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Isaias Arrives In Cairo To An Arab League Condemnation

In a press release issued on Sept. 7, 2014, the League of Arab States meeting, held at the level of Arab foreign ministers condemned Eritrea for “the kidnapping of a Djiboutian soldier from the demilitarized zone” on the border between Eritrea and Djibouti.

The Arab League “demanded the State of Eritrea to release [the soldier] immediately and hand him over to the State of Qatar since it is the mediator in the dispute between the two countries.”

On July 25, 2014 the Eritrean forces had arrested the Djiboutian soldier who was accompanying Qatari officers who are part of the force monitoring the demilitarized zone.

Neither Sudan nor Qatar, the only two countries in the region that has favorable relations with the Eritrean president abstained or voted against the Arab League condemnation which was adopted by consensus.

Gedab News learned that Djibouti has prepared a draft resolution to end the Qatari mediation and escalate its issue with Eritrea to the UN; the draft will be submitted to the upcoming Arab League summit for adoption.

The condemnation of the Arab League whose headquarters is in Egypt is significance because its issuing coincided with the arrival of Isaias Afwerki in Cairo for a two day visit.

The visit to Egypt comes at the request of the Eritrean president; it is his second visit to Cairo since June 2014 when he attended the inauguration of General alSisi’s as the new president of Egypt.

Isaias Afwerki had established relations with the Mursi who stayed in power for thirteen months before he was deposed by the military in July 2013. Several visits by Eritrean officials were made at the height of the diplomatic squabble between Ethiopia and Egypt over the “Great Ethiopian Renaissance Dam [GERD]”.

The diplomatic wrangling didn’t hamper the construction of GERD and the differences between Ethiopia and Egypt seems to have subsided as the two countries seem to have ironed out major differences and are continually discussing minor details.

On September 4, 2014, Egypt’s Foreign Minister, Sameh Shukri, visited Addis Ababa and held talks with his Ethiopian counterpart Dr. Tedros Adhanom.

The two ministers agreed to form “a join Ministerial Commission to nurture historic ties and launch continued growth of bilateral cooperation in selected areas of common interest.”

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  • Hope

    Oh my man,you remember all these crap by the Weyanes—oops-the Ethiopian Gov, rather…I thought you were too young 15yrs ago.
    Yes indeed…..we need the strongest and the BEST Army and Air Force in the Region by hook or crook for any evntuality…unfortunately

  • Amanuel Hidrat

    Thank you. I get it.

  • Amanuel Hidrat

    Dear House of Stark,

    Ambivalence is not syndrome. I think I have given enough explanation in my article. If not you could google and search if there is anything that tells you ambivalence is a syndrome. I have done my part the rest is do a research your own. Thank you.

  • Amanuel Hidrat

    Selam Asmerom,

    I have no clue in reference what you are talking. Did you see imposition from me? or did I say the Ethiopians have no place here? or did you want to pass you warning to the forum by address it to me? I have no clue your point of departure my friend.

  • Hope

    huh,your are jealous now and trying to target one of the major Eritrean Elite Engines—-get lost.
    Try to debate and challenge responsibly, reasonably and rationally–on what SAAY has said and will say.But get ready for though for a punch and bee stings.
    This is a professional website and professional forum of the highest level and that is why you are sneaking in here.
    Use the opportunity to learn,teach,and to debate rationally….and stay away from name calling and attacking persona.
    Get rid off that virulent pathogen of inferiority complex ,jealousy and “hasadnet”.
    Tesfanews kicked you outr i guess and you came here to mess around ya hassad wahid.Go to tigraionline or aigafrom and spill your virulent poisons there.

  • Amanuel Hidrat

    Dear Guest,

    This are the words of Hayat :”those who prefer to use real names want to sell their names associated with the contents”. Do you believe on that? isn’t it an insult? What is the general message in her argument under the subtitle “Pen names/real names?” If i miss it, could you tell me please? What is the general message in the statement I quoted her?

    Amanuel Hidrat

    • guest

      Amanuel Hawey,
      It is not an insult.
      Sometimes, while reading in english if we think in Tigrigna we might construe the message.
      Lately T Kifle is trying to sell you some Ideas and you are not buying it. .. right

      • Amanuel Hidrat

        Merhaba Guest,

        I can only see you defending “Hayat” to the undefendable statement. That is your prerogative. But let Hayat defend her statement. Regarding T. Kifle’s selling ideas. I haven’t seen except defending his position. Nada, Nil. But let us assume you are correct, and did you for any product he want to sell will have buyers in the market of ideas? I don’t think so, because it depend on its quality or merits of the argument. Just give me a new idea that T. Kifle tried to share with the forum except the grudges of the past and dig the pains endured by the Ethiopians as if there weren’t pain on our side that caused by the Ethiopians. If T. Kifle is going to be one of the interlocutors for peace assigned by the Ethiopian side with their counterpart from our side, to bring peace between the two people, it won’t happen. I surely could assert you that. But…But…But, the ruling party has many astute diplomats that could foresee the prospect of peace and its dividend.

      • Hayat Adem

        I approve the above message. Thanks guest, and be my guest.
        Hayat

  • Solomon T.

    Selam Haile,

    I will be short on time for a few days and will be unable to respond to the full content of your post right now but it seems you are missing the fact that Eritrea is in crises not just because Isayas is in the helm but rather because his actions have forced Eritrea severe its relations with Ethiopia. Eritrea was doing fine when it had good relations with Ethiopia (at least economically) even with Isayas at the helm. In my opinion the root cause of Eritrea’s current misery is Isayas’ insane obsession with humiliating and disintegrating Ethiopia. As a major victim of the Isayas’ illness, therefore, I don’t think it is unfair of Ethiopia to demand the next leader of Eritrea will not be sick with the same obsession and such a guarantee will be a major part of the negotiations for normalization (if you don’t trust me watch the interviews the late PMMZ gave on issues related to Eritrea). Not that Ethiopia cannot defend itself but even small wars are destructive and we don’t want to see any lunatic miscalculating again in our northern border. And if someone is unwilling to acknowledge that the past aggression was wrong, it is not a good sign. As I said before, there is little Ethiopia can gain from normalizing its relationship with a hostile Eritrea but I don’t think Eritrea can make much progress as a nation while maintaining its hostility with Ethiopia. So ‘what is in it for Eritrea?’ a. will be able to redirect all the human and material recourses it is spending on defense to national development b. will be able to take advantage of the huge market Ethiopia provides c. can sell port services to Ethiopia and generate billions of dollars in revenue etc…
    Solomon

    Solomon

    • Serray

      Selamat Haile TG and Solomon,

      Solomon, I can’t add to what Haile has said how we need to proceed resolving the lingering issues between our countries. You can’t pick and choose on EEBC and EECC; they are the final authorities to both the border and the cause of the war. Just because we are down, your government can’t rewrite history. Read the EECC, both regimes are fount guilty of war crimes in the war theater; ethiopia was not just guilty of looting and dumping tens of thousands of innocent eritreans on a war zone, it was found guilty of destruction of property, looting and other crimes including failure to prevent rape – just like eritrea. I can bring you the list of ALL war crimes both regimes were found guilty. You guys need to stop the whitewashing.

      You wrote, “… the root cause of Eritrea’s current misery is Isayas’ insane obsession with humiliating and disintegrating Ethiopia”. False and very narcissistic; the root cause of eritrea’s problem is isaias and his insane obsession with POWER. Unlike many eritreans I believe badme is means to an end and not an attempt to correct a wrong; be it border or economic. From the distorted and ethiopia centric view you present the war, isaias can solve your problem if he can come “clean” and acknowledge he ignited the war, hand you your opposition, walkaway from badme and swore to say hi; but where does that leave us? Badme is a symptom, not the disease. Pipe down the narcism, the belief that eritrea can’t survive without ethiopia is a no go. I think eritrea can prosper without ethiopia…and the monkey called shaebia regime on its back. If you take anything from this discussion, I hope you take that. To believe that eritrea needs ethiopia to prosper is as sick as the pfdjs obsession with ethiopia. Peace helps both.

      The reason I say we have to own badme and admit without any equivocation that isaias ignited it is because I strongly believe that badme is principally driven by power; not economics or border. I hope there is a way to convince your rulers about that, but I don’t hold my breath; I am still struggling to convince our “elites” that isaias ignited badme so that he can rule eritrea without constitution and the rule of law and few are convinced even though he has been doing just that for a decade and half. You and our “elites” are mirror images of each other for completely misunderstand the genesis of badme.

      • Kim Hanna

        Selam Serray,
        .
        ” ….To believe that Eritrea needs Ethiopia to prosper is as sick as the pfdjs obsession with Ethiopia. Peace helps both.”
        .
        O.k , this means that Ethiopia needs Eritrea and Eritrea needs Ethiopia to prosper. I think that is what you are saying. Then don’t get angry at yourself, please. Now, let me extend it a little and ask relatively speaking who will prosper more? That is all I am going to say.
        .
        K.H

        • Serray

          Selam Kim,

          No, I meant peace helps them both to prosper independent of each other. Ethiopia has proved it doesn’t need eritrea to prosper and eritrea can prove it doesn’t need ethiopia to prosper if it manages to get the monkeys off its shoulder. The sickness I am talking about is the belief some ethiopians seen to imply that Eritrea needs ethiopia to prosper. This is an ethiopian version of the pfdj’s “that ethiopia will disintegrate if we pushed it a little”.

          • Dear Mr. Serray,

            If Ethiopia does not need Eritrea and vise versa, then why all the talk about rapprochement, economic cooperation, trade and the rest? If Eritrea is not interested in the consumer market of 100m (probably her main export destination), how can she develop a sustainable robust economy by ignoring an economy about 20 times her own at her border? For example, can the US, the biggest economy in the world, say that it does not need Canada or Mexico?

            If the opposition thinks that the magic wand is removing the monkeys in Asmara, and everything would just be fine, is there no danger of replacing one monkey with
            another, which would have the same policy towards Ethiopia, thus obstructing peace?

            Ethiopia’s development has multiple factors; like huge cheap working force, ample raw material, fertile land, world economic and political situation that affected the
            economy in a positive manner etc. Excuse me if I am wrong, is it too fetched to say that one might be tempted to conclude that the phenomenon of “self reliance”
            and “self-isolation”, which are the main causes of Eritrea’s predicament, are going to continue after the monkeys are gone? Whenever we Ethiopians say that Eritrea needs Ethiopia, it is always with the notion that Ethiopia also needs Eritrea.

          • haileTG

            Selam Horizon,

            Actually I am pretty sure that there is all round misunderstanding here (not just you). Ethiopia represents significant opportunity for Eritrea and there are far reaching benefits for Ethiopia from a stable Eritrea that is at peace with itself and its region. The emphasis on this thread was narrowly missed but on the word “NEED”. In this case we are saying that Eritrea’s existence is not dependent on this perceived “need”. Ethiopia’s existence is not dependent on that “need” either. Eritrea can survive and chart a course of development that may not directly benefit from Ethiopia (much to the dislike of us who value the maintenance of historic ties). When unheard of and arbitrary demands of “Eritrean elites self reflecting”, ‘Eritreans change their attitude”, “Eritreans admit to however we wish to describe the conflict, forget treaties and rulings and sign to our demands”….types of ORDERS are issued and failing that “closing off of borders” and “keeping at arms length” are waved as some sort of stick, we are saying that Eritrea’s existence isn’t dependent on Ethiopia, i.e. we don’t “need” Ethiopia to survive and thrive. This is not to say Ethiopia isn’t endowed with qualities that would be beneficial to Eritrean development, it is just we are taken aback and lost for words at that frame of mind.

            Regards

        • Amanuel Hidrat

          Selam Kim,

          If you don’t mind, let me give you a different version of answer from that of Serray. It depend on the nature of the government and how it uses the dividend of peace and economic cooperation of the two countries.

          AH

        • Saleh Johar

          C’mon Kim, you started good now you are spoiling it 🙂

          Who benefits more in a marriage? If the spouses are good, loyal, loving and kind, they both do. However, who benefits from the relations between Ethiopia and Eritrea is an abstract question that can only be answered with speculations, a much politicized speculation that we can do without for now. At this moment, we can’t say (and we do not need to say if the goal is to get closer). However, in the future, this can be determined by the balance of trade and other economic factors. Even then there remains the indirect benefits that are difficult to quantify in terms of currency. For now, I think we should simply say we both benefit from the peace that we are going to gain. I hope you agree, if not? AytwElon gdi 🙂

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam Saleh Johar,
            .
            I know, I know I was a little miffed at Serray. It seems he was , “you guys” ing us all day today.
            I wanted to get his blood pressure up too.
            The question I posed, to do the trick, who will prosper more was so sophomoric I was holding my head with my hand, fifteen minutes later. It was my blood pressure that was up. I should have just asked 01001010001011001000101.
            .
            Yes ” we both benefit from the peace that we are going to gain.”.
            My rule#19 don’t write when you are miffed.
            .
            K.H

        • Hope

          Mr Kim Hana,
          both will prosper more–but if you want more specifics,let time and the Economists judge it but let us start it though then “Enehe meda,enhe feres” will be the case.

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam Hope,
            .
            Darn, I hate it when you are right and I am wrong.
            .
            K.H

      • Solomon T.

        Serray,

        I never said Eritrea needs Ethiopia to prosper. What I said is “…I don’t think Eritrea can make much progress as a nation while maintaining its hostility with Ethiopia” (‘hostility’ being the key word). How does that translate to ‘Eritrea needs Ethiopia to prosper’?
        Your argument that Isayas started the war so as not to implement the constitution and stay in power indefinitely is one of the least persuasive I have seen you making. I’ll try to get back to this and the other points you and haile raised when I have more time to spare.
        Solomon

    • Hope

      Mr, Solomon,
      Still stuck into the “-Aggressor vs the Aggressed Arguemnent”.
      –It is a closed deal legally.
      Time to move on but if you insist for an ” apology”—,well Eritreans deserve more”APOLOGY” and “More Compensation” than any one in the world by all of the major Powers–the USA,Britain,Russia and even more from Ethiopia–if you have to consider the more than 1 million human damages and more than probably a trillion USD worth material damages incurred upon Eritrea and Eritreans,as your own PMMZ(R.I.P) admitted it.

    • Hope

      Dera Mr. Solomon T.
      Addendum:
      I agree with what you prescribed for us:
      a). will be able to redirect all the human and material recourses it is spending on defense to national development
      b). will be able to take advantage of the huge market Ethiopia provides
      c). can sell port services to Ethiopia and generate billions of dollars in revenue etc…
      But I think it is reasonable as well to change the word Eritrea to Ethiopia except in b) but relatively speaking,Ethiopia also could get some benefir from using the Ports and save at least 300 million USD annually due to the convenience and Logistics related issues besides some discount compared to Djbouti.
      But,with all due respect,Sir,please get rid off the arrogant mentality of saying that “Eritrea cannot survive as a viable nation by its own” –Courtesy of Janhoy,Bereket Simon and solomon T.
      But if you insist though withat arrogant attitude and gurra,just stay away from us and leave us alone….
      If we manage to remove the Sanction and you leave us alone, ,ohh boy,we have plenty of opportunities and the sky will be the limit—and no worries about PIA as he be gone oen way or another for good.
      Think the following statistics/figures per the Economist Inetelligence Services Report that Eritrea is endowed with:
      1)Massive Petrolium and Gas Potential only in N Massawa–said to be more than that of Saudi Arabia and Qatar–in their own words–not mine
      2)more than $500 Billion USD worth of Potash in Culluli and Bada with more than 200 yrs of life
      3)more than $1 Billion USD per year worth of Tourism,Fishing,Salt Industry
      4)More than $10-15 billion worth of Precious Metal Mining in the next 10 yrs
      5) More than $3 Billion USD per yr in come from Port Services—if Aseb Port is to be utilized as a Free Zone–considering it to be the path for the 45% shipping lanes in the World–this is without considering the presumed income form Ethiopia if she has to use the Eritrean Ports
      6)Consider the unbelievable Potential of using the Red Sea Dam for cheap and clean Energy.
      7)Consider the huge Eritrean Human Resources potential from all over the world with all kinds of Experience and Expertise…
      Do you need more doses?
      You missed one big thing though:
      The positive outcome of Peaceful Co-existence

      • Hope

        Pls read : Dera as ” Dear”

  • Hayat Adem

    Dearests Serray, and Rodab, and…,
    1) I’ll let you guys in to my little mind. It has been nearly a quarter of a century since independence. In this very short time, Eritrea had been in conflict with Yemen, Sudan, Djibouti (twice) and Ethiopia. Of all the conflicts, none of the rest, or not even all the rest combined, were as much damaging as that of with Ethiopia. And that is not only to be attributed to the magnitude of the war. Let’s divide the period as follows: 1991-1997, 1998-2000, and 2001-onwards, for clearer view. The relatively good time we had was only during the first period we were very friendly and cooperative with the Ethiopians. Even if we were at different levels of quarreling and conflicts with the rest of our neighbors, we never were feeling the pain of those quarrels as much. I understand that the scale of the conflict with Ethiopia was huge and
    escalated to an all-out war for a couple of years. Since 2001, we are not at war as such but the blockade itself is as painful and it plays a darkening effect of our future. What is a future for a new nation with its youth deserting it every single day and keeps itself closed and isolated. It is weird: Eritrea shoots at the out-going (fleeing) citizens, and Eritrea doesn’t shoot at the incoming citizens. And yet, the out-going are 100ks and the incoming nearly stand at nil. How do you explain that? We can argue on this, but it is my position that no other single nation impacts Eritrea’s fate as much as
    Ethiopia. Our attitude must be lubricated in agreement to that reality.
    2) Isaias will go soon either by bullet or biology. But we don’t want the problem to continue if we want Eritrea worthy of
    independent nation. The key solution is to have a normalized and cooperative relationship with our sisters and brothers in Ethiopia. Whoever is coming to power post PFDJ should focus on that big ball where Eritrea’s gains and good future depend on. People get easily tempted to invoke the animosities and conflicts that should never have happened- or once happened, that should be totally left to the past. I understand the boiling of emotions along the road but we are not here to massage emotions in short tradeoff for lasting solutions. My commitment is to contribute to building to promote all the positive spaces that help us rehabilitate the trust and confidence we lost between these two closest peoples on earth. I do it very consciously.
    3) Amanuel of Assena asked the late PMMZ this question: “Many Eritreans are heard expressing their anger at the that the Ethiopian government did a lot of bad things on Eritreans and it has to apologize yet. How fair is for Eritreans to demand apology?” [Not verbatim el literatim] The answer Meles gave that was that (I’m paraphrasing): The Ethiopian government did some mistakes and he was never shy of admitting those and apologized on the spot on mistakes related to deportation and disfigurement of the cemetery. He said the Eritrean government did a lot of worse crimes and never admitted nor apologized. Eritreans would never be fair to demand apology from Ethiopians as Ethiopians were victims of acts of the Eritrean government. He said, what would be fair is for the Ethiopian people to check on how their government behaved and ask for corrections. Eritreans should try to do the same.
    4) That approach can be very helpful to understand each other better. I’ve seen how it impacts the other side very positively. When Fanti Ghana gave testimony some months back in support of Eritreans, many of us, Eritreans felt good and we all witnessed Awatistas, including the editors of this website get gravitated a step closer towards the needed commonness. Thanks to brilliant FG, that piece’s impact was tremendous. It felt as if a new script of relationship of the two good people was being drafted. Positive testimonies of the other side need to be based on truth and that their impact is amazing in soothing even aged grievances. I told you already that the purpose of my presence here is to bridge and rebuild relations not portray how bad the other is. Badmouthing the other has never helped build a relationship or even defend yourself. It is just destructive and a posture of spoiling for a fight. The flagging of defending Eritrea is bullshiting. Isaias invoked that for years and in reality I can’t think of any other single man who has made it severely vulnerable and exposed. The mekhete type bravado would never have a place in me. I go for the possible.
    5) Serray, now allow me to take you to a direct quote,
    “[Ethiopia’s health care system is a mess with one of the highest cases of HIV; its chronic drought and famine is world-renowned; its peace and security is dependent on one elite ethnic group not being too impatient to wait their turn “to grab the state machinery in Addis Ababa” And this is the nation that is inviting Eritrea to join it.”
    Does it sound Nitricc? Nope. This is Sal of a decade ago, and I’m worried a lot when I see signals of him showing he is not out of the mud yet. I don’t see our identity demanding us to defend it from anyone. Identity is from within. The outside world has only the perception of it. And every misperception cannot be an attack. If there is any misperception that deserves explanation, you should do the explaining. Why would you be outraged by any perceived misconception? Identity is not to be mistaken for credit-rating, for God’s sake. It is what you are and it is too inaccessible to be attacked from outside. It is in you. The more internally rooted it is, the safer you feel from any external threats. The more superficial it is, the more threatened and shaky you are to external events. Sal is trying to distance Eritreans from Ethiopians for the sake of it.
    And I hate to see Sal soiling himself to dig muddy adjectives hoping to tag against anyone who misspeak to him, or as in my case, against someone who doesn’t misspeak enough to T. Kifle. That really shows the very character. “A man’s character may be learned from the adjectives which he habitually uses in conversation”- I love you Twain.
    Hayat

    • Amanuel Hidrat

      Dear Hayatom,

      I do not think you miss why the negative reaction from Eritreans is coming to you. As I understood it, it is not on your wishes on what these two people should be, or precisely your wish for peace and cooperation between Eritrean and Ethiopia. It is from your understanding or your perception that the problem is coming from the Eritreans only (regarding our debate) towards the issue that is importantly matters to you. Let me say it bluntly that you don’t have a balanced approach. Except Horizon and Fanti Ghana, I haven’t seen who talks positively on the issue that matters to you. I think Mahmuday eloquently addressed it to Horizon about the disparity on the desire of the issue between Eritreans and Ethiopians on the issue of peace and cooperation. I saw more on our side than from our brothers the other side (I am talking specifically on those who participate debating in this forum).

      What I see from you, like YG and T. Kifle you want to throw all the guilty-problem to the Eritreans and never criticized anything to the other side. What makes you different than them is your desire for “peace and cooperation” between the two people. I am sorry you are attempting to travel on two routes at the same time which is impossible (a) Guilty finding mission – like YG and T.Kifle (b) looking for peace and cooperation (like Horizon and some others from our side). Continuing through that approach you can’t be an arbitrator for peace and cooperation. In order your vision “peace and cooperation” to be materialized your stand should be, let us relegate the past to historians and do what the present and the future demands us to promote peace, stability, and cooperation for both nations and the region. But if you also want to know history (which is impossible in this format) like what YG and T.Kifle are demanding there will be no progress to your vision. I just wanted you to heed the advice of Horizon the only rationale, sensible, wise, and who can foresee the right approach towards peace and cooperation from our friends on the other side. So the choice is yours. Either to leave the past for historians or dig in to the past like YG and T. Kifle that will lead us not to see light at the end of the tunnel. I know ambivalence is in every individuals mind, the difference is the bright mind resolve quickly to move forward.

      Amanuel Hidrat

      • T. Kifle

        Dear Amanuel,

        I have learned lately that you are a kind of guy often blows with the wind when you denied a clear position you initially defended as in YG’s latest article and switched sides after gauging the trend in this forum. As much as you talk of “peace” , “cooperation” and “forward-looking”. these virtues remain a pipe-dream if not based on reality on the ground and rightful admission of mistakes whenever and wherever are committed or whoever have committed them. My interest is not finding faults as such but I know for sure that honest reflection on what transpired in those fateful years is the basis of our future relationships. We cannot simply whitewash the past risk another round of war and mayhem. Activism cannot solve the current problem we have. Anyone can preach “peace” from their comforts, appear “magnanimous” and garner some shots here and there from people for the most part who themselves are far from these moral absolutes, but ask someone from Zalambessa who lost all their belongings and/or their loved ones for no other reason than the brutal invasion befallen them unsuspecting. It’s not as simple as you wanted have us believe. The problem is deep in our bones and if for nothing else, we should make sure that we are not going to be stabbed on the back again.

        • Stabbed in the back? Are you kidding me? You are well known for your lack of loyalty and self-worth and you have the nerve to use the phrase “stabbed on the back” ?
          It is true as they say that when a dog bites a man, no story but when a man bites a dog; you amazing story. When you ask someone from Zalambessa who might lost a hat and a donkey; did you have the decency to ask an Eritrean person what happened to him when you and your likes raped all Eritreans not only their worth millions of doallars and hard earn properties but including the shirt on their back and deported them through war zone? Did you ask?
          The problem is not that having skirmish, disagreement even war is unusable and unheard of but your victim mentality coupled with your inferior complexity; I am starting to believe that it is impossible to have a peace with you people.
          So, don’t you worry about getting “ stabbed on the back” by the Eritreans. Just worry getting gutted from the front when the Amara and the Oromo comes after you to rip your heart out of the cages of your ribs. I can assure you the future generation will not bother with your toxic and poisonous mentality. We will have our work cut out for us in building our country and improving our people’s life standard. Not only we will not worry about you but we don’t even acknowledge your existence. The day you have urge to check the cat’s nose; then the “ flit” will be rady.

          • Araya

            nitric, did you listen to the new teddy Afro song. the TPLF soiling their pants. the bomb is ticking.

            ቴዲ አፍሮ በሆላንድ ባቀረበው ኮንሰርት ላይ በመድረክ ያቀነቀነው አዲስ ዘፈን.

            .ቀስተ ደመናው ላይ አንበሳው ከሌለ

            የኢትዮጵያ ባንዲራ ትርጉሙ የታለ፥

            ምድሪቱ አረንጋዴ ‘ላዩ ሰማያዊ

            ተባብሮ ከሰራ ያድጋል ኢትዮጵያዊ፥

            ሣባና ሰሎሞን እናትና አባቴ

            አትማልዷትም ወይ ለኢትዮጵያ እናቴ፥

            ምን ይላል ምኒሊክ ካሳ ቴዎድሮስ

            የአንድነቱ ጎጆ በዘር ሲታመስ፥

            ምን ይላል ምኒሊክ ካሳ ቴዎድሮስ

            ምን ይላል ዮሐንስ ተፈሪ ቴዎድሮስ

            የተዋለደ ሰው በዘር ሲታመስ ::

          • Araya interesting. I got be carful in here but look at this key top ten positions and look who is there. The Tigryans stupidity is that they think they can hold it forever. For now they keep naming new Tigryan generals every six months to cover it all.
            But for how long? Tick-tick tick tick tick =====) boommmmmmmmmmmm!
            1.Chief Off Staff. General Samora Yonus. Tigray

            2.Department of Training General Tadese Werede. Tigray

            3 department of Operation. General Gebreyesus Mebrahtu. Tigray

            4.Department of Military Intelligence. General
            YohhanesGebremeskel. Tigray

            5.Commander Of Air Force. General mola Hailemariam. Tigray

            6.Northern Commander. General Seare Werede. Tigray

            7.North Western Commander. General Yohhanes Gebremariam. Tigray

            8 . Special Army Commander. General Teklai. Tigray

            9.South Eastern Commander. General Seyoum Hagos. Tigray

            10.Central Army Commander. General Taddese Werede. Tigray

          • Kaddis

            Araya – I heard the song. The segment of society who believes Moa Anbessa flag is divine is gone. They had a political party. It died naturally. I wish people show an alternative method of treating ethnic issues in Ethiopia/ Africa than spread fear.

            Teddy is from the ‘all happened in the past is right’ group; although he has every right to pass his message.
            His last song Seba Dereja is to die for.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzZHA7Fb93A

        • Amanuel Hidrat

          Dear T.Kifle,

          Again you brought up the YG Issue. My position was clear and solid. If you recall the debate was on the “ambivalence and heroism of Degen.”. In fact the whole forum except myself and Serray were against that essay. I was actually specifically said YG had read correctly the “ambivalence and heroism” on Degen. I was only defending on that aspect. In my article I did the needed appraisal to the entire essay as you read it and you could read it again. Answering to the particular issue raised from the essay and making an appraisal to the entire work is two different thing. Even in my appraisal I also stated that YG had read correctly the “heroism and ambivalence” on Degen. What I disagree with him is to characterize “ambivalence” as “syndrome” which he called it “degen’s syndrome” and he further extended the Eritrean people are affected by that syndrome. My defending to YG was on the issue on Degen’s ambivalence and heroism.

          This is my last attempt to elaborate it to you. If you have the audacity like YG to characterize ambivalence as syndrome and by extension the Eritrean people has that condition, it will remain your own problem. But I am challenging you to state it yourself again now, as you were supporting his argument, that Degen has a syndrome and thus the Eritrean people also affected by that condition. Please say it boldly just for the record. Go and say it please.

          Second, while you were drum beating on the Ethiopian side for the bloody war, as it was also on the Eritrean side, I went to many meeting to voice against it and wrote articles against it. I was ostracized and alienated from my people for that position. Once the war started there is no rules. You can tell the ugliness of war and I have no doubt it was bad for both people. You see my friend except the late PM (rest in peace) who vote against the war the whole Ethiopian parliament did vote for the war while it could be solved peacefully. Now we can not complain on the result of the war b/c war is destruction in its essence and its outcome. I was angry to go for the war and I am angry for the result of the war. The reason why I am saying drum beating is you defended why Ethiopia go to the war. Am I right T.Kifle. You support for the war whatever the reason is and you can’t be angry for the result.

          • house of Stark

            Hi Mr Amanuel Hidrat.

            How can you question a persons integrity or intellect, while you knew his reference point is Franz Kafka and, the articles title “Dejen’s syndrome” is a metaphor.

            Here s the full Quote by Franz Kafka
            “I think we ought to read only the kind of books that wound or stab us. If the book we’re reading doesn’t wake us up with a blow to the head, what are we reading for? So that it will make us happy, as you write? Good Lord, we would be happy precisely if we had no books, and the kind of books that make us happy are the kind we could write ourselves if we had to. But we need books that affect us like a disaster, that grieve us deeply, like the death of someone we loved more than ourselves, like being banished into forests far from everyone, like a suicide. A book must be the axe for the frozen sea within us. That is my belief.”

            The irony is that you yourself use a metaphor for your title, while crucifying him. Could you please direct me to the paragraph where, Yg call the Eritrean people a pathologically diseased.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dear House of stark,

            If the title doesn’t give you enough explanation, I couldn’t help you to give more explanation than what my articles conveyed to my readers. But I will ask you this, what is “Degen’s syndrome? from your understanding. Could you define it? Could you explain it without escaping through the windows of metaphors? The writer(YG) didn’t claim that, or somehow didn’t indicate in his writing. He was trying to explain the Eritrean mind, that in itself you need to have the know how and the protocol to do it. A syndrome is a pathology. And if you have accepted his report, then unfortunately you are saying that you have a syndrome identified as “degen’s syndrome” to yourself. Take your peak either question to his diagnosis or accept his diagnosis. I questioned his diagnosis and proved it to be a flaw philosophically and medically.

          • Hope

            —Bingo Aman the Elder and the Teacher….No “reasonable bias” here as U said what should be said in an unequivocal terms and to the point.Who cares if the other party accepts it or agrees with it?.
            But you forgot to mention that the GoE was ready for peaceful resolution after it realized that it did make a mistake and it provided reasonable suggestions to resolve the situation peacefully despite that the same GoE(call it PIA or “DIA–for your convenience) was the victim of serious provocations until the last minute when it decided to act militarily,which could have been acceptable to the USA/Britain/France and even Ethiopia if they were to be provoked the way the GoE was provoked multiple times and a serious way upto invading the Sovereign Eritrean land and to the extent of incoporating a big chunk of the Eritrean Land to the “New Abay Tigray Map”.
            I urge to use the name of Eritrea in such kind of national Issues and U may discard the words like PIA or the GoE if that will make U feel comfortable..

      • Hayat Adem

        Dearest Emma,
        1) I agree with you that Horizon and Ghana are fantastic souls of peace
        2) You are also right that my utmost commitment areas are peace and cooperation.

        2) I found nothing disagreeable with Kifle in his writings except the latest minor excess in in targeted accusation on the two Saleh’s without a fitting evidence. In fact, he is a guy knowledgeable about struggles of both sides and he has Ethiopia’s interests at heart, and he advances them civilly.
        3) Two routes: guilt finding and peace. My primary focus is peace and cooperation. I’m not sure if you noticed me interested in guilt-mining. I’m not interested in the past (or i so wish to feel and act that way) more than it is necessary in making a minimum understanding that would help us move on.

        4) Give particular moments to work on myself to see if I’m not balanced. I’ll take it from you and see if there is anything to your claim. But member two points here: a) if there is unreasonable bias (is there such a thing like reasonable bias?) in me, it really can never be on the side you are accusing me of. But I can wait if you will be able to produce an example that shows my unbalance and I’ll respond to that. b) Balance is never been about sharedness of the crime committed or guilt. The perfect balance is the truth, and the best balance the one that is closer to the truth.
        Hayat

    • Serray

      Selam Hayat,

      To the extend that you are saying we should make peace central to our existence, I am with you. But it has to be a peace based on realistic expectations; a peace you can sell to BOTH eritreans and ethiopians. Remember, there will be extremes on both sides who would like to go for the maximum advantage, maximum hurt. T. kifle wrote in reply to your post, “Zalambessa who lost all their belongings and/or their loved ones for no other reason than the brutal invasion befallen them unsuspecting. It’s not as simple as you wanted have us believe. The problem is deep in our bones and if for nothing else, we should make sure that we are not going to be stabbed on the back again”. As an eritrean post-pfdj, you have to counter and balance that accusation. If he doesn’t feel responsible for the scars eritreans suffer from thirty years of ethiopian rulers genocidal policy (and he he shouldn’t), why does an eritrean who comes to power on the ashes of isaias be burdened with his sins? An eritrean who carries isaias’s guilt to the peace table serves no peace to either ethiopians or eritreans. The scars are too deep to ignore. Don’t get me wrong,though, the ethiopian government can be a partner in peace; we just have to make sure they don’t guilt trip us into tying both our hands behind our backs by pointing at their wounds from our deposed ruler while they ignore ours from their vanquished rulers.

      • Solomon T.

        Serray,

        Here is the difference. Every Eritrean elite that I know of was applauding (loud) when Isayas and
        his army were destroying Zalambessa and so many other villages in Ethiopia while there was a significant segment of the Ethiopian elite who were not only opposed to the atrocities committed by the Ethiopian regimes in Eritrea but also fought to end those atrocities. Never mind that those Ethiopian regimes were as brutal in the rest of Ethiopia as they were in Eritrea when they faced similar rebels.

        We are not asking the Eritrean elite to be ‘burdened by the sins’ Isayas committed but rather for giving him unreserved support while he was committing those sins and failing to repent ever since. This keeps us
        worried that whoever comes after Isayas might be tempted to try the same thing Isayas did when an opportunity arises. For example, there is no guarantee that someone like Sal Younis will not try to harm Ethiopia again (the same way Isayas did) because I see a lot of similarities between their attitudes towards Ethiopia the main difference being the former is not yet in a position of power. And trust me, they are not alone.

        When we observe Eritrean opinion makers (out of which a future leader will emerge) keeping silent or stubbornly defend what Isayas did to Ethiopia instead of condemning his actions we can’t help but continue to believe that they carry the same virus. So what we are asking for is for such an attitude to change in a visible way so that we can trust the future leaders of Eritrea that they will not take us back to the
        quagmire again. If this doesn’t happen I don’t see why Ethiopia should even think of normalization with Eritrea because we are doing fine with the status quo.

        Solomon

        • haileTG

          Hello Selomon,

          From the perspective of those of us who believe that genuine peace and reconciliation are the way forward:

          1 – What gives you the guarantee that the current status quo will continue indefinitely in the way Eritrea is governed?

          2 – Where are the Ethiopian elites that condemned the acts of Ethiopia during the 1998 – 2000 war?

          3 – If you think Eritreans “carry a virus” (extremely repulsive figure of speech), what is your proposed solution to eliminate such “virus’?

          4 – You obviously see no need of having to do anything with Eritreans unless your demands are met. Most likely (pretty much 100% likely) your posturing would be met with equally combative and dismissive posture from the other side. I personally believe that all Eritrea needs to assume its rightful place is to remove its current system of government. Beyond that it is more than capable of meeting its own needs. Given that IA can’t realistically be there forever, how do you see Ethiopia’s interests advanced by severing links permanently with Eritrea and the later charting a new path of alliances with other regional entities that would likely promote mutually respectful relationships?

          5 – Finally, what sorts of laws and policies within Ethio-Eritrea relationships would ensure (in clear practical terms) that the Eritreans would not infect you with the “virus” you believe they carry?

          Regards

          • Solomon T.

            Selam Haile,

            These are all good questions and thanks for asking.

            1. The only condition under which Ethiopia could be worse off than the status quo is if Eritrea descends into total and long-lasting chaos. I don’t see that as likely. I believe Eritreans are internally much more cohesive than Somalis or Libyans where clan loyalties and warlordism could easily render the societies ungovernable. I don’t see much evidence of such fragility in Eritrea. To the minimum Eritreans have a universal hatered for Ethiopia as a unifying factor. So even if the Isayas’ government collapses the currently fragmented Eritrean political entities and the elite will quickly re-group to restore order and the Eritrean masses will rally behind them. There could be a
            temporary confusion but I don’t see ‘Somalization’ of Eritrea as a realistic possibility. I rather see another lunatic like Isayas emerging as a leader as more likely scenario given how rampant those qualities appear to be among the Eritrean elite.

            2. It would have been wrong for the Ethiopian elite to condemn the Ethiopian government in
            its efforts to reverse the aggression. I see a disturbing pattern among you guys of trying to establish a moral equivalence between what Ethiopia did to reverse the aggression and what Eritrea did to
            start the entire war. Remember that Eritrea’s army not only invaded Badime and its environs but a vast amount of undisputed Ethiopian territory in adi Irob, Shiraro,Tsorona, Zalambessa, Bure, and other border districts within less than 10 days in May 1998 while there was literally no defense on our side except a few hundred local militia and police. No amount of previous skirmishes between the residents of the border areas over grazing land and so on (if it ever happened) can justify such a wide-scale and well-planned aggression from so many directions within such a short period
            of time. The truth of the matter is that Isayas has been preparing for the aggression well in advance and the persistent effort among the Eritrean elite to accuse Ethiopia of escalating the war for declaring self-defense to liberate its occupied land is troubling to say the least.

            It’s really mind boggling to see that you guys were expecting Ethiopia to negotiate while its land was occupied by a 6 years old country which is one twentieth of its size. And it’s the prevalence of that kind of mentality among the Eritrean elite that gives a pause whenever we think of normalization. Some innocent Eritreans may have been deported from Ethiopia among the tens of thousands of Isayas’ vocal supporters but unfortunate things happen when you are invaded and
            I don’t think Ethiopia’s actions were totally unjustified at the time. And by the way there were prominent Ethiopians (both within and outside the government like prof Mesfin) who were opposed to the deportation of Eritreans and the number of peaceful Eritreans who were allowed to stay in Ethiopia was much larger than those who were deported.

            3. If the Eritrean elite (btw I didn’t say Eritreans in general because I know the overwhelming majority of the Eritrean peasants a lot of whom are my blood relatives don’t carry such an attitude) want to maintain their attitude of arrogance, hatred, and entitlement towards Ethiopia I see much more harm in bringing them closer than keeping them at arm’s length. So I don’t see much of a problem in indefinitely keeping the borders closed while doing whatever we can to help those Eritreans who make it to our side of the border. If the situation forces the Eritrean elite to look
            into themselves and initiate some visible changes in how they view themselves and us that is well and good. If not we can wish them good luck and look elsewhere for closer relations and opportunities.

            4. For your surprise, our demands at this stage are minimal and I don’t think they should
            be daunting for any Eritrean who is genuinely opposed to Isayas and interested in reconciliation and peaceful coexistence with Ethiopia.

            a. Admit that it was a mistake for Eritrea’s army to overrun the local militia and cross Ethiopia’s
            borders at multiple locations in May 1998. Everything Ethiopia did in response was to restore its territorial integrity and it is dishonest and wrong for any Eritreans to try to establish a moral equivalence between Eritrea’s aggression and Ethiopia’s self-defense efforts.

            b. Be willing to resolve the border issue under the principle of give and take as part of the
            larger negotiations for normalization of relationships. The EEBC ruling can be taken as a starting
            point but the major mistakes made in the border ruling should be corrected through negotiations involving exchange of territories and consulting the local residents of the affected areas.

            5. No laws or treaties will guarantee a lasting peace between Ethiopia and Eritrea as will an honest self-reflection of Eritrean elite to better understand themselves, their neighbors, and their strategic interests.

            Solomon

          • haileTG

            hi solomon, disqus has eaten up my reply, let’s give it a little time;)

          • Hope

            Dear Mr Solomon(quite familiar fellow ,without going into the details):
            Addendum to your #2 Assertion as U missed it big time that:
            -That it was the Ethiopians(Weyanes to be specific), who uniltaerally invaded Adi Murug on a day light but it was the same PIA U R cursing and demonizing as an Aggressor,who advised the EDF not to react but to pull out and to stay away despite its request to act(the EDF’s request)
            -It was the Ethiopians(Weynaes),who tortured and harrassed the Innocent Eritreans in Badmie and other border town areas and villages but it was the same PIA who refused to escalate things and who chose to be quite.
            -It was the Ethiopians(Weyanes),who incorporated a huge chunk of Eritrean Land to the New Abay Tigray Republic but it was the same PIA,who U R still demonizing and accusing as an Aggressor,who sent his Team to Addis to resolve the issues peacefully and amicably —-and yet,it was the Ethiopians(Weyanes) who murdered cold-bloodedly the unarmed Eritrean Officers,who crossed the border to resolve the issues peacefully while the Team of PIA was still talking peace in Addis.
            -I will leave the rest to SAAY.

      • Hayat Adem

        Serray,
        there is nothing i disagree with the points you raised in your note above. however, what i sense with the ethiopians is this: they are not saying eritreans and eritrea should inherit isaias’ sins. what they are saying is the informed eritrean should acknowledge those sins by isaias for what they are. they are not asking anything more than that. but when they observe we, the informed are reluctant about it, they are sensing it as dangerous sign of repeat even after isaias is gone. look, serray, you and i already believe the war was brought by isaias. going from peace to war is a solid cross that can only happen after meticulous and cold-blooded planning. the chain of reaction once in a war have their own pull-push dynamics. but the starting action that triggered and transform it is a key defining moment. the ethiopians understandably and legitimately resent about it. military reactions are not as controlled as the first planned action. the japanese forces foolishly attacked peal harbor. the americans reacted in exponentially excessively on Hiroshima and nagasaki. there was nothing of that sort happened here but i want you to appreciate the way 1st planned attacks are responsible to ugly consequences that follow. on their part, they acknowledged some mistakes such as about the deportation. in fact, they did certain things to redress them. they are hosting our people, and allowing more a 1000 to a free scholarship at their higher institutions. when are we to appreciate all this and thank them. Sal, the other day mocked, “don’t demand thankfulness from us because the sudanese have been hosting our refugee for years and they never asked to be thanked”. the ethiopians are doing this after a devastating war and hostility in their way of redressing the damaged relations .we never went to war of 30 years with the sudanese; we never went to an all out war that consumed 70k lives only in 2 years with the sudanese. we never bombed their elementary school. the ethiopians are trying their best without a partner. and all they are asking is “please be nice” and no more bad mouthing. btw, we don’t badmouth the sudanese as much as we do to ethiopians. what does it take to be thankful to a favor done even if it is demanded from the doer so long as the favor is done and received? do we allow ourselves to be that mean to ethiopians?
        on the other hand, there were untold atrocities committed against eritreans like you said during the 30yrs war. ethiopians must acknowledge those atrocities. and i think some of them do. the current leadership was fully in support of ending the war and referendum. do you remember meles’ speech in asmara when he said our martyrs (eprdf’s and eplf’s) shared a death from a single shell fragment of enemies artillery? they came that close and they never let that commitment dropped off rain or shine. that is beauty of principledness. and if we, from ourside, have some shining examples of acts of sisterhood, people like Fanti Ghana will give honest and warm testimony for us. It is very inspiring and connecting when good stories of one side are told by the other. Let’s tell what we know of their side.
        Hayat
        Hayat

        • haileTG

          Dear Hayat,

          – It is good that you acknowledge the positive acts of Ethiopia in many of the the humanitarian situations faced by our people. I for one am always looking for such acts of good (however big or small) be acknowledged and reciprocated. One can’t go wrong with an act of kindness and there is no doubt Ethiopian children and grand children would live to be proud for kindness rendered to others by their ancestors. It is not how much they helped but the idea of helping and peace making that counts. As they say, what you take is temporary and what you give is permanent. An act of good blesses the doer for ever in perpetuity. So, good job on acknowledging that.

          – Question: Does Pearl harbor justify Hiroshima and Nagasaki? I.e did the US asked the Japanese to apologize? http://wtpotus.wordpress.com/2011/10/13/obama-apologizes-to-japan-for-the-atomic-bomb/

          I for one think Ethio-Eritrea conflict is an unfortunate handling of the problem by both leaderships, but the demand for apology may not have any takers, unless within a broader context of reconciliation. Where does this leave the prospect of peace between our sisterly countries?

