Inform, Inspire, Embolden. Reconcile!

The Eritrean Lowland League: An Introduction

Background : I am not someone who is ruled by some “dictatorial chauvinistic regime” running my mind. I am of the belief, however, that women have ways of getting things into your head if you are a man simply because only the survivalist concerns that they raise (when they are serious and acting feminist) are true and cannot be ignored because there can only be one truth. It could also be in the way women tend to frame their arguments and not necessarily in the truth contained in the arguments. I will give an example: a few months ago, a good friend of mine and me had a little discussion with a female family member around a simple question that she framed. Why is it that, when almost every Tigrigna may go to visit his/her family in Eritrea at will (unless they choose to make a political statement by not doing so), nearly all lowlanders (including PFDJ supporters) get into a phobia every time they think of doing what most Tigrigna take for granted? The truth that my friend and I could not skip was that there was something wrong in what lowlanders are doing.

A few days later, another good friend introduced me to the Eritrean Lowland League (ELL) and some very encouraging lowland activism. I became convinced that this time, the ELL is the way to go and hopefully for good. I did make a few first-impression comments about the ELL’s Wathiqa in a previous article, which were not very favorable. Later, upon recommendation from the influential friend, I tried to read as much as possible on whatever has been written on the ELL and discussed the subject with some enthusiasts. I have still not formally joined the ELL but have come to view myself as an unregistered member. I love the grouping (my kind of people) and I am impressed by their ability to expand the organization so fact. I do not speak for the organization in any formal or informal way and nothing that I write or say should be taken as representing the organization or its membership in any way. This article (and others) is intended to contribute towards the call by the ELL’s leadership for discussions and competitive process of redefining the text and context of its future. This is not a Born-Again kind of U-Turn so hold your horses for now.

This introduction is a summary of what I managed to understand about how the drafters of the initiating declaration – commonly referred to as “the Wathiqa” (the document) – viewed the rationale for the initiative to establish the Lowlanders League as a separate civil society organization within the organized political opposition in the diaspora. The summary as I have presented is by no means neutral as I might have cherry-picked the ones relevant for useful discussion.

THE BOUNDARIES

The declaration starts by establishing Eritrea as a nation of diversity hence the license for each demographic component to express “its future ambitions within the frame of the existing reality of the Eritrean diversity”. This “existing reality” of course includes lowlanders as an integrated unit “characterized by close blood ties and social kinship relations, and that shares deep inherent economic modes of production”. This integrated unit is presented as having faced similar “challenges and upholding similar aspirations” of relations within the (internal) unique geopolitical space as well as with cross-border extensions in Sudan and Eritrean components in the highlands.

In a clear warning not to stretch the claim of ethno-religious homogeneity more than it is needed for establishing the minimum denominator for political alliance, it is noted that this unique region is itself a diversity of other unique components. One extreme example of this diversity is “Kunama”, which is described as “an original part and clear manifestation of the colorful diversity” of the lowlands. As this was just an example, the reader (of the Wathiqa) is encouraged to pick other examples, such as the Afar with fishing nets, the Blin and Mensa’e with big Crosses, the Tigrigna speaking Jeberti, the Saho on hilltops, the Hidareb with sharp blades, the smuggler Rashaida, or the Hawsa with ties to Boko-Haram. The bottom line here is that if you are able to give an example of anything then by definition you must have a prototype – in this case the prototype of the standard lowlander – in mind.

THE RATIONALE

The introduction does make a very strong argument that the rationale for establishing the ELL is not on the claim of internal homogeneity of the region as the lowlands is presented just as diverse and the whole of Eritrea, but on the ability of its component parts to abide by the rules of peaceful mutual respect and coexistence for generations. It essentially defines the concept of unity in diversity as difference of characteristics and unity of character of component parts of society. The Wathiqa defines diversity as “a model of peaceful coexistence across time” maintained through the conscious effort of the components to remain true to the character of “mutual respect and recognition, [and] shared interests devoid of the usurpation of the rights of others”. The problematic of the underlying prototype lowlander dictating the structure of the politics of power and wealth in the initiative is to some extent controlled by the condition that the model of unity in diversity be defined as “the complete absence of any [relations of] domination or exclusion” attributable to pre-determined sociopolitical structures.

Two examples of the claim of cultural decency and political pragmatism in the initiative are worth mentioning. The first is the case of the Afar in Dankalia, who are defined as an integral part of the lowlands as defined in the document, but excluded from the call to join the ELL as an organization. The document does not present what I thought was a convincing argument as to why they should be excluded. However, friends more familiar with the ELL argue that the Afar already have a well developed and widely respected political organization with uniquely defined political vision and would be disrespectful to intervene with disruptive processes that would fall on deaf ears anyway. The second example is the exclusion of highland Muslims (the Jeberti and Saho) from the call to join the ELL. Regrettable as this might sound, I believe (from following the debate) it is well justified by the pragmatism of the need to define territorial limits for any demographically structured political claims.

STRENGTH & WEAKNESS

The Wathiqa presents two examples of success stories to establish the feasibility of the capacity of the lowlands (thus defined) to reproduce yet another success story. The first example was that of “the Rabita … [as] testimony to the fact that this society not only fights injustice in all forms but can ultimately win despite all odds. The second example was that of the ELF … [which] not only paved the way for Eritrea’s independence, but … [led] to the downfall of both Haile Selassie and Mengistu regimes. In both examples, of course, the weakness in the claim is obvious as neither the Rabita nor the ELF can really be defined as local lowland movements: not in the scope of their visions and definitely not in the composition of their ranks. What would the RabiTa look like without giants such as Kebire? This flaw leaks further into the document leading its authors into dividing the Eritrean armed struggle into two phases. In the first phase, lowlanders are the only characters in the show until the end of the 1960s. In the second phase, lowlanders hand over everything to Tigrigna highlanders and disappear from the scene camping in refugee settlements in Sudan.

The document mentions two sources of potential drawbacks that might act against the success of the proposed project. The first source is behavioral, “attributed to the prevailing pastoral mode of living”, which amplifies the impact of the natural tendency of individuals “towards individual freedom and independence rather than to conform to strict centralized and collective mode of relationships and control.” According to the document, consequences of this structural flaw have proven disastrous to the RabiTa and other liberation era organizations by fueling fragmentation. The proposed solution: “society needs to look into these weaknesses and address them effectively instead of trying to avoid them.” A few blessings in disguise (in the document) justify the optimism of the ELL to be able to build something out of the mess. The “armed struggle … helped the people to conform”; “stability created in countries of refuge, [and] access to education”; and little things here and there to induce “adaptation to the necessity of hierarchal organization.” The elitist premise of the argument of behavioral drawbacks in the document essentially frames the problem as that of nomads who would not rally around their leader and not as that of a bankrupt leader who is unable to come up with appealing ideas worth following. Were the RabiTa and ELF success stories because they attracted a special set of conformist nomads or because they, in addition to a well framed cause, had charismatic leaders to begin with?

The second source of weaknesses is operational, primarily caused by “the lack of cohesion and unity of its political and civic forces, which “exposed its land … to great perils and its history to … distortion. The proposed solution: lowlanders are called upon to rescue it from its current state of dormancy … to reclaim its usurped rights. The document recognizes the magnitude of the challenge especially with the chauvinistic regime … [and] opposition elements … aiming to demote and belittle the lowlands. It urges that the destructive capacity of these actors not be underestimated. Supporting observations include: Eritrea “lost the opportunity to be an independent country in the 1950s”; “lost too many lives in the long war”; allowed the “EPLF … [to pursue] its exclusionary policies since inception”; “the country risks being dismantled”; and “opposition … [is aiming] at making cosmetic reforms … [to] the status quo.”

THE TRICK

The trick (out of operational drawbacks) in the document is a three-step process: put your own house in proper order”; “realize democracy, justice, and social equality”; and go for restoration of denied rights”. Although the document is clear about the first thing that should be done, i.e. putting own house in order, it is not clear whether lowlanders should first join the rest in realizing democracy, justice, and social equality”, or they should first restore the denied rights and then join the rest. There are a few clues to help us guess that the preferred route for the authors of the Wathiqa follows the three steps in the stated order. First there is the excessively pompous language around how lowlanders dumped all other options and headed for full independence”, which of course ended into annexation and untold horrors. Second is the boasting about standing up fighting tooth and nail … [for] the cause of national independence, which was eventually handed over to the demons. Third is the pride and exhilaration towards lowlanders for preserving the unity of Eritrean land and people leading to the heart-breaking frustrated declaration that lowlands cannot afford to pay the bill to preserve the unity of the nation on its own”.

