still fear reprisal but dampens the spirit and kills the hope and excitement often associated with apprehensions at times of change. The other unintended outcome of such division is that it is encouraging regime loyalists (who have cases to answer) to feel that the opposition is again cracking up by fomenting proposals that would divide its ranks and hence weakening it.

        Our road map is for sending hgdef packing 😉

        cheers

    • Pappillon

      Dear Haile TG,

      I listened to the interview and I can’t even imagine the psychological torture he had gone through. The torture started in day 1 where he was told that his case will be reviewed as early as the next day where his mind is suspended in a limbo as he put it, he would gather all his belongings ready believing that he would be released any time soon. Any time soon was stretched to 15 years and you can imagine the kind of mental anguish the systematic torture impacts on him. It was done by a design. More over, what strikes me is that, the excuse as you put it is, it is for his own good that they kept him in the cell for he is indispensable as other pilots died in a combat. I specifically remember a while back when Asmara-Rose was asked about the whereabouts and conditions of the G-15 and she said, it would be easy to bring them to justice or to a court of law but the government is doing otherwise for their own good simply because, if they are brought to justice the verdict could as well be a death sentence as such the government is protecting them from that kind of ultimate sentence. The parallel and similarity are striking and astounding!!!

      Haft’kha.

  • saay7

    Tooth Fairy:

    Weyanais flag is a yellow star, like a starfish, which can regenerate all it’s limbs. So “last legs” mean nothing. Besides haven’t the Isaiasists been predicting the Weyane doom clock is at 2 minutes to midnight since 2005? You guys keep resetting the clock: what is it now, the 2015 elections? But the Weyane has out-Isaiased Isaias: whereas he is content with one autocratic state, they have created numerous autocratic provinces (kilil), a federation of ethnic dictatorships. They will probably win with, um, 92.5% of the vote probably because they are bored with 95%. Then it will be fun watching EriTV shedding tears about the scope of Weyanais violation of Ethiopians civil liberties. If you guys worried half as much about Eritrean civil liberties as you do about Ethiopians’ it would be progress.

    And ION? Really, what’s next: Africa Intelligence?

    saay

    • Tooth Fairy

      saay,
      92.5% win? It’s possible. But I think it’s different this time. I really do. This is not 2005. A lot has changed since 2005. Look at all these riots that are taking place all over Ethiopia over Weyane’s minority rule. You can’t subjugate the people through heavy-handed methods forever. You can get away with it for a few years but eventually the people erupt. That is what we’re seeing in Ethiopia.

    • truth

      Salih,
      Can you please,change the topic of debate to its original topic-“-of the solution oriented debate” that you started—using the ICG and your own proposal rather than going back to obsolete nonsensical shenkolol?

  • AMEN

    EPLF are only those who joined before 1987/88
    before the second organizational congress.
    The problem that confused many people especially outside the country is :
    The wrong understanding of the difference between the true EPLF and those
    post EPLF organizations.
    Though there was a ripe condition for democratic chnage to take place in Eritrea
    after year 2000 it is lost because of the political immaturity and shallow understanding
    of the true EPLF aims and Goals by these post EPLF organizations.
    People wrongly think of them as EPLF and they also wrongly see and think of themselves
    as EPLF……………BUT THE TRUTH IS THEY WERE NOT AND ARE NOT.
    They were members of ( Nay 90, wogahta and some warsays ) all post EPLF groupings
    who do not know EPLF at all and do not have deeper knowledge of EPLF of the 70’s and 80’s.
    The EPLF considers all the post 1988 recruits as non EPLF BUT GAVE THEM CHANCE TO
    be for 2 or 3 years as reserves.
    So the reason why they were so connfused in post 2000 is that they were non EPLF but
    post Massawa 1990 and later recruits.
    That is also the reason why they were demobilized with some tip money after 1991 from
    the Military institution and many were angry that they were only recruits not EPLF.

  • Semere Andom

    In the Limits of Freedom of Speech, Awate Team considers to revoke The Great Tile from Haile: Sem Andom reporting

    The “Greate” tile was awarded to Haile last summer in recognition of two traits that AT covets the most: data/fact driven debate and slow, but deliberate evolution of thought after data/facts are presented. Sem Andom was shocked and wrongly predicted that the title will be revoked as Haile would soon be back nursing the soft spot he had for PFDJ. A year forward true to his nature Haile’s thought kept evolving to the point that you cannot tell whether a soft spot has ever existed and people close to him say that the data driven debates have blinded his detractors to assume a soft spot that never was.

    When I got the wind of this meeting, I flew to the headquarters of AT, but my press pass had fine print that identified me as “Ghedli Defamer” and I was not allowed to attend the sessions. I flattered and cajoled the AT, the answers I got was, nice try Sem, but these are closed sessions. I implored them in the name of public good and free speech after a few back and forth I was allowed to only attend the recess sessions where members were allowed to freely, but carefully discuss about the sessions and it was up to me to glean informations I needed.

    Sal’s office where the meeting was convened was spacious, but non-smoking and Saleh Johar, was chairing the meeting from another room via Skype. In the right Bob Dylan’s photo was flickering from a display and at the back ground, music that automatically alternated between the tunes of Alisha Keys, Bob Dylan, Shilan and Wedi Tukabo,was played. I was puzzled and asked Sal for clarification and his reply was that this set up induces Integrative thinking and decision making during heated debates such as this. The huge TV screen displayed several quotations, but the following stood out for me and was wasy to remember

    “In the beginning there was the word, the word was Ghedli and the word was with Ghedli and every by whom question was answered by Ghedli.”

    Disturbed by the latest few untenable comments Haile the Great made regarding Ghedli and Tegadalti, that AT held an emergency meeting to discuss if Haile is still worthy of this tile. To make his point one of AT member, who is in favor of immediate revocation put it this way: “From the comments it was hard to distinguish whether they were made by Haile or Serray, a Ghedli Defamer extraordinaire and since Ghedli Defamers are offshoot of the Neo- Andent, it is incumbent upon us to strip him of his title as the values of Awate, the man for his owner this website was named are at odds with the Neo-Andnet”

    The question was raised since Awate must award the title to someone, who was the next candidate? Although fact driven debate and evolution of thought are the qualities required a potential for these is also considered and at the recommendation of Tegadalai Mahmud saleh, Nitricc is the front runner if Haile ends up revoked

    Sem

    • Hayat Adem

      Very good. There are times I feel the same, too.

    • SM

      Aibelnando,aibelnan. ….I wonder why it took the AT MONTHS as to how to figure out as to who might be Haile.
      Mr Hope already gave you the red flags a while go about Haile. …
      Sem And is on a clise WATCH too.

    • saay7

      Hahaha Sem:

      You are getting really good at this satire business!

      A “the great” title is very much like an ambassadorship: once you have it, you own it forever. An ambassador is never an ex-ambassador but a minister is an ex-minister. And an awate “zgr8” is “zgr8” for life.

      By giving it to Nitricc, you know what you have done? You have to write his acceptance speech now:

      “This so-called award from the toothless opposition is so worthless that when I read the news I reacted the same I did when I heard the Cleveland Cavaliers won NBA’s 1st draft pick….”

      btw, the Awate Foundations meeting room, which is a beach front property in Santa Monica, CA (courtesy of CIA) is in an outdoor setting (veranda) to accommodate SGJ’s smoking and my pacing.

      saay

  • Saba

    Hi Awatistas,

    It is interesting that, after all the courage of ghedili, it is difficult to come up with a SOLUTION. I read mostly SLOGANs like “weed out”, “dismantle” PFDJ, etc but no proposals on HOW to weed out. Some say they will encourage the
    Eritrean people’s conscience and then somehow by magic they will change PFDJ. Others believe that 100% PFDJ bashing will change PFDJ. So far such miracle did not happen in this planet, there is always some final ACTION in order change to happen. So who will do that action? Probably the “cyber opposition” is waiting for people like wedi Ali 2.0 but is not that opportunistic? Why is that we can not develop a proactive opposition? I have read that , fore example Haile the
    Gr8, can not do anything from outside the country but there is something you can do: you can still go to Eritrea and
    demonstrate in godena harnet wearing T-shirts like “freedom now”(your avatar), “election now” etc while your peers film you live via skype, if anything happens to you the silent majority will rise up (remember the protests in PFDJ
    embassies?). But this one requires courage! Well the “cyber opposition” is so far toothless, can not do anything. Last
    time I have read in awate.com about the “autopsy” of the “cyber opposition” regarding its weakness but I am disappointed that it was not a full autopsy.
    All the talks can be summarized as SLOGANS. At least Ali-S and Saay are asking people to come up with a concrete plan.
    Saba

    • details

      Saba,
      You dance with the one that brung ya. See my response to SAAY.

    • haileTG

      hey Saba

      Do you know the Amharic saying “awqo yeteNa biteruT aysemam”? Have no worry about what haile can and can’t do, especially when you have little clue youself:-) the point is you are very much aware of what the score it and you wouldn’t get any foolish declaration from me here (again you know it well and playing deaf and blind is a favorite response by scared little kids). Haile might do some of the things you say, or may do none of the things you say, or do all of the things you say…live it to haile. What is Saba is gonna do when the you know what hit the fan…chill for now

      • Saba

        Hi Hailuwa,
        Sorry for singling you out but i still believe in your greatness(even though they stripped of you the title:)) and i thought your post was representative of other people here. I hope you are not saying “nenatna nighber”. What did i do personally? I am done a while ago with 100%PFDJ bashing with no plans because it is depressing. I am looking for crete plans. I believe we can be more effective collectively and i was hoping the cyber opposition to lead us. But in their later autopsy report they can not even convince their master TPLF, no matter how much they kneel down to them. So they are not talking to them directly. What a bad luck, neither PFDJ or the cyber opposition is worth talking to.

        • Hope

          But the PFDJ can still do or is doing something compared to the Cyber Oppositoo or the Pseudo-Opposition.

  • haileTG

    Hello haw Mahmud,

    I always see the distinction between tegadalay, PFDJ and “Regime”. The last two are crooks, where as ብዓይኒ ፍትሒ ምስ እትርእይ፡ ከም ተጋዳላይ ዝተበደለ ሰብ ኣሎ ኢልካ ክትሓስብ አጸጋሚ እዩ። The regime being the principal instigator of the crime against tegadelti, the PFDJ is a willful crime den that hosts the undisturbed execution of the regime’s misdeeds. All what you said above is true. However, ተጋደልትና ኣይነቕሑን። When the regime was implementing policies (for its shortsighted advantages) that pit them against the people, they should have known better to walkaway. ኣብ ሜዳ ዝነበሮም ተመክሮ፡ ድሩትን ናብ ኩናት ዘቕነዔን ክነሱ፡ ሃገር ዝኣክል ከመሓድርሉ ዝኽእሉ ብልሓት ከምዘጥረዩ ኣምሲሉ፡ ኣተዓሻሽዩ፡ ምስ ህዝቢ ኣብ ዘጓንጽ ጽፍሕታት ክዕድሎም እንከሎ፡ ብንቕሓት ክምክቱ ምተደልየ (ቀሊል እኳ ኣይምኾነን ከም ምዃን ግን)። They should have said “No thanks. We are a fighting force and have accomplished our historic role. Let the Eritrean people have a say on how to deal with the entire complexity of nation building. Let Eritreans in diaspora (over a million and a half) be notified about the situation and discuss with those at home to chart the way. We are not politicians nor administrators, we are simple freedom fighters that discharged a historic responsibility in defining the political existence of our nation according to the will of our people.” Instead our tegadelti fell for it and lent their trust to such a criminal entity. ብሓቂ ክንዛረብ፡ ተጋደልቲ ኣብ ዝተፈላለየ፡ ንግዳዊ፡ ሕርሻውን ካልእ ፍርያታዊ ጽጋታት ንኦኦምን፡ ንደቆምን ሰፋሕቲ ዕድላት ሂብካ ምጥያስ፡ ከምኡ እውን ኩነት እምሮኦምን ስሚዒቶምን ናብ ዝተመሓየሸ ዝድይበሉ ዝተፈላለዩ መደባት ኣብ ውሽጥን ወጻእን ኣዋዲድካ፡ ምስቲ ውዕሎኦም ዝዳረግን፡ ኸም ዓቢ ህያብ ናይ ዓስቦም ገይርካ ምጥያስን፡ ሓደ ካብ ድልየታትን መደባትን ክቡር ህዝቢ ኤርትራ እዩ የይሩ። But look what the system has got you into! In to a position where even the most sacred duty that you performed, accepting death for others, is being questioned. Whe I say that tegadelti were not nquhat, my main point was that they were made instrument of their individual leaders stupid opinion. እዚ ነገር ዝግ ኢልካ እንተሓሲብካዮ እኮ ካብ ሞራላውን ሕጋውን entitlement ዝኣክል እኮ እዩ እዚ ስርዓት ንዓኹምን ንደቅኹምን ኣሰናኺሉ ምስ ህዝቢ ኤርትራ ኣብ ዘይተደልየ ጎነጻዊን፡ ስምዒታውን ሓሳር የእቲኩም። When tegadelti were offered office jobs and other roles by firing civilians, when some of them were given government rental by literally pushing the civilians that were there into the street ኮነ ኢልካ ዝተገብረ እዩ ነይሩ። ክሳብ ሎሚ፡ ብመንገዲ ሰምበል ዘሎ ኣልፋ ሱፐር ማርኬት ንድሕሪት ዘሎ ሸጓሹግ እቶ እሞ፡ ልዕሊ ሚእቲ ዝኾኑ መጠለያ ዝመስል ዳስ ሰሪሖም ኣብ ድሕሪ ቪላታት ምስ ደቆም ዝናበሩ ተጋደልቲ ኣለዉ። The regime put tegadelti exactly where it wanted them to be, harmless ኢድካ መሊስካሎም ዘይናኸሱ and lives off by selling your old pictures and ዝና to the Eritrean people who have a soft heart for their tegadelti children to simply milk them. Tegadelti should have known the Eritrean people were above them in every respect, they should have engaged the people with at most respect and dignity, instead they were lost helpless to the regimes selfish machinations. Even now, when it try to associate them with its stupid PFDJ ኪድ ብኡ ኣቢልካ ጥፋእ፡ ከይለከምናካ ከሎና ክብልዎ ይግባእ። ተጋደልቲ ነቲ ጉሒላ መሪሕነቶም ተማእዚዞም ኣብ ከምዚ ዓይነት ውድቀት በጺሖም፡ ነቲ ናይ ብሓቂ መራሒኦም፡ ወላዲኦምን፡ ዓንጋሊኦምን ዝኾነ ህዝቢ ኤርትራ ተማእዚዞምን ኣኽቢሮምን ነይሮም እንተዝኾኑ ኣበይ ወይ ከመይ ዝበለ ድረጃ ምበጽሑ ነይሮም ሎሚ? ነብሶም ግደፍ ደቆም ደቂ ደቆም ኣብ ዝሕበንሉን ዝንየትሉን ሽሻይ፡ ክብርን፡ መጎስን ዘለዎ መዓርግ ምበጽሑ እብል ኣነ። ለካሚቱ ትምጻእ፡ ጃንዳ ህግደፍ፡ ለከመኩም እባ መሳኪን ደቅና 🙂

    • Mahmud Saleh

      Haile TG
      I agree.

  • details anyone?

    Dear Saay,
    I love how whenever you ask someone for details when they come up with their general pronouncements like “PFDJ needs to be uprooted” they clam up and their only answer is leave it to the people. Beyond slogans and platitudes, they really have no clue. Am I right Saay? I have yet to see anyone respond to you with a well-thought out, workable plan. They not only don’t have a detailed plan, they are not willing to sacrifice themselves either. Some kind of revolutionaries, huh? I think they are just addicted to talking crap about PFDJ.
    Honestly, I’d love to see a real plan that has a realistic chance of succeeding if anyone’s got one.

    • saay7

      Selamat details:

      It’s a lot like the Isaiasists plan on how to extricate Eritrea from its current mess. Thei whole plan is “resolutely rebuff” and “NeHna Nsu: Nsu NeHna.” Right?

      Actually since I am part of the opposition, the questions and the criticism is also self-directed. I am offering Gemgam proposal, in the great tradition of Harbenya Weyanai:)

      saay

      • Nitricc

        Not even close SAAY. PFDJ all has to do is let the prisoners’ free, set time for constitution and election. Map out national program and here you have it; Eritrea is back to it. If you are an opposition what can you do? How? It has been well over ten years the opposition predicting the fall of PIA; it has been decades since the opposition calling all kind of names to PIA. There are over twenty something wanna be Eritrean oppositions which they can not even share a meal let alone a national program. If you are in the opposition how would do it and how would make it work? YOU can not. So, let’s burry the idea of opposition and let’s work PFDJ to reform, to free the prisoners, to call an election and implement the constitution. The easiest and simplest way is for PFDJ to reform or to wait for its natural death.

        • Ermias

          Nitricc, you are wrong as ever. What indications do you have that PFDJ will reform itself, implement constitution, and hold elections? Didn’t mr nsu say that, “democracy my ass. You can go to moon to get democracy.”

          Natural death facilitated by strong opposition is your best bet.

        • Kokhob Selam

          Dear Nitricc,

          . . .ክ ብ ር ቲ ኣ ዴ ኻ . . . . .

          ክቡር ኢኻ ዓርኩ ውላድ ‘ ታ ክብርቲ :-
          ጓል ‘ቶም ኩቡራት ወርጃ ዕዝዝቲ ::

          ንሳ:-
          እታ ማማኻ ሕጋዊ ሓዳር ግይራ :-
          ሕጋውነት ብምልባስ ቃል ፈጣሪ ኣኽቢራ ::

          ብ ኡ ነት :-
          ንወላዳን ኣሕዋታን ክብረት እያ ኣልቢሳ :-
          ሓዲሽ ቤተሰብ ክትፈጥ ር ነጊሳ:-
          ንኽቡርነትካ ብስርዓት ጠ ኒሳ :-
          ግን ንዊሕ ተሳቕያ – መ ዓስ ተጣዒሳ ::

          ት ሻዓተ ኣዋርሕ ካብ ነብሰ ኣንበነት :-
          ክሳብ መ ስረሕ ትበጽሖ ድቅነት :-
          ኣቤት ዘሎ ሕማማት ልዕሊ 100 መ ዓልታት :-
          ግድል እዩ ምስ ኣጅናን ሽኩሽኳ ኣጋንንት:-

          እዚ ዘይበሃል ሓሳባዊ ሕልማዊ ተርእዮታት :-
          እዚ ዘይበሃል ተሃዋሲ ስምዒታት :-
          እየን ዘሕልፍ ክቡራት ኤዴታት :-
          ከቢድ ጉዕዞ እዩ ዘይእመን ኩነታት ::

          እስከ በል:-ዓርከይ ሓንቲ ኪሎ ተሸኪምካ :-
          ግደፎ ኣዋርሕ ሰዓታት ‘ኳ ኣይምኸኣልካ ::

          ሕማም ሕርሲ ይመጽእ ብቃላት ዘይግለጽ :-
          ……………ኣብ ኣጋ ዓወታ ኣዝያ ትቅረጽ :-

          እዛ ኣደ ቀዳማይ ወርሒ ክትውለደላ :-
          መዓስ ምጸለኣት ስቃይ ክጎድለላ :-
          ግን መስርሕ እዩ ዓርኩ – መስረሕ ምውላድ :-
          ትዕግስትን ሓቦን እዩ ዘብጽሓካ ገመድ :-
          ቀበጥበጥ ነይጠቅም ኣብ ሞንጎ ምሕንጋድ ::

          እዚ ሎሚ ንሪኦ ሕላዌኻ :-
          ኣይነበርካን ሓወይ ፈሪኻ :-
          ሰብ ክትከውን ነይራ ምእንታኻ :-
          ኣካላ ቆሪጻ ዝሃበት ኣዴኻ ::

          በዚ ‘ዶ ሓሊፉ ገና ኣሎ ምዕባይ ::
          ክሳብ ሰብ ትኸውን ምእላይካ ምንባይ ::

          ተጣዒሳ ድያ ዶንጊኻ ኢላ :-
          ብቀጻሊ ‘ ኳ እያ ዘድሊ ከፊላ :-
          . . . . . . . . . . . . .ኣደ ተባሂላ ::

          ኮኾብ ሰላም
          20/05/2014

      • details anyone?

        Dear Saay,

        You were doing so well until you mentioned Weyanai. Now my day is ruined! Thanks for nothing Saay!

        Hey, at least the “Issaiasist” as you put it have a plan. You’ve heard of the old Texas saying, “You dance with the one that brung ya.” It was the response of a University of Texas’s coach when asked who his starting quarterback was going to be in the championship game. It’s a sign of loyalty. You stick with the quarterback that won the playoff games for you and put you in the superbowl. Makes sense right! Well, supporters of the Government of Eritrea are going to stick with PIA cuz he brought them to the dance.

        Since you are in the opposition camp, SAAY, and you are always asking people what their plan is (to which you get very muted or not well thought out gibberish of gobbledygook) what is your plan sir? If you haven’t got one that is okay. You can say I don’t got none.

        • saay7

          Details:

          “I hold here in my hands….” a detailed plan for overthrowing Isaiasism and for Eritreas transition period. I will share it in an article format unless I get distracted. We in the oppo are easily distracted.

          Can’t dance with the one who brung me: she insists on wearing boots and steps all over my blue suede shoes. And anytime we are dancing, she goes for military formation choreographed square dances. Old habits die hard.

          Gemgam just means assessment. Don’t let your feelings towards Harbenya Weyanai ruin a perfectly valid management tool. It’s the Isaiasists lack of assessment tool that keeps them making the same mistakes over and over again.

          By the way, what’s your plan for getting Eritrea from its mess? All that I have heard in the last 10 years is “Weyane, get out of our land!” has changed to “Weyane, get the hell out of our land!” Isaiasist rely on Isaias who relies on his crystal ball which has been predicting the fall of Weyane (any minute now!) since the 2005 elections.

          Saay

          • Tooth Fairy

            saay,

            1. Weyane is pretty much on its last leg. Read last ION article.

            2. Regarding your plan, we will believe it when we see it.

            3. My day is ruined too. A sure way to ruin a perfectly good day for an Eritrean is to mention Weyane. Congrats saay! If we were all sitting together, I would have gotten up and left the room as soon as you brought Weyane into a conversation that has to do with Eritrea.

          • Jo

            Selamat Saleh,

            can we please go back to the solution oriented discussion we had before the graffitis and the YGiests showed up?…

            Those who want to dismantle the PFDJ, some of them at least, admitted that it is the system they are against but not the people in the PFDJ. Then, they also admitted that most of the people who are carriers of that system/idea/concept are good people. How you can become good and hold a rotten idea is beyond me (wether the people within or the system itself is rotten is a discussion for another time), but for argument sake let us say they are. If there is any goodness in these people it means that these people are reasonable enough to reason with. If people could reason with each other, then, why do they choose the most unreasonable way to deal with one another: violence? Recurrent tit for tat attitude combined with our inability to persuade each other in a civilized manner, at least those who think are reasonable enough for failing to be magnanimous enough, is I think pushing people to dig in their heels albeit they are wrong.

            You were asking people to come up with five point plan solution, I believe, to narrow down the discussion. Some were very interesting, but I was a bit disappointed not to see one that wouldn’t mention eliminating someone or all. It may sound odd, but I still would like to believe that there is some reason and goodness left on us all to reason with our compatriots, whatever their views may be, without having to resort to finger wagging and we will teach you a lesson attitude: haven’t we suffered enough already? What if, we eliminated the notion that somebody has to be accountable and pay for it (a la reconciliation)? I believe that would be a trigger that pokes the goodness out of people. As we may not be able to change what ever happened, despite all the suffering, let us take it as a lesson learned, vow not to see it repeated and take action to prevent it from happening again; try to compensate (not suggesting any compensation will ever suffice or hill their pain, but as a recognition and taking responsibility, to their suffering, by the whole society) those who paid dearly. I see people trying to beg to our emotions citing tragedies, but remember implicitly or explicitly we all, as a society, are responsible, either by voice or silence.

            Back to your five point plan:

            Mine is a one point plan: let us be magnanimous enough willing to end a cycle of vengeance and counter vengeance. Because the other four are plans that everybody agrees upon despite their order.

            Luwam zelewo meAlti!!

      • details anyone?

        Dear Saay,

        But look how well it’s working for Weyanai. Those who live by the sword die by the sword! Those who maintain power through ethnic division and Bantustization and genocide will also fall from power from ethnic Bantustization. Bantustization comes back to bite you in the rear-end. That is what is happening to Weyane.

      • Hope

        Sal,
        Can you consider what some one mentioned about changing the topic to its original purpose?—“Back to the Solution Oriented Debate based on the ICG and SAAY’s perfect proposal”,please.The debate is becoming a childish one-,ina-kind of insane way–repeating over and over;again and again the same crap,which we are sick tired of…

  • Ermias

    Dear Mahmud,

    I noted that you aroused a lot of responses, mostly criticism, for your original post on this thread and I read the responses first. I just finished reading your initial comment about tegadelti. Quite frankly, I didn’t see much wrong with your statements there with respect to tera tegadelti’s every day life and why it took 30 years for independence. The cards were stacked almost entirely against the liberation fronts and this should be no mystery to anyone, let alone Hayat. I am not known for defending Ghedli at all but like you said, objectivity needs to be practiced at every opportunity. If you read a lot of my posts, you will hardly see blanket statements like “ghedli is nothing but bad.” I will qualify my statements and use may, might, perhaps, often, why didn’t, why did, probably…(I am saying this with Nitricc in mind because he thinks I flip flop while I only try to not declare complete allegiance to any school of thought).

    Anyway, from the individual tegadalay’s untold sacrifices point of view and how much was surmounted eventually, there surely is some greatness about the Eritrean revolution. The points of debate generally are as follows:

    1. cause of Ghedli (extensively being butchered by YG currently)
    2. the culture of Ghedli (unrealistic and extremely demanding expectations of mere human beings). Also on this one, YG is fiercely questioning whether there was widespread support for Ghedli or not. He cites giffa as his case in point. Very interesting read from him here. If I may digress, I used to go to my parents village in the mid to late eighties during the summer and I witnessed this myself too but I don’t know how widespread it was.
    3. mismanagement of high profile phenomena (like Simret and quinat hadhid)
    4. the legacy of Ghedli (are we now living in close semblance of Ghedli, why?) and IA.

    Whether we like 1,2, and 3 or not, we, the Eritrean people, own Ghedli and its good, bad, and ugly history. 1,2, and 3 are not the side effects of Ghedli. They were the price to pay and was that price excessive? Possibly but we have no mandate nor any right to go back decades now and prosecute the actors. The criminals during that time, the heroes who did miracles, the brilliant who wrote the strategies, etc. they are all us. Ghedli is Us (GIS) (analogous to Babies R Us). I really like to study and read about 1,2, and 3 a lot because of my insatiable appetite to try and relate to it and understand it. Books should be written extensively detailing out the everyday occurrences. Full books about individuals, battles, daily activities, you name it.

    What makes me lose sleep at night is number 4. Like my good friend SA said the other day, “to rebuild our country, we need to look at developed nations (starting from a similar situation as us) for inspiration and not Ghedli.” The nostalgia needs to end and it is totally unfair and inhuman to prescribe the same medicine to our people after independence. We should have left the experiences of Ghedli to historians. National service and arming even every human being in Eritrea will not do the job of protecting the country. What protects the country is strong diplomatic relationships and good image around the world.

    • Mahmud Saleh

      Ermias:
      Thank you for the reply, I don’t know if you read it or not I dedicated one comment sometime last week with respect to your clarity and your appetite to search for the truth; keep it up. Do the usual thing, gather information from different and even unlikely sources so that you will have different opinions and a fairly well distributed sampling. Most of the folks who tend to be fierce critiques of ghedli
      a/ do the gathering in away that confirms already held beliefs
      b/ for the sole purpose of justifying the notion that there were no reasons for the revolution, hence its existence or undertaking was purported and promoted by the usual culprit (Arabs); hence its sacrifices vs the unwarranted search for statehood and its deliverance were worthless.
      Why do you think YG gave it the title “Romanticizing ghedli?” That’s, I think, because he wanted to introduce and promote a thinking that ghedli was a culture that celebrates bloodletting and destruction; an unHabesha culture brought by foreigners to disturb the piece and tranquility that had existed in “Enat Ethiopia.” People who lived war usually are bad at talking about it let alone romanticizing it. What you see and hear is not romanticizing, but reflecting back to a unique way of life. What else do ghedli generation have to talk about? If you spent your prime time in Alaska with the Eskimo, you would be talking about it. What you might heard from tegadelti is all about reminiscing their youth years and remembering buddies they left there…..remember, tegadelti were young, and usually, the time of your youth never fades away, it is the golden time..and so, you may hear these people talk about their achievements, how they faced tough situation…it is away of relieving themselves from the traumas caused by years of untold ordeals. Of course, folks like YG take advantage of the situation and blame it on ghedli and tegadelti to promote their agenda which is undoing the statehood of our nation .Had he spent one night in ghedli, he would know it was not a Caribbean vacation; that it was not romantic at all. But that’s what tegadelti knew. You have a choice to talk about politics, football….go to social networks….tegadelti did not have that. So, why is it a big deal even to speak about it? And when they liberated the land, they did not get counseling on how to run civilian life and conduct government duties; they were left alone. One could say they messed it up or did their best, depending on your interpretation and experience. The culprit was the same close group that is ravaging the country and causing the mayhem we see today; I believe PFDJ itself has been hijacked and does not exist as per its founding document, but that’s a different story.
      The second point I want to make is the fact that as we exchange this thread there are people in the country who are compiling, archiving and documenting our history; I know the top personalities and I trust their intention is to preserve documented material for future generation. There is a lot of material already gathered and archived. The problem is the political wing of PFDJ is controlling everything, including publishing and distribution, so it’s bottle-necked, and fairly minded people like you and me can not get access to it. Thus we make our references coffee shop chit-chats and personal observations. You can not explain things like ghedli and Issayas UNLESS YOU HAVE A TOTAL ACCESS TO THE MINUTES OF CENTRAL COMMITTEE, POLIBURO; THE RADIO AND MAILED MESSAGES BETWEEN COMMANDERS, THE VOLUMINOUS MONTHLY REPORTS ….ETC. They are all classified, when do they get declassified? Only God knows. If we have rights enshrined in our constitution to force governments to disclose certain nonsensitive information, we would all benefit. You would get a huge material to work on; people like YG would be out of business. I hope to see that day soon.

  • T. Kifle

    Dear SAAY,

    What I have mentioned is the iota of your bravado of the time. please don’t ask me to repeat it here for I presume many of the participants might probably followed your articles at dehai save few like Ermias who probably were “kids” at the time. at any rate the question is not that Weyane might had misunderstood EPLF’s ideas but if EPLF had an idea at all.

    you also insinuated that YG take on ghedli stands to my delight. You are deadly wrong. I am very much disappointed that you didn’t understand my position regarding Eritrea and its quest for independence. The overlap with YG, if i have to mention it, is his understanding of Ghedli(the means) the way it was that many romantics have been blinded/refused to see it . I am not even worried about ghdeli as such but for the very reason that the far-reaching repercussions we have been witnessing on post-independence militant Eritrea have their roots in ghedli. So there is no way you can possibly correct them short of calling ghedli the name it rightly was.

    TK

    • Yodita

      Dear Mr. T.Kifle,

      May be I am wrong, but you seem inflexible in wanting to assess a 30 year old struggle making one aspect of it as the dominant and only factor that gives it its identity. Sir: you seem to be blind to all the turmoil: purges, liquidations, imprisonments that go on to this day with the added calamity of the youth haemorrhaging at the alarming way
      they do because the Eritrean people’s Ghedli and aspiration and what PFDJ has become are in irreconcilable conflict.

      You give the impression that Isaias (and his negative role and impact) is Ghedli and Eritrea put together- what he wants everyone to believe! A host of Eritreans do not believe so!! He is a historical incidence as happens (I am
      not going to list once more all the tyrants that stole the show by liquidating any divergent view and ruled with an iron grip for decades), since the existence of mankind. Isaias is not Ghedli. Isaias is not Eritrea. He is an aspect of both. Ghedli and Eritrea and the period in question are complex and intricate (paid with much blood and unflinching
      faith for a better tomorrow).

      You state: “ … the far-reaching repercussions we have been witnessing on post-independence militant Eritrea have their roots in ghedli.” This is tantamount to accusing the Eritrean people and their Ghedli, of all the ills that took place after independence. To mention but a few, the wedini type inappropriate trading transactions in Addis in mid-90s, the scuffle with all neighbouring countries, the border war with Ethiopia, the support to al shabaab and so on and so forth has its roots in Ghedli and the Eritrean people? Why is it so difficult for you to see that it
      emanates from a single man and and is obeyed by his yes men? I fail to understand why you do not make this
      distinction.

      I ask you: Are the people of Romania to be identified with Nicolae and Elena Ceausescu and what these two and their yes men did to the whole nation? Do we blame Ceausescu and his yes men or a people who conducted a glorious struggle to bring some equity and social justice and whose struggle was kidnapped?

      Concluding: Future historians will take neither your side nor mine but will thrash out and elaborate and record the period in question from all angles. Common sense tells me that they will not lump together and give the same essence and identity to Ghedli, EPLF and PFDJ as one and the same entity from inception up to 2014 as you seem to do.

      • Amanuel Hidrat

        Dear Yodita & T.Kifle,

        Can we avoid Eritrea Vs Ethiopia kind of argument. That kind of argument though important should be shelved temporarily until we resolve our internal problems. And going back to history doesn’t help to the current problem. New reality new problem. The new reality in our case is still evolving and yet unsettled in a deep unimaginable political crises. So Yodita let us leave aside history for historian to sorted out and focus on the political problem of our nation.

        AHT

        • Yodita

          Dear Amanuel Hidrat,

          I was burning to say a thing or two about T.Kifle’s reply but I understand and respect your call to stop this argument (1) because, as you rightly say, there is nothing to be gained as regards our present and urgent predicament, and (2) I am most doubtful that T. Kifle ‘consumes’ and ‘metabolises’ the Eritrean Ghedli the same way I do, understandably.

          My only worry is. if YG, Serray, T.kifle and now Hayat are left to ‘gallop’ around these lines, unopposed, they may pass as bearers of the only truth about Ghedli and that will have its consequences! Your sis

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Sis Yodita,

            I am absolutely confident, what ever diversionist arguments they could bring, they could not change the tangible history made by ghedli and that is “Eritrean independence.” That is reality that will never change as the Eritrean desire for independence will never fade away for generations to come. The only problem we are facing is how to govern the new reality. So please don’t worry about history, it will take its own course as we go forward. What makes me angry this time around, we gave to much time to respond ghedli bashers than to the actual problem of our time. We have to end somewhat debating on YG’s and his disciples unrealistic and untimely argument. “Siqta” in itself is politics and we don’t have to answer to any kind of claims.

            Hawki,

            Amanuel Hidrat

          • tes

            Dear Saba,

            Welcome back. I am still looking the part time job you propose to me.

            Warm greetings
            tes

          • Saba

            Dear Tes,

            Thank you. Sorry, I forgot what was the part time job i have proposed to you?
            Thank you again.
            Saba

          • tes

            Dear Saba habtey,

            Resiekiyo mesleni, beli dehan. Anes abta clinic tesrihini eyu mesiluni neru. Nibretey teranife tebegise nere. Welcome back again Sabina. Your input has a lot to us.

            Hawki
            tes

      • T. Kifle

        Dear Yodita,

        you said and I quote, “you seem to be blind to all the turmoil: purges, liquidations, imprisonments that go on to this day with the added calamity of the youth haemorrhaging at the alarming way
        they do because the Eritrean people’s Ghedli and aspiration and what PFDJ has become are in irreconcilable conflict.”

        Not really ma’am. I am not blinded to see any of you details. The thing is Ghedli had little to offer to the Eritrean people except “Independence” which it did. The hardships the Eritrean people are going through as we speak were not result of aberrations from an otherwise good intention of the ghedli leadership but they are part and parcel of the core beliefs, values and myths of ghedli leadership and its proponents. Please understand that I am not suggesting Eritreans shouldn’t have fought to begin with but they should have fought it employing appropriate methods and most importantly taking the welfare of the people at the top of their agenda. The people were means in ghedli as they are now. People were incarcerated, tortured, killed for their ideas then as they are now. What makes you assert the departure point is IA’s post-independence behaviour while the methods he has been applying were/are one and the same?

        Did you read the list of soldiers sentenced to death by none other than a battalion and company commanders published here on Awate.com at the pretext of “endangering national security”? where on earth do you find that someone would lose their lives in such inexplicable manner in the hands of authorities way below their mandate taking note of common practice of governments? But those who know ghedli wouldn’t be surprised if history repeats itself that the method is a rule not an exception. It was a practice rampant through out the ghedli era and continued to be so unabated to this date the nostalgics however would like paint it rosy.

        But my beef is the suffering that caused to my people and country. Ethiopia had to bear the brunt of this unbridled sense of entitlement of the Eritrean leadership which is for all we know meticulously designed through out the years including ghedli-time proper.

        Finally, the Ghedli/IA interchangeability is not mine. It would be an insult to my conscience to believe that one man drives a nation into extinction. Rather, the alternative explanation is that IA is IA because of ghedli. Its corollary is ghedli is ghedli not because of because IA but because of the Eitrean “myth”.

        regards

        • Nitricc

          T-kifle
          you said
          ” The people were means in ghedli as they are now. People were incarcerated, tortured, killed for their ideas then as they are now. What makes you assert the departure point is IA’s post-independence behaviour while the methods he has been applying were/are one and the same?”
          What i want to know is, so what is to you? you have your own country called Tigray, why worry so much about something nothing to you? I don’t mean any disrespect but i really would like to know.
          to add to your point PIA is PIA not becouse of Gedli but becouse of the refusal of the TIGRYANS to demarcate the border. why don’t you people honor what you sighn for?

    • saay7

      Selamat TK:

      What you said is that had the outcome of the Eritrea-Ethiopia war been different, YG and saay would not be writing what they are writing now. You said this with the certainty of a man who has a window to an alternate future. For you to make this assertion, you must have studied what I wrote prior to May 1998 for 4 years.

      This tendency to pontificate with absolute certainty about issues that you have no expertise in reminded me of the days that TPLF (which comes from a land that is 95% Tigrinya, 95% Orthodox Tewahdo used to lecture the ELF and EPLF how to manage diverse societies.

      All the best

      saay

      • T. Kifle

        Dear SAAY,

        I am here to air my view the way I see things and I don’t claim objectivity. Check yourself if you are one either. The metaphor that you usually throw(correctly in my opinion) at haile TG”don’t write when angry” could serve you as well(still an opinion)

        • saay7

          Selamat TK:

          Angry? me? I am a Vulcan: I am incapable of being angry. I just challenged your assertions: you can decide to counter or to pass.

          When I criticize you for not being objective, this is what I mean: within the opposition, even the most romantic Ghedli Romantic will concede that many terrible things happened in our Ghedli. But I have never heard you make a single concession about TPLF other than those that are in the “we were too trusting too accommodating vein.” That is: your criticism of TPLF is exactly the same as Dr Gidewons criticism of EPLF: we were too trusting and too accommodating.

          I also find it very disappointing that an intelligent Tigraway like you are misusing your talent. Instead of telling demoralized Eritreans, hey, we Tigrayans passed through 100 years of hardship, exile, being totally destitute and marginalized but we lifted ourselves up* and you can too, you focus on “We told you so” moments that do nothing but add to the humiliation.

          saay

          * that’s why “Harbenya Weyanai” is not a tease but genuine praise.

          • Solomon Seyum

            Come now wise Vulcan. Surely you have some emotions reserved towards the “we told you so”. Any who; LIVE LONG AND PROSPER!

          • saay7

            Hey TsaTse!

            Welcome to 7.0. Haven’t seen you since 4.0. And Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan to you too:)

            saay

    • Saba

      Dear T.Kifle
      I think you believe that the current PFDJ-TPLF conflict has its roots in the ghedili experience(please correct me if i am wrong) and in many of your posts you indicate that the main culprit is EPLF/PFDJ. Can you please share any wrongdoing of the TPLF toward EPLF/PFDJ/Eritreans? Thanks.
      Saba

      • T. Kifle

        Dear Saba,

        I tell you that TPLF did much more harm to Tigreans than to Eritreans. It started right in 1991 that tens of thousands of Ethiopians(mainly of Tigrean origin) deported after the immediate takeover of Asmara leaving their belongings behind. Nobody talked about their plights whatsoever. The 1998 deportation of Eritreans though not without merit had tested the government’s balance of judgements. Other than that I honestly don’t know issues TPLF could be wronged for. If I overlook things, I am all ears to hear from you.

        • abinet

          Ato kifle
          nobody talked about them because they are” children of the lesser god”. Thoy were all over addis in plastic shelters. It was a very sad situation where their own government ignore them while it was busy helping eritrea. And these are Ethiopians regardless of what language they speak.
          Melkam qen .

        • Hayat Adem

          And on that deportation issue, what happened has happened. However bad decision they realize it was on the part of the Ethiopian government, they will not be able to undo it. What reasonable people would expect is regret and apology, and a promise not to do it again. I heard more than twice top Ethiopian leaders stating that it was a mistake, apologizing for letting it happen and promising to redress whatever is possible. Then they put their money on where their mouth was and now they let deported Eritreans to return and claim their assets, they re hosting our fleeing youth, they provided access to their universities for thousands of our young on fully covered scholarship. PIA regime has been doing worse atrocities on Ethiopians not just in 1998 but earlier, on much much bigger number of Ethiopians, bombed an elementary school while housing kids, dragged Ethiopia to unnecessary war, and we are yet to hear a single word of regret to date from the great leader or anyone at any level. What would reasonable Ethiopians feel when Eritreans all the time ignoring what has happened to Ethiopians and only concerned and agitated about what happened to Eritreans, which was only one time and recognized and apologized for?
          A little commonsense, and minimum decency fellow brothers will do

          • Tooth Fairy

            Hayat,
            The only thing we want from you people is demarcation. Nothing more. Nothing less. After demarcation, we want nothing to do with you people. Even if demarcation doesn’t happen, we still want nothing to do with you. One of these days, you will get the message and it will sink in.

          • Hayat Adem

            Dear TF,
            I hear the beautiful voices of the two sisterly peoples loud and clear. And theirs is an uproar and about mending what is broken. Yours is a tiny old noise diminishing by the day.

          • Rahwa T

            Hayat (hiyaweiti), kemakHi zbela /zbelu kindey Eritrawian kon yihlwa yikHona? Haqi sleztezarbki TiraH’ye kemzi zgelxeki zelekH. Is there any thing they call a lady-Noh, as the one in the bible? As sometimes see as Noh- irrespective of the gender. I know you will be “stoned” with lots of derogatory names. But I guess at least you are free of disturbing feeling.
            Thank you sis,

          • Hayat Adem

            Thank you Rahwa. But I see everyone including Eritreans and not just Ethiopians will benefit from truth and fair-word. In the long run, lies and selectively miniaturized realities are hurting us all. They should not be part of our future. We can make ourselves better by speaking to empiric truth and not to a perceived one.

          • tafla

            Hayat,

            I’m shaking my head in disbelief. Were you personally deported in 1991?

          • Hayat Adem

            Tafla,
            Where did I fail you to make you shake your head? Please specify. I was not deported in 1991. But I learned about it lately. It was also done in 1998, this time both ways. Look, if I see any Ethiopian denying, or downplaying or lying to me about a wrong done by Ethiopians on Eritreans and I I know very well about it, obviously, I’ll be offended. I should expect Ethiopians to feel the same when I lie to them on atrocities they know very well were committed by the PIA regime. And my interest is not about evening out past wrongs. It is about building confidence and clearing suspicion. We can not bring the two peoples together without doing that.
            Hayat

          • Hope

            Tafla,
            She is officialy exposing herself as to who she is…I think Ermias the Psychic already diagnosed her and her intention/motivation–
            It is just amusing that people telling us our own stories in their own way–What a crap.She has failed many a time in udnerstanding that she is dealing with Eritreans.

        • Saba

          Dear T,Kifle,
          In 1991 the deported Ethiopians were mostly Amara than Tigrean origin and It was wrong.
          In 1998 the TPLF had declared a full scale war against Eritrea, do you think it was a correct decision?

          • Abinet

            Dear Saba
            Have you ever accused your government for inhumanly deporting those Ethiopians ? Or have you ever met an Eritrean except Hayat talk about it? Everybody talks about the Eritrean deportees as if the Ethiopians don’t count . Do you think Eritreans are ” first among equals?”

          • Saba

            Dear Abinet,
            All people are equal.
            In 1991 there was no government declaration. Let me give you an example that i saw at that time. There was an Ethiopian tor serawit(Amara) and his wife was eritrean (Tigrigna). He was treating bad his neighbors. When Derg was surrendered, he took his wife and flew to gonder. He has to flee for fear of revenge by the local people. After 2 years she came back because the women in gonder accused her, she belong to people responsible for the loss of their husbands. So it is complex who to blame here. It was chaos, i wish it was peaceful and people should not be forced to leave.

          • Abinet

            Dear Saba
            You said it is complex as to who to blame.but you did not tell me yet if you accuse your government or the army or the general public for their inhuman activities in deporting the defeated Ethiopians . You showed them what you are able to do when you get any chance. You have done it again when you bomb an elementary school by your top pilot. What a brave pilot!!! He will be in the history books of both nations. I do not want to say much since there is nothing you don’t know except you don’t want to blame any group.
            When those deportees come home our government didn’t acknowledge them,they did not get any help to resettle because it was busy helping Eritrea in every possible way.
            Peace

          • T. Kifle

            Dear Saba,

            “ብዘመን ውቤ ዝፀመመስ ብዝባን ውቤ እናበለ ይነብር” fits your rejoinder. I have no reason to discuss it again. It’s a moot point.

          • Saba

            Dear T. Kifle,
            Recently i renamed it as “Wube syndrome” and it can be applied also to your obsessive search in the wilderness of ghedli, which was more remote than the 1998 events. If you want to talk about the past then you will be asked also “mererti hitotat” such as this one. You could not even say yes or no. It is not as simple the “EPLF the devil and TPLF the saint” as you imagine. i know some people from the cyber opposition pray by saying “santa TPLF megbi iletna habna, kab kuri diaspora adhinina, siltan atHizina”. But if you want to focus in the future, then we have a lot in common, as such i invite you to listen this song(one of my favorite lately) if you understand “sTiHina, yeHimBaza” 🙂

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNkQYJOaGmI

          • T. Kifle

            Hi Sabi,

            Thank you for the invitation. I like it.

            you said, “Recently i renamed it as “Wube syndrome” and it can be applied also to your obsessive search in the wilderness of ghedli, which was more remote than the 1998 events.”

            My dear Saba(how many time should I tell you that I like this name), I am not into searching in the wilderness of ghedli. I believe I have enough information about it to make up my judgements on major issues that concern me. All I am saying is, in the best interest of normalizing the relations between the two countries, the Eritrean nationalists have to go through soul searching moments to swallow the fact that what is ailing Eritrea is the character in the attribute of the mainstream Eritrean state of mind which has been carried forward by ghedli and revealed in its ugly form in today’s PFDJ. Has ghedli had been a matter of the past, I have no reason pick up quarrels with friends like you.

          • truth

            Dear Weyanay T Kifle,
            Just be yourself man and leave us alone.Why worry about Eritrean business then.?
            One major problem we Eritreans cannot move forward is due to your interferance…..,whoch unfortunately cannot solve easily–eventhough we will at last.
            Welcome back Saba,
            Do you have a clinic treating Insanity?I have to make some referral to you urgently.

          • Truth

            Saba,
            I disagree.I think you are wrong.The deprted ones were Eseppa members and mercenary Tigreyans ,who were killing the Youth and other innocnet Eritreans and if we did not deport quitely, smoothly, and peacefully in the most human and respectful way through the help of the Red Cross for their best interest.

        • Fanti Ghana

          Hello Everyone,

          T. Kifle, Hayat, and Abinet:

          I won’t try to justify nor deny the plight of both deportees, but I want to remind you all about what lead to the “lukewarm” handling of the Ethiopian deportees in one hand and why many were shocked about the Eritrean deportees and what lead to that decision in the other. I keep reading bits and pieces about why Ethiopia deported Eritreans, and the conclusion reached is almost always wrong. Here is my take.

          Ethiopians were deported right after declaration of Eritrean victory, and to many of us it looked like part of the consolidation process of independence. On the surface, the rational used to farther justify that action and the barbarism that followed was “because they were supporters of the defeated Ethiopian government.” That may have been partially true since there were some DERG
          supporters, but the time honored hate mongering of EPLF leadership is however unmistakable.

          Eritreans were deported when both countries were enjoying a peaceful and cooperative existence, so, it was unexpected. What many of us did not know at the time about what lead to that unfortunate decision is however what Isaias had said during an interview with some British media shortly after independence. The interviewer, after pointing out the amazing friendship with Ethiopia, had asked IA whether there will ever be a war with Ethiopia.

          I don’t remember the exact words to quote him but I will paraphrase: I don’t think we will have any war with Ethiopia in the foreseeable future, but, if we must have one it is not going to be in Eritrea, ever. It is going to be in the middle of Addis Abeba! That statement was never forgotten by
          the Ethiopian government. That and how unprepared Ethiopia was to deal with possible chaos in Addis and the embarrassing number of troops Ethiopia had when Isaias invaded
          Badme was what lead to the hasty deportation. After carefully assessing that action EPRDF apologized, they didn’t quite say it but, in essence, for “barking on the wrong tree.”

          I have heard many, mostly those who blindly support the fascist IA, but also well-meaning awatistas, trying to convince each other that EPRDF deported Eritreans to please a few disgruntled Ethiopian hardliners. That is absolutely wrong.

          Sorry if I went off track here, but every time I hear about those deportations, it is as an after thought or as a side point. I really needed to express this here and now.

        • Truth

          Anta seb’ay you are dealing wirh Eritreans,not Ethiopians.
          We deported those criminal Eseppa members, mercenary tigreans who were killing innocent Eritreans,posoning our rivers,etc—in the best humane way in luxury Red Cross buses with three meals a day and clean water safely—so that they will not be targeted by the same victims of those criminal mercenaries…as your own PMMZ clealry and truthfully said it.
          swallow the bitter truth.
          Plus as some one told /reminded you before,the 5 yrs of Eritrean Econmic “dependence” for recovery until 1997 was worth of only a mini fraction of the billions of dollars dmages the successive Ethiopian incurred up on us Eritreans and Eritrea besides the 100s of thousands of Human Lossand more than1.5 million refugees all over the world,as your own PMMZ asserted truthfully.

  • Hayat Adem

    kibur Mahmud,
    I’m not necessarily opposed to your comment generally speaking but I want to frame the argument right. The initiative was from ghedli. Derg was countering the initiative. Meaning: ghedli wanted to win the struggle for independence with less sacrifice, shorter time, and maximum results. Derg’s aim was about undoing the initiative. Now, it should be that easy to see my point: the longer time and more sacrifice it asked, the initiative taker is losing and the counter-initiative force is winning. The side that is fighting to change the status quo is for a shorter time and less sacrifice. And if the intended change was found to be harder and the journey longer than initially planned, the supposedly great liberation leaders should have seen it. What makes them great otherwise? Great leaders are not typically identified from their survival reactions, they are known from their grand plans, and their leadership in implementing them with less. If TIA (later PIA) leadership didn’t produce enough friends and there were many supporting the otherside, that was purely lack of good leadership that could have helped shortened the time and reduced the sacrifice. Remember, greatness of leadership is not about having to confront and fight and defeat the strongest enemy. It is the reverse. If PIA had made Eritrea friendless in the entire neighborhood, and made fight each one of them, and push it towards severed relationship with the west. That is not wisdom of leadership. That is weakness of leadership at its best. So, we seem to have wrong counting of the scores.
    My relative visited Asmara in 2002 and returned to the west after a couple of months. We were all ears for any new news in our debriefing session with him. Being a supporter of the regime, he said: “ኣብ አስመራ ሰብ ኩሉ ዘዕልላ ዘረባ እንታይ ምዃና ክነግረኩም ትደልዩ? ‘ሃገር ከመይ ኢላ ድሒና’ እዩ ዝብል ዘሎ።” One person angrily responded back ‘ሃገር ከመይ ኢላ ድሒና ዝብልሲ፣ ብቐደሙ ናብዚ ሽግር ከመይ ኢላ ተሸሚማ ኢሉ ግዳ ዘየዕልል”. “ከመይ ኢሎም ኪኢሎሞ’ እዩ ዝበሃል” ዶ ኢልካና ሓው ማሕሙድ?

    • Mahmud Saleh

      Salam Hayat:
      a/ the argument works both ways, Mighty Ethiopia was brought to its knees, ask Erthiopian soldiers and their generals who were lucky to survive May 24, 1991(>120,000 strong, HULETAGNA ABYOTAWI SERAWIT TOTAL DEMISE)
      b/ I have not talked and I don’t talk about PIA, I am talking about ghedli; about the sacrifices ordinary tegadalay and the people of Eritrea paid.
      c/ national service kids who beat sucessive waves of Ethiopians will tell you how our nation was saved, dispite PIA disasterous role. Sorry to say it, but this is not YG101.

      • Hayat Adem

        You are known for your state of calm mind. I don’t want you to lose that however tough the debate it. Actually, the talk was about TIA/PIA’s greatness that stemmed out from Sal’s comment. If you don’t want to talk about him, then you had no reason to comment. And if you feel you had to spray your wealth of knowledge around everyone and about everything, you have no reason to get angry.
        What is the homework for me? The argument has never been whether EPLF won. But we have questions on how it won and at what price, and if it were won at a fair price. if you want to extend the story, you can also question if the victory and the total demise of the 120k Ethiopians has transitioned Eritrea to a better world.

        • Mahmud Saleh

          Dear Hayat Adem: Just take it easy; I guess, it is the independence mood and whatever visual flashbacks that come with it. I know I am losing it. Forgive me if I jumped midway. The homework is this Hayat: I can see you are way…way way..more educated compared to my chegar danga little brain. So, you can understand what I am trying to make.What I see in most debates about this ghedli ISSUE is that our muhurat forget that there were muhurat in meida, they forget that there were real people who were trying to exploit the best choice available, that’s if there were choices, that you guys forget that you are talking about human beings as intelligenmt as you are. They were faced with situation you can not comprehend fully unless you lived it. You may hear one persons version..may be different people… but unless you want to adjust your sampling and prepare yourself to hear from the “other” side, you won’t have a complete understanding of ghedli (ghedel yieto). So, my suggestion was just to see ghedli within its context and not judge it by today’s variables. If you ask me today certain questions, probably my answers may be different than those I would have answered during those years. I see areas we could have done better, one of it political preparation for statehood. What I don’t see fair is the blanket judgement that ghedli was this or that by people who never experienced it. With that I promise to keep my calmness.

    • Semere Tesfai

      Selam Hayat

      You said: “I want to frame the argument right. The initiative was from ghedli. Derg was countering the initiative. Meaning: ghedli wanted to win the struggle for independence with less sacrifice, shorter time, and maximum results.”

      – Less sacrifice – absolutely. Short time? No, that would be stupid. Our slogan was ‘ቃልስና ነዊሕ’ዩ፡ ዓወትና ግን ናይ ግድን እዩ’ Let me explain why.

      War is politics by other means. The strategy of winning a war is very simple. Winning a war is not determined by how many soldiers you kill. Winning a war is not determined by how many battles you win/lose. Winning a war is not determined by how much you push your enemy…… None of these are determining factors.

      At the end of the day, the war is going to be determined by economic hemorrhage. A country is as strong (militarily) as its economy. A country’s mood to fight is as strong as its economy. Therefore you could win a war only by bankrupting the government you’re fighting. And that is determined by many factors.

      If the government you’re fighting is the size of USA, your plan would be to bleed it for decades. That’s why, though effective tool, but takes such a long time to win a war of insurgency.

      • saay7

        Selamat Semere:

        I have a different take. The reason Eritrea’s armed struggle took 30 years had to do (mostly if not exclusively) with the fact that between 1961-1991 Ethiopia was governed by two people who only had one thing in common: an absolutely rigid/no compromise “ertra atsheTm atleweTm” attitude towards Eritrea.

        Whether their backs were against the wall, or whether they were marching forward, the Eritrean fronts had only one bottom line and it wasn’t independence. It was a demand that Eritreans be given a right to self-determination and that this be done in a referendum:

        * In 1980, the ELF and the EPLF issued a joint press release (in Rome) making exactly that demand: self-determination vote in a referendum. Ethiopia, which had regained most of the territories that the Eritreans had gained, felt it had the momentum and said absolutely no.

        In 1989, the EPLF sat down for talks with the Derg (facilitated by the Carter Center) and it made the same demand: that Eritreans be given the right to determine their fate in a referendum that would be overseen by the United Nations. Ethiopia, which by then had lost most of Western Eritrea and was on the verge of losing Massawa, said no.

        So this whole argument about why did the armed struggle take so long is like asking why is it taking so long for the skinny man to get out from under the gorilla. It is a question that should be rephrased and re-directed: why is the gorilla sitting on the skinny man?

        Your argument that winning is determined by economic hemorrhage is overstated (troop morale is just as important.) Nonetheless, I take your point. This is why the argument that the ELF and EPLF had mostly liberated Eritrea in 1978 and it is only their lack of unity that forestalled independence is untenable: the Derg had a sugar daddy (the Soviet Union) that was willing to give all the war toys the Derg wanted and the Derg’s obsession with Eritrea was shared by many (most?) Ethiopians.

        saay

  • Kokhob Selam
    • Kokhob Selam

      ……ምቀለሎም ምጽዳፍ……..

      ደራፊት እንተትፈልጥ ከምዘላ ደራፊት:-
      ……..ምቁር ድምጺ ቅርጺ – ኣዝያ ተሃሪፊት :-
      ………ኣይግዛእን ኢላ ክብራ ዝሓለወት:-
      ምሓፈረት ነይራ ነብሳ ምስቀተለት::

      ደራፊ ‘ውን ከምኡ እንዘስተብህል ነይሩ:
      ኦኦኦኦኦኦኦኦ– ኣይምበለን ርእሱ ኣንቃዕሪሩ:-
      ኣገልጋሊ ብምዃኑ ንሓቂ ቀቢሩ:-
      ብሕፈረት ምስሞተ ተሾቅሪሩ::

      ጋዜጠኛ እም ኸኣ እቲ ቲቭ ኤረ:-
      እሱራት ብጾቱ ፍጹም ዘይዘከረ:-
      ነውራም ብምዃኑ ፍጹም ዝሓሰረ:-
      ኣብ ገጹ ይንበብ ካብ ሞት ዝተፋሕረ::

      ገጣሚ ኸ በሉ ገጣሚ ሃውተታ:-
      ትግርኛ ዘጠውለገ – ካብ ቀንዲ ቀተልታ:-
      እንትዝፈልጥ ነይሩ ክእለት ዋናታታ:-
      መሕብኢ ኣይምረኸብን መቅብሪኡ ቦታ::

      እንተዝፈልጡ ነይሮም ደገፍቲ ህግደፍ:-
      …ንኽርኣዩ ክብሉ ዝበሉ ሃተፍተፍ:-
      …….ርኹሳት ለማኖ በላዕቲ ካብ ጎሓፍ:-
      ምቀለሎም ነይሩ ናብ’ቲ ገደል ምጽዳፍ::

  • tes

    Dear Mahmud,

    Your injection by the name of reconciliation needs though more time to scrutinize, your past reference is now very clear here. Your edge cutting loophole search is not free from the principle of DIVIDE AND RULE POLICY (The PFDJ policy). I am not fond of Reconciliation process, but I see your approach is far away from your frequently declare as Politically FREE oriented mind. The Ghedli era is deep inside you. I respect that, as it is. But, personally, I am putting you in the sweet lines of Yemane Gebreab’s approach in brainwashing the youths. I have been lectured for more than a week (In Nakfa cadre school by him and for 50 days in total by the leading PFDJ cadres, meaning, I know how they brainwash people) and I clearly read between delicious words you have in
    between your lines.

    Nitricc is brave and is true to his ignorance. But you…(pls say it yourself)

    Therefore, come openly and enlighten us. We need you to shape us not to deceive us.

    hawka

    tes

    • Mahmud Saleh

      tes:
      Don’t waste your time on putting me on categories/groups; remeber you are fighting for democracy…the right for self expression. Rght? And you put sawstika on the emblem that rallied thousands/ may be hundreds of thausands, in the name of the right for self expression. I communicated to you respectfully, without labeling you; you remember that. Now consider this: I am just explaining my views without defiling you or your views and yet:
      a/ you would not consider that I have as much rights to express my views
      b/ you failed to treat me the way I treated you yesterday when I asked you respectfull to take the swastika off the flag
      With respect to my stated principle of reconciliation, that’s my view, but we don’t have to fight on it, neither of us will be the final judge. Eritreans living in Eritrea will decide what course to pursue.

      • tes

        Dear Mahmud,

        Agreed and with due respect.

        Hawka
        tes

        • Mahmud Saleh

          tes
          Thank you. I will go out of my way just if I could give an advice. I see talents in the youth participating in this forum; I read your posts and article, you said you were a professor in some of your comments, use those skills to influence the young generation and to pull them away from the cynical attitude befalling them; part of it should be owning your history, criticizing it objectively; taking the good values and incorporating them with your vision of free Eritrea; you should not be carried away by PFDJ’s provocateurs. For instance, who is Sofia? Is enraging her more important to you than respecting a symbol that many of your folks (some could be close relatives) died under its influence/ideals? Of course you did the right thing and corrected it, I brought it to make a point. That’s by overreacting, you give PFDJ propagandists a free ride. It makes them appear guardians of our revolution and its legacy when they are tarnishing and mutilating our gains and sacrifices. As young people fighting for change, remember that the silent majority is watching both sides; stay being a fierce fighter; disclose PFDJ- and to punch you softly, with regard to your initial reply to me, I don;t know PFDJ and I have no thread that links me with it. You are the one who attended their cadre school, so you should be the one closer to Yemane, so, keep what you are doing in exposing it, but keep also being strong on issues that we all care about, things like our heritages and symbols, plus tolerating slight differences should be celebrated and promoted. Sorry, too long an answer, but I take it to my heart to give our youth the best I have from deep in my heart. Thank you.

          • tes

            Dear Mahmud,

            I don’t enough words to express my heartfelt thanks. Your maturity and deep analysis has a soul reaching lines. This advice has a lot of meaning to my walk. Thank you so much.

            I accepted the criticism in your previous post and here I got 100 folds rewarding wisdom. Saying this, I was not meant actually in my previous critic to categorize you but as you said here, I have close and life memories of their teaching methodologies and how they try to brainwash the youths by tracing back to the gedli history and making all possible excuses on current situations. At the same time, they push you by leveraging to their level of thinking in which you totally can be within their system. I have a critical thinking approach to PFDJ mindset and I may look too much reactive. Yes, in one hand, I am, but in the other hand, what I say is not to hurt my fellows. Just I read between the lines and I reach them. This kind of approach has many drawbacks and many advantages when I see unto myself.

            Therefore, dear Mahmud, I was not trying to attack you personally, just I was responding what is written here. I will try my best to take your wise advise and use them for building peace between my fellows and to avoid over reaction especially from the silent majority. I respect Eritrean history as it is and I respect those who contribute the history to happen. But, I reach history from today to shape my future. History for me is not a hostage but a stepping to future.

            Let’s tackle with what ever we are able to do to bring peace and prosperity.

            With all due respect
            Hawka
            tes

  • Pappillon

    Dear Mahmud Saleh,

    Aklilu Zere’ epic account about the rise of despotism contradicts your terse but otherwise “Utopian” narrative of the lives of Tegadeltis in Gedli.

    Haft’kha.

    • Mahmud Saleh

      Dear Haftey Pappi: Take it as another piece of information and you may want to put it away for now; then when you get another piece that collabotrates it, you may say “hmm..this is what aboy Mahmud was talking about.” I am just saying things as they made imprint in my memory; I am not in the business of indoctrinating, as tes tried to put it. There are many Aklilu Zere’s and they have stories to tell the way they saw it, made it,..felt it…. And be honest pappillon, where did I depict a “utopian” naration?

  • Semere Andom

    KuburTegadalai Mahmud:
    I am sure you you can guess that I take a couple of issues with this comment about Ghedli and Tegadalti, but for now my bigest one is giving Nitricc the “Greate” title and my reason is not because Nitricc does not deserve it, but Awate Forum “kab hade nlaEli “the Greate” ktsewur aykiElen eyu 😉

    • Mahmud Saleh

      salam Semere: I can only tell you I like your teqawmo. nay nitricc negher kHasbelu eye.

  • haileTG

    Dear Haw Mahmud,

    Your PTSD explanation ኣየጽገበንን፡ ሓቁ ድኣ፡ ሓቁ ተጋዳላይ ሓውና። You see let me be open with you as to what I wish to see: the tegadalays self aggrandizement toned down and dignity of the ordinary Eritrean people restored. Brother Mahmud, our youth love their nation but resent to the brim tegadelti’s (those serving the regime, EPLF and not the very old one’s) attitude and their bulldozing of our age old culture and tradition. ህዝቢ ኤርትራ ወሊድኩም እምበር ኣይወልድኩሞን። When I see how the Eritrean youth completely rejected the arrogant, abrasive and disrespectful nature of tegadelti, I wonder if tegadelti have inherent personality problems (and PTSD) might be one. Your mannerism is far from the standard tegadalay mannerism that ረጊሑ ረጋጊሑ መንእሰያትና ሃጽ ዘበለ። When I get close and analyse my one tegadalit sister, many of the problems can be explained by attendant limitations, but there is something disagreeable and ስጊንጥር about them. If you see how they talk to Eritreans in offices and other places, it is so trashy and disrespectful. Our youth are partly disturbed by this ኣነ ኣነ attitude of what they did, the tank they chased around a no man’s bush and what have you (OK exaggerated a little, they don’t actually say much about it. You’re the only soft spoken tegadalay whom likes to indulge ኣብ ውዕሎኹም). I don’t know why but the EPLF tegadelti have somewhat lost basic humanity and is common to witness it how they interact and are perceived by the youth. I know many really great tegadelti who work in different ministries and generally are approachable. But for many እዋይ እታ ነጻነት ኣረክብ ኣቢልኩምና ኣብ ሳልስትኹም ግልብጥ ኢልኩም ንሰሜናዊ ባሕሪ ከባቢ ከይድኩም ናይ በይንኹም ንእሽቶ ዓዲ እንተ ትድኩኑ፡ ማዕዶ ማዕዶ እናተራኣኣና ከመይ ምተፋቐርና፡ ማሕሙደይ። ወሰደ እንተበልናኩም’ሲ ትግርኛ ናይ ኣስመራ እዩ መስለኒ ጋጊኹሞ ውሰዶ ዝበልናኩም መሲልኩም፡ ዝገድፍኩምልና እኳ የለን። Remember my intention is to humble the naughty tegadalay and embolden the terrified people 🙂

    • Mahmud Saleh

      HaileTG (Tsere tegadalay),
      That’s funny Haylat; I enjoyed it. Just remember the mashing up of two completely different societies was not done cleverly; and hands off of this poor tegadalay haylat:-)
      Let me ask you, if you live in the states, or any where for that matter, how many stories of PTSD have you heard? For instance, American soldiers, after serving in Iraq/Afganstan came back with this epidemic (psychologists and psychiatrists business has been good); compare it with some one who has spent decades away from civilian life, constantly under war pressure; does not know if he/she is going to have the next meal; if he/she is going to see his/her best friend the day after….when a tegadalit mom leaves her infant to fight in the trench, when two siblings enter the same battle and fight unaware of each other’s status (some time the whole family); when burrying your best friend becomes a routine task (most tegadelty would stop counting the number of their best friend who had died)…when you spend years under the duress of war, people lose it. I believe the patriotism and culture of altruistic attitude help tegadalay cope with it; and coping mechanism is the first defense line in those psychological problems. You told me you have a tegadalit sister? Be nice to her when she shows moments of outbursts. It needs to be seen within that context. And you are complaining why they didn’t do this or that. You are lucky they did not go on a rampage, kick your asses-remeber when deqi Asmara were making fun of us? (just a joke). Ask warsay kids who confronted Ethiopians in the last round of war ( I hope it will be the last), now multiply it by average of 7.5 (average tegadalay stay in mieda (average of 15 years, it’s an arbitrary number just to give you a picture), it is too long Haile, too long to be away from your family, from civilian life. I would expect you to give this poor tegadalay respect brother hot-headed HaileTG); do not ever make nitricc lose it, OK. If I ask you, ” so, what did tegadalay get,” I am sure you have no answer; do not lump the whole group and put it in the previleged few PFDJ tseyeqti Gujle. For most tegadelty, if ghedli was hell, they have not found heaven in independent Eritrea. They are still struggling with minimum pay, if at all. The majority have nothing to do with the political realities in the country; they do not benefit from the system, but surely, they are in the files of PFDJ. You are extremely gifted, but you need to tone down your “anti-tegadalay” attitude too. (halangi sawra newiH eyu); you need to use ways and means that could help you communicating with this group, and with their extended families, a number that you need to win the fight. Hire Nitrric for that PR position.