          Regards

          • Hayat Adem

            HAILETHEGREAT (deliberately capitalized and my hat off, sir. you have turned yourself enjoyably contagious^),
            Your questions:
            1) I do not know whether asked or on self-move, but Japan has been apologizing since the end of WWII and all the way to the 21st century, for all acts of war crimes and the pearl harbor. The last apology was as recent as 4-5 years ago. You might be surprised to know the quantity of too-many apologies of Japan that never has a decade passed without 5-10 apologies.
            2) I am not aware if US has submitted a formal apology to Japan for the atomic attack. I think more informed Awatistas can shed a light on the matter. But I’m aware there were a lot of citizens’ groups who have been dispatching apologies on behalf of America. I don’t why America took this long to apologize. There have been talk of state official apologies on that during the Obama’s term recently. I don’t think it materialized and some press reports were saying it is the Japanese who don’t want to receive it. I’m sure people like Amde can enlighten us more (I think of him as one of well updated of global events)
            3) Acts like Hiroshima and Nagasaki can never be justified in the real sense. That is not to say Japan is free of blame from not causing them. But justification at another level can be detected all over. Otherwise, Japan would not have come to be a good friend of America for this long. I’m aware of the defeat factor but I think they evolved beyond and I would think that would never be the case if there were only Hiroshima and Nagasaki, in the absence of Pearl Harbor. i would also say the world would have been less milder on accusing US.
            4) In our case, let’s do what we can until our sates and the institutions catch up. A show of apology and remorse for a mistake done is not a sign of weakness. And if you want it to be effective, it should not be done in a prisoners-exchange style: you release that, I release this”. PMMZ had done it without waiting for PIA. Did it make PMMZ look weaker or less nationalist? No, never. HaileTG, I wish your potent energy, which is already impacting us positively, could also focus on changing the wrong Eritrean mind-set on this issue, side by side, to the extraordinary engagement you are firing up on us to end this awkward agent of paralysis called PFDJ.
            Hayat

          • Kokhob Selam

            Hayata, Keep it up.

        • Hope

          Question: “Does Pearl harbor justify Hiroshima and Nagasaki? I.e did the US asked the Japanese to apologize”?
          Courtesy of Haile TG.
          On the same token,what Haile TG–yes indeed The Great,by any standard,at least,since my Cousin SAAY said so,is asking you,the Ethiopians and their Leadership is:
          1)”Does or did attacking and taking over Baduma justify ” National or Parliamentary Declaration of Major War?BTW,Mr Yemane Ghebre’Ab asked Ethiopia the same question Haile TG asked and added saying that they should have given us a chance to think about what we did.This analogy is,of course,not relevant but gives some idea.
          2)Does or did simple Economic Opportunism used and introduction of Nacfa by the GoE in 1990s justify the unprovoked invasion of Adi Murug by the TPLF.
          3)What pushed or encouraged the TPLF to officially but illegally incorporate
          a large chunk of the Eritrean Land into the “New Abay Tigray Map”?
          4)What encouraged the TPLF to officially deport Eritreans from Baduma in an organized manner during the relative peace we enjoyed in 1990s?
          5)Based on the above assertions/premises,if the USA destroyed Heroshima and Nagasaki along with more than 35,000 people within seconds with Atomic Bombs,simply because the Japanese “foolishly” “provoked” the USA by bombing with few minimal bombs,wasn’t it justifiable by common sense, for Eritrea to counter attack and capture Baduma,which belongs to her,after years of patience after repeated provocations and even invasions besides the torture of her own Citizens and illegal incorporation of her Sovereign Lands?
          If the Ethiopians are asking for an apology ,why cann’t Eritreans ask them for an aopology for the 30 plus yrs of devastation they had incurred upon us?

      • Kaddis

        Selam Serray – I am with you on your effort to think of Eritrea’s strategic interest currently.

        But – the fact I could not understand is the idea of trying to differentiate the elites ( people to some extent ) of Ethiopia and Eritrea during HS and Dergue. Don’t you think you have taken ‘ we have never been part of Eth’ narration too far? Regardless what Eri’s had in their mind, or supports in discreet – they were Ethiopians. They were Ethiopians with all the duties and benefits. They were part of the Ethiopian elite – which you can not distinguish whether they supported this or that. I doubt Ethiopians in general had an influential polity with influence during Dergue. Not sure during HS.

        OK, forget my explanation – just explain to me – the parallel b/n the Oromo group or group of peoples (?) with independent Oromiya in mind. Can they say – if they become independent – we were not part of Ethiopia in a sense to avoid any guilt Ethiopia performed. You can extend it to the Scots who are going polling today as well. How about the Eritreans who took part in the red- terror who killed and get killed by taking this side or the other? Are they immune of the ‘Ethiopian guil’t?

        Will they be allowed to dis- associate themselves of past actions of their past country?

        • Serray

          Selam Kaddis,

          I am not a big fan of the word “elites”. The way many ethiopians use it on this website is euphemism for “you people”. Anyway, power was very thinly distributed in ethiopia during haileslasie or dergi; it is very thinly distributed today. My view of our “elites” inside the country is that of servitude. If they don’t behave, they get it. That is why we don’t have people known for their outspoken position in politics roaming free during HS or dergi. So, no, when it comes to eritrean issues under HS or dergi, you can’t hold the “elites” responsible because the benefits of expressing or acting on a view independently was nonexistent. The same holds true for ethiopian elites.

          About oromos, yes, they can say they were not part of it if they become independent because power is still thinly defined in your country. For now EPRDF, which is dominated by TPLF, rules but if down the road the party reflects the real composition of its parts, then by the sheer size and influence of oromos in the party, it will be difficult to say that they are not part of whatever EPRDF did to their people.

    • Rodab

      Selam Hayat,
      Just a short note of my disapproval of your item #5.
      As it is becoming more and more clear that past negative statements won’t help in advancing good relationships, what is the point of digging up old stuff? One of the things I find unjust with writing on the internet is, those who write with their real names are badly disadvantaged, as their remarks are of public record and accessible as needed. I am sure at some point the rest of us have written things we would happily revise, but thank God, there is no record…

      An old quote (regardless of its accuracy at the time) doesn’t give accurate picture when a) it is brought up and let to be judged from the present angle, and b) what prompted the remark or as to under what condition it was said is not revealed. Besides, everybody knows the Eri-Ethio cyber warfare that were going on back then.

      If signals of what individuals say here is worrying, you should be worried more about T. Kifle because it was only weeks ago he was laying terrible accusations of Eritreans allegedly calling Ethiopians hamema that should be killed using flit (something to that effect). That should really really worry you as it is reminiscent of the Ghebru Asrats and Siye Abrahas. Peace!

      • Saleh Johar

        Hi Rodab, well said. In fact as you said, Saay has been writing using his real name. But honesty requires that those with whom he was debating and context be mentioned. Bringing it in selected sentences as a means of attack is low. This shows those who accuse others of living in the past actually have a love story with the past. It’s fifteen years for God’s sake!

        • Hope

          —–and if I may add,the past situation at that particular time should be considered.
          What if we retrieve what the current accusers might have said if it were possible to rewind what they said at that particular time of the past…..evnethough what the documented facts of what their leaders have said is more than enough to quote or misquote or accuse them.
          But againmy point is:
          What has this discussion of Religion/State/Arabic/accusation and counter-accusation to do with our current debate?
          I thought it is past due to debate on Regional Reconciliation and Regional Economic Integration…

      • T. Kifle

        Hi Rodab,
        It’s not an accusation. It was aired on Dimtsi Hafash. Speaking of worries, you shouldn’t be much concerned as I am diametrically opposed to their view on Eritrea. But that doesn’t mean whatever crap the PFDJ has been spitting all along the years would be forgotten. Why not you ask SGJ to forget KHS? 🙂 . We could and should forgive but we shall not forget every bit leveled against us and shall keep it for public record.

        • Haile WM

          hi T.Kifle
          You keep repeating this mantra style accusation like it has some kind of point in it. I never heard something to that effect on dimtsi hafash and less on official view, but i can be mistaken, so please provide us this information, when was it aired on dimtsi hafash ? who’s view was that. It’s easy to say something like that to rally sentiments of anger in war time propaganda but when making a point in a debate it’s risky…
          Regards

      • Hayat Adem

        Dearest Rodab and SGJ,
        past statements
        -i’ll be refraining myself from using past statements unless i find it absolutely necessary in addressing an important issue. on this one, i could have passed my message without the quote and it seems it was not the wisest of me to resurface it. saying this in addressing some of your other concerns in my using of the quote, i would say the quote was not abused or De-contextualized; i was not slashing and burning. Sal wrote this in 2000 to ridicule a certain historian named alemeseged abay who attempted to ridicule the senselessness of the war as a war between brothers and tried to promote eritrea’s natural links to ethiopia using earlier positions and writings of weldeab weldemariam. SGJ would have been correct in describing my use of this old quote as “low” if he had known and had let us know that Sal had officially declared departure from such kind of views. I personally am not aware of any pronouncements from Sal disassociating himself from past extreme views he used to harbor. but nonetheless, i could have presented myself more positively if i hadn’t used that quote. basically, i’m heeding your main advice and explaining the peripheral worries you attached with it.

        pen name/ real name
        -users choose one for a calculated reason. the ones who use pen names focus on selling content whereas those who prefer to use real names want to sell their names associated with the contents. because they think names are as important as the content, it only means, they should be double cautious as this means they are putting their name on the line. they should carefully work for consistency, fairness and integrity. these values are for everyone but real name owners should be more protective and not expect considerateness to be favored by readers.

        flies/flits
        -i’m not sure whether it was actually said by eritrean officials or the eritrean media at the time OR gebru asrat was making it up. but if it was said, i worry more about the eritrean attitude and mind-set that could produce such stupidity than the target of such stupidity. i worry more at the eritrean elite who was not forthcoming of rejecting them during the utterances and is more ashamed of hearing back the echo. that would mean “we don’t mind being as stupid as we can get but please don’t tell us back about our stupidity”. it just doesn’t make sense if i have to say it mildly. but if it is unsaid and it was made up, on the other hand, i worry of the same stupidity of gebru asrat or whoever is creating it for the sake of fueling animosity between two fraternal peoples.
        Hayat

        • Tzigereda

          Selam Hayat,
          it is becoming increasingly unbearable to read your bottomless indictment. What was your stand during the war? Did you adress it publicly? How can I ( we) know, if you were not an active part of one of the ” invaders”? Your statment regarding pen name vs. real name is weird, hypocrite and dishonest!

          • Hayat Adem

            Selam Tzigereda,Not that your questions are unreasonable but it is just I choose to postpone them for another time. Your comments seem to carry more emotions than messages. Don’t go hard* on me, sister.
            Hayat
            ————
            *Thanks God, I’m safe because of gender-sameness. (Get a life, hairy-leg conscious people:)))

          • Tzigereda

            Selam Hayat,

            Which side you are representing is irrelevant to me. It’s far more important how faithful and
            consistent you are to your own noble sentence “…My commitment is to contribute to building to promote all the positive spaces did help us rehabilitate the trust and confidence we
            lost in between this closest peoples on earth …”.

            My short comment may have sounded harsh, probably due to my disappointment. I expect from a woman with the above quoted stand something else, in the sense of promoting peace and reconciliation. Your previous comments contradict your “noble idea” that you’ve made ​​public. I find it disappointing that you keep busy, quoting and paraphrasing “ancient” postings written
            during the war (one-sided!, Why did you choose emphasizing on what SAAY wrote in 2000 in Dehai, and not the many articles that followed ? I also missed any reference of those articles by Alemseged Abbai & SAAY ) which has nothing to do with the truth, having reconciliation as a goal. The Awatistas here are well known, no regime supporters, and they don’t deserve to be treated as such and addressed (as well as the majority of Eritreans).
            I am of the firm belief that citizens (particularly women) of these two countries may significantly contribute to make peace in this region possible. And this begins with mutual respect, free of any resentment. A serious and honest reconciliation will not require any preconditions. “Contempt” or “high – handedness ” are misplaced. I’m not talking about treaties and rulings that would be negotiated between states. I’m talking about citizens who are willing to provide an atmosphere of
            reconciliation.

            Each side has suffered heavy losses, and Eritrea is certainly the country, which is
            at a disadvantage in all areas. In these very difficult situations encouragement is badly needed.
            “Humiliation” and “warning” do not constitute any support. Hence I hope again that you remain
            steadfast to your declared stand. Peoples of both nations deserve better than what we are witnessing.

          • Hayat Adem

            Tsigereda Haftey,
            That is my declared commitment and if you find me deviating from that please feel free to direct the spot light right onto me and that will be a favor you can always do to me to get me back to the right track. I don’t mind being reprimanded for my excesses caught and I can agree easily with what you just said above generally though I’m afraid I am not able to pin myself where I erred. It sometimes helps to bullet them.
            One thing you mentioned is about the quote. Let me say it again, I want to promote positivity of
            the future, so I already said that I wish I didn’t use it when I was addressing Rodab and SGJ. However, as a matter of argument, it is not sinning to hold people for what they wrote and said or done if it was after entering adulthood and they said or did it under no forced conditions. It can also be relevant particularly if they haven’t declared it wrong or justifed it. And when what they say now triggers your memory of the past, you get tempted to revisit. Also bear in mind, how Sal was
            pounding and re-pounding his chest on T. Kifle to produce any evidence showing that he ever said anything about talking down Ethiopia and Ethiopians.
            And then he came with this so many names, the latest one weyanie groupie, replacing the old ones (“ygist, yg-cultist, yg-desciple).

            BUT if it is Sal the person, we’re talking about, I’ve nothing for him but love. In fact, when some illness (it seemed dangerous then) befell me, I can’t forget the kind of love and sympathy he showered me with and that will live with me forever.
            Yours Hayat

          • Tzigereda

            Selam Hayat,

            Yes, it is not sinning to hold people for what they wrote and said, as long as they are not misqouted or misinterpreted, and providing a link would have helped much. Since SAAY has already posted the issue of what he and Alemseged wrote in 2000 I will simply let it pass. I dont really understand what excatly was wrong with that article, Maybe you read it again.

            And now you say “Sal was pounding and re-pounding his chest on T. Kifle to produce any evidence showing that he ever said anything about talking down Ethiopia and Ethiopians.” No Hayat, SAAY was challenging T.Kifle to show him where he said that Eritrean life is worth more than Ethiopian life, a challenge he has yet to meet.

            So dear Hayat a generalised ” qouting” is just misleading specially for those who dont follow the comments and read the articles well, and this ” style” is getting counterproductive for those who wish and claim to be part pf a reconciliation liga.

          • Hayat Adem

            Selam Tzigereda,
            1) I didn’t misquote or mic-contextualize him
            2) He has put the links for you
            3) i don’t what Sal is getting from wrongly characterizing and adjectivising others. I never and can never say, Eritrea bad. I will always say PFDJ bad, the two are different no matter some people find it difficult separating them.
            4) If he is still defending that article, I think that quote should tell us something into his thinking and feeling uneasy about any sort of positive relationship b/n Ethiopia and Eritrea.
            5) As much as I love Sal for so many qualities, I’m sometimes visited by a strange feelings about him and question if he has been honest about the things he is saying on pfdj.
            Hayat

          • saay7

            Thanks Tzigereda:

            You are a classy lady. If you really want to stump Hayat, don’t ask her what’s wrong with what I said in 2000 (she can write a 2,000-word article on that), ask her if there is anything in what Alemseghed Abbay wrote that she finds objectionable and all you will hear is a chirping sound.

            There is a pathetic group of Eritreans who didn’t even have the guts to say “Ethiopias deportation of Eritreans was wrong.” Whenever that issue was raised they would do their moral equivalence and say “what about the Erhiopians eritrea deported in 1991?” When the late Meles Zenawi apologized for it (without creating equivalence) they were shown to have been morally bankrupt because they always to have to check with “da boss” before they decide whether something is right or wrong.

            I always say “no Eritrean left behind” and that includes the “Hayat”s of eritrea (who is writing with that assumed name because she is more interested in advancing her ideas that those of us who are more interested in advancing our name:) But they should just be honest with themselves and admit their version of Eritrea is a sidekick to Ethiopia.

            saay

          • saay7

            Selamat Tzigereda:

            You are discussing issues with Hayat as if she is somebody who is impartial and interested only in the truth. Gooood luck:) In this particular case, she chewed more than she can swallow because, unfortunately for her, both articles are available: what I wrote AND what I was replying to. For those interested in finding out for themselves whether T.Kifle and Hayat accurately describe the context of what I wrote in Dehai in 98-2000, this is a God-sent for me:

            A Truly Tragic and Fratricidal War!

            By Alemseghed Abbay, June 20, 2000
            http://www.oocities.org/~dagmawi/NewsJune2000/Comment_Fratricidal_War.html

            Warping History Ethiopian Style
            By Saleh AA Younis, June 26, 2000
            http://www.dehai.org/conflict/home.htm?commentaries.htm
            (Article # 22)

            What is remarkable, to me, is that the Ethiopian hardliners (and their Eritrean appeasers) haven’t moved one inch in the last 14 years: everything was Eritrea and Eritreans fault (due to Italian colonialism) and Ethiopia did nothing wrong at all. The same discussions we have been having. Please read it for yourself as I WOULDN’T CHANGE ONE WORD IN THE PIECE. What pissed me off the most is that Alemseghed Abbay’s book was published by Red Sea Press and when Red Sea Press was closed by the regime, he had NOTHING to say during the two year “fratricidal war” and surfaced his head only after the guns were silent.

            saay

        • Amanuel Hidrat

          Hayatom,

          What makes you not to write by your name? why is real names are very important for good or bad? Those who writes using real names is to sell themselves? I can’t believe it to hear this from Hayat. Suppose the journalist in the free world who write by their names, could they be selling themselves or doing their journalist profession? Are you kidding? wow!!! you can hide your fears by not using real name but you can’t tag to those who overcome their fears and do what ever takes, as sellers of their names. This is an insult of the highest order.

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam Amanuel Hidrat,.
            .
            You said “suppose the journalist in the free world who write by their names, could they be selling themselves or doing their journalist profession?”
            .
            I would say, YES, they are doing both.
            .
            Bill O’rielly Chris Mathew etc. And the big columnists of N.Y Times and Washington Post have brand names. “Are you kidding?”
            .
            I think Mr/Mrs Guest is right in his/her comment. Lately, you have been advancing bizarre, incoherent ideas and statements.
            .
            When you get challenged, you are sounding angry too. Unless it is one of those manufactured angers Eyob is talking about.
            People do that, you know, when they run out of ammunitions.
            .
            K.H

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dear Kim,

            leaving aside your characterization, you are wrong. They are selling their ideas or their journalistic reports. If their reporting is news worth and if the public found it as good for consumption, they harvest accolades and could attribute to the growth of their personalities. Their work is the cause and the accolade that comes with it, is the effect (result).

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam Amanuel Hidrat,
            .
            Thank you, I rest my case.
            .
            K.H

  • Kokhob Selam

    noted brother. thank you.

  • Kokhob Selam

    Now it is time to have cup of coffee go to Jebena and enjoy reading. …..ንህብን ሳርየትን . . . .

  • GUEST

    FOR SELAMAWI KOKEBE SELAM ,FOR SMART SAAY ,FOR OUR MEMHER GASHE SALEH , FOR NEFSE EYOBA AND AL WHO CAN SPEAK AMHARIC -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrtdIgVYLNo ESKI ZENA BELU

    Kokhob Selam

    • Kokhob Selam

      Lol, what I didn’t understand is why you put my name in the bottom. except the awate team others may think this is posted by me.
      really I enjoy it. a lot of massages. thank you.

    • saay7

      Selamat Awatistas:

      A theory needing validation:

      Asmarinos, specially friends, call each other “nebsi!” or “nebsey”, literally “body!” or “my body!” In this post, “Guest” calls Eyob “Nefse”.

      I think it all started out, back in the 1970s, when some Asmarino heard an American at Kagnew call him “buddy” and he thought he was saying “body”. Until someone comes with a better theory, that’s its origin.

      Sem, no, “nefs tsrit?” salvation has nothing to do with the above:)

      saay

      • Mahmud Saleh

        saay;
        and not “anfotat Qdooy” too.

      • haileTG

        Selamat saay nebsi

        You may well be right as I have no clue how it caught on but I always assumed it to have been started from the Amharic Gelaye (romantic affactionate) and literally translated to nebsi/nebsey.

        The other reason I thought it may not be from the 70s is because asmarinos were frozen during dergue era and then degraded during PFDJ rule in to the current generation that (on majority) doesn’t know how to knot a tie. In those days, asmarinos were classy, multilingual and the erudite class of the trendy Asmara metropolis. In those days, I was told, when you stroll down Komishtato, there were men standing by perfume and fragrance shops wearing an Officer’s attire who would greet you and request if you wish to sample their products. I was told that the Asmarinos were furious at being sprayed with out being asked as it could interfere with the fragrance they already be wearing to match with their particular outfit for the day. (Now time to fire up Eyob and TK:-) the Ethiopian visitors at the time however use to profusely thank by being sprayed or line up for one if the brat passed them up ….hahah (go on fire now:-)

        Recently I was in Asmara, an old friend stopped by to say hello by the club Enda Aibai. He is a brother of a big name in Eritrea and currently one of the money men there. So, I can’t say his name but you would know him. When he came by I cracked a joke to him by saying ” ማእ..ኣንታ ከመይ ዝበልኩም ኢኹም ኣብዚ ዓዲ! ሉቺ የለ ገለ የለ፡ ግብ ዝበለ ጸልማት፡ ክንደይ ህዝቢ ሕልኽልኽ ይብል ኣብዚ ጽርግያ? ወረ ከመይ ገይሩ እዩ እቲ መንገዲ ዝረኣየኩም?፡-)” How do you guys manage to have so many people walking the streets in such darkness with no electricity? And he joked back “ኣንታ እንታይ ክንገብር ኢልካና፡ ናብ ኣናጹ እንድዮም ቀይሮምና፡ ኣናጹ ጥራይ እኮ እየን ብጸልማት ዝርእያ! ፡-) “what do you expect us to do, they managed to turn us into rats. It is only rats that see in the dark!”

        So my point is that Asmarinos in the 70s and before were way too classy and cultured and wouldn’t have used those terms and if they did wouldn’t have messed up such simple pronunciation.

        OK now I am ready to take the Ethiopian punch, who wants to go first 🙂

        • Eyob Medhane

          Haile,

          No, no Ethiopian punch, here.. I was just wondering, though. In those days did Asmarinos ride their flying cars or just only their unicorns?

          • haileTG

            haha Eyoba.. something in between, judge for yourself…;-)

          • Eyob Medhane

            Ok Haile,

            No I am feeling antagonistic, and I am ready to shoot…..

            Oh yeah?! Is that how it is? So you’re telling me that your weird looking ‘flying car’ can’t match this ? 🙂 Mind you I selected ALL these pictures from 1931-1959. Not even 60…. Believe me we had everything you had anymore. We’re just not good tooting our own horn, as you seem to be (if you know what I mean)…. 🙂

          • haileTG

            Phew….you’re so fast for me Eyobai, now the next question:

            I suspect that most or all of the drivers/owners these cars were Asmarinos who moved to Addis and took their FIAT that they bought from Asmara’s Fiat service and dealer center, Fiat Tagliero. The Fiat Tagliero service center was built in 1938 for the automobile Fiat’s Lingotto factory in Torino.

            (Image and background info. courtesy of shabait.com http://www.shabait.com/about-eritrea/art-a-sport/11053-the-legend-of-fiat-tagliero)

          • haileTG

            actually I found the real flying cars Eyoba..haha (click if it doesn’t show)

          • Eyob Medhane

            Damn Haile,

            Fine, beat me. That was very cool…I give up. Wait…How about the longest serving Palace in subsaharan Africa? over a 135 years still going strong… :-)That does it. That will beat your flying car. Dram roll please Menelik Palace….

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam Eyob,
            .
            I hate to throw you under the bus, while you are in the middle of battle..
            .
            I think that is the national palace (used to be called Jubilee palace) next to Ghion hotel. I saw it with my own eyes when it was being built. I am not a 100 years old yet.
            Sorry,
            .
            K.H

          • Haile once I saw the air plain looking gas station in Asmara, I was stunned to learn the age of it. and I couldn’t help but to reference it against Ethiopian “ booming” contraction. The clip you see is a brand new “supposed be” bridges that will be used for the train to come. It looks; well cheap work and Made-in-China style. The funny part is the train didn’t even start yet.
            http://38.media.tumblr.com/8efa0ef8089f8ceb35be1b9c0d554b0e/tumblr_n8e83mbxQX1tgvs6oo1_1280.jpg

      • Kim Hanna

        Selam saay7
        .
        I have another theory. I think the word “nebsey” is Amharic word for “my life”. Nebs is life. (or very close to it) (nebsu tefa). It is an expression of endearment, when you call some one “nebsey” my life. That is the literal meaning. If I am asked to translate it into English I would say it means “my dear”.
        Until a better one comes along I will stick with my understanding of it. By the way I will stick my head out, way out there and say “nebsi” is Tigrinya for “nebsey”.
        .
        K.H

      • Rodab

        Sal TG,
        My ill-informed theory is, “nefse” was derived from the Tigrigna word “nebsi” and was immigirated from Asmara to Addis like ‘fara’ and ‘arif’ (Harif).

      • Saleh Johar

        Saay, How about Ya ruHi, ya Hayati, or…

        qdmekha tsTH yebbleni, draarye, drarey, Hlebye, menbaaye,

        • saay7

          SGJ:

          How about a theory for them too? Way above my pay scale.

          My favorite, in Tigrayit, was “Qebray”, literally “my burier.” There was a blind old man in Keren and he said hi to everyone, including asmarino visitors with the salutation of “Qebray.” We didn’t know what it meant so we called him Qebray:)

          saay

    • Eyob Medhane

      Guest,

      Thank you…It is funny. Drop by at Jebena on Saturday, Nefse.. -:)

  • Amanuel Hidrat

    Selam Abu Saleh (Saay),

    This is to remind you, Saay “the walking encyclopedia” to use the accolade attributed to you by “Horizon,” to have a look in the following links below to record the history, if you have an open archive in the memory of your mind. These two heroic tegadelti dug a hole and freed themselves from the prison of “Markato” in Asmara in 1971. For the awatistas to enjoy the act of our heroic urban guerillas – a reading for the day.

    (1) http://togoruba.org/togoruba1964/mainTogorubamap/mainMap/headingMap/2014A/1409AH4-ASP1.pdf

    (2) http://togoruba.org/togoruba1964/mainTogorubamap/mainMap/headingMap/2014A/1409AH4-ASP2.pdf

    (3) http://togoruba.org/togoruba1964/mainTogorubamap/mainMap/headingMap/2014A/1509AH4-ASP3.pdf

    Amanuel Hidrat

  • Pingback: Eritrea Hands The Djiboutian Soldier Over To Qatar | Awate()

  • Kokhob Selam

    Ok,have a nice time reading the poem about language in Jebana. it is an old poem found in my record.

  • dawit

    Dear destaa,
    Now we are in big trouble. I don’t know if AT has a resident historian to settle this. Was it Menelik who carried stone and begged King of Kings Yohannes IV and not his son Mengesha Yohannes and Alula Aba Nega, that begged clemency for revolting against King of Kings Menelik II. Waiting eagerly who could shed light on this latest historical discrepancy.
    dawit

    • saay7

      Selamat Dawit:

      Not a historian by any means.

      According to one historian, Ras Mengesha, who was sweet-talked by the Italians who pledged their support while they were arming Menelik, eventually saw the writing on the wall. He and his generals (including Ras Alula), went to Addis to submit. “Within the Grand Palace’s newly constructed reception hall, the emperor awaited, seated on his throne, a large crown on his head. Mengesha and his three major lieutenants, including Ras Alula, approached, each man carrying a rock of submission on his shoulder, then prostrated themselves, and asked for forgiveness. Menilek simply declared them pardoned, thus bringing Tigray back into the empire.”

      That was in June 1894, which began a 100-year long subjugation of Tigray until Harbeyna Weyanai I stormed into the same palace (shhhhh without Eritrean help, no mechanized tanks here, nothing to see:) to Menelik Palace in May 1991.

      Now, if only you pesky Eritreans would just carry a stone and tell T.Kifle “forgive us, my liege” peace (with humiliation) would reign in Eritrea for another 100 years.

      saay

      • Eyob Medhane

        Sal,

        አቤት አቤት አቤት…አሰማመርከው መቼም…ዉይ ዉይ ዉይ መጥኔ!!!! Is it ok to write in Amharic or am I also accused of being culturally ‘dominated’, and it will be suggested that it might be better I use Arabic, though it has nothing to do with my county and identity? 🙂

        That is true. Menelik actually did carry a stone HIMSELF, when he made peace with Yohannes the IV. But, for Yohannes IV, it was only his generals to do so. Unlike your insinuation, the moral of that story is the respect the two leaders had for each other….

        I’d like to end this comment with the Coca Cola’s new year commercial, which is done of course in Amharic (I don’t know why the Coca Cola company did that, they should have done it in Arabic to show that they were not dominated culturally 😉 )

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIw5eZ4rlxA

        • saay7

          Eyobai:

          I already told you that there are a couple of signs to watch for when a country is creating a middle class: one is heavy metal music. The other is Coca Cola commercials. One out of two ain’t bad: Coca Cola sucks and there should be a movement right now against the health effects of that carbonated sugar water:)

          If you want to beat the Arabs, you have to come up with an Amharic word for “Diet” because after Coke fattens you with its sugar water, it has another product “diet coke” to help you lose weight while maintaining your addiction to its poison:) The Arabs have no word for “Diet Coke.”

          saay

          • Saay, you are missing one more thing on your two indictors of creating middle class. That is; When your new beer is made by Heineken and named not some foreigner name but your own pride Walya, that should be the 3rd indicator of creating middle class.
            T.K says he will treat me with this new beer when I land in Bole air-port, lol and of course straight to prison 🙂

            https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1497593_907127072650829_3253218171059224362_n.jpg?oh=8ff6768b461ebca0cffbd620dd777325&oe=548DC820&__gda__=1418961693_37d31b1c1828bb588e67bff9e5dd8588

          • saay7

            Selam Nitricc:

            Two questions. (a) When the flight attendant is serving you Walya, what is the name of the carrier that she works for: is it still Taj Mahal? (b) Does Walya have a “bite” or is it “toothless”?

            saay

          • SAAY please don’t get me started about the Ethiopian airlines debacle. I don’t get it the thought school of Dedebit.
            You have state of an art air craft that only two countries in the world; Japan and Ethiopia, managed to import it, then the Ethiopians shamefully named it, after Taj-Mahal.
            Ethiopian Airlines – Bringing the Dreamliner to Africa and named it After India. What a shame.
            There is no tooth in Ethiopia, the only time you see some tooth is when there is row-meat. 🙂
            SAAY, have you ever had a row meat? or row Kitffo?

            http://afritorial.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Ethiopian-Boeing-787-Dreamliner-2.jpg

          • Abinet

            Better to have no tooth than a mouth fool of teeth attached with glue
            “Besem yeteTabeqe Tirs
            bibelubet ayadeq
            Bisqubet ayademq

          • Mahmud Saleh

            Nitrikay;
            you were having a decent day with saay, why would you bother by the usual suspects? No 48 hrs deadlines, OK. ” The dogs bark, but the caravan keeps walking” would be fitting in these situations.
            Where is the thread you said would start the last time you replied to me?

          • Eyob Medhane

            Meh…I just stuck my tongue out on you… 🙂

          • saay7

            Nitricc toothfull:

            When I was a kid the “tre-sga” (raw meat eater) vs “anbeTa belicha” (grasshopper-eater) was the Ethio-vs-Eri teasing. This was just an example of Eritreans and Ethiopians exposing our limited cuisine otherwise the Japanese eat raw fish (sushi) and the Chinese eat..well everything. We have a long coastline with lots of fish but limited fish diet. So, although I have never eaten raw meat and I don’t eat meat, I recommend that the next Eritrea-Ethiopia Peace Club that Mahmoud and Fanti are founding should serve both and invite us.

            Ethiopian Airlines…hmmm, you know how much you follow American football and admire well-run teams? I follow businesses and greatly admire the well-run ones and Ethiopian Airlines is the best-run business in Africa, period. And I think it was an inspired choice calling their Dreamliner Taj Mahal; it is marketing genius. What were you going to call it: Lalibela? Now do a word association game with Taj Mahal and Lalibela…. Exactly:)

            saay

          • Saleh Johar

            Nitricc, now you proved you don’t even have baby milk teeth when it comes to marketing. Ethiopian Airlines is not a unit in the country’s mechanized division run by the military. It is a business, a carrier that serves international customers. Maybe the income it generates from the India route is twenty time that of the domestic flights revenue. Your characterization aside, the way the Airlines conducts business can only attest to the marketing and management genius of its administrators. I am happy with it as long as they keep away Tre Sga from the menu they serve inflight. That would scare a lot of customers 🙂

  • Haile WM

    let me give you an example on why he used tigrigna and not use amharic.
    Do you remember melles zenawi giving speech in the newly formed state of eritrea and was the marking of the first independence day after official proclamation of the state? well in that occasion, even-though he perfectly knew tigrigna he delivered his official speech in amaharigna. do you know why ?? because that is the official language of Ethiopia. He used tigrigna to deliver his personal view and one of Tegadalay view later after the official amharic view.

  • saay7

    Funny Shum!

    Nah, it is not worth it to appoint judges because Harbeyna Weyanai II doesn’t believe in the finality of rulings. This would be followed by 5-point plans and insults to the judges for being out of touch…

    The whole T-Kifle approach to problem-solving is so feudal: it is fascinating and I would study it all day–if it were not so deadly. It boils down to this: Isaias Afwerki wronged us, he has shed blood: and because he is your son (Isaias wedkhum sle zkhone), you owe us an admission of error. And we are saying, “ewae! Isaias de’a ArkKhum memKhrtkum abey nfelTo?” And he is saying, you Eritrean banda! but because that would place him in the ghetto of political discourse, he has found a creative way to say it using fancy psych-101 language.

    I have zero interest in getting an apology from T Kifle. In fact, I think one of the major reasons the opposition is as weak as it is is because people fight over trivial issues and then refuse to reconcile unless the other party apologizes right now! My purpose was to show something: in the Eritrea-Ethiopia debate, we can either resolve things creatively, on a people-to-people basis (which will require an open mind, a willingness to accept the stories of the injured and the injurers (the EECC has a long list of crimes committed both by us and the Ethiopians), a long path to reconciliation) or it be done at a State-to-state level (where the language is international law, treaties and international mediators with long resumes.) T.Kifle’s approach of take-it-or-leave-it has, by his own admission, got him only two Eritreans who would take it: one is someone whom I admire greatly and who has very clear views of what T.Kifle represents (toxic ideas that Eritrea needs minimum exposure to.) The other, well, you said you don’t understand amharic but maybe Eyob/Nitricc can translate it for you: this expression describes her perfectly “እሳት መጣብህ ቢሉት እሳር ውስጥ ገብቻለሁ አለ” 🙂

    saay

  • Hayat Adem

    Dear Awatistas’
    Sal is nagging T. Kifle to produce evidence for accusations he laid on Sal and SGJ. But he is doing something similar himself on others. He recently advanced an allegation against me. He said,’ “Hayat is a Weyane groupie from the “Eshi Goytay” school of thought (accredited by TPLF)’. What does it even mean? I don’t need to say eshi goytai like what he used to be saying to Isaias (during the war) or “don’t know, don’t need you” like what he is saying now to our Ethiopian brothers/sisters. All I need to say is, “my sisters/brothers, there were mistakes done; but we have a longer future before us; together we can shape it for the better; let’s move on.”
    It is no more appealing for Eritreans to be gravitated to empty bravado that has nothing to do with intents of uplifting the spirit of Eritreans to get the necessary future-fitness. I am not sure if Sal’s problems emanate from old thoughts of “self-isolation and closedness” he used to advance aggressively in the past or from totally missing the larger picture of benefits for Eritrea when it restores the confidence and trust it must have with Ethiopia. I am for closeness not closedness. Again, it is for Eritrea’s sake.
    The goytai-ayaye moments surfaced during the war Sal was at full force of fueling it. That has passed with its encrypted marks and unmistakable scars, and of course, with Isaias saying GOYTAI out loud in front of the entire world with a mid night calls to previously forgotten ayayes, Clinton and Annan. All there after are slippery steps of banana piles, and the consequences of those fateful mistakes. Now, we don’t have to wait until every redemptionless comes out clean and admit for mistakes done, we want to turn page from those lowly moments and related hangovers and usher Eritreans to a new era.
    What an ego Sal is possessed with! A story goes like this: a man was devastated by series of bad events and had to eat his pride and ask for help to even feed himself. He was torn in between two situation: his big ego on the one hand, his destitute reality other. So he had to strike a middle ground. He approached a particular house and he started begging and bragging at the same time for help. From the door gate, he yelled out for attention: “A BRAVE MAN IS STANDING ON YOUR DOOR, COME OUT AND ATTEND HIM IMMEDIATELY”.
    Hayat

    • Hayat Gual Adi Grat.
      As they say.
      ” A stupid man’s report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.”

      • Kokhob Selam

        I don’t vote up and I don’t vote down Hayat’s comment. I just let it go. I do vote down Nitricc’s comment because ንትርኽ is not the way to solve differences.

        • sara

          comon… ato kokhob.. i thought you are more than this… many like your nice poems for eritreans ..i wish i could tell why some one like ato kokhob would chose vote to stay in adi-grat than adi-quala.

          • Kokhob Selam

            you wish you could but you couldn’t Sara Habtey. but even more, you thought I am more than that and you don’t know why? I love everybody , and when someone loves to love it is difficult to make him enemy. let us go for peace.

      • Rahwa T

        “gual adigrat…”. So you know Tigrigna words?

        • lol Yes, i shall know every word of it, whenever “gual” is involved or mentioned. what kind of a guy wouldn’t?

        • Kokhob Selam

          Rahwa Habtey, may be he don’t know Tigrigna words. but knowing this type of words is easy when you become PFDJ. I start to learn English when I became against PFDJ Lol. because I have to know what to say and I have to read what the opposition/PFDJ are saying Lol. example – the word Mafia – I don’t know if it is English still but I know the story of Mafia and I know PFDJ has similar character.

          the difference is supporters of PFDJ keep labeling people because they don’t get reasons and logic to challange.

          3 years back when I was debating with Nitricc, I became angry and said – if you are my son I could hang you and kill you. KKKKK. and he wonder what I mean. he keep asking about it and he found out what I mean after one year someone told him that I am trying to say “ሕንቕ ኣቢለ ምስ ቀተልኩኻ” and after one year he wrote that he understand what I mean.kkk I am sure you enjoy it.
          he said “kokhob if you hung me I am already dead what is remaining to kill me. “Lol. he is right so from that day I have only one PFDJ member to hug ( not to hang) and he is Nitricc. the motto is if you can’t hang him hug him.

          with all differences we have I still love him to be around.

    • welde

      Hi Hayat,
      I am 100% in agreement with everything you said above.
      thanks,

    • Serray

      Selamat Hayat and Sal,

      What say you, Sal?

      “Hayat is a Weyane groupie from the “Eshi Goytay” school of thought (accredited by TPLF)” that is not right, Sal. I have to scroll up and down to find the comment because I was sure hayat has misquoted you. We must live in peace with ethiopians shouldn’t be given any other meaning except that we should. This digging up of terms to make agreeing with ethiopians at any level a taboo is what has turned the pfdjs into a blabbering idiots. Ethiopians are not ruling eritrea; they are only holding a piece land they were holding while we were mindlessly celebrating independence that turned out to be a joke of the century. Let us work with the ethiopians should not not be turned into our version of a “house niggerism”.

      If you said that of Hayat because she did not responding forcefully to T. kifle identity swipe, it is a little weird because you cuddle a guy who has made an art of insulting everything eritrean on daily basis. In post-isaias eritrea, those who pursue peace with ethiopia are assets not liabilities. Locking horns with ethiopians at any level is unnatural. This need to lose when we have won has to stop.

      Hayat, it will be remiss of me if I don’t point one thing out: while you rarely respond to negative comments made by ethiopians about eritrea (and I am like you, hate to fight a war already won), you sometimes jump to defend ethiopia creating this illusion. I remember you and Amanuel jumping on me when I respond to a hate feast by some ethiopians immediately after lampedusa. I didn’t appreciate that given you two passed over many venomous statements to respond to me even though I rarely enter into these slugfests. The moral of the story is, be balanced or you will end up reinforcing the illusion. Remember, it is our job to define the ethiopia obsessed crowd as nut cases and make it stick in post-isaias eritrea.

      • Hahahahah you are funny. Serray I didn’t know you got some jokes. Why are you so-diplomatic with your partner, a partner of YG foot soldier? What kind of evidence would like to have before you can see that your partner is nothing but that; Weyane! Show me one article where Hayat defended Eritrea; one article but as gut-less you are, you went sugar-coding it. yes show one post by hayat in defense of Eritrea. I do understand you got defend her or else you will hear it from your master YG but don’t you ought to you it to your self and to the intelligence of your readers? Never mind serray; you are too damaged to see clearly and to judge fairly.

      • Rodab

        Selam Serray,
        I think the ‘feud’ between the two friends of ours is a long-running episode. I actually find it lovely, and what else could be more lovelier than me stoking the firewoods:-)

        On the latest encounter, Sal might have been upset with Hayat’s support of T. Kifle in the midst of the bitter war between Sal and T. Kifle. To be specific, Hayat found TK’s accusation against the two Sals unwarranted. But she said she was satisfied with everything else TK’s explanation – that would then mean including the ‘fake identity’ and other points of contention. With Sal perceiving Hayat a constant TK supporter, the support she lend TK at that time might have been the straw that broke the camel’s back.

        Now let me share my perceptions of the views of Hayat and Sal.
        It does appear to me that Hayat protects the Ethiopian side more often than she would the Eritrean side (and 100% times she would defend the Woyanes vs the PFDJ). BUT, it comes down to whether her explanation satisfies one or not, and her explanation (only according to my understanding) is that she was commenting as seen from the Eritrean side, and for the good of Eritrea.

        My perception of Sal’s view is the reverse of Hayat’s with the percentage of him favoring the PFDJ (60%) against the Woyanes (40%).

        One commonality is they both would say they are defending Eritrea.

        Of course I would be pleased if they were to correct me.

  • Eyob Medhane

    Sal,

    (And everyone, who wants to join in)

    For the last few weeks, (About a month) I am very much following what is happening with the Scotland succession, and it seems that there will be a very good chance that it might be happening in the next week’s referendum. Has anyone, including my friend and countryman T. Kifle ever tried to look at the Eritreans’ identity issue and the entire succession from the prism of Scotland’s succession saga? Minus the recent history of bloody wars, I see much similarities of the ‘Identity’ argument between Eritreans and the Scots. Please, have your say….

    • Dear Eyob Medhane,

      I do not think that “Identity” is a major issue in the Scottish Referendum. I do not say that it is completely non-existent. It looks more of a political and an economic saga than a conflict of Identity between the English and Scottish people, for the Identity of the Scottish person is fully manifested without limitation, at least over the last century or so. Their language, way of life etc might have been subordinate to the culture of the English Crown, nevertheless, Scotland has Home Rule, its own currency (if I am not mistaken), and their differences have not lead them to war and bloodshed. Of course, Ireland is a different story.

      Therefore, Scottish referendum will be free; it will not be in an
      atmosphere of post-protracted-war of independence, and “Freedom or Slavery” will not be put on the table to influence the vote of the Scottish people. That is the main reason
      why polls show that, at least for the time being, the tendency to vote “Yes or No” seems to be about fifty-fifty.

      In the Eritrean war of independence and latter the Eritrean referendum, Identity played an important role (one can even say that it was the engine that moved the war of independence and decided the fate of the referendum), while in the Scottish case, political and economic power seem the main factors that would influence the referendum.

    • saay7

      Selam Eyob:

      Just to spice up the conversation and draw the metaphors* you want to draw, the Scots want to opt out of Britannia but want to use the English pound. I think the Brits should insist on a letter of credit… Plus, they are both on the same island and need to deal with their border issues:) And, Scot eshi kaln, nege, kenege wediya Wales, Northern Islandm meTeyakachew ayQerm..slezih…

      Sorry, I was in One Ethiopia mode. Seriously speaking, this only became even a contest because somebody from the Yes vote lucked out and destroyed the bumbler from the No vote in a debate. But now that all money is talking (all the companies are against secession) and the elite are talking (all the national political leaders are against secession) then, my sense is that Scotland will go the same route that Quebec went a few years ago: with a plurality of people who want to secede but have to stay put with Enat Hager:)

      just my two cents worth.

      saay

      * Speaking of analogies, when Russia swallowed up part of Ukraine, the usual suspects were trying to create the same arguments for Ethiopia and Asab.

      • Eyob Medhane

        Sal,

        The reason that I was fascinated about the Scots and try to draw some similarities is because one of their rallying cry was William Wallace, as for you was Idris Awate. (William Wallace also had a bit rogue and Shoddy background, as the early ‘heroes’ and ‘leaders’ of Eritrean independence…

        • saay7

          Eyobai:

          Idris Awate is his father’s name. It is Hamed Idris Awate. And go easy on the adjectives on the man that this is very website which is hosting you is named after (where are you abesha manners?) or SGJ is going to come after you with his digital Abu Ashera:)

          saay

          • Eyob Medhane

            Sal,

            Fair. The gentle lash has been accepted 🙂 But honestly, William Wallace is not someone that should not have been a rallying cry for the Scotts… Have you seen the movie Brave Heart? The character was based on him….Owwww… Ma Karamba, how bloody… 🙂

            P.S…Please, see me at camera 2 (Jebena) I got something to show you, which I couldn’t wait, until Saturday….. Please….

        • Tesfabirhan WR

          Eyob M,

          I do not have a damn information about the person you are claiming to; the Scotish. But I can clearly tell you that you are messing up things. When we speak about Awate; we are not inventing history, we are trying to justifyhisotry or we are not claiming as his 1961 initiation is the only and only one means to our rights of the 30 years war time but within the the set of the whole dimensional struggle. Awate was a brave man who ignited the fire against Ethiopian annexation and all due respect goes to him for doing that. This is the truth.

          tes

  • Amanuel Hidrat

    ATT: Saay and SGJ,

    Please could heed the request of Habtegiorgis to make the necessary efforts to interview Ibrahim Mohammed Ali. He is the archive of history. I think I have also reminded you to do so, for the sake of the young generation.
    Amanuel Hidrat

    • Saleh Johar

      Emma, it is funny that you brought it up. I am working with his son, in fact we met on Friday night, and we are going over the logistics, hopefully it it will work.

      • Amanuel Hidrat

        Thank you Abu Saleh, I am looking forward with great enthusiasm.

        AH

  • Tesfu

    Hi SAAY,
    What he is trying to do is to get a minutes fame by stepping on Eritreans affair so that those TPLF might get notice him at the same time sell book. He will do any thing to get name recognition among his peers.
    IS THERE BAD PUBLICITY STUNT? that is what is looking for at the expense of eritreans

  • T. Kifle

    Dear Awatistasና ጓድ ማሕሙድ ሳልሕ

    “አይጥ ለሞቷ የድመትን አፍንጫ ትልሳለች”

    በአማርኛ ለመፃፍ የፈለኩበት ምክንያት ከእንግልዝኛ በተሻለ ሐሳቤን ለመግለፅ ስለሚያስችለኝ ነው፤ በትግርኛ እንዳልፅፈው ደግሞ የአማርኛ ተናጋሪ ዓወታውያን(ናይትሪክን ይመለከቷል J) ላለማስቸገር በማሰብ ነው። ለመግቢያ ያህል ይህን ካልኩኝ ወደ ዋናው የዕለቱ መልዕክቴ በቀጥታ ልግባ።

    ማሕሙድ ሳልሕ ያ ሁሉ ዙሪያ ጥምጥም ያስኬደን በርዕሱ ላይ በተጠቀሰው የቆየ አባባል በመናደዱ እንጂ አዲስ መረጃ ስለነበረው አይደለም። የአባባሉ መነሻም የተገነዘበ አልመሰለኝም። ሳልሕ የኑስ ጠይቆኝ እንደመለስኩለት ብሎ የፃፈው ነገር “ሻዕቢያን ማመናችን” የሚለውን አባባል ወቅቱና ሁኔታው ባለመለየትና የራሱን ትርጉም በመስጠት አላስፈላጊ መላላጥ ውስጥ ገብቷል። አዲስ መረጃ ግን አላቀረበም። ምክንያቱም ሊያቀርብ ስለማይችል።ባድመ በያኔው የትግራይ ጠቅላይ ግዛት ውስጥ ነበረች። ይህ እውነት ነው። የህወሓት አመራርም በወቅቱ ያቀረበው ሐሳብ ባድመም ሆነች ሌሎች መሬቶች ይተዳደሩበት ከነበረው የያኔው ጠቅላይ ግዛት ማስወጣት ተገቢ አለመሆኑንና እንደዛ እንዲሆንም እንደማይፈቅድ በወቅቱ ግልፅ አድርጓል። ድንምበር መካለል የመንግስታት እንጂ የነፃ አውጪዎች ሃላፊነት አይደለም። ስለሆነም ድንበር መካለል መንግስት ከተሆነ በኋላ አግባብነት ባላቸው ውሎችና የህዝቡን ይሁንታ ግምት ውስጥ ባስገባ መልኩ መከናውን እንዳለበት በማያሻማ ሁኔታ አቋሙን ግልፅ አድርጎ ነበር። የችግሩ ዋነኛ መነሻ ድግሞ በድንበር አከባቢ የሚኖሩትን የሁለቱን ወገን ህዝቦች በግጦሽ፣ በመሬት አጠቃቀምና ለሌችንም ማህበራዊና ኢኮኖሚያዊ መሳሳቦች ስለነበሩ ብቻ ሳህይሆን ጀብሃዎች ነፃ መሬታቸው እንደሆነ በማሰብ ወጣቶችን እያስገደዱ ያስታጥቁ ስለነበሩም ጭምር ነው።ህዝቡን ከዚያ አስገድዶ የማስታጠቅ አባዜ መከላከል ደግሞ ትክክለኛ እርምጃ ነበር። ይሁን እንጂ መርህ ጉዳዩ ላልነበረው የጀብሃ አመራር እንዲህ ያለው መፍትሔ-ሐሳብ የሚዋጥለት አልነበረም። ስለሆነም ከ ቲ.ኤል.ኤፍ፣ ከኢዲዩና ከኢህኣፓ ጋር በማሴር ህወሓትን ለማጥፋት አበክሮ መስራት ጀመረ። ችግሮቹ በቀረበው አማራጭ ሊፈታ ያልተዘጋጀው ጀብሃ ህወሓትን እንደ ስጋት በመቁጠር በችግር ላይ ችግር በመጨመር ሁኔታዎችን አባብሶ መፍትሔው ከአፈሙዝ ለመገኘቱ ዋነኛ ምክንያት ሆነ። ማሕመድ ከዚህ ቀደም ባቀረበው ፅሑፍ ባድመ በኤርትራ ስር እንደነበረችና ወሓትን ለማስደሰት የተተወች ጌጥ ለማስመሰል ሞክሯል። እውነታው ግን ሻዕቢያ ያኔ መሬት በበጎ ፍቃደኝነት መስጠቱ ሳይሆን መርሁን በመቀበሉ ነው ከህወሓት ጋር ያስማማው። ደርግ እስከወደቀበት ጊዜ ድረስም ብዙ የማያስማሙዋቸው ጉዳዮች ቢኖሩም ድንበርን የሚመለከት ችግር ግን ጎልቶ የተከሰተበት ታሪክ የለም። የህወሓት አመራር ትግሉ ያለባቸውን ፈታኝ ሁኔታዎች በግልፅ በመገምገም ደካማ ጎኖቹን የሚሻሻሉበትን ጥንካሬዎቹ ደግሞ በበለጠ ጎልብተው የሚቀጥሉበትን ምህዳር በመፍጠር ይታወቃል። በጀብሃ የተነሳ በህወሓት ላይ ተደቅኖ የነበረው ፈተናም አበይት ከሚባሉቱ ፈተናዎች ይመደባል። በትግሉ ታሪክ ውስጥ ያጋጠመ አሉታዊ ምዕራፍ እንደነበረም ተሰንዶ ተቀምጧል።ለማንኛውም ያ ምዕራፍ ገድሊ የፈጠረውን እብሪተኛ ሀገራዊነት ማቆጥቆጥ መጀመሩን ለማየት ከሚረዳን በስተቀር ሌላ እርባና የለውም። ስለሆነም ማሕመድ ወዳነሳው ሌላ ነጥብ ልግባ።

    ኢሳያስ አፈወርቂ ጦሩን ባድመ እንዲቆጣጠር ትእዛዝ ከማስተላለፉ ጥቂት ሰዓታት በፊት በኤፍሬም ስብሓት የሚመራ ልኡክ አዲስ አበባ ውስጥ ተከታታይነት በነበረው ስብሰባ ላይ እንደሚገኝ ነበር የሁለቱም ወገኖች እቅድ። ይሁን እንጂ ልኡኩ “ላስቸኳይ ጉዳይ” እንደሚፈለግ ለኢትዮጵያው ልኡክ በማሳወቅ ወደ አስመራ አመራ። ከሰዓት በኋላም ባድመ በኤርትራ ሃይሎች ስር ወደቀች። ከዚያ ቀጥሎ የመጣው ጣጣ ለቀባሪ ማርዳት ስለሚሆንብኝ አልፌዋለሁ። አሁን ዋነኛው ጥያቄ የሚሆነው ይህን ነው: የጀብሃ አመራር ለምን የባድመን ጉዳይ የህወሓት አመራር ባቀረበውና ሻዕቢያም የተቀበለው የመፍትሔ ሐሳብ ባለመቀበል መጥፊያው ለሆነው ጦርነት ውስጥ ለመግባት ፈለገ የሚለውን ነው። በትዕቢት የተወጠረውንና ከፍተኛ ቁጥርና ትጥቅ የነበረውን የጠረናፊት ሃይል በህወሓት ሃይሎች እንዳልነበር ሲሆን በዓይኑ በብረቱ አይተዋል። የቲኤልኤፍም የኢህኣፓም ሃይሎች እንደዚሁ እራሳቸው በለኮሱት ጦርነት ውስጥ ነደው የቀረውን ጥቂት የሰው ሃይል “ፖለቲካና ኤሌክትሪክ ከሩቁ” በሚል ፈሊጥ እግሬ አውጭኝ ብለው ወደ ሱዳን ሲተሙ ባያድናቸውም የችግራቸውን መጠንና ክብደት በተጨባጭ ተመልክቷል። ታዲያ ጀብሃ እራሱን ሊጎዳ በሚችል መጠን ህውሓትን ለመተናኮል ምን አነሳሳው? ከሌሎች የያኔው የኢትዮጵያ የፖለቲካ ሃይሎች በተለየ የኤርትራን የራስን ዕድል በራስ የመወሰንን መብት የተቀበለውን ህወሓት ለማጥፋት ለምን
    ዳዳው? ለነፃነት እሩቅ ከነበረችው ኤርትራ አንፃር ባድመ በምትባለው ትነጥየ መንደር ስር ተሰናክሎ ለመውደቅ ለምን መረጠ? ሚዛናዊ ኣእምሮ ላለው የፖለቲካ ተንታኝ የኤርትራ ነፃነት የተቀበለውን ህወሓት ባድመ የምትባል መንደር አግባብ ባላቸው ውሎችና እላይዋ ላይ የሚኖረውን ህዝብ “ኤርትራዊ ነኝ” ብሎ የሚያምንና የሚወስን ከሆነ በሰላማዊ ሁኔታ እንዲፈታ የማይፈልግበት ምክንያት ሊኖር ይችላል ብሎ ጭንቀት ውስጥ ለምን ሊገባ ቻለ? ደርግ ወድቆ ሁለቱ ነፃ አውጪዎች መንግስታት ከሆኑ በኋላ ለበርካታ አመታት ተዘንግቶ የነበረውን የድንበር ሁኔታ ከንግድ ልውውጥ ህግና የየሃገራቱ አዳዲስ ገንዘቦች መታተም ተከትሎ ለምን የሞት ሽረት አጀንዳ ሆነ? እንዲያው የወባ ትንኟ በኢሳያስ አፈወርቂ አእምሮ ላይ ያስከተለችውን የሚዛን መዛባት(በደንባራ በቅሎ ቃጭል ተጨምሮ እንዲሉ ቅኝ ግዛት ያስከተለውን ችግር ሳያንስ )ለግብታዊ ወሳኔዎች መተላለፍ አስተዋፅኦ ከነበራት ሌሎቹ ኤርትራውያን አመራሮች የት ነበሩ? ጅብ ከሄድ ውሻ ጮኸ እንዲሉ ጦርነቱ ሲጀመር ጆሮ ዳባ ልበስ ብለው ከበሮ ሲደልቁ የነበሩት አመራሮች ውጤቱ ባለማማሩ ምክንያት መሆኑን በሚያሳብቅ አኳሃን ምላሳቸውን ለምን አሾሉ? እንዲያው ሲጠቃለል ባድመ የሻዕቢያም የጀብሃም መጥፊያ መርዝ ለመሆን የበቃቸው ባጋጣሚ ነው ወይስ ዕጣ ፈንታ? እነዚህን ጥያቄዎች ሳይመልሱ “በእሽኮኮና በእዝል ከቤቴ መንግስት ውስጥ ዶልናችሁ” የሚል የትምክህት ጫፍ መነታረክ ጉንጭ አልፋ መመፃድቅ ነው።

    “አይጥ ለሞቷ የድመትን አፍንጫ ትልሳለች”: ይህ አባባል የተጠቀምኩበት ምክንያት እብሪቴን ለመግለፅ አይደለም። ሻዕቢያ በተከታታይ ብሔራዊ አገልግሎት አባላትን ሲያሰለጥንና የተራራ ውጊያዎች ልምምድ ሲያደርግ ስጋታቸውን የገለፁ ኢትዮጵያውያን ነበሩ። እንዲያውም የህወሓት ስራ አስፍጻሚ ኮሚቴ በዋንኝነት ትግራይ ውስጥ በነበሩት የተወሰኑ አባላት በአጀንዳነት ቀርቦለት እንደመረመረው የሚያመለክቱ ጭምጭምታዎች በጊዜው ይደመጡ ነበር። የኮሚቴው ውሳኔም ሻዕቢያ ዕብሪተኛ
    መሆኑ አንድና ሁለት ባይኖረውም ለህልውናው አደገኛ የሆነ እንዲህ ዓይነቱን ውሳኔ ግን ለመወሰን እንደማይችል እጅግ በተቀራረበ የድምፅ ልዩነት ወሰነ። ዘግይቶ በተከሰተው የጦርነቱን አካሄድና አጨራረስ ላይ የታየው ልዩነትም ዳራው ከዚሁ ልዩነት ይጀምራል። ኢህአዴግ በጊዜው ኤርትራን በተመለከተ ከፈፀማቸው ስህተቶች ዋነኛው ተደርጎ ይወሰዳል። ህወሓት እስካሁን ከፈፀማቸው ስህተቶች “የሻዕቢያ መንግስት ጦርነት አያውጅም” ማለቱ እንደነበረ ለዚህም ለገዥው ፓርቲም
    ሆነ ለሃገሪቱ ከፍተኛ ዋጋ ማስከፈሉ ዋነኛው ነው። “አይጥ ለሞቷ የድመትን አፍንጫ ትልሳለች” እንዲሉ ይህ ሃይል ኢትዮጵያን መውረር ራስን የማጥፋት ያህል እንደሆነ እንደሚገነዘብ የተወሰደው ግንዛቤ ምንጩ ሻዕቢያን በተጠየቅ የሚያምን ሃይል ተደርጎ በመወሰዱ ነው። ይሁን እንጂ ሁሉም እብሪተኛ ሃይሎች በስነ ተጠየቅ አያምኑም። ተነፃፃሪ መልካም ዕደሎችንና ስጋቶችን በትክክል የመገምገም ዝግጁነት ለራሳቸው በሚሰጡት ያልተገባ ዋጋ እንደተከለለባቸው ይኖራል። ሻዕቢያ ደርግ ለምንና በማን እንደተደመሰሰ በትክክለኛው እይታ ስለማይተነትነው ችግር ውስጥ ገብቶ እኛንም እንደሚያስቸግር ማሰብ ከባድ ነገር አልነበረም።ይኸኛውን እብሪተኛ ሃገራዊነት በመጠኑ
    በመነካካቴ ነው እንግዲህ እዚህ መድረክ ላይ የብዙ ሰዎችን ዛር ሊቀሰቀስ የቻለው። ይሁን እንጂ አጉል መንፈራገጥ ለመላላጥ ከመሆን አያልፍም። ሻዕቢያ ኢትዮጵያን ለመውረር ማሰቡ ባድመ የምትባል መንደር እንቅልፍ ስለነሳችው አልነበረም። በአንድ ነገር ግን እርግጠኛ ሆኖ ነበር ጦርነቱን ያወጀው። ኢትዮጵያን ከቻለ ብቻዋን ካልሆነለት ደግሞ ተያይዘው ማቅ ውስጥ እንዲገቡ ነበረ እቅዱ። እውነታው ግን ኤርትራ ኢትዮጵያን ይዛ ገደል ውስጥ ልትገባ የምትችልበት ዕድል ዜሮ ነው።ይህ ኢትዮጵያ የተለየች ስለሆነች ኤርትራም የተለየ ድክመት ስላለባት አይደለም። ዋናው ተጠየቅ ኤርትራ ትንሽ ሃገር ስለሆነች ነው። በታሪካዊ አጋጣሚዎች የተፈጠረውን መቃቃር ወደ ጎን
    ትተን በነፃ እእምሮ ጉዳዮን ስንመረምረው ኤርትራ ኢትዮጵያን ማንበርከክ የምትችልበት ምንም ሁኔታ ሊፈጠር አይችልም። ይህንን ስነ ተጠየቅ ወደጎን ብሎ ለመውረር ማሰብ በእብሪተኛ ሃገራዊነት ከመታወር ሌላ ምክንያት አላገኘሁለትም። በኔ እምነት ሻዕቢያ ባድመን ሲወር አሁን የሆነውን ሁኔታ እንደሚሆን ፍንጭ ቢኖረው ወረራው አይፈፅመም ነበር።ስለሆነም የጦርነቱ ውጤት አሁን ከሆነው ውጪ ሌላ ሊሆን አይችልም። እርግጥ ነው ኢትዮጵያ ጦርነቱን በጊዜው ባታስቆመው ኖሮ በአሁኗ ሰዓት የሻዕብያ መገኛ ሙዝየም ውስጥ ይሆን ነበር።

    የኤርትራ ምሁራን ሆይ: የኢሳያስን ድክመት ከጦርነቱ ውጤት ለማግኘት የምታደርጉት ጥረት ከንቱ ነው እላቸዋለሁ። ምክንያቱም የጦርነቱ ውጤት ይብስ እንደሆነ እንጂ ከዚሁ የተሻለ ሊሆን የሚችልበት እድል አልነበረም፣ የለም፣ ለወደፊትም አይኖርም። ይልቁንስ ለሃገራችሁ ኤርትራ ጠቃሚ የሚሆነው ጦርነቱን ምን ቢያቀብጣት ልትጀመር እንደበቃች ብትመረምሩ ነው። ምክንያቶቹና ያስከተሉትን ክፉ ውጤቶችም ለሃገራችሁ በሚጠቅም መንገድ ተንትኑ። መፍትሔውም ከጉያችሁ ስር እንደሆነ ያኔ ትረዳላችሁ።የማሕመድ ሳልሕ ወታደራዊ ውጊያተንታኝነት ፣የታላቁ ሃይለ የህግ ቴክኒካዊነት፣ የሳልሕ የኑስ ብልጣብልጥነት፣ የሳልሕ ጆሃር ለዘብተኝነት ወይም የአማኑኤል ሕድራት ውል አልባ የትግል ቅድሚያነትችግሩን ኣይፈታውም። ሰራይንና ሐያትን የተጓዙበት መንገድ ለመጓዝ ያልመረጠ ግለሰብም ሆነ የፖለቲካ ሃይል በሁለቱ ሃገራት ህዝቦች መካከል ሰላም ለማውረድ እየሰራ እንደሆነ ቢገልፅ ተራ መመፃደቅ ነው። ምንጩ ምንም ሊሆን ይችላል። መፍትሔው ግን የኤርትራን ወራሪነት ከመቀበል ይጀምራል።ይህ ሲሆን ነው ከኢትይጵያውያን ወንድም እህቶቻችሁ መግባባት የምትችሉት። ይህንን ስታደርጉ ነው ኤርትራንና ህዝቧን መታደግ የምትችሉት። ይህ ስታደርጉ ባየን ጊዜ ግማሽ መንገድ ድርስ ተጉዘን እንቀበላቸዋለን። ያኔ ቁስላችን ሽሮ ሰላም ይወርዳል። ያኔ ባድመም ሆኑ ዛላምበሳ ወዲህና ወዲያ የምንመላለስባቸው የሰላም ቦዮች ይሆናሉ።

    • sholla

      you are genius t. kifle, abo yimechih wendme, i love your persistant clear stand, if you were a candidate for a prime ministrship i would have given you my vote,man!!!! you are a survivore, my advice to the other party is what more do you guys want, this guy is so generous he have given you a good prescription to read this three times a day after food you might come to your senses,”የኤርትራ ምሁራን ሆይ: የኢሳያስን ድክመት ከጦርነቱ ውጤት ለማግኘት የምታደርጉት ጥረት ከንቱ ነው እላቸዋለሁ። ምክንያቱም የጦርነቱ ውጤት ይብስ እንደሆነ እንጂ ከዚሁ የተሻለ ሊሆን የሚችልበት እድል አልነበረም፣ የለም፣ ለወደፊትም አይኖርም። ይልቁንስ ለሃገራችሁ ኤርትራ ጠቃሚ የሚሆነው ጦርነቱን ምን ቢያቀብጣት ልትጀመር እንደበቃች ብትመረምሩ ነው። ምክንያቶቹና ያስከተሉትን ክፉ ውጤቶችም ለሃገራችሁ በሚጠቅም መንገድ ተንትኑ። መፍትሔውም ከጉያችሁ ስር እንደሆነ ያኔ ትረዳላችሁ።የማሕመድ ሳልሕ ወታደራዊ ውጊያተንታኝነት ፣የታላቁ ሃይለ የህግ ቴክኒካዊነት፣ የሳልሕ የኑስ ብልጣብልጥነት፣ የሳልሕ ጆሃር ለዘብተኝነት ወይም የአማኑኤል ሕድራት ውል አልባ የትግል ቅድሚያነትችግሩን ኣይፈታውም። ሰራይንና ሐያትን የተጓዙበት መንገድ ለመጓዝ ያልመረጠ ግለሰብም ሆነ የፖለቲካ ሃይል በሁለቱ ሃገራት ህዝቦች መካከል ሰላም ለማውረድ እየሰራ እንደሆነ ቢገልፅ ተራ መመፃደቅ ነው። ምንጩ ምንም ሊሆን ይችላል። መፍትሔው ግን የኤርትራን ወራሪነት ከመቀበል ይጀምራል።ይህ ሲሆን ነው ከኢትይጵያውያን ወንድም እህቶቻችሁ መግባባት የምትችሉት። ይህንን ስታደርጉ ነው ኤርትራንና ህዝቧን መታደግ የምትችሉት። ይህ ስታደርጉ ባየን ጊዜ ግማሽ መንገድ ድርስ ተጉዘን እንቀበላቸዋለን። ያኔ ቁስላችን ሽሮ ሰላም ይወርዳል። ያኔ ባድመም ሆኑ ዛላምበሳ ወዲህና ወዲያ የምንመላለስባቸው የሰላም ቦዮች ይሆናሉ።ato mahmud, i understand you are here with the expectation of winning a debate your way no matter what, some times best to accept defit with grace.

    • saay7

      Selamat awatistas:

      Here’s the short version of T.Kifle for those whose amharic has not progressed beyond “Lema begebeya”:)

      saay

      • T. Kifle

        Hi Sal,

        Yeah, you are at it. Actually, I am vindicated. “ያይጥ ምስክሯ ድንቢጥ” እንዲሉ : )

        • saay7

          Hey T. Kifle:

          Of course you are vindicated: when you are right about everything (and you don’t have to give any evidence for your accusations, all you have to do is change the subject), everything vindicates you.

          Back when you were writing in Tigrinya, you said “ክብሪ ኤርትራውያን ሕሉፈት ክበሪ ደቂሰባት ኣይኮነን። ካብ ማንም ሰፍን ትሕትን ዘይብል ክብሪ ኣለዎም። ሳልሕ የኑስን ሳልሕ ጆሃርን ተመሳሳሊ ሓሳብ ክፍንዉ ይዕዘብ.”

          http://awate.com/an-axe-that-breaks-down-ygs-diagnostic-fallacy/#comment-1576836167

          I translated this as “One sees Saleh Younis and Saleh Johar expressing similar [the Eritrean life is superior to all others] views” and then asked you to give approval to my translation, which you did. Since then (it has been a week) you were asked repeatedly by me and SGJ to support this statement, you couldn’t. An honorable man would admit a mistake and say, “I made a mistake” but you persist. A principled man who is mad at me would at least say, “well, nothing in Saleh Gadi Johar’s writing indicates that but I must insist Saleh Younis shares that view.” Or something. But nooooo.

          So, since you are very generous with your psychoanalysis of the Eritrean mind, let me offer a more modest psychoanalysis of the TPLF mind: you suffer from pomposity, and you are utterly incapable of admitting mistakes and you think the alternative to admitting mistakes is to excel in politeness which is a convenient cover for passive-aggressiveness.

          By the way, just so you don’t get shocked, you have lumped Serray and Hayat in the same basket. Hayat is a Weyane groupie from the “Eshi Goytay” school of thought (accredited by TPLF): many Eritreans have now (thanks to YG) accepted “eshi getaynet” as an ideology. Serray is different. He is a pragmatic Eritrean who is saying let’s accept Weyane for who they are: duplicitous and spiteful because that is the price to be paid to save Eritrea. Just preparing you in case you stumble upon his writings here and are tempted to go to your grudge-nursing sabbatical.

          saay

          • Eyob Medhane

            Sal,

            To look back and reflect is not becoming ‘Eshe Getaye’ groupie. I am glad, however that you eventually accepted that the great YG has some influence…..

          • saay7

            Eyobai:

            Whatever you say Eyobai, it is Sunday.

            But, in the interest of history, here’s first-hand account of Badme as told by an Eritrean (Habtegiorgis Abraha) who chaired an ELF committee to discuss “Badme” with a TPLF-committee chaired by the late Meles Zenawi. The posting first appeared as a comment in the Wikaw Iz article in reply to T.Kifle’s yet another revisionism.

            http://awate.com/wikaw-iz-without-general-uqbe/#comment-1338727172

            Confronted with facts, T.Kifle does what he does best…he went on a brief sabbatical and then came back with a new subject. I am not posting it here because I expect a reply from T.Kifle, but to give you an insight that many Eritreans refusal to embrace “Eshe Getayenet” is AFTER we looked back and reflected:

            (Begin Quote)

            Dear T. Kifle, ኣነ ካብቶም ናይ መወዳእታን 2ይትን ናይ ጅብሃ ሽምግለ መሪሖም ምስ መሪሕነት ህወሓት ዝሰርሑ ተጋደልቲ (ነበር) እየ – ምስታ ብወገን ህወሓት ብነፍሰሄር ፕረዚደንት መለስ ዜናዊ (ነብሶም ይምሓር) ዝመርሕዋ ዝነበረት ሽማግለ። ከምዚ ምስ ኣቦመንበር ውድበይ ዝነበረ ነፍስሄር ኣሕመድ ናስር ጊዜ ኪህልወኒ ብዙሕ፡ ኣዝዩ ብዙሕ ሃንቀውታ ዝነበረኒ፡ ምስ ፕረዚደንት መለስ ዜናዊ እውን ኣብ ጽቡቕ ጊዜ ምስኦም ጉዳይ ኣህዛብ ከዕልል እናተመነኹ፡ ካብቶም ጊዜ ዝሓጸሮም ሰባት እየ።

            እዚ ማዓስ ነይሩ?

            ካብ ድሕሪ 1ይ ውድባዊ ጉባአ ህወሓት ክሳብ መወዳእታ ኣዋርሕ ናይ 1979 ዓ.ም ነበረ። ንስሙ ናይ ሓባር ሽማግለ ኢያ ነይራ።

            ሀ) ካብ ዕለታት ሓደ ማዓልቲ፡ ኣብ ሰላሞ (ደቅ ዘርኡ) ዝብሃል ዓዲ፡ ኣብ ሞንጎ ኣኼባና ፥ “ባድመ ትግራይ ምዃና እንተዘይ ኣረጋገጽካልና እዚ ኣኼባ ኣይንቕጽሎን ኢና” ዝብል መኸተ ቐረቡ። ብወገን ሽማግሌና፡ “ነዚ ሓላፍነት’ዚ ኣይተመዘዝናን፤ ንስኻትኩም’ውን ትፈልጥዎ ኢዩ፤ ኣነ ከም ውልቀ ተጋዳላይ’ውን ናይ ዶብ ኣፍልጦ የብለይን፤ ናብ 2ቲኡ መሪሕነታት ኣብ እነቕርቦ ጸብጻብና ካኣ ከነስፍሮ ንኽእል ኢና” ክብል መለስኩ። መልሲ እንተዘይ ሃብካና ንመሪሕነትና ክንሕብር ኢና፣ ክሳብ መልሲ ዝመጸና ግን ኣኼባ ከነቋርጽ ኢና በሉ’ሞ፡ ዝቕርበሎም ዝደልይዎ መልሲ ስለ ዘይነበረንን ይትረፍ ኣብ ሞንጎ ኣኼባ ሽማግለ፡ ስራሕና ወዲእና ጸብጻብና ክሳብ እነረክብን እውን 2ቲአን መሪሕነታት ኣብ ውሽጢ ስራሕና ጣልቃ ኪኣትዋ ከምዘይብለን ኣመልከትኩ፤ ይኹንምበር ከምቲ ዝበልዎ ኣኼባ ኣቋረጹ።

            ካብ መሪሕነቶም መምርሒ ድሕሪ ምውሳድ፡ ኣኼባ ክንቅጽል ንኽእል ኢና፤ መልሲ ግን ብጽሑፍ ኣቕርበልና በሉ። እቲ ጣልቃ ግጉይ ምንባሩ እንደገና ኣመልኪተ፡ እቲ መልሲ ክፋል ናይቲ እንዘራረበሉ ዘሎና ነጥብታት ኢዩ፤ ብፍላይ ናይ ዶብ ሕቶ/ ባድሜ መልሲ ካብ ጠለብኩም ግን፡ ሕቶኹም ብጽሑፍ ሰሪዕኹም ቀርቡለይ በልኩ። እቲ መልሲውን ከምቲ ኣብ ላዕልሊ ኣስፊረዮ ዘሎኹ መሰረት ቀረብኩሎም።

            ስለምንታ’የ ነዚ ብጭልፋ ዘልዕል ዘሎኩ? ብሓደ ቓል ክሳብ’ቲ ጊዜ’ቲ – ድሮ’ቲ ብምስጢር ምስ መሪሕነት ህግ ንጀብሃ ኪወግኡ ዝኣተውዎ ውዲት – ጀብሃ ሕቶ ዶብ ኣልዒላ ኣይትፈልጥን ነይራ። ካልእ ይትረፍ ንካድራት ዝኸውን ውሽጣዊ መምርሒ’ውን ስለ ዘይነበረ፡ ዶብ ብዝምልከት ምንም መምርሒ ኣይነበረንን። መሪሕነት ህወ ካብ ነዊሕ ጊዜ ብጉዳይ ዶብን ምምሕዳርን ነቲ ኩነታት ኣቋሲላቶ ስለ ዝነበረት ግን፡ መሪሕነት ጀብሃ ዕላዊ ብዘይኰነ መምርሒ፡ ብጉዳይ ዶብ፡ ዓድታትን እቲ ሕንጻጽ ዶብን ብዝምልከት፡ ብወገና ነቲ 2ይ ደረጃ ናይቲ ስምምዕ ዝምልከት ጥዑይ ምቅርራባት ንምግባር ኪሕግዝ መታን ሓፈሻዊ መጽናዕቲ ከካይድ ተወሳኺ ዕማም ሂባትኒ ነይራ። ንመሪሕነት ህወ ግን ካርታኣ ዳርጋ መሰታኣ ኢዩ ነይሩ። ክንደይኳ ጽቡቕ፤ ግን ኣብ ጊዜ ቃልሲ ሽፋን መጋራጨዊ ምኽንያትን ውዲት መስርዒን ኪኸውን ኣይነበሮን።

            ስለ እውነቱ፡ ጉዳይ ዶብ ካብ መትከልን ዕላማን ወጻኢ፡ ድሕሪ’ቲ ኩሉ ውዲት’ውን፣ ድሕሪ ነጻነት ኤርትራ’ውን ዘይካኣልዎ፣ ብዙሕ ጻዕርን ትዕግስትን ዘድልዮ ተግባራዊ ሽግራት ነይርዎ። ባድመን ከባቢኣን 3 ጊዜ (ጊዜ ደጀዝማች ፋይቱንጋ፣ ጊዜ ደጀዝማች ገብረቃል፣ ጊዜ ራእሲ መንገሻ)፣ ብዓሰብን ከባቢኣን ካኣ (ጊዜ ደርግ)፣ ናብ ውሽጢ ኤርትራ ዝተኣታቶ ናይ ምምሕዳር ነጥብታት ስለ ዝነበሮ፡ ኣብ ርእሲ’ዚ እቲ ካርታ ህወሓት እውን ሓድሽ ወሰናስን ናይ ትግራይ ሓንጺጹ ስለ ዝነበረ ነቲ ግርጭት ንምብድሁ ቀሊል ኣይምኰነን። ብርግጽ ኣብ’ቲ ጊዜ’ቲ ብወሰናስን ኤርትራን ኢትዮጵያን ዘቲኻን ብተግባር ዘስርሕ ናይ ምምሕዳር መደባት ንምቕራብን ከቢድ ሕቶ ኢዩ ነይሩ። ስለ ዝኸብድ ግን ናብ ውዲትን ኲናትን ዘእቱ ምኽንያት ፍጹም ምርጫን ቦትኡን ኣይኰነን/ ኣይነበረን።

            ስለዚ ኣቋራጭ መፍትሒ ናይ ወሓለታት ኣርኪቡ! መሪሕነት ህወ፡ ካብ መሪሕነት ህግ ዝደልይዎ ውዱእ መልሲ (ባድመን ከባቢኣን ንህወሓት ምርካብ) ረኸቡ። ብድሕሪኡ ግርጭት ብግቡእ ኪውገን ግዲኦም ኪገብሩ ይትረፍ፡ ናብ ናይ ቅንጸላ ውሽጣዊ ጉዳይ ህዝቢ ኤርትራ ምእታው’ውን ኣይዓጠጦምን። ምኽንያቱ እቲ ውዲት ኣውራ ኣውራ ነቲ ብጊዜኡ ሰጥ ኢልካ ኪብዳህ ዝነበሮ ክብደት ናይቲ ናይ ዶብ ግርጭት ዘሐንኩል ናይ ከድዓት ሜላ ኢዩ ነይሩ። ብኡ ንብኡ ካኣ ሓቢሮም ናብ ቀንዲ ዕላማኦም – ስልጣን ናይ ምብሓት ሕማሞም – ኣቶው። ብዝላዓለ ደረጅኡ ካኣ ጀብሃ ዘይኰነትስ፡ ህዝቢ ኤርትራ ግዳይ ኰነ። መፍትሒ ስለ ዘይተገብረሉ ካኣ ደጊሞም እውን ኣድመይዎ (1986 – 2000)፤ ብፍላጥ ወይ ብዘይ ፍላጥ ካኣ ነዚ ናይ ሕጂ ኣብ ውሽጢ ኣህዛብ ኤርትራን ኢትዮጵያን ኣዝዩ ዓቢ ዝኰነ ሽግር ዝፈጠረ ጸረ 2ቲኡ ኣህዛብ ዘትከለ፡ ልዕሲ ሰላምን ቅሳነትን ብልጽግናን ኣህዛብ ኤርትራን ኢትዮጵያን ጉጅላዊ ረብሓታቱ ዝዓጠጦ ነናብ ነብሱ ዝተመልሰ ውዲት ኮነ።

            ለ) ኣብ ምሕዝነት ዝምልከትውን፡ ጀብሃ ኣብ ልዕሊ ናይ ውድባት ኢትዮጵያ ምርጫን ወገንን ኣይነበራን። ንኹሉ ጸረ ፋሽስታዊ ስርዓት ደርግ ዝልዓል ንዝነበረ ውድባት ተተባብዕ ነይራ። ሓደ ካብቶም ምስ ጀብሃ ጽቡቅ ምሕዝነት ዝነበሮ ውድብ TLF ምንባሩ ካብ ርኽክባቱ ዝርድኣኒ ነገር ነይሩ። ምኽንያቱ ኣብ 1976 ዓ.ም ውድባዊ መደበይ ኣብ ኣከለጉዛይ ስለ ዝነበረ ብዛዕባ ምንቅስቓሳቶም (ዓሲምባን ከባቢ ዓድግራትን) ክፈልጥ እኽእል ነይረ። እቲ ናይ መጀመሪያ ውድብ ናይ ህዝቢ ትግራይ ስለ ዝነበረ፡ ጅብሃ መጀመሪያ ዝምድናኣ ምስ TLF ምስራዓ ታሪኻዊ ናይ ጊዜ ሕቶ ነይሩ። ወከልቱ ኣብ 2ይ ሃገራዊ ጉባኤውን ዝተሳተፉ ይመስለኒ።

            TLFን TPLFን ኣብ ግርጭት ምስ ኣተዉ፡ ጀብሃ ክትሽምግሎም ኣብ ዝገበረቶ ቅኑዕ ፈተነ፡ ብሰንኪ ግጉይ ኣዳህላሊ ናይ መጥቃዕቲ ስጉምቲ ናይ ህወሓት (TPLF) ዕድል ኣይገበረትን፤ ብዓቢኡ ካኣ TLF ብ TPLF ተቐንጸለት። እዚ በቲ 1ይ ኣቐዲመ ዝጠቐስክዎ ሽማግለ ጀብሃ ዝተገብረ ፈተነ ነበረ። ብስዉእ ተጋ/ ፍስሃየ ገብረሚካኤል፡ ኣባል ሰውራዊ ባይቶ (መሪሕነት ተሓኤ) ዝተመርሐ ሽምግልና ነይሩ።

            እዚ ቅንጸላ ተገይሩ ከብቅዕ ግን፡ መሪሕነት ተሓኤ፡ ሚዛናን ቅሬታኣን ኣምቢራ፣ ከም ሽግር ካኣ ውሽጣዊ ጉዳይ ትግራይ/ ኢትዮጵያ ምኳኑ ብምእማን፡ ናይ ቃልሲ ዝምድናኣ ምስ ህወሓት ከምቲ ዝነበሮ ኪቕጽልን ኪምሓየሽን ጻዕርታት ወሰደት። ስለምንታይ’የ እዚ ዝጠቅስ ዘሎኹ፡ ተሓኤ ኣብ ርእሲ’ታ ብነዊሕ ዝተዛመደታ ውድብ ዝተኻየደ ቅንጸላ’ውን ምንም ጣልቃ ከይኣተወት ጸረ ፋሽስታዊ ስርዓት ደርግ ብሓላፍነት ቃልሲ ተተባብዕ ምንባራ ንምብራህ ኢዩ። ምስ EDU፣ EPRP ዝነበረ ዝምድናታት እውን በዚ መልክዕ ዝተርርዐ ኢዩ ነይሩ። ኣነ ኣብ ክንዲ መሪሕነት ተሓኤ ክምልስ ሓላፍነት የብለይን፤ አሰረይ ዝሓለፎ፣ እፈልጦ’የ ዝብሎ፣ ጥራሕ’የ ዘልዕል ዘሎኹ።

            ናብ ዝርዝር ምእታውኳ እንተዘየድለየ፡ ምስ EPRP ዝነበረ ዝምድና ኣቐዲሙ ዝተሰርሓሉን ኣብ ከተማታት ኢትዮጵያ ናይ ሓባር መደባት ዝኣሳሰሮ ተግባራዊ ባይታ ዝነበሮን ኢዩ። TPLF ናብ ሜዳ ቃልሲ ክትጽምበር ከላ ግን ፍርቂ ነብሳ ነጸብራቕ ህ.ሓ(ህግ) ኰይና ኢያ ኣትያ። ይኹን ‘ምበር፡ ተሓኤ ጽቡቕ ዝምድና ኢያ ኣሚታ። TPLF ኣብ ዝሓለፈቶ ቦታ ኣብ ልዕሊ ጀብሃ ተኣፋፊት ኢያ ነይራ።

            TPLF ምስ ኣብ ኣድያቦ ዝነበረ ኤትርራዊ ትሓልፍያ ነበረት። ንምግላጹ ዘጸግም ሽግር ነይሩዋ። ከይወግሐ ካብ ኣብ ልዕሊ ፋሽታዊ ደርግ ዝቐንዕ ብረት፡ ኣብ ልዕሊ ህዝቢ ኤርትራን ናይ ቃልሲ ውድባት ኢትዮጵያን ዝቐንዕ ይበዝህ ነበረ። ኣብ ኣድያቦ ናብ ጅብሃ ዝተሰርዐ ሚሊሻ ስለ ዝነበረ፣ ብውድባዊ ወተሃደራዊ ዲሲፕሊኑ ጌና ዘየልተዘመ ስለ ዝነበረን፣ ሽዑ ወያኔ ዓቕሚ ኢዱውን ስለዝነበረትን፣ ምስኦም ትጓነጽሞ፡ ባዕላ ብዝፈጠረቶ ሽግራት ናብ ጀብሃ ተጸግዖ ነበረት።

            ቅድሚ 1ይ ውድባዊ ጉባኤ ህወ ኣብ ሞንጎ መሪሕነታት ተሓኤን ህወሓትን ኣብ ዝተገብረ ርክብ፡ ብወገና ዝቐርብ ዝነበረ ነጥብታት ኣብ ናይ ህዝቢ ስርርዕን ሚሊሽያን ነበረ። (ኣባል ናይታ ናይ ዘተ ሽማግለ’የ ነይረ) ብወገን ህወ ኣባላት መሪሕነት፥ ተጋ/ በሪሁን ተጋ/ ስየን ተጋ/ መስፍንን ነበሩ። እምብኣር፡ ክሳብ ክንደይ ዘዕግቦም ነይሩ ኣይፈልጥን፤ ግን ብስምምዕ ተወዲኡ፣ ናይ ሓባር መደባት ተገይሩ፣ ድሕሪ ጉባኤኦም ነቲ መደባት ናብ ዝለዓለ ደረጃኡ እተሰጋግር ናይ ሓባር ሽማግለ ክትወጽእ ተፈራሪሞምን ብሓባር ናይ ዝተበጽሐ ኣዋጅ ቅዳሕ ሒዞምን ብጽቡቕ መንፈስ ተፋነዉ።

            ቀጺሉ፡ ብወገን ጅብሃ ኣዋጅ ኪዝርጋሕን መሪሕነት ወይኔ ኣዋጅ ክትቀድድን ከምዘይትፈልጦ ጐስጓስ ከተካይድን ጉባኤኣ ኣርከበ። ካብቲ ዝተበጽሐ ስምምዕ፡ 2ልተ ቀንዲ ነጥብታት፦ 1ይ ደረጃ ጽቡቅ ባይታ ናይ ምሕዝነት ምጥጣሕ፤ 2ይ ደረጃ ካኣ 2ቲኡ ውድባት ኣብ ኤርትራ ይኹን ኣብ ትግራይ ናይ ስርርዕን ምምሕዳርን ጉዳይ ክምልስ (ኣጻሓሕፋይ ትኽክል ቃላት ዘይዝክር ኪኸውን ይኽእል ኢዩ)። ዳርጋ ድሕሪ ናይ ሓደ ዓመት ናይ ሓባር ስራሓት፡ እታ ዝተመዘት ሽማግለ ጸብጻባ ብሓባር ከየቕረበት፡ ብወገን ወያኔ ዝነበረት ክፋል ሽማግለ ከይሓበረት ሃንደበት ኣንሰሓበት። ህወሓት ቀጺላ ናብ ወተሃደራዊ ምፍትታን ኣተወት።

            ሐ) እዚ ኣብ ከመይ ዝበለ ኩነታት ነይሩ?

            ሐ.1) ስብሓት ኤፍረም ናብ ወያኔ ተላኢኹ ብምስጢር (ክሳብ ሎሚ ሚስጢር) መሪሕነታት ህግን ህወሓትን ጀብሃ ንምቕንጻል ናይ ውዲት ውዕል ዝኣተውሉ፣

            ሐ.2) መሪሕነት ጀብሃ ናብ ሶቭየት ሕብረት ዝገበረቶ መገሻታት ምኽንያት ብምግባር፡ መንግስቲ ሳዑዲ ዓረብ ኣንጻር ተሓኤ ተጻብኦታት ዝሰራዓትሉ፤ መንግስቲ ሱዳን ካኣ ቀጥታ መሳርሒ ናይቲ ተጻብኦታት ዝነበረትሉ ጊዜ፣

            ሐ.3) መሪሕነት ህግ ምስ ደርግ ናይ ውዲት ሰነዳት ዝተለዋወጠትሉ (ኣብ ልዕሊቲ ከም ርኽክብ ብወግዒ ዝተዘርግሐ ሓብሬታ፡ ተወሳኺ 11 ገጽ ምስጡር ሰነድ)፣

            ሐ.4) ኣብቲ ጊዜቲ መሪሕነታት ተሓኤን ህግሓኤን ብዛዕባ ዘተ ምስ ፋሽታዊ ስርዓት ደርግ ዝምልከት ናይ ዘተ ርኽክብ፣ እዚ ዘተዚ ብብሩህ ተዓጻጻፊ ውዲት ኢዩ ነይሩ (ሐ.1)፣

            ሐ.5) መገሻታት መሪሕነት ተሓኤ ናብ ሶቭየት ሕብረት፣

            ከም ተሞኩሮ ኣተሓሒዝካ ኪርአ እንከሎ፡ እቲ ናይ ሶቭየት ሕብረት ጻዊዕታት’ውን መዳህለሊ ውዲት ኢዩ ነይሩ ክትብሎ
            ዘኽእል ኢዩ፤ ምኽንያቱ፡ ሶቭየት ሕብረት ምስ ደርጊ ኰይና ነጻ ከተማታትናን ህዝብናን ዝወቕዐት ኢያ፤ ፖሊትካዊ መርገጽ ጥራሕ ኣይነበረን። ብ1977 ዓ.ም ኣብ ሮማ ቆንስል ሶቭየት ሕብረት ኰይኑ ዘዛራረበና ሶቭየታዊ ኣብ ልዕሊ ሰውራ ኤርትራ ዝነበሮ ጽልኢ ብነድሪ ስለ ዝገልጽ ዝነበረ ኣነውን ነገር ናይ ሰብ ኣብዘይዓቕመይ ነደርኩ። እቲ ተስፋ ዘቊርጽ ዝነበረ መርገጹ ካብ ሓበሬታ ምሕጻር መሲሉና ሃለውለው በልና (ምስ ተጋ/ጅምዕ በኺት)። ኣብ መጨረስትኡ ግን፡ “ኣብ 2ይ ኲናት ዓለም ኣብ ሓደ ማዓልቲ ክንድቲ ቁጽሪ ህዝብኹም ከሲርና ኢና፤ . . . “ ድሕሪ ምባል ቤት ጽሕፈቱ ክንገድፈሉ ነገረና።

            ሐ.6) ብርግጽ ተሓኤ ኣብ ውሽጣዊ ግርጭታት ነይራ፤ ንእሽቶ እውን ኣይነበረን። እቲ ግርጭታት ካኣ ጉዕዞ ልዑል ምዕባሌታታ እትሰርዓሉ፣ ኩሉ ጊዜ ምስኣ ዝነብር ዝነበረ፡ መግለጺ ውሽጣዊ ባህርያታ፣ ኩሉ ጊዜ ካኣ ብዝሓሸን ዝለዓለን ናይ ለውጢ ውጽኢት እተመዝግበሉ ዝነበረት መስርሕ፣ ንምቁጽጻሩ ካብ ማንም መድረኻት ንላዕሊ ካብ ሕሉፍ ተሞኲሮታታ ዝተማህረትሉን ብዝላዓለ ደረጃ ዝተቐረበትሉን መድረኽ፣ ‘ሞ ናብ ዝለዓለ ሃገራዊ ሓላፍነት እትሰጋገረሉ ዝነበረት እዋን ኢዩ ነይሩ። ኣብቲ መድረኽቲ ውሽጣዊ ቃልስታታ ልሙድን ብዝለዓለ ደረጃ ኣብ ትሕቲ ቁጽጽራን ዝነበረ ኢዩ ነይሩ። ብኣንጻሩ እኳድኣ ኣብቲ ፍሉይ መድረኽቲ ኣብ ርእሴኣ ተጻብኦታት ካብ ግዳምን ውሽጥን ኪጠማጠምዋ ምጉያዮም ክሳብ ክንደይ ዘፍርሖም ምዕባለ ኣብ ጉዕዞ ምንባሩ ሓባሪ ኢዩ።

            ሓው ተኽለ ውድቀታ ተሓኤ ብውሽጣ ጥራሕ ምንባሩ ዝተኸስተሎም ካበየናይ ኩርናዕ ናይ ቃልሲ ስለ ዝተበገሱ ኢዩ? ዋላውን ኣብ ሜዳኣ ኣብ መዛግባ ኰይና ምስ ሽግራታ ክትመናጨት ኣይከኣልን ነይሩ? ንTLF፣ EDU፣ EPRP ብሓይልና ሓግሒግና ኣባረርናየን ኪብሃል ጸኒሑ፡ ጀብሃ ግን ብውሽጣ እምበር እዚ ኩሉ ውዲታትሲ ኣይምዓጀባን ድዩ ዝብሃል ዘሎ፤ ካበየናይ ናይ ሓይሊ መምዘኒ መርትዖኸ ይብገስ? ሓይሊ ጀብሃን ዝነበረ ናይ ውሽጣ ሽግራትን ዝፈልጡ ይመስሉ ኣሎውሞ፡ ቤዛ’ባ ሓበሬታ!

            እዚ ኩሉ ውዲታት ብሓባር ወይ ብተናጸል፡ ኣብ ልዕሊ ተሓኤ ብሕሱም ዝዓጠቐ ኢዩ ነይሩ። ሓንቲ ካብ ስግኣታቱ ካኣ እቲ ኣብ ውሽጢ ተሓኤ ዝነበረ ግርጭታትን ምዕባሌኡን ኢያ ነይራ።

            እዞም 2 መሪሕነታት ካብ ሃገራዊን ህዝባዊን ዕላማታት ወጻኢ ብዘብለጭልጭ ፕሮፖጋንዳታት እናተሸፈኑ፡ ጉጅላዊ ዕላማታቶም ዝፈለጡን ሜላታቶም ከይወግሐ ዝሰርዑን ንምርግጋጹ ካኣ ኣሎ ዝብሃል ዝኰነ ኪብዝበዝ ዚኽእል ሕማማት እናላዓዓሉ ን2ቲኡ ኣህዛብ መሳሪሒ ጉጅላዊ ጥቕምታቶም ዝገበሩን ኢዮም።

            ብርግጽ ኣብ ስምዒታት ውድባት ኤርትራ፡ (‘ጠባቦች’፣ ‘ተገንጣዮች’፣ … ዝብል ፕሮፖጋንዳ ናይ ኢትዮጵያ መንግስታት ኣብ ሕልናታቱ ስክፍታታት ዝፈጥረሉ ዝነበረ ጉዳይ ኢዩ) እቲ ኣብ ልዕሊ ውድባት ትግራይ ዝልዓል ዝነበረ ናይ ‘ጠባብ ቢሄርትነት’ ፕሮፖጋንዳ እውን ከምኡ። ንዓይ ከም ውልቀ ተጋዳላይ ኣብ ሕልናታተይ ብዙሕ ስክፍታታት የሕድረለይ ነይሩ። ነቲ ዝግበር ዝነበረ ዝምድናታት ግን ብምንም ዓይነት ዝትንክፍ ኣይነበረን። ነዚ ስምዒታትዚ ህወሓት ከምዚ ሓው ክፍለ ዝብልዎ ዘሎዉ ኣብ ውድባት ኤርትራ የንጸባርቕ ምንባሩ፡ ንኣቃላልሳ ህዝቢ ትግራይ ሓጋዚ ምንባሩ ‘ምበር ክሳብ ሎሚ ብቒም ኪኰማሳዕ ዘሎዎ ነገር ኣይብሎን። ብዝተረፈ ሓው ክፍለ፡ እቲ ናይ ትግራይ ምግንጻል ‘ጠባብ ቢሄርትነት’ ተኣሪሙ እንተዘይኰይኑ፡ ሎሚ ወያኔ ኣብ ኣዲስ ኣበባ ስልጣን ኢትዮጵያ ምውናና እንታይ መግለጺ ይህልዎ ከብርሁልና’ዶ ይኽእሉ?

            ንምድምዳሙ፡ ካብ ነብሳ ድዩ ዝነቅል ነይሩ ወይስ ካብቲ ካብ መሪሕነት ህግ ዝነበራ ጽልዋታት፡ ድሒሩ ካብ ዝተመስከረ ካኣ ክሳብ ኣብ ውሽጣዊ ጉዳይ ህዝቢ ኤርትራውን ንነብሳ ብውዲት ጣልቃ ክትኣቱ ዝፈቐደት፡ ሽግር ናይ ዝምድና፡ ብሓቂ መሪሕነት ህወሓት ኢያ ነይራ።

            መ) መዘኻኸሪ

            መ.1) እሞ ሕጂ’ውን እቲ ናይ ምስናድ ግደ ናባኹም ዓዋተ ቲም
            – ስለዚ ምስ ኣባል ፈ.ሽ ተሓኤ ነበር ሓው ኢብራሂም መ. ዓሊ ቃለ መሕትት ምክያድ ኣዝዩ ኣድላዪ ኰይኑ ይስምዓኒ።

            መ.2) ንዘላቒ ባህግታት ኣህዛብ ቀርኒ ኣፍሪቃ ዝኸውን ባይታታት ምርዕራዕ . . . . . . !

            መ.3) ኣብ ሞንጎ ኤርትራን ኢትዮጵያን ዘሎ ግርጭት ንምፍታሕ ኣህዛብ 2’ቲኡ ሃገራት ግዴኦም ኪገብርሉ ዘኽእል ባይታ ንምፍጣር ብወገነይ ተገዳስነተይ እናገለጽኩ ምትብባዕ ኪግበረሉ አማሕጽን

            (End Quote)

          • Eyob Medhane

            Sal,

            I you are right, it’s Sunday, ‘Senbet’. I have to make you laugh… It’s my duty….

            This is Bereket…I find it his ‘staying in America’ narration, funny. (About 7 minutes and some change) enjoy…. 🙂

            http://www.ethiopian.tv/filfilu-ethiopian-comedy-police-program/

          • saay7

            Eyobai:

            Very, very funny. Particularly the line “ባስር ብር የትቀበረ ሰውየ አስር ሺ ብር ከፍየ የማስወጣው…ሉሲ ነው?” Classic! I may find a way to use it as a metaphor in my debate with T. Kifle 🙂

            Thanks!
            saay

          • Mahmud Saleh

            Saay& T.Kifle
            T.Kifle, why do you switch to Amharic, anyway, when you could obviously reply in ENGLISH? That’s fine though. Actually, I’ve just seen it and I’m heading to a fair with the kids. SAAy7 has already caught you, he is watching you like a hawk. Anyway, I’ll see if a reply is needed. My neighbor balachew may be needed for translation assistance.

          • Mahmud Saleh

            T.Kife መልካም ኣሁድm

            I haven’t read all of your reply, but the fact that you suddenly switched to Amharic reinforces my argument that Tigray elite are still bent on buying acceptance by the Ethiopian public at the expense of Eritrea. Amharic is beautiful and is frequented here on this forum, but the dialogue was in English, and may be in Tigrigna since the subjects are Eritreans and Tegaru. I have yet to see anyone from central, South, east, or west of Ethiopia who is hell bent in tarnishing Eritreans’ culture and identity, who falsely accuse Eritreans of displaying attitudes of “superiority.” Political grudges are different. After all most Eritreans lived in Addis and other Awrajas far from Tigray; and they had peaceful coexistence with their neighbors. They have positive memories of their neighbors helping them out when the small Tigray elite found an excuse to punish them by stripping them from their belongings and rights. Our problem is this small Tigray-elite circle who want to get Eritreans “straight” while the power and resources of Ethiopia are in their disposal. That’s the problem, mixed with old sentiments of rivalry, added to manufactured or perceived ” Eritrean superiority.” Get over it buddy, be constructive.

          • T. Kifle

            Selamat Sal,

            Though Serray could explain his position, my understanding of him is that IA ignited the war as a pretext for shelving the constitution. I know his dread for anything Ethiopian but that’s not a problem in itself.

            Speaking of Weynaes being “duplicitous and spiteful”, you have been unmistakeably and consistently saying it for years. and I am used to it.

          • saay7

            Selamat T. Kifle:

            Let me get this straight: are you saying that for the long-term peaceful co-existence between Eritrea and Ethiopia, if Eritreans have “dread for anything Ethiopian” it is not a problem; but to have doubts that “IA ignited the war” is a problem?

            Hade beleley.

            There is also the issue that my characterization of “duplicitous and spiteful” applies to a political organization while your “irreparably damaged” applies to the elite of an entire generation of Eritreans.

            Klte beleley.

            You have accused me and SGJ of harboring fascistic views (Eritrean life is more precious than any other) for which you refuse to provide evidence or withdraw. You just think that if you refuse to address it, eventually, it will be forgotten.

            Seleste beleley.

            saay

          • T. Kifle

            Selamat Sal,

            1. Yeah, I am saying just that. Serray tends to be left alone. The dread he often used to air albeit unscrupulously is harmless and could die out through time with some exposure of positive experiences
            2.My characterization of the mainstream elites is because it’s functionally hard to separate them from the PFDJites that drained every good energy we had. They have been the mouthpiece of a war monger and still many of them reluctant to some clean out of the mess they have been in.
            3. Even I didn’t accuse Haile Drue of harbouring “fascist views”. That’s you interpretation. I provided his quote to show the height of arrogance that the PFDJites have reached. As to the two Salehs, for you I have provided the link. You are saying that that doesn’t go with Drue’s quote. I say it actually fits in well with it. It’s not even only you. I have read many similar comments in this forum and elsewhere.

          • saay7

            Selamat T.Kifle

            (hansab hansab engineer Rodab:)

            1. “Dread for anything Ethiopian” or “dread for anything Eritrean” is more of a hazard for people-to-people relationship than accepting that “IA ignited the war.” Your argument is as untenable as me saying that all Ethiopians accepting “Haile Selasse annexed Eritrea” or “Derg cluster-bombed Eritrea” as precondition to normalization of relationship in 1991. This is really Weyane-wish-list masquerading as Ethiopian national security requirement.

            2. I don’t know which definition you are using by “mainstream elite” but in pol sci, there are political elite, economic elite, social elite: it is a small group of people who exercise influence and authority over a larger group of people. So we can stop our Kholel, who do you have in mind in Eritrea?

            3. I don’t know how clearer I can be here beyond quoting your own words back to you (with context) and then translating it to English (with your approval.) Now, all you have to do is show in the link you keep saying that you provided, a sentence, a paragraph that supports your claim. It is that simple. How hard can it be to do two commands: copy/paste and then type: here it is.

            saay

          • Rodab

            Sal & T Kifle,
            About that accusation of H.E. SaleH & Sal holding a view of Eritrean lives being superior or something, couldn’t you all settle that? Its getting over-repetitious to the point it is becoming irritating.

            T. Kifle,
            Would it kill you to say you misspoke?

            Sal,
            You give people the opportunity to correct statements. But you don’t arm-twist. Please move on.

            Sorry if I sounded impolite.

          • Abinet

            Rodab
            Ignore everybody . So many good games to watch . AC Milan is leading 3-1. At the half.
            Enjoy

      • Asmerom

        Saay
        I wonder why in your debate you always use some words like woyanie , arbeghna , Zeraf , ghedie …etc while referring the other side. is it your way of belittling others or is there any other reason ?
        Like AH ,SJ , Haile TG , Semere and all others debate with respect to others but yours there is something to it sorry to say that it makes your debate childish .

        • dave

          Selam Asmerom

          That’s Saay for you, don’t compere him with other Awatistas everyone has own style, and to me I don’t see it as a childish but humorous.
          sorry for jumping

          • saay7

            Selamat Asmerom:

            Yeah, what Dave said:)

            saay

          • Asmerom

            SAAY
            I’m not surprised of your response there is a place to be humor and a place for serious debate but attaching label to debaters shows ur weakness a way to take attention from the issue on debate and that’s why I called it childish . I might find you before you do
            Thanks

          • saay7

            Asmerom:

            You will find me? Say Welahi!:)

            It’s a joke…

            The premise is: “what would happen if the tough guy from the movie ‘Taken’ was giving his threats about how he has specific killing skills but the person on the other end is the typical fearless Somali? How would the Somali react?

            Its joke but it is not funny if I have to explain it.

            saay

      • Shum

        Thank you, thank you, thank you! That is exactly the gist of T Kifle and others like him on this forum. I was thinking the EXACT same phrase. You should have a gif that constantly prostrates up and down saying “eshi getaye”. And you are on the money about the colonial Italian bull crap being a polite way of saying banda. This is what gets me about this line of discussion. There’s no discussion or debate to be had because there is no educational or scholarly reference point. It’s just people with an ax to grind.

        My main issue with this is it takes away from this forum from being a standout when compared to other forums where Habeshas duel it out in the most ugliest form. But as long as T. Kifle and the likes are here, then what can you do?

    • haileTG

      Selamat T Kifle,

      Although it could be considered a good thing for us to learn about your world view as far as the Ethio-Eritrea hostilities are concerned, it falls short of meeting the bare minimum requirement for opening doors for rapprochement between the two fraternal people.

      Let me take you down memory lane and remind you what Col. Mengistu said on the eve of withdrawing from the then Tigray province;

      “Tigray is irrelevant and a drain on the economy of the rest of Ethiopia. Its combined annual productivity wouldn’t even cover the cost of classroom chalk (Temenie) in Tigrayan schools. Let them have their province and we’ll see them where they will get to.”

      Such of an arrogant put down by an arrogant dictator of the time. Tigray’s woos at the time didn’t deter Tigrayans from making a comeback one way or another. In other words Mengistu was trying to use Tigray’s problems at the time, as a bargaining chip to advance his interests.

      It is rather short sighted of you that you felt Eritrea’s current problems are an opportune bargaining chip to push ideas that are not natural or acceptable to Eritreans.

      You state that ” መፍትሔው ግን የኤርትራን ወራሪነት ከመቀበል ይጀምራል።ይህ ሲሆን ነው ከኢትይጵያውያን ወንድም እህቶቻችሁ መግባባት የምትችሉት። ይህንን ስታደርጉ ነው ኤርትራንና ህዝቧን መታደግ የምትችሉት። ይህ ስታደርጉ ባየን ጊዜ ግማሽ መንገድ ድርስ ተጉዘን እንቀበላቸዋለን። ያኔ ቁስላችን ሽሮ ሰላም ይወርዳል። ያኔ ባድመም ሆኑ ዛላምበሳ ወዲህና ወዲያ የምንመላለስባቸው የሰላምና የልማት ቦዮች ይሆናሉ።”

      Eritreans refer to the period of 1998 – 2000 as “TPLF worar or invasion” and Ethiopians refer it as “Shaebia aggression”. You yourself spent the most of your paragraph above to describe how the problem festered from decades ago. Hence, the truth is likely half way between those two extreme points of view. Your attempt to exact untenable outcome that even the Ethiopian government didn’t demand “that Eritrea accept the claim that it is the invading party” seems to be born out of the wrong headed expectation that more and greater suffering endured by Eritreans would ultimately break their resolve. It seems you have defeated all those organizations you listed above, including IA and that sense of victory has given you the wrong impression that you can defeat Eritrea too. Impossible my friend. This is why we seek a break through, so as to avert needless wast of opportunity.

      As far as the war 1998 – 2000 is concerned:

      – The ruling was unfavorable to you and refused to abide by it

      – Your assertion that Eritrea mounted a pre-determined invasion was dealt by the EECC and told you that Eritrea was wrong to attack the town of Badem according to international law but Ethiopia has played as much destructive role in expanding the war and making it spread all across the border areas. You are refusing to accept the finding and insisting Eritrea must accept your version.

      – As far as combat in 1998 – 2000, Eritrea has demonstrated its capacity to withstand the conflict economically, politically and militarily. There was absolutely nothing Ethiopia could have done more short of going broke. Your success only came from 2001 – present because IA has successfully managed to achieve what you guys learned was impossible by directly confronting Eritreans. From 2001, IA managed to decimate patriotic Eritreans, cordoned off the youth in remote no mans lands, refused the population the right to work, move or express any opposition and used hoards of foreign born sympathizers (Ethiopia or western born) to drawn their voices out and emasculate them to the point of the current mass killings of Eritreans.

      It is indeed very disturbing that you even ventured to use our current ordeals as a bargaining chip to drive your assertions that were defeated militarily and legally. We do wish to open spaces for dialog and rapprochement, but have no reason to wave the white flag. IA will be dealt with one way or the other, but Eritrea and Eritreans will still be there for generations to come. The current achievements of Ethiopia in many spheres shouldn’t lull you into believing that people would readily give up their heritage, sense of right and wrong, and what they hold to be true in order to be part of your success. Harmony is needed for its sake and for good to triumph over evil. Harmony isn’t sought to buy economic benefits.

      Our problem isn’t because we didn’t accept Ethiopia’s terms but because we have unjust system of governance of the worst kind. If it was to be the first (i.e. not accepting Ethiopia’s terms), you are inadvertently admitting to having a hand in the current ordeals faced by Eritreans. I wouldn’t wish to even think that because if that was ever the case, the bad blood will NEVER wash off from now to eternity.

      If a legitimate government in Eritrea accepts that “Eritrea invaded Ethiopia” and decides that the EEBC decision should be annulled or changed or adjusted, that is fine and good. But to ask for such public perception as a result of the current ordeals of Eritreans when you say “Your problems can only be solved when….” is really unfortunate. Again, the only stick you can make that happen is indirectly via the brutalities of IA. Other than that Ethiopia has 0 capability to assert its will on Eritrea physically. As I said before, it may force the oust of the regime but very improbable that it would contemplate the possibility of trying to hold on to an extremely hostile place that would plunge the entire region into the deep ends of turmoil.

      Ethiopia didn’t demand Eritreans accept its version and narrative of the conflict, nor did it claim it has a role to play in the current Eritrean crisis. It is understandable that you have rejected rule of law in discharging the conflict, and Eritreans are looking beyond the Horizon to accommodate that for greater good of both peoples. If I were you I wouldn’t go beyond that to tell them how they should interpret any component of their national affairs.

      I still hold many of your positive stands in the relationship of our countries in high esteem. But one advice is that it is better not to venture on how things should be looked by others. I respect you view and hopefully you do mine too, but I would not try to tell you on what you should believe about the history of your TPLF struggle and how you appraise yourself as far as the Ethio-Eritrea war is concerned. That would be for you and the best I could do is either negotiate it or settle in courts. We did settle in courts, but understandably you don’t like that and if you want to revert back to out of court settlement, dialog and negitiation is the way. To impose your solution would come at a cost, and not very wise either.

      Regards

      • T. Kifle

        Selamat Haile TG,

        Actually, this entry is meant a reply to Mahmud Saleh’s comment below. I know the only difference there is between you and me is the border issue. That’s why your reply mainly focused on the last paragraph and you come up with some evidences from the judges at the Hague. The judges said Eritrea invaded Badme and Ethiopia escalated it (to the delight of Saleh Younis 🙂 ). How Ethiopia responded to that unprovoked aggression has to do little with just Eritrea’s ignition of the war. It would be really complicated if we try to settle the matter based on the views of some foreign judges that never set a foot on the ground. The scale of devastation caused by the war is enormous. Enduring justice prevails in an atmosphere of understanding each other. Problems caused to the common people of Eritrea as a result of bad/wrong decisions from our side should be addressed in earnest. We expect the new coming government and the good citizens of Eritrea reciprocate in kind that the source all the miseries has been the PFDJ leadership. I don’t understand how you approach the problem short of admitting the mistakes committed by IA as a man who stroke the first stick of the match.

        regards

        • haileTG

          Selamat T Kifle,

          Yes we are in the same page on many things, especially on the need to cultivate mutually beneficial relationships between our countries.

          The problem I am having with “Eritrea invaded” line of argument is because it is disingenuously linked to responsibility for all the damage. That is unfair and not likely to invite trust. IA had non transparent and deep level of involvement with the then leaders of Ethiopia. We were in the dark as people and country. His decision that fell afoul of intl. law in Badem can’t be used to accuse a nation of an “invasion” in its strict terms of definition. Invasion is a much broader popular and state sanctioned act. That was no where the case in our case.

          Unless we could do as you said and give common sense a chance, to white wash ALL of Ethiopia’s role and claim the specific action that happened in Badme rules everything and justify all of the reaction isn’t a deal breaker. When PFDJ tell us all of our border problems start and end with Ethiopia, we reject that. And when your side says ALL of the border problem starts and ends with Eritrea, we need courageous people from your side who would reject that and accept responsibility.

          To tell you the truth Eritreans were taken by surprise when the conflict happened and even the Cabinet of Ministers learned of The infamous “the sun will not set” speech on TV, despite agreeing the opposite in their meetings (I know this from a person who sat in those meetings). How could a nation go to invade a much bigger neighbor and no one Knew anything about it? Invasion is a huge deal, you know more than anyone about that.

          When Eritrea went to conflict with Yemen, Ethiopian Airforce gave Arial cover? Did Ethiopia and Eritrea invade Yemen? I think what we have is conflict mismanagement and to escalate it to invasion is overkill and short of compromise, legal ruling might be the only way forward.

          Regards

          • Amde

            Hi HaileTG

            I will quote you where you said “How could a nation go to invade a much bigger neighbor and no one Knew anything about it? ”

            In my mind I find it impossible to see how such an event could have happened without the knowledge , acquiescence and involvement of senior and mid-level party and military people. Logistically it is impossible. That is why i find it unconvincing when people try to paint it as a surprise. The nature of what happened shows it to be a major consensual project of the Shaebiya elite.

            To be honest i find the whodunit discussion rather pointless. EPLF had a narrow window of opportunity to dictate the post war terms while its opponent was relatively weak. That window passed, and we are in a more natural state of affairs today.

            Formalities aside, i still think Issayas is just one deal away with TPLF to reverse the core problem facing the Eritrean State. If he were to go on TV tomorrow and tell Eritreans that for the good of the nation he has signed an agreement that will end the hostilities with Ethiopia and will start demobilization in a month, what will happen? Will Eritreans refuse to go home on principle that Badme must never be Tigrayan? For those of us in the comforts of the west, jingoistic high horses are cheap. Not so cheap for the youth in the trenches.

            Amde

          • haileTG

            Hey Amde,

            I think these seem two questions you need badly clarified:

            1 – I can’t say for sure if there were indeed people closely participating in IA’s decision making. If so, I would imagine probably those shadowy figures in security and intelligence. But remember, what we are dealing here is an attempt to describe the conflict as an “invasion”. Invasion would require a far greater preparation, mobilization, drum beating, mass involvement and what have you. Eritrean national service started in 1994 and and all the rounds in those days were discharged at the end of the 18 months. It was only few months before the conflict that there was some movements of youth for what was described as MaEtot or work in helping farmers. Some point to this as a purposeful act of gathering back the youth for an impending conflict. Otherwise, the bulk of mobilization and re-enlisting of ex-tegadelti took place AFTER the start of the hostilities. Wouldn’t an invasion do that BEFORE the conflict, if nothing else? Wouldn’t gasoline be hoarded, meals be prepared for the invading armies, clinics be set up for the war effort? Come on Amde, we are supposed to invade a country almost 5 times our size and 20 times bigger population and the Italians failed to invade and all there is for preparation is a mere 3 rounds of Sawa that didn’t even require them to stay in training but let them go back!! We need to at least think after 30 years of warfare shaebia had no clue how to engage a war. No Amde, IA overacted in and around Badme and Ethiopia overacted all over other places. The EECC has gone to extraordinary length to examin and document Ethiopia’s atrocious war crimes, targeting of civilians, bombing raids, rounding up those in Ethiopia…. that got it fined $160 million total (barely $10 million shy of Eritrea’s fines). IA miscalculated in Badme, in Somalia, in international diplomacy, in economics you name it. Eritrea isn’t responsible for actions of a dictator holding to power by force and coercion. Where as Ethiopia’s actions were parliament approved and it would be fair to hold the nation Ethiopia responsible. To say Eritrea invaded Ethiopia, outside the literal meaning of the term invasion and outside the legal finding that not only declined to endorse it but also fined you a leg and an arm for all war crimes (as it described it) and make that the condition of reconciliation is a hard bargain. We are neighboring countries and we need to use terms in their strict legal interpretation. If Eritrea invaded Ethiopia then that strictly refers to the incident of unlawful armed attack of Eritrean troops in Badme in early May 1998. Many of the counter offensives by Ethiopia were also unlawful (such as in Burei and Bada areas) this too is invasion, i.e we are simply abusing the word invasion. What happened was a mismanaged conflict whose origins spanned decades.

            2 – If IA signs an agreement and demobilize, that is a great news. Our struggle is to free our people from bondage, to restore their rights and dignities. If IA lessens the hostility with Ethiopia and the hardship on our youth, that would be most welcome. The next level of the struggle would be to settle up the other one million and one issues that would return power to the rightful owners. Why do you think we object to that? The Ethiopian plan doesn’t include acceptance of the charges of “invasion” it is just practical give and take. The point I made about Ethiopia’s capability to hold Eritrea wasn’t bragging or jingoism. The reason Ethiopia was advised to withdraw from Somalia was the old hostilities between them was favoring the terrorists there. Eritrea defines its very existence by war of independence against Ethiopia. The hostilities are fresh and complicated. Hence, an Ethiopian army would be faced with an entire country of every single square meter being part of the war zone. They would face running battles, bombings, snipers, in every corner and from every rooftop. The Ethiopian military planers would never entertain any such scenario. Did you know that the only single time that Eritrean youth went into physical challenge of the regime in post independence Eritrea was when members of TPDM went out for rounding the youth with the regular army. That created a shock wave. Take note. Historical hostilities are very tricky thing to deal with. It happened in Somalia, it happened in the reaction of people in the non Tigrayan regions of Ethiopia, towards TPLF combatants soon after the fall of Mengistu and when it happens in Eritrea it could set off a volcanic like eruption. This is nothing jingoistic but a sober assessment of the reality that I am sure Ethiopian military and security experts have alraedy assessed long ago.

            Peace out:-)

          • T. Kifle

            Selamat Haile TG,

            You said, verbatim, “To tell you the truth Eritreans were taken by surprise when the conflict happened and even the Cabinet of Ministers learned of The infamous “the sun will not set” speech on TV, despite agreeing the opposite in their meetings (I know this from a person who sat in those meetings). How could a nation go to invade a much bigger neighbor and no one Knew anything about it? Invasion is a huge deal, you know more than anyone about that.”

            If true, doesn’t this make it easy to admit the mistake, apologize, distance oneself from that imposed war and move on instead of want of dividing the mistake?

          • haileTG

            Hello T Kifle,

            Admitting mistakes and apologizing are the marks of great wisdom and foresight. They are considered so, when offered rather than demanded. Of course, Eritreans must own up to all mistakes they have committed against Ethiopia (please note that I am saying Eritreans not the dictatorial regime) and must apologize. By the same token, Ethiopians must own up to all mistakes that they have committed against Eritreans and apologize. If you believe that since IA started the firefight in Badme, Ethiopia has done no wrong, every action it took was totally justified and all responsibility rests on whoever started the firefight, then we end up in our persistent stumbling into going in circles. I generally think Ethiopians and Eritreans are decent and cultured people and have no qualms to own up and apologize to one another and move one. We don’t really owe anything to each other out of that crazy war. We never invaded you and no would we contemplate such a stupid idea. It was the out come of an intimate, non transparent and at times unlawful dealings between both leaderships that went pear shaped and ended up costing us so much. Both our peoples harmed each other inadvertently and should make up and move forward, The price paid was heavy, your side was as much responsible to causing it as our side. Our peoples are already warming up to good start in people to people and Ethiopia’s initiative is to be appreciated on that. Let’s live and let live and by gone be by gone. We don’t need to divide the mistakes or else we end up multiplying them. I own half and you own the other half and let’s cancel them out. If for anything else, let’s think of the young and their future. Regards

          • dawit

            Dear haile TG,
            I like what you wrote above it very conciliatory statement and balanced a roadmap for Peace!, However, I am afraid you are asking the impossible from Habesha culture, i.e.’ admitting your mistake’. I think it is in our culture not to admit our mistakes instead give reasons one after the other to prove we are always right and win the argument ’til the sun sets on the east’! It sad but it is true, you can prove it right here at Awate Forum. Look this “Identity Crisis Issue, it started two weeks ago, when there was a plan for Democratic coup, by Eritreans supported by Ethiopians. The discussion started civil, then the plotters, went into argument, while Isaias travelled to Egypt. Now he is back and here Ethiopians still talk about Bademe border war, who was right and who was wrong, instead of bringing positive ideas how to end the crisis.
            Peace
            dawit
            Peace
            Dawit

          • welde

            Hi HTG,
            You said, “Ethiopians must own up to all mistakes that they have committed against Eritreans and apologize.”

            What appology are you asking, could you please list them, so that we know what they are.
            I can list some of mine ,what Ethioians did to Eritrea:-
            1. Ethiopia the first country to recognise and accept the referendum and the independent of Eritrea..
            2. Ethiopia wrote letters to the UN, AU,EU and other international institutions to recognise Eritrea in support of the Eritrean people wishes- an independent country.
            3. Ethiopia is the only country to allow Eritrea use the Ethiopian currency ,Birr, until Eritrea got its own currency.

            After all this Eirtrea invaded Ethiopia /Badme, so what do you think Ethiopia should have done at the time.
            Haile TG , could you be honest enough to tell me as to why Eritrea invaded Ethiopia/ badme? Do you really think Isayas cared for the small town of Badme, sent his toop to liberate it?

            I hope you will list all the mistake Ethiopia committed against Eritrea.
            regards,

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Hailat,

            your debate is always about the move to the bright future, reconciliation, and cooperation. Because that is the only path to peace and stability. I commend you and keep it up.

            AH

          • T. Kifle

            Dear Haile TG,

            I understand the central theme of your message. And I am not demanding anything from the Eritrean people that had no say on the course of decisions and actions of their government. There is no doubt IA was so provocative that emotions were running high. His actions were so cruel beyond words could explain and Ethiopians were extremely angry. The bombing of the school children, the bulldozing of the burgeoning town of Zalambessa into rabbles and his incessant spiteful and condescending speeches are but few that made the war even uglier. The first victims of deportation were Ethiopians(1991). No one spoke about their plights. 1998 saw reciprocal deportations but the elites cry out loud about those Eritreans and none about Ethiopians. The Ethiopian government officially apologized for the summarily deporting Eritreans though there were eminent security concerns that cannot be discounted in any way.

            Now, you are telling me launching an offensive from Bure front was illegal(in another comment). I fail to understand you when you wanted us to fight only where IA wanted us to fight him. The Ethiopian parliament authorized the executive to take every measure to reverse the aggression including the use of force in a fitting manner. Bure front by the way is Eritrea’s initiative to strangulate Ethiopia by blocking the road access to Djibouti. So there is no rule that Ethiopia did possibly violate as far as its strategy of engagement is concerned. The man was IA high in his horse as you can see in the video you have provided to dawit. He was really a very very bad enemy. He knows no rules of engagement whatsoever. You would, hopefully, understand if IA had capacity of air power, we could have seen many more uglier escapades.Thanks God! he hadn’t. What is wrong if I encourage Eritreans to reflect on the war and its consequences? You still hold that Ethiopia is equally culpable. Many of the elites through their writings express tWga’Hmo. Many of the Elites accuse IA for failing to win the war not because he started it. That’s why for the elites the G-15 are heroes and he is a villain. My fear is that there could be still loopholes for repeating similar mistakes unless objective assessment is made on the true genesis of the problem..

          • dawit

            Selam T. Kifle,

            Can you reproduce “The infamous’ “the sun will not set” speech by PIA that you have been reciting daily like your ‘wedase Mariam’. Is this the same ‘urban myth’ like “Eritrea top Coffee Exporter in Africa”!? If you are true, you will reproduce it or give link your readers to the source we can independently ascertain to it. Other wise it is a proof that you make up things and have people without any proof.
            Peace
            Dawit

          • haileTG

            Selamat dawit,

            Until TK brings actual reproduction:

            1- I have actually heard it with my own ears, if my memory served me right let me recite:

            “ኣብዚ ህዝብን ዓለምን ክፈልጦ ዝግብኦ ነገር እንተሃልዩ፡ ካብ ባድመ ወጻእና ማለት ጸሓይ ፈጺማ ኣይክትበርቕን እያ ምባል እዩ ክኸውን ዝኽእል” ሰነ 1998

            2 – The quote was made at the end of the following interview which I don’t think has been included in this clip, but here is the rest (It is available some where, you’ll have it soon…may be Eyob????”

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgb8k47tKU8

            Regards

          • haileTG

            One more:

            113 Isaias said that “pulling out of Badme may be likened to insisting that the sun will not rise in the morning….it is unthinkable”, Cited in Kjetil Tronvoll, “Borders of Violence – Boundaries of Identity: Demarcating the Eritrean Nation State”, Ethnic and Racial Studies, vol. 2 November 1999, p. 1,048.

            Crisis Group, footnote citations and references #113 on page 24

            http://www.crisisgroup.org/~/media/Files/africa/horn-of-africa/ethiopia-eritrea/Beyond%20the%20Fragile%20Peace%20between%20Ethiopia%20and%20Eritrea%20Averting%20New%20War.pdf

          • dawit

            Selam haile TG;

            Thank you for the links you provided. The only close thing is you testimony, you tried to recite from your memory from 1998, which is 16 years ago.I checked the links you provided, but non had real quote. They must wrote what he may or may not said and put quotation marks. I checked Kjetil Tronovoll writings and referred his quote from BBC interview of June 1, 1998. I try to Google BBC interview, but there is non to be found!

            I am wondering why such important quote that so many people talked about and quote daily just disappeared from the face of the earth. Further reading on Professor Tronovoll writings, I discovered he is are completely biased against Eritrea and wishes the collapse of Eritrean government and a civil war to be ignited in the country worst than Somalia. God willing his prediction never happen..
            Here is a quote from some at Deahi.org, you may not like it, ፡”ባድመ ናትና እየ ዋላ ጻሓይ ንምስራቅ ትዐረብ”1998. It differs a lot from your memory. Until I see the actual credible source, I tend to accept it.
            I doubt any Ethiopian will bring the proof. Few months a go I challenge for the proof when “Eritrea became the number one coffee exporter in Africa”, non were able to produce it, even though it was one of the accusation made to justify to go to war with Eritrea and deport so many innocent Eritreans from Ethiopia. I am going to look for it ’til the sun sets on the east’.

            Peace

            dawit

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dawitom,

            This insane megalomaniac person had said so many things a normal person couldn’t say it, and is still saying many ridiculous utterance. Were you suspicious about that? He said it. The problem was that our elites were laughing and drum beating his words. We wrote about it and deplored his nonsense words. We know that in wars and battles there is always push and and pull. Even the mighty military of USA are pushed until they pull from the Vietnam war. What we have to learn as a common citizen we should scrutinize the words and acts of our leaders. We failed to stop the war and we have paid dearly.
            Hawka,
            Amanuel Hidrat

          • Semere Andom

            Dear Emma:

            The issue with the insistence of evidence is at the heart of PFDjite of requiring evidences when they are accused of something, but these are people who disappear and kill people from their hotel rooms at a hooligan’s whim. Playing the honorable skeptic, while disappearing skeptics.These are people who accuse Sweden and USA for lack of democratic values, two nations with their own demons but who for the last few hundred years worked to refine their societies and made admirable positive impacts. These are people whose organization is composed of hooligans who have decided on the death of Eritreans in a snap of their fingers and cry about the injustices of the world towards them. These are people who hijacked a promising revolution that commenced to supplant the rule of the jungle by the rule of law but instead instituted a rule of the jungle of fit for the modern world. PFDJ is evil and its supporters are willfully evil and I was laughing the dawits challenge of T.Kifle for evidence, Kifle’s latest musings about Eritrean identity had glaring stuff that needed to be challenged, but in a typical PFDJ style dawit chose the most trivial thing from Kifle’s comments, “btsay dawit net woyanay chibti eli wetirwo” is the line these people will mention ad infinitum in their alcoholic anonymous of sort gathering. Dawitom is the one who gave the the “zneges nigusna” a new meaning to legitimize the protracted rule of PFDJ, but long before PFDJ jelled to its current form the EPLF pooh-poohed the saying. To summarize, PFDJ supporters are not motivated by stuff that benefits the nation of Eritrea, yes they wake up every morning and dream of nipping in the bud any germinating shoots of rule of law. While the Eritrean identity was questioned the PFDJite extraordinaire zeroed on the most trivial, easily provable truthful statements of yester years, this proves to you where the PFDJiteheart lies, at a time when one of IA’s leg’s is in the grave and other is on a slippery pavement and at a time the Eritrean identity is assaulted from different directions, the PFDjites choice is telling

            Sem

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dear Sem,

            I can’t agree more. Keep up your stoic principles, and your generation will soon take the stock of our nation.

            AH

          • dawit

            Sem,

            T.Kifle asserted that Isaias is crazy and the proof is he said this and that in his life time. The reason for his crazy ideas is because he had a defective gene that he inherited from Italian colonizers, and this widely seen in the Eritrean society in general even among the elite or educated people here at Awate. So from Isaias bashing slip to Eritreans bashing. As usual self appointed Abokato. accuse me for seeking proof. Here is a quote SM from your soul mate TK, “ያይጥ ምስክሯ ድንቢጥ” እንዲሉ . It describe well your advocacy.

            dawit

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam dawit,
            .
            Sometimes it is so funny to read this back and forth, dawit. First you chastise T.Kifle for using Amharic to express himself after he told why. Then you copy the Amharic saying he used as if you heard it for the first time and repeatedly deploy it without an accent to buttress your argument.
            .
            The one that takes the cake is you used it against a fellow Eritrean Semere Andom (he may or may not understand Amharic) without the slightest hesitation. I think I know the answer now. I know someone by the name of Dawit from a small town in Gojam. He was a convincing actor well versed in SEMNA WORK. I will look for evidence.
            .
            K.H

          • dawit

            Selam Kim Hanna,

            Well Kim this argument started way back in the days of planning democratic coup in Eritrea. Back then I wrote against the crowed of YG ideas and he disciples her at AT. T. Kifle did not the idea that a ‘prophet like YG cannot be criticized. He took it as blasphemy to question or criticize YG her at AT, so he started barking all over the place with his psychoanalysis of Eritrean people because of damages received by Italian colonization. I am writing to disprove his bogus idea referring to his superior identity from Tigrai experiences under the domination of Amara rule.

            As to using Amaharic phrase with SM the ‘abokato’ from the Italian Avvocato, if he can’t understand it he can refer it to TK for explanation. SM is a person who cannot tolerate any Eritrean who support Isaias ideas, even though he believes in democracy in diversity.

            As to my origin your guess is almost right,የጨዋዎች ሃገር ጎጃም ሳይሆን ከዓባይ ወንዘ ባሻገር ክxxxx ኣገር ነው.
            dawit

          • Semere Andom

            Dawit:

            My advocacy is on behalf of my people, no matter how small it is even one line I speak both in deference of my people and in their support, never in the name of a dictator. And my comments speak to that. You may wonder why I am so blunt, it is not personal, no one from my family is suffering from the PFDJ except the pains from the general national issues, no one from my family or close relative is languishing in the jails of PFDJ that you bless. So it is not personal, my bluntness both to the PFDJ and supporters is never in canonizing the powers that be and never in support of TPLF and woyanes, but yes I am on record saying that the TPLF/Woyane worked and are working for their national interest while PFDJ have yet to prove that it put the national interest first. I also am on the record for saying that TPLF is made up of both small men and august men and it seems that the august me of vision are winning for what they are doing for their own country, but PFDJ is made only small men, visionless, once visionaries with a few august men, but PFDJ was created by eliminating the few august men and you are fine with it, not only that but you are in support of the tyrant and never in deference and respect of the people, such is the emblem of the supporters of PFDJ, a badge of shame that you confuse with a badge of honor. So how does that make me an advocate of the woyane (TK). I remember the great Emma Hidrat once wrote an article and used the quote, “hero is someone who defends his country from its government”, but heroes in the PFDJ nation is someone who sells their consciousness to the tyrant. I know “ygermen alo” is the word of he epoch in Eri now, some of us “aygermanan eyu” as history tells us that it is always the tussle between evil and good, the supporters of the evil will never show to defended their once master as the last hour and the supporters of the evil are always among us, they are charming at times and vulgar at times depending at their whim and so is with their whimsical actions when they snap their fingers to disappear “deqi meriet” and for that they receive the unbridled support of their flock in the kingdom of our own mad Nebuchadnezar.

            My advocacy is optimistic on the ultimate triumph of my people the defeat PFDJ and I do not blame the TPLF or USA for our current situation, it is our own making, I take responsibility. You have yet to do that, and your only dream is the fragmentation of Ethiopia so for the PFDJ to stand

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Hi Sem,

            If Dawit believes on “zinegesse Negusna” there is nothing to debate with him. He closed the door of a debate and will accept whoever comes, be it narcissistic or sane person who gives priority to the lives of his citizen.

          • dawit

            Hi Aman,
            You have described my stand almost right. I don’t support a foreign dictator in my country to rule. But if tomorrow Aman or SM become Eritrean ruler, I will support him as much as I support Isaias today to rule till he expired? Can we make a genuine cost/benefit analysis and reach a conclusion irrespective of our hatred to Isaias who is an Eritrean individual a product of our collective history to independence.

          • dawit

            SM, I am surprised by your last stamen “..your only dream is fragmentation of Ethiopia…” This is a complete distortion if not fabrication of my stand on Ethiopia and Eritrea. I believe I have written here at AT, that I am 100% Ethiopian and 100% Eritrean. If anyone has a problem with the Math, then I cannot help him or her., I don’t have interest in the fragmentation of any of them or one to dominate the other irrespective of size or population. All I want is both my countries to leave in peace as they did for 1000s years. If Eritrea is in chaos, then Ethiopia is too and vise versa. I have no tolerance for people who encourage conflicts in the region, within or between countries in the region, that includes all the countries in the Horn of Africa, Somalia or Sudan..
            dawit

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dawitom,

            Och! Though I welcome the above statement, then why are you supporting the man who become the menace of the region “Issays Afeworki”? Didn’t you notice yet where his hands are stretched to destabilize the region that includes Somalia, Ethiopia, Congo, Sudan, South Sudan, Yemen, Djibuti. Dawitom shetahtah tibil alka. Is that the ambivalence of Eritrean mind?

          • dawit

            My dear my friend Amanuel,
            There is nothing shetahta zebil in my stand. It is not the ‘ambivalence nor Syndrome’. I stand on a firm ground in my support for Eritrea and its leaders. You and me had discussed it before. I see Eritrea’s cup half full under Isaias and you see it empty. The list of accusations against Eritrea ‘the spoiler of the region’ is not new to me. I wonder why you did not add to the list of countries ‘Sweden and Canada’? Let me add one of the latest from pseudo Ethiopians that Eritrea kidnapped Andargachew of Ginbot -7 in Yemen and handed it to Ethiopian securities! Do I have to believe all fabricated news that deliberately condemned Eritrea and Isaias as true statements?. Those kinds of fabrications started long before Eritrean got its independence as far as 1940s and 50s long before Isaias joined the “Shifta” under ELF.
            Regards
            dawit

          • Hahahaha I take responsibility my foot. The only responsibility you have is to be YG’s foot solder and servant. Now all of sudden you care about Ethiopia more than Eritrea? lol. YG must mumble something to that effect. We know your master and you have a good track record you are second to none in serving your master and please stick with that. Don’t try to serve T-K at the same time. To serve One is a great burden, let alone two.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Nitricc,

            Please don’t go out of bounds of our politics. Respect people. If you respect your will be respected in abundant. Insulting is not a debate.

          • T. Kifle
          • dawit

            Hi T. Kifle

            Let me return your Amharic proverb “ያይጥ ምስክሯ ድንቢጥ” እንዲሉ : You brought the war propaganda video to support your claim. A video doctored and manufactured by actors is not the real thing. Your Professor Kjetil Tronvoll, cited BBC interview and you reproduce war propagandas video same lies what made Eritrea the number one exporter of coffee in Africa! I knew you will not reproduce an authentic original video even if ‘the sun set in the east ‘.እነም ከኣራዳ ኣንተም ኣራዳ ምን ያጣላናል በሰው ቀዳዳ’ እንዲሉ
            Peace
            dawit

    • Binieam

      Hi T.Kifle

      I’ve just recently ventured into Awate. I have to say you
      are a brilliant debater; you argue your points well and freely touch on sensitive
      issues with skill and care, without the narcissistic overtone or getting too
      emotional. I look forward to reading and
      learning more from you and the Awate writers and members.

      Binieam

    • Kokhob Selam

      እኔ እንጃ ብቻ ኣስተሳሰቤ ክሁላችሁም የተለየ መሆኑን ሳየው ይገርመኛል። ለምሳሌ ጦሩነቱን ማን ጀመረ ለሚለው ጥያቄ መልሳችሁ በፍጹም ኣይመቸኝም :: እኔ ጦርነት ተጀመረ የምለው ጥይቱ ሲቶኮስና ሰዎች ሲሞቱ ኣይደለም :: በመሰረቱ የሁለቱ ድርጅቶች ጉንኝነት በጣም ደካማና እውነትን ያልተላበሰ ኣልፎም ለተራ ታጋዮች ያታለለ ጠበብተኛነት የተላበስ መሆኑ ነው ::
      ኣንድ ጠቃሚ ብየ የማምንበት ጉዳይ ልንገርህ ሁላችንም የመጣንበት መንገድ ኣለ :: ይህ የትጓዝንበት መንገድ ብየኣእምሮኣችን ያሳደረው ስሜት ከገዛን የመግባባቱ ዕድል ይጠባል :: ስለዚህም ነው ስፋ ያለ በህሉም ኣቅጣጫ የመመልከት ችሎታ ያለው ኣእምሮ ሊኖረን ይገባል የምንለው – ሰላምን ከፈለግን:: ለምሳሌ የወያኔ ትግል ካልተዋጠላቸው ሰዎች ኣንዱ ነኝ :: የመጀመርያውን ተጋድሎ ሓርነት ትግራይን መምታታቸው ራሱ መጥፎ ታሪካቸው ነው :: ኤርትራ ውስጥ ጣልቃ ገብተው ከሻዕብያ ጋር ተቆራኝተው ጀብሃን መመታታቸው ብፍጹም ልቀበለው ያልቻልኩና እንድያውም ባገኘሁት ዕድል ሁሉ ሻዕብያንም ወያኔምን ነበር የምጋፈጠው :: ባድመን በተመለከተም የሚባለው ልክ ኣይመስለኝም :: እኔ በኣካል የተካፈልኩበትን የ1978 ጉዳይ ትክክለኛ ታሪኩንና የውግያው ውጤት በትክክል ኣልተገለጸም :: ለማነኛውም በዚህ ጉዳይ ብዙ መናገሩ የሚሰጠው ጥቅም የለም : እንዲያውም ልዩነትቻንን ማስፋት ይሆናል ብየ ኣምናለሁኝ ::

      ይህ ህዝብ ሰላም ጠምቶታል : ሰላም ይፈልጋል : ለሰላምም ተብሎ ብዙ መታልፍ ያለበት ታሪክ ኣለ ::ኢሓፓዎች በወያኔ ትግራይ ሲመቱ ፍጹም ልክ ኣለመሆኑና ጀብሃ ያኔ ብቅጽበት ወያኔን እንድትመታ : ካልሆነ ይህም ወደሷ እንደሚዞር ከተናገሩ ታጋዮች ኣንዱ ነኝ :: በርግጥ ኣሁንም ያለው መንግስት የኢሓፓን ጉዳይ ካልፈታ ችግር ውስጥ እንደሚገባ እርግጠኛ ነኝ :: ይህን የምልህ ኢሓፓን ብቅርብ ከሚከታተሉ ስዎች ኣንዱ በምሆኔ ነው :: እንዲያዎም ትራማጁ የኢሓፓ ወገን በሻዕብያ የተሰጠውን ዕድል ሳይቀበል መሰመሩን ሳያናጋ መቆይቱ ምን ይህል የሩቅ ፕሮግራም እንዳለው ያሳያል ::

      ኣሁን ሻዕብያ ስርዓት የለሽ – የባልጌዎች ስብስብ በመሆኑ እንጂ ባለፈው ታሪኩ እየጠየቅነው ኣይደልም ::በርግጥ ድርጅቶች የሰፊው ህዝብ ውጤት እንጂ ከማርስ የመጡ ኣይደሉምና ሰላምን የሚፈጥረው ኣስተሳሳብን መለወጥ እንጂ የግለ ሰቦች መወገድ ወይም መገደል ኣይደለም :: ስለዚህም ነው የኣረቦች መፍለስለስ እያየነው ያለ ዛሬ ::

      ረጋ በል ወንድም ::

      • saay7

        Whoa, Kokob Selam.

        Didn’t know you had it in you; pleasantly surprised:)

        Be warned, though, effective immediately T.Kifle will label you as part and parcel of the incurably infected elite. ኣይሰማዕካን ዲኻ: ናይ ሰላምን ርግኣትን ቅድመ ኩነት: ኣያታትኩምን ኣቦታትኩምን ርገሙ ዝብል ጠለብ ኣሕሊፉ ኣሎ ሓርበይና ወያናይ:: ሰብ ጻዕዳ ማዕዳ ድማ እሺ ጎይታይ ክብሉ ይጋገዩን ይጕየዩን ኣለዉ::

        But remember: ሃፋ ኣይረግአን ኢዩ

        saay

      • Com´on

        እድሜ ከስጠን እኮ

        ይማንሰማው ነገር ኣይኖርም !

        ( ነገር ኢሕአፓ ኣምጺኻስ፣ ኣደንጺኻና ድማ?)

      • Fanti Ghana

        በጣም የተከበርክ ውድ ወንድሜ ኮኸብ ሰላም፤

        የኔ አንበሳ፣ ተ. ክፍሌ ቀጥ አድርጎ ይዞልኛል አንጂ መቶ ለኣንድ እየተዋጋ እኮ ነው የሰነበተው፣ ደግሞ አንተም ትጨመርበት እንዴ?
        እኔና አንተ በምንም ተአምር ተ. ክፍሌ ከነ ማሕሙድ ሳልሕ፣ ሳልሕ ዩኒስ እና ሌሎችም ወደሚያደርጉት የፖለቲካ ቁርቁስ መግባት የለብንም፡፡ እኔና አንተ ተፈጥሮ የሰጠን ጠባይ ለማሸማገልና ለማሰታረቅ እንጂ ለፖለቲካ የሚመች አይደለም፡፡ እኔ ፖለቲካ ትንሽ ጀመርመር አድርጌ እንደማያዋጣኝ አይቸው ትቸዋለሁ፡፡ አንተም በዚሁ ምንገድ ብትከተለኝ ይሻልሃል፡፡

        ለምሳሌ፣ “ለምሳሌ የወያኔ ትግል ካልተዋጠላቸው ሰዎች ኣንዱ ነኝ” ካልክና አንዳንድ ወያኔ ያደረገቻቸው ዉሳኔዎች ታወግዝ እንደነበር ከጠቀስክ በኋላ የጠቀስካቸው ሁለት አድልዎ ኣዘል ሓሳቦችህ ልጥቀስልህ፡

        እንደየ አመጣጣቸው ላሰተካክላቸውና፡
        “ኢሓፓዎች በወያኔ ትግራይ ሲመቱ ፍጹም ልክ ኣለመሆኑና ጀብሃ ያኔ ብቅጽበት ወያኔን እንድትመታ፤ ካልሆነ ይህም ወደሷ እንደሚዞር ከተናገሩ ታጋዮች ኣንዱ ነኝ ::” ብለህ ታስብ እንዳልነበርክ

        “ኤርትራ ውስጥ ጣልቃ ገብተው ከሻዕብያ ጋር ተቆራኝተው ጀብሃን መመታታቸው ብፍጹም ልቀበለው ያልቻልኩና እንድያውም ባገኘሁት ዕድል ሁሉ ሻዕብያንም ወያኔምን ነበር የምጋፈጠው :: ” አልክ፡፡

        እየውልህ፤ ባንተ ላይ የደረሰውን ጣለቃ ገብነት ስትለው ወያኔን ግን እህአፓን ስለመታች ጀብሃ ጣልቃ እንትገባ አማክረህ ነበር፡፡ ፍፁም በማያገባትና ገና ለወደፊቱ ትመታን ይሆናል ብለህ ማለት ነው እንግዲህ፡፡ ወያኔ እህአፓን ከመታች አኛንም ትመታን ይሆናል የሚል ሐሳብ ከምን መጣ? በዛ ወቅት ጀብሃ የወያኔ ጠላት ነው የተባለ ድርጅት ሁሉ እየተንከባከበች ወያኔን ከማሰቀየም በስተቀር በወያኔና ጀብሃ መካከል ያደባባይ ጥላቻ ገና አልነበረም፡፡

        ይሀን መልስ የፃፍኩበት ዋና ምክንያት በተፈጥሮ የሰው ልጅ የራሱን ሀሳብና ድርጊት ትክክል መስሎ ሲሰማው የሌላው ደግሞ ስህተት ነው ብሎ ስለሚያስብ ነው ጦርነት ውስጥም የሚገባው አቤቱ ውስጥም የሚጨቃጨቀውና እንጠንቀቅ፣ እነዛ ገና የኛ እድሜ ያልደረሱ ከፈለጉ ይፋጩ ለማለት እንጂ ለመውቀስ አይደለም፡፡ እንደያውም ኣሁን ያለሁበት ሁኔታ በፍፁም ለውይትና ለመፃፍ የሚመች ስላልሆነ ነው እንጂ ብዙ መልስ ናፋቂ ሃሳቦች ሲዘነዘሩ ሰንብተው ነበር፡፡

        ጀብሃና ወያኔ እንዴት ውጊያ ላይ እንደደረሱና አዛ እስኪደርሱ ድረስ የነበሩት ትናነሽ አለመጣጣሞች በዝርዝ የሚያውቁ ሰዎች ለታሪክ ምሑራን ቢያስረዱ ይሻላል ብለን እንለፈው እንጂ ወያኔዎች ወያኔ በነገረችን መሠረት ጀብሃዎች ጀብሃ በነገረቻችሁ መሠረት የኛ ነው ሓቁ እየተባባልን ለዘልዓለም ልንነታረክ ነው፡፡ አብዛኛው ግዜ ተከራክሮ ለማሸነፍና ውስጣዊ ኩራትን ለማዳበር ካልሆነ በስተቀር ለማወቅ፣ ለመማር፣ ለማስረዳትና ለማስተካከል የምንወያይ ሕብረተ ሰብ አይደለንም ገና፡፡

        • Amanuel Hidrat

          Dear Fanti Ghana,

          You have said : “አብዛኛው ግዜ ተከራክሮ ለማሸነፍና ውስጣዊ ኩራትን ለማዳበር ካልሆነ በስተቀር ለማወቅ፣ ለመማር፣ ለማስረዳትና ለማስተካከል የምንወያይ ሕብረተ ሰብ አይደለንም ገና፡፡” Indeed, how true it is!!!!!!
          Amanuel Hidrat

        • Shum

          Hello Fanti Ghana,

          For folks like me, who don’t speak Amharic, can you translate what you and those preceding have written? Thanks, brother.

        • Kokhob Selam

          ወንድምየ ለዚህም ነበር -ኣንድ ጠቃሚ ብየ የማምንበት ጉዳይ ልንገርህ ሁላችንም የመጣንበት መንገድ ኣለ ፥፥ ይህ የትጓዝንበት መንገድ ብየኣእምሮኣችን ያሳደረው ስሜት ከገዛን የመግባባቱ ዕድል ይጠባል ፥፥ ስለዚህም ነው ስፋ ያለ በህሉም ኣቅጣጫ የመመልከት ችሎታ ያለው ኣእምሮ ሊኖረን ይገባል የምንለው ፡ ሰላምን ከፈለግን፥ -ያልኩት:: ለምታከብረው ሰው ኣስተያየትክን ብግልጽ መንገር ተመራጭ ነው ::ኣይመስልህም ?

          ኣይ!! መቸም ቸኮል ኣልክ እንጂ ኣንተም የመልእክቴን ሚስጥር ኣታጣውም ነበር :: መልእክቱ በልክ – እኔም እኮ ኣስተያየት ኣለኝ :- እኔም እኮ የማምንበት የፖሎቲካ ምስመር ኣለኝ :: ትናንት እኮ ተበድየ ነበር : በድየም ነበር : ወግቸና ተወግቸ ባለፍኩበት ትግል ኣታፊዙ :: ሰላምን መምረጥ ማለት መንበርከክ ማለት ኣይደለም: – ነው ::

          ፍቅር የሚያቸንፈው – የጋራ ሰላም የሚዘረጋው – ስንቻቻል ነው :: ባለፈው መነዛነዝ ከጀመርን እኔም የምለው ኣለኝ – ነው መልእክቱ ::

          ደግሞም ፖሎቲከኞች ኣንዳንዴ የተመጠነ ወደ ሰላም የሚስብ : እነሱ የሚረዱት ቃላት መወርውር ኣይጠሉትም :: ” እንዲች ነችና !! ” ብለው ወደ ኋላ በመሳብ ማስተዋል ይጀምራሉ ::

    • dawit

      Selam T.Kifle,

      Can we conclude the reason why you wrote in Amharic and not in Tigrgna, you native language be explained by the irreversible psychological damage that Amharas dominance on the people of Tigrai for Centuries. Even after three decades of liberation from Amhara rule, you still have to write in Amharic, knowing clearly that most of the readers communicate in English or Tirigna. Why? What would have been you reaction if Mahamud, or Sal wrote to your response in Tigre or Arabic? Or is there any subtle message you wanted to send to Eritreans? ኣወቅሽ ኣወቅሽ ቢልዋት መጻሓፉን ኣጠበች ኣሉ. I think you mission her at Awate is to perpetuate misunderstandings between Eritreans and Ethiopians.
      Peace!

      dawit

      • Abinet

        How does TK create misunderstanding b/n Eritreans and Ethiopians by using Amharic . You are trying to create a problem by saying “the Amhara dominance of Tigre ” and all the rest nonsense . In case you forgot this forum is the most inclusive . This time I didn’t wait for translation . Don’t forget Amharic is his national language and he is proud to use it whenever and wherever he sees fit.
        You are changing the subject when you can’t debate him .
        Speaking of Arabic ,I don’t know if it is your language as a nation to be proud of. I don’t think a proud Eritrean use Arabic instead of his own language to debate an Ethiopian . Unless he is trying to be more Arab than the Arabs themselves . Case in point ,your president . His first ever speech in addis was in Arabic until Meles Zenawi (RIP) told him to stop the BS and change the language.

        • Abenet,
          Excuse me for asking; is it really true that DIA used Arabic to address PMMZ and the Ethiopian people?
          It is news to me. I find it difficult to imagine that of all the languages he knew, (Tigrigna, Amharic, English and Arabic), he would choose Arabic, a language understood by a very small percentage of Ethiopians. I find it weird and difficult to believe.

          • T. Kifle

            Hi Horizon,

            It was during the June-July conference that charted out the transitional period. He was one of the participants. First he spoke in Tigrigna, once in his funniest moment, he had got his translator corrected when the man made a mistake while translating his speech and turned the entire audience into laughter. Then, in another round he started speaking in Arabic and the chairman requested him deliver his speech in English and he did.

          • Destaa

            Haha that is really funny. I have also seen a video where Isaias is asked in Amharic and he answers in Tigrigna. Given how Hailesellasie banned Tigrigna and the war he went through it might be understandable. I would have loved to hear his Amharic though. And he is educated in Ethiopia right?

          • T. Kifle

            Right Destaa,

            He was a sophomore at the Technology faculty. You must have seen his grade report at the back of the book written by Tesfaye Hailu, who was a field reporter from the battle fronts between 1999-2000.

          • dawit

            Technically speaking he was educated in Ethiopia, since Ethiopia annexed Eritrea. Had he spoke in Amharic, I am sure there would have been a lot of twisting of his answers, given the characters of the interviewer Elias Kifle who have written a brand new fabrication how Isaias betrayed Andargacew of Ginbot 7, kidnapping him and passing to Ethiopian security in Yemen!

          • Selam T. Kifle,

            Indeed arrogance and lack of prudence and wisdom are DIA’s second nature. The tragedy is that such people never change, and their legacy is pain and
            destruction for their people.

          • Haile WM

            Hi Horizon,
            I don’t understand what is the matter if he spoke Arabic? as much as I hate Iseyas I don’t really gt the point here.
            He was there to speak on behalf of Eritreans and EPLF and the two official languages back there for Eritreans and EPLF were tigrigna and Arabic and as an official from the front he used those two languages.
            Now I don’t understand where is the lack of prudence there ? He should have used amharic instead ? I think you are the one that are lacking prudence here, don’t forget that you are in an eritrean forum and some people are using amharic language to comment too, don’t stretch it over…

          • Selam Haile WM,

            DIA was addressing an Ethiopian audience, and Arabic is no different from Chinese, as much as Ethiopians are concerned. More natural is for him to speak in Tigrigna, a language understood by approx. 10 percent of the population. After
            all, he is supposed to hail from the Tigrigna ethnic group.

            As much as Awate.com is concerned, you should have known that although an Eritrean forum, to its credit it has become a multiethnic and a multi-linguistic site, open to everybody, provided that they respect the rules. Some people write in French
            and may be other languages not understood by all, and even the moderators who have a broad knowledge of the Amharic language sometimes use Amharic idioms to emphasize their messages. The owners of the site never said that being an Eritrean or the use of only the Tigrigna and the English languages, are among the criteria to post on awate.com.

            P.S. I am contemplating of writing in the language of the country I live. Just kidding. Be sure, you will not understand a word.

          • Saleh Johar

            Horizon, language becomes a problem when it is politicized. Otherwise, it remains a communication medium. But the moment you begin to address its identity related issues, it becomes controversial. If you look at it critically, why do you think T.Kifle used Amharic to write such a long comment? Is it because he woke up that morning and found out it is Amharic Day? Did he suddenly forget his English and Tigrinya? None of that. I tend to believe he was making a political statement. I will leave it to you to decide whether it was wise of unwise. But as far as Eritreans are concerned, if we are forced to express the political dimensions of Amharic, we have so many stories to tell. So does all “bher bhereseboch” of Ethiopia 🙂

          • Dear Mr Saleh Johar,

            My problem does not lie in the introduction of the Amharic language as a means of communication in the discussion that was taking place, but the way
            things progressed, even before the Amharic language came to the scene. That is why I tried to avoid participating on the subject, because the atmosphere was getting pretty nasty. I am not here to blame anybody, for it will not help. I am with those who said that “Eritrean Identity” should not have been a subject for discussion, because of its sensitivity, and because it does not lie under anybody’s jurisdiction. Unfortunately, things got out of hand and we ended up where we ended up, in an unhappy situation.

            The Ethio-Eritrean issue is probably one of the most broadly discussed subjects, and it is difficult to add something new to it, and I will be obliged to repeat things everybody know. The past is a weight tied to our legs, and as we saw so many times, it does not let us move forward. We should see ahead and not backwards, and we should never jeopardize the rapprochement of the two people for the sake of scoring a point.

            When we post a comment, we should discuss to inform and to be informed, and not to win a debate (a point stressed by Amanuel Hidrat so many times). Things that blow to pieces the foundations of the shaky rapprochement between Ethiopians
            and Eritreans should be avoided on both sides. Unfortunately, a moment of misunderstanding turned a very successful site into a war zone, and brought us years back.

            We Ethiopians should realize that we have yet to cross the Rubicon of poverty, and we should better do it together with our Eritrean brothers and
            sisters. On the part of Eritreans, they should understand that they cannot build the New Eritrea with old formulas, and they should make the giant step forward in order to approach Ethiopians. Let us all understand and work towards the only possible option for both people, which is to reach together the land of peace and prosperity. There are many who say that we do not need each other anymore,
            but the truth is that the best choice we have is to be there together.

            regards.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Indeed my horizon. If T. Kifle and others would have been like you, we would have been progressed to a new turning point of our countries and the region in general. The rapprochement of these two brotherly people will change the dynamics in our region. I still believe we will one day attain it. That is the only best option we have.

          • Abinet

            Ato Amanuel
            I need your help.
            I don’t understand this notion of ” brotherly people ” specially when it comes from you.
            You were involved in the struggle while you were in Addis. You told us that you were involved in mass mobilization in addis . Tell me please what were you saying the people you were mobilizing. Did you tell them that you were ” brotherly ” or you told them you were different May be more civilized so that you need to be independent.
            You were involved in receiving and distributing of armaments to shoot and kill your “brotherly people”
            A “brotherly person doesn’t conspire with the stinking Arabs to couse harm to his brothers.
            You helped couse suffering to us and all of a sudden we are your brothers.
            Did you have to fight to become a brother?
            We called you brothers and died in thousands to keep you with us. You won . You didn’t want to be our brother. Unless your definition of” brother” is different than my definition .
            Why don’t you just call us neighbors ? Plain ,simple,and most importantly,honest.
            The damage is done for you to call us brothers . After we killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people from both sides ( thanks for your success in mass mobilization ) if you tell me now that we are brotherly people ,sorry I don’t trust you.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dear Abinet,
            I don’t know what the hell you are talking. But if I understood you, I will try to answer you by Q&A. I hope you are married; and when you married, did you stay with your parent or do you make your own family? I believe your answer will be I left my parent and establish my own family while I have a good relationship with my parents. By the same token, we were saying also, while we seek our independence we will keep our good relationship with the people of Ethiopia. Ethiopia resisted for 30 years and yes we bleed each other unfortunately. But that isn’t the end to our relationship. There are many thing we could work for mutual benefit to our people and we will cultivate that kind of relationship.

          • Shum

            Hello Horizon,

            I like your post. I want to, in the spirit of brotherhood and dialogue, ask you some random questions to change the mood of the forum and keep it positive.

            1. What is your fondest memory of Addis Abeba? If you’ve never been, choose relevant Ethiopian city.
            2. What’s your top three destination spots when you go to Ethiopia?
            3. What’s currently on your music play list?
            4. What would your last meal be if you could choose?
            5. If you were stranded on an island with one Awatista, who would it be and why?
            6. When peace reigns between our countries, where in Eritrea would you travel?
            7. What’s the latest gadget that you’d like to pass onto Awatistas that we should not pass up?
            8. What fashion statement do you like most, Saleh Gadi’s pimp style Kangol hat or Saay’s nerdy professor suit?
            9. Who is your favorite Awatista in terms of the content of their postings?
            10. If Nitricc and Rahwa got married, how long do you think the marriage would last? How long before Rahwa knocks his teeth out and he becomes toothless?

          • Rahwa T

            Selam Shum,
            You are so funny. I laughed for the first time since this morning. Thank you, not for your idea of marriage proposal, but for your nice jock. I am not good at writing entertaining comments like yours.

          • Shum

            Genzebki, haftey. Horizon didn’t answer it, but i think you’d make him toothless at the reception after he’s had a few drinks and starts talking smack. But I think he would respect you for it and the marriage would last afterwards. Nitricc likes a person who can take charge and establishes authority.

          • Dear Shum,

            Wow, you gave me a difficult homework, and I am not sure if I can answer all.

            1. What is your fondest memory of Addis Abeba? If you’ve never been, choose relevant Ethiopian city.

            It is a long time since I have been to Ethiopia. Thanks to Youtube and Google Earth, I sometimes try to bring to my memory the streets of Addis I have walked, the Coffee shops (was it Rendez vous somewhere near Mesqel Square, a coffee shop at the Post Office building etc). I was at the Engineering College for a short period, before I changed field and left the country to study somewhere else, and I have some memory of AAU and its environs. As high school students, we would ascend Mount Entoto, and gaze at the city, although it was partially hidden by eucalyptus trees. Nevertheless, the scenery was beautiful. If I remember well, one could see as far away as mount Zqualla. In addition, a stroll in Piasa and Churchill Street and the smell of spices in Mercato etc, are beautiful memories of the past.

            2. What’s your top three destination spots when you go to Ethiopia?

            I would have liked to visit the village I was born, about 200 km from Addis. I would be happy to see again the elementary school I went to, the giant trees we climbed, sometimes to collect fruits and at other times simply for the fun of it, the river where we swam as children, the mountain we tried to climb and failed many times, and the forest we never dared to enter alone, unless we were a group of five or more. I want to see if these are still there. Naturally, some have gone forever.
            Addis is of course, a must visit city. I want to remember the life I lived as a High school student. Well, not so great a life. After all, I was a village boy, not sophisticated as Addis Ababans, who walked
            differently, ate differently and enjoyed differently.
            On top of this, I would like to visit the place where I
            worked for some time, although, as a grown up, professional and serious, there were not many mesmerizing memories to recall.

            3. What’s currently on your music play list?

            I am not really much of a music man. You see, I cannot say that I am old, nor am I young enough to listen to music on a regular basis. When I come across a New Ethiopian music, which I think I like, I usually listen to it repeatedly and then infrequency. I
            enjoy two things on the Internet, besides reading about Ethiopian and Eritrean news and commenting on Awate.com, whenever I think that I have something to say. These are playing Chess and Sudoku.

            4. What would your last meal be if you could choose?

            Shum, is it before I go to the electric chair? Just
            kidding! I do not think that I have understood the question.

            5. If you were stranded on an island with one
            Awatista, who would it be and why?

            Oh, I wish that that person is Kokhob Selam, a person for all seasons, trustworthy and genuine in his behavior. I will try to learn Tigrigna to be able to read his poems. With Nitricc, I wouldn’t know who would have tamed whom at the end when we are finally saved. Can you imagine me saying “Long live
            DIA” and Nitricc condemning him with all his power? It would be funny.

            6. When peace reigns between our countries, where in Eritrea would you travel?

            Asmara is my kind of town. I do not know other towns. I would like to sit at a table, drinking my Cappuccino, watching Awatistas, who are also sitting at the nearby tables, laughing and asking each other, why in the world did each one of them write such and such a comment. The problem is, if they could identify each other.

            7. What’s the latest gadget that you’d like to pass onto Awatistas that we should not pass up? 8. What fashion statement do you like most, Saleh Gadi’s
            pimp style Kangol hat or Saay’s nerdy professor suit?

            Problems shum. Over there in the US, you have your funny ways of talking, which we sometimes do not understand. Let me try, although I might be wrong. I am not a gadget and fashion man, sorry. Even my sons, have a limited number of gadgets. People do not sit at home here; they go out, walk a lot, fill coffee shops and even stroll at the seaside at mid-night and early hours of the morning during weekends. It is such a safe city.

            9. Who is your favorite Awatista in terms of the content of their postings?

            Another difficult question. Awate University has many good professors. There are, of course, some who hijack the discussion and make it tasteless. Otherwise, it is really difficult to choose among so many gifted people … Amanuel Hidrat: the wise man, saay: the walking encyclopedia, SJ writer and teacher who does not stand naughty students, Eyob: the historian, T. Kifle: an authority on
            Ethiopian and Eritrean revolutions, and many others equally gifted. I should not pass without mentioning our ladies, H.A. and Pappilonn, the ladies with a sharp pen and a sharp mind, who can put in motion even the dormant minds.

            10. If Nitricc and Rahwa got married, how long do you think the marriage would last? How long before Rahwa knocks his teeth out and he becomes toothless?

            Wow Shum, it will be the most difficult matchmaking in the world for any person to undertake. It will take months of serenading on Nitricc’s part to gain her heart, which I doubt she will ever give him. Nitricc
            should be careful and wear a helmet, for Rahwa might be tempted to throw at him anything in her reach from the fourth floor where she lives. Nevertheless, there is a rumor circulating that, if he makes a U-turn, she might consider him as one of the likely bridegrooms.

            WHO IS NEXT SHUM?

          • OMG, how did I forget Haile TG, the voice of the
            Eritrean people, the revolutionary and the great warrior in the anti-dictatorial
            struggle?

          • Shum

            Haile TG is awesome. His posts are so well written and provide a perspective that you feel you can’t get anywhere. The way he weaves together his viewpoints is amazing. If he is a great speaker, he could inspire so many people out there.

            But, but, but, you can only choose one in #9. I know there are many great writers and it’s hard to choose, but who is the greatest to you. I don’t think anyone will be offended if you don’t choose them.

            As to your question “WHO IS NEXT SHUM?”, I’ll let you pick. You can re-use my questions or you can formulate your own. And then that person can pick someone else, etc. Pick someone you don’t know enough about or someone who you would like Awatistas to know more about.

          • haileTG

            Ere Ere Horizon, I was about to quietly disappear, I thought I was fired …haha thnx man 🙂 But, let me also say you are a hell of a courageous Ethiopian who doesn’t hesitate to cede ground for the sake of giving the poor people’s hope a chance to materialize. I hold that with due respect. Keep it up ma bro 🙂

          • Mahmud Saleh

            Dear Horizon
            I observed your quiet position during the heated debate, it was wise, I also appreciate this mature input of yours. It reminds me that I am right when I target a small elite circle which is hell-bent to punishing Eritreans for whatever this small circle believes Eritreans’ crimes are. Just look at the up votes of your reply, 5 known Eritreans, and 3 guests among whom there will undoubtedly be Eritreans. That’s all. This very comment of yours tells it all. Where are the known Ethiopians? The fact remains that known Eritreans in this forum have for years been fighting PFDJ, working for peace between these countries, criticizing their government and their opposition organizations (including their own exiled parties), debating against each other (sometimes bitterly, it could even be seen between the founders of this website); you see Eritreans debating their past history, their present predicament, and proposing solutions for the future; you see Muslims and Christians among them; you see them switching languages without cringing feelings, etc. For a courageous Ethiopians, and particularly, for those who profess democracy among them, this is indeed a mature forum. I haven’t seen a hostile attitude towards Ethiopia and Ethiopians. One thing that you must have witnessed is the one you mentioned. We just don’t allow weaklings coming here thinking they would hit the last nail in our coffin. No, we won’t. We may be stumbling but we are not down, we won’t be. You have seen the passionate and well rounded reply of HTG, Aman Hidrat, KS…(forgetting for now the “nationalists”) and you know these gentlemen are among the pioneers of peace seekers. If this small hate-spewing circle which seems to be representing the political forces running Ethiopian politics for the last 23 years (as long as PFDJ has run Eritrean politics) can not respect the opinions of these well established Eritrean breads, I don’t know who it is going to dialogue with. This is just to show you how independent and vibrant the known Eritreans of this forum are. You know the independent positions of folks like semere, tes, nitricc, shum, Rodab, Tzigereda, both saras, Hope, Aosman, selam…Papi,..HaileWM, HaileZeru, dawit, serray…sorry if I am missing others. They are very opinionated and independent voices. They are not mouthpieces of political bodies, period. That’s what I appreciate about this forum. I hope you appreciate that quality and encourage our Ethiopian friends to display that type of diversity. Sadly, what I see is the unity of Ethiopians on areas that hurt Eritreans moral. We are talking about moral because the physical separation has already been done. What Eritreans are fending off is the moral-degrading assaults, the psychological attacks, and not the fear that Ethiopia will invade and subjugate us, no, not at all. That’s why I was saying peace could be achieved only when both sides put their bitter past aside and work on confidence building. You won’t tell me an incidence that has triggered such a fierce debate which could be blamed to known Eritreans of this forum. We have merely been responding to twisted preaching. You are among the few Ethiopians who put a brake on my rants, you have done it this time too,sir. Thank you.

          • Shum

            Hello Mahmud,

            I hear what you’re saying. Let’s move on from this and let bygones be bygones. I am constantly in transit, but when I get a chance, I will make an appeal to you and others regarding the article Saay wrote about Democratic Coup. We have some unfinished business there. I wish there was a way to put it front and center on Awate.com.

          • Mahmud Saleh

            Salam Shum;
            I’m waiting eagerly for Amanuel Hidrat’s next article on that same topic. He’s promised it, and I’m sure we’ll get a chance to look at it from a different angle.

          • Dear Mr. Mahmud Saleh,

            I pray the last polemics between the two brotherly people would not be repeated. What I believe
            is a major Habesha weakness is the fact that we consider the mosaic law of ‘an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth’, something we should stick to, no matter what. However, as Gandhi said, an eye for an eye will make as all blind. That is one of the reasons we fought each other and spilled so much blood over the last fifty years. Now, in the age of the Internet, Ethio-Eritrean war of words on the cyberspace is rampant, and we should all do our best to make Awate.com a glaring exception.

            Regards.

          • Haile WM

            in fact he did speak in tigrigna first and later he used arabic… The fact is he was not there to address the Ethiopian people but to express the wish and interests of the eritrean people, he did it in the two languages that were official in the Eritrea during federation and the two offical languages of the revolution and the front. to use your example if the chinese ofiacial delegation come to addis abeba rest assured the official addressing language they would use is Chinese (eventhough small number of ethiopians speak it) eventhogh the chinese delegation could speak English. that is to say that official language at dimplomatic level and working language.

            my ponit of awate.com being eritrean relates to the fact even a tigrian can speak in amharic let alone eritreans who choose their language and some of you having problems with it 🙂

            P.S. if you live in mars i guess you are right, other ways there is no land not reached by eritrean refugees and hence no language not known to eritreans 😉

          • Rodab

            Yakstie lij Horizon (I call Ethiopia my Auntie),
            It is not big deal for PIA to address in Arabic, one of Eritrea’s languages.
            I don’t see it much differently than PMMZ addressing Eritrean audience in Asmara in Amharic, which he did by the way. In 1993.

            To be fair, it might not be exactly equivalent, as more Eritreans understand Amharic as compared to Ethiopians’ understanding of Arabic. But the point of the two leaders was that they were on official capacity representing their respected countries.

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam our nephew Rodab,
            .
            I think it was prudent for PMMZ to speak in Amharic, specially when he was in Asmara. I don’t know if he did it all the time but in some important policy and significant matters using Amharic guarantees his own people hear him say it. No room for misinterpretations, misunderstandings or mischiefs.
            As far as President IA not using Amharic is his loss. Had he used Amharic with all its sayings and TERETS (I don’t know if he is good in Amharic) from the beginning, he would have had some impacts. Thank goodness he didn’t.
            One of my fond memory was in CAMBOLOGO where an Asmara team vs Addis team were playing. There were a group of Eritreans supporting their team while we were ours. One of the Eritreans with limited Amharic wanted to tell the referee what he thought of him. The referee’s name was Ayalew, I still remember it because of that incident.
            So the Eritrean guy stood up and on top of his lungs called the referee and told him off. He said AYALEW__ MOOOT.( Ayalew be dead) Everyone from his side and our side we burst into a long, long laughter.

            K.H

          • Saleh Johar

            That is funny Kim,
            Let me give you one similar joke. It involves a Kerentite whose Amharic was, well, Kerenite (now a senior official of the PFDJ) who was studying in Bahr Dar. He was begging the director to allow him a leave to visit homw. He translated the Tigrnya, “bedekha ‘leka” and went: enatkn hulet saammnt, enatkn!

          • Kim Hanna

            Mr. Johar,
            .
            It is so funny. I am sure the director said O.K quickly without further explanations.
            K.H

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Abu Saleh (SGJ),

            When I read your comment, I laughed. Do you know why? I did similar thing in my first year. The teacher and the whole class was exploded with laugh. You brought me an old good time memory – the school and my classmates in my fresh year.

          • Dear Kim Hanna,

            I remember one of my Eritrean classmates, who stood up in front of our class to speak on a certain subject during an Amharic lesson.

            He started with “ወንድሞቼ፣ ፊታችሁ ላይ ቆሜ ስናገር በጣሙን ደስ ይለኛል፣”. You can imagine, we all went crazy with laughter. At first he did not understand; but, when we explained to him that he said ‘he is happy to speak standing on our faces’, he burst into laughter.

          • Eyob Medhane

            Horizon,

            That’s funny. I am pretty good at picking out, when a Tigrigna speaker, who is very fluent and PERFECT in Amharic. The secret is the letter ‘ን’ is almost never placed in the right place. For example, ምግቡን በላሁት- ምግቡ በላሁት:: ደረጃውን የጠበቀ – ደረጃው የጠበቀ:: I always wonder why poor ‘ን’ is always forgotten…. 🙂

          • saay7

            Eyob:

            It’s just not poor ን…. We are not that crazy about “ም” either. As in: “ኢትዮፕያ ወይ ሞት” 🙂 Classy Ethiopians don’t correct us by saying do you mean ወይም…they just write it, in passing, correctly:)

            saay

          • Kokhob Selam

            ኣሁን ምን ይሻላል ኣድማስየ ? ኣያ ሳልሕ በዚች ትንሽ መስመር ትልቅ ነገር ተናገረ :- በኣንድ በኩል ኤርትራ ውስጥ የኤርትራ ከኢትዮጵያ ጋር መቀላቀል የመረጡ ሰዎች መኖራቸው :- የንጉሱ ቅጥሮኞ ቢሆኑም ግን ኣመርኛ እንደማያውቁ ወ.ዘ.ተ. ኢትዮፕያ ወይስ ኢትዮጵያ ? ነገረኛ ሰው ::

            ኣይ ፈገግ እንድትሉ ብየ ነው ::

          • Eyob Medhane

            Kokhob,

            You just proved my point…Now, your Amharic is perfect. Yet, you still ignored poor ን when you said “..የኤርትራ ከኢትዮጵያ ጋር መቀላቀል የመረጡ ሰዎች መኖራቸው….” Of course had you not forgotten or ignored ን, you would have said “..የኤርትራን ከኢትዮጵያ ጋር መቀላቀል የመረጡ ሰዎች መኖራቸው…” 🙂

          • Kokhob Selam

            and what do you think I was doing.doing. Lol. and now please ፈገግ.

            ኣየህ !! የኤርትራ ልጅ መሆኔ ላይቀርልኝ ኣይደል :: ኣቡጊዳ ብሎ ጀመሮ ያደገበትን ቛንቛ : እንዲያውም ብትያትርና ስነ ጹህፍ ኣድናቆት ኣግኝቶ የነበረው ኮኾብ “ን” ን ከረሳ ምን ታተደርገው ኣለህ :: ኣይ የሰው ነገር ! Don’t worry I am going to reconstruct it by going back to my old books.

          • Abinet

            Eyobe
            It is even more apparent when they ask time
            “SeAt sint hone ende?” Instead of “sint seAt new?”

          • Kokhob Selam

            yep, but you my brothers are you noting that you are correcting us on your language? do you know how to talk our language? Lol.

          • Eyob Medhane

            Kokhob,

            What you forgot is Tigrigna is also our language….See, in fact, it is more so our language, because we have more number of speakers of it than you. What do you have to say for that, huh? 🙂

          • dawit

            It must be the latest fabrication of ‘qouts’ from war propaganda machine HQ of Ethiopia, attributing anything under the sun to PIA. “ያይጥ ምስክሯ ድንቢጥ” እንዲሉ

          • Abinet

            Horizon
            As much as it difficult to believe ,it happened in front if the world . He has always been a national disgrace for every self respecting and proud Eritrean.

        • Haile WM

          abinet you live in Fantasy world where everything arabic is going after your imiye Itiopia. Relax ma friend..
          Iseyas delivered his speech in two languages one was tigrigna and the other was arabic, At the time he was speaking on behalf of EPLF and hence the people of eritrea by extension. Eritrea had the two languages as official during federation time and EPLF had two official languages and up to this date official speeches are given in those two languages. Deal with it.
          On the other hand Harbeyna weyanay is using not his native tigrigna but his master’s language i.e. amarigna. Had he thought of an ethiopian language he should have used Oromigna, in fact that is the most spoken language in ethiopia as mother-tongue 🙂
          the most funny thing is that this guy is speaking about the identity of eritreans forgetting about his identity.

          • Abinet

            If you are a proud eritrean representing your country, you don’t use a borrowed language specially if you have your own language .
            TK used the Ethiopian national language . In case you don’t now oromigna is not our national language .
            A mother tongue is different from official language . As far as I know,the official language of Eritrea is not Arabic . If I am wrong correct me .
            What percentage of Eritreans use Arabic as a mother tongue as compared to Tigrinya ?

          • Haile WM

            Abinet you are wrong infact let me correct you: Arabic was one of the two official languages of Eritrea that started with federation and ELF first and EPLF later used these two languages as official languages during the struggle. These are facts..
            on percentages and mother tongue.. well ma friend, the same argument can be used for Ethiopia and amharic… but i am not here to tell Ethiopians what language they should use, i simply understand the social and historical aspects that made amharic the national language in Ethiopia (this is history) the same applies to arabic in eritrea, read the social and historical reasons why Arabic was chosen to be one of the official languages.

          • Abinet

            Thank you haile
            I stand corrected . Now I know there are two official languages in Eritrea . Arabic and Tigrinya .

          • Eyob Medhane

            Abi,

            Making Tigrigna, Tigre, Afar or any other language that’s spoken in Eritrea subservient to Arabic is a task that many Eritreans wouldn’t mind to take and extend that kind of weird philosophy to Ethiopia. As I said so many times, on this very website, one of the ‘intellectuals’ Dr. Mohammed Kehir once wrote ‘If he were the Ministry of education in Ethiopia, he would have mandated all school age children to learn Arabic’. It’s the grand project of Arab cultural imperialism that some Eritreans willingly took up the mantle initially and popularized it through the use of the tendency of Kebesa Eritreans to be politically correct to the relegation and eventually extinction of their own culture, religion and faith and their very own survival….It’s a sad, affair really. Had T. Kifle wrote his comment in Arabic, instead of Amharic, he would have been cheered for doing so, by the same people, who cry foul about it now. I am glad that he knows who he is and is proudly uses what every thing his heritage offers, without looking to borrow across the Red Sea..

          • Dear Eyob,
            Ethiopian Muslims like most Muslims outside the Arab world do not need the
            Arabic language beyond its use in reading and understanding the Quran. Most Muslim
            countries outside the Middle East and North Africa do not speak Arabic, and
            there is no reason why Ethiopian Muslims should do so. Turks, Iranians and many
            Asian and African countries have their own languages. In addition, Ethiopian Muslims
            belong to diverse ethnic groups and they speak their ethnic languages like the Oromo,
            Somali, Afar and other languages. Therefore, there is no reason that they
            should abandon their ethnic languages in order to adapt a foreign language like
            Arabic. The Arabic language is not an issue in Ethiopia beyond its religious liturgical use in mosques.

          • Eyob Medhane

            Horizon,

            I am in a total agreement with you. I am assuming you are confusing what I said with Amanuel Hidrat, who always confuse Islam with Arabic. Iran, Turkey, Indonesia are Islamic countries, that found no use for Arabic to be spoken and used in their countries. Ethiopian muslims are owners of their own proud heritage and language and very early on embraced Islam without the need of Arabic also…..Please read again my comment above….

          • Eyob,

            I was trying to be in line with your point of view. May be I did not put it within the right context, as it should be.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Eyob Medhane,

            I am not confused my friend. You are the confused with the hate you have to the language as well as to the religion. Language can’t be dictated by the state or the government. The people decide what language they want to be official. If the Turkish people want Turkic language and the Iranian want Farsi, it is the choice of the people. Politics means simply administrating the different views your society has and addressing their grievances whatever shape or form it holds. So I will ask the same question I have asked to Mr. T.Kifle. Here is my a political question: Suppose If the Ethiopian Muslims asked you Arabic to be an official language in Ethiopia, will you go to confrontation or to accommodation? I just want to know you politics if you are faced with such tough questions.

          • Eyob Medhane

            Amanuel Hidrat,

            I am still waiting for a single line of evidence for you to provide that shows that I ‘hate’ Islam. You can’t, because it doesn’t exist.

            Ethiopian muslims have not demanded and will not demand Arabic, because they are confident of themselves to recite Quran in their own language or to worship. Therefore, your question is moot. It doesn’t have any base on it. Just like the Turkish or Iranian they did not allow anyone to impose language on them or better yet, they haven’t had a self hating ‘intellectual’ to burn their books.

            Now I want you to hear me out carefully on this. Do you want me to show you what ‘hate’ means? It means belonging to a political organization and burning books and brag about being a part of the discussion of doing it. An ‘educated’ person, burning any written document in fury, let alone books that is written in a language that one’s heritage is connected to, for no other reason, but pure ‘HATE’. That is what I call self hate, as well as hate for others. Thank God, almighty that Ethiopia never had ANY political party or institution that is as hateful with equally hateful members in it. I am done!

          • Saleh Johar

            Eyob,

            Not to go into a useless debate but just a correction:

            You wrote: “…because they are confident of themselves to recite Quran in their own language.”

            No one, I repeat, no one recites the Quran in “their own language.” Every Muslim reads the Quran in Arabic. Including Ethiopian Muslims. Also including Turks, Pakistanis, Indians, etc… Don’t mistake menzuma for Quran though maybe half the words used are Arabic by the way.

          • Eyob Medhane

            Gash Saleh,

            Thank you for the correction. .Minus that I stand with everything I said to Amanuel. Don’t u dare to make me change my mind on that… 🙂

          • Saleh Johar

            Ay Eyob. You always have to spoil it! I don’t care what you said to Amanuel. I corrected you on a specific issue, that is it. You don’t even have to thank me. But you being Eyob, you can’t resist: you stretch the issue, “Minus that I stand…” or I sit or run! It is irrelevant. Please stay on the topic, you don’t have to consider every word you type a sword you wield at those who discuss with you. Awahll, our elders advice. zereba awahll Eyob!

            Before you go ask the meaning, it is simply means: be a good listener.

          • Abinet

            Eyobe
            Do you remember the kind of debate b/n Dr Tilahun Gamta and Dr Bayeh Yimam regarding ethnicity ,language ,identity,use of technology, etc on the Oromigna language ?
            At one point Dr Bayeh said
            ” yeOromo hizb poletican beQuanqua Teqlilo yemiyagorsew ayfelgim”
            Here we have Ato Amanuel trying to impose Arabic on us through religion .
            Eyobe ,I am sure you have read the articles. If not find and read them . They were published by AAU research and publication or ILS . In the same publication you will find
            ” yekolej hisab beAmargna”

          • Saleh Johar

            Ato Abinet, please note that to many Eritreans, Arabic is much closer than Amharic. Amanuel is talking about Eritrea, what you do in Ethiopia is your business, what Eritreans do in their country is also their business.

          • Abinet

            Ato Saleh
            That is exactly my point . He is debating all day long not about Eritrean Muslims but about ethiopian Muslims . And ethiopian Muslims have been practicing their grate religion with out Arabic being their official language . As simple as that . My problem is when he wants to impose Arabic as an official language for ethiopian Muslims .

          • Saleh Johar

            Abinet, I had to go and read Amanuel’s posts. I believe he asked a hypthetical question: “Suppose If the Ethiopian Muslims asked you Arabic to be an official language in Ethiopia, will you go to confrontation or go to accommodation?”

            That is a legitimate question. Forget about Arabic and tey to reply to the question: If a considerable number, segment of your population asked to make Chinese, Urdu, or Swahili as their official language, what would you do? It is just like when Oromya opted for their own language written in Latin, thus rejecting Amharic. I remember there was noise abut it but Ormiya made its choice. Don’t be stuck with Arabic, treat it as any other language. If you see Arabic differently from other languages, and if one can discern some prejudice in the rejection, then the issue is politicized. And if one party politicizes it, the other has full right to do so.

            But I do not think there is any Ethiopian that seriously wants to adopt Arabic as an official language, therefore a debate and a hypothetical question regarding Arabic is moot, in Ethiopia. In Eritrea it is different. Arabic is the choice of at least half the population. As I said earlier, no one should impose his wishes and choices on others, unless it is Haile Sellasie who imposed Amharic on us against our wish.Type your reply…

          • Abinet

            Ato Saleh
            I mostly agree with you regarding Arabic .when it comes to the king,I don’t accuse a 19th century feudal king while living in 21st century . Not that I agree with him in so many cases including eritrean case,I try to see things from his perspective . Back then people used to kill each other for a piece of land. Pride was more important than life itself. If you ask me about the supposed to be modern derg, it is a different story. Derg was an equal opportunity killer.
            Do you know we say ” shaebia is derg in tgrigna?

          • AOsman

            The wife of wedi Ali, after she received support from Eritrean through Assenna, wanted to thank the Eritrean people. She used the two languages to convey her message, it is that simple….

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm4WEJmLhTs&list=UUMKaCcIDaPJc7ELfP75UeYA

            On this topic, PFDJ sounds less radical than many…even if they fell short on the implementation.

            It is also strange when you see some Ethiopians in this forum are itchy when Amanuel mentions Ethiopia, while they are day in and day out shouting about Eritrean issues ……hmmmm.

          • Eyob Medhane

            Abi,

            No I didn’t read it, I definitely wil look for it, though…..Thank you. .

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam Amanuel Hidrat,
            .
            I don’t entertain hypothetical question, was your answer when I asked you some question a while back. Now you come up with one of your own hypothetical question. I have read most of your posts for several years. For the most part I found you well grounded individual but lately I see your glaring imperfections.
            You have said things recently that caused me to pause. You claimed you were discriminated against in Addis Ababa.That blew me away. You seem to be evolving in the wrong direction, now it looks like you are eagerly mining for potential problems for us. The ethnic divisions was the normal avenue, what happened to that. We have Ali Salim for that kind of wishful concerns, not you too.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dear Abinet,

            What is the purpose of a language? Why do many African countries, even some Asian countries use the English language? Why did the Ethiopian higher education institution use English language?Why are you Ethiopians concerned about our choice of languages? Suppose the Muslims in Ethiopia asked you Arabic language as official language in Ethiopia, how you Abinet will handle it? Would you go to religious war by refusing the demand of half of your population? Let me see your common sense in the way how you answer my questions. If you need help, ask T. Kifle to help you on that.

            Amanuel Hidrat

          • T. Kifle

            Mr. Hidrat,

            While waiting Abinet’s reply, allow me say one thing. There is no way Ethiopian Muslism could ask for Arabic to be official language because no Muslim in Ethiopia is an Arab. This is a very very bad question my bro. Muslims use Arabic in religious rituals. There are schools here that teach Arabic but you seem to confuse as if there is “Ethnic religion”. that speaks Arabic as a language. Ethiopian Muslims are diverse in their language background and there is no way you can fit them into a single usable language.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Mr. Kifle,
            Just answer my questions, they are straight forward. I will see how you will resolve the question of language whether it is hypothetical or reality. And please answer the rest of my questions. I want to see how to resolve the contradiction of society.

          • T. Kifle

            Dear Amanuel,
            I didn’t think the other questions warrant answers. That’s why I ignored them in my first reply. But if you insist on , why we, Ethiopians, use English in our universities is because so far we are unable to produce a fitting curriculum in our local languages mainly for lack of know how, logistics and educational inputs. I can’t see any political reasoning around it. Again the few countries I know of in Asia which use English extensively at various levels of government and the wider literature are India and Pakistan courtesy of their stay under the British colony for more than three centuries. The “hypothetical” question you raised about Ethiopian Muslims asking Arabic to be official language is wrong in many accounts even to hypothesise.
            1. According to our constitution, no religion can impose be it language or anything on the state. Religions can decide on what language to use in their religious rituals and teachings but it’s unconstitutional to have an official Muslim Christian language.
            2.Ethiopian Muslims have their own indigenous languages identical to the people with different faiths and creds. A Tigrean Muslim is just Tigraway. An Oromo Muslim is just an Oromo. Why do you think that, for example, these two Tigrean and Oromo Muslims need an “official Arabic language” as a common denominator whatever that means?

            By the way I have no issue about the Arabic language in its own end. What makes it a problem is if it’s applied to homogenise a society at the cost of the indigenous languages.

          • Aninet

            Ato kifle
            There was an article at AAU that discuss about the use of English in higher educational level .
            “Yekolej hisab beAmarigna”
            College mathematics in Amharic . It is very interesting to say the least.

            Ato Amanuel

            Ato Amanuel ,while we are at language issues,why don’t you tell us a little bit about the burning of the Tigre books. I ask you this because I always associate language and identity. What did you feel when you burn the books as an educated person? Do you associate language and identity ?

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dear T. Kifle,

            Now you showed your true color how dismissive you are when you are challenged with tough questions. You see Mr. Kifle I didn’t ask you about religion and what your constitution says about religion. My question was if the Muslim Ethiopian asked you Arabic language to be one of the official language in Ethiopia and bring it as part of their grievances, how do the Ethiopian elites(that includes you) could address this issue? Will you go to confrontation (whatever that confrontation takes you) or will you see language has nothing to do other than for communication purpose (an added value to your diversity) and grant them to address their grievances. I want to see you how to administer grievances of language if it comes up as source of conflict, as you wisely addressed the grievances of your Ethnics (by devolving powers to them). If other countries, and even Ethiopia took English as workable language, what implication does Arabic could have other than the English could? What I am recently observing in the debate from our Ethiopian brothers is to antagonize our differences rather to narrow it. Very sad. But the sane and sober mind will prevail. If you are capable to answer such tough questions….you could still try. But there is no alternative other than the two possible scenario I gave you. And that is either confrontation or accommodation. Take your peak.

          • Abinet

            Your question is so hypothetical .muslims in Ethiopia lived for centuries .they never wanted to use Arabic as their official language . It is the same as if I ask you what would you do if all the kebesas want to go back to Ethiopia ? You seem to argue for the sake of argument by being extremely hypothetical .

          • T. Kifle

            Dear Amanuel,

            True colour? What are you talking about man? Can’t you understand the reasons I gave not once but twice? If you take the issue out of the religious context there is no other way Ethiopian Muslims can ask for a “Muslim language”. Show me if you can in what way the Muslims could bring any language as a grievance for not being official. You cannot create a contradiction that doesn’t exist and diagnose my “true colour”. Arabic in Ethiopian Muslims is purely a religious matter and RELIGIOUS matter is just that RELIGIOUS. I told you religious imposition is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. We don’t have regional states or peoples that speak Arabic. Ethiopian Muslims are intermixed with every other 100 plus Ethnic groups. So as state functionality, there is no iota of use of Arabic. But ALL ETHIOPIAN MUSLIMS use holy scriptures written in Arabic as sources of authentic documents and nowadays translations have been made to local languages as religious consciousness is in the rise(in all religions) so that it has become a MUST to teach the followers in the language they understand. Even the Orthodox church which has lived in the comfort of the Ge’ez language for centuries recognized its weaknesses and the GOSPEL, these days, is being preached in the very language that the faithful speaks. You are blowing the whistle unnecessarily Mr. Amanuel. I am challenging you doing the things you suggested is unconstitutional as well as impractical. Unconstitutional because no religious grouping(Muslim or otherwise) have the right to impose its wish on our secular state and Impractical because we don’t have “Ethnic Muslim” that demands Arabic to be their official language. Now I expect you bring forward a convincing argument why our constitution is wrong instead of judging me unnecessarily as your exit strategy.

          • Abinet

            Are you saying Muslims should speak Arabic ?
            You are comparing apples and oranges.we have a well developed language (official )with its own writing system.we use English as a medium of instruction in high school and beyond. It makes it easier to transfer knowledge .
            I didn’t know Muslims in Ethiopia wanted to use Arabic as their official language . I need your help here.
            Language is more than a means of communication . It is part or your identity.

          • Kokhob Selam

            brother dawit allow me to interfere on this. Amnuel didn’t say Muslims should use Arabic. He said “Suppose the Muslims in Ethiopia asked you Arabic language as official language in Ethiopia, how you Abinet will handle it? ” now, suppose that, what will you do? is again my question to you. Language is for communication. Eritrean people have different languages. Tigrigna is used in most but again there are people who don’t know Tigrigna. it doesn’t mater what religion the society follows but instead of using all languages the other ethnic group can use one language. again and again they have shown interest in making Arabic a common language. I support the idea for 1st. most of other ethnic groups have some knowledge in talking Arabic language again instead of studding each language it is easier one for all. and the most important part of using Arabic language is we are surrounded by Arab countries and communicating with them is important for all future developments. Remember you are going to use one of most used languages ready already (developed) with new modern technologies and all other.

            again it is people language and they can also develop their own tribal language. all should be as per their needs and no one should force. that is democracy isn’t it?

            Religion has nothing to do with religion as some thought. who said Arabic is dominated only to Muslims ?

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Please ditto – the answers I gave to Mr. T.Kifle. Don.t try to ask me before you answer my questions. Are you apt to answer them?

          • Rahwa T

            Selam Amanuel,
            Why are you asking irrelevant question? That is a nonsense question to me. There should not be a religious language as language doesn’t not take to heaven. If all Muslims of the world should make Arabic as their language, then as a protestant what would you prescribe to be the medium o communication for the protestant followers world wide. The same goes to other Christians domains. So you are bringing something that is too hypothetical when it comes to the Ethiopian Muslims. If we entertain such question, then we have also to allow religious political parties and may be bringing the total number of languages into three and abolish the rest. Does that make sense to you?

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Selam Rahwa,

            Thanks God we don’t have such grievances is one thing, facing the reality with such grievances is another thing. The point is you can’t rule out the possibilities and probabilities in life. If this doesn’t happen in Ethiopia it happened somewhere else read literature. This is the basic test in politics. How do you manage grievances with whatever shape of form you encountered it.

            Recall all the previous governments of Ethiopia how they were handling the grievances of Ethiopian ethnics. It was a taboo to talk about the rights of your ethnic. If the current government with the approval of the Ethiopian people wouldn’t address this, I couldn’t imagine what the face of Ethiopia could have been. EPRDF saw the danger in front of them and they found the solution “a federal government.” A big credit to the EPRDF. So my question was how about if they face with the question of language. The good thing is, the ruling party is ahead of the Ethiopian people and if it happened I am sure their reply will not be like your replies. Managing politics is not talking forums like this.

        • dawit

          It is the reverse psychology of your latest theory on identity crisis. Again can you reproduce a proof PIA used Arabic to address Ethiopian people! or is this another ‘urban myth’, of how Eritrea became the number one Coffee exporter of Africa! “ያይጥ ምስክሯ ድንቢጥ” እንዲሉ

          • Abinet

            I am glad you sound ashamed of it . It is a good start to see how IA has a messed up identity. Sorry dawit ,it happened during the conference held in addis to establish the transitional government . I know it hurts. I feel your pain.

          • dawit

            The reverse psychology is the application of you theory on the Tigrai people unable to speak and write in their native languages for generations because of Amara domination ever since they prostrated in front of Menelik caryin stone. Obviously you don’t get it. Your proof about PIA was fed to you by your mentor TK. Still no proof but ኣሉ ባልታ. In those days they were reports how EPRDF armed Eritreans to attack their Amhara neighbors written in Ethiopian Reviews. The latest Ethiopian Review claim is how Isaias kidnapped Andargachew in Yemen and gave it to Ethiopia! You know you could not reproduce your claim how Eritrea became the number one Coffee producer in Africa! and I am sure you will not have for your latest fabrication PIA addressing people in Arabic.
            dawit

      • Tesfabirhan WR

        T. Kifle,

        Working on a theory is fine as you witnessed first hand for the YG claim of Ghedli identity. Your vacant theory got some falsified fortification by accusing Sal and SGJ. Theory does not zork in that way. We will increase your horizon so that you will better have a betterenment of your imagined view. Sal and SGJ honestly and friendly asked you to bring a proof of your unsourced allegation. In fact, they gave you too much credit according to my opinion.

        You started your theory, better a hypothesis, by going back to the Italian period in which you tried to defer from YG. Scientifically speaking, Eritreans have an identity that can only be defined by the Eritreans themselves. Do not again consider this as your unfounded allegation against the superiority complex. Think about the nine ethnic groups of Eritrea first while trying to speak on our identity. Though you consider Eritrea as the Kebessa only, we Eritreans first and for most have an identity that is out of the subset of colonized mindset. Then, after you can think of the colonizers and like the fuedal war mongers emperors and dictators fro, Ethiopia can think of about.

        The Ghedli generation is too young to have a complete domination though PFDJ equally as that of YG claimed his influenced the Eritrean value.

        Therefore stop theorizing our identity. Academically you can reach up to some level of solving the Eritrean identity by visiting the owners, the 9 ethnic groups. Else, it is only a fatal error to try so. Your theory is based on the current Eritrean problems, I understand your basic scientific search, just like YG.

        To be more friendly with you, our current problem is not a question of identity. It is just a continuation of brutal colonizers and annexers. if you want justice; fight for justice. This is ,y friendly message for you. If not, we are equally here to share our values, a diversified Eritrean values, just like an Ethiopian diversified values.

        tes

  • haileTG

    Dear Serray the trouble maker – gdef eba bejaKa 🙂

    Your theories are well laid out and given that no one knows the exact course of events in those days, I would imagine there may well be a chance that they hold. I am not here to defend that IA is incapable of starting a war, from the way he talks and acts, I am all ears to hear any theory (including that he might have sold his own grandmother in one of the festivals bazaars). The guy is so crooked, it is hard not to believe anything said about him. The point I am making is different. A point that states facts that are outlined in black and white in the decisions rendered through the various proceedings.

    – EECC was set up under article 5 of the peace treaty to settle matters of LAW

    – The commission that was proscribed to be set up under article 3 was intended to address matters of fact as it relates to “the events of May 1998”.

    EECC acknowledged that it doesn’t intend to play afoul of the commission (that was to be set up under article 3) when it declined Ethiopia’s questions on “interpretation”

    Eritrean side protested the finding by saying exactly to what I am saying here, i.e. the EECC overstepped its mandate. The EECC said it didn’t because all it is doing is ascertaining the legality of “use of force” on May 6 1998, without delving into issues of “origins of the war” or “matters that resulted in misunderstandings” between the parties.

    Now then:

    – You said the regime didn’t bother to invoke technicalities. It actually did serray. It is recorded for posterity. It is a couple of clicks away from here. Why do we need to erase facts?

    “…II. JURISDICTION
    3. Eritrea asserted that the Commission has no jurisdiction over this issue, because the Agreement, in Article 3, assigns the responsibility to address it to another body…”

    file:///C:/Users/user/Downloads/FINAL%20ET%20JAB%20(2).pdf

    The EECC didn’t accept that because it didn’t see that it overstepped its jurisdiction. It stated

    “… Determination of the origins of the conflict and the nature of any misunderstandings about the border, had they been made by the impartial body anticipated by Article 3, could have been helpful in promoting reconciliation and border delimitation…”

    The above clearly shows you the EECC never considered its mission nor attempted to answer the question that you are asking for and Ethiopia asked at the time (along a demand for compensation of $14 billion), to which the commission asserted:

    “…The evidence indicated that Eritrea’s armed forces were more fully mobilized than those of Ethiopia and thus had the initiative in the first several months of the war, but that does not prove that Eritrea’s actions, other than those in the areas of what became known as the Western Front addressed in this Partial Award, were predetermined…”

    In as far as the May 12 incidents are concerned, the EECC found Ethiopia’s procedural methodology of dealing with the hostilities (its notification of the UNSC) correct and Eritrea’s claim of self defense inconsistent with international law, but stopped short of endorsing Ethiopia’s claim that it was a full fledged invasion by Eritrea.

    Now, if an investigation takes place and tells us that the this was a war and entirely the making of IA for purposes of domestic power grab, then knowing him nothing would surprise me. All I am saying is that this is your theory (also shared by many), yet “the EECC or other legal body has determined that” is a narrative not supported by fact.

    I don’t think such investigation could be carried out now, nor do I see it having any practical value in any case. Both countries have moved on so much that they probably won’t consider it worth while.

    The key distinctions I want you to draw is:

    – The badme incident ignited a war….true
    – The reason for the badme incident has been investigated….false
    – IA played the most complicating role in all of these…most likely
    – Ethiopia played complicating role in all of these….most likely
    – The people of both countries played complicating roles in all of these… most likely.

    So, I don’t see why only Eritreans have to be singled out for flogging in your book 🙂

    regards

  • saay7

    Serray the Sublime:

    To say that Isaias ignited the Badme war to kill the Eritrean constitution means that regardless of how all the events the preceded the Badme war had turned out, then the Badme war would still have happened.

    What this means is this: that if Ethiopia had accepted the terms of the Nakfa-Birr conversion proposed by Eritrea, the war would still have happened. If the border negotiations that were going on between Eritrea and Ethiopia had gone exactly the way Eritrea wanted them, the war would have happened.

    If, per schedule, the constitution had taken effect in May 1998, Isaias and the PFDJ still could have gotten a minimum of 20-year rule (just look at TPLF in Tigray) so what would have been the urgency to kill it then. The constitution allowed him two five year terms. The constitution reflected the zeitgeist of the era (term limits!) and could have always have been amended to eliminate that clause to give him two more terms. My point is there are many, many ways Isaias could have had constitutional legitimacy.

    I will let Haile deal with what EECC said (and didn’t say).

    All the messes that Isaias is leaving Eritrea are ordinary messes that any government with AVERAGE competence can handle. As a smart Awatista once said (that’s you, Serray) that PFDJ has the reverse Midas touch: it is only because its egregiously mad that its problems appear insurmountable:)

    saay

    • Serray

      Selamat Sal,

      Both the currency and border negotiations would have been resolved peacefully. I am saying, that is what isaias was afraid of. Almost all countries have currencies, few go to war to force other countries to lower their exchange rate or not use a third currency. The border negotiation was still going on; the EECC said days before he ignited the war, efrem was in AA and left suddenly. You see, isaias WORKED so that these things not get resolved.

      Second, Isaias knew his incompetency way better than we did. If the constitution was fully implement and multi-parties entered the race, in a free election after the first one, isaias would have had a hard time convincing people he is the best for the job. With woyanes wising up, the unbelievable corruption and incompetence of pfdj enterprises revealed, people would have seen how dumb he is running the economy. He knew that; he knew that before 1991. Isaias and the pfdj wouldn’t have survived past the first free election. What bothered them is not just losing an election, that would be the first step but a new government would have stricken pfdj’s ownership of the country’s wealth and that was a blow none of them would have accepted lying down.

      Free election would have been the end of isaias and shaebia’s dominance of eritrean economy. That is why he needed a war to stop the constitution from taking effect. What we seen in eritrea today is, shaebia at its best. Election or no election, this is the way shaebia rules. The problem for them is, if there was free election, people will throw them out after winning the first election. Not 20 years, Sal, after only five years isaias and pfdj would have found their behind in the street with little financial power.

      • saay7

        Come on Serray:

        You are being “Eritrea-romantic” when you say that PFDJ would have not made it past the first election. Why would we be different from any other Afeican country: the incumbent party finds ever creative ways to stay in power. Look at all the “New Generation” of African leaders that came to power with Isaias: the parties of Museveni, Kagame, Meles: they are still in power getting re-elected by huge margins. So you mean to tell me that PFDJ is not capable of rigging elections or are you saying that Eritreans are so experienced in democratic traditions that we wouldn’t put up with rigged elections.

        One of the biggests flaws in the argument of…um.. those who are quick with the “Ghedli romantic” accusation is that they look at the present and assume that it was the only possible outcome of Ghedli. Au contraire. I think there were many different possibilities and the most likely one was a pseudo democracy (“guarded democracy”) where the path to truly contested political pluralism would take decades to achieve with frequent reversal. The one we have, swimming in quicksand, was not premeditated.

        saay

        • Semere Andom

          Selam Sal:
          Yom Sayim ana mnsiyset but I will say that if this was not premeditated then it means you are asking de-romantics to charge PFDJ with involuntary manslaughter 🙂

          • saay7

            Hi Sem:

            How we got into the mess is not pre-meditated but once the Isaiasists stumbled to the mess, everything the did and do is with the assumption that nobody will believe it was not premeditated. So, like all scandals, the cover-up is worse than the crime. More murders were committed to cover-up the manslaughter. Including upon the PFDJ. Refer to the update we published on the Central Committee members of the PFDJ.

            saay

          • Saleh Johar

            Saay, ed’Ee! gega yKhlaaley ember!

            I would say, “committed upon members of the PFDJ” not the PFDJ committed a crime against PFDJ, because PFDJ, the institution is doing the crimes, otherwise, who do you hold responsible when someone committing a crime against himself, like a suicide? That would be the PFDJ committing a crime against the PFDJ, against itself. If we separate the members from the institution, we can avoid the confusion. If someone is expelled from a club, he doesn’t belong to it anymore, we can then say the club expelled him. We can’t say the club expelled the club. Substitute the PFDJ with any name of an association, Uqub, jemEeya, etc, and you will see the difference. A church excommunicated someone, and it is not the church excommunicating itself, but a member.

          • saay7

            SabaH alKheir abu Salah:

            Somebody can do damage to individuals or to an institution. For example, a terrible minister (let’s say Minister of Defense or, in Malaysia, Minister of Transportation) can do damage to the reputation of the entire ministry he presides over and is a member of. The governor of California can do damage to Californians or to the entire State of California. Similarly, the chairman of the PFDJ can do massive damage to the PFDJ (as an institution) and to its members (as individuals.) He has done both. Political institutions require minimal activities without which they atrophy and die: meetings, elections, reviews and assessments, etc. Isaias denied PFDJ all of these to systematically to starve it to death.

            saay

        • Serray

          Selamat Sal and Haile TG,

          Sal,

          Both the currency and border negotiations would have been resolved peacefully. I am saying, that is what isaias was afraid of. Almost all countries have currencies, few go to war to force other countries to lower their exchange rate or not to use a third currency to settle macro transactions.

          The border negotiation was still going days before he ignited the war, the EECC said Efrem was in AA and left suddenly (I guess when preparation for war entered the final stage). You see, isaias WORKED so that these things not get resolved. Isaias knew his incompetency way better than we did. If the constitution was fully implement and multi-parties entered the race, in a free election after the first one (he wouldhave won the first election by inertia), isaias would have had a hard time convincing people he is the best for the job. With woyanes wising up, the unbelievable corruption and incompetence of pfdj enterprises revealed, people would have seen how dumb he is running the economy. He knew that; he knew that before 1991. Isaias and the pfdj wouldn’t have survived past the first free election. What bothered them is not just losing an election, that would be the first step but a new government would have stricken pfdj’s ownership of the country’s wealth and that was a blow none of them would have accepted lying down.

          Free election would have been the end of isaias and shaebia’s dominance of eritrean economy. That is why he needed a war to stop the constitution from taking effect. What we seen in eritrea today is shaebia at its best. Election or no election, this is the way shaebia rules. The problem for them is if there was free election, people will throw them out after winning the first election. Not 20 years, Sal, after only five years isaias and pfdj would have found their behind in the street with little financial power (I feel I am repeating myself but it is worth repeating).

          Haile HG,

          Just to clarify about the technicalities: I hear you. I read the link you provided that the EECC’s authority was limited to the appropriateness of “use of force” in determining the claims. Eritrea was found guilty and the ethiopians played their card right. What I am calling technicality is, since there are two parties to this war, the one found guilty of using force inappropriately ignited the war.

          You wrote about setting up a new commission to investigate the origin of the war, “I don’t think such investigation could be carried out now, nor do I see it having any practical value in any case. Both countries have moved on so much that they probably won’t consider it worth while”. I agree and since common sense, logic, isaias’s nature point to the fact the he did, let us not bury this because if we did like so many things in our past, President Sal might be tempted if PM T. kifle loaned him a defective helicopter for his vacation to Awassa or Mombassa . But most importantly, as much as you want to leave this part hanging in the air, I am afraid the woyanes (not all ethiopian) won’t let you. I think thier minimum requirement of engagement is accepting that. I personally think it will do us a lot of good if we own Djibouti, Yemen, Badme so we can say never again and mean it.

          • saay7

            Selamat Serray:

            I don’t really understand what your point is here.

            (1) Nations are governed by treaties and for any post-Isaias Eritrean government to be treated seriously, it HAS to accept that it is bound by all treaties that Eritrea (which, unfortunately for us, means whatever Isaias did in his decades of misrule) is bound by.

            (2) One of these is the EECC ruling which found that Eritrea (respondent) invaded Ethiopia (claimant) (para 15 of EECC) on May 12 (para 15 of EECC) but that the claimant’s argument that all subsequent attacks by the respondent “were pre-planned and coordinated unlawful uses of forces fails for lack of proof.” Having established these, the EECC gave detailed findings on damages on all the war fronts: some against Eritrea and some against Ethiopia.

            (3) One of these treaties is also the EEBC which found that Badme belongs is part of Eritrea.

            President Sal or Serray or Haile TG (my vote, actually:) is going to be bound by treaties and obligations that Eritrea has regardless of his own personal sentiments. The problem we have is over on the other side of Mereb, there are Ethiopians (you have heard T.Kifle articulate their view) who are saying that no matter what treaties Ethiopia enters to, no matter what international law says, we are going to substitute our wishes for it because, dammit, we feel like it.

            I can understand this sentiment if it is accompanied by an honest, “we will insist on it because we can: we won, we are bigger and good luck getting it back.” That, I can work with. What I am having a hard time understanding is that it is being presented with a lot of psychobabble about Italian colonialism, Ghedli, Eritrean elite, etc. Is he saying, “it is bitter medicine but it will heal you from all your ailments which I have uncovered?” If so, won’t President Haile TG be really worried when he is given a defective helicopter because knocking him off may also be, “you don’t understand it now, but I just did you a big favor.” I worry about Haile TG 🙂

            saay

          • Semere Andom

            Sal:
            President Sal God forbade, Haile TG Tefaena, president Tzegreda, I second but how about a compromise presidential candidate, President Aman H with a running mate Semere Andom and Serrayas house speaker;-)
            This way we have all the balanced policy needs of Sal, Haile TG 😉

          • saay7

            Sem:

            Are we doing that thing that we do when we are bored: have cyber elections?)

            Ok here are my candidates:

            President: Dr Sara or Tzgereda
            Defense Minister: PEACE
            Foreign Minister: Serray
            Ambassador to UN: Emma
            Ambassador to AU: Kokob Selam
            Ministry of Health (Dentistry) Nitricc
            Ministry of Tourism: Semere A
            Ministry of National Security: Mahmuday
            Chancellor Asmara University: Ghezae Hagos
            Ministry of Land and Development: Rodab
            Ministry of Transportation: Ali Salim
            Minstry of Art and Literature: Papillon
            Ministry of Labor and Human Dev: TG
            Ministry of Finance: some guy from Singapore
            etc.

            saa

          • Semere Andom

            Hi Sal:
            I cannot stop laughing from all these people, Mahmuday in security that poking my eyes, “abaye” 🙂
            I support you on Nitricc and the women presidents and I can live with the rest to, but Ministry of tourism and FA Serray bad idea, you know that is not our talent, you just want to disappear us from the action:-)

          • Rodab

            Alora Sal,
            Why do we need all these ministries anyway? We need to overhaul the whole system to comprise a vice-presidency and only three ministries: interior, defense, and foreign affairs. Put the other ones like education, justice, agriculture, health…as departments under the ministry of interior.

        • Serray

          Selamat Sal,

          Eritrean romantic, you know my favorite people on earth are eritreans.

          My view on the constitution is even if isaias implements it, I am fine with it. The reason is simple, for some people it is all or none and a multi party election is death sentence to isaias and his human trafficking crew. Shaebia was fracturing after the 1993 semi-riot, the shooting of the disabled and the divergent voices after the war and my calculation is that the pfdj party itself will split into two and the renegade party will tighten the screws on isaias’s faction. Even if it is implemented today, the most potent opposition to pfdj will come out of pfdj. The unequal distribution of the loot have created a very formidable disgruntled section within shaebia itself. Yes, isaias will try to fix the election but since the opposition is coming from within, legally, he has to pull Sep 18, 2001 again to win.

          Isaias knows that, that’s why he decided to kill the constitution even after shelving it for a decade and half. There is something about it (and about us) that makes him do this. Other african rulers have boogymen from inside to make one section of their society to fall inline, Isaias have none because the other formidable party will come from the same place.

  • saay7

    Selam Guest:

    So far, so good! I don’t know what the context is (he appears to be addressing people who claim to be religious but don’t know morality)… Here’s my favorite from what you excerpted:

    የእውነት መፅሃፍ ቅዱስ አማኝ ከሆንክ የምትጠላው ማንንም ሳይሆን ግፍን ነው !! በደልን ነው ! ለተበደሉ ለአለም ህዝቦች ሁሉ ብረት አንስተህ የምትፋለም ቸጎቬራ ሁን አልልህም …ግን በደልን በየጓዳህ ተፀየፍ ! የሰው ደም በምንም ምክንያት ይሁን መፍሰሱ አያስደስትህ !

    Sounds like a secular humanist message to me, which is my cup of tea.

    አመሰግናለሁ. ከቻልክ ደግሞ እዮብ መድሀነን መልእክቱ ላክልኝ…. ጉረኛ ነው ልጁ:)))))

    saay

  • Mahmud Saleh

    Dear awatistas and dear T.Kifle;

    1. What I like about you TK is you speak your mind, easy to pick your manufactured lies, hence, millions are going to lose their teeth laughing it out. No wonder, you guys made all those who trusted you toothless. Now, to be fair, you made a point, you said “nothing strange about it.” Yes, the fact that TPLF acted way beyond its means is nothing about it; the fact that TPLF has tried to buy Ethiopian loyalty at the expense of Eritreans is nothing new; the fact that TPLF has made Eritrea a sacrificial lamb in order to gain legitimacy is nothing new about it. So, the story goes like this: You see, TPLF long before it even decided what to do with itself, it drew a big map, much bigger than the well defined Awraja of Tigray, well, then they tried to shove that huge map down Eritreans throat. Mind you, this was done when they came to get trained; and when they were really in need of assistance from the EPLF. They were given the asistance and training but they were advised to think about that big map which included huge swathes of Eritrean land. Now that was the typical TPLF acting out before it even took baby steps. EPLF ignored it. EPLF was way wiser and maturer. It told TPLF first thing first- fight the common enemy, just fight.

    2. TPLF kept its confused strategy of wasting resources on secondary border issues, in the late seventies and it logged itself in a life and death battles with ELF. The reason was TPLF’s occupation of sovereign Eritrean land. That followed joining its supporter, the EPLF, in driving ELF out of Eritrea. However, things didn’t end there. TPLF turned back to its supporter, the legendary EPLF, and insisted on occupying Badme and its environs. It went as far as showing readiness to spill blood over it. EPLF decided to ignore it. EPLF told TPLF first thing first, let’s first get rid of our common enemy. That decision will need to be studied. Probably, it will be identified as the single most costly error EPLF made. But here is the thing with TPLF, the leadership would send their barking dogs to instigate conflicts, and then when committees of both organizations met, they would say ” No, these guys are just acting on their own, but since they have some clout in the leadership and the people, just ignore them; it’s not the official policy, you know we are doing together more than this little thing; so why don’t you guys let it go, we will solve it tomorrow when our enemy is gone.” That discernible wayane-leadership line repeated itself in the border talks after independence too. Who do we blame? Ourselves. But it shows wayane-leadership displayed cheating, double-talking, and treachery from day one. Shaebia reminded wayane-leadership to focus on the task at hand. There was also the heroes of Tigray who would focus on the task (tegadelti and people).

    3. In early 1980s, TPLF came up yet with another twist. Now, it openly accused the military strategy of EPLF. It’s weird, because, TPLF had not experienced the pressure EPLF was experiencing. Military strategy depends on many factors; some of them include: the nature of war (the biggest and the best army of Ethiopia was battling to pin down, choke and kill Eritrean revolution. In the process defense lines running hundreds of kilometers developed, TPLF didn’t have that pressure; it continued as a light guerrilla attacking well surveyed garrisons and disrupting supply lines after which it would melt in the villages or move away in to its bases); another factor is topography, EPLF had to take advantage of the formidable passes of Sahel ranges; another factor is the size of the Waring parties and areas of theater; both EPLF and Derg were big enough to combine trench, mobile, and special forces warfare and, hence, their command and control structure would have to reflect that reality or the function (some thing which makes organizations unique to their function); another factor is the viability and safety of supply and logistics network. If TPLF leadership could run for a motn the battles which were raging in Sahel, probably they wold understand the need of pinning down the best and the biggest chunk of Dergarmy in an elaborately developed draining schemes, which allowed EPLF to hit behind enemy lines and in Ethiopia at will. They would understand that those types of continuous heavy engagements needed uninterrupted supply lines and a formidable base to support them. And that’s what TPLF leadership was told. It was also told to mind its business. Perhaps TPLF leadership concluded there were no arms to twist in Eritrea; they parted their way; and they launched a defamation campaign against EPLF. They would go wherever they found a hearing ear, including in to Sudanese refugee camps, telling Eritreans to oust EPLF. Shaebia told TPLF, actually it didn’t tell it anything. EPLF told its ranks and files to ignore them. TPLF went through more than 5 years of hibernation. At the end of 80s, when it smelled victory, it came out of the blue asking EPLF if they could work together. By that time, the best and the biggest army of Ethiopia fighting Eritreans had shown a clear sign of teetering on the verge of collapse. TPLF sensed that. The way they are, now again, they started blabbing about where to go; which way to do it, which army/city/sector …to hit first. EPLF told them to mind their business, but provided them with the capabilities they lacked. Now, suddenly they found themselves facing fortified enemy lines. While shaebia developed capabilities of mechanized warfare, TPLF didn’t. They understood shaebias military strategy when the need of mechanized and heavy artillery units was clear, when capabilities of electronic interception were needed, when the experience of carrying multiple pronged attacks was needed; when they made up their mind in marching towards addis, they realized they didn’t have a clue about the military strategy they were lecturing shaebia. Shaebia, by that time, thanks to its combined continuous engagements, EPLF had developed technical capabilities and more than enough hardware of modern war that it sent its best mechanized units commanders, well armed AND commanded by a war hardened EPLF mechanized units commander ( and EPLF central committee member) to help them our all the way to Addis. This has nothing to do with bragging; it’s history captured in writing and audio/video. It has also nothing to do with the hero TPLF tegadalay, it was cooperation for a common good. They helped us when we needed it and we helped them when they needed it. Even during those high years, shaebia has been restrained from projecting a paternalistic attitude despite the fact that it was on the receiving end. Anyway, the assistance was given to them and the rest is history.

    4. What you see in all the major stages of the relationship is this pattern: There is always a constant struggle between a decent faction and a hardcore, anti-Eritrea, faction. Many peace loving sons of Tigray gave their lives in Eritrea and the opposite is true. However, the relationship between Eritreans and Tigreans has always been dominated by the vocal anti-Eritrean faction. That faction, then, considered its relationship with Eritreans as tactical, and that’s what we have finally seen. That faction demands respect without respecting others; it professes how bad Eritreans are without listening to how its own compatriots describe it.It is not a surprise if it busies itself with characterizing Eritrean identity as it sees fit; it’s always done things which are way over its head.

    5. Today, that hardcore anti-Eritrean faction continues to rewrite history. Eritreans in Tigray are facing this same degrading treatments. First hand accounts tell of a familiar story. When Eritreans cross in to Ethiopia, they get welcomed decently by the army and the villagers. Things get ugly when they face these hardcore elements in the receiving stations and then, even while in UN designated camps. These anti-Eritrea keep reminding Eritreans of their “deformed” identity, how TPLF saved Eritrean struggle,etc., similar to what we hear here.
    6. I will have to reaffirm my belief that both people and, particularly,the new generation should work towards hopeful future. One of this elements said in this forum that there is no” equal” status between Eritrea and Ethiopia. Well, what he doesn’t understand is all sovereign nations conduct their business on equal status, that’s what international relations dictate. Ethiopia has the same vote that Djibouti in the UN has. Mass should not blind you. Another point that Eritreans should highlight is this:Eritrea’s relation with Ethiopia could play a strategic role in our development, only if Ethiopia wishes to enter in to dialogue of equals, otherwise, it won’t be a prerequisite for Eritrea’s renaissance. Our prerequisite is establishing a government of the people, the rest will follow.
    7. On identity: Well, TK, what you think of yourself may not be the same as what other Ethiopians make out of it let alone others. But you define your identity, I respect it. Let’s leave it there.

    • @Mahmuday
      what is up ma man? we got to get back to our unfinished business and let’s meet at the top of the current thread; where an old is acting it all. I will b posting my inquiery up there and look for it. your time is well invested with me, rather than with like of T-K’s and my time is invested learning things that i will apply in my life, the life committed to serve, protect and to free and prosperity of Eritrea.
      reading your post on this one, i see your hope and desire to see the two nations to live in peace and hormney

      • Mahmud Saleh

        Nitricc;
        I understand what you mean, just be careful not to judge the whole people by looking at some bad individuals or groups. I tend to believe there is a potential beyond this hell bent clique of elites. Now, what you’ve got for me? I’ll meet you there, but easy, man.

        • I know i feel gulty by doing so over looking and ignoring a great people such as Fanti Ghana. I know i have been hypocite when i ignore such fine people like Fanti but people like TK BERING OUT THE WOREST IN ME. So, you are right i should be carfull not togenerlize. For that i stand corrected.

    • saay7

      Mahmoudai:

      Related to the subject, excerpts from Colonel Tsegu Fessehaye’s “ita Hb’eti Selfi” (The Hidden Party). More support for your argument:)

      saay

  • saay7

    Selamat Olana:

    If the State of Tigray tells me how to develop economically, I will pay a lot of attention. Contrary to what you think (dark side?), I watch a lot of Tigray videos/documentaries and I am very impressed with its developments and I am very happy for the people of Tigray.

    If the State of Tigray and TPLF give me a lecture on how to manage a diverse society and how to implement democracy, I will be skeptical because:

    (a) they come from a state that is not diverse. (Refer to the last Ethiopian census on the state of Tigray)
    (b) 23 years later, the TPLF essentially runs a 1-party state (refer to the 2010 election results.)

    Links can be provided upon request.

    saay

    • destaa

      dear saay, if you want to know about more recent Ethiopian activities, the book called Mehamud ga Tebikign by Mohammed Selman is very nice observation. Also, currently the most famous writers on facebook include https://www.facebook.com/alex.abreham.31?fref=ts
      and https://www.facebook.com/abere.ayalew.1?fref=ts
      I hope this will be more informative and I really enjoy what you right here and appreciate your honesty

      • saay7

        Selam destaa:

        Thanks for the tip. I am now following both (one has reached his “friends” limit and can’t accept anymore.) content-wise, they got nothing on what My buddy Eyob Medhane can be (with his encyclopedic knowledge of contemporary Ethiopia and his wit) entay’mo entay’mo… The Habesha Burden kebedew:)

        In their profiles, both say they are fans of Obama…Usually a deal-breaker for me but I will overlook their judgement flaws in the interest of regional peace:))). I think one has a Klout Score of 65 which puts him in the top 10 percentile worldwide:)

        saay

        • Eyob Medhane

          Sal,

          Check out the BBC story that I have left for Gash Saleh, as an offering for ‘irq’. (He didn’t take offering :-)) Anything written about Shashemenne is worth reading… -)
          http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28059303

          • saay7

            Eyobai:

            I read it when you posted it. Guess what I was thinking to myself? If, in the article, you substitute “Johar” for McLeod and “Younis” for Dr Giulia Bonacci, Eyob would have blown a fuse. All the zeraf waving arengwade bicha qey would have been akkkkekkke and zerafing us. Even the editor of Ethiopian Meret would have shown up:) But, ferenj sle honu Eyob is oh-so-civilized. So, it is never what is said, but who says it and how. This message of “Now You Know” brought to you by awate forum:)

            saay

          • Eyob Medhane

            Sal,

            For the first and last time, I was severely spanked was for going to Melka Ada (Rasta village), when I was about 10. A friend of mine who was so enamourd with their hair (who by the way now lives in your town and sports dreadlocks) insisted that we went. There was no bajaj then, and we paid 2birr each for a gari (horse drown cart) from Shashemene for a journey that was about 10miles, which seemed so far then. The stupid gari driver took our money took us there, and told us that he will be back to return us back to town, when comes back for his routine trip, and we agreed to pay him more for returning us home, when he comes back. He came back alright. Do you know who he came back with? With the very ‘mean’ uncle of my friend and with my furious mom. Apparently, after he dropped us off, he went straight to our family’s house and I am sure got some more couple of birr for his ‘concern’ and ‘honesty’. He sold us out.. We immidiately were taken home and repeatedly asked ‘did they give you anything?’ ‘Did they make you do anything?’did you smell anything?’ All they wanted to know was, if we smoked, but they just couldn’t utter the word, because it was so taboo to say it. My dad made a declaration for me even not to look at anyone with dreadlocks, for a long time I was so afraid even to look at them….That’s what I remembered with this article. And, no…the ‘ferenjis’ didn’t say much that I ‘violently’ disagree with. They were just a bit misinformed. I may be more vocal with you or Gash Saleh, because I have higher standard for you to know better than them… 🙂

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam Eyob,
            .
            Ha ha, very good gem story. The African saying that it takes a village to raise a child makes total sense, doesn’t it?.
            .
            I wonder what would have happened to some of us if the village people did not care for whatever reason.
            Just imagine if they were able to convert you, you would have missed all the nice discussions with Mr Johar. However, on the other hand, if you were a successful Rastafarian, he might have to accept your faith. That would be one more monkey wrench in his definitions exercise.
            .
            K.H

    • feven1

      “If the State of Tigray and TPLF give me a lecture on how to manage a
      diverse society and how to implement democracy, I will be skeptical
      because: they(Tigrians) come from a state that is not diverse”.But they can at least lecture you
      on how to manage one of the 9 eritrean “states” you belong to…don’t
      you think…unless of course you believe in Amharazation ooooops,
      Hamasieniazation of Eritrea…

  • Hayat Adem

    Dear Awatistas:

    Golden rule of engagement we all need to remember is sticking to the one issue it cause you to react. Example,

    A (Ethiopian) states: “Eritrean basic services are crumbling fast”.
    B (Eritrean): (thinks not only that A is wrong and falsifiable, but he suspects A has negative intentions in saying that)

    Now, what is the most effective way to argue around (from the options below):
    1) B states the falsehood of A’s claim and goes to an explanation supported with evidence as to why A is wrong
    2) B states the falsehood of A’s claim and goes to explanation supported with evidence as to why A is wrong and adds her/his suspicion as to why A wants to bring that false claim
    3) B states the falsehood of A’s claim and goes to explanation supported with evidence as to why A is wrong and adds his suspicion as to why A wants to bring that false claim, and goes further how as bad or worse Ethiopia’s service sector is.
    If s/he goes for option 2, B will undermining her/his evidence-supported counter-argument by including his opinion about unverified and only suspicion-based allegations. Even if her/suspicion were even more likely valid than not, they have no much to do with falsifying the stated claim by A. Such approaches only provoke much emotions and smokescreens, and a lot of stirred emotions and misunderstandings follow. What is added in Option 3 a typical way of forking out the argument and about multiplying the misunderstanding. That way, no effective discussion is going to happen either on the initial issue or the one that is brought up by B. The commonly observed approaches witnessed in this forum: “what about yours; who are you to tell me this; I know why you are saying because you are such and such; …” would never lead to a settlement of one discussion point either in agreement or in a good-mannered disagreement.

    I think you all will agree with me the best way for B to handle that argument is to stay at option 1 and see it through all the way to a natural conclusion, and initiate another thread if s/he wants to include other points that are not addressed here.
    Hayat

  • Kaddis

    Saay –

    Although you have enough comments from Addis café goers on Eritrea – for me – raising Eritrea with my friends as a discussion is a discussion killer. We are in the late 30’s with fair potential in the opinion circle. My mild observation – I feel EPRDF is very much liked just for their awareness and handling of the Eritrean issue. Everyone knows the opposition is clueless about Eritrea except for repeating Dergue’s and HS lines. I don’t think the ethnic groups in Ethiopia are organised enough or find it important of taking a position towards Eritrea. Maybe their opposition parties. And they are less influential than a traffic police at Megenagna round about. If he messed up you won’t be home until 9 PM:-)

    Ethiopians learnt the complication of the Eritrean issue in a hard way. One thing I notice here at Awate, with Eritreans and some Ethiopians living abroad, is you have failed to notice how much the central – Addis based – only Amharic speaking oldies who think AAU is Cornell – group voice is getting weaker and weaker by the day. Regions and regional elites and their capitals, the military, the businesses ( not the Garagistas you left in the 90s.) the international circle, the returnees,
    are gaining weight. No single group drives the political economic decisions. It’s really hard to explain it here but I come to Awate to learn history and history only. Ok ‘identity 101’ as well 🙂 Because Eritrean’s view – even of those very pragmatic – didn’t move an inch towards Ethiopia.

    We are living in a city Addis attracting equity firms, with real capitals, company CEO’s who only comes to discuss with the PM and business delegates who are overbooking the hotels. All this make the urbanities live in a certain sophistication which they are finding it too difficult and irrelevant to focus in a neighbouring country which is not inviting economically or evenleisure. As time goes – memory fades. Gash Saleh – No more Ras Hotel, National theatre and Anbessa bar please. Although I love the place – seriously – maybe it will come back to life when it becomes the ‘financial district’ as planned. If
    you follow closely, the Eth PM responds to more economical issues than regional ones. Like the rumoured/ lobbied (by WB) devaluation of birr. He is not compelled at all from the elite society to change / update its policy towards Eritrea. I don’t know what will.

    Serray recently said – he feels Ethiopians in this site comes to repeat how much Eritrea is screwed but not to give hope. Like I said earlier – I cannot take any discussion from here and reflect it among my friends. It does not really relate to us. Give it a push and discuss current issues and maybe people may react positively. And be ready to learn new things about the current Ethiopia. Not just the past.

    My hope in the coming new year is to see more discussion to identify who are the most influential combination of people and group in the diplomatic, political and military circles in Ethiopia; find a way to address them and influence them to make a progressive engagement with Eritrea. There are still formidable society. some related to Eritrea as well, which truly believes in the strong, hardworking and confident Eritrean society. The more you wait – the less they are getting. You can also start from your own Western capitals, regional entities, AU ( by the way AU calls the diaspora our 6th region of Africa ) Unless Eritreans still think there is no int’l institution worth addressing unless when you want to register a new country 🙂 And don’t vilify AU – it’s the reflection of the continent – and that’s what we have as Africans.

    Its just my New Year reflection and sorry for the politically conscious words – T. kflen yaye – be esat ayichawatim 🙂

    • saay7

      Selamat Kaddis:

      What a breath of fresh air you are. I understand everything you said and I agree with nearly all of it, except one, and I ask you to be a little patient with me as I tell you why I differ. The statement is “Because Eritrean’s view – even of those very pragmatic – didn’t move an inch towards to Ethiopia.” I feel I can speak with some authority on this subject because the website you are reading doesn’t just have history/identity 101 but also a news service (Gedab) that we spent a lot of time trying to develop into a credible news source, which requires us to speak to a very diverse Eritrean population. So think of this as my Eritrean cyber cafe report:)

      I understand the challenge. Eritrea is a small country where state media is tightly controlled and only what the Isaias regime wants heard is broadcast. In the Diaspora, although we in the opposition are gaining ground, the ones that have captured the big headlines (Isaias Afwerki in New York, the mekhete meetings, the festivals, the pro-regime websites) appear to reinforce the perception that the only Eritrean voice is belligerent and militant. But if you follow just this forum alone, which tries hard to be guided only by its posting guidelines and not some political strategy of reinforcing a uniform message, you would know that Eritreans have a diverse voice. Let’s look at how much movement there is towards Ethiopia by the different Eritrean schools of thought:

      1. Former ELF-fighters: Take the example of my friends Saleh Gadi Johar and Amanuel Hidrat. These are two individuals who joined the Eritrean Liberation Front (ELF), bled for her, saw their organization disintegrate (with help of the TPLF) but they had taken the position of “let’s move on.” They have been extraordinarily fair to Ethiopia and the Ethiopian government–they have a long paper trail and there is no reason for me to state the obvious. I would definitely consider that significant move towards Ethiopia. I do not think they are the exception–they believe Ghedli was of historic significance, it achieved its purpose (getting Eritreans to determine their own fate) and part of determining our fate includes establishing a strong and enduring relationship with Ethiopia.

      2. Former EPLF fighters: There are some EPLF veterans who are the equivalent of T.Kifle (nursing wounds and suspicious of the other), then there are some EPLF veterans, like Mahmoud Saleh, who have shared with your their view of wanting to close the chapter of history and move on. Mahmoud (who is trying to found a Peace Club along with Fanti Ghana) has been quite articulate on his vision. Don’t you think that is a movement towards Ethiopia?

      3. Sawa Generation: This is also a very diverse group although everyone likes to take a slice and consider them as having a “representative” view. There are, within that group, Eritrean youth who say that they have no argument with the PFDJ, they just want to better their life (ask Nitricc and Semere); there those who have joined the Eritrean opposition (ask EPDP); there are those who think that if PFDJ is the outcome of Ghedli then the whole Ghedli was a mistake (ask Eyob); and there are those who don’t care about Eritrea or Ethiopia or anything related to “politics” and just want to focus on themselves (ask, um, me:) Depending on which group they belong to, their view of Ethiopia (or even Eritrea) will vary.

      4. The Silent Majority: Here, too, there is a wide disparity of opinion between those who think that the biggest danger to their survival is the PFDJ and those who think the biggest danger to their survival is Ethiopia and the international community. Now, I want to focus on the latter because they are usually painted as irrational or duped by Isaias. Here’s why the Isaias message may resonate with them. If you are an Eritrean in his/her 60s, the following happened in your lifetime (explained cogently by Ambassador Andeberhan in his new book which I hope to review sometime this decade):

      1. After World War II, England recanted on its pledge to grant you independence;
      2. The UN violated its own charter on the right of people to self-determination and handed you to Ethiopia;
      3. Ethiopia violated the terms of the Federal Act and annexed you;
      4. The UN violated its own resolution and ignored all appeals by Eritreans to intervene on a Federal Act it had promised to “remain seized” with;
      5. The UN and the OAU refused to listen to your appeals for 30 years even when you were being cluster bombed;
      6. Ethiopia reneged on its agreement to abide by the terms of EEBC;
      7. The Witnesses and presumed guarantors refused to do anything about Ethiopia’s refusal to comply.

      So even when the Isaias regime does something that warrants international action (sanctions) it can easily persuade some Eritreans that it is just one in a long series of preferential treatment/neglect by the international community.

      So, when you have a T.Kifle coming here and presenting Ethiopia as a victim of Eritrea, and then speculating, strike that, affirming with absolute certitude why that is– it is not just a case of a dictatorship acting like all dictatorships: externalizing problems–that it is some psychological damage we sustained from Italian colonialism, then all he has accomplished is for those people who were taking baby steps to normalization with Ethiopia to come to a halt; and those that were taking giant strides to take a pause.

      saay

      • Fnote Selam

        Dear Saay,

        There are at least two Ethios in twitter who, I have noticed, openly and repeatedly accept and support Eritrea as a separate and independent country. Their twitter handlers are:-@AbeshaT and @101Ethiopia.

        Thank you,

        FS

        • saay7

          Selamat Fnote (love your name)

          Thanks for the tip. I am following both now:) One of them has the post-Weyane Ethiopian flag so we will see if he goes all T Kifle on me:)

          saay

      • Hayat Adem

        Selamat Sal (not skipping it this time:)

        It appears part of the page is missing in your list between 5/6:
        5a. The ruling party in Ethiopia supported Eritrea’s struggle for independence since day one, and after the war, and still there.

        5b. Ethiopia became the first country to officially recognize and accept Eritrea’s referendum results before anyone in the world.
        5c. Ethiopia and Eritrea were in good relations enviable in the neighborhood so much so that PFDJ head was out boasting about the irrelevance of the border, even the possibility of federation 2 or confederation
        5d. Eritrea back-stabbed Ethiopia (courtesy of EECC)
        Hayat

        • Elenta

          Selam Gual yay Adem,
          Definitely,you are here to make sure that there is no missing link in comments about Ethiopia.But as usual you go to your hibernating state when Eritreans were told their identity is fake and their history is distorted.

          • Hayat Adem

            Hi Elenta,
            I was not silent. I have thrown a desperate shot (on independence and identity) if you haven’t seen it. There is no much I could add on this. If you ask me though, identities have never been about or from outsiders, Relationships are (partly). If you think someone attacked your identity, you get outraged, the identity problem manifestation observable in the reaction than in the attack. If you tell an American that her identity is fake or damaged, i would guess the American’s response would be either like “who cares what you think about my identity” or may be ask questions as to why you thought so and or just walk away without firing back any word. If you ask that a black American, chances are she may be furious and agitated. While such attacks (if you want to call them one) are very inconsequential, people react to them differently. And I think the fragility or the perception of it is merely on the respondent, not on the attacker. I would never anyone has to do anything with my identity. Nobody can dint it. Theoretically, it is inaccessible to outsiders. Please read Serray’s sharply revealing comments on the subject.
            But on Sal’s list above, I was really keen on resupplying what Sal intentionally left out.in his picture. I’m really worried about Sal’s lost positive role and underspent intellectual capacity all for really petty reasons that I thought were behind him once and for all after he parted ways with DIA. T. Kifle is right, what does it take for a giant thinker such as Sal to openly admit that Eritrea opened the war and work on the reorientation of Eritrea’s bright direction from there. Because that is the truth. It helps Eritrea more than any other. .What could be lost has been lost already and there is nothing Eritrea can lose more on admitting that fact.
            Hayat

    • Saleh Johar

      Kaddis,
      Thank you for a very useful input. I wish some people would learn, can you transform your wisdom to some sort of Ebola and infect them 🙂

      You are right, not now, when I went to Addis after an absence of a few years caused by the Badme debacle, I couldn’t recognize the city. I was amazed by the growth and I wrote extensively about it. It has been almost three years since I last visited and I am sure I will be surprised by the changes, but this time I am prepared because I follow events closely.

      You must have observed a few Ethiopian already acting like the Gulf Arabs, wealthy idiots who belittle others. But we all know, there is a long way before the nation reaches the level of wealth of the oil nations–for God’s sake, our region is known exporting domestic helpers and refugees and we have a lot of people living in miserable life of destitution.

      But if we are blessed with peace and stability (and rehabilitating the xenophobes, arrogant and trouble makers) our region can develop significantly. Ethiopia is on the right path as far as development is concerned but for that to be sustainable, the entire region has to be at par. That is the challenge we face, not whether Eritreans are still “Italian Slaves” or suffer an identity crisis.

      You see Kaddis, such topics are constructive and do not drain our energies. But some people, in insulting Eritreans as people suffering from identity crisis, they expose their own identity crisis. If we can reign such spoilers, we can move on and do something tangible, something that helps our conscience rest.

      Thank you again

      • Kaddis

        Gash Saleh –

        Sorry for the late reply. The reason I concentrate on the urbanities and the ‘middle class’ is because thats were the Eritreans were/ was suppose to be if not for all the troubles/ and could be their entry point. Entry point as to influence the current situation. I dont mind for investment as well. Roumer has it some Eri business people moved to Addis from South sudan troubles ( along with a lot of Ethiopians ). I am aware Ethiopia has a long long …way to go to even to reach the one clearly projected by the gov. Unfortunately, government is influenced by the well to do part of the society. So focus on the segment of the society that matters to your cause. Don’t play down Ethiopian influence by listing her troubles.The rich always act the same everywhere and I don’t think the Ethios act any different.

    • Kaddis
      Forget Addis, I am more interested in Bahir-Dar and Hawassa. Although I will never forgive who ever designed that ugly stadium in Bahir-dar. They spent equal money to build state of art stadium and ended up with that ugly looking one. Well, they beat Mekelle though. The Mekelle city supposed build for the last ten years and all the money ended up in a pocket of T-K’s : – ).
      Actually my main reason to replay to you was about the Addis Traffic. I am amazed to no end. Traffic lights are overrated and useless if you ask me. As scary as it looks the movements of the cars, it is safe. My friend and I were determined to see an accident and we observed for eight days and to our disappointment; we only observed a toyota pick up truck hit a donkey and the toyota lost the signal lights and a little dent on the front body. And the donkey walked away. What we learn is the power of defense-driving. Every one is looking and assuming the other driver to make a mistake. The result is amazing. I think someone should do some study. For me, I found out to be very interesting.

      • AOsman

        Nitricc,

        Similar to your observation, I have noticed such driving in Egypt and the Middle East. The environment is so dangerous, the skill of a common driver is much higher than in the west (discounting the irritating bad habits). However, some junction would not function without traffic lights, I have see one CCTV clip on facebook, it just makes you cringe seeing the number of accidents…..youtube has some more. my gift is not the worst, but it enough to make appreciate traffic lights:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2JFL1Sk21Y

        Regards
        AOsman

        • saay7

          Selamat AOsman:

          It’s been a long time, welcome back. I was in Cairo a couple of years ago and I decided to test myself how long it would be to cross the street by observing traffic rules. I was stuck for 10 minutes then I went native and started jay-walking:) In Saudi Arabia, they all drive 150 miles per hour—while tailgating! It is nerve-racking if you come from the West.

          Nitricc, did you actually go with a friend to watch an accident and then got disappointed when you didn’t see people injured or dead? I think sometimes you say things just to shock people.

          Here’s a video someone put up of Mesqel Square in Addis–no traffic light, no problem:)

          saay

          http://youtu.be/UEIn8GJIg0E

          • Mahmud Saleh

            Saay
            This should be ground for the Mayor’s resignation. Honestly, I watched it many times.

          • Abinet

            How difficult is it to put a couple of traffic lights? Is it a rocket science . I lose pounds every time I go home. It is madness . Embracing ! What is easier? To build a light train or some traffic lights?
            Please , please , please don’t drive in addis.

          • Mahmud Saleh

            abinet;
            I stayed i addis in mid 90s, it was huge compared to Asmara, the traffic was scary; but when you compare it with Cairo, Addis traffic was less chaotic. I really admire the skill of the drivers. How about the ring road? Hasn’t it make difference?

          • Abinet

            Mahmoud
            Addis is much larger,more congested with cars,people,animals…….You went there in mid 90. If you go now you don’t know it . I’m not exagurating . I was born there ,grew up there ( just off of bole read behind bole mini). I start driving at early age by our standard. I was 16 when I started to drive. Let me tell you I will never drive in addis again. I don’t even sit in the front seat. I sit at the back and pray all the way. The city need to invest in traffic management .
            Mahmoud , the way addis is growing is scary to say the least. No wonder it is expected to be the the New York of Africa by 2020. The ring road is helping a lot . There are also many new roads built after your visit . But no replacement of a functioning traffic light.

          • Mahmud Saleh

            Abinet,
            I wish the best for Addis; we stayed with a Guraghe family, by Aroghew airport, next to Ali Marah family, a very nice Guraghe family. They assisted us a lot, and we lost touch after the war. My son was 2 years and would sneak early in the morning to “ababaye” the elder of the family. He would get his daily treat of candies. He also learned some Amharic. Hope to visit it one day

          • T. Kifle

            Hi Abinet,

            I thought you know Addis well. It seems you don’t. There was indeed a traffic light for ages at Meskel Square. It’s dismantled for sometime now because there is road development going on the area from 2 directions and the rail of the light train. That’s why you see people driving on gentlemen arbitrations 🙂

          • Abinet

            Selam Ato kifle
            I know there were traffic lights back then . I was born and grew up not far from there . I used that road everyday .there were 6 traffic lights .
            1 towards megenagna
            2towards 4 kilo
            3 to ghion hotel and piazza
            4 to legehar
            5 to meshualekia
            6 to bole

          • Kaddis

            Hi Abinet – its not the traffic lights – but its the drivers training and manner which is taking lives in Addis. The figures are so scary – up to 3-4 people die in one week-end in Addis alone. We drive in fear. Drivers are trained with the 90’s road network in mind. And people driving straight to Addis from regions got surprised with the paved road and ciaos – they got nervous and aggressive on the road. The media is also so ignorant – few visual demonstration and update about the new roads could help. We might need a special permit to drive in central Addis. A new toll road from Addis – Nazareth with 3 lanes each side started service yesterday. 50 birr for the 80 km and cheaper if you exit in Debreziet, Modjo…. I hope people drive with care.

          • Abinet

            Kaddis
            Be safe. It is a war zone. 3-4 death over a weekend in auto accident just in addis is beyond scary.
            Please try not to drive as much as possible.

          • SAAY I don’t just say things; rather I say things I know. I know you are trying to fish out things but you have to trust me. And no I wasn’t there physically.
            And no I am not disappointed at any thing but I am surprised at the driving skills of the Ethiopians. With that sentence you sounded like the Tigryans. Why do you go negative? So when I say we were disappointed I was just telling my my expectation what to see and what actually observed.
            All I am saying kudos to the Ethiopian drivers. Their driving skills can be applied to real life and as society we could have avoided a lot bull crap.

          • Eyob Medhane

            Sal,

            I hate this video,

            You know why? There’s actually a traffic light in Mesqel square. Granted, it’s not enough. But that video was taken from just one angle (I am assuming from Simens building) it made it look so bad. And worse the fast forwarded it… Distortion… Tsk tsk tsk..

          • saay7

            Eyob!

            I know! They used trick photography to make it look like there are cars and pedestrians on dangerous collision courses:)

            You know this and I don’t know why you are making me say it but high-speed photography (and its opposite long-exposure photography) is always used to capture traffic information.

            saay

          • Eyob Medhane

            Sal,

            Fine..you win.. 🙂 For your ‘dis’, you are not invited for the next public gathering at Mesqel Square… 🙂

          • saay7

            Eyobai!

            Ha! What dis? I am paying tribute to the Addis (and Cairo and Riyadh) drivers because I don’t have those navigation skills. So, please reconsider your invite to the gathering at Mesqel Square… I will show up in my Google Car.

            http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/28/google-self-driving-car-how-does-it-work

            saay

          • AOsman

            Ahlen wesahlen SAAY,

            Am still around, you get better perspective when you watch the ‘quda’ dancing from distance.

            Suprised to hear you have a Semaforo identity crisis as well, to a point that you wasted 10 mins of your life waiting. 10 minutes to wake up from your post-colonial and gedli mentality to adjust to reality, sounds like a mini-Dejen syndrome to me.

            Also am wondering, who gave you the permission to go Arab land anyway, while you refuse to visit Ethiopia our motherland. I am really shocked!!! Our problem is indeed very deep.

            Regards
            AOsman

          • saay7

            Haha AOsman!

            You piece is satire but like all good satire it is based on truth.

            I notice that T.Kifle has given us our “Progress Report” and my guess is that unless he grades on a curve we are all failing); I will read it and reply, if necessary:)

            saay

      • Kaddis

        Nitricc – the video which went viral at Meskel square ( the place looks completely different now btw) is fascinating even for the residents. The traffic is getting worse/ tough with some hope it will be better once the big projects get completed. Asmara road is completely closed. Imagine that. But again – Bole road was closed for a year and we survived that. So people are a little patient. Other capitals in the region are getting better as well. What fascinates me in fact when I meet someone from the region which see certain cities as their center or their city like I see mine. When they plan to invest or dream to move or build a house there ( Awasa, BD or Desse ) Not to Addis. That gives me huge hope. Cheers.

        • Kaddis
          I know it is going to take time. It is a huge project.
          last time I check around debredamo hotel, the workers hit rocks and digging was very difficult. The contractor for that section, Israel’s citizen he was looking for more heavy duty equipment and I don’t know is they are using new heavy duty equipment or the same Caterpillars. Anyway like you have said it is a mess down there.
          Question for you. I know you can not use phone while driving but is it illegal to drink and drive?

          • Kaddis

            Let me tell you a trendy joke. A diaspora was suddenly hit by a car from the back. When the driver left his car – he was drunk like a gelaous best man. The diaspora was confident to show the trafic police he was hit by a drunk. The police said to the diaspora – Esus sekro new ante eyayeh atenedam alew yibalal (the guy is apparently drunk why dont you drive carefully ). The city police just introduced alcohol test, with their new patrol car, during the night few weeks ago. Chewing chat in a day time is also illegal. The night time accidents are mostly due to drinking and hope the new initiative works.

  • was he there searching possibley hosting some potential conflict bearing tasks? poor guy, He lost his x- friend Mubarik. But he can hardly get helping hands from the new military leaders. They might know he’s trouble maker of the zone and they don’t longing for more problems now. Egypt have had enough by itself!

  • Ossares Haftom

    THE CRIMINAMAN MAN VI// TO CAIRO

  • Dis Donc

    I am a regular reader of awate commenting section (sorry I never read the articles), for many years now. Probably 8 or 9 years. In fact, awate is my only site I visit when I get nostalgic about Eri and Ethio, in every sense. It had great civility, well versed & rehearsed scholars (SAAY, SGJ, Mahmud, Aman, HTG, Serray , Rodab & even the mythical YG himself, which I never read from, to mention few), great Ethiopians (Eyob & Abinet), good meaning Tegaru (Kifle, Hayat (not sure)), and many others (sorry if I didn’t mention your name but you’re in my thoughts). That is up until 2/3 weeks ago. First, it was the women issue and now this. One has to scratch his head and say: Poor Eritrea and Eritreans!! Its is like this. When a grown person want something from a kid, the person keeps on following that kid and puts him in all sorts of (invisible) trouble. At every turn of events the kid is confronted with the grown up, with the grownup telling him that there is something wrong with him and why doesn’t sort himself out. After so many ordeals the kid must decide what to do; give up and submit himself or find out what the person wants from him and chart his way forward. One thing is for sure, though. The kid needs to mature himself up quickly for otherwise he will be living either in total submission or in an ordeal. The kid is Eritrea. As Solomon said it very clearly and he was blunt too; “Eritrea will be treated as an unequal.” Now that’s a poser, no? Total submission is a la-orden ou terrifiante réalité!!!

    I am bitterly disappointed with some Eritrean scholars in this forum (with few exceptions of the ones who tried their best to mediate and those who kept quite). Point is you cannot argue over identity and perception. And going back-&-for about it is even immature. When I read many of their back-&-for with the Ethiopians, I kept on wondering if I mistyped asmarino.com or tesfanews.com minus agame words (which I quit visiting, long long long time ago) instead of awate.com. Really, you don’t have to go back and for regarding your identity. These days identity is nothing without social, economical and political stability, which Eritrea has none of them, sadly; for otherwise they will keep on reminding you of your travailles. Relating your travailles with your identity is their view and you, as Eritrean scholars, should know better not to haggle and wrangle about it. Simply put, it is their view!

    The challenge now is how to salvage this great site. You (the scholars) have a lot of work ahead. I am one who hates to see Kifle, or others whom were thought offensive, go. Many have dropped out for one reason or another. True that some did show up for a stirrup and left the scene. Examples of the latter comes the feminist camp and the hardcore Ethio camp (again no naming names or alias.) Even worse, I hate to see awate.com go barren and disappear altogether, like the others before. I say this because I am a concerned reader and never a writer (take notice of this). If you have questions I will answer for this post only.

    Dis!

    • Amanuel Hidrat

      Dear Dis Donc,

      I can’t agree more. Your grievance and your point is well taken personally. Yes the question of identity was a resolved issue, it shouldn’t be a matter of debate. As you have pointed in your comment the “social, economic, and political stability” is paramount and quintessential to our nation and its people. I hope to switch gears and focus on solution-oriented debate. like what what you have said the answer to diversionist is “simply put, it is their views.” But in the mean time I will ask you to come frequent and engage, as every ones view is important in the crises of our politics.

      Hawka,
      Amanuel Hidrat

      • Dis Donc

        Dear Aman,
        My mom always prayed, hoped and wished that Eritrea will
        one day become a plural and civil society. Sadly, that never happened in
        her life time and I am afraid it may not be in my life time either. Plurality – a gov’t elected by the people with a platform that every citizen/group participates; expresses his/her views and these views are respected; be it right or wrong. In most cases, wrong ideas die out naturally as they don’t gather enough supporters. Economic Stability – businesses, schools, hospitals, localities, etc are free from gov’t involvement except in policy making regulations. Social stability – every individual has the right to educate and work for himself; religious communities are free from regulation; economic regulatory bodies are free from gov’t involvement. That is, in anutshell, what I hope for Eri to achieve.

        Finally, although, I am extremely honored, I am afraid I am of the opinion that a
        man should only be seen and not heard.

    • Tesfabirhan WR

      Dear Dis Donc,
      Thank you for wanting your home to be pure as it is and center of intellectualism. I fully support your concern but also we should not forget that awate.com should be brave enough to take corrective political stands against those who want to paint an imagined identity and label the Eritrean as “Bogus Identity” Many websites are simply nursing grounds for such but awate.com is making a brave and courageous step to take corrective measures to tell who we are. Eritrea upto yesterday is Eritrea today. We can not delete any single history we have and we can not paint what ever colored identity we have. Those who do so is like going enda hazen and trying a wedding ring from a mother who lost his first and only child.

      Though what I said above is my motto, the problems we have is much greater than the game of such kind of political opportunisits. Doing it in the right way is equally fruitful and I believe on this. On my side, I If I did something wrong, I will come corrected.
      hawka
      tes

    • saay7

      Selamat Dis:

      As part of the awate team, I really appreciate your kind words about the website and your long-time support.

      I think what’s happening is what has been narrated by William F. Buckley, an American scholar : the “pushing around” situation (modified for simplicity). A man pushes a child into a busy street. A woman pushes child away from a busy street. You can say that both the man and the woman “push people around.” But you wouldn’t be fair.

      Similarly, here, you have a situation where a series of Ethiopians (usually sensible Ethiopians) have told us that our identity is fake, that aggressive nationalism inflicts our mainstream elite, that Italian colonialism has inflicted irreparable damage to us. We have said that our identity is not fake, the aggressive nationalism affects a certain percentage of our population (as it does a certain percentage of every population), that one can’t show a cause-and-effect between behavior one finds objectionable and Italian colonialism/Ghedli, and that we don’t know what you are supposed to do if you conclude that your neighbor is suffering from psychological problem that is incurable (“irreparable damaged.”)

      What you have done is attribute equal blame on everyone. Actually, you singled out the “Eritrean scholars in this forum” for your bitter disappointment. This doesn’t compute. For once, I would like to see an Ethiopian tell a fellow Ethiopian, “with all due respect, you are wrong!” I feel like there is some Ethiopian omertà and awate.com should conduct an active campaign to recruit Ethiopians we never hear from…you know, the ones whose views are not represented in the man-on-the-street interviews of addis cafes. I am thinking of Oromos, Somalis….

      Your argument that identity is nothing “without social, economical and political stability” is debatable. Obviously I (and many) disagree: it is all we held to when we had less than what we have now.

      • Eyob Medhane

        Sal,

        First, I expected you to bring a virtual ‘brindo tre siga’ and two bottles of fine ‘tej’ for us for the new year.. 🙂

        Second, I did let go the identity conversation, because it is just ‘gunch Alfa’ (no end). However, you just misstated what I said. I said on the ‘irreparable damage’ bit, it is repairable with some condition, but the damage is already done. I never said the damage can never be repairable.

        Third, I don’t understand the incessant obsession of many Eritreans (I see a little bit of it in you too) to try to slice and dice Ethiopians by regions, ethnic groups kebeles and woredas….What made you think that an Oromo Ethiopian would have a fevorable opinion of what ever you think than Amhara Ethiopian or Tigray Ethiopian? Whatever disagreements Ethiopians may have between each other, usually, it’s just that. Between each other. Just to let you know many Ethiopians of Oromo or Somali, Nuer or Anuwak, think of Eritreans part of the Habesha elite. They don’t really recognize the difference and appreciate your ‘identity’ to equate it with their own question of identity. Therefore, your search of a clashing views of Ethiopians on Eritrea may not bear as a basket full of fruit as you expected, even if you bring all 80+ ethnic group of Ethiopians to comment on Awate……

        • saay7

          Eyobai:

          The shmagle BaAlat of Awate has a list of Eritrean and Ethiopian holidays that it celebrates and this one didn’t make it to the list. I will treat you with extra videos on music exchange day on Saturday 🙂

          On the second para, please refer to the answer I gave dis don.

          If you don’t mind, I will do my own fact-finding to determine if the people of Gambella sit around thinking Eritrean identity is fake and they are “irreparably damaged.”

          saay

          • Saleh Johar

            Saay, the rHus baAal image was there on the frontpage for two day! How did you miss it? It was just taken off a minute ago.

            In fact we used the image that was posted by Kaddis or Horizon, children with mesqel flowers.

          • saay7

            Abu Salah:

            Oops, my bad! It’s probably due to irreparable damage I carry with me from the occupation/colonialism of Turkey, Egypt, Italy, England, and Ethiopia. You know that gene is recessive but it just never goes away. Plus I have that Ghedli infection which is even more lethal. I hear the cure is the Tre sga of curated camel meat served bojboj style with Turkish coffee–it takes care of the damage. But only temporarily because, u know, it’s irreparable. You think we can get some celebrity to do some PETA-style fund-rising commercial with heartbreaking music playing in the background?

            Anta tedefirna’ko:)

            saay

          • Semere Andom

            Salamat Sal:
            Emanka(not Tigrayit) saleh 🙂
            http://awate.com/poets-corner/#comment-1577413486

      • Dis Donc

        Dear SAAY,
        Let me put it this way: I was walking by a road when I saw my teacher arguing with a homeless man. Then I remembered the saying that says; if you see two people arguing you couldn’t tell …. I am neither Eritrean nor Ethiopian anymore (although it is neither here not there) and hence I wish not to say much about the political situation of these respective countries. But I couldn’t help but wonder why one has to argue about ones identity and the reply has to be having political inklings. Point is, you’re Eritrean and you know your who you are but others may not know you or better yet, they chose to not know you. Why zeraf zeraf (to use SGJ’s words)?? Remember, wrong ideas and views die out eventually when they do not gather enough following. Read what Abinet wrote to Mahmud.

        • saay7

          Selamat Disc:

          First, thanks for gracing our multi-lingual pages with French. In solidarity, let me just use my high school French and say: “Mon rouge crayon est dans le maison.” Thank you.

          The identity issue would be entirely an academic excercise had it not been for one minor detail: our long nightmare is all about identity. Eritrea is part and parcel of Ethiopia vs Eritrea is it’s own nation. Badme is part and parcel of Ethiopia. No it’s part and parcel of Eritrea. Every blood we have shed has been about identity and the benefits (key bahrachn for example) associated with that.

          Now just when we thought we were all done with that, here come T.Kifle and Eyob (who, coincidentally are STRONG EPRDF supporters) telling us our identity is fake (Eyob), our nationalism aggressive at the elite level (T Kifle) or at the ordinary citizen level (Eyob), and that we have psychological damage that is irreparable (T Kifle) or reparable (Eyob.) the question is: does the Ethiopian government share these views? Do the Ethiopian people share these views? And what does that mean to our long term relationship based, if not on mutual trust, at least mutual respect?

          As heated as the exchanges were, I consider them to be a “teaching moment” for many.

          saay

          • SAAY the point everyone misses is this. The root of civility is respect! Regardless you agree or disagree but you got to show respect. Do you think TK or your friend will tell to a Sundaes that his nationality is fake? Do you think those two Ethiopians will tell to a Kenyan, he or she have fake nationality? I let you answer it for your self. And at the same time why do you think they have no shame or respect to an Eritrean to tell him/her have fake nationalities?
            Can you think why?
            Well I have.

          • Shum

            Hello saay7,

            This could be a “teaching moment” only if the person you’re addressing is learning or seeking to learn. No matter how often you can quote back T Kifle on his own words, he still carries on with his BS. Unless I missed it, I don’t remember him taking back anything he said about you and Saleh Johar.

            For Eyob, this is just passatempo for him to sh*t excessively on Eritrea or anything Eritreans value in our history. In between these activities, he finds a lot of time to share some really good tidbits and info about Ethiopia, music and the likes (thanks for that). Call it the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde syndrome since we’ve all graduated with Psychology diplomas online.

            As for the Ethiopian people sharing these views, no one here can give you that answer in terms of hard figures. I suspect it varies based on many factors, ethnicity is just one.

            The main issue here is that people in this forum have many forms of research at their disposal. There are sociological and psychological studies on authoritarian and totalitarian societies. And there are books written on colonial and post-colonial states. None of these are cited. Look at T. Kifle’s reply to you. You go to great lengths to try to understand and articulate your points and challenge him. His reply: “You pushed it too far, I guess. I am just making comments, not writing researched articles”. We unfortunately come from a region where you just shoot from the hip and go with your gut feeling at all cost. T. Kifle thinks it’s ok to spew nonsense because it’s wrapped in polite language.

            For what it’s worth, I, and many others appreciate your postings and your backbone because there are too many mealy-mouthed, milquetoast Eritreans on this forum who would rather draw graphs with imaginary lines than stand up for Eritrea.

          • saay7

            Selamat Shum:

            I should actually have said a “teachable moment” and not a “teaching moment.” The idea with teachable moments is based on the principle that of all the factors that help us learn about a topic (its importance, the learning tools we use, the methodology), none is more important than the time. So, in this particular case, a topic that many find too abstract or not fit for polite company to take the trouble to learn may have become teachable because of the moment: the controversy created by T.Kifle. So, the student is not T.Kifle but the thousands of silent awatistas (and their friends with whom they discuss what we discuss here.)

            For me, really, there was an objective (surprise!) You see, T.Kifle is as close as we can get to a TPLF spokesperson participating here at awate. (I once asked him to make a list of the mistakes TPLF has made since 1975. All the ones he listed had one thing in common: we trusted the EPLF too much.) He is a highly disciplined TPLF member and what shocked me is not what he believes, but that he said is so brazenly and in the typical paternalistic way the TPLF is famous for. Just imagine: a party that comes from a homogenous state (95% Tewahdo Christian, 95% Tigrinya) has been, since its formation, giving us advice on how to manage pluralistic society so none of what he said surprised me: I just want the naive among us to hear it first hand. (Thanks for the tag team, Mahmuday.)

            My friend Eyob is harmless. He is the self-designated Patron Saint of the Kebesa Eritreans (Qudus Eyob) and a reliable apologist for EPRDF. He will tire of both (the Kebesa Eritreans because they don’t like to be called fake; the EPRDF because they are politicians and will eventually arrest and torture someone close to him) and then he will focus on his true strength: a first-class historian of Ethiopia.

            No comment on ali matsmash with the crayon:)

            saay

          • T. Kifle

            Selamat Sal,

            Well, We have our own way of telling things and that’s it. You know very well that Tigray didn’t have even state-level opposition for most of those 23 years and the central parties have little ground in the states and much less in Tigray. You also very well know that democracy is not about the end results but about the process. Any one can form a party, oppose the government in Tigray, stand for elections and enter parliament if they won majority votes. So far no one did make it but it doesn’t mean the status quo would remain the same for ever. Now we have an opposition and let us wait how they would fare in the coming election and beyond. You seem to me one of those “converts” who look down the little toddling Africans are making in their exercise of constitutional democracy. The reason I appreciate the current status of my country is not that because it has become democratic but because it’s in the process of building the necessary ground for becoming one in the future. That’s what you often miss when you characterizing Ethiopian politics. You remember what did you wrote in one of your comments in this website when PMHD succeeded the late MZ? You had little trust on the transition that he would govern Ethiopia given the “treacherous culture” we had in the past. You specifically expressed it closer to: the rivals would make every effort to get him replaced with all your imaginable sabotages that included plane crash. Now we have crossed the 2 years line and PMHD is still on the driver’s seat.

            Now, how far are you moved away from the man in this link?
            http://www.dehai.org/conflict/home.htm?commentaries.htm

          • saay7

            Selamat T. Kifle:

            Ah, so you are still around. And still in your little time machine visiting your favorite grudge nursery home:) Do come out and answer the questions that you have left hanging. Because, it turns out, you bluffed (in Sept 2014) and you are trying to change the subject by exiling yourself (to 1999.) The questions still hanging (plus some new observations):

            1. You accused me and SGJ of harboring the view that Eritrean life is more precious than any other life. Do you have evidence for that or will you escape into, “oh well, that’s just my opinion”?

            2. You said that the “mainstream elite” harbors “aggressive nationalism” and is “irreparably damaged” by Italian colonialism. This led me to ask you: the whole Africa was colonized, why is Eritrean case different? You said it is because we didn’t have a chance to have a post colonial state. Who was responsible for our denial? Is there any writing anywhere in the Eritrean Ghedli where the leaders “romanticize” colonial Italy? Since you are stuck being our neighbor, how do you expect to deal with our irreparable damage?

            3. Yes, democracy is a process, but since 1991 TPLF has entire monopoly of the state of Tigray. In fact, the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia (FDRE) is, 23 years after the overthrow of the Derg, is by all accounts, a Federation of One Party States. All one has to do is take a look at the 2010 elections and, by all accounts, 2015 will be a repeat of that. Politically (not economically), it is only in comparison to the suffocating police state that Isaias Regime has created out of Eritrea that Ethiopia looks “good.”

            saay

          • T. Kifle

            Selamat Sal,

            1. I thought it’s better not flare up the confrontations further and chosen to pass the subject. And Now I am commenting on a different subject that you always conveniently try to distort.
            2. Why I visit that house of shame is because I suspect you have not moved far from then.

            3. We are where we are and no democracy on earth precedes economic development.

          • saay7

            Selamat T. Kifle:

            Nice try.

            1. You are not silent because you don’t want to “flare up the confrontation” but because you have no evidence for your accusation and you have a long history of never owning your mistakes and apologizing for them, much less exploring an alternate path. You consider your job here not to exchange ideas but to lecture and teach.

            2. Hmmm. I think what will happen is that a T.Kifle Jr from Weyane III will extract everything that has been exchanged on this thread and will conveniently leave out what T.Kifle said and say, “well, look at what that saay and Shum wrote! How rude!”

            3. You are where you are BY CHOICE. You chose a system that allows each component part of the EPRDF (TPLF, OPDO, ANDM, SEPDF) to have a one party-state in the state it owns. None of my business except that this is the formula you want to push for Eritrea. You started out with RSADO and DMLEK and, 15 years later, you are stuck with RSADO and DMLEK. There is no chance that you will see this as a mistake because…refer back to my answer to # 1.

            saay

          • T. Kifle

            Selamat Sal,

            1. I have already provided you the link and you must have read it.
            2. You may kindly remind me when I do that and whenever I feel it’s my fault I will. But my mentioning of your two names is accurate. And still I stand by my statement.
            3. I have no idea about your DEMELK/RSADO and can’t say anything related to them. But I am sure of one thing that I said it before too: I don’t accept any push that replicates the order of governance in Ethiopia in any other other country including Eritrea. If the government is right now doing what PFDJ has been doing in a bigger scale, that could be interpreted as Serray has beautifully explained.
            As to our choices, yes we are here by our own choice and we believe we have made the right ones.I am saying no poor country I know of gets democratised before it gets into shape on the economic front. So our aspiration for legitimized and consensus driven democracy is well placed.

          • saay7

            Selamat T. Kifle:

            1. The link you provided shows that we believe that Eritrean life is precious. It doesn’t show that we believe it is more precious than any other life. You know this because if it did exist you would have quoted. You are just betting that most people won’t follow the link.
            2. To stand behind a statement when you have been corrected is not being principled; it is being stubborn and it defeats the whole purpose of having discussions.
            3. T. Kifle, I am on record as saying Ethiopia’s current governance is better that whatever preceded it, ever. So you don’t have to be defensive. Many within the TPLF take the position that they care more for Eritrea than Eritreans themselves and if you combine that mindset with the belief that the elite that can governed is deformed and permanently damaged that it is not a big leap to persuade yourself that your national security requires you to oversee the regime change project.

            saay

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam T. Kifle,
            .
            Oops! I almost missed this one, I presume it was the 2nd round.
            .
            Very good T. Kifle! In fact it is very very good, so much so I consider it a technical knockout. It was not as spectacular as the previous round but just the same it was great.
            When the 3rd round comes around, I want to sell tickets. Everyone wants to see how records are straightened out in plain view and shared with the public. It is important in its own right.
            There is nothing more gratifying than to see a straightened out record held high to the cheers of the crowd, Period.
            .
            Both of you have done your jobs as a true professionals. Now, can both of you without looking back to the past year or even last week project to the next year, and beyond.
            .
            What each of you THINK/HOPE is the best way, least costly approach to the immediate future of our countries relationships? What do you expect/wish from each other to ease the risks and pain of both countries for the long haul.?
            You two can amend the questions or frame the situation if you like. The only point I insist upon is the time. Today and tomorrows only. If yesterday has to be mentioned in passing it needs to be accompanied by deep apologies.
            .
            This is a tall order. It maybe even impossible to address. Maybe we are doomed and we don’t know it yet. Some of us are looking for answers without our glasses. However, that is also why you get paid the top dollars to tackle these kinds of challenges.
            Respectfully submitted,
            .
            K.H

          • T. Kifle

            Hi Kim Hanna,

            I am not interested in the past except in its application/implication in solving the current impasse. So rest assured, I am not driven by grudges or emotions. But I am a firm believer that we cannot and should not approach the problems in a kind of ሾላ በድፍን. We need to tell thing the way they are. That’s all.

          • Eyob Medhane

            Sal,

            Sorry to jump in. As I said before, I am done with the ‘identity’ back and forth. (I didn’t say much about it other than the couple of bits to begin with) But I have an issue with your # 3. That is a pure misrepresentation, and if I may say so pure PFDJ style. EPRDF has four member parties, and they govern their respective constituancies. But 90million Ethiopians are not represented by only those four parties. Ethiopian Somali region is not governed by EPRDF. Gambela is not governed by EPRDF. Afar is not governed by EPRDF. Harar is not governed by EPRDF. Benshangul is not governed by EPRDF. The governing parties in these places may be largely ideologically allied with EPRDF. But believe me. They have their own differences also. Hence, that would make your very superficial ‘one party state’, a fallacy. I admit, it could be better, and I believe, as T. Kifle said, because democracy is a process it will keep getting refined and better. However, factually speaking, calling Ethiopia a ‘one party state’ is a bit deceitful… Carry on. Don’t let me interrupt you….

          • saay7

            Eyobai:

            Don’t you have some “terrorist” Ethiopian journalist who was arrested that you have to celebrate? 🙂

            Ethiopian 2010 election results: (neither revolutionary nor democratic ylal ferenju:)

            “…90 percent of parliamentary seats have gone to the EPRDF, 9.6 percent of seats to the EPRDF’s affiliates, one seat to an independent candidate who is the recently deposed head of the Ethiopian Football Federation, and one seat – or 0.2 percent of the House of Representatives – to the opposition party.”

            I will see you at Camera 2 on Saturday for Music Exchange Day. I think I am going to upload Eyasu Berhe’s soundtrack to Ethiopian movie “Mussie” (Harbeyna Weyanai I.)

            saay

          • Abinet

            Eyobe
            Hold it right there on #3.Saay has a solid point.
            Are you telling me EPRDF did not create all those parties in its own image? Didn’t we call them “teleTafi ditijitoch?” Don’t all of them speak eprdf language? This is not a sign of democratic process . It is rather very far from it. Tell me how many opposition seats are there in the parliament ? Opposition in idea not in name. EFRDF killed the process long time ago. Actually, I don’t like to right eprdf and democracy in the same sentence. We rather talk about the economy where I mostly agree with EFRDF .
            Thanks

          • Eyob Medhane

            Abi,

            I get your point. The parties are ideologically allied. I used to think like you that these parties were ‘teletafiwoch’. However, I got to learn that many of them actually have a semblance of independence. Some of them actually, parties like SPDP (Somali Region) and the one that is governing Afar region were in opposition against EPRDF. Again, I do admit the flaws, but I prefer the painstakingly slow process than a chaotic ‘democracy’……

          • Abinet

            Eyobe
            Let’s wait and see the results of the upcoming election. I like to see a better “process” this time . Don’t forget the saying
            “KemeTegen alemesber yiqelal “

          • Mahmud Saleh

            T.Kifle;

            – ” Speaking of “trusting EPLF”, it’s not that we missed its nature but we thought it was aware of its limits.”

            – “Indeed EPLF epitomised the old Tigriyna adage ኣገለኛ ኣንጭዋስ ኣፍንጫ ድሙ ትልሕስ.”

            laughable.

          • T. Kifle

            Yeah, You can laugh to the last teeth. Truth sinks down slowly. Nothing strange about it.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dear Mahmud,

            I have an idea if one of our writers could come with civic education for peoples of both sides of the river that could help to ebb down the current debate of “nationalism” particularly “territorial nationalism” and “civic nationalism.” Just to give you a typical examples (a) the war for independence is an example of “territorial nationalism” where the whole effort of the struggle was to liberate the nation from occupiers (b) The current Eritrean struggle is something of non-xenophobic form of nationalism that focus on the value of freedom, tolerance, equality, and individual rights – which I could characterize it as civic nationalism. if we could elaborate those concepts, our friends from the other side could learn that we are debating on the true meaning of nationalism, and somehow identify the conflict of the current struggle is on transforming the territorial nationalism in to civic nationalism then at least our debate could be framed nicely. The two nationalism differs on the value they promote and when we are debating we are just mixing it with no boundary in our discussion. How do you see it?

            Amanuel Hidrat

          • Mahmud Saleh

            AmanH (my second attempt, first one, gone; disqus amelegna!)
            I wish you get ears. The problem is Aman no that we have deficit of literature and experience, but that the other side is not here for exchanges of views; rather, they come up to shove down our throat all the insecurities they feel. It’s a well known defense mechanism: projection. Another, point is this small elite clique desires to gain fame and acceptance by the general Ethiopian public at the expense of Eritrea; after all their relation with us was tactical, according to them. Of course, I am talking about a small elite circle which doesn’t represent the peace loving people of Tigray. I don’t see any benefit from you or any other person wasting time on clarifying Eritrean identity issues. Much has already been said on that regard, and I don’t think Eritreans worry about that. Anyone has the right to describe us the way they see it fit, their description doesn’t make a dent on our identity, it just remains to be that of their own, as long as we are at peace with who we are. We wish them peaceful coexistence with their identity.

          • Serray

            Selam shum,

            I didn’t draw imaginary lines but your statement applies to me, I guess.

            Personally. I am indifferent about the identity discussion but I see it is as a blueprint of our future relationship with ethiopians if the ghedli romantics continue to rule eritrea. Every time Sal and T. kifle go at it, it makes me wonder how much of it will survive post isaias eritrea. I don’t know about the ethiopian side but on the eritreans side, this need to be respected by ethiopians is pervasive. The ghedli romantics, be it the pfdj, neopfdj, semipfdj or nonpfdj types, seem to downplay the damage badme did to the relationship with the woyanes. As long as the woyanes are in power, and as long as there are eritreans who doubt that shaebia started badme, woyanes will downplay eritrea, ghedli and the eritrean identity out of spite. TPLF II will not only be mainstream but it will be the governing principle. TPLF accepted eritrea independence (and whatever its identity is based on) when it matters most; when it was a tricky time for them to do so. Their new position on eritrea is strictly driven by badme.

            For some of us who don’t walk on eggshells pretending that eritrean identity can snap into two every time some ethiopian lashed out on the internet, watching this back and forth is fascinating. If God forbid pfdj II succeeds isaias’s pfdj I, the frosty relationship with ethiopia will continue unhindered. Since the woyanes are hugely offended by the pfdj, it is very unlikely they will make amends with with anyone who resembles them. What is on awate pages today may become part of diplomatic discourse tomorrow.

            Here is the kicker for me, the romantics need to resolve the identity question by arguing with the ethiopians is funny…”we bring guns to create the identity but we will make you accept our identity by the power of our reasoning”. Why bother? From the deepest depth of my heart, I truly don’t give damn what an ethiopian thinks about my identity. Ethiopians are the last people in the universe I care about what the value or worth of my identity is. Not even 0.000000000000001 about eritrea is negotiated; making the eritrean identity negotiable now is nothing more than trying to look heroic in a vacuum. You don’t try to convince a store owner after you paid; it is yours, just walk out with it.

            Shum, nine out of ten times yg is mentioned, he is mentioned first by ghedli romantics of the pfdj or nonpfdj types. Just like their pfdj counter-parts, the nonpfdj romantics are desperate to look heroic rescuing eritrea from the enemies imagined. This need to look protecters of eritrea is pervasive among romantics; if they are not protecting it against yg, they are protecting it against woyanes; if they are not protecting it against the NGO’s, they are protecting it against the US; they are always protecting it against something when in fact it only needs protecting against the super-protective pfdj. Soon or later, we have to realize that there is nothing wrong with eritrea that can be fixed by fixing the point of view of ethiopians; everything that is wrong with eritrea MUST be fixed by fixing eritrea.

          • Semere Andom

            Hi Serray:
            As if YG’s ideas are a threat to the nationhood and identity many stripes of the romantics gang on him. Eritreans invented Eritrea and they own it until future generations decide otherwise. Identity is not something that is immutable. Visible and invisible factors influence it and it is constantly changing. Ghedli played its role in creating some perceptions about what to be an Eritrean. Take the Eastern Sudan, in 1986 when EPLF kept assassinating people, the Sudanese had it enough and they destroyed the offices of the Eritrean organizations, and we found files with names of martyered fighter flying around the ELF-RC office and the slogan was “la Tesfay wo la Indrisai” . the next week there was huge public demonstration of people riding horses (Not to Rahwa), and camels and their comeback slogan was,”al beled beledena wo al hakim woleldna”, the land is ours and the governor is is our son”. the point is most of this people identified themselves as both Eritreans and Sudanese . The identity issue is irrelevant to the nationhood the Eritrean have created and the problem that bedeviled us from the beginning is not an identity crisis it is tolerance and affectionately nurturing the despot and that is an identity in itself that sadly many Eritreans are proud of and I believe that is what the Ethiopians are mocking us about, the rest is just dessert to sweeten the bad after taste

            *la Tesfay wo la Indrisai”: This means neitherTesfay nor idrisai, subtle message is all Eritreans Moslems or Christians are not welcome her

          • Serray

            Selamat Semere,

            You are absolutely right. It is bad enough we have saddled our youth with a nation that enslaves them, we don’t have to leave them with lingering conflict shaebia started single-handedly.

            If someone says “we eritreans” more than a couple of times an hour or denigrates ethiopia (or the world) in that span of time, he has to be a mindless pfdj. These people suffer from a sickening love for the land and hatred of everything else. We have to stop imitating them in their inferiority ridden, conflict driven defense of national identity. The most compelling argument for eritrea thus far is still “many sacrificed” for it. What kind of an identity can you built on ONLY that. Plus, for many of us the eritrean identity is one of; we are habesha with an ancient culture and history or deki metahit with equally long and rich history. In diaspora, most of us are citizens of the nations who gave us refuge and a shot of decent life during our times of need. Eritrean is simply our national identity; the dysfunctional one at that. It is a national identity premised on maximum hurt, maximum sacrifice.

            Ethiopia used to define hunger and famine not long ago; specially when we were part of them. Now it has been years since the monotonous request for food aid dominate the news. National identity is just that. If the nation gives a bad vibe, you can’t make people respect your identity even if you have a zillion years of history by the power of your reasoning. Bite your time, fight for change and when the nation defeats the animals destroying it and replace them with people of vision, the nation and the national identity it bestowed will be automatically mended and respected. My advise to Sal is, fight the cause, not the symptom…T. kifle and TPLF II are symptoms of shaebia leaders appetite for blood, power and corruption.

          • saay7

            Serray The Sublime:

            So you think T.Kifle and TPLF II are the way he is because of PFDJ? And who says we have to fight only one challenge at a time? As the late Harbeyna Weyanai PMMZ once said, “We will fight while we negotiate; we will negotiate while we fight!”

            But, seriously speaking, if you look at the Eritrean organizations that TPLF I considered strategic partners– (a) De.Me.Ha.E, (b) Se.De. Ge. E– and what TPLF II now considers strategic partners–(c) RSADO and (d) DMLEK– can you tell me what they have in common? It just so happens (from my perspective) that what TPLF considers strategic partners are hugely destabilizing for small Eritrea. And that is not something that you defer until victory over Isaias regime is achieved but something you challenged before, during and after.

            saay

          • Serray

            Selamat Sal,

            Actions haves consequences. If Sadam hadn’t invaded kuwait, he would still be ruling Iraq. I take the EECC as the final and total authority; any future eritrean leader who glosses over who started the war is incapable of mending the relationship. The war was bad enough but I think what offended them more is the name calling, the agame this, agame that crap. Behind T. kifle’s colonial mentality accusation is this name calling that originated with the italians.

            When badme started, instead of questioning the war as we should given our size, our long and bitter history of war and the certainty with which we celebrated independence just a few years back, our automatic and hateful response to it made them look at us as confused people with huge and unfounded superiority complex and they went to work on that immediately by first looting and deporting anyone they suspected harbors that kind of mentality in their country. Then they went to work to deconstruct shaebia, and eritrea with it, piece by piece. Trust me on this Sal, they will not stop until an eritrean leader comes who accepts badme without any ifs or buts…anything else is negotiable, RSADO/DMLEK, but not that.

            Why is that that important to them? Because, there is a HUGE difference between woyanes invaded us and we invaded them. Shaebia regime and its mouthpieces want us to accept a lie that everything was going well until woyanes invaded us. When the truth is, shaebia regime wanted to bring to an end the peace we had the audacity to enjoy for a few years using them as an excuse. Their refusal to accept the role the stupid regime wants them to play is simple: they want us to accept, in no uncertain terms, that shaebia brought eritrea to complete darkness all by itself. If every eritrean has to live in refugee camps or drown in the seas before we accept that, then be it.

            Sal, as someone who engages them the most, you don’t seem to appreciate how determined they are that we either own badme or nothing, no movement, on anything. If I am wrong and you do, then I am shocked that you stick to a position that wouldn’t move the needle a bit.

          • Solomon T.

            Serray,
            You have stated the bottom-line of how Ethiopia’s current policy makers think of the Eritrea file in the most succinct way. Every statement in what you have written is true and that is what every Eritrean who is serious about changing the current situation should understand and start working on. It is like you are reading the minds of the people who matter in Ethiopia today and I must admit that you have an incredible ability in understanding others.
            Solomon

          • haileTG

            Selamat Saay and Serray,

            As I mentioned many times, my take on Ethio-Eritrea is limited at this time because, personally, I believe that the time is not ripe for a meaningful cyber-dialog to be had. It is simply hard to find an angle that is not concocted to serve as a Trojan to adance ulterior views. I was left scratching my head when Shum (usually balanced) suddenly applied the “identity” discussions between saay and T Kifle as an identifier for “defending Eritrea”. Never mind that some may justifiably consider “defending Eritrea” has nothing to do with the ongoing discussion nor the spirit in which it is taking place, yet it goes to show you the “loose” and “callous” tendencies that may manifest as an unpredictable spin off from the spontaneous discourses.

            saay:

            I believe that deterrence and diplomacy mixed in healthy proportions are what maintain respectful relationship between nation states. Strategically speaking, Eritrea’s problems are internal. Our internal malaise has rendered us with an ineffective tactical positioning in both of the above pillars. The emphasis shouldn’t really be about what the TPLF is willing to support but what Eritreans are capable to defend. The regime has effectively incapacitated our ability to be normal citizens and discharge normal duties of citizens in defense and nation building. An Eritrea that is cordoned off from its citizens for all practical purposes can’t point fingers on external threats (real or imagined). IA is by far a proven lethal threat to Eritreans and Eritrean than any small overseas based ethnic organization (representing no more than 2% of the population) can ever be. Hence, we may be better served by going for the bulls eye with full focus.

            Serray:

            I don’t seem to get your insistence of trying to apply legal findings in one hand and reject its applicability and mandate on the other. I am not privy to the war council t the start of the conflict but darn sure that the ERITREAN PEOPLE did not start a war. Gialog and understanding is good but when PFDJ is gone the circumstances of the start of the war and the terms of the jurisdictional findings are still going to be there for posterity and the truth would emerge. Facts as we know them:

            1 – The Algiers agreement mandated for setting up three independent commissions

            – The commission to assess damages
            – The commission to demarcate the border
            – The commission to investigate the start of the war (proposed to be set up by the AU)

            2 – It so turned out that the third commission that was supposed to investigate the start of the war was never set up. And no reason was given why. Hence, the start of the war was NEVER INVESTIGATED.

            3 – The commission for assessing damages, and for that specific purpose, has assessed damages based on events that transpired on the ground on May 6, 1998. In so doing it acknowledged its limited considerations (Only from May 6) and strictly prohibits the use of the finding for purposes outside of its immediate objectives of calculating damages. In other words, No investigation was carried out on the start of the war and you are expressly warned not to mis-use the findings of the awards commission.

            If as serray states, IA ignited a war, Eritreans are duty bound to defend the country from the imminent danger. If the third commission had been established and was to apportion blame to both or one side, we would have known better and still wouldn’t be wrong to defend once country from perceived danger too. In any case, if you are trying to assert that IA has indeed started the war, there is no doubt that many circumstantial evidences are available to conclude that. If one argues Ethiopia provoked the war (or at least exacerbated it as found by the same commission) again there are many circumstantial evidences to conclude that too (e.g. the hoax bombing of adi grat that was used to launch the Tsorona battle in the central front). Our job should never be to exact a pound of flesh for the sake of deeply held sentiments but to open doors for understanding, bridging the gap and promoting peaceful coexistence. Digging up a 16 year old wound and jumping conclusions and demanding humiliation is not the way to go about it.

            I have personally rested this issue for I have learned the hard way that the atmosphere is too troubled and poisoned to engage the matter in good faith. And, I am not calling for a renewed show down, but you are still in default of adding facts to your case as it stood more than a couple of years ago 😉

            Cheers

          • saay7

            Welcome back Hailat:

            Next time you go on vacation, leave your emergency phone number where you can be reached if there is “Khtet”:)

            I agree with everything you said on the Isaias regime and your assessment of the limited mission of EECC.

            Ethiopian policy can be helpful, neutral, or hurtful to the case of the Eritrean opposition. My conclusion is that it is hurtful and this is not based on my personal feelings about Harbeyna Weyanai II, but a study of everything I hear and read from any Eritrean opposition group that has ever had any interaction with them since 2000. Now, I can believe one of two things: every Eritrean opposition group (with the exception of RSADO and DMLEK) is lying; or they are telling the truth. I believe the latter.

            saay

          • haileTG

            Selamat saay

            ….haha becareful, you might be accused of igniting Badme II 🙂

            Here are the two statements from Serray that are evidently self contradicting his central theme that Ghedli is to blame;

            1 – “…Then they went to work to deconstruct shaebia, and eritrea with it, piece by piece. Trust me on this Sal, they will not stop until an eritrean leader comes who accepts badme without any ifs or buts…”

            2 – “…they want us to accept, in no uncertain terms, that shaebia brought eritrea to complete darkness all by itself. If every eritrean has to live in refugee camps or drown in the seas before we accept that, then be it.”

            If one was to accept Serry’s argument, which I don’t, then Ethiopia is responsible for the current suffering of Eritreans and presumably it would not stop until we either accept their version of the genesis of the Ethio-Eritrea conflict or the last of our people are drowned at sea or become destitute refugees!!

            The problem in Serray’s argument, taken as a whole (including Ghedli), is the fact that he starts with a theory and attempts to mold reality to fit in that theory. Because this error occurs at the very earliest stage of his conjunctures, all we see is his argument cought up in a looping crash that appears to have a life of its own. For example, this is why Serray takes every incident to validate his view of ghedli and every event in ghedli is used project the same theory over and over again.

            On the above two points, Serray inadvertently supports the regime’s stand by tying up the current crisis to the work of “deconstructing Eritrea piece by piece” by Ethiopia and the manifest tragedies to be the natural outcome of such a policy by Ethiopia. Suppose the IA regime had been smart enough to open political spaces after the war, to avoid killing off the private sector by banning all business activities, to lift off the de facto cordoning off of the country for free movement of Eritreans, have slightly thicker skin to allow opposing voices be heard in the country through private media, engage rule of law in external dealings, avoid disappearing people into dungeons and many other blunders of mismanagement and trampling of rule of law… Would Eritreans be in the same position today? Would the “demands made by Ethiopia” as Serray holds it in his mind been as menacing as he makes them out to be? In molding the current reality to fit his theory, Serray has chipped away these important considerations and offered a causative relationship that can’t be realistically validated.

            In the end, my insistence on giving rapprochement and healing a chance with our fraternal people in Ethiopia, it is not because of what the regime supporters think it to be, selling us short or what Serray holds, to escape current calamities, not at all. It is a long term and viable proposal. The fact is that Ethiopia can project enough power to bring IA down but would never ever be in a position to carry the extremely hefty price in lives and material to even hold Eritrea for a single week let alone any prolonged time. Ethiopian leaders know this and that is why they talk with certainty in war not being an option. Only a deluded hegdefite would think Eritrea can be occupied without papa IA. The reality is however, Ethiopia is gaining a decidedly upper hand in economic and political clout that unless we can offer something to interest them on the table, they would have room to drag their legs. The urgency to bring change is greater in Eritrea and part of the change would involve our external dealings. Serray is proposing the white flag, the regime is proposing the red flag and justice seekers should propose the olive flag.

            I understand what you are saying about the role of Ethiopia vis-a-vis opposition groups. However, I reserve judgement at this time because the internal and external dynamics of those opposition groups are also part of the outcome you are describing. Unless we can have (which is unlikely) unbiased assessment of all pertinent factors, I see little to go about with in apportioning blame. Let us keep the HUGE impact of the historical animosity due to the decades of war among our peoples. Hence, clarity and factual validation is the only way forward in exchanging views with our Ethiopian brothers at this sensitive stage of our history.

            Regards

          • Haile, what up?

            i have a little observation and i would like you to clarifying for me. you said,

            “Our job should never be to exact a pound of flesh for the sake of deeply held sentiments but to open doors for understanding, bridging the gap and promoting peaceful coexistence. Digging up a 16 year old wound and jumping conclusions and demanding humiliation is not the way to go about it.”

            yet, when T-K went all out and listed everything that what was said in the heat of moment ( SAAY translated in to English) and as a sign of agreement, support and solidarity; you UP-voted T-K for his take in digging past issue. and now you are saying with what i have qouted you. how do you recoincle the two side of you.
            if you wonder why i follow you closly is that i do believe one day you will represent Eritrean in some higher capacity and you are not going to be there with out a challenge and scrutiny. we are going to learn from our past mistakes. no more free passes. now, would you please clarify your opposing positions i have pointed out.
            as always with respect.

          • saay7

            Selamat Serray:

            I was going to deal with para 1 on your continued insistence that EECC has investigated the origins of the war (a claim that you doggedly hold on to) but I noticed that Haile TG has comprehensively addressed it. There are two unpersuasive arguments you continuously make and hold on to as an article of faith–that EECC determined who “started the war” and Isaias ignited the war to avoid implementation of the constitution–that no counter-argument will persuade you otherwise. From these two articles of faith, you go on to another conclusion with an ever further leap: that avoiding to accept these facts is some version of Ghedli romanticism (everything is in your book:) when there could be, for example, a much simpler cause for my skepticism: that the TPLF leadership is just as untrustworthy as the Isaias leadership.

            Para 2: there is this urban legend that the PFDJ whipped us into a war frenzy when, in fact, the PFDJ was dead silent in the weeks following the Badme War ignition. A lot of us were reacting to the extreme rhetoric of the Ethiopian government. Those who now blame the PFDJ for being “duped” really are shifting the responsibility. I told you my stand then and as now, in terms of ethics hierarchy is:

            (a) you were opposed to the war, and you spoke out.
            (b) you viewed the war as a defensive war, and you spoke out.
            (c) you viewed the war as a defensive war, and you were silent.
            (d) you were opposed to the war, and you were silent.

            Para 3/4: If what you are saying is accurate, they you are making the PFDJ’s point: that the TPLF is a petty organization driven by spite. I like to think that they are rational people who look out for their country’s interest. And somebody who is that spiteful doesn’t just say, “oh, ok, now I am satisfied” when you given in; he asks for more.

            saay

          • Shum

            Hello Serray,

            Apologies for not responding sooner as I’ve been “away”. That last line was not in reference to you. It was a reference, honestly, to Hayat Adem; hence the reference to the graph with imaginary lines. I agree with you that I could care less what Ethiopians think about me and my identity which is why I don’t go posting on Ethiopian forums and mixing it up in there (which I’ve refrenced to you in a separate postng). And I am well aware we are an independent country with a distinct national identity that is not in jeopardy. People don’t just change who they are due to current situations and the like. And this has nothing to do with Yosief Ghebrehiwet. He’s not relevant to this discussion.

            That’s not what my posting was about. My posting was simply about civility and respect on this forum and was targeted towards specific people, not Ethiopians, in general. As I’ve said before, Ethiopians have a diverse set of views on Ertirea/Eritreans. For me, this forum is really informative and I hope Eritreans, of all political stripes can take away something meaningful from it. I’m happy to have different viewpoints of anyone here, regardless of where they are from as well. But everyone should respect that this is first and foremost, an Eritrean forum. Insulting our people side tracks us from talking about more important things.

            You mentioned that Eritreans should be proud of their Habesha and Metahit identities, but we can’t even enjoy that because we have people saying most Kebessa have a fake and lost identity and they are fake patriots and that lowlanders resorted to their gun-toting moods. Recall in our last engagement where I talk about the importance of image and how we in the opposition have to make sure we don’t let up on exposing PFDJ but that we keep the image of our country in mind as we dot it. American politicians and political news often cite the phrase “Don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater”. I am ever mindful of that.

            Now, I’ll grant you this, I could have just ignored these postings and moved on to others. In fact, I don’t fault anyone who didn’t react to this and remaining silent on these posting doesn’t make you milquetoast or mealy mouthed. But, I felt strongly about it especially since it keeps popping up. At least i want individuals who make these statements to know, hey, don’t be fooled into thinking just because we debate all things about Eritrea, that it is ok to belittle us.

      • Abinet

        Selam Saay
        So you think there are no Oromo and Somali or other ethnic groups in addis? We are talking about Finfine here. There are more Oromos in addis and the surrounding area than other ethnic groups. In short my report includes every ethnic group.
        Just because IA supports OLF, it doesn’t mean Oromos have a favorable attitude towards Eritrea . They, like any other group ,are no more interested in Eritrea and it’s affairs including its identity.
        Thanks

        • saay7

          Abinet:

          I heard your eyewitness report and that of Eyob: to a certain generation of Ethiopians, Eritrea is just another country like Kenya, Sudan etc.

          I am not talking about that. I am talking about ur, Eyob and Tkifle generation. I take it u don’t sit around psycoanalyzing the colonial legacy of Sudan and Ethiopia do you?:) are you telling me that a Somali Ethiopian, a Gambella and every Ethiopian ethnic group from your generation shares yours, Eyob and T Kifles view? Not the urbanized (Addis) folk but people where they live? And do u have any data beyond the addis coffe shop survey?

          saay

          • Abinet

            Saay
            Addis represents almost all ethnic groups .Besides I don’t have any interest in analyzing eritrean identity. I have my opinion which doesn’t matter at all . I don’t know why you don’t understand me. Ethiopians in addis or anywhere in the country ,old or new generation , have more important things to worry about than to analyze eritrean identity. Why should they? The old ones are forgetting Eritrea ,the new ones don’t even know it. I think it is good. Although it took us long time to accept,and get used to it,Eritrea is gone not to come back. I have to admit I was one of the millions devastated by it. The good thing,time heals.
            Thanks

          • T. Kifle

            Dear Abinet,
            Happy New Year,
            The reason I said what I said in the past few days is not because I nurse any “old nostalgia” about Eritrea. I have none. I wan’t even anywhere near by the “devastating” zone you admitted to have been passed through. To the dismay of many Ethiopians like you then, I was happy about it believing that much of the challenges that faced Ethiopia would be solved the time when an end is put on the Eritrean issue. I appreciate my position then which still is unshaken however rough the going might become. The discussion on nationalism and identity could seem pedantic thing of the past but I believe it is not. Still there are no explanations for the devastating war of the recent past. There are no explanations for the reasons behind many educated Eritreans censuring the mismanagement of that war instead of the very legitimacy of it. So I am saying the war was not created out of vacuum. It had fertile grounds which encouraged miscalculations and driven by bogus pride and sense of invincibility almost akin to the proverbial frog. No matter how people want this matter be non-discussable, it’s a writing on the wall: they will not escape it if they want to do any normalization with Ethiopia. You can see how they want to trivialize the r/s between our two countries. The often wondered why we are so intrusive in the Eritrean matters while we lack the disposition in doing the same with Sudan or Kenya. I remind them that Sudan or Ethiopia have not waged wars on us. Sudan and Kenya don’t strategise their policies to embezzle Ethiopia. We have the same controversial pending border issue with Sudan but didn’t converted to a conflict. We are negotiating in good faith to demarcate the border with understanding and give and take. We both understand we have more stakes in our common future than delineating imaginary lines that divide us. So the identity of these countries have not been a threat to our national security and interests, therefore, there is no point to waste time in discussing issues that are none. So the new generation “doesn’t even know it” would be plausible if you mean from the old “angetachin teqoretech” point of view, but if you mean totally ignoring the belligerent posture of Eritrea displayed far beyond its means would be neglected by the “new”, I am afraid it’s accurate.

          • Abinet

            Selam Ato Tekle
            Happy New Year
            How about if we forget the whole thing because it takes us nowhere except going around a circle like a tgrigna dance.
            My hope is people will come back to their senses,use their brain more than their muscles .As I said before,what you have said is shared by the majority of Ethiopians except you said it wisely. I don’t want to mention what a person from a cafe in addis would say regarding eritrean identity in this family friendly site. One thing very sad is the respect we had for Eritreans is damaged beyond repair. It is sad to see an Eritrean and a Somalian at the same level. I hope they earn their respect back but it will not be as easy as it used to be .
            One other thing I noticed in addis ,Eritreans are much more humble than before.
            Let’s hope things will get better through time since we can not stay away from each other.
            Thanks

          • Eyob Medhane

            Abi,

            In my FB page, I have some Eritrean friends, largely young victims of Isayas and PFDJ and by extension, let’s face it victims of Ghedli. You should have seen what they think about their identity and what they think of what the future holds for Eritrea. Let’s just say that it’s way way way far of what Sal and Gash Saleh think and argue for. I wish Sal and Gash Saleh would realize that the future of Eritrea will be at the hands of these young people not in the Ghedli outdated ideology and distorted history……..

          • Saleh Johar

            Okay Eyob,
            And how do I think and argue? You have to list them, at least if you wish to have a meaningful debate. This irresponsible throwing of statements is evil and deceitful. Are you telling me young Eritreans have more in common with you than me? Are you serious? Are you really serious? Now the Habesha non-Habesha obsession is over used you are into age classification? I tell you what, any country has its confused, complexity ridden citizens, guess who the perfect sample of Ethiopians and Eritreans would be!

          • Eyob Medhane

            Gash Saleh,

            Now, on this identity conversation, though I generally agree with T. Kifle, it doesn’t interest me to delve into it too much, because I just believe 1) Strongly held beliefs 99.9% can not be swayed through debates and dialogues 2) It may not be my suit to insist who should believe what identity to profess other than just stating my opinion about it. And that is what I did. I stated MY OPINION, and largely stayed away from it. Though, even though, I don’t believe I am wrong, if you say that I am, I just would say ok, and move on.

            As far as young Eritreans are concerned, I am going to have to ask Sal to pull one of a conversation he and I had I believe, it was in December, 2013 on YG’s article that was posted on Awate. (My quote may not be word for word, but it has what Sal said to me, in a nut shell) He said…”…There will be no way in a post Isayas Eritrea, we will let anyone other than Ghedli generation to lead Eritrea…” He said that, because, just like you, he believes that this generation is a “confused” generation, because many happen to believe in what you don’t believe. It was appalling to me that Sal, discounts a very large number of Eritreans not fit to be leaders of their country, until they believe in his version of history, and you are calling a very big chunk of Eritreans, who may not believe in what you believe just a “confused and complexity ridden citizens”. That actually is heart breaking, and if may respectfully say, a bit dictatorial…..I don’t have much to say about it, because after all, they are your own citizens, and if you think they will allow you, you can discount them all you want. I just wanted to say to express my disappointment….

            P.S In fact, I just found the conversation between Sal and I….

            Why I am disappointed is that you almost repeated it in a different manner, by dismissing a good portion of people, who were supposed to be the future of the country, as ‘confused and complexity ridden citizens’…

            Here is the EXACT words of Sal,

            “…read my lips. After mad king Isaias, is gone, whoever inherits power in Eritrea will be from the Ghedli generation because NOBODY is going to trust the identity-confused people you admire…”

            http://awate.com/eritrea-the-federal-arrangement-farce/

          • Saleh Johar

            ُEyob,
            I try very hard not to discount you as man who gets satisfaction from insulting people. I try harder not to think of you are a fool.

            You state that 99.9% hold strong belief, yet you imply younger Eritreans do not care much about their identity. That is what appears as a confusion in your mind.

            This is not a confession booth, it is a debating forum. You can’t just say “just stating my opinion” and believe you are not hurting people by your irresponsible and belligerent statement.

            A Tigrinya saying goes something like this: put anything you like in your mouth, but don’t say anything you like with it. This is a lesson on courtesy and abstention from saying stuff that is purposely uttered to aggravate others.

            You have said, I will say my OPINION and move on several time. Yet, you come back and throw irresponsible, inconsiderate and disrespectful utterance and, again, “I will just say my OPINION and move on” No confession booth. You can’t insult people and say I am stating my opinion. You have to discern your opinion, if it is rude, don’t say it. You are not here on an insulting quota that you have to deliver on a timetable.

            I do not like ganging up against anything. When I write something, don’t bring anyone into the argument. Deal Saay on his own, don’t mix stuff out of context and wish to make a killing in this field where you feel like a knight.

            Miquoting and misrepresenting is not a nice trait in such a forum. I never said a blanket “complexity ridden and confused” youth. It is you twisting my words. But for the record, “whoever agrees with you on your warped and hate filled view about Eritrea, young or old, must be as confused and hateful as you.” You hate Eritrea with passion Eyob. Now I can say that. Yoru Addis circle is certainly a few “complexity ridden” leftover from the Haile Sellasie era. I don’t think any of the Ethiopians here belong to that tiny, diehard, MoAa Anbessa group, except one that I suspect. Ethiopia is not beyong the moon, I know how people live and think. I know the places you are mentioning probably when you were a kid in school. The type you mentioned are a minority of the minority of the minority. All Ethiopians cannot be hater like you. Probably I know as much Ethiopian as you know, remember, Ethiopia is on this earth, not on a different planet.

            If your only purpose for coming here is to insult Eritreans and stir disharmony and chaos, please save us that. This is not a playground for those who like to play with fire at the expense of the people. Out mission of reconciliation goes beyond Eritrea, it includes the entire region. And we invest heavily in it. If you feel you cannot contribute anything, but just undermine our mission, then your transgressing on our mission.

            I hope that you fine tune your discourse and stop insulting us.

            Apologies, I run out of niceties and smileys.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Abu Saleh,

            The core message of your comment is: “You are not here on an insulting quota that you have to deliver on a timetable.” A strong message. I will see how awitistas will absorb it.

          • Eyob Medhane

            Gash Saleh,

            Fine. I am just offering this to you, as ‘Metareqia’… 🙂

            http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28059303

          • Abinet

            They are running far and fast to avoid the consequences of gedli. When it comes to identity just remember the first ever speech IA gave in addis . He has always been a source of shame to his people. I don’t know if you can find it . If you forgot about it I will give you a hint
            For your cultural exchange on Saturday ,I suggest you post Tagel Seifu’s poem regarding abebayehosh. I am sure kokob selam (yeselam kokeb) will enjoy it.

          • Rodab

            Eyoba,
            The youth generation (generally under 35 years old), is actually a ‘hardcore’ Eritreans that was either wasn’t born or was too unconscious to understand history and politics when independence came. Then, as in any society, they grew up learning their history from their surrounding (parents, schools, media…).

            Today, the youth are under unfriendly system (not Ghedli, btw. For them Eritrea was already ‘made’ when they were born or growing up, so they don’t really understand this whole ‘ghedli’ politics of the cyber. All they know is there is Eritrea and then there is a government, whichever type, period!). Your YGist assertion that because of being victimized, they somehow have a different sense of identity is misplaced. It is not identity that they are not sure of, or have problem with, it is the system of governance. In the real world, I have never met an Eritrean (or Ethiopian) who is confused about his/her identity. I don’t even know what that means is in the real sense. The identity problem is all abstract that exists in the cyber world, as far as I can tell.

          • Anonymous

            eyoba- do you really participate in ethiopian facebook world(the ethiopian awate forum).i have searched you many times but you are not there.The most important facebook participants in ethiopia are not more than 250. even t.kifle isnot within 250 circle let alone you(his contribution is to limited to awate forum only-are you the same as t.kifle) . or are you using nick name..the most likely differntials for you are —regan solomon,yona bir…etc. i follow almost all of them but i cannot find you even in comment section and also no one is perfectly matched with you.currently…alex abreham started —zemecha 100,ooo-(he currently reached 25,000 foollowers) do you realy know this zemecha.. i think if you are really in facebook you should know what is this zemecha..hoping that you are follower of him(1 of the 25,

            000 followers)

          • Eyob Medhane

            Abi,

            No. I do not know Zemecha and I am not that much of a big participant in the ‘Face Book’ world. I just have many young Eritrean friends (refugees), who I have met through my work. And lastly, you have not found me on FB, because you are right. Eyob Medhane is my nick name…. 🙂

        • Dis Donc

          Dear Abinet,
          SAAY mentioned some tinkering issues about your country or gov’t and you just sprang up to defend your country and may be even your gov’t (please do not be offended as you may or may not gov’t supporter.) I am not opposing it as I am only pointing it out to you that respect is both ways. The moment one says something bad about one’s identity (be it colonial, ghedli, or anything for that matter) one springs up to defend its ID. You see, if you show up to Eri sites and do not give them respect (whether their ID is phoney or not) then they will question your presence; something to do with an ulterior motive. Remember, I am only using you a an example and, in fact, it goes for all Ethios.
          As for fear of Eritrean invasion or economic dis/advantage, in these modern days there are international economic/business rules that govern country trades and economic arbitrations. The problem with both countries (as I see it) is that their economies are not modern enough yet. Ethiopia seems to be following the Chinese model and Eritrea, well I don’t even know if it has an economy any more. In both countries, the economy is the gov’t which is run by few people. Because countries are not memeber of the world economic body yet, economic decisions are made by these few people; good or bad. Solution is for both countries to establish and stabilize their economies before threatening or fearing each other. I know this is a liberal economic theory which both haven’t achieved yet.

          Dis!

  • Rahwa T

    Hi Filomon,
    What is your reason? Can you give the advantages and/or disadvantages of any of the calendar and timing system?

    • Filimon Asmelash

      No advantage or disadvantage. I prefer the western way myself. I was just informing the guy that in Eritrea we no longer use the Ethiopian way of counting time or use their calendar.

      • Rahwa T

        I respect your view. Thanks.

  • Mahmud Saleh

    Hope,
    That’s a good point. Arab league is known for its ineffectiveness, treachery and dysfunctional relations. Somalia, Palestine, Iraq/Kuwait, again Iraq issues, Libya, Syria… the list goes on and on. Eritrea of course is disadvantaged because of its international stand, its rough relation with the league, and the fact that Djibouti is a member of the league. The flip-side of this picture is Eritrea’s total silence on the matter. Wasn’t that a news worthy, at least, saying it was investigating the matter? or I missed it?

    • Hope

      Agreed big Bro!
      Aren’t U the ONE who clarified the MAJOR but simple MISTAKES by the same GoE that messed up things including the Djibouti Saga despite the same GoE has learned the painful lesson from the “Border” War with Ethiopia and knowing fully that it was the same Ethiopia who put PIA in the same trap,as the late PMMZ ,RIP, said it.
      Having agreed with U, my point in this particular case of ” Condemnation” by the same toothless and dysfunctional and Mercenary League is but lame/ hankas and coward one and there is no reason to blame the EDF for doing what if did to the uninvited Intruder.
      For the sake of fairness,the League should have called for an investigation of the incident

  • Awate Forum TIP

    When you a comment on the “Latest Comments” column on the frontpage, many click on the body and they have to scroll all the way through the article, and once they reach the comments, they have to search for the specific comment. Cumbersome! Our technical consultant observed this and made a few changes to help you go straight to the comment you wish to read:

    At the bottom of the latest comments summary is a time stamp in red text. Click the time stamp and that takes you straight to the specific comment. Please note: this might take a few seconds longer until Disqus loads fully.

    • Amanuel Hidrat

      Dear Moderator,

      Thank you, actually if you clink on the time ( which say 5 min, 1 hr, 2 hr…etc) it takes you direct to the comment you wanted to comment (you wait few sec). Additional feature or Technic, well appreciated.

      Amanuel Hidrat

  • tarikh

    Dictators especially Isaias should be condemned and isolated but I doubt if the far worst despots in the Arab League are morally or politically qualified to condemn DIA. Far worst Eritrea is not and will not be an Arab Country. Those who aspire and work to bring us closer to the Arabs, their efforts will be fruit less and their yearning a pipe dream.

    • zeki

      I don’t think that Arabs also will be pleasant with having you and your alikes among themselves. Even though they were not mean in supporting the Eritrean struggle and giving shelters to Eritreans for more than half of a century. It is a matter of choice either to establish a relationship with Arabs or non-Arabs. Look at Eritrea today and at Eritrea Yesterday. Before and after Gadafi. Beal jahra drarom Aserte mogogo geziOm xomom hadirom!!!

  • Serray

    The picture you guys have on your T-shirts is forty years old, this is how he looks today…old and tired. The picture I like most is the onetaken in a funeral of one of his minsters who died of overeating/overdrinking…grief striken with his shirt hanging looking spent…beautiful.

  • Boku

    The men of Awate.com always wagging the tools of other men to make them feel strong. Somethings never change.Why side against a nation that one believes is theirs on every turn.

  • Tettol

    The pic says all, look a head but can not see clearly. a good shot anyway.

  • sara

    why is the pic blared, is this tech problem when you lifted it from other sources or it is made to be that way-i think the person in the dark room is good in copying bad pic’s.

    • HayaT1

      Although his diabolic deeds are much worse than his observable physical appearance, the picture is kind enough to show the exact look of the evil. When Eritreans are allowed to speak out and provide inscrutable evidences of the egregious crimes the tyrant has been unleashing three decades, rational people will concur he was indeed the real devil.

    • Hope

      Common Sara haftina.
      U R in the Opposition Website after all.
      But Let us be real here and think twice about the scary home situation including the frightening Youth drain and silent social ” genocide ” -in its relative sense.
      Forget about the pic and it’s Engineers and doctors.
      Let us debate and dissect deeply about the root causes of these dangerous situation we R in and find solutions before it is too late,which is too late already.

      • Hope

        Read common as ” come on”

      • sara

        come on… brother hope
        you said youth drain… scary home situation…frightening and genocide etc..
        brother.. Eritrea has gone through this in the past, i am sure you heard the stories of the youth of the 70 and 80th who left home … or let us call it, they RUNAWAY instead of serving their cause.. and still Eritrea prevailed.as for the genocide..fear..that is very contradictory with the nic name you gave to your self… genocide is only for those who have lost hope of everything to do with eritrea.

        • Hope

          Thanks Sara.
          I will remain the same Hope and hopeful.
          Will never question our struggle and its Success against all ODDS.
          The trillion worth question is :
          Why and as to how Eritreans have to go through this unheard of misery when they have had enough of it for 60yrs?
          I am fully aware of the external interference but I am not fully aware of the internal factors that have contributed to the ” Run Away”, to use your word to calm you down.But I am fully aware of simple mistakes by our own, which contributed to over all devastation we and our Eritrea have gone and going thru?
          Are you denying the last fact I mentioned?
          Don’t U believe, my own Sara,that we could have prevented or minimized all these misery and chaos as a Nation and a People?
          I have done my best to balance issue but decided towards erring to blame ourselves based on facts at hand.
          What do U expect from an enemy other than evil wish and misery.?
          It is past due to wake up and push hard my own sara.
          As to the Social Genocide, even though I put it in quotation marks to avoid misunderstanding,please define it in no ambiguous terms what we R going through.
          I will ,if needed, present facts on that based on my own experience.

          • sara

            dear brother..
            yes eritrea has plenty of problems and no sane eritrean will deny it , and eritreans should work hard to resolve this by being united and of course with HOPE.

  • Kaddis

    I think the time Eritrea trying to play a spoiler has passed. Arab league’s interest is converging with the West – by extension with Ethiopia – that is fighting terrorism ( ISIS ). Arabs are having their biggest troubles since the discovery of oil 🙂

    Happy New Year – BTW – I happen to love the way our Calendar works and counting the time the Ethiopian way. I always debate with my western friends – our way makes sense. I argue – How come you start a day in the middle of the night? Its not even a day. Rather – push it 6 hours and start the day when the sun comes out. Some get it – some give me that weird look. Even the term mid- night makes sense the Ethiopian way. I wanted to know – how does Eritreans in Eritrea count time? I know the Calendar is changed – but how about the way they count time?

    • Rodab

      Kaddis,
      Your second paragraph makes good sense to me. I also add that even the calendar makes more sense because each month is evenly divided into 30 days.

      Btw, Eritreans in rural Kebessa do not understand much about the Gregorian calendar. They depend on Geez calendar. On the flip side, Eritreans in Lowland do not understand much about Geez calendar and they use Gregorian calendar. Even some of the months are pronounced like English (september, october..). Sem will correct me if I am wrong.

      Question: are there ethnic groups in Ethiopia whose calendar is different?

      Happy Geez New Year!

      • Saleh Johar

        Rodab and Kaddis,
        An information that might help:

        The Beduins, particularly in Saudi Arabia, use the same time as in Ethiopia. When they mention the time, they specify Arabi or Afrenji? Meaning, Arabi starts at sunrise with 1, am just like in Ethiopia.

      • Kaddis

        Rodab – I know most of the Southern region tribes like, Gedeo, Sidama, .. celebrate around Mesqel – that is end of September. The dates differ but around the same time. Oromo’s erecha is early October (?)
        Ashenda – being celebrated in the north is getting popular; Yarada lijoch joke its going to be a public holiday soon because you know why 🙂 I am not sure its related to Calendar.

        Best wishes

    • dawit

      A day is 24 hours and not 12 hours. If you live in northern or southern hemispheres closer to the poles, dividing the 24 into 12 hours day (light) and 12 hour night (darkness) will not dive neatly in to two equals of day and night. Therefore it does not matter where you begin and end as people agree what they mean 12 AM mid night or 6:Midnight.. Why is the Abyssinian colander, 8 years behind the Gregorian colander?.

      • Kaddis

        Ethiopians can also count in 24 hours – our 00 is six hours later than the west. No idea why we are 8 years ‘younger’ – rumour has it we heard the birth of Jesus 8 years later 🙂

    • Amde

      Hi Kaddis

      I love our calendar. It is true to our geography and climate. A new year starts when the rain season ends and flowers are blooming all over the land signifying new life. We grew up with Mesqel being a Christian holiday but I believe the fact that it is celebrated by so many different cultures to this day indicates it was a universal pre-christian and pre-judaic spring festival all over the Ethiopian highlands. I say pre Judaic because the modern Jewish new years holiday of Rosh Hashanah also falls within this same period. My suspicion is that they picked this period from the Egyptians who would have also picked it because it signifies the high point of the life giving flooding of the nile and the start of its reduction. So even if it didnt rain, it was the Ethiopian rain cycle that also defined the Egyptian calendar.

      I believe dawit has explained the logic of the start and ending of the day based on the latitude. Although we can argue the semantics of whether a day is 24 or 12 hours. I have yet to have an appointment set at 3:00 am “in the day” ;-).

      The 8 years difference is based on different calculations of when Jesus was born.

      May flowers bloom this New Year to you all.

      Amde

      • Rahwa

        Dears all Ethiopian and Awatistas,

        This piece of information on the Ethiopian and European calender has lots of interesting meaning than the previous tit-for-tat exchanges between T.K, both Saleh, Mohamed, and others. T.K, I don’t mean that what you said has not truth in it. It is ended true. But it has shaken the relative stability we enjoyed here in Awate Forum. The “calm” guy, Mahmud Saleh, has even returned back rare emotional comments and sometimes seemingly responding without attempting the core messages of responses from commenters who supported your argument. Hope the topic would be changed soon and Kaddis’s new year and African dating and Amde’s has given a different test. Thank you and I wish you all a very warm and successful New Ethiopian Year for the Ethiopians and Habesha New Year for all Eritreans.

        • Hope

          Ok Rahwa.
          One final word from Eritreans:
          -Our identity has never been broken and will never be broken
          -We fought for our cause to the maximum,with maximum sacrifice,against all ODDS under the Sun and we SUCCEEDED in liberating Eritrea and Etitrans but also Ethiopia and Ethiopians by decimating and Turing into ashes the most brutal and the most powerful military power in Blacl Africa.

          -Make no mistake then,by default or by common sense and based on the livng history ,Eritrea and Eritreans will prevail and outshine soon by turning into ashes every any enemy of Eritrea and Eritreans – be it an insider dictator or enemy or an outsider enemy

    • when Isayas wakes then starts eritrean time counting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when he sleeps time is zero.

  • ppp

    are you anti eritrea