The document questions the wisdom of blindly working for unity with a party that it primarily holds responsible for Shifta gang attacks and later the commandos”; “Unity Party and their associates”; “compelling the people to abandon … independence”; “the scorched land policy”; “wide spread lootings, genocides and exile”; and “forty years later … [victims neglected] in refugee camps. According to the document, in the face of these horrors, lowlanders had no option but to take arms in opposition. Here in the opposition where you least expect, the document says, similar elements took it upon themselves to “side-line [the lowlands] and belittle its role, history and chances of equal and fair involvement. Their goal: hampering it from playing a leading and competitive political role in replicating history by “spearheading of the opposition movement against the current dictatorial regime. The document argues that, in spite of these malicious actions on both the government and opposition sides, it is virtually impossible to even think about “absenting or marginalizing … vast geographical as well as population proportions from the struggle for a better Eritrea without also destroying Eritrea in the process.

The document states the government part of the conspiracy adequately around at least four tangible grievances: Shifta-inspired land-grabbing policies and operations, conspiracies to block long-time refugees from returning, harassment to chase out lowlanders from the country, and human rights violations targeting lowlands activism around those grievances. The opposition side of the conspiracy was not clear (for lack of familiarity with opposition politics). Questions for someone like me would include: Which lowland group was hampered from leading? How was it possible that when lowlanders make up the majority of the organized opposition, someone is still able to “absent and marginalize”? Which lowlanders are “lowlanders” in the opposition according to the ELL and who is doing the marginalizing?

FLEXIBILITY

Asking more of these questions and leaving them unanswered, however, is what furnishes the context of ambiguities upon which the ELL expects to define a distinctive political space shaped through the call for debates and competitive proposals through a democratic process. On we go to the next article thanks to ambiguities!

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  • Michael

    Ali – I read the document but not sure I agree with any of it – I presume you leave in the comfort zone of the west but perhaps you need to open up your eyes and mind – it is the 21st century (not the 3rd or 4th centuries as they still believe in the middle east) -but what interested me most was your comment about -the following:

    Why is it that, when almost every Tigrigna may go to visit his/her family in Eritrea at will (unless they choose to make a political statement by not doing so), nearly all lowlanders (including PFDJ supporters) get into a phobia every time they think of doing what most Tigrigna take for granted?

    There are more ethnic and religious groups in Europe and North America than ever before – even they are issuing people like you and me their citizenships and nationalities they allow free movements or you can reside wherever you can afford too or want to ( except in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia were no other nationality or religion is tolerated!!)

    My sueegestion to you is try to separate HGDEF from Eritrea and go and visit your people as much as you can – it is as simple as that. It is not the tigrina people endorse or support HGDEF and it’s system as you might have been thinking!!
    Just like you they wish they can flush HGDEF and it mafia system into the toilet!!

  • selam

    Dear Gheteb ,

    You know for some people ideas and facts does n’t matter , they only want to consistently hold on their venom and spit on Eritreans . They will say every thing to stay on course and change like chameleons.

  • Hayat Adem

    Dear Gheteb,
    We had a closure yesterday and we don’t need to go back. My interest with you will always remain ideas. You don’t need to stay stuck in a hissing mode. Name me whatever chromosome coordinates, but I want you to focus on engaging positively. You are not going to gain in any other way. It is too bad, this xy chromosome girl is too tough to blink. Don’t worry about Saay. You are too pfdjite to speak for him. Besides,my olive leaf will remain extended to him until my muscles tire out.
    Hayat

  • Abinet

    Mizan
    The following caught my eyes
    You said
    ” ask any highlander even the most educated one, will tell you how much he hates agames and Amharas let alone to hold their hands,”
    Do you mind holding an Oromo hand? How about a Gurage hand? Is a Sidama hand ok?
    I feel sorry for those ” agames ” who are hosting the people who hate them. You see what I mean by the friendly fox? Yes , I never let him into my chicken house.
    I appreciate your honesty. No wonder Ato Amanuel named you Mizan. He is also an honest man.
    Good to know you.

    • Mizan

      Abinet, actually, I have to admit it has been getting better. The other good news is that most Eritreans usually end up with a better evaluation of Ethiopians once they see the truth, which is that PFDJ had been lying to them all along. But yeah we do have a lot of people who have been brainwashed into thinking very unfavorably of the habeshas of Ethiopia. Also to answer your first question, many Eritreans cannot differentiate between Oromos, Amaras, Welaita, Agew, or what have you. That’s understandable though because most Ethiopians we are exposed to speak Amharic and so we simply conclude everybody is the same to us.

      The last thing I like to mention is that many people I know who came to the USA through the Ethiopian refugee camps no longer have complete and total negative views towards Ethiopians in general and Tigrayans in particular.

      To conclude, for this Abyssinian fundamentalism to materialize and become a grassroots kind of movement, I hope those who have that fear can see that a lot of brainwashing must be undone. It maybe an elite movement but in my opinion, it’s not popular at all.

  • tes

    Dear Mizan,

    I agree with you on most but I think we have an understanding gap on the dismantlement issue. Dismantling has nothing to do with national structure. Eritrea like any other country needs security to maintain peace and stability, both from inside and outside. Eritrea needs a responsible and strong government who is abided by rule of law.

    On the other hand, PFDJ ruined our defence force by introducing a forced military and unlimmited period militarization. On the military force, it followed a guerrilla structure. And worse, soldiers are forced to work in a slave labour. Is this what a military force is?

    Dear Mizan, I want to have a strong nation and I do believe PFDJ system will never never build a strong nation but a ruined one. For this, PFDJ system is not about the hardware structure, it is the software, the ideology that I am against with.

    Concerning Hayat Adem, I oppose her stand and many times I reacted. When Haile TG was here with us, even we reached to a level where she started to think about her way. She said it openly and at that time I was a strong argument with her and this was when she called an open intervention of Ethiopia. We shpwed that she is doing a big mistake and she took a point to think about. Still she looks standing in her principle as no one challenged her in civility.

    What I opppose is to use defamation words or trying to portrait a false personality image about the one who disagree with (read Nitriccay’s words, for considering me as an alcoholic man bla bla). The good thing about me is, I know myself and I do care less when people perceive me or describe wrongly. I am who I am.

    The rest, just thank you for your compliments and the added values.

    regards
    tes

  • tes

    Dear Gheteb,

    The more you try to protect the decent man the more I see the weakness and a means to nurture a cult. The decent man is of no in shame to reform on of the most brutal system Africa has ever seen. You are much better if you defend the people who are again in the verge of being administered by reformed PFDJ system.

    Hayat Adem has survived a brutal attack from this decent man you are calling and she is always a target. The decent man failed to show her the way to justice and she continued to stand in her firm stand. The decent man nurtured a confused Nitricc to go after her and the confused graduate student showed his dumpness and fearless motion to fragment her. The mentor and the mentored failed as their means was not different from that of the PFDJ approach.

    And now, you joined and became the means to construct from the ashes. You stood against Hayat Adem through defamation. You came with a different angle but with the same tone of the decent man. And now, you are stripping her identity which is of typical defamation tactic that has let us where we are.

    Dear Gheteb, you can be better than that. Defending one man who is never shy to reform a dictatorial system by removing one man and installing a military regime is just a fatal error that will never be accepted by all standards but rebuked by all means as it is not a means to the Justice.

    With all respect, I stay firm to challenge your approach as I believe it is a dictatorial system.

    tes

    • Fnote Selam

      Dear Tes,

      I have one quick question regarding your statement about Saay’s position. I really dont want to start any confrontation between him and you, and I dont want to sound I am defending one person or the other. I just want one clarification; are you saying reforming PFDJ to a degree that PFDJ becomes a sensible organization is IMPOSSIBLE, OR the kind of reforms Saay is proposing are simply bad (and would not be good enough to make PFDJ sensible organization)?

      Thank you,

      FS,

      • tes

        Dear FS,

        I think I discussed this with you before and you took a note unless you forgot. It is better if you go back and refer your note where I stand regarding to what you are asking.

        With Regards

        tes

        • Fnote Selam

          Dear Tes,

          We discussed the PFDJ system as a topic and I have a clear understanding where you stand. In this case I was just asking in relation to Saay’s proposal. But it is ok, I dont want to drag you to something you dont want to talk about.

          Thanks for your time,

          FS.

          • tes

            Dear FS,

            It is not what I don’t to talk about. You specifically asked me what I mean about PFDJ system and I discussed to my level best what I mean. I will not be tired if you want more discussion. You put always a single line but I discuss and you know what I mean.

            Now, investigator FS is coming back and wants to see what I mean regarding the decent man. Well, FS, regarding the decent man, it is inline to my interpretation and I did almost now the same for more than a year. Nothing new I am saying about the decent man. You better know that. I just raised the same in reply to Gheteb. Therefore, don’t mis’interpret my response to you. I am not a lazy person. I just felt that I will repeat the same thing to the same person.

            With regards
            tes

          • Fnote Selam

            Dear Tes,

            I really don’t care what you think of Saay (none of my business). His proposal on the other hand is important to me as it affects my country and the people that I belong to. I just want to see what your opinion is regarding reforming PFDJ in relation to Saay’s proposal. I re-write my question here:-

            A) Are you saying reforming PFDJ to a degree that PFDJ becomes a sensible organization is IMPOSSIBLE,

            OR

            B) the kind of reforms Saay is proposing are simply bad (and would not be good enough to make PFDJ sensible organization)?

            You could say A or B or there is no difference between the two or any other opinion that you may have.

            I don’t think I have asked you this question before. If it feels like that, please accept my apologies.

            BTW, I dont consider myself investigator. As I said many times, I am relatively new comer to this forum or any Eritrean opposition movements (mainly because I am relatively young and left the country just a few years ago). For some years, I never bothered to think or discuss or take cation regarding situation in Eritrea, but now I realize that is not the right attitude and I trying to learn as much as I can by asking for other people’s opinions.

            Thank you,

            FS.

          • tes

            Dear FS,

            I do respect your approach but if you are claiming that you are a student and in the process of learning I do share also the same. I am very very new to this struggle and hence I can’t be different. I just got engaged with with you thinking that it was a kind of give and take.

            Regarding the decent man, his approach and specially to use military coup just to remove the dictator, IA, is not what Eritreans are looking for rather this is what the decent man wants to be.

            Regarding making PFDJ as a responsible organization, well, I wish it had been in that way when it was a trusted fron by the majority now the course is the reverse.

            By the way, why we need an organization again? We need a government, a strong and responsible government. We all know what a government is when we are out of Eritrea. PFDJ pbrainwashed us that PFDJ = government and we took it in that way. yes he is, but not it because the government is like that but he hijacked the government and told us that they are one.

            Therefore, Eritrean government should be separated from PFDJ and this is one step in the dismantling process. Mind though, PFDJ if it changed itself, as its charter implies, into a party, then, it is upto the party members on how they can win the sit though I have a strong believe that PFDJ as a political power should be banned in Eritrea.

            I mentioned the PFDJ charter 1994 here because, in that charter, PFDJ is a “FRONT” not a party and his mission was to form multy party system that form the government.

            tes

          • Fnote Selam

            Hi Tes,

            That answers most part of the question I had, thank you! Regarding your suggestion that our discussion should be give and take, here is what I think of Saay’s proposal (since we are talking about it).

            I think his proposal is probably the least disruptive and may be less painful, but it is highly dependent on people within the government (or PFDJ) who genuinely believe in and respect the people, and have a genuine ambition for democratic and prosperous Eritrea. As far as I know those kind of people are either in jail, sidelined or exiled and the ambition of the powerful people within the current army and government is limited to land-cruisers, liquor and roughing the little man. Hence, chances of Saay’s proposal happening are very low, in my opinion. Having said that, if he knows things that I dont know and is convinced that there are people within the current govt/PFDJ that can lead us to the kind of reform he is advocating through radical change, I would be very happy to be proven wrong. However, there is nothing that I have seen in his comments or articles (as far I know, i.e.,) that makes me see him less than a true advocate for Eritrea and Eritreans.

            Best regards,

            FS.

          • tes

            Dear FS,

            You put, “However, there is nothing that I have seen in his comments or articles (as far I know, i.e.,) that makes me see him less than a true advocate for Eritrea and Eritreans.”

            What do you mean by this exactly? Is it taken from my statements? Just curious to know why you put it in this way if it has any relation with what I said?

            tes

          • Fnote Selam

            Dear Tes,

            That last statement is my opinion of Saay. Granted it may or may not be right, I only know of him from his articles and comments, thus my judgement has its limitations. And I included that statement to assure him that although I am very doubtful of his proposal, that doesn’t mean I question his intentions for the good of Eritrea and its people. I want you to understand that it has nothing to do with your opinion (or comments) of Saay. If you remember I said similar thing to you at the end of one of our discussion, i.e., I told you that even when I disagree with some of your opinion, I support your struggle for the betterment of Eritrea.

            I hope this clarifies it,

            Thank you,

            FS.

          • tes

            Dear FS,

            Thank you for the clarification. As per your opinion, I am of a strong believe that the decent man is a strong advocator of Eritrea by Eritreans. This is the strongest side of Saleh Younis that I always respect and try to promote. I do stand by principle and by deeds that Eritrean problem should be left for Eritrean themselves.

            But I believe at the sametime, this principle is misinterprated and now is using as a means to divide Eritreans, an easy example is the two youth organizations. I was very optimistic first about these two youth organizations but now observing their way of interpretation and the tit-for-tat baseless arguments but just as a cover-up for their political failures, I lost my belief on them.

            Eritrea for Eritreans is a very simple truth and that relies on our sovereignity. I am not blindly saying that no one is questioning for that. But those who question are just opportunists and all we need is to come strong. Opportunists are always opportunists and they will look into our weakness. And when we propagate just for political consumption like that of Eritrea for Eritreans, they come and think that we are trying the last trial to maintain our sovereignity though it is not. Eritreans at any time are there to remain as they are.

            On the other talk: Saleh Younis’s weak point is his “One-Man” strip advocacy. May be as a well-informed citizen, DIA could be the main problem and indeed it is. But, Eritrean problem now goes beyond DIA, it is the system that DIA designed with his puppets and then his enforcers that is keeping the nation at brisk.

            PFDJ members are just just now the tools to run the system and any man who takes a PFDJ office at anytime becomes a puppet to the system, that is dictating the people.

            Therefore, Saleh Younis, yes he worked the Eritrean rights to be the sole owners of their affairs and did more than I can imagine in this regard but in solving Eritrean internal problems failled as he was only against one man. Worse, his surgical proposal by using EDF as a tool is another worst thing.

            tes

          • Fnote Selam

            Dear Tes,

            I understand your feeling and your point of view. I will be back asking for more of your opinion?

            Thanks,

            FS.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dear Fnote Selam,

            So far, I believe you have your own evaluation as to the structural definition of the regime. I don’t doubt about that; and sure you have. What you have to do is, check the proposals presented so far as to whether it is feasible or not to the structural reading of the regime you have in your mind. Saay has defined the regime as single man institution, and there is no system as such in the structure of governance of Eritrea, therefore his proposal focus squarely to remove the single man, as he is the only institution himself. The other side’s proposal tries to approach that there is a strong institutionalized pyramidal structure, top to bottom lead by the PFDJ party. The army ( the senior and junior ranks) and the security apparatus are entrenched in the party and in the government, so the strategy should be a holistic approach to dismantle the system rather than to a single man. As to the detail how to handle the nitty-gritty of the army and civic services in relation with the system, it could only be handled by a special protocol assigned during the transitional process.

            regards,

          • Mizan

            Good to see you back Aman the class act!

          • Nitricc

            Aman_H you said..
            “The other side’s proposal tries to approach that there is a strong institutionalized pyramidal structure, top to bottom lead by the PFDJ party. The army ( the senior and junior ranks) and the security apparatus are entrenched in the party and in the government. So the strategy should be a holistic approach to dismantle the system rather than to a single man.”

            Aren’t you contradicting your self when you said the above I have quoted you?
            If you believe in is a strong institutionalized pyramidal structure, top to bottom lead by the PFDJ party then taking out the top don’t you think will change the pyramid? We all know who on the top is. And if you answer is no, the top won’t change the pyramid then you are contradicting your self; however if your answer is yes, then you are agreeing with what SAAY proposed.
            The point is, you can not have a strong institution in Africa with out a strong and iron fist leader or dictator, hence, removing the top, should completely change the pyramid.

          • Fnote Selam

            Dear Amanuel,

            I did in fact weighed in whether Saay’s proposal is feasible or not; I said chances of it happening (depending of what I know so far) is very low.

            Regarding Saay’s description of regime as single man institution (if in fact that is Saay’s position) has some truth in it, IMO. Evidence, IA does things at his whims without any accountability to any one what so ever. That doesn’t happen in an institutionalized organization (evil or good organization) . He, of course, (taking advantage of enormous support Eris (rather foolishly) gave him) has built a system that permeates down to every corner of our society, but at the end of the day, everything revolves around him. However, that is not to say that if we remove IA everything will be fine. Our challenges are way far more daunting than that and our solution (as you stated repeatedly) has to go beyond removing IA and be ‘holistic’.

            IMO, your proposal is the most righteous one, but the riskiest as well. The tendency to defer the nitty-gritty to later time, I think, makes it weaker. Addressing those issues, to some extent, as part of the proposal would make it more compelling. That is my opinion.

            Best,

            FS.

          • Nitricc

            FS; i think you are a little of the track. what we are saying is this, since there no any unified, strong and organized opposition; the best and the safest avenue for change is reforming the reformable members of PFDJ. once we get in and then we can stire the ship where its to go. to make my point more profound; answer me this. let’s get rid of the entire members of PFDJ and eradicate them completely, then what? who do you have to assume the power? who? this is we keep asking and all we got is this childish slogan “weed-out PFDJ” from the likes of Semere, Aman-H and Tes,
            SAAY asked for alternative and all he got was name-calling.
            again I ask you, if we go with weed-out crowd and weed out PFDJ; who do we have to assume the power?
            don’t forget TPLF thugs are waiting in the wing for any opportunity to put their henchman in power so they can manage Eritrea from Mekelle.

          • Fnote Selam

            Dear Nitricc,

            I am really sorry, but I am sure I am following what you are saying. I would appreciate if you could elaborate more.

            Thanks,

            FS.

          • Semere Andom

            Hi FS:
            We are all here to learn, not only our history, which is a victim as much as the people, but also to learn and foster tolerance, debate, patience so your attitude is right one, do not second guess that. And the people in the know Gadi, Emma and Mahmud and Saay are more than willing to answer and help discerning from their record of doing so, I am also sure there others who are quite. So keep doing what you are doing to contribute by asking.
            As to reforming PFDJ is concerned, I believe it is impossble, reforming conjures up an image of a criminal who truly is remorseful and is given a second chance to redeem himself/herself and some criminals do get reformed and get integrated back to society to contribute But many criminals and rapist and I consider PFDJ a criminal and a rapist, almost always offend again and many are denied parole for the propensity to offend again.
            But if reforming means that some member of the PFDJ who are not really criminals, but are there with heavy heart at what the criminal wing of PFDJ is doing and get opportunity to be in charge by amputating the criminal wing, then that is possible. When we say PFDJ cannot be reformed, I mean the criminal wing and for that reason it can only be amputated like a cancerous body part. And Sal’s reforming idea is based on the later scenario, I think: cut the head (the criminal wing) and the body (the none criminal wing) will either wither away or be change is ho he once put it to me. Burring the head with the their help. It is in this light that the debate rages. But the reformist like Nitricc want to the criminal wing part of PFDJ to mend its way and rehabilitate; impossible and even if they promise we cannot take that risk, they have promised many times and broken many hearts. Weed out the criminal wing of PFDJ, castrate the wannabe criminal wing and cleanse the non-criminal wing.
            But be aware this is not clear cut. The criminal wing is not just concentrated on the top, they can be a doctor who is saving lives, a director at EriTv, a foot soldier, a shope keeper or even a taxi driver and the non-crimianl wing can be on the top, cowardly living his life immorally corting the criminal wing, we cannot weed out people for cowardice and selfishness and narcissism .
            I hope this helps

          • Fnote Selam

            Dear Semere,

            Thank you!

            Your take on the matter of reforming PFDJ is very interesting and I think it makes relatively more clear as what people mean when they say ‘reform/dismantle/weed’ PFDJ. One of the questions that I have in relation to this (and I dont think it is discussed sufficiently) is what to do with Tegadelti. I think, Tegadelti as a group have greater potential (for good or for bad; and more than any other group) to influence any transitional period in Eritrea. Any idea how to approach the issue of Tegadelti?

            Best,

            FS.

          • Semere Andom

            Thanks FS:
            There was heated discussion between Mahmud and HaileTG and I about this a while back. My sand is this for the tegadalti;
            They spent their productive years in the trenches to carve Eritrea. And carve it they did, albeit a disabled. I have no issue if we apply affirmative action to positively discriminate so they can makeup for time lost while the rest made life for themselves. It was heart wrenching to see them humialted , unable to pay for a cup of tea, cashiered by EPLF. I believe in balancing the transition from the tegadalai run to a civilian and professionally run administration in every aspect of our nation, starting from the top. This, even in principle has never being articulated while the much demonized TPLF did in principle articulated it via its late PM’s words. Oh, I know of the new blood that does not apply to the top, it was travesty.
            By this time we should have been able to have a civilian fledgling democracy in Eritrea, where the civilians and former freedom fighter compliment each other in filling the gap of slow transition. But after 25 years of abuse they have lost both legitimacy and trust of the people and they have to meet their creator (the Eritrean people) individually. Remember, there is the criminal wing, the “etnay gedeseni” and wannabe criminals, waiting in the shadows for an opportunity for their turn. There is no collective guilty nor collective courage nor collective cowardice in this case, the free ride the criminal tegadalati would have enjoyed has evaporated because of their crime laden tenure and abusive tonner.
            As Mahmud says, they are also the vicitms and their pain is even deeper, they are wounded, they feel betrayed,yet for the criminal wings, PFDJ is the best thing that happened to them, they have made the time lost many times over by their criminal activity to amass millions from organ trafficking and human smuggling by using their power.

          • Fnote Selam

            Hi Semere,

            I must have missed the convo between Mahmud and Haile. All you have said here is more or less true, but what I was focusing was those Tegadelti who are acting as civil servants all over the country and most middle level government offices (not the generals or high level officials). They may not be absolutely critical to IA/PFDJ, but they do help keep things in control. Also, they hold some critical info about the population (ኦርኒክ), gov employee and projects. So whoever takes power next in Eri will have to deal with them. But, more importantly, in current situation, opposition groups could benefit greatly by recruiting them. I agree, it is not easy at all, but doable if one has effective recruiting plan. You see what I am trying to say?

            FS.

          • Fnote Selam

            Hi Semere,

            I must have missed the convo between Mahmud and Haile. All you have said here is more or less true, but what I was focusing was those Tegadelti who are acting as civil servants all over the country and most middle level government offices (not the generals or high level officials). They may not be absolutely critical to IA/PFDJ, but they do help keep things in control. Also, they hold some critical info about the population (ኦርኒክ), gov employee and projects. So whoever takes power next in Eri will have to deal with them. But, more importantly, in current situation, opposition groups could benefit greatly by recruiting them. I agree, it is not easy at all, but doable if one has effective recruiting plan. You see what I am trying to say?

            FS.

          • tes

            Dear FS,

            You asked to Semere and I will wait his response. But I think you are missing the concept of weeding out. Mahmud has a very good interpretation of this concept. About officers who are working under current system, the criminals will be asked for their deeds. That is it.

            By the way, aren’t Tegadelti Eritreans? Why are you segregating them as alien people? Waiting your reply till Seemere comes wih his clarification.

            tes

          • Fnote Selam

            Dear Tes,

            While waiting for Semere to response, I want to clarify a few things. In my reply to Semere, I was referring to civil servants (not army officers). Civil servant or military officer, any crime committed in Eri should be duly addressed.

            I am not trying to segregate Tegadelti as aliens. I think Tegadelti (as a group) have failed to integrate to Eri’s civil society (many think that was by plan) and they received special privileges (deservedly or not; small or big) and continue to be entrusted to important positions more than gebar (for the lack of better term). I believe, for good or for worse, they will have important influence in any transitional period in Eri.

            Best,

            FS.

      • selam

        Dear Fnote. S
        I have been visiting awate.com for long time but I am almost new to comment except these few days or may be weeks .Now i am short to understand how some people see the Eritrean people , some of them think the Eritrean people at large are ignorant, motionless , have no clue about IA. And some of them choose to work for weyane and forget the life of our heroes .And some of them think they are the only opposition with better idea so no one is allowed to have any comment about their vision.

        Can you take on these people who thinks they are the only valid opposition and the people ESHI GOYTAYE.

    • Nitricc

      Tes;
      I am convinced you are Alcohol drinker, chemical dependent or flat out crazy bipolar. SAAY gave an ample opportunity come with alternatives to his a way out and your answer was calling him “chauvinistic” and stupid two words “weed-out PFDJ. The truth is you have nothing just an empty air head talkative. I suggest you concentrate on your study; the study of dictionary.
      I know you don’t get it but here is for you something to chow.

      “You must welcome change as the rule but not as your ruler”

      I know I am wasting my time; you will never get it what it means.

      • tes

        Nitricc,

        I do believe that Eritreans are chained to death and this is because of PFDJ system. When the chain is removed, the people are capable to bring a solution for themselves. I am not an elite who writes guidelines to the people whom they are living in chains. If the one that you defend had a solution, his 15 years work could have worked it out. For this, I consider the man that you defend as an Eritrean who is doing his best to fight against the one-man. It is his approach and I respect but his methodology didn’t work and I said this because we are where are now. He could have used his intelligence to rally people against the system and for sure by now we could have being free.

        Therefore, if the methodology propagated by the man that you defend didn’t work for the last 15 years, let’s take that as a lesson and weed-out the system as a whole.

        tes

        • Nitricc

          Tes, you are feeling me? fine, let’s weed-out PFDJ; tell how we going to do it? what is the plan? who are replacing the PFDJ with? should we replace the PFDJ with the so-called oppositions from Tigray?
          i am trying to be civil and reasonable with you but all i am getting from you is weed-out. file let’s weed out, please tell me how is done.
          for my plan and way out read what have told FS.

          • Kokhob Selam

            Dear Nitricc, it seems now you have agreed on change. If you agree change must take place, you must be for change and give us also your alternative like Saay 7 and other are doing. you don’t have to blame others all you have to do is be part of change armed with tooth (if you want).

            Nitricc, what could Eritrean People do if they have more like you guys? “ከብዲ ኣደ ጉራምራ “Thanks God Eritrea is full of heroes working right on the ground.

          • tes

            Dear KS,

            He has thousands of miles to go before he convince himself to agree. Neverthless I appreciate your peace loving approach.

            Regards
            tes

          • tes

            Dear Nitricc,

            I don’t know how you are managing to talk with a bipolar and alcoholic tes? Aren’t you fade-up?

            To the point: I am not saying, “replacing PFDJ”. There is nothing to be replaced. Replacement is to bring someone and take-put anything that was in that place or position. If you are thinking someone to replace someone else and if that is your interpretation of “weeding-out”, I could only say, you were not paying attention but afraid of someone who might come from Dedebit. I understood you long time ago but now you just said it by yourself.

            Ok, dear Nitricc, there is nothing to be replaced. I think you know what a “weed” is. Weed is something that grows in unwanted place so is PFDJ. Then simple weed-out the unwanted system and the people will be there as usual. Eritreans are not alien people. They have lived there for thousands years and they had their own wisdom of managing their life. PFDJ is only 20 years old. And removing a 20 years unwanted plant and living the more than 2000 years plant there is a wise thing to do.(I mentioned 2000 just to refer of recent and well organized sedentary administration, governance and civilization of these people) and more, PFDJ did not create Eritrea. Eritrea was there from the very beginning and lets leave it as it is.

            tes

  • Mizan

    Gheteb, you have proven beyond doubt to me that you are one heck of a brilliant person. I would like to see you engage in a more positive manner beyond the shadow of Person XY and offer much needed solutions to the current quagmire we Eritreans find ourselves in. I would really hate for you to go back, however, and lecture us on how great the revolutionary war for independence was. Most Eritreans believe that wholeheartedly although I am one who have great doubts about it. How do we get out of where we find ourselves in? I know you unflinchingly reject any assistance from Ethiopia, understandable. I would like to know what your ideas are on how we can get out of this. Because I really want to see our people have hope and vision in their own country instead of elsewhere and we have capable people like yourself, Amanuel Hidrat, Semere Andom, to name a few.

  • saay7

    Selamat Gheteb:

    I will say quick notes here but it probably won’t be quick note:)

    1. Both in the front page, and in its forum, the Awate Team uses its signature name “Awate Team”, “Awate Moderator”, “Awate.”

    2. When a message that admonishes an Awatista is posted here, it will come either from “Awate” (as it did in this case) or as an edit to the posting from “moderator.” (This is because disqus still doesn’t have private messaging capability and most people are unresponsible to private email to the email address they gave disqus when they registered.)

    3. The public faces of Awate Team, SGJ and SAAY, participate as individuals in the front pages and the forum. (We are of mixed minds on this: for years we didn’t, no we do, kinda.) It is not unusual for us to take different stands on issues big (how to bring about change to Eritrea; how the Eritrea-Ethiopia border war started and escalated) and small (constructive and destructive awatistas.)

    4. In the case of this question, if one of us suspects that an awatista is attempting to mislead members by fraudulent identity, what is the remedy? 99% of the time, we use the advice of Matthew 7: 15-20 “And you shall know them by their fruits.” And we let go. But sometimes it becomes necessary to say, “you DO know you are not fooling anyone, right?” If you are intent on presenting yourself as an opposition, and an Eritrean Muslim, and one who wants to bleed for “Habesha” and “highland demography”, make a little effort and read Majlis Ibrahim Mukhtar report. Or the ELL report. Then, you can pass.

    5. The SAAY was a “cheerleader” or fueled the Eritrea-Ethiopia border conflict is straight from the T.Kifle school of misrepresentation. If you are an Ethiopian and you say that, you are a worthy adversary and, time permitting, I will engage you. If you are an Eritrean and you say that, you are lazy and you were disengaged during that era. Here’s your cheat sheet for you, from the standpoint of the AU/US/UN/EU and anybody who was trying to facilitate peace during that time:

    a. May 1998 – February 1999: (9 months): Eritrea slow-walked US-Rwanda and OAU Framework Agreement and kept asking for clarification until events overtook us.
    b. July 1999 – : Eritrea immediately accepts OAU Modalities which call for cessation of hostilities. Ethiopia slow-walks and stalls and “accepts in principle”: refuses to sign agreement, refuses ceasefire proposal.
    c. August 1999: Eritrea and Ethiopia agree to accept, in advance, the “Technical Arrangements for the Implementation of the Modalities and Framework Agreement.” After it had given its word that it would accept it in advance, Ethiopia reneges: it has questions on the Technical Arrangements and proposes Modified Technical Arrangements.
    d. May 12, 2000: Ethiopia launches its offensive, takes back every contested land, occupies other uncontested land, and repeatedly attempts, and fails, to occupy Assab. Asked why he is making an attempt to go after uncontested land, the late Prime Minister Meles Zenawi says something like the shortest distance between two points is not a straight line.
    e. June 18, 2000: Eritrea and Ethiopia sign a ceasefire agreement. Ethiopia says, that even after the ceasefire agreement, it may have to do some cleanup work. That is, it is not a real ceasefire agreement.
    f. December 2000: Algiers Agreement is signed and both parties, agree in advance, that they will leave demarcation of the land to expert UN cartographers, after they mutually agree on the judges that will make up the Eritrea Ethiopia Boundary Commission. (EEBC) But after EEBC issues its ruling, Ethiopia goes on vilification campaign of judges it had approved in advance (calling them old and disconnected from the land) and goes into familiar reneging, and renegotiation and 5-Point Plans.
    g. March 2015: Thats where we are: the land is not demarcated, there is no closure to the issue.

    Now, I would like an Eritrean and Ethiopian (one who bases his/her decisions on facts and not emotional blackmail) to go through our martyr’s database for the period of May 1998 – December 2000 and tell me where and when we lost most of our precious sons and daughters. And I would like to turn the tables on those who were either silent, or blaming Isaias/PFDJ for everything, where were you when Ethiopia decided to be entirely lawless, when it decided that the “peace process” was just a re-armament phase? Did you approve of that? Is that just the “logic of war”? If you are an Eritrean, how can a lawless country be relied upon as your partner for rule of law?

    6. I believe the one thing holding back the Eritrean opposition from being a potent force for change is because it doesn’t believe, or is indifferent to, the Eritrean narrative. There is a reason why Eritreans refer to the time period of 1998-2000 as interspersed with Kalay Werar (Second Offensive) and Salsay Werar (Third Offensive.) That is our narrative, our history. Terrible things happen in wars: if you spend all your time repeating Ethiopian grievances but then dismiss Eritrean grievances as ancient history, you do not know your people: what hurts them and what grieves them.

    7. Finally, Gheteb, it is a mistake for you to refuse to engage Ethiopians. Just as it is impossible to tell who is female Muslim Eritrean, it is impossible to tell (until you see a pattern) who is here in the Service of Her Weyaneness and who is just an ordinary Ethiopian citizen attending awate university. What this website lacks is in Eritreans informed enough on Eritrean history to take up her cause– I consider you as one of the few, and it is crucial you stick around. And you need to do that notwithstanding the “my, oh my, oh my, lordy, lordy, oh lord, well I never! I am so offended” fake outrage by your XY or the attempts to marginalize you by T.Kifle.

    Engage, Number 1

    saay

  • Nitricc

    “No Eritrean that I know of called for Ethiopia to invade Eritrea, getting help from them is a different matter, is that what you did in 1981 when the Dergi offensive was raging, now the PFDJ offensive is raging and we are asking the opposition to get its act together and get the needed help from Ethiopia by promising Ethiopia only to be a good peaceful neighbor”

    If EPLF and TPLF agreed to help each other for the purpose of survival in a jungle; they can do that because they are rebels and they are not bound by any international rule of law and state to state regulations or the UN. But IQ says no problem we can go back to the 80’s and we can do the same.
    Again IQ matters. If not, the respective rebels groups have emerged in to statehood and sovereign countries; how on earth can you call an action from TPLF? Any action taken is nothing but invasion of full flagged sovereign country.

    “About settling with Nitricc, she does not have to, she is way byond his league, Nitricc is a fly she is a giant.”

    Which one is more intriguing; when a person calls a human a “fly”
    Or when he said
    “When we have our national censuses; Hayat Adam should be count as two people”
    Again IQ matters!

    “ Hayat as a male , non Muslim and non-Eritrean. According to your definition about who is Eritrean of where your heart lies, then Hayat is more Eritrean than Nitricc because his heart does not lie for Eritrea, like PFDJ.”

    Hahahah I like this part what the high IQ has to say…
    “Nitricc because his heart does not lie for Eritrea, like PFDJ.”

    We agreed; I have never lied about my love to Eritrea; thanks.

    “No one in this website, who claims he is Eritrean has glorifed TPLF and Ethiopia, unless your definition of glorifying is saying that TPLF and Woyane,”

    What a coward and a lair; why don’t you read the 700 articles your mistress wrote? Falling in love with herhim is different with the facts.
    Semere how about the qeustion i have asked about the vaction? no worries i got it.

  • Mahmud Saleh

    Dear face it

    You are missing the point. I am specifically replying with the “country of origin” or “citizenship” in mind, because that’s the source of the complaint. Hayat Adem tried to reason that because SAAY is trusted with information she gave to Awate.com, SAAY’s description of her in a fashion which raises eyebrows would put her in a disadvantageous position with people who question her nation of origin. So, stick to the “nation of origin.” If you think Awate could hack into your computer using IPN or into your email account, then don’t do transactions with them. I don’t believe so. Now, my question to you is: have you given any information that would determine your nation of origin while filling those few spaces in order to participate on this forum? That’s the question. I know Hayat as an awatista, therefore, she must have filled out the spaces I filled; in any case you can fill those spaces with nicks or names other than your names; you could establish emails, facebook…youtube…g+…using names other than yours. If you are using a computer registered to other person than, like using a family or an institute one then IPN use in determining the persons identity diminishes.

    If you are talking about illegal activities of hacking, then the game is different. As you said, I don’t hide the fact that I am ignorant when it comes to electronic mediums, but according to my readings, which I did before replying, even in those cases, one can only infer from activities the user undergo, or from open expressions through postings in their accounts and the network of friends they interact with, and/or explicit exchanges they provide in their emails or fb…specific information that discloses their nation of origin. I have no reason to suspect AT would go that low. They have a mission higher than that. Bottom line: If you suspect the institution you want to do transaction with might go fishing for your personal information, don’t give it vital information. I would be grateful, if you enlighten me on things I am missing.

    https://www.priv.gc.ca/information/research-recherche/2013/ip_201305_e.asp#toc_e4

  • Mahmud Saleh

    Dear Semere
    Regarding Hayat, please check out my reply to KS, you will see why I took the position I took and I’m firmly grounded. It’s based on facts. What facts did you give Awate that would tell them your national origin? Why would saay ponder where she was from if he knew where she was from? (According to you, once he asked her where she was from). So, please, let’s be real. Check out entries you would fill out to qualify as an awatista, and you will find out there is nothing important of a personal information. Anyway, that should be regarding this one.
    Nitricc: I differed with him where we did not agree, advised him when I thought he needed one, but over all, he respects those who respect him. Just read your description of him. Is that fair semere? How do you expect him to treat you asymmetrically in favor of you when you don’t accord him that reciprocity? I see the man replying with respect even to Ethiopians who are known to have harsh words for Eritreans when those folks communicate with him respectfully. It was not fair to for AT to just cite his weaknesses without pointing out to the provocateurs like you ( I love you semere, but that what honest men do, tell each other the truth). So, please help AT and the forum in pursuing de-escalating strategies. Be the leader that most of the time you are.
    On PFDJ: my views on PFDJ, please semere, you know it. But you are carried to your comfort zone whenever you hear slightly different lines, accusing people of aligning with PFDJ. You have the potential, cultural diversity advantage, well-read regarding Eritreans’ internal problems and the evolution of their political struggle, including factors that’s becoming stumbling block in creating a unified force. I will be there with you once, you recalibrate your bearings in a fashion that examines what it’s that’s holding us stand suspicious of one another. Regarding EPLF, it’s a legacy of everyone, including my dear friend KS; on the other hand the legacy of ELF is mine too.

    • Semere Andom

      Hi Mahmud:
      I wrote that comment between “halewa” duty so let me clarify now;-)
      I never said or meant to imply that you support PFDJ, even in my nomination comment that has been postponed for 2015, one of the reasons was your unequivocal stand an delineation between PFDJ and EPLF. So get over that. You are clear on that and I am clear that you are clear
      On Sal’s question to Hayat, I meant to reinforce that Sal is cool headed and even that question it was in in a context of heated debate, I did not think it was inappropriate, but he thought it was and he explained and apologized unprompted. I was giving the guy credit, but because “eten wotehaderat yhalfa slezinebera nkeshafa aglise nere.’ 🙂

  • AMAN

    Dear Awates
    Most or greater part of the current problems in Eritrea- Ethiopia relations
    is not rooted or due to the boarder war that took place in 1998-2000.
    Rather it is from the post war behaviours and attitudes as a result of the war.
    The erraticaly distorted media lead public opinions that shaped the policies
    and norms of relations between the people’s of the two states have done more
    damage than benefit or more damage than the war itself.
    But due to the new era of information age they didn’t attain or achieve their intended
    purposes but gave themselves away to defeat and confusion. So the primary culprit
    or criminal is the amateurish media that war born from rubbish in Ethiopia during that
    time period. No matter what good is done by government and peace loving citizens
    of the tow countries and peoples the inexperienced media dashed and extravagantly
    wasted it away to safeguard the interests of narrow minority lead orgs.which were unable
    to transform themselves and cope with time or present reality. This orgs. which were meant
    or formed for different purposes than demogratic governance were not able to provide the
    necessary platforms for enlightened politicians and moderate personalities but were only
    playgrounds for outlaw personalities and corrupt or subversive politicians and elements.
    So if there is anyone to blame for all these subversion and corrupt political culture to flourish
    it is none but the MEDIA that was given unreserved power to be whatever it want in Ethiopia.
    And surely it has ditiched the country and the people in to the present quagmire and confusion
    despite so much work and sacrifice by all patriotic and peace loving citizens of the Eritrea/Ethiopia.
    I was raising my voice so loud that something should be done about this unruly media and its unruly
    media culture before it is too late. But nobody seemed to pay attention while the corrupt media was
    bullying many patriots and citizens I or ME being one of those victims prompting me to defend myself
    by countering it. And it worked for me from being victimized further by its merciless brutal treatment.
    I hope and believe many other have the same observation about it like me.
    Therefor the ONLY enemy of the Eritrean / Ethiopian people was only THE MEDIA.
    And the government was wrong to TRUST these media and to base its policies on its opinions.
    Thus a whole new and opposite version of that what have been done by those medias MUST or
    SHOULD be launched and be done anew which brings peace and trust (exactly oppositie of those
    that has been done by those now defunct medias) in its place.
    Instead of cancelling and annihilation between eachother ( government/peoples effort AND media
    presentations); it should be in its place realignment and harmonization of the two. So that both
    move in the same direction than opposite ways.

  • Kokhob Selam

    Dear Selam, what have done now? why don’t you go for peace of all? can’t you defend with out saying KORAKUR? sorry Selam, so energetic girl if you just be disciplined how much could have been nice.

    • selam

      Sorry Mr. kokhob , you see, some times the crime against our history by some is very very heartbreaking. They are trying to break the fabric of Eritrea and Eritreans. We can not just stay silent while they are using Eritrean website. In which is working very hard to give voice to the voiceless , they (WEYANE) should not get a free pass to distort our history. They should differentiate our people from HGDEF.

  • Dear Forum Members

    As of late, some commentators have been deliberatelyviolating the ethics and tradition of awate.com. In particular, the Forum guidelines have become considerable and it has reached a level where we had to intervene. Before we go into specifics, kindly note the following:

    We do not want to watch silently while people take liberty in insulting others, and promoting bigotry. We do not want to host anyone who is here to for any other reason apart from debating ideas in a civil manner.

    The attitudes of some members has been the main reason for the deterioration of the quality of debate in some threads. Please realize that this forum is open for anyone who abides by the guidelines. We appeal to all of you to have the right attitude before commenting. If some of you are coming solely to fight with a specific member, and not to exchange ideas, you are becoming a liability instead of an asset. In that spirit, we hope that all of us can reflect on our attitudes and help this forum that we all our own, to promote civility, high quality debates, and in the process learn and teach.

    1. Nitricc: you are a veteran of this forum and as such, you should recognize that you have a stake in it. The improvement of the quality of your debates should reflect that. Just count how many time you wrote “dedebit” over the last month and you will understand the implications. Indeed, you can say that to make a point, but insisting on making the point in every comment is counterproductive and the rest of the people watching get bored. Importantly, the quality of our debates deteriorate at the same speed. Please try to make your points without provoking others.

    2. Selam: It is obvious that you have the energy and you passionately debate to pass your points across. It would be more productive if you invested your energy and passion sparingly. Your one-liners are distracting the debate and the quantity of your comments makes your point incoherent. Quality before quantity. Try to compile your thoughts and make your points in a way
    that advances your views and encourages others to engage with you.

    3. Hope: You are an Angele if you just check your comments before posting them.

    4. Hayat: your complaint is well taken given the fact that awate.com has an established record of keeping the identity of users in
    confidentiality. We will not abandon that policy, never. Saay’s comment in this regard is an individual take and he is duty bound not to disclose anything about you even if he is sure of your identity. Rest assured, no one has the ability to detect any identity of users, be it religious, gender, or nationality except to speculate. Therefore, you have to take Saay’s comment in that spirit.
    If there is anything Saay wants to add as an individual, it is up to him to comment. But rest assured, he will not violate guidelines that he authored as a member of AT. Importantly, (just as an example) recognize that we let go of so many abuses in this forum and elsewhere; we hope you understand you can afford to let go of this. We are abused by people we host.

    5. Our Ethiopian friends: you have all the rights to be here just like anybody else; this forum doesn’t require a special visa–though some appoint themselves immigration officers. But please understand that this website is an Eritreans website and as such, it is natural that some here perceive themselves to have more rights that non-Eritreans. It’s wrong and we do not condone such attitudes. However, knowing that we are at our lowest situation in history, don’t try to take advantage of that and insult all Eritreans because an
    individual pissed you off. However, since neither of us can slice either countries and place them elsewhere in the world, we have to foster a common ground as a people. We are stuck in our fate. Therefore, let’s make the most of our interactions, and let’s promote peace, reconciliation and understanding. Let’s not squander this opportunity. (this applies to Eritreans as well)

    5. Gheteb: welcome home. Just please observe one minor thing: please never tell people in this forum to which website they should go, they can make their own choice. AT hosts everyone as a member of its larger family, regardless of their nationality. We do not appreciate members telling others to go somewhere else. That contradicts our policies, since we make efforts to invite everyone to come here.

    6. Tes: you have been fine so far but lately you are staring your comments with unbecoming words like “you hypocrite” and
    “you old man.” That should be beneath you, address people with the name they chose.

    7. PFDJ members: you are also more than welcome provided you believe in exchange of ideas, and appreciate the freedom of expression that the regime you support considers a crime. This is your home like everyone else, but kindly beware of importing any culture that contradicts the culture we are promoting in this forum.

    8: All members: please put the name of the person your are responding to in the beginning of your comment. We hope to get used to salutations before the name: dear so-and-so, Hi, selam, etc. Salutations do magic in disarming people and preventing belligerent attitude.

    Finally, the above were the major observations in the last few weeks and is posted here as a friendly reminder. Kindly take it in the
    spirit it is being delivered.

    Now let’s go and have some civilized debate… while respecting each other.

    NB: please note that this is not a comprehensive appraisal, and we are not picking on the people named above. It is just a simple example of how we see it as moderators.

    • tes

      Dear AT,

      Just thank you for showing us responsibility and mine is well-taken.

      tes

    • Hayat Adem

      Dear Awate,
      Thank you Awate. That is why you are the best. Greetings Saay. I acknowledge and recognize your role in building this community to this level as a member of this wonderful team. In that spirit, all is well! maElesh!
      Hayat

      • Kokhob Selam

        Dear Hayata, those days I was wondering and stop commenting, watching at our quality of debate. the question I ask was what happen to awate and why it has gone down to this level. where are our great men and women who use to teach us here ? a lot of questions came to my mind. I am happy that awate team came in correct time to guide us in such way. above all what makes me happy is when I see how much the team is matured (including Saay 7) in solving your case with Saay7. it is because I love you both. with his high knowledge Saay 7 is the best examiner of situations. he see things from different angles. But he may come from the other direction which confuses the watcher / reader and awakes to see things which are hidden. But never thinks personal and being awate team member he is disciplined. Today awate team has confirmed you so. thanks God. all my respect to you both sister.

        • Abinet

          Kemey, kemey Kokobe
          Emntay Tefika ?
          I found the following from an old song . I hope it is fitting to what you are saying.

          Kokob QoTariw awaqiw bezto
          Man yifred ?man yidagn ?
          Bedday tebedday gira tegabto
          ( Tewodros Taddesse)
          My all time favorite singer

          • saay7

            Selamat Abinet:

            How about this one from one of my fave Tekle Tesfazghi. Eyob Medhane will translate from Tigrinya to Amharic (God help us all)

            Kohobey kokhobki
            MgtTam abyom:
            FQri kmsrtu
            TeHafiferom::

            Ane gn Hasibe
            Kneber msakhi:
            Kab zeykonekna gn
            DeHan kuni ikhi::

            saay

            http://youtu.be/vt3jeJUzgAQ

          • Abinet

            Saay
            You know Tekle was my favorite Tigrinya singer although I don’t understand what he is saying ?
            “Fiqre telemeni “was I think the best . Of course “Saba ” was the most popular.
            I really enjoyed him with Roha Band . What a beautiful band it was. About a year ago I met Selam at a funeral. We chatted a little bit. Good times!
            Now I need the translation before I call Ted. Eyobe is AWOL.

          • Abinet

            Add kem dilaye (?) on the list . One of the best!

          • saay7

            Abinet:

            I hear from very reliable sources Eyob is travel king but he will be back, six shooter swinging, on Saturday. Now my translation of Tekle:

            My star and your star
            Just won’t align
            They shy away
            From
            Founding our love.

            But I pondered
            Of living with you
            But if just won’t be
            I bid you adieu

            saay

          • Abinet

            Thank you Saay
            Eyobe is back. He was here about 2 weeks ago reporting a little bit about addis. You call him travel king, I call him
            ” mengedegnaw gazeTegna”
            ( old tv program)
            I miss Eyobe. You miss Eyobay. Let’s hope he shows up.
            Thanks

          • saay7

            Abinet:

            I know he is back from Addis. He is in a different continent no doubt doing something for his Emama Ethiopia. He will be back on Saturday; I know how to get him back. I will just run non stop back copies of ZoneNine blogs. And all the other Ethiopian journalists, sorry, I mean terrorists.

            saay

          • Abinet

            Saay
            Everything for Emye Ethiopia.
            one day we will be able to differentiate journalist from a terrorist.
            YeEyobin tigist yisTen.
            Amen

          • Kokhob Selam

            ኣንተየ ምን እያልክ ነው ? ኣሁን ኣክራሪ ብመሃላችን ኣይታጣም ማለትህ ነው ? ወይ ጉድ !ተው ፖለቲካ ኣትናገር !

          • Semere Andom

            Hi Sal:
            What is going on 😉
            There is no chemistry between us
            When tehre is no affinity
            For attraction
            Impossible to found love
            I pondered to spend my life with you
            But since it is not meant to be
            I bid you adieu

          • saay7

            Hi iSem:

            Nice! But we better quit while we are ahead. Otherwise, it will become “how many Eritreans does it take to translate one song and what is its subtext” analysis. And when that happens you know what will follow: we will read our 705th comment blaming it on Italian colonialism, the alliance of ghedli killers, “kebessa demographic collapse,” the PFDJ “system”, and other assorted explanations with the requisite PS: in Ethiopia, EPRDF has invented a machine that auto-translates songs:)

            saay

          • Semere Andom

            Good morning Sal
            Actually it will be, it took you 30 years it took next door took half the time 🙂
            I was just making fun of the “starts” 🙂

          • Kokhob Selam

            እኮ !!

    • Semere Andom

      7. PFDJ members: you are also more than welcome provided you believe in exchange of ideas, and appreciate the freedom of expression that the regime you support considers a crime. This is your home like everyone else, but kindly beware of importing any culture that contradicts the culture we are promoting in this forum

      I would like to add to the above that, PFDJ memebers, just like the universal Eritrean culture be thankful to your hosts for giving you the right of expression that the very government you support is denying the entire people of Eeritrea

      • Ted

        Semere, you don’t get it, do you. Everyone here is grateful their idea or comment get heard. Ideas do belong to your group or another. Chill man.
        Cheers.

    • Kim Hanna

      Selam Awate Moderator,
      .
      It is so nice to know that the Awate University is in good steady hands. ( I am almost ready for graduation, just few semesters left)
      .
      The opening of windows and letting fresh air in was desperately needed. I will do my best to follow the guidelines.
      .
      I have read that Professor SAAY’s comment that he is looking for retirement or those long vacations… I hope he does not do that before my graduation. His views and perspective always adds to our understanding of issues, at least to mine. We need more not less of his presence.
      .
      This is just my one liner to say thank you.
      .
      K.H

    • Mizan

      I am responsible for stirring some quarrels too perhaps. I will refrain and respect the policies of this website. What you posted above is incredibly touching and I wish we could live by those rules and we probably wouldn’t be debating here rather focusing on creating new things. Much respect!

      One suggestion to AT: Perhaps the team should close this thread under “The Eritrean Lowland League….” as it has become insanely voluminous and venomous for the most part.

    • Abinet

      Thank you Team Awate. I will try my best to be more civil .

    • Nitricc

      AT I completely understand where you are coming from. As guilty as I may sound and feel, please understand what the root cause of the event is. For me it is natural to react for what I think against the best interest of Eritrea and her people. I used to think the real threat is from outside; wrong! The real danger is from people who are void to reason and principle. We are told Badime should stay put at the hand of Ethiopians; after the people of Eritrea went through hell and paid their 20K best and after the international court has spoken. Noticing at the absurdity and stupidly of the comment, we tried to look the other way. The cowards got emboldened by our silence, then they came back and they told us; Ethiopia should invade Eritrea to get rid of PFDJ. I have no idea how one whishs for a war? Most wars are started by the cowards who never fought in their life, for them, it is easy; what do they know? The fact is, all wars are ignited by the old people but it is the youth who pays the price. So when the cowards call for a war from their comfort; I am the one have to fight it out; so, if I try to fight back for my right to live in peace and avoid war; I don’t think I am going to apologize for that. There was a reason my fathers and mothers carry the gun and fought for; so I don’t have to; instead, so I can get educated to better my self and to better my people and country. Even from morality standpoint, what kind of Eritrea will call on innocent Ethiopian children to die for his cause while he is sitting aboard growing side ways collecting his welfare check? Where is the morality? Where is the ethics? I don’t who got more insulted, the Eritreans or the Ethiopians; however you slice it, the word is disgraced.

  • Mizan

    Suggestion to AT:

    Why don’t you guys only allow people to login using their Facebook, Google+, etc. accounts so you will know who is who exactly and whether people are using pen-names or real names? It is the regime supporters who are littering this website with their stupid one liners and incoherent crap. Nitricc, Ted, AMAN, Selam, L.T., to name a few.

    Using real identities will result in fewer comments. But you will still have the same number of visitors and the comments will have better quality than all the nonsensical stuff here.

    Or else, stop bullying around and telling your top commenter to go away to Tigrayonline or wherever. For all practical purposes, Nitricc is a part of AT otherwise he would have been banned long time ago.

    • selam

      I accept Gherhi challenge. But you will never insult people because if you do that, it will be a suicidal mission for you.

    • Ted

      Mizan, Fight ideas not people. Ted is good enough name for conversing ideas what else do you want from me. For starters, the forum will be stale and unproductive if the likes you pat on the back for every comment posted. Imagine- you, Semere, Hayat, Amanuel, Tes….. only are allowed to comment. You need us to tell you about your destructive rout of struggle( hopping on the tanks of TPLF towards Asmara) because most Eritrean diaspora are paralyzed with confusion and insecurity by your irresponsible act of choosing what is good for them.

      • Semere Andom

        Haha:
        Obviously you are not that observant. I have not debated Mizan that long but, I disagreed with Emma, Sal, Gadi, Haile TG, Hayat,and yes Tes. You are confusing this forum members most of whom Selam described as “Korakur” with the PFDJ run websites. All these people that you consider TPLF supporters do not advocate for TPLF to enter Asmara as it already is in Asmara, we just want to kick the TPLF in Asmara getting help from the TPLF in Addis, “Gerbe bhakhla,” you and your PFDJ have been addicted/spoiled to having any stage, any mic and any forum alone and that is is eating you alive. Thanks God he created expiry date for everything and so your DIA and his A-TPLF(Asmara TPLF)and all the supporters will expire

        • Ted

          Semere, You may disagree with them on other points but the mentioned above and you are identical on one issue, you all are’ “Yes Goytay”” That is my beef.
          “we just want to kick the TPLF in Asmara getting help from the TPLF in Addis, “Gerbe bhakhla,”

          It is immature to think it let alone say it out in public, You are endangering your kind in Mekele. If all oppositions think like you, IA will rule Eritrea beyond the grave.

  • T..T.

    The Isayasists have to focus on the long overdue explanation and clarification on the handing over of Badumma to TPLF by Isayas, which he used as the reason to ignite the border war with Ethiopia. Whenever the issue pops up here and there, the only way out for the Isayasists is to remain passive. And, if they continue to dwell on cheap campaign to attack the opposition by fabricating lies and misrepresenting it, I believe, that will draw them to humiliating and degrading treatments by all of their adversaries.

    The defamation of the opposition and its members, be it Hayat or others, will not remove the dent that every second and every minute Isayas and his blind supporters are putting on mother Eritrea and its people. In the face of the prevailing facts, the Isayasists can only improve their position by behaving nicely for otherwise their campaign of misinformation by embarking on cheap, deceptive and slippery stands will not only put the opposition on defensive but will ignite the real war of words between the opposition and the Isayasists. Since the Isayasists in every aspect of their political activities have fallen out of grace for not standing for the Eritrean people, any war of words with them will be rampageous into their background, the evidences of which will be revealing on their allegiances to the criminal Isayas and not the Eritrean people. Therefore, that kind of war, being counterproductive, it is not good for their good name presently and/or for the future.

  • Nitricc

    What is up Ermias? How are you lol you should have changed your style so just you can fool some people. No matter what nick you use; your style gives you up. Just stick with one name and be your self. You tried with Biniam; you got busted, then you tried Ermias then Guest! Why? I read your post when you stated “the great Ermias” really? Ermias Who? Great my foot! Go play with your children why waste your time in here; you are fooling no one but yourself.

    • Mizan

      You can pretend all day like you know me but you don’t and you can pretend like you are an Eritrean all day but you are not.

  • Mizan

    Dear AT, what is this – is Nitricc is a protected species? Every time I respond to him, my reply goes to the ‘being reviewed bin…’

    • selam

      1. opperation sunset pure weyane,

      2. Hayat with hidden name act like she is not weyane.who fights to distort eritrean people’s history

      3. T.kifle honest from Tigray or amhara dergi family who has a great wound in the past.

      4. Abinet honest Ethiopian , i have the highest regard for abinet the only nice person from ethiopians in awate.com

      5. Amanuel hidrat is with eshi getaye , with people who are holding our fight aganist IA.

      • Nitricc

        Selam you are forgetting one most member of “Eshi-Goytay” How dare you? You can’t strip his membership of the Eshi-Goytay club. I can’t tell you. you better do the honorable mention. Sorry Semere! for give Selam.
        Selam I have the out most respect for T-Kifle. I disagree with him but I do respect him. The problem is he doesn’t write anymore. What ever he needed to say the Eshi-Goytay” are saying it for him. In fact the Ethiopians and the Tigryans just chill out and enjoy the “ Eshi-goytay” do the job for you.

  • Semere Andom

    No, you and your PFDJ and your boyfriends at the YPFDJ will be charged with treason for working on behalf of PFDJ in raping under aged girls in Sawas during your summer intoxication project and prostitution spree

  • Mizan

    “Quick visit with H.E. Isaias Afwerki at the Logo Dam Development Project-so much to do, so much to see…” Sophia Tesfamariam. Posted on FB 3 hours ago.

    Now how many did I get convinced that Selam is Sophie.

    • sara

      Gerhi,
      i think its a matter of perception how you try to align selam with sofia, of course the choice is yours
      how about the one we all know is solomei but pretending to be someone else? sure you know who!
      she/he is here 24/7 –remember … solomei, do you.. i heard she was posted at their embassy in DC.
      again it all depends how you read what is on the screen. see dawn there and it is all evident. solomei of 98/99

      • Mizan

        Sara, I understand you completely. I just bring this up for humor quite frankly because it is impossible to conclusively claim that Selam is Sophia. The circumstance based evidence leans one to believe that is actually the case but it would be impossible to prove this in court.

        • selam

          Sara ,Do you think sophia or any one that support HGDEF will write any thing bad about IA . Why will any one who support HGDEF waste time in awate.com with out pushing his agenda and debate what he believe ? How far do you think the people with HGDEF are ignorant and you the smartest one. What are the characteristics that you accept in your opposition box

          You people are way way weak to admit any criticism of the opposition . You believe or not i do nto care what you say and what you think. But any political sphere should be the circle of innovation yet you failed to understand.

          • sara

            Dear selam i am sure you were in a hurry,you misread my comment. sorry!

      • ‘Gheteb

        Sara,
        Thanks. I could not stop laughing about Solomei 98/99

  • Hayat Adem

    Dear awate.com, hosts, moderators, editors:
    I am Hayat Adem and this is to appeal to you as an institution for a redress on an act of infraction of trust committed by Mr. Saleh Younis, (saa7, moderator, a prominent member/editor/moderator/host/co-owner of this website, inhis capacity as a moderator. In his most recent posting in the comment section for the article “Eritrean Lowlander League: an Introduction” under Gheteb’s thread, saa7 wrote the following:
    “One of them, a hard-core TPLFite who pretends to be Eritrean, actually said, well, “writing using your real name and writing using a pen name [a complete fabrication that is neither Eritrean, nor female, nor Muslim]is just a personal choice on whether you want publicity or not.” Ha!!!”
    Obviously he was referring to me, Hayat Adem, because the line he quoted- “writing using your real name and writing using a pen name is just a personal choice on whether you want publicity or not.”- was mine.
    In this same posting, he assertