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Seminar in Sweden: “Who Are Eritrean Jeberti?”

Sociopolitical, historical, deeply entrenched hegemonic ideologies are socially constructed situations; as such they require equally forceful counter narrative that emanates from a group that had been negatively impacted by such misconstrued reality. The beginning of the latter appeared to be afoot, to which I had the pleasure of being in the audience, virtually speaking, last weekend.

It was fascinating to observe the beginning of the evisceration of myths, the negative perceptions that were made to feel real for numerous reasons about certain groups of people. By necessity, myths about a people require, make that demand, that the effected people assert themselves to own their own history by retelling it. It would probably take more than just one strand of a narrative to get a grip of the complex way in which Jeberti Eritreans have been portrayed in the annals of history in the region, a region in which they have been part and parcel of sociopolitical and socioeconomic landscape since its origin and the inception of its geopolitics, as it were, in the conception of Eritrea as a nation-state.

Orally passed mythologies and legends abound in the realms of prophet proportions as aided and abetted by lack of rigorously researched material being availed up until the publication of “Menyom Eritrawyan Jebrti” earlier this year. Dr. Mustafa (2015) put the Eritrean Jebertis out of the myth into the realms of historical and cultural map, one that’s backed by over 150 scholarly references.

The power of myth is such that it can be used to perpetuate and politically exploit by those who wield sociopolitical power. However, “Menyom Ertrawayan Jeberti” one hopes will help its subjects to burst out of the parenthesis in which they have been circumscribed by the current regime in Eritrea that single handedly and decidedly determined the Jebertis only deserve to stay bracketed for identifications purposes. They cannot simply put Jeberti as their identity as the callous regime in Eritrea, with no rhyme or reason, unequivocally made it clear that Jebertis were no more than afterthought, an asterisk, dependent clause, if you will, the existence of which can only be made possible under the recently coined and minted Tigirnya Biher. In a word, Jebertis can only exist in the shadows of the Tigrinya population. Dr. Musapha’s book is here to help in the amelioration of that conundrum as he appears to want for the Jebertis to carefully tread as they break free from such an interpolation while at the same time they don’t go seeking for the exclamation point, rather settle in the middle ground, a period would have to suffice seems to be the overarching message, gathering from the Seminar entries.

At this point, a disclosure of sorts should be in order. This is not a book review. Rather, this is about a seminar I attended last weekend (4 October 2015) via Skype in which several individuals who read the book provided the audience their book reviews through the spoken word in Stockholm, Sweden. And, I am here to report about the whole entrancing experience, a nascent experience that was the first of its kind.

At long last, Eritrean Jeberti are emerging to tell their stories and put the record straight. Since this is about the written word, about history, most important of all, about identity, it only makes sense to delve into various methods as I try to capture my personal experience vis-à-vis the said seminar. The maxim that’s commonly known to those who are interested in the written word is that if one wants to be certain that something is meant symbolically, must therefore be mentioned thrice for it to be recognized as such. Well, this is not about symbolizing the Jebertsi; therefore, by the end of this piece you may feel “Jebertied” out, if you will, but that’s what it would have to take for this group to regain its rightful place in the Eritrean national scene. It must own the conversation. It must keep its history alive. It must use this important book to begin writing from eclectic viewpoints, that’s how one owns the conversation. Not in a manner that’s in your face, but using the art of dialogue, the art of writing, the art of telling a story, the art of using facts based on research, and the combinations of which will naturally allow the flourishing of literary narrative, which has been in short supply for many generations now. Borrowing ideas from the literary narrative, let’s then proceed.

In what’s now deemed as classic novel of gothic, “The Thirteenth Tale” which at once riveting to say the least, is being brought here for this reason: “Human lives are not pieces of string that can be separated out from a knot of others and laid out straight. Families are webs. Impossible to touch one part of it without seeing the rest vibrating. Impossible to understand one part without having the sense of the whole” (Setterfield, p. 59).

Speaking of vibrations and all, it is truism that spider’s web has crucial role in a spider’s life as it allows it to sense any vibration on its web for mating and other myriad purposes. Considering this delicate balancing act that a spider has to conduct for its survival affairs, issue of identity has been one such frustratingly delicate endeavor for Eritrean Jebertis. This web of identity demands dynamism from its vibrant community as it has been evolving over centuries past. It is in that evolutionary process, the fork on the road seems to be in the offing now. Where to from here appears to be the question that the Jeberti themselves would have to grapple with and decide which path to take.

Do the Eritrean Jebertis want to remain insulated and remain preoccupied in treating their identity as static and be adamantly protective of such an identity? Or do they accept the fact that identity is malleable, as such they treat it with due diligence in embracing such dynamism? For the longest there had been this notion that myriad groups of Jeberti persuasion would have a huge number in their midst as communities in diaspora, however, would wish to remain apolitical to a point of stipulating it in their by-laws handicapping themselves from achieving their stated goals: i.e., the assertion of their identity to be known as one of the assorted ethnic nationalities within Eritrean proper.

Ostensibly, the question of identity, in Eritrean context, is a question of social, political, and constitutional, thus, it goes without saying that it would require an act of political participation to make the necessary changes that will lead toward the ultimate goal.

Therefore, it should be obvious by now that Eritrean Jebertis from all walks of life be cognizant of this fact: Much as they want to collectively decide on their Jeberti identity and that they are asserting themselves to fight the good fight via the means of policy, polity, and constitution in deciding the how, the who and the what part of their identity, it stands to reason they give such deference to any Eritrean who identifies him/herself as Jeberti, because identity is what one considers him/herself to be, not necessarily by what others say who one is or by a means of fiat as the Eritrean regime has attempted to do to the Jeberti Eritreans. It is worth reiterating the earlier metaphor the spider feeling all of the vibrations on its web. Imagining an individual Eritrean in that vibrant community of the Jeberti web, touching one part of that human web, it sets off vibrations in all of the essences of that individual and vice versa.

As sheer coincidence would have it the seminar from last week in Sweden seems to have found a logical continuation of it in California in December of this year. There will be a conference that will speak not only to Jeberti Biher’s notion but to all Eritrean nationalities who sympathize with the eclectic Eritrean ethnic groups, specifically, those who have been marginalized by the mainstream Eritrean hegemonic power, to openly have a conversation, a dialogue, a discourse that will, with certitude, give them a chance to collectively chart a path of their respective future. Now, that’s what has been missing from the Eritrean political discourse. I am glad to see such movements are finally afoot.

About Beyan Negash

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  • belay

    Dear Awatians,
    The Geberties were and are very nice, very honest, very help full people I know of in my whole life.At least in Tigray any way.
    Their common name Jeberti , should be spelt Geberti, why ? The Geberti people love charity, let’s call it Geberti senai.
    I think they got their common name from their actions Geberti in short.

    What do think Mr Saleh ?

  • Rule of Law

    I second your opinion Michael.

  • Rule of Law

    Selam Rezene
    Sorry for not replying timely. I have no problem my friend, with the issue of ethnic diversity where all tribes receive equitable representation within the Eritrean socio economic political, constitutional demography for this ushers in molding the unity of fellow Eritreans and a safe transition towards democratic Eritrea in the near or distant future. My problem lies in the notion where certain segment of the Eritrean society can invoke despensional privilege in playing a prominent role behind the veil of mythical name all the while the guiding principle is Islam itself therefore, I care less whether or not the forefather of this faith so called ‘jeberti” comes from Egypt or Somalia but you have to understand that the issue of Jeberti has no correlation to ethnic identity as it unequivocally translates “a muslim Eritrean” if that’s the case then why is Beyan trying to invoke the precedence and recognition of the “jeberti” as he put it, within the socio-political and constitutional platforms. If Eritrea is to succeed in the democratization process faith based grassroots must be discouraged at all cost for the sake of the unity of Eritrea. Bear in mind, if you recognize Muslim Eritreans as a compensation for retrospectively being marginalized, you will not have the leverage to prevent them from progressing into faith based political organization similar to the “Muslim brotherhood” in the Sudan, Egypt, Tunisia and so on.

    • Rezene

      Selam
      Thank you for your response which is timely and courteous: an example of civilized discussion. However, still I need your help to address the questions I posed in my first message. A civil discussion around these questions will contribute toward clarifying the confusion around the nationality question in Eritrea. Having said this, however, I am of a position that having diverse and various nationality is a wealth which all of us should cherish. My friend, Eritrean unity and brotherhood is stronger than a steel, built on the sacrifices of our fallen heroes who were from all our peoples and nationalities. There is no one single nationality more Eritrean than the others. Regardless of their religion, race and language all are equally Eritreans. However, we need to be aware that there are still some among us who promote chauvinistic and others narrow nationalist thinking for their own hidden agenda . We need to be on our guard from these types of thinking and expose them whenever they raise their evil heads.. Once we have this clear in our mind, I am of the opinion that it is healthy to bring the nationality question to the fore and discuss it. It is with this in mind that I applaud Beyan’s and your postings. Thank you again.

  • sara

    Dear awtistas
    what are the posting guideline when many with different opinions use the same/similar nick or screen name?
    exp, sara ,sarah,Sara,sara.hagos,saraogba…etc
    I am afraid readers will get confused (which one of the many sara’s)or the moderator will not notice (while dozing) when there is offensive,defamatory comments..

    • Abi

      Hi sara
      There are too many saras. I am waiting for “Sara Nega” to show up . Now that is one haram name.

      • sara

        Dear Abi you said, ”Now that is one haram name”. are you sure ? then what are the halal name’s …..?for you.

        • Abi

          Hi sara
          I am sure ! If you meet a person by a name Sara Nega run away.
          There is no halal version for that combination of name.
          Sorry.
          Obviously , you missed the joke.

          • sara

            Dear abi,
            Is that so, well … never been dawn there to know you have such joke’s, interesting.

        • S.Tesfa

          Dear sara,

          Let me squeeze in myself here.

          There is a joke which somehow goes like this:

          There was a teacher who always arrive late to his class and the first name on the attendance shit of that class was Sara N…. !!!

          And, whenever he start calling students name to check their attendance, the pupil always burst into huge laughter. He used to get very confused why everybody laugh and he later realize that the joke was on him (b’cos he was always late to his class:)-

  • Yohannes

    Hi Beyan,

    I have just some naive questions :

    a. What does ‘recognizing the Jeberti’ mean? Suppose the government had put them in the school books as 1 of 10 Eritrean ethnic groups, would that have been all, then?

    b. As far as my knowledge goes except being symbolic ethnicity doesnt have any play in the current politics; so, if the Jebertis know themselves as jebertis and they dont have a religious or cultural issue that they are banned from practicing, what difference will there be on the ground concerning their livelyhood or culture?

    c. Why is this issue making a big noise among the Eritrean opposition groups….is there something difficult on this issue if it is as simple as the questions I posed above? should it be a big deal if it is a matter of recognition? I dont think so, but tell be why.

    d. I think this is a big issue and it has got all the attention that we see now only if there is something more to this. Is there?? If so plz tell us honestly.

    • Bayan Nagash

      Dear Yohannes,

      Fair questions and thoughtful points. The fear is in the minds of those who were used to bullying others in broad daylight to submission, which is long gone, at least in the diaspora – at the home front is different altogether for now. But, Ambassador Andebrhan said it in one of his gatherings in Germany, best: paraphrasing here, something to the effect: that politics is about winning; well, if that is so, thusly the one-upmanship can be devised through political calculus by any group and from any quarters so long it is done with Eritrea as a nation-state in mind.

      In an open system of governance alliances are forged to score political calculus, that ought to be a straightforward endeavor, there should be no need for others to get nervous; if some show some nervousness, however, it is because they want the politics of the old, where minority groups are ostracized, marginalized and are used as tokenism; of course, seeing other ethnic groups getting together should make them very nervous, especially if they are going to keep the republican like positions, positions that diminishes and belittles others on the ground of immigrant status, positions that tend to come across as anti women, essentially, leaving them into becoming political dinosaurs – not that there is anything wrong with that, they will just be left behind, politically speaking, and well on their way to extinction just the Dinos, again, this is from political standpoint.

      So, using one’s religious belief, one’s ethnic background to render them hostage to the majority will have no room in the future of Eritrea, if the Eritrea we all have in mind is one that’s going to aspire for democratic ideals, that is. A simple modicum, a gesture of respect to win these Tigrinya speaking Jebertis would’ve gone a long ways, but in the minds of those who are used to getting their ways through intimidation and the like, the hegemonic power that is now becoming a fantasy than reality, they will simply become irrelevant, assuming that they have political aspirations, that’s basically my read of the panting and gasping – the democratic air isn’t in short supply yet, we haven’t even had a chance to test it in Eritrea – There should be enough of that for all if we only let others freely assemble as they wish under any auspices, again, that auspices needs to be clearly spelled out – that it does not compromise the nation-state of Eritrea.

      Sorry for belated reply, Yohannes, but I am just trying to answer to as many questions as I can, time permitting, I will do just that.

  • Sara

    [From the moderator: begin your comments with Salutation]

    [I don’t understand that people would rather want to live in “blissful” ignorance than to know the fact and live with it comfortably. Knowledge is wisdom and power, people. Do remember that!

  • Asgedom

    Hello Ms. Sara,
    who are you to tell us tigreans where we come from?are you dna expert or what?.lool you might have problems conerning your identity but we don’t. our forefathers have a well documented account of who we are and were the boundary of the agazina have been and were we came originally. i invite you to come to axum museum and have a look at some of the ancient geeze books that talk about this issue in detail. so, it is better if you talk about your imaginary beja ancestor than talking about tigray. As much as we love agews as brothers, we tegaru agazians are not of agew ancestor neither are we beja, so you are safe. i know your main aim is to distance kebesa tigrina from tigray as much as possible…and i have no problem with you. cause i know your psyche very well. anyway, agew was one of the many ‘rival’ tribes during the the axum civilization fighting against agazian tegaru domination and played the vital role in destroying the kingdom and burning of the city of axum. They later took the kingship to their stronghold in lasta, where they built the eleven amazing rock hewn churches of lalibala and still the area is the main stonghold of the agews.

    • Sara

      Hello proud Tigray Asgedom,
      Agazians are tigre… actually the socalled “tigre” and the socalled “tigrigna” are one and the same… they both are tigre. Agazians comes from the word agazi which in tigre means mover… even in tigrigna itmeans the same. So these agazi people are a particular group, maybe a group of different clans or a clan for them selves that moved from other parts of Eritrea in Akkele Guzay, the heart of Geez language, way before Tigray dreamt of it.
      We all know Axum started in Eritrea, around Asmara area and Debarwa (again Asmara area) and Adulis. The socalled Axumite kingdom was an amalgamtion of markets coming from Seraye to debarya, from Akkele to debarwa and Asmara etc…. these people chose Axum for security reasons, since you can even see the red sea and Yemen from Axum.. so that’s the reason, you Asgedom. Accept it that som of you Axum, Adwa, Agame beings have beja like us, but expect it to be packed with agaw too…. already noted in your own tigrigna.

      That Tigray is the Agaw capital of this world, and a significant portion of amhara is not invention, it’s well known in the scientific world. Idiot, even the beja people who kept the te-bedawit language were orthodox. In fact, the agaw and beja rivary is part of the reason why there have always been war and distrust between us and you Tigrayans. I hope you get it!

      • Rahwa T

        Hi Sara,
        Interesting, and yet funny fiction. The ancient axumites in present Tigray must have looted your obelisks and erected them in Axum so that they would claim Axum was the center of Axumite civilization. I have read similar cooked stories on the “Nejashi” and the King at Dibaruwa.
        Keep it up.

        • Eyob Medhane

          Rahwa,

          Please stop..Don’t interrupt the “fun”… 🙂

          I am now in Axum trying to see Red Sea and Yemen.. As Sarah Palin would have said, “..I can see Yemen from Axum..”… 🙂

          Sara, (bless her heart) Seem to have quite an imagination that made “Tigray an Agaw capital of this world” (What ever that means)… 🙂 I want to hear more. Let us not interrupt her. Next thing you know, we might discover that MerhaBete could be “The Rashida capital of this world”…

          Go on, Sara, What else? Your “Knowledge” seems to be boundless… Please, share more… 🙂

          • Abi

            Hi Eyob the cave man
            Can you also see the Gonder Castle from Axum?
            I’m kind of disappointed by the show. I think Sem should postponed the creation of the new nation by about 3000 years. Wait! I mean by 5000 years. We are still at Axum Kingdom, right? Zagwe, lasta,yodit gudit, giragn Ahmed , wezeterfe, …..Yohaness, jeberti, derg,….Atse Isayas,….
            BesmeAb!
            Another 5000 years we will talk, democracy, human rights, electricity, dabo, …….
            The funniest thing is Ato Amanuel is discussing CUD while the audience is at Axum sirwe mengist, zaguwe dynasty, Agew, Beja….some are still in a cave…
            Who is in the wrong place?

          • Sara

            Eyob proud agame or enderta, you chose!

            Here is what Tigrai online wrote; http://www.tigraionline.com/articles/kemant-amharization.html, which is true if you’re honest to yourself!
            We have Bilen people in Eritrea that came from Lasta, they are proud Eritreans!

          • Rahwa T

            Dear Eyob,
            yes, you are right. I would better keep sllent to read more works of the EPLF’s 40 years research works. she would be grateful if you could find her words like Eritrea or Dibaruwa, on the walls of the fallen obelisks.
            enjoy your travel to the ancient kingdom.

  • Aklilu Hailu

    Hi Michael,
    I dont think its right to throw the hundreds of years of history, identities and cultures of a group of people under the rug.

  • Aklilu Hailu

    Ethnic federalism like Ethiopia may solve resentment issues like this in the next democratic Eritrea.

    • Sara

      [From the moderator: begin your comments with Salutation]

      As long as we don’t accept our ethnic diversity, we want get far. The jebertis just want to be known for their clan… which they already are in a sense,…. I don’t know what they are asking for, honestly. But, knowing who they are is also an important part of our nations history. Very important part!

    • tes

      Dear Aklilu Hailu,

      Is your reference the book of TPLF? Just ignore that?

      tes

      • Aklilu Hailu

        Lol tes. If it wasn’t for TPLF, shabiya and Eritreas struggle for independence would have been buried on the mountains of Nakfa. Let’s not forget that small note in history while we’re sipping from the haterade jug 🙂
        In any case, whether you hate them or not if there are some ideas they used that might work for Eritrea why not implement them. But then again, your’re the hopeless Ghedli glorification generation and your types don’t hold the future of Eritrea nor have a place in it when it comes out of its crisis. I suggest you read the latest article on awate from Amanuel Hidrat. It’s on the same topic.

        • tes

          Dear Aklilu Hailu,

          Haha, you will get crawy unto thyself. Get cool man.

          I don’t hate TPLF, I rather appreciate their achievements. What I am saying is the Ethnic federalism you are mentioning. I believe EPRDF did a wonderfull job by introducing a virtual ethnic federalism concept while it is meant Decentralization of Power.

          Decentralization of Power and Federation are different concept. Federation like that of Ethiopia is done when there are frictions between respective zones that even prefer to establish their own administration system. In Eritrea, we don’t have that problem. What we have is a totalitarian system that controls every power from the center. This is not good at all. Power need to be distributed, both vertically and horizontally. And each administration zone should be capable to run its internal affairs by acting as a government of its own.

          But ethnic federation will not work in Ethiopia let alone in Eritrea. I am quite sure Ethiopia will change the type of federation terminology and it will be called just states. And each state will compose of all types of ethnicity.

          The rest, man, cool down. If not, I know how to deal with you. I will give you lessons that you will never forget.

          tes

          • Aklilu Hailu

            Hahahaha…Your online threats are amusing tes. But you must be dreaming if you think you can solve your ethnic relations by simple decentralization without recognizing ethinic rights and identities. Yes, that includes the right to administer their own region down to secession if they want to. You see, one of the main issues that has plagued the history of Eritrea as well as Ethiopia is a dominant ethnic group ruling over other smaller ethnic groups. Lots of wars have happened because of this and if you can’t learn from the past then, well, you’re doomed to repeat it.

          • tes

            Dear Aklilu Hailu,

            I just reacted when you repeatedly said, “you are hopeless”. My reaction is to that. And what I will show you is I can do more to give unforgettable lessons.

            Back to business, to set a governance system, your social composition is very important. In Eritrea, except, 1, the rest have of mixed composition (social, economical, cultural, land properties, etc). Introducing ethnic based administration is not practical.

            EPRDF did that because not because of Ethiopian social composition but on the political composition of the ruling fronts. And now with fast growing economy of Ethiopia the ethnic based governance system will not work at. Ethiopia should re-visit its federal system and establish an economic federal system. If not, if not today, within 50 years, Ethiopia will disintegrate.

            tes

          • Aklilu Hailu

            tes, Actually revoking ethnic rights in the name of economic federal system is the perfect recipe for the breakup of our federation. For instance, if the official language of the Oromia region is changed to Amharic from Afaan Oromo then that is going to create resentment among our Oromo brothers. There is actually a better example that might hit home for you. If you look at the history of Eritrea for example, the first signs of resentment towards the Imperial government was when your own homegrown unionists replaced the official language of the federation from Tigrinya to Amharic among other actions. From this you should learn that ethnic federalism is the glue that holds together nation built from diverse ethnics.
            That’s why I say you’re hopeless because your history depot is a bit lacking. 🙂

          • tes

            Dear Aklilu Hailu,

            I do care less anyway on Ethiopian issue. But what ever you said about me, I won’t let be free to distort our history. Do you call it hopeless, call it.

            Haha Aklilu!

            tes

  • Kokhob Selam

    ክቡራት እንዳዓዋተ

    ኣሃ ! እምበኣር ኣብ ጉዳይ ብሄርነት ጀበርቲ ከምዚ ዝዓይነቱ ፍልልይ ናይ ኣረኣእያ ውን ጸኒሑ እዩ :: ወላ ኳ እዚ ብሄር ኣብ ሃገራዊ ቃልሲ እንከለና ጀሚሩ ጸረ ክብርታቱ ዝፍኖ ዝነበረ መጥቅዕትታ ይዕዘብ እንተነበርኩ – ብዙሕ ኣሰር ገዲፉ ከደናግር እዩ ኢለ ይግምት ኣይነበርኩን :: ሕራይ ኣብ ‘ ቲ ፈለማ ተሪሩ ንመሰል ርእሰ ውሳኔን ሃገራውነት ኤርትራ ምልዓሉ ምስ ኣንድነት ዝበሉ ኤርትራውያን ከቢድ ጎንጺ ክምዝጎኖፎ ይትንተን እዩ :: ኣንድነታውያን ኣብ ግዜ ሃገራዊ ቃልሲ ኣብ ኩለን ውድባት ያኢ ተሓለቅቲ ኮይኖም ኣብ ሞንጎ ህዝቢ ምስተሓወሱ ሕሉፍ ገበናቶም ንምሽፋን ንብሄረ ጀበርቲ ንምግላል ዝገበርዎ ናይ ምጥቃን :- ምንሻውን :- ሸም ምብራዝን ዘመተ ወላ ንሕና ኣብ ክሊ ዕድመይ ዝረኣናዮ ሓቂ እዩ : ግን እዋእ ክንድዚ ዝኣክል ምድንጋር ክፈጥር እዩ ዝብል እምንቶ ግን ኣይነበረንን :: ዝገደደ ምፍጣር ህግደፍ ግን ንበሄረ ጀበርቲ ዝተደራረብ ኣደራዕ እዩ ነይሩ : እዚ ለባምን ውርዙይን ህዝቢ ግን ልዕሊ ኩሉ ትዕግስቲ እዩ ተቀኒቱ : ካብ ስርዓተ -ባህሉ ነቅ ከይበለ እዩ ዘገም እናበለ ብዘይ ናዕብን ዕግርግርን ምስ ካለ ኦት ብሄራት ተሓቛቂፉ ክጎዓዝ ጸኒሑ::

    ሓደ ጽልዋን ሕማምን ዘይብሉ ተመራማሪ መጻሕፍቲ ኣንቢቡ ጥራይ ዘይኮነስ ንዝሓለፎ ተሞክሮ ‘ውን ኣስተንቲኑ ሓቂ ክረክብ ይኽእል እዩ :: እቲ ጽቡቅ ኣገባብ ምርምር ከ ኣ ሕቶታት ብዘይ ገደብ ሓቲትካ ምምላሶም እዩ :: ብጉዳይ ጀበርቲ ዝመጸ ብዙሕ ሕቶታት ንምርምር ክቀርቡ ይኽእሉ እዮም ::ንኣብነት ህልውና ብሄርነት :- ንምውላድ ሃገርነት ኤርትራ ዝነበሮ ግደ ንምርካብ እስከ ኣብ እንተ ዝተመርኮሰ ሕቶ ንሕተት ::

    ብሄረ ጀበርቲ ብፍጹም እንተዘይህልው ብላይ እኳ ካብ ቶም ጀበርቲ ‘ውን ንኹሎም ጀበርቲ ዘንቀሳቀሱ ካብ ጭካነ ንጉስ ኢትዮጵያ ዝሃደሙ እንተዘይነብሩ እቲ ሃገርነት ዝ ኣምን ሸነኽ ሓይሉ ክንደየናይ ምስ ደኸመ ? እዚ ኸ ሃገር ፍርቃ ናብ ኢትዮጵያ ፍርቃ ናብ ሱዳን ከም እትምቀል ዶ ኣይምገበረን ? ኢልካ ምህታትን ምምላስን ይከኣል እዩ ::

    ክቡራት እንዳ ዓወተ እቲ ኣብ ልዕሊ ጀበርቲ ብ ኣንድነታውያን ዝወረደ ፖሎቲካዊ መጥቃዕትን ካብ ገዛእ ሰውርኡ ንምግላል ዝተፈትነ ወረራታትን- ኣብ ልዕሊ ብዙሓት ዘሕደሮ ኣሉታዊ ጽልዋ ብስርዓት ህግደፍ እዩ ደሚቑ ቀጺሉ :: ስለ ‘ዚ ኢና ጉጉይ ተረድኦታት ብሄርነት ጀበርቲ ንዕዘብ ዘለና ኢለ ይኣምን ::

    • tes

      Dear Kokhob Selam,

      I don’t agree with your historical narrations? Like all Eritreans who were victimized by the brutal unionists, without discrimination, those who were thirsty to justice were hunted and killed.

      Your narration is becoming very selective and untrue to our historical discourses. But take note here, I am not saying they weren’t the target.

      tes

  • Rahel

    Hello

    What God forgot to give to this corner of the world is more
    brain muscles instead he gave more tribes with little brain muscles. If these
    tribes had stronger brain muscles, they would have spent their time inventing tools
    like the people who created this computer or all the wonderful human invention
    that we all enjoying it right now. May
    be through invention all these tribes would have been united. This corner of
    the world spends too much time wondering and getting lost here and there. Lord
    have mercy.

    Thank you

  • AMAN

    Dear Awates
    Interjecting into the historical exchange of points between some of your readers;
    Prior to the coming of European specifically Italian occupation of the Land and
    forming borders dividing peoples along river banks; the Lands now called Eritrea
    and Northern Ethiopia were more correctly represented by the history and culture
    of the western than the eastern half. Hence Eritrea was more correctly identified
    and represented by the people and land of the provinces of Seraye, Barka and
    Gash than their counterpart provinces of Semhar, AkeleGuzay and sahel areas.
    It is only with the nation building under colonialism of a separate Homeland of
    peoples called Eritrea that was also supposed to be historically and culturally
    different and separate from Abyssinia/Ethiopia to satisfy Italian colonial agenda
    that the original orientation of the history and culture of the land changed and
    re-configuered. This new colonial nation building was initiated by favoring those
    who show loyality to Italians and those who are willing to accept new cultural,legal
    and religious norms from the hands of the colonialist Italians by condemning their
    past culture and religion initiating a new LEFT against the RIGHT and republican
    culture that has been there as established one for centuries.
    That is why till this day Seraye and Adwa political culture represents the right and
    true repablican type of politics in contrast to the Leftist and communal type in the
    Akeleguazay and Agame areas.

  • Gual Beshir

    Hi sara,

    No, I have to read the book carefully. It doesn’t say the Beja came from Tigrai to Eritrea. No. It in fact says the Bejas extended beyond Eritrean borders to tigrai and even to the south east Ethiopia (around Harar). With regard to the population numbering goes, some of the quoted references mentioned I can remember right away: Alberto Polera and Jordan Gebremedhen; of course not limited to.

  • Abyssinia

    Ahlan,
    Well, it is pointless for me to post and comment because my posts have been deleted right after they have been submitted. I do not for sure know why, but my hunch tells me that the reason is because I have not shown obedience to the unwritten forum rules such as showing love to Arabic and hence my salutation line. I hope it softens the hearts of the moderators and let this post pass the always fair and kind judgment of the moderators.

    I have no doubt that the woes of Eritrea are yet to come, but that is not what I want to talk about here. What I want t is the following. Sometimes I can’t help but wish that some emperor(s) had homogenized the entire Horn African society. I do not care whether that meant Amharization, Tigreanization, Kunamization, Oromonization, Afarization, or Christinization. Don’t you think we would be living a much better life now? Diversity is no doubt a curse! Homogenous Horn Africa would enjoy bigger markets and all the energy that is being wasted in discussing issues such as Jeberti would be put to other useful and productive human endeavors. Seen from this light, I can’t help but appreciate the efforts of empires to homogenize society in language, religion and life styles. Homogeneous and large societies tend to be prosperous, stable and powerful; whereas diverse societies tend to be poor, unstable, and create more politicians than the lands can support.

    • Fnote Selam

      Abyssinia,

      Diversity indeed needs careful handling, but it is not like relatively homogeneous countries dont have problems (Somalia comes to mind…). BTW, what is homogeneous? At what level (ethnic, clan, woreda?)….

      FS.

      • Abyssinia

        Hi FS,

        Yes, it will not eliminate every problem, but it would drastically reduce them. Don’t you think? I think Somalia is an exception rather than the norm. Take a moment and think of the most prosperous countries. You will see that they tend to be more Homogeneous. The stronger factors whose Homogeneity would be useful are language and religion. However, the more homogenous in other areas (life style, way of life, shared history) too, the better.

        PS. Thank you admins for not deleting my post. It seems I have found the magic wand. More Ahlan! 🙂

        • Fnote Selam

          Hi Abyssinia,

          would you say Europe was homogeneous before WWI and WWII? They were all white, lot of similarity in language etc……Just trying to understand the level of ‘homogeneous’ you are imagining.

          FS.

        • Saleh Johar

          Abyssinia,
          I agree with you, generally homogeneous nations relatively better than diverse nations. But so do nations endowed with natural wealth. It would be ideal to have both natural wealth, weather, water resources and others, and a homogeneous.

          Several nations tried to solve their shortcomings. In pursuit of wealth, they invade other nations, and to have a homogeneous nations, you adopt a fascist policy. The Nazis tried it to the extent of preferring blue eyes and blond hair.

          Still, there are very successful diverse nations: Malaysia, Singapore, come to mind, and to a certain extent, India

          In our region, Haile Sellasie tried that by imposing Amharic on everyone and proclaiming Christianity a national religion. Just like emperors before him, his plans didn’t work.

          Do you really believe forced identity policies solve the problems of a diverse nation?

          I think your contribution will better serve the societies if you start from where we are and think in strategic terms on how a nation can be built in the future–many generations later as happened in Italy, for example. They had dozens of city states and Italy became one under Garibaldi.

          How long do you think it will take for Ethiopians, Eritreans and Sudanese, for example, to blur the ethnic divisions and be one nation? Looking at Somalia, one language, one religion, yet unstable, how practical do you think your view is?

    • Aklilu Hailu

      Hi Abyssinia,

      That is an interesting perspective. Diversity can be both productive and counter-productive. It all depends on how people handle it.

    • Dear Abyssinia,

      allow me to be the devil’s advocate. homogenization could have been the worst thing that could have happened to human beings. although slightly different, why do we dread human cloning? it is because it brings us nearer to homogenizatiion. imagine the same person, hundreds, thousands and even millions of times over inhabiting the same area, country, whatever. it is scary. in addition, any sort of – -zation, in any contest could have happened only through genocide, i think. God save us. you might have heard of the tower of babel. i do not believe in it, but i think that it has some meaning, some sort of message.

      therefore, human diversity is a blessing; only that human beings have made it a curse. on the other hand, homogeneity could have brought staganation and boredom in humans.

    • Music Novice

      Greetings Abyssinia,

      You forgot to include some in your list of ‘izations’ such as: Italization, Somalization, Arabization, Islamization etc. What do you say?

    • destaa

      Dear Abyssinia,
      I completely agree with your point. Diversity is a curse. Actually no curse to state formation than diversity. Horizon stating diversity is beautiful is meaningless for me. If we are speaking different language, how could I know the beauty haha… And if we are communicating with common language like English, then there is no diversity. Why you share a country with some one who follows a different religion and thus you can’t marry? (I know there are some who marry but that is not allowed if we are to be strict). And the main problem is not the diversity exists, but when it is significant, like half christian and half muslim, half some language and half another, different dominant ethnic groups, …etc. For me, for a state to be viable, at least more than 70% should speak one language, have similar religious background, and be from the same ethnic back ground. When those things get below 70%, that country is in danger.
      I will be happy to know a country with dominant religions, different dominant languages, different ethnic background but stable.
      And finally, as dear Salah stated it, since we are diverse already, we have no choice than creating mechanisms to enjoy life.

      • Amde

        Selam destaa and Abyssinia,

        How can diversity be a curse? Diversity is the very essence of nature, and is completely natural. Just as some physical traits are solutions to a particular natural problem, cultural diversity represent solutions to specific social problems. Saying it is a curse is like saying the day is a curse, or the night is a curse. Depending on whether or not you are a nocturnal hunter, the night could be a blessing.

        Since curses are human constructs, the curse is really our inability as humans to devise institutional and/or cultural mechanisms for not only accommodating diversity, but even go beyond that to benefit from it.

        Amde

        • Yoty Topy

          Hi Amde,
          That’s why I think that ‘twins’ are one of God’s less impressive ideas. He must have made them right before he went to sleep on Saturday night. He used too much material to make EVE and hence run out of inspiration. I used to marvel at the sight of twins during my formative years but since I have come to appreciate the importance of diversity as a condiment to the continuation of systems, I am no longer gaga with it. I think as you have rightly pointed out that , DEVERSITY and CHANGE are to bio-sociology as what e=mc2 is to Physics.

          • Amde

            Selam Yoty Topy,

            I had to laugh at your expression that twins are one of God’s less impressive ideas – that is funny indeed. But, I am sure you mean to say Identical twins. Fraternal twins are a marvel of efficiency AND diversity, wouldn’t you agree?

            Interesting thought though – when our dogs or cats had a litter of babies I never bothered to ask if they were fraternal or identical siblings. It looks like nature prefers fraternal twins, which is an ingenious mechanism for promoting diversity quite efficiently.

            Amde

          • Yoty Topy

            Hi Amde,
            First, let me profess that how much I am always taken by your dexterity on diverse issue and the precision with which you analyze them. I am always curios what kind of background and training prepares one for the kind of knowledge you posses.
            No, you are absolutely right that the fraternal twins combine both qualities i.e efficiency and diversity superbly. Although the identical process would receive high marks if it is judged on the grounds of efficiency since it is using less egg ( the scarcest cell) to deliver the same outcome as the fraternal. Could it be that nature way of cutting corners? by trying to cut cost it compromises on quality? fascinating.

        • destaa

          Selam Amde,
          Thank you for your comment. My point should be taken in the context of a given country. I have no problem with different countries having different language, religion or ethnicity. And with my limited knowledge, I tried to search a stable country with the points I mentioned. You know how even the developed Belgium ones struggled with out government(for a year?) but luckily they have strong institutions. I am referring to the real danger of trying to have diverse people in one country. I am not hating diversity itself but I do not share the idea that diversity is beauty for a given country. Why do we have even republic of ireland and northern Ireland? Religion?

          • Amde

            Selam destaa,

            I understand where you are coming from. Giving anthropomorphic attributes like beauty to social constructs does not make “logical” sense. But, let’s say you are a Hindu of the lower caste, where you are shunned by the powers that be because the dominant ideology says you are in your wretched state because of your karmic sins from previous lifetimes. You yourself don’t know what you did in what lifetime to warrant the terrible iniquities that you have to face in THIS lifetime. Being told that what makes you different, i.e. your diversity, is tagged with positive attributes such as “beautiful”, as opposed to negative attributes such as “cursed” makes a huge psychological difference to you, and it will have practical implications in the policies the authority in power devises for/about you. In one sense, saying “diversity is beauty” is meaningless, but in another sense and depending on the historical context, it can be quite a revolutionary statement.

            Still, I would agree that, for an artist, diversity is beauty, for a politician it is an opportunity , but for government bureaucracies who have to deliver the most social service with least social cost within limited budgets, it can be a headache. For governance, it is always a challenge.

            If you will allow me, I would define your statement about the minimum 70% homogeneity hypothesis as the “dominant culture hypothesis”. The thing is you may be quite right that most states in the world have this attribute. I don’t know if I am ready to say that it is proof that the most stable states are those that have a dominant culture. Definitely, pretty much all of Europe is like that. But things get a bit more interesting when you go to Asia, and Latin America (and obviously Africa) where dominant cultures are not necessarily evident. And conversely, look at much of the middle east and our neighbor Somalia, So I would say that your statement may fall into the “necessary but not sufficient” category.

            Amde
            P.S. To understand Northern Ireland, read the history of the Scots-Irish people. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Scots_people) Their story predates the United Kingdom, (which only came into being in 1707 – after our own Gragn history of the 1500s, the founding of Gonder in 1635, etc.. ). Those who “were settled” in the north were for the most part people that used to live on the England and Scotland border, famous for giving headaches to the kings of Scotland or England. When Protestant Scotland invaded Catholic Ireland, the Scottish King decided that he could solve the problem of the troublesome tribes on the English border, and the resistance of the Catholic Irish by settling the Scots into Ireland by promising them that they could take the land of the Irish and subjugate the people. So that is the historical root of the problem. Wikipedia actually refers to the Ulster Scots (Scots-Irish) as an “ethnic group”, which is in interesting as there are no currently fashionable ethnic markers (separate language etc..) that would get them designated as such.

  • Mahmud Saleh

    MarHab Ya adarob
    Thanks brother. Yes, rumor has it that Abu Salah was to get one when he was roaming around kaElay, but then he would not denounce his Kerenite origin…haha…
    Zula is actually way South for me, but let Abu Salah Almu’areK (awate historian at large) say something about Zula and Zulu.

  • AMEN

    Dear Awate forum
    I think what some of your disillusioned and disgruntled forumers had been throwing against me and my opinions is what is called a ” blessing in disguise ” for me when I see
    and analyse it now. It looks like so, so far, but just wait a little for full disclosure soon. Coming on.

    Yes we did !
    Yes we can !
    Awet N Hafash !

  • Saleh Johar

    Ahlan Aderob,
    Newcomers? What does it mean? How do you define new? That is the problem in the highland. If you assimilate with the majority you are original and the rest are newcomers, settlers, even if they were there for generations before you.

    I think what you should emphasize is the democratic nature of the Beni-Amer. it’s the confederation of Beni Amer tribes where anyone who joins that confederation, or seeks its protection puts the 111 scar and viola, he part of it. The same Is true with the tribes in Semhar, largely composed of tribes from Western Eritrea and the highlands but nobody tells them you are newcomers or settlers. Ask any Tsawra, degdege, meshaleet, many Saho speaking tribes, and from across the sea, as far as India, Persia, Kurdistan, turkey, Albania, Yemen and Egypt. No one bothers them. But for the Jebertis, whose land, properties and lives have been violated for centuries, anyone who just drops at the bus station in Edaga Hamus feels they have the right to harass the Jebertis. Believe me I never was interested in this issue as I am in the last few years. It’s just too much bigotry where anyone feels he is qualified to psycho-analyze the Jebertis. They think the Jebertis are a simple push away, someone derogatorily mentioned the Tekruris alongside the Jebertis. It is mindboggling.

    Stay well amidst this madness

  • Gual Beshir

    Hi all,

    As I read Beyan Negash’s article ’’Seminar in Sweden: Who are Eritrean Jeberti’’ I realized the aim was to discuss the book, not limited to it though as it touches the issue of ‘bracketing’ the Jeberti when it comes to the politic al imposition
    known as ‘biher’.

    I read the book ‘men eyom eritrawyan jeberti’. It time span that covers between the 7th to the early 20th century. Geographically, it covers from the Red Sea to the Somalia Zeila and from the Swakin through the Semhar to highlands of Eritrea into the northern Ethiopia all the way to south east Ethiopia.

    Chronologically, the books begins by debunking the traditional explanations that the Jeberti give in regards to their ancestral background; and strongly disagrees. That, the Jebert were not descendants of the companions of prophet Muhammed who migrated to the land of Abyssinia; neither are they Axumite Christians who accepted Islam. Rather they are Beja (Belew) elements who expanded to the Eritrean highland at the footstep of the Axumite decline in the 7th century that also happened at the same time with the coming of Islam. The Belew are portrayed as the major composition of the jeberti. Yet, the Belew elements joined by the Dobaa’s; then the ‘Abdella Sanaa’ elements; then Muslim clergy elements and some others finally to form the Jeberti social group as we know it now.

    The book discusses many explanations about the Jeberti by Jeberti and even by whoever wrote about Jeberti. Explanations, prejudices and all different approaches are analyzed and challenged.

    The book discusses adkeme-miligaa, families who fled their land Lasta and some from Agame and raided up to Eritrean highland during the 14 and 15 century. There in the Eritrean highland overwhelmed the Belew and emerged as dominant group. With that we see the disintegration of Belew existence in the highland. In a different twist, the book narrates of how many Belew families were made Christians through the Debri that were established by then.

    I can’t go through the book. But I can add one more thing I read in the book. The last chapter of the book presents population figures where it, for example, almost two-third of the Eritrean highland Christians migrated to Eritrea from Tigrai or so during the 1930s and 1940s. In this context, the book mentions the explanation which puts the Jeberti as Tigrai imigrants during the 1870s Yohannes onslaught and asks who should say imigrant to whom? The 1940s folks to the 1870s foks or vice-versa? And its conclusion in this regard is: ”what is all, but none-sense”.

    The book has many more interesting contents. I encourage all to read the book.

  • Saleh Johar

    Hi Sarah,
    You make it sound as if I alleged what you mentioned in you comment. Ask me about what I said or wrote, in context and I will reply. But you can ask those who told you so for clarification, not me.

    • Sarah Hagos

      Dear Saleh,

      well, you wrote this; “the Jeberti of Tigray and Eritrea went through long years of oppression–they were uprooted and forced to convert, until the death of Yohannes. hey were displaced all over and their properties confiscated” … This is highly confusing and alerting for a reader… What orthodox church forced a jeberti to convert in Eritrea?…. Do you not know that Eritreans themselves, christian or muslim, lowlander or highlander, kunama or affar were going through hell with king Yohannes?….
      In Eritrean history there is none, at least worth mentioning for religious persecution…. if that was the case, we would have been at each other’s throat by now.
      Second, only reason people think you guys are from Tigray is because many many Jebertis came with Alula during the period he had occupied Hamasien, and raided the rest…. That, we never liked. Did we have time to consider who was Eritrean and who was Tigrayan in the chaotic time…. more or less from then till now?….
      I know Eritrean jebertis who have many wonderful histories in the highlands where they came from.. how they would have an orthodox uncle, and how they would have a muslim aunt. They led a good life. But, if you are a ras alulan person who can’t return home, then that is different case… Reason being, you would be experiencing the people and the country culture through a foreigners eye in a rootless position. Maybe the Jebertis should be careful on not to mix those two people in…. did they have a horrible time in Tigray…. well that was Tigray. But, that story shouldn’t influence unfairly the Eritrean jeberti friend whom they end up marrying or just remains friends with. Years go, and generations come… and they end up with dirty mis.matich of info that doesn’t add up. Maybe the Jebertis should ask themselves some questions… Are we being fair about our judgement on Eritrean orthodoxy and Eritrean cultural psyche… and how was the psycological national enviroment when different things occured effecting the Jebertis in one way or another?
      You are aware that most “tigres” and “tigrignas” used to intermarry a lot, till the “tigres” converted?? Did the highlanders complain about the shift of their closest brothers change of faith? No, we still feel love and familiarity!
      Also, no highlander insisted on being called tigrigna…. higdef did. When did the highlanders ever have a chance with Isais? ISn’t the jails full of christians and highlanders??… I think our orthodoxity is the most tolerant and loving religion there is… they never preach negativity about muslims, but they grew up with them since time immomorial. There are heavy reasons why we are not habesha!

      • Saleh Johar

        Satrah Hagos,
        Be specific when you quote me.

        1. Never mentioned “Orthodox church” in my comments. That is your word and I cannot answer for what you said.
        2. I don’t think you know the history of the atrocities of Yohannes, there is no point in replying to you.

        Thanks

        • Aklilu Hailu

          Hello Mr Johar. I would like to read about the atrocities by Yohannes on Jebertis. Can you please point me to some resources that document this.

          Thanks and Regards,
          AH

        • Sarah Hagos

          I think they would be amazed why there are so many highlanders in the Beni-Amer group and the many socalled Tigre clans in Sahel with background from Hamasien, Akkelegazay… maybe Seraye…. that was because of Tigray agression with atse Alula intervention and BEFORE Alula Tigray intervention……. These guys are now muslims! Btw, there never was a difference between the socalled tigre or tigrigna… According my highland clan, my relatives are found in the high and lowland….having nothing to do with those who became beni-amer or whatever…..The jebertis need to look into themselves… and in fact they used to rule the highlands with the bejas…. till the arrival of the Turks!!!! Kiss my ass the Kebessa Christians repressed them!!! Are we not, kebessa ortohodox, which btw most tigre, beja and highlanders (indluding saho) were – not going to be given any space to be ourselves????….. Because if our muslims brothers are going to blame us for whatever Tigray had done in Tigray-land, and for the islam-christian dilibrate infiltration done with the Brits and those backing Ethiopia….now used by Tembien-Isais Afewerki, then what’s going to happend with us socalled kebessans??…. Are you aware you are giving Tigray the greatest give, and in fact calling us foreigners from the Agame-land…. yes, indeed the Kebessa orthodoxes that kept your previous religion and impart customs…isn’t that a self-denial? Isn’t this, pardon my words, norrow thinking the reason Isais infiltrated Jebha and killed it, now we are where we are? I think Awate needs to show it’s readers better ground stand on. Awate should have way better grounds when stating facts. And I do have respect for Awate. If the highlanders are not Tigray and don’t like Tigray, and are not muslims – then what are they? And what have they done, and how were they ruled???…. Impoartant questions, my friend. Otherwise, whomever greedy Tigray or Israel, would be using this stupidity as a leverage. SO SAD!!

  • Sarah Hagos

    Anwar, is it?
    Knowing what we are not is not an identity crises! You should look up the definition of that word, it will blow your mind!!..

  • Tsegereda Helekka

    Dear Rule of Law,
    Have we Eritreans become so fearful and cowardy on basically anything that has to do with our future post Isais?…. Remember this fear is the reason he basically have done what he could do in terms of evil. Only, think ayto ISais lacks is signed document that Eritrea belongs to Ethiopia…. But God have heart, he want´t allow that… because we wan´t let him.

    Q for you is did muslims EVER try to convert the highlanders?? Are you not aware we had peaceful co-existence after we changed religions??…. My grandmother from akkele guzay have a wiser who married a jeberti man from akkele guzay, her relatives from that part are now considered jeberti …. because thats their religion. My aunt is married to a jeberti, and I guess her children consider themselves as jeberti…. We are not a new nation, we have lived together under one umbrella… many many times and for thousands of years. Turky would bother us with religion from time to time, but it didn´t last long… by contrary they helped us fight Tigray raids, as Funj did and as Egypt did.. this was done through our lowland brothers. Imagine, most of you guys became muslims 150 years ago when you could have been so ever since 600 AD… that´s stubbornness and choice!! Very intelligent! I don´t fear my people at all! I TRUST IN MY PEOPLE.

    SECOND: DO YOU REALLY THINK ISAIS STOPPED JEBERTIS FROMR RECOGNITION FOR THEIS FEAR?? Lol, you don´t be naive. SECOND, IF YOU ALLOW PEOPLE TO BE AND GIVE THEM FREEDOM, THEY WANT HARM YOU. So why should´t jeberti be aloud to be called what they wait?… Allow them to be live in peace with their jeberti name, it´s their name! If christian or muslim terrorism happened, you deal with that through the police and security forces. Because bad forces might come,.. specially due to Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but didn´t the eradication of Jebha and THIS we are going through now TEACH us al lot a bout who we are? Let everyone do what they want, and let THE RULE OF LAW HANDLE THE BAD THAT MAY ARISE. WE HAVE LIVED IN PEACE WITH EACH OTHER FOR 1400 SINCE ISLAM, OTHERWISE WE HAVE BEEN A NATION SINCE 2000 BC UNDER PUNT, ONE NATION ALL OF US! We are not knew, stop acting like we are some amateurs!

    • Rule of Law

      Dear Tsegereda.
      I am not sure what you meant by the first paragraph. Are you saying Ethiopia runs Isayas’ affairs. How is that possible knowing that Isayas’ age old agenda and dream is to disintegrate Ethiopia. Don’t you see how many factions he is hosting for the purpose of fragmenting Ethiopia? When did I ever say there were no intermarriage and social integration between Muslims and Christians what I said was there’s no historical evidence that the term Jeberi is ethnic identity as the ethnocentric would have us believe. It’s not a question of recognizing them with a name of their choice my contention is when it comes to the point that a citizen is required to disclose his/her faith for social work purposes, it should be clearly marked the way it is instead of obscuring it with pseudonym which seems to me these folks are ashamed of being identified with Islam as their faith so much so that they are seeking to acquire official recognition under an alias . I am strictly trying to address your legitimate question in the context of social cohesion which in your case resulted in intermarriage between one of your relatives and a muslim person or vice versa. On the other hand, I am seeing warning signs of destructive agenda deep in the hearts and minds of these fanatical elements who claim to represent the cause of jeberti and by any stretch of imagination, it is no coincidence that they are holding annual successive meetings.

      • Tsegereda Helekka

        Dear Rule of Law,
        Seing our childeren in the sea, sinai wezete… abey emo kiwida negeroo, ziwedey. Anes ameslening ni ertra zibl izi sebay. yiqreta, engliz soobook ay sehefineye…

  • Saleh Johar

    tes,

    Be blessed my friend. Indeed, there are some Jebertis who annoy me. They think that Isaias and his band of brigands have the right to give and take an identity. Tome it is simple–you are who you are and you do not negotiate or request anyone to bless your name. You just stay who you are. No one should be classified based on what a few partisan cadres read in some cave.

  • Saleh Johar

    Rada,
    And why are you enraged? How did I “interfere in the issues of Tigray”? Yet, you are telling me some of the information I asked for, are you okay with me asking and knowing about Tigray? If you asked what a social group in India feels, would you be interfering in the affairs of India? What about studying slavery in the USA, will you be interfering in the affairs of the USA?

    • Rahwa T

      Dear Saleh,

      I want to help Reda as to why we believe that you would never ever stop interfering in our issues. We have over one century old lesson that many of our problems come one way or the other from the northern side our borders. Every conflict whether it is in eastern or western corner of our country traces back to our neighbor in the north. So your analogues of asking how a social group from Indian and slavery study in USA don’t fit here.

      • Saleh Johar

        Hi Rahwa,

        I know how you think all of your problems are austerity us. I acknowledge that. Now please acknowledge that all our problems come from the South. That will help me, you and Rada…and possibly others.

      • Shum

        Hello Rahwa,

        Every conflict? Hyperbole much? You’re scapegoating, but more than that, you’re missing the point. Saleh didn’t raise Tigray in this conversation. Read the conversation. He’s conversing with a Tigrayan Jeberti, Anwar, who raised the issues. Can you at least concede the conflict Anwar is mentioning is not one way or another from Eritrea? Or is he making it all up?

        But most importantly, none of us are states so we can’t interfere in your country’s issues. It’s a forum that deals with issues in Eritrea and the Horn at large. Why get touchy when your fellow countrymen raises an issue with his brethren in the north that seem to have similar issues. That’s what Saleh is trying to understand. Read the headline of this article if you don’t have time to read the article. You have to admit that it’s relevant. Perhaps I’m missing something here.

        • Rahwa T

          Dear Shum,

          I was referring to SG’s exchange with Reda. My concern is because I think religion is much dangerous any other sources of conflict. So I would prefer the Tigrian Muslim (I don’t we have Jeberti) look for a solution with his brother with in Tigray or the rest of Ethiopia than looking for help from foreigners.

          • Shum

            Hello Rahwa,

            I am also referring to SG’s exchange with Reda. My point is Reda’s response and hence yours are misguided. Anwar is not seeking a solution from us. He is sharing his perspective because he sees some similarities and he’s passionate about it. I can understand your sentiment to a certain extent regarding resolving things internally, especially sensitive topics. But neither Anwar nor Saleh have any expectation that they are seeking to take certain actions in your country. They’re sharing perspectives that came about because of the topic of the article.

            BTW, Anwar is your countryman and here on this forum that you visit. There is nothing and no one stopping you from engaging him with a “Tigrayan solution for Tigrayan problems” approach. He can find a solution with you, his Tigrayan sister, right here on Awate.com. I think we all need to be careful with our internal suspicions and mistrust towards each other. It gets the better of us.

          • Saleh Johar

            Dear Rahwa,
            Rest assured, the Eritreans are in position where they cannot help themselves let alone help people across the border. Then, rights are inseparable, be it religious or otherwise. You cannot claim rights are dangerous therefore push them under the rag. However, the Jeberti issue is an identity issue, not a religious one even if the Jeberti happen to be Muslims. Rahwa, I though the whole modern Ethiopian political philosophy is based on identity rights? Does it exclude certain segments? I don’t think so. Please, don’t be overly sensitive, such issues will not disappear simply because we wished them so.

  • L.T

    What is wrong with this I write,I write for your desired?forget that.

  • Amanuel Hidrat

    Ahlen Beyan,

    Good reading. I hope our rainbow will participate in the upcoming conference in California. An open dialogue and conversations of our social groups will be very helpful to understand each others’ grievances in order to chart out a meaningful political resolutions to the current impasse. Thank you for the feed back from the conference that was held in Sweden.

    regards,
    Amanuel Hidrat

  • Ali

    We will recognize Jeberti as a national identity after this terrorist regime disappears of this earth.

    Although, we (i’m Saho) may not be heard, let alone the rest due to portrayal of Eritrea being linked with Tigrinya because of their dominanation in the government (similiar to Ghaddafi’s dominated Qadhadhfah tribe, Alawites of Assad etc) but in the post Sha3bia Eritrea, we all plan to get involved in politics as a multi ethnic society – Sahos, Tigre, Bilenis, Afaris, Jebertis, Hedarebs etc since we haven’t for a very long time about when the multi ethnic led ELF was defeated by the rotten tribalistic group (Sh3bia and Woyane-TPLF) from Mekelle who sabotaged everything.

    Jeberties are also suffering in Tigray region till this day. We should support them all we can financially etc after this regime disappears as they are also part of Eritrea as well.

  • AOsman

    Dear Helen – NSU dea amelu iyu….bkhndey neger zeiQenE

  • dawit

    Selam Beyan Negash,

    I don’t think the seminar participants gathered to know “Who are Eritrean Jeberti?”. They all must have known who they were before they went to the Seminar. I am sure they all knew who they are and the answer is simple They are Jeberti from Eritrea and I only speculate they must have gathered for different agenda, which you may not be at liberty to discuss it.

    • Saleh Johar

      dawit,
      Anyone can gather without inviting suspicion, but these kind of people must have a hidden agenda, like discussing a recently published book. It is a gathering to educate the stone headed about Jeberti.

      But maybe you are right, they could have been plotting to establish a Muslim Caliphate in Eritrea. That, dawit, in case you are wondering, is the reason they insist on keeping their identity. Always questioned, always suspected. It is disgusting.

      • dawit

        Saleh,
        Stone head can not teach another stone head, they just grind each other. As to the plotting you guess is as good as mine. Muslim Caliphate? Huum? I don’t know.

      • Rule of Law

        Selam Saleh,
        Islam minus Jeberti equals ordinary Amdetsion or Naizgi right? Why are you contending that the Jeberti is a distinct ethnic identity? In what type of historical context are you going to base your cause in the court of law? What do you make of the fact that there are Muslims within the 9 ethnic communities that make up Eritrea therefore by seeking “jebrerti” to be recognized as an ethnic entity you are trying to dominate the socio-political affairs of the nation. I mean in the context democratic election, the majority rules isn’t that right? If “jeberti” is to be recognized as an ethnic identity then your fellow jeberti from up south are also going to flock back to the “promise land” Hypothetically what might you name the “jeberti” dominated land? Jebertia or Jebrertiland? There is something inherently deficient about certain (not all) muslims. I mean is this an agenda Eritreans should bother? You can hold these meetings as frequently as possible but apart from passing on old stories to each other, are you really serious that this is an agenda discussing worthwhile?

        • Saleh Johar

          Selam Rule of Law,

          I never contended Jeberti is an ethnic group, that is your pastime project, not mine. I just told you Jeberti know themselves as Jeberti and you know them as Jeberti, don’t you?

          You are worried about the court of law! I am not sure, but I know how to fight it in a court if someone told me my name is not Saleh but something else.

          My friend, you are holding “rule of law” by the ear lobe. No one is asking you to recognize the Jeberti, you have no power to recognize or deny others how they call themselves.

          I suggest you learn more about the Jeberti, and don’t you ever try to lecture me on Jebertiland mumbo-jumbo, that is a creation of your prejudiced mind. Then what, maybe you should create a Tigrinya-land and solve everything?

          You see, you don’t read what is written, you just invoke your prejudice. What agenda? What agenda are you talking about? Beyan wrote about and a book reading event? A simple book reading gathering makes you jump into all of that unless you had it in you and you were waiting for an opportunity. Read what is written and how far you have taken it. And you say “there is something inherently deficient about certain (not all) Muslims”. Really? Now, really? This is the classical naatas nHamata!
          ,

          • Rule of Law

            Selam Saleh Johar,
            I take it you are trying to tuck the truth beneath the facade “jeberti” and most definitely you are the one who is surface reader who failed to capture the contents of my writing thoroughly if you did, then there is my quote that I excerpted from Beyan’s article, which unless my english has betrayed me, it is put black and white in the sense that it is a coded message of division under the guise of recognition which also payed a great emphasis on the cause of Eritrean muslims on whose behalf he seems to play victim. I know I stepped on your toes a bit (sorry about that) but if you wanted to be recognized as a muslim Eritrean with the nickname Jeberti, you can set up a museum however, I urge you to reread what I quoted that I used as a persuasive proof that his singular intention is to bring about this Jehadi cause into the spotlight perhaps you overlooked intentionally. Question, what is Jeberti? Answer :a muslim so why seeking recognition and for what purpose? This writing is way more than a book signing ceremony and you and I know what it is judging from the extremist sentiment in which it is imbedded. I am here for a constructive dialogue but it is sad that see learned people bring up a dead topic. I am no body to recognise or otherwise the cause of Jebrerti you are right on that but mark my word that you are not going anywhere with this. You said emperor Yohannes coerced the jebertis into converting to Christendom big deal so now are you guys trying to reclaim those souls? It is pathetic that we even have to discuss about political islam while there are more pressing issues discussing worthwhile on the lost cause of the Eritrean unity.

          • tes

            Dear Rule of Law,

            Hoping that your name leads you, do you believe on people’s rights within the rule of the land? If your answer is YES, then respond my question, if not do not worry.

            You wrote, “it is put black and white in the sense that it is a coded message of division under the guise of recognition which also payed a great emphasis on the cause of Eritrean muslims on whose behalf he seems to plays victim.” It is too much and too much conspiracy (thanks to PFDJ)

            Let me stress on the recognition issue. Who is to recognize who? Aren’t Jeberti Eritreans? Why you are treating them as alien people?

            tes

          • Rule of Law

            Dear Tes
            I repeat I am no authority to recognize or not to… it is true that the Jeberti are indigenous to the land of habesha and everybody knows who they are. As you can see in the picture, they are conducting the get-together event for whatever purpose but do you think their meeting is going to be limited to revisiting their history or they are trying to reinvent themselves as to “Jebertizing” as all. I suppose the meetings are not going to be just ordinary coffee ceremonies and I am sure “faith” is going to be discussed as one of their agendas. I remember hearing the dictator in the early 90s ዓረብ ክዛረብ ስኽፍ አይብለንን’ዩ ምኽንያቱ ናይ አሕዋተይ ቋንቋ’ዩ….. ኮይኑ ግን ሃደሃደ ሰባት “ንሕናስ ንሕና አይኮናን ኢና ክብሉኻ ኾለው……..” now you can connect the dots.

          • tes

            Dear Rule of Law,

            Then your worry is, “what they are discussing in their meetings” right? Why don’t you attend their meetings and be free from hallucination? You could have saved yourself from conspiracy.

            Let me help you this: These people are just fighting for recognition as a separate ethnic group.

            My question to you was, “who is going to recognize who?”

            Again for discussion, in the universal declaration of human rights, each person has a right to be who is to be. If there are 1000 or 100 0000 or plus with similar choice, why then are just be respected for their rights?

            If the state is ruled based on ethnicity, that is different. For example in Ethiopia, where there is ethnic federalism system, if a new ethnic emerges, then the ethnic group will demand his own state. And there is no reserved state that will be given. Forget now this nonesense ethnic federalism concept. Just concentrate on people’s choice.

            Jeberti are working hard to preserve their identity. They wanted to write their history, they wanted to preserve their language, they want to preserve their way of living. Forget their demand (I don’t understand what they are demanding in fact and to whom).

            Just lets see it from this perspective. Don’t go into your own unfounded hallucination.

            Are you ok by the way from Islamophobia? I think that is your main problem. If you have please be free from the Jeberti, they are not for that.

            tes

          • Rule of Law

            Dear tes,The only common interest among the Jeberti is the Quoran a copy of which I keep in my shelf for educational purposes. What language are you referencing to that is spoken commonly by the Jeberti? Arabic? You are dead wrong. the Arabic language was not introduced in good faith. It was intended to serve as a catalyst towards PIA’s request for admission into the Arab league which was dead on arrival by which I mean the request was declined on the ground that Eritrea was not Arab enough. The plan to seek admission to the rabita al arabia was cooked by PIA purely for economic and some geopolitical advantages as PIA was planning on starting multiple war fronts with neighboring countries and that they thought the Arabs would come to their rescue out of the quagmire but as you may have seen this does not materialize. In the aftermath of the rejection I heard Isayas saying “we are closer to being Arabs than the Somalis who don’t even speak the language” My question for you is if you wish, do define the term “jeberti” in its historical and social anthropological context as it relates to the geographical location in which the Jeberti settle currently. Bu the way, I am not Islamophobic. I respect every religion that people hold as a sacred way of contact with the supernatural or paranormal world. You got me a bit confused though when you said ” These people are just fighting for recognition as a separate ethnic group. My question to you was, who is going to recognize who” I can’t make head and tail out of this. I mean this is a self conflicting statement that I can’t address. Some commentators claimed that this article was written merely on behalf of a book signing ceremony and has nothing to do with seeking recognition but what you are saying gives credence to my critique in which I branded the content in this article as “a recipe for disunity” Don’t forget to answer my question and please do some research first hand before addressing my query. Thank you.

          • Saleh Johar

            Dear rule of law,

            all underlined quotes are from your comment.

            “I know I stepped on your toes a bit”

            Don’t worry, people like you have been stepping on our ties for many, many years. We can stand some more harassment, very patient people.

            “if you wanted to be recognized as a muslim Eritrean with the nickname Jeberti, you can set up a museum but what I am reading is someone making an effort to initiate a brand new cause in to the Eritrean political, constitutional and social affairs.”

            That captures your view of Rule of Law. It’s draconian and has no semblance of rule of law. Back to the drawing board.

            “…his singular intention is to bring about this Jehadi cause into the spotlight..”
            When will you accept a meeting by Muslims as their right? And you are for Rule of Law?

            “This writing is way more than a book signing ceremony and you and I know what it is judging from the extremist sentiment in which it is imbedded.”

            So, your paranoia is then truth?

            “…it is sad to see learned people bring up a dead topic.”

            Dead topic? Since when is anthropology and history a dead topic? You seem to be insisting on remaining culturally ignorant?

            “I am no body to recognize or otherwise the cause of Jeberti you are right on that but mark my word that you are not going anywhere with this.”

            Contradictory. That seems a threat from someone who carries the banner of rule of law 

            “You said emperor Yohannes coerced the jebertis into converting to Christendom big deal”!

            Do I need to respond to that? Nah.

            “It is pathetic that we even have to discuss about political islam while there are more pressing issues discussing worthwhile on the lost cause of the Eritrean unity.”

            All right, there is nothing in your comment that shows you care for Eritrean unity. It is stark clear you are a proponent of hegemony.

          • Rule of Law

            Dear Saleh
            Really? you think I am “proponent of hegemony” I regard you as one of the brightest Eritrea has to offer and it is a travesty of justice to juxtapose me with this term. All I can say is that you are entitled to your opinion and I’m hopping that you don’t mean it. I am all for ethnic diversity if this helps bring about social cohesion among Eritreans.My dad’s best friend was a jeberti whom he addressed “ዓርከይ ዓብደራዝቅ” what I’m trying to say is the jebertis and people of other faith coexisted in the land of habesha for thousands of years but now tensions are running high around the world due to the emergence of global islamic fundamentalism (I am sure you know what’s going on in Ethiopia) which is affecting every country in the world and definitely Eritrea is no exception and if not for the tight grip of power by the PFDJ tyrants I am sure sure these meetings similar to the one that took place in Sweden could cumulatively emerge and pose danger to the democratization process in free Eritrea. The land of habesha is fortunate to have people that understand the true meaning of inter-faith cohesion. The solution for peaceful and prosperous Eritrea is the foundation of political platform in which the Hadendowa the Billen the Kunama and so on will be equally represented and this is my tenet. I may have said things that are incongruous to you but the beauty of public discourse lies in its diversity of thinking. Salut !! .

          • Saleh Johar

            Hello Rule of Law,

            Sorry if I offended you, but please remember that I am always offended, and Muslims are offended because they cannot have a meeting, even of a dozen people, without being suspected and their motives questioned. Imagine having to live with that day in and day out. How do you solve such a dilemma where you are perpetually a suspect in your own country, by your own compatriots? I was here since the 911 incident when the Islamophobia spread like wild fire–since then, I swear I was never harassed by any one, or faced any inconvenience for being a Muslim, but by my Eritrean compatriots. That is unfair, unpatriotic, and disgusting. I hope the context helps you see it from the perspective of the victims of the assault.

            Take care and apologies again

          • Rule of Law

            Dear Saleh,
            I didn’t expect you to apologize but I will take it as a bonus. You know, we learn a lot from the two Salehs’ younis and Johar, YG and many others and you guys are a treasure in the world wide web and your input is priceless. As to the issue of being a suspect in your own country, you have to understand that the PFDJs don’t even trust their own shadow but you ought look past the atrocious era of PFDJ who controls everything even individual day to day affairs of Eritreans at home and abroad but who is about to cave-in at its own sheer weight. The heydays of Eritrea are in its future and I am very optimistic the Singapore we heard as a prank will materialize in Eritrea in our lifetime once the tyrants are booted out. Don’t the Christians do it all the time? Nay Mariam, Nay Abunearegawi tsebel? which is a gathering for like minded Habesha and who is to say you can’t hold the same event? I see ignorant comments both among Ethiopians and Eritreas alike but these folks don’t have the right to define who Saleh Johar is? Thanks you.

  • AOsman

    Dear Beyan,

    What is that is needed to recognise Jeberties as an ethnic………..this tend to be my issue of confusion.

    The fight to be called Jeberti is in itself empowering PFDJ or whoever thinks along the same line to “consider”, “debate”, “refuse” as though it is his/her right to say “As of today I am convinced and I shall anoint you as Jeberties”. Generally, I find Jeberties to be less tribal, well integrated throughout East Africa (Sudan, Eritrea, Ethiopia and Somalia), but this extra effort to be recognised for something that you should not even request is making us more tribal. I personally don’t like that trend.

    The question of “Menyom Eritrawyan Jebrti” may be beneficial for teaching Jeberti children of their ancestral History coupled with Eritrean and other overarching identities they own. To prove to a third party, a collective identity that will not add or sub-struct your citizen’s right, is a waste of time……that’s my view.

    By the account provided by Mahmoud, many within the “Tigre” ethnic designation may one day say…we are Beni Amer, Mensae, Habab, Marya etc… All we do it say “FINE” and move on, nothing less and nothing more. The same applies to “Tigrigna” and other tribes.

    Having 9 or 50 tribes, what will be the issue that a government will face? Trying to understand the formulation of policies in a nation to accommodate 9 or 50 tribes, if it has an implication may be the appropriate issue to discuss. So far, all I can think of is the Language policy that we have discussed in detail previously. Jeberties tend to fall right in the middle of it by being mostly Tigrigna speakers and in favor of the dual language instruction (Tigrigna/Arabic). I think this is the underlying battle and nothing else. The mock by DIA in the 90’s is a good example to understand my point.

    Regards
    AOsman

    • Semere Andom

      Hi AOsman:
      I see your point, but the issue is telling people who they are. PFDJ and Ghedli arbitraritly boxed people. An example that I am sure readers are tired off that I always mention is this: I read in ELF literature that there were a ethinc group called Elit, but EPLF told this group that they belong to some othere ethnic group, am not sure, which one and instead they introduced Rashaida, Now to your point you can say how about “Fellata or Tokrir”, where does it stop?

      The issue is PFDJ tells people who they are and as your said mockingly and when people are mocked they tend to push back and that is what the Jeberti are doing. Well integrated group in everything seem to push back now. And this is not a new thing
      But let me share with you an incident that happened when I was in high school in 1988. A Jeberti friend was engaged to leave to Canada as it was customary she held party for her class to dance and say goodbye after the real engagement was finished. So we went, we turned off(dimmed) the lights, tape started playing and the roomful teenagers started dancing and flirting. the our of the blue and elder Jeberti man, who was related to the friend stormed in the room and he lectured us about the movement of the Jeberti nation in Saudi Arabia and other countries. He told us to have fun, but not too much fun and he turned the light on and he left After we picked our Jaws, the party continued, but the lights were never dimmed again
      The point is that this did not spring after independence, it is I believe the long held aspirations of the Jeberti identity and the government, which ever it is, must not tell people who they are, the same with the other ethnic should not tell people who they are.
      I must add that the man was kidnaped from Kassala a year later and never heard of till 1991 when I left Sudan.

  • Sarah Hagos

    [deleted. Follow the comments the moderator made on your earlier posts]

  • dawit

    Hi anwar,
    Let us not politicize things unnecessarily. There is no government rule or decree that denies any group of individual his or her identity. As I indicated we have nine ethnic or nationalistic groupings based on language and geographical locations. Every Eritrean seem to fit within that parameter. If you want to complicate things you can divide the Tigrigna speaking by Seraye, Akele, Hamasein, Jeberti, Asmarino, Aba Shawl, Akria, Geza Kenish, Geza Banda etc. etc the Bilen into Tawqe and Tarqe, Ad Zerit, Ad Zemat Kerenti, etc the Tigre into, Bet Abeza, Bet Shaken, Bet Asgede etc also similarly the other nationalities. But what is the advantage of dividing Eritreans into hundreds of clans. Look what is happening to Somalia, people of same religion and same languages have been killing each other based clan divisions. Is that kind of Eritrea you dream? Is it Eritrea where people died for its national independence irrespective of nationalities, religion, age, sex, rich and poor , farmers, laborers, teachers, traders?
    You can hate PFDJ policies in many other things but I don’t think you can find any fault in grouping Eritreans in nine nationalities, based on their linguistic affinity and geographic dispersion within the country, unless you have some hidden agenda. What kind of political support do you want based on your Jeberti nationality? Do you want the government to record on your passport indicating you are a Jeberty other than your place of birth and Eritrean nationality? Do you want also to add your religion? Suni or Shiat, Orthodox, Catholic, Lutheran etc?

    • Saleh Johar

      dawit,
      Anwar stated he is Ethiopian, you seem to have missed that.

      Let me ask you this: why do we have division along linguistic lines?

      The issue is not as you make it look, typical PFDJ reasoning. The issue is teh Jeberti do not find themselves in all of your government’s representation of what you call “bher Tigrinya.” Nothing there represents them. Besides, you wouldn’t accept if someone decided to name you Michael, You will insist you are dawit. And if they holler Michael until the 60th Sawa Zuria is graduated, dawit will not respond “wehoy!” Why would people give up their name that they carried for centuries just because a brute and his minions whimsically decided so. For you information, that is called a citizen’s right.

      By the way, you said “don’t politicize” this issue. What do you think politics is? Isn’t it managing a society, in all aspects? You might not agree but this is the stuff that politics is made of. Tyrants with political power impose political decisions on citizens when the citizens are not part of the decision making process. That is also called citizens’ right to have a say in the affairs of their country.

      And if you are so concerned about the unity of Eritrea, let’s go ahead and identify the entire people as Tigrinya, That way we can have one united nation!

      • dawit

        SGJ,
        No body define you who you are. You define yourself. PFDJ have grouped nine nationalities in Eritrea and seven Zobas for administrative purposes. If you cant fit in one of the nine nationalities boxes and the seven administrative regions then you are not from Eritrea. The Eritrean identity card records your place of birth, not your nationality or bher. I don’t care if anwar was Ethiopian or Eritrean, I responded to his writing. I don’t fashioned my response based on your or his nationality. The Eritrean nationality is defined as Eritrean not as Tirinya or Jeberti.

    • anwar

      dawit/
      mnew ende mastika lethethkew.
      all that description of villages and sects is irrelevant to what your compatriots are demanding, their demand is simple yes we are HABESHA, we speak Tigrigna and we have our own identity and that is jeberty, whats wrong with that, why should not you respect their demand? when your government formed the language based ethnicity did they consult the public, did they conduct it according to the demand of the population? you see the truth is hiding behind this.
      to let you know I am from tach sefer not from lay sefer.

      • dawit

        anwar,
        tadia yalesfereh gebteh lemn chika tabokaleh? Ke debub bher netsa awchewoch gar lemen atkelakelem. Are you not grouped by EPRDP as Southern nationality instead of Gurage or Weliata? Did they consulted you?.

  • Saleh Johar

    Anwar,
    You kindled my curiosity. The most common attack on Eritrean Jeberti is: “you came from Tigray” as someone put in it in facebook, “Jeberi came from Tigray in 1800. What do they say about you? That you came from Arabia? Please explain how the prejudice against Tigrayan Jeberti is expressed. I would like to know more.

    • anwar

      saleh.
      what proof do they have that jebertys in Eritrea are originally from tigray except hear say like the rest of our biased history, why should not they admit and apply that history to the rest of Tigrigna speaking community in Eritrea? for one to be fair and unbiased.
      I think the core problem is religion ,that is driven from their insecurity and they have developed the habit of bulling other religious followers through different means. they forget their reckless acts could affect the livelihood of our countries men and women without discrimination. the major culprit is the Ethiopian orthodox church in my side of the boarder, it teaches its followers to hate their follow Muslims, I worry about my country’s fate as this kind of injustice could destroy her.

      • Saleh Johar

        Hi Anwar,
        I understand, but please cool down. I need to know.

        Please reply to my question and give me an honest answer: what do they say? Do they also say you are strangers who came from somewhere else? From where, Arabia?

      • Kokhob Selam

        Dear Sir,
        why don’t you answer the question? form where did the Jeberti of Tgray came? are they from Eritrea? I don’t know. you can also answer what you know or say I don’t know and learn from those who knew it.

        part of Eritrean Jeberti are from Tigray originally I think and yes I know the head of the king was right in Sudan. Sudan has kept the head of christian king for years and I am not sure if they have returned it to Ethiopia. the king was against Muslims and he has killed a lot of Jeberti people. I think I read about it somewhere. some immigrated to the place where now is Eritrea. now they are mixed with other Jeberti Eritreans and are Eritreans. those who didn’t leave Tigray are still in Tigray but I think they are not allowed to go to Axum ! not sure you may have to confirm me.

        but easy Anwar. we are only learning.

        • Rahwa T

          Selamat Kokhob Selam,

          You said “…the king was against Muslims and he has killed a lot of Jeberti people.” Now I am getting confused if you can use the words Jeberti and Muslims interchangeability. Again, If you can confidently say that the king was killing Jeberti, I did it happen that there thousands of Muslims in Tigrai and may be another millions of followers of that faith in the rest of his governance south of Tigrai? Do you think your argument is rational?

          • Kokhob Selam

            Dear Rahwa,

            I am also confused after I read yours. did I mean Jebeti are Muslims? wait, I think all Jeberti people are Muslims but all Muslims are not Jeberti. if so happen you convert to Islam I think you can also be called Jebeti..Lol, I am typing slowly because I am not sure if what I am saying is correct.

            do you also ask “Again, If you can confidently say that the king was killing Jeberti, … ”

            Hey, Rahwa I can’t conform anything on this but I only read it and heard it. some even told me the book with this history is in oxford university. Let us make research on this issue together. but regarding the present of Muslims in Ethiopia, that can’t confirm that the king was not killing. Burma is killing everyday Muslims and still there are Muslims there. India have more Muslims than Pakistan but we know all that people in Karachi,Lahore etc were Muhajirin after getting difficult time from Hindu people etc. in such history like Aste Yohans, you will find people among Muslims who confronted him and couldn’t survive which force them leave the nation. and do you think everybody can get chance of going out? no sister. and some may also fallow the instruction of the king till things settle.

            I didn’t still confirm and I didn’t reply to anwar confirming anything. you better ask and read and try to find if what I am saying is true and I will do the same.

  • Mahmud Saleh

    Selam Beyan

    Very interesting subject. Well written. A couple of observations:

    1. Eritreans should be allowed to express their feelings/demands, there is no question there. I will link a paragraph of an article that I wrote almost two years ago which summarizes my view.

    2. My contention will be this: having acknowledged the right of Eritrean groups to discuss their grievances openly, I still believe most of these questions could be addressed in a democratic climate, and our focus should be on materializing that climate. I truly believe organizing based on ethno-factors such as religion, region, race, language…will delay if not hinder the arrival of the democratic umbrella under which everything is going to be discussed- freedom. What we are witnessing are political vectors acting towards different directions. Similar to what I have said in relation to other ethnic based movement, today’s Eritrea is not a good indicators to take matters in to your hands where we will be stuck waiting for the other side to give in. Most of the grievances we see in Today’s Eritrea should be answered in the next democratically ratified constitution, or at least a space should be left there on how to deal with those issues in the future (it could be an article, subarticle or clause…). This is in regard with organizing for the purpose of political gains.

    3. As far as our brothers and sisters of the jeberti community wanting to define their identity, they will have to consider me one of them (and my thoughts are in that paragraph). No body should impose identity on others. By the way, could you please take the “Tigre” title from me, please? I never heard that until I attend politicawi temhrti. Tigre people are more comfortable to identify themselves with “Ad” which could be a clan, and then “Qebilet/Ghebilet” or a tribe. From Zula/east to OmHajer/west, they deal with each other at tribal level (this is for civil justice issues, and identifications). Ghedli tried to kill the tribe but it could not. There are many tribes to name, but the biggest ones are Almeda, Asfeda, Regbat,…Gadi or aderob could list some of them. The point is: those nine “nationalities” which in reality are amalgamations of lingual groups and federations, were constructed when modern politics entered the scene. And they were constructed and identified as such by foreigners with little knowledge of their interrelations with each other. For instance, most Tigre Tribes have close connections with Tigrigna; they are also intermarried with many other social groups, blin, Hidareb, Nara, Rashaida, Saho, Afar and Tigrigna.
    4. I wish you gave us a summary of the papers presented, and a link to the book; and if possible a paragraph about it….
    5. This is how I see the matter, and I believe it should not raise eye brows.
    “ምስ’ዚ ትኸይድ ኣላ። ቀላል እያ። ህዝቢ ዝመስሎ ምትእኽኻብ ክገብርን ዝመረጾ ስም ወይ ኣካል(entity) ክለብስ መሰል ናይቶም ሰብ ጉዳይ ጥራይ እዩ። ሓደ ወዲ ትግረ ንሓደ ዓሳውርታይ “ሽምካ ከምዚ ይኹን፡ እዚ እንተዘይኮንካ ኣይኣምነልካን እየ” ክብሎ መሰል የብሉን። ኣሕዋትና ጀበር ድማ ድላዮም ውዳበን ስምን ይሓዙ ክሳብ ብሓፈሻዊ ድሌት ዝኾነን ዘይተስገደደን፡ ናቶም መሰል እዩ። ሓወይ ወዲ ትግርኛ ክህሰ እንከሎ ንዓይ የሐመኒ እዩ። ኣሕዋተይ ጀበር ክሳብ ክንዲ’ዚ ክዝለፉ ከለዉ ‘ውን የቀንዝወኒ እዩ። ዝጀሃረሎም ወገን የለን። ልመና ‘ውን ክኸውን ኣይግባእን። ብመጠን ቁጽሮም ልዕሊ ሰቦም እንተዘይኮይኑ ትሕቲ ሰቦም ኣይወዓሉን። ጎባጢ ኣተሓሳስባ ዘለዎ ጥራይ እዩ ነዚ ኣቀራርባ ‘ዚ ከም ስግኣት ዝውስድ።”

    • Saleh Johar

      Hi Mahmuday,
      Many young people do not believe when I say I have never come across any Tigrayet speaker who identified himself as Tigre before the last decade or so. Tigre used to be derogatory term given its historical evolution. Now we cannot call the Beni Amer, Mensae, Habab, Marya, Tsawra, Gedgede, Meshalit, etc by their name–it is sub-national they say 🙂

      It’s nice of you to mention Regbat, the clan of Ibrahim Sultan, the clan that gave him the enlightenment to wage the first emancipation struggle in Africa, long before MLK 🙂

      Ibrahim Sultan and his followers waged a struggle to erase that demeaning Term and now here we are. Our local Khewajas are involved in social re-engineering. Thanks my “Tigre” friend, from your “Tigrinya” friend. So corny 🙂

      • Sarah Hagos

        [Moderator: begin your comment with Salutation]

        It’s the same with the socalled “tigrigna ethnic group”…. There never existed a tigrigna ethnic group. There were 2 main climatic and geological divisions in Eritrea…. The Lowland (Met’Haht) and the highland (Kebessa). The wrongly called tigrigna people, consider themselves as people who live in Kebessa…. We are Kebessan by living, but not by ethnicity. A socalled tigrigna christian from a place in akkele guzay might be more related to a beni amer in sahel than with anyone else in the highlands… Just about all highlanders are related in clan with lowlanders…..because the lowlanders used to come and live 6 months in the highland and 6 months in the lowlands…. and ultimately we are all bejas…and semetics.. ALL…And the Kebessa people moved and remained in one place…. we became “different” during the last beja wars in around 1200 AD… and the annoying Tigrai invaders… the lowlanders stopped coming to the highland because of these wars….. inter-clan-beja wars in the highland and the Tigrai wanting our land. As a lamza, I know I have families in the lowland…now called tigre and beja.

      • Sarah Hagos

        [From the moderator: please read the posting guidelines because you are already violating it. Begin your comment with Salutation, and to avoid stereotyping and racist remarks, and read the posting guidelines here: http://awate.com/posting-guidelines/%5D

        Once we kick the xxxxx out of our house, it shall be like before! Nice and Delicious in the Eritrean way. Just, one question…. after the last inter-clan-beja wars in the highlands, our country was called Medri Bahri. Was it the same in tigre and beja language? Because, I think (only my theory though, never read this anywhere)… because of these wars in the highlands, we got different laws in the highlands, democratically decided and we started to be ruled by them in peace. My theory is this happened because we lost so much in the wars, specially to the xxxxxx from the south raiding us none stop! Do you guys know about this? And what happened in the lowlands by then? I know nothing!!!! 🙁 🙁 This xxxx xxxxx…., by now I should have known so much more about my people and my country.

        *If you don¨t love yourself, your mom and dad, then your clan, then your region, you can´t love your country!*

    • dawit

      Dear Mahamudai,
      On this subject you are peddling cheap politics.

      • Mahmud Saleh

        What’s up dawitom
        Remember the TBS has recognized your right to identify yourself as an Ethiopian first, and then as an Eritrean. You see, people have the right to choose to define themselves, very easy.
        Obviously, you can’t mischaracterize my long Hateta with one toothless sentence.

        • dawit

          Mahmudai,
          You are wrong on my identity, there is no first or second but Eritrean and Ethiopian from birth, and nobody can accept it or rejected including TBS. I define my identity, the way I want it to be.. On the long answer to your long Hateta, you can scan it from the various comments I have made on the subject.

          • Mahmud Saleh

            Ahlan dawitom

            You said, “I define my identity, the way I want it to be.”
            OK, fair enough. Take that now to cover a social group.That’s what I’m saying. That’s what Saleh GJ is saying. So, where is my peddling cheap politics?

          • dawit

            Merhaba Mahmudai,
            You know it these nine nationalities were not defined yesterday or by PFDJ, they were there at the start of EPLF clearly defined in Nihnan Elamanan political manifesto. You believed it then and you fought accepted as given and was ready to die for it. I don’t know why you argue to have ninety-nine nationalities groupings today?.
            Bekit Lali wdehan meye.

          • Saleh Johar

            dawit.
            You who is not sure if he is Ethiopian or Eritrean is so emboldened by the rascals in Asmara that you have the audacity to define people? My friend, you type are the problem here, you want the best of two worlds, you are so mad at Ethiopia for deporting you that you cling to the PFDJ and zealously defend it. If you were not deported you would still be saying shifta Hamassen.

          • dawit

            Saleh,
            Wrong again saleh. I am sure as the day light that I am an Eritrean and Ethiopian, unlike you who is not sure if you are Jeberti or Eritrean. I don’t have conflict in my nationalities. . You are right I like the best of both worlds in fact the whole world! So you see saleh, some of us are blessed to love and support those who stand and fight for justice and not with temporary calculus of gain and loss. It seem you have lost your temper. Take it easy it only a debate.

          • Saleh Johar

            See dawit!
            Now you want to give me a choice to rid myself of one of my identities! It is the proverbial qomaTa preparing your fitfit, as they say in Ethiopia.

            I am Saleh, an Eritrean, a Muslim, a Jeberti, a Kerenite, they are all layers of the identity that I carry, inseparable. So, dawit the Ethiopian, Eritrean, American needs to decide before anyone else. My suggestion will be go back to enToTo and lord over the Ethiopians if you can.

          • Semere Andom

            Hi Saleh:
            We by habit say the war was bad for both countries, that is partly true but the war was waged in the Eritrean land and the victims by deliberate or accidents were the Eritrean people.When dawit’s mother was enjoying the sugar in her Ukub coffee my mother probably yours too were using salt in their coffee, when we were hiding from the plane bombing when leaving to Sudan, the dawits who discovered their Eritrean ancestor thanks to Woyane were ridding planes. The likes of dawit profited from the war before and they are doing the same now. “mussiba quewmin fewaeend Liakrin”, can you translate to Amharic that for dawit, please:-)
            Also some correction, if dawit is called he will never say “wohoy”, every man in PFDJ says “eyyey” this days.
            That is why the deprotation was not bad, it was just indiscriminate , Eritrea and Ethiopia will be better now had the Woyane’s targeted the PFDJ ‘jewasis” in their country and arrested them for spying.

          • Saleh Johar

            Semere Andom,

            How true. Eyyey is the proper one that I should have used. Good catch.

            Amel ms megnez. They decided for all and took us to obliteration and once we came out of that, they jumped in and controlled the life of Eritreans, And now, theyw ant to run Eritrea, Ethiopia and the Diaspora on calculations of enda teHaneet, a two room merebaA, and cheap vacation. No principle, no compassion, just arrogant aspiration to lor over both Eritrea and Ethiopia. And they question our patriotism!!!

          • dawit

            Semere.,
            Semere every time I write some thing you jump on my children with your filthy languages and now you drag my mother into the discussion. My mother was drinking coffee with sugar when your mother was using salt. So what? and when you and your family were running to Sudan my mother has a son Tegadalai bleeding for Eritrea’s independence. You also wrote that I discovered my Eritrean ancestors because of Woyane! Waw!!, if you want to know my ancestors next time if you visit Keren, when you reach ‘Bloko’,at Hashela, they have a new restaurant ask the people around there whose tombs are those by the side of the main Keren Asmara road, with large heaps of stones and you will discover my great ancestors there. Ask about the one with the largest tomb there and people still remembers it from centuries even today. And if you want to know my recent ancestors and relatives, go to Ketsetai and will find dozens of them buried there. Visit Geza Woreket and you will find my fathers and grandparent homes still standing. So you see Semere, unlike you my root is deep in Keren, Eritrea and I knew it long before you discovered that you were Eritrean and now you have lost it completely and you are begging Woyane to give you the lost identity. My advice to you is forget about Eritrea, settle well in Canada eating your ham.

          • Semere Andom

            Cousin dawit:
            I see you have demoted me;-)
            I did not drag your good mother, you mentioned her before as a chair of the Uqub so to make the point that you had it good, I mentioned her, again the heavy lifting of the suffering was borne my the people who lived in Eritrea and not those who thought they were Eritreans from afar, that was the point so do not go moaning about that. I do not care about your roots and I do not have any reason to doubt your origins, it matters not. what matters is if Woyane did not deport you will still be there milking Ethiopia and going to Eritrea for summer vacation and probably ridiculing the backward country that Eritrea is and telling the Ethiopians that you were Ethiopian before they discovered they were one. That was the point. The debate that you chose to be part will be heated and will burn you some time, you are here to insult identities and languages by reading PFDJ’s paly books so deal with it cousin or at least be original The rest we can hash it over tea in your Keren, you can show me the tombs of your forefathers and I can show you my cities and village of my forefathers in both sides.
            Also, never mind about my diet, I do not eat ham, Gored-Gored or Kitffo
            So tell me when did I discover I was Eritrean sir, you seem to throw that every time you loose stamina. Your advice is rejected, I cannot forget my only country, no luxury of a second country for me. If I have omitted things, let me know I can address them

          • Mahmud Saleh

            marHaba beka dawitom
            Relax, dawitom. Social merge and disintegrate depending on necessities that bring them to existence, politics, economics….migrations…
            The best way you can do at this time is to tell bxaay IA to let the process of REAL NATION BUILDING begin. That includes free expression and participatory democracy. In that case since it is all about peaceful bargaining, people tend to act more realistic since they have to convince other. Let say, if I have to promote my identity (say, Mahmudenet) I will have the right to do that, but I will have to convince you, Semere, KS, AH…in order for me to have a legally recognized entity. Because at the end it will be through people’s representatives of all the regions (and indirectly from all the other groups) that I will get legal recognition. This is strictly concerning practical and tactical aspect of the matter.
            Another important point is that you have to trust that the people raising these questions are equally patriotic, and nationalists. You should not jump at questioning their motives like saying “you musy have a hidden agenda…” LISTEN, GET INVOLVED (REBI SEBR LAHABEKA, EZENKA HABOM).
            The nine nationalities? Ethnic groups? bhierat? let Amanuel Hidrat have his morning coffee on this. I trust the people, and I am fine with how they define themselves. Tolerance starts here…

          • Semere Andom

            Hi Mahmuday:
            Do me a favour please, will you
            write me a poem addressing cousin hope in Tigrayit titled “simmeche sirE gebEt”, this is in response to Hope addressing me as only “him” in his reply to you simeche sirE wedeya will also do-
            Also dawit, the Eritrean and the Ethiopian is thinking in Amharic, please correct him, he said to you bekit lali, Lali is ‘muAnessa” so tell him lali bekitet, now Hope will be charmed and he will call me Semere huye wed abuye instead of him;-)
            Also while you are there translate ‘muAnessa for dawit as he does not speak the language of ISIS;-)

          • Mahmud Saleh

            SabaH alful Semere
            I must have missed cousin Hope’s reply in which he somehow tries to point at you.
            dawitom’s mom is a Tigrayt speaker per a hint he gave me last year. He said she would remind him to be patient by saying “la asbera mayu tsera. ” understandably, his Tigrayt could be “shewaya. ..she way a ” due to his another country’s deep connection. Your correction is in place. Take a note dawitom’s. Lali takes a famine form of the verb. Lali bekitet would be the correct way to say it.
            I have a feeling dawitom and Angafaw abi could agitate to have their new social group recognized. They will have many people in this category, Ahgur aquarach sebsb, or organization.

    • Yohannes

      Dear Mahmuday,

      There is the great statement of yours appearing here, again. But I don’t think many will give heed to it. Because, sadly, the naming and un-naming of Tigre is more interesting.

      My favourite idea of yours which I have noticed you have been repeating:

      “I truly believe organizing based on ethno-factors such as religion, region, race, language…will delay if not hinder the arrival of the democratic umbrella under which everything is going to be discussed, freedom. What we are witnessing are political vectors acting towards different directions.”

      “Similarly to what I have said in relation to other ethnic based movements, today’s Eritrea is not a good indicator for social groups to take matters into their hands where we will be stuck in sectorial based partisanship, waiting for the other side to give in. Most of the grievances we see in Today’s Eritrea should be answered in the next democratically ratified constitution, or at least these questions and similar ones should be given a space in the constitution on how to deal with them in the future”

      Well, Mahmuday, if the opposition leaders accept and implement this idea their job will be boring, right? How would they show their rhetorical skills and where would they get an audience for their research papers that show ‘how different’ the kinsmen are if all the opposition aligns to one task of removing the cancer?

      Sorry to say this, but in a way it is good that the divisive and crazy mentality among the diaspora doesn’t penetrate the media-proof Eritrea.

  • Saleh Johar

    Dear Merhawi,

    One needs justification only for something needs justification. If you call yourself Merhawi in real life, you do not need justification for carrying that name. Jeberti do not need justification for being called Jeberti.

    Let me give you an insight:

    The term “Jeberti” existed for centuries while the term “Tigrinya” was imposed on the people in the last few decades. Yet, you want to force a “Merhawi” to call himself something else. Instead of asking and opposing the new PFDJ imposed term of Tigrinya for a people (it is the name of the language) you wonder why the Jeberti should be called that as if they just discovered the term.

    Once a witty Jeberti made a proposal: Okay, let’s call every Tigrinya speaker a Jeberti since it is older—then, if need be, we can idetify them as Muslim Jeberti and Christian Jeberti. How about that?

    The Jeberti know them,selves as Jeberti. They know their language as Tigrinya, and they have no qualms about identifying themselves as Habesha (again, the PFDJ doesn’t like this word and want to replace it with Tigrinya)

    Whether the Jeberti are “biher” or not is a non-Jeberti debate. Jebertis are not concerned with it. They just know they are

    • sara

      Dear abu adal, “Whether the Jeberti are “biher” or not is a non-Jeberti debate. Jebertis are not concerned with it. They just know they are”

      brief and right- statement/answer to all.

  • dawit

    Dear All,
    What is the point of this discussion. Is there anyone who denied the Jeberti their Eritrean identity. Unless the Jeberti denied themselves their own Jebertiness I see no one denying them their identity as jeberties or Eritreans. We have nine nationalities ethnic groupings based on languages, maybe that is for convenience. If we want to expand that grouping of nationalities based on religion or residency, we can have hundreds or even thousands where each village claiming as a separate nationality. Tigrnya Pentecostal, Bilen Catholics, Kunama Orthodox, Tigre Kenisha etc, I think it is enough we claim our Eritreaness as common identity to all. Let us not complicate things, by claiming who died first or last, who paid and how much. They all died and contributed for Eritrea, regardless of their religion or nationalities. If we are denied our Eritrean nationality, then that is some thing to worry about, otherwise this may be another enemy plot to create disunity among the people.

    • tes

      Dear dawit,

      You wrote, “…otherwise this may be another enemy plot to create disunity among the people.”

      Man, I didn’t thought that you are good also at conspiracy theory. Well I forgot, you have to follow the order of your king, sorry.

      tes

      • dawit

        tes,
        dawit knows every thing a crossed eye fly!
        cheers!

        • dawit

          Correction ‘even recognizes a crossed eye fly’- direct translation from Amharic idioms

      • Sara Hagos

        Deleted

  • cool

    hi, according to wikipedia an ethnic group is a group that shares the same language ,same culture and same religion.
    Now let us analise if all (or most) of the above attributes are applicabel in case of eritrean jeberties.
    Langauge; Eritrean jeberties speak tigrigna as mother tongue ,they share this langauge not only among themseves but with tigrigna ethnic group together.,even there is no way of distinguishing jebertie!s tigrigna accent from the high lander tigrigna accent.
    conclusion=Langauge aspect FAILED.
    Religion; jeberties belong to the eritrean moslem community group, but the eritrean moslems community embraces not only jeberties but also many other ethnic groups like bilen tigre etc. so we see here also they share this attribute not only amongs themselves but togethere with other ethnic groups.
    conclusion=religion aspect FAILED
    Culture; there is no distinct jeberty dancing ,or jeberty music or marriage ceremony (exept they marry their cousins but that is also a normal practice in the eritrean lowlands)
    Conclusion =Culture aspect FAILED
    Now let us take one ethnic group for example tigre and compare it with jeberti.
    Langauge= tigre(spoken only amongs group members) PASSED
    Culture =unique music and dancing, singing ceremony PASSED
    Religion = they share it with other ethnic groups FAILED
    so in this case we see most of the criteria fullfilled while in case of jeberty none of the criteria was fulfilled.
    Sorry donot be annoyed of my finding it is just scientific, never the less i believe everybody born in eritrea is an eritrean.

  • Yigermal

    Sorry, continued.
    That involve the Jeberti issue. We should all care about this issue anyway, if we have a vision of a just, peaceful and prosperous Etitrea where all stakeholders pursue happiness the way the deem it. I am also always shocked when many are all up in arms when the Jeberti Eritreans attempt to reclaim their rights, also they had no qualms when DIA single handedly promoted the Rashiadas to an ethnic group, who, to my knowledge, contributed very little to Eritrea past or present, beside being DIA’ s drug, arms and human traffickers. In addition, what right do we non-Jeberti have to redifine their identity? For those of us that do not understand their quest because of luck of exposure, let’s keep an open mind and listen to their rationale. We will all ultimately become richer by not only learning the unique Erittean experience that we bring by virtue of our diversity, but by empathizing with each Individual and group struggle to be recognized. My own disclaimer of ignorance , I know very little about the Rashida other tge and anecdotal stories from ghedli and Sawa participants, therefore, I will gladly stand corrected. Thanks

    • dawit

      Yigermal,
      You admit your ignorance about the Rashidas and yet you spewed your poisonous venom about them! Really yigermal! I don’t know the AT traffic police were doing when an Eritrean nationality being degraded. Did not even gave you a warning ticket. Yigermal

  • cool

    hi, according to wikipedia an ethnic group is a group that shares the same language ,same culture and same religion.
    Now let us analise if all (or most) of the above attributes are applicabel in case of eritrean jeberties.
    Langauge; Eritrean jeberties speak tigrigna as mother tongue ,they share this langauge not only among themseves but with tigrigna ethnic group together.,even there is no way of distinguishing jebertie!s tigrigna accent from the high lander tigrigna accent.
    conclusion=Langauge aspect FAILED.
    Religion; jeberties belong to the eritrean moslem community group, but the eritrean moslems community embraces not only jeberties but also many other ethnic groups like bilen tigre etc. so we see here also they share this attribute not only amongs themselves but togethere with other ethnic groups.
    conclusion=religion aspect FAILED
    Culture; there is no distinct jeberty dancing ,or jeberty music or marriage ceremony (exept they marry their cousins but that is also a normal practice in the eritrean lowlands)
    Conclusion =Culture aspect FAILED
    Now let us take one ethnic group for example tigre and compare it with jeberti.
    Langauge= tigre(spoken only amongs group members) PASSED
    Culture =unique music and dancing, singing ceremony PASSED
    Religion = they share it with other ethnic groups FAILED
    so in this case we see most of the criteria fullfilled while in case of jeberty none of the criteria was fulfilled.
    Sorry donot be annoyed of my finding it is just scientific, never the less i believe everybody born in eritrea is an eritrean.

    • Saleh Johar

      Dear Cool.

      That’s not cool at all.

      Now that your exercise showed that Jeberti failed in all you lab test, what do you want them to do? Declare, “based on Cool’s exercise, we will all go through a program to erase the term Jeberti from our collective memory”?

      The problem is that the PFDJ uses the same exercise to make decision on many things. The result is there for all to see 🙂 But good luck in your lab.

      • cool

        Dear saleh johar.
        My finding is based on sceintific terminologies, i am not the one who offers or denies a group of people their identities.
        In order jeberties to acquire a status of an ethnic group ,terminologies in social sceince should be redifined ,furthermore that woud have a disasterous impact on the rest of our soceity,as you will then have eg, the akeleguzai come up with the same argument and want to be recognized as an ethnic group???why donot we think big and think of a union intead of divisions?

        • Saleh Johar

          Selam Cool,
          Trying to find “scientific terminologies” is your project, not the Jebertis. Indeed, you or anyone else is not a giver and taker of identities. Good point.

          You just remember the argument “Is Jeberti and Ethnic group?” is your argument. Not mine. Not of the Jeberti that I know. That is because they were called Jeberti and knew themselves as such centuries before your lab and scientific terminologies were created.

          Big union? Excellent. Tell that to the PFDJ: why did you classify the people whimsically? Why can’t we just be citizens whatever our other identities are? Then think, to avoid the imapct because you said you are afraid “the Akeleguzai will come up with some argument and want to be recognized as an ethhnic group” is something you have to deal with putting their rights on top of other things. The best solution for your dilemma is to call every Eritrean Tigrinya and then we will all hold hands and sing Kumbaya for a united country!

          • cool

            Dear johar
            look the case of jeberties in eritrea is not my dilemma, and if it is a dilemma at all (you call it by name
            ) it is jebertie!s dilemma.This dilemma emanates from assertion ,that they come to ertrea as the result of religios
            persecution under johans the second from ethiopia some hunderd years ago.This gives the jeberties the feeling of not being a geniun eritrean citzens .This mind setting and some ugly comments from the tigrigna ethnic group makes them a little inferior towards their tigrigna ethnic brothers and want to claim their own ethnic entity by hook or by crook ,which is near to impossibel as far as sceintific therminologies are concerned. But i see it the other way , nobody has the authority to name first class and second class citzens in eritrea, every body born in eritrea is an eritrean.All ethnic groups fought and died for the sake of ertitrean motherland and all have the the same right to feel comfortabel in their homeland.
            United we are strong.

          • Saleh Johar

            Cool,
            It becomes your dilemma when you believe your perception (which is build on years of prejudice) is the truth.

            Dear cool, the Jeberti didn’t come to Eritrea a hundred years ago. Some might have, but others have been there for centuries, maybe a millennium. Also, many Eritreans came to their present habitat in Eritrea over the last few centuries, a big chunk during the thirties and forties. Read history and you will find a big chunk of non-Jeberti Eritreans came in the 19th and 20th centuries. Why do you think all the Jebertis are new settlers while the rest have grown there as trees?

            That is what you need to correct in your perception and knowledge. Only then we can debate this with rational. Jebertis have been in Eritrea longer than many others, why pick on them alone?

          • cool

            Dear johar,
            it seems that you are missunderstanding my point ,by the way i am sympathising with jeberties .I meant jeberties should feel comfortabel in their homeland ertirea.I just was trying to explain the deep psyco behind their stubbornly insistence of having their own ethnic group.
            And thank you for the enlightenment that jeberties were there for millenium , i would appreciate, if you post a refference book to this issue.

          • Saleh Johar

            Selam Cool,
            Okay, let me try one more time.

            1. Jebertis are confortable in their homeland Eritrea, you make it sound as if they are not. That is wrong.
            2. Please do not psycho-analyse Jebertis, anyone for that matter. It is insulting.
            3. I cannot deny there a few who do that, to me, the term “ethnic” was not even invented when the Jeberti were called that. I don’t know hoe you allege “stubbornly insistence”. It is not true. Personally, I don’t care how you define “ethnic”, all I know is I am Jeberti and will remain so. Whether you define Jeberti as an ethnic group or nort, is not a Jeberti debate–that is what I believe.
            4. You want me to present you a reference book to show you that Jeberti were there for a Millennium. Now tell me, why would I do that? Isn’t all of this abuse you see because someone wrote a book to educate and offer reference to those who don’t know? Why do you acquire the book in question? It will answer most, if not all, of your curiosity.

            There is no misunderstanding, Cool. Just assertive debate.

        • Amanuel Hidrat

          Dear cool,
          Are you really equating Jeberti with Akeleguzay (Alyet with zoba hager)? I think you are not debating on a sober mind. How will you define by your scientific terminology what Jeberti and Akleguzay are?

          • cool

            Let me enlighten you what you seem not to know, akeleguzais they think they are the unique and geniun ertrean treib(aliet)

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Selam Cool,

            Your perceptions are baseless. May be you heard from someone who wanted you to play with your mind. Otherwise there is no such political argument whatsoever. Your comment tells who you are and from where you are. Stop this divisive comment.

            regards,
            Amanuel Hidrat

  • Ayneta

    Dear Kokob Selam:
    I agree when you said that we should respect other people’s choice. I think it is a noble notion that has to be nurtured and cultivated. However, just because some say they choose a certain thing does not mean that it should be granted. I am not advocating treating the case for Jeberati as fanatical. But I also strongly believe that we should not rash into granting something which may not have substantive and historical basis and may have far reaching consequence . I think the case of jeberati has been an issue since long and it calls for careful consideration before we simply grant it a green light just because some section of the society wants it now.

    In similar vein, I personally dont encourage entertaining such issues at this junction in time as we have more important burning issues that heed our utmost focus and energy. We should be careful not get distracted with such secondary developments, our primary issue being the safety and whereabouts of our people. We simply have too many clear and present problems at hand to debate about the place of Jeberati in Eritrea at this critical time.

    • Kokhob Selam

      Dear Ayneta,
      what will be more important than the dignity of people? By the way why we have called by name other ethnic groups recognizing their ethnicity and not jebdrti or is that when comes to other ethnic group it is urgent but not for Jeberti? Anyhow we are only discussing but even those who are recognized as ethnic groups are suffering not less than Jeberti under PFJD. But it is now we should be ready .

      All the problems we have are connected being a nations without rule and system the first – that can be done when you hear the cry of entire nation and the case of Jeberti is one. then only we can talk what kind of government we should have. we can even create our own system which is not exported from others. we can use mixed system, what ever the case we can’t have a nation who don’t respect choices.

      in fact i feel it is time to talk the case now as things may change even accidentally as PFDJ is going down fast and surprise is inevitable. one of the dangerous thing PFDJ may do at it’s last moment is burning fire between brothers and knowing the truth now will prevent us from unnecessary conflicts.

    • tes

      Dear Ayneta,

      Who is to grant and to whom? Ypu wrote,

      “But I also strongly believe that we should not rash into granting something which may not have substantive and historical basis and may have far reaching consequence .”

      By implication, you are saying that there is someone who grants and someone to be granted. What are the scales to be considered as someone to grant and another to be granted?

      Aren’t they all Eritreans who live in the territories of Eritrea equal? Is there anyone who is above the other?

      tes

  • cool

    hi, according to wikipedia an ethnic group is a group that shares the same language ,same culture and same religion.
    Now let us analise if all (or most) of the above attributes are applicabel in case of eritrean jeberties.
    Langauge; Eritrean jeberties speak tigrigna as mother tongue ,they share this langauge not only among themseves but with tigrigna ethnic group together.,even there is no way of distinguishing jebertie!s tigrigna accent from the high lander tigrigna accent.
    conclusion=Langauge aspect FAILED.
    Religion; jeberties belong to the eritrean moslem community group, but the eritrean moslems community embraces not only jeberties but also many other ethnic groups like bilen tigre etc. so we see here also they share this attribute not only amongs themselves but togethere with other ethnic groups.
    conclusion=religion aspect FAILED
    Culture; there is no distinct jeberty dancing ,or jeberty music or marriage ceremony (exept they marry their cousins but that is also a normal practice in the eritrean lowlands)
    Conclusion =Culture aspect FAILED
    Now let us take one ethnic group for example tigre and compare it with jeberti.
    Langauge= tigre(spoken only amongs group members) PASSED
    Culture =unique music and dancing, singing ceremony PASSED
    Religion = they share it with other ethnic groups FAILED
    so in this case we see most of the criteria fullfilled while in case of jeberty none of the criteria was fulfilled.
    Sorry donot be annoyed of my finding it is just scientific, never the less i believe everybody born in eritrea is an eritrean.

    • anwar

      hi cool.
      you failed to make a cooool analyses and you forgot to analyse Tigrigna. ok do not worry I will do it for you using your own format.
      language=shared by others including by people beyond the national boarder.
      religion= identical to that of their cousins beyond the boarder.
      culture= the exact replica of again who?? tigray , so does this conform the ethnicity of Tigrigna Eritrean as an ethnic group? according to you it failed in all counts.
      that’s coooool.

      • cool

        Dear anwar ,you have to concentrate on the topic ,now we are discussing who are the jeberties?do you come up with the story of japanes ,if your teacher gives you the homework to write about the history of aborigines ?no that is not cool.
        let the topic be tigrigna ethnic group then you will get from me cool analisis

        • anwar

          hi cool.
          I gave your scribble a good attention and it is just that nothing more. …….

          • cool

            dear anwar
            One should have to have a goog comrehensive abilities in order to understand a “scribbel”

  • Yigermal

    Dear Beyan, thank for shedding light on such an important yet controversial issue with immeasurably ramifications on Eritrean past and feature. As a matter of disclosure, I am favorably biased toward the Jeberti’ quest toreclaim their God given. I am a Christian not only raised in an area where Hebert where the majority but also the most prosperous and generous towards their Christian neighbors, but so where my ancestors down three generations. I want bore with obvious details about my experiennce with childhood friends, etc. But I am compelled to disclose that my Jeberti elders contributes to my upbringing by helping financially, emotionally and above all they widened our view of the world and enriched our ability to embrace diversity. I consider myself very lucky as I can share my experience and enlighten other Eritrean that may not have had my experience. It is with that in mind that I willing engage in debates

  • Kokhob Selam

    Dear Masrba,
    that is not difficult to answer, the bit difficult question will be if you ask like this – what do you call those who don’t know from where they came but they have stayed for generations. Thanks to Europeans colonialism since they have been before that, they are still Eritreans.
    Now, the most difficult question will be if you ask who are those first Eritreans. yet, you can find the easiest and perfect answer with question,— does that matter?

  • Kokhob Selam

    Dear Ketema,

    it seems to me you are giving example those who try to please PFDJ, whom they call themselves educated intellectuals from Addis and other Arab countries. 14? Hahaha, I use to call them ኳትሮ ደቺ ፍልዮ ዲካነ sorry I am not calling them now, that was when I was young. My friend those opportunists are not Jeberti representatives. you don’t have to pay money to PFDJ to be recognized as ethnic group. and who is PFDJ even to decide who should be considered ethnic group? under which legal base PFDJ can even talk about it? it is till the dust settled so not to complicate the case Jeberti handle it carefully. they trust their sisterly Ethnic groups and they turst their deeply rooted history. .so ጓል ዘረባ ንግደፎ !

  • Saleh Johar

    Masrba,
    Simple. You call them Eritreans.

  • Ketema

    To Rahwa & to all those deniers
    of Jeberti-Nationality,

    Know that there areSwedish-Jebertis, European-Jebertis, Eritrean-Jebertis, Ethiopian-Jebertis,Sudanese-Jebertis, Somalis-Jebertis,etc etc. So, don’t mix up the two identities, Nationality &ethnicity.
    The Jebertis are peaceful and good hinges enabling to open heavy doors. In this regard, let me take you back to 1959, when Abdulkadir Khiar, as a successful hinge or link btwn the highlanders and the lowlanders of Eritrea, threw the first housewarming party for “Free-Eritrea” in his own house, where all the Mahber Shewate members met for the first time inside Eritrea. That day was the first a declaration was made for regaining the rights of Eritrea and Eritreans. That day was the first day Eritreans came together to say “Yes to a Free Eritrea” from a courageous Jeberti house. And that day was a day to declare that the first Eritrean martyr “Abdulkadir Kebire” didn’t die in vain. See, the three initiators (the first martyr, the first to risk his life and his family’s to house the first meeting inside Eritrea, and the first gun supplier) were Abulkadir(s) and all three were Jebertis.

    Ketema

  • tes

    Dear Ketema,

    When I read such amateurish argument, I simply laugh. Thanks now I have another buddy to make me laugh. The other two are Mr. dawit and Mr. Hope.

    tes

    • dawit

      tes,
      When you don’t have any clue to debate someone you come with a phrase this ‘Funny’! I think you inherited that trick from your old boss PIA. When PIA does not know the answer to question, he will simply say ‘this is boring’ and ‘this again its boring’, ‘that is also boring’. That is Funny how you unconsciously have become slave of your old master. That is Funny! I am laughing and caughing!

      • tes

        Dear dawit,

        Where is your bible by the way? I missed your quotes.

        Honestly I have nothing to debate with you. You are right when you say “When you don’t have any clue to debate someone you come with a phrase this ‘Funny’!” I say that because I have no clue on what someone is saying. And sometimes I see them as amateurish lines.

        By the way, don’t criticise your king. The Good Book says, “obey your king.” Therefore don’t go in mess with your Znegese Nigusna Saga”.

        tes

        • dawit

          tes,

          don’t worry about me criticizing my king, I have the special diplomatic immunity. It is true most of the time you have no clue on what people are debating, you just jump in the middle confused and pretend as if you know every thing. You wanted a biblical quote read the book of Luke and find this verse “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”.

          • tes

            Dear dawit,

            There is a language in which one can understand. I am using that methodology* to knock you and it is perfectly working.

            My friend, you good buddy. Thanks for the verse by the way.

            tes

            * It will be a secret for now. I won’t tell you.

  • Abi

    Hi Ketema
    It looks like the jebertis have contributed for the realization of eritrea much more than I expected.
    You said they contributed and delivered $ 750.000 to the eritrean embassy in Addis. When was that? Why did they contribute the money? Do you think they contributed more than other eritreans in Addis?
    Thanks

  • rahwa

    For me it
    makes no sense. I only see Eritreans who happens to be born from Muslim
    Ertrean parents and love to portray themselves as Arabs. To call gebertis etnic grupp
    is crazy. Soon Protestants are going to tell us that they are ethnically Swedish.
    In a nation with Identity crisis even orthodox Tigrigna speaking Eritreans find
    a way to divide themselves. The true civilisation
    comes with being proud of your origin and embrace other groups but with
    Eritreans it is the other way around. We are, Arabs, Singaporeans and Italians
    and never Habesha even worse African.

    • Amanuel Hidrat

      Dear Rahwa,

      Religion and ethnicity are two different issues. Religion is not as a factor for group ethnicity. Check my answer to Tes all the way down in this page.

    • Kokhob Selam

      Dear rahwa,

      01.”makes no sense” for you but not for me. if that makes sense for me, can you allow me to enjoy my choice. here is the question and here is the golden rule. I think you should agree and respect to have what I love and don’t force me to think like you. or since I am not forcing your ethnic group to be under my ethnic group don’t force me as such. “to call gebertis etnic gruppis crazy.” really? why calling your identity is not crazy rahwa? and what freedom and equality will you expect in the world with the thinking you have?

      02.Did Jeberti people said we are Arabs? is an Arab ethnic group? is Arab only Muslim? why you think such way when comes to Jeberti and not in others? Did Jeberti people even move and join other jeberties in other countries?

      Thank God the majority in Eritrea is respectful and dignified.

    • anwar

      you are wrong because if all Tigrigna speaking Muslims in Eritrea are lumped as ethnic Tigrigna why should not all Tigrigna speaking Christians consider themselves as tegaru the same way as their fellow Tigrigna speakers in tigray, I do not think language is the only factor here. also it is their God given right to demand their right. again you can not dictate others wish for a covert religious hegemonic reason forever. as it will backfire to haunt you.

      • Saleh Johar

        Dear Anwar,
        Remember, the Jeberti of Tigray and Eritrea went through long years of oppression–they were uprooted and forced to convert, until the death of Yohannes. hey were displaced all over and their properties confiscated. On the other hand, the non-Jeberti Habesha have almost identical attitude towards the Jeberti. Save a few progressive Habesha, most are driven by prejudice and primordial hate of Jeberti and the elite are trying all they can to make us forget our name! In Eritrea we have a long standing proposal: forget this Tigrinya none-sense, it’s a language, and identify the people as Habesha. They insist of being called Tigrinya and they object to Jeberti maintain their identity.

        Worse, they argue if Jeberti is an ethnicity–Jeberti existed centuries because the ethnic sciences were developed, and one cannot make a nation be molded retroactively to fit some modern concept. The Jeberti have reached a decision: If your name is Anwar, you will not respond to anyone calling you by other names. If you want the attention of Jeberti, call them with their names. If shout, “Hey Tigrinya man!”no one will respond–they will think you are calling someone else 🙂

    • belay

      Dear Rahwa,
      I.Christian highlanders in Ethiopia asociate them selves with the Yemeni Arabs too.So, what is the big deal if the Jeberti asociate them selves with the Arabs as we do?
      I I. We were not ashamed to to say,
      Aslamay Adi’yeblun, Semay Amdi Yeblun. Why feel hurt then, if they want to asociate them selves with whom ever they want.
      III. By the way, how many of us know our family tree more than seven generation ?
      We are not sure about our selves, so, how can we be sure about others.
      IV.Scientist are telling us that human race originated from East Africa.Here we are being suspecious that, the Jeberties might be thinking they are Arabs.20 miles across the see??
      If we want them to be Arabs they can easily be, but, they are way smarter, peaceful than their Highland christian brothers as a whole.
      We can only win their decades long, broken heart by love and love ….
      Thank you.

    • Saleh Johar

      Dear Rahwa,
      Let me offer my feed back to help you to make sense of wahat doesn’t “make sent to [you]”
      1. “I only see Eritreans who happens to be born from Muslim Ertrean parents and love to portray themselves as Arabs.
      Vital information. Try to call them Eritrean Muslims—you don’t need to use 13 words when two can do. I “who happens to be born from Muslim Ertrean parents” and I am identified as a Muslim. It’s easier.

      2. “To call gebertis etnic group is crazy. Soon Protestants are going to tell us that they are ethnically Swedish.”

      Why is it crazy, I mean compared to others? Please explain

      3. In a nation with Identity crisis even orthodox Tigrigna speaking Eritreans find a way to divide themselves.”

      So you think Eritrean Orthodox suffer from identity crisis? Please tell me what are the charecteristics that they peculiarly suffer from compared to other Orthodox people? Then why are some unqualified people fond psyco-analysing Eriteeans?

      4. The true civilisation comes with being proud of your origin and embrace other groups but with Eritreans it is the other way around.
      I get it, Eritreans are uncivilized, and you, an Ethiopian are civilized. Good for you
      5. [Eritreans say] We are, Arabs, Singaporeans and Italians and never Habesha even worse African.

      Being civilized, I expect you to admit you were wrong here, publicly. I will disprove your statement: I am not an Arabs, a Russian or Nigerian or anything else. Your “never Habesha” insult should be corrected, with an apology, to “always Habesha.”

      BONUS: there are Arab Eritreans and no one can change that.

  • Kokhob Selam

    Dear Bayan Negash,

    That was very interesting topic. in fact for someone who want to have free nation and fought for years should understand what is the meaning of rejecting others identity . for me it is the same, Ethiopians force us to be called Ethiopians and PFDJ force Jeberti to be called by the name the party chooses . Unless we come to the day we respect people’s choice we will always live in conflicts- consuming our energy without reaching to the real freedom and real peace. And other ethnic groups should totally support Jeberi’s choice as it is just when you respect others that your dignity survives as ethnic group. and we have seen this right from our experience, the group who didn’t accept the ethnicity of Jeberti didn’t let others live in peace – it was just a mater of time.

    my stand :-
    I fully support the movement of Jeberti people as ethnic group like Saho, Tigre and all Ethnic groups. and I am ready and open minded to hear the request of other ethnic groups if there are other than those 10. I believe any one who forces to name others without their choice is anti peace and unity.

    • tes

      Dear Kokhob Selam,

      You wrote, “And other ethnic groups should totally support Jeberi’s choice as it is just when you respect others that your dignity survives as ethnic group.”

      Well, questions for you,

      1. Does any ethnic group has a power to decide or support other people’s choice or the law should respect other people’s choice?

      2. Can we set a rule of law based on ethnic or on human rights/people’s rights?

      3. Who is who to support the other?

      4. Is a country composed of people r ethnic groups?

      5. Suppose I a French man who lived in Eritrea and got an Eritrean citizen. I have respected my French identity lived as such and transferred my identity to my family who lived in Eritrea as Eritreans. Not as Bilen, Tigrigna, Saho, Tigre, Afar, etc but just as French family in Eritrea. And suppose this trend continued for the next 1000 years. Just suppose. After 1000 years, my family tree has extended into 10,000 people who respect their culture. After 1000 years are they Eritreans with a French identity or they have to be part of one ethnic group?

      6. Just imagine Kokhob Selam who is living now some where on this earth and wants to transfer his habesha identity to his family. He wants his family to respect who they are while living where they are. The rule of the mand has respected KS’s identity and is expected to extend to his family for generations and generations to come. Who is then to allow KS’s choice? The rule of the land or individual ethnic groups? Does KS’s family, which later will be called Habesha have any power to block other people’s choice saying if they want our family well and good if not they have too?

      Expecting your sincerely reply

      tes

      • Amanuel Hidrat

        Hi tes,

        An ethnic group is a significant group of people who lives in a specific prescribed territory, identified with one common language, culture, economic and other common way of life. Therefore, the Eritrean social groups (ethnics) are the identities that form our common identity – the Eritrean identity. If you are a french origin and came to Eritrea and got an Eritrean identity. You can only have the common identity. because it doesn’t fit to the definition of Ethnic.

        regards,

        • tes

          Dear Amanuel Hidrat,

          Thank you brother for your interjection. Let me be clear here, I have no qualms with the definition of ethnicity. It is of an anthropological and social definition and your definition is right from today’s point of view.

          Let me challenge you though

          In Eritrea, 400-500 years back or even less, there was no ethnic group called Blin. And just 100-150 years back, there was no Rashaida (Elit – you name it what so ever it is), the same.

          These people migrated to Eritrea and settled there. They reserved their identity and when time came during classification based on ethnicity they are called as they are called now. No one forced them to allied with the existing people and to be called as such.

          On the same trend, I am a French now and after 1000 years my family tree still respected that. Our origin can be from France but we are still French. Can’t we be called “The French Ethnic group”?

          I am not referring the failed definition of ethnic groups of socialist countries(aka communism ideology). I am referring a human rights definition of rights of the people.

          tes

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Merhaba tes,
            Ethnics, which I like to call them “Social groups,” as part of human race, they migrate, evolve, and occupy space at a given epoch of human history. The Eritrean ethnics came to the current Eritrea at different period of their history and settled at specific area to populate, develope their own culture, language and forge an identity with clear distinction one from the other. Our social groups were there in current “Eritrea nation” before the partition of Africa continent and the modern African countries. Hence the building blocks of Eritrean society are our social groups. So we recognize them as the identities that make the “Eritrean identity.”

            Second when we advocate for equality and liberty, it is always as an individual and as group. Social groups are not created by socialist countries. Social groups exist as the rainbow of human race, before any kind of ideology that exist today.

            Third, since human race evolve and migrate with change of circumstances, the composition of social groups in a specific territory will change (l increase or decrease) with the change of politics and economics (integration, coming-together-federalism, or new political phenomenon). Therefore if your French identity and Eritrean citizenship evolve in generations in a specific area with distinction of culture, language and way of life, then that group identity will naturally recognized as one social group, and of course assuming all the other factors remain constant.

          • tes

            Dear Amanuel Hidrat,

            Very good. I love the way you elaborated it: a very dynamic approach

            Then, suppose now, just now and I am the only one, I wanted to be identified as French man. And yet I respect the rule of the land. Is there any problem with the social composition of the Eritrean people?

            I am asking this because I can understand from your explanation that social groups* is dynamique.

            Can we define (as per accepted and existing norms) social groups or respect social groupings thinking that it is evolutionary?

            tes

            *I also agree the way you call it.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dear Tes,

            As an individual of French origin but with Eritrean citizenship, your right is respected as “individual right” like all individual Eritreans who are abide by the law of the country. There should no be problem with the social composition of Eritrea, and if there is a problem we have to fight to correct it.. But I don’t think that will be a problem at all.

            The phrase “social group” is a sociopolitical terminology or phraseology. I live and be guided with terms and concept however they evolve. In the existing norms of Eritrea, ethnic become derisive word. And hence it becomes my choice of sociological terminology to use in any political argument I make related to the rights of our social groups.

            Regards,
            Amanuel Hidrat

          • tes

            Dear Amanuel Hidrat,

            Very good. Now I am an individual and thanks you respected my rights to be who I am. Suppose now after 1000 years, I am not alone but with thousands of families who will be identified as I am today. They respected the way I live today. Will they be still respected then? If so, then Eritrean social composition will add one social group called “French People”, right?

            Still we are using people’s rights dictionary not else for what’s ever it is. To be who I am is my right and so is my family right and yet I respect the law of the land*.

            Are we OK so far.

            The question still that exists is what is the rule of the land?

            Let me ask you this simple question. I know you don’t endorse the PFDJ Constitution of 1997. Do you have any idea on how the Constitution sees Social Groupings? Is there any article that narrates Eritrea is composed of only and only 9 ethnic groups? In short, does it see Eritrea as a sum total of its people or its Ethnic groups?

            tes

          • Kokhob Selam

            Dear tes,
            really you must understand me I will not be better than Amanuel to answer your questions. in fact I was and I am a student of the same type of teachers and I am convinced what they teach me but I am not really on their level. you will learn better from him than from me as he and his likes own wisdom and they know how to taking care of people. you and me should only agree for now that people are important and their choice should be respected. people and people are only the nation and their stand in respecting identities is the only proof of contamination as nation. plus please don’t forget to read history of Jeberti as your questions will be answered all.

          • tes

            Dear Kokhob Selam,

            My question to you was very specific and based on what you said. If you are willing please elaborate what you said.

            Does any other ethnic* group has a power to decide the fate of other ethnic group? This question is based on what you said not what the general norms say.

            tes

          • Kokhob Selam

            Dear tes,

            No forgive me, I have chosen to learn with you and I think questions are answered nicely by Amanel.

          • tes

            Dear Kokhob Selam,

            If you were asking questions before and you have learned, at least I expected to give answers from what you learned. If Amanue Hidrat was your teacher and now you can be my teacher. If not, then to be a student for life is not good simply because others are also in need of your service. You were served and now you are expected to serve.

            Saying that, please explain to me what I am asking.

            tes

          • Kokhob Selam

            Dear tes,
            since the master is here and alive -long life to him by the way, and can explain better than I do why not? again, I honestly said to you, I will not be better than him. really what ever I want to say, he has said it. but I am sure I will not put it the way he put it. first the language and 2nd putting things in order good to understand them (arranged on the way they should). and the most important point is his wisdom, I mean he didn’t see things from one corner and he was not emotional.

            I saw your questions after he start answering to you. if I read before him I could have tried by the way. and I was a bit frustrated and nervous. my answer could have disturbed you. so we will be in cycle although I don’t mean it. I know you are younger than me. I have learned you have been around those who complicated the case of Eritrean ethnic groups case. you are honest and energetic but you should not deny PFDJ’s political teaching has it’s role in your thinking still. it is the same with me. When I join ELF there were people among elders from ELF it self who confuse us this topic and I had difficulties understanding people like Amanuel. so please understand me.

            so why you want the same copy again since Amuni has answered to you !

          • tes

            Dear Kokhob Selam,

            Haha, you are cheating yourself more than that you are not honest*. I asked you to respond sincerely because I know you are not honest in this regard. And finally you exposed yourself by telling me my trace. Be honest, do you support ethnic centered politics?

            If you notice, my reference is a democratic book. I know both books though. As for you, no matter how you preach for democracy, I know how you define ethnicity (not different than that of TPLF right?)

            Be honest to yourself. I know what you fight for but now I am very honest with you and very straight. Just asking to clarify what you said.

            Still my question is pending.

            tes

            *When you say many sideline issues and praise, I know you are not honest with them.

          • Kokhob Selam

            Dear tes,
            This is funny again ,
            what about leaving the issue today and let others write. you know other teachers are not around Mahmuday, Hailat and others. it is boring to have two men only talking here. I know saay7 want you and me talk a lot before he comes with very fresh idea. don’t allow him to kill us.

          • tes

            Dear Kokhob Selam,

            Yes it is funny indeed. I did it funny because yours was funny too.

            Cheers

            tes

          • Kokhob Selam

            Dear tes,
            but some time make it a bit lighter. you know when I praise I mean it.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dear tes,

            If you read in my previous answer, the movement of human race is constant, and the evolvement of nations always change, they can split like soviet union, or integrate into confederations and federations, unions like the EU trajectory. hence the compositions of social group with the new entity will change. Hence if your French race is populated and shaped in to group identity in Eritrea why not (keep the other factors remain constant as “K”). You right and your race should be respected.

            I assume we are debating when we have the normal rule of law founded on democratic constitutional law.

            The 1997 constitution does not recognize the rights of our social groups, They will not have fair sharing in governing our nation in the nature of the institutional structure they envisioned in the constitution. That is why our minorities (social group) felt of being marginalized. Eritrea is made up of sum total of individual Eritreans and a sum total of our social groups. Remember group rights and individual right is two aspect of social virtue and are interdependent to each other. You can’t respect one and deny the other. Denying one of them is denying both. The individual must enjoy his/her right as individual as well as a group. That is the sociopolitical rule, if a society to leave in peace.

            regards,

          • tes

            Dear Amanuel Hidrat,

            Thanks for your answers. In fact I have a very logical and narrative questions to continue up on. but for the time being I will wait Bayan Nagash’s response.

            Thanks

            tes

  • Bayan Nagash

    Greetings AT,

    I humbly ask the AT to leave this note at the top of the comment section. I have misspelled Dr. Mustafa Lyesdie’s first name. It should read Mustafa, not Mustapha as I have inadvertently done. My apologies to the good doctor.

    • tes

      Dear Bayan Nagash,

      Thank you for this piece. It is very important as a step to discuss the issue of Jeberti at academia level, both from humanitarian point of view and rights of people’s point of view.

      Saying that, let me ask you these five questions.

      1. You are living in a democratic country (USA). Did any, be it at individual, governmental or constitutional level, intervened on your identity? Did any of these mentioned blocked you to be who you want to be? Have you encountered by any chance someone who told you, “you are an american not a jeberti”?

      2. Do you believe that Eritrean social grievances can be divided into identity isssue and be solved in due time?

      3. Do you think that if those in the justice camp will again fall into games of identity issue and deal with trumps
      over human rights issue?

      4. Do you believe that once human rights is attained it can solve any individual/groups interests or choices?

      5. Is Identity a choice or a dictation?

      I am asking all these questions from a democratic rights point of view.

      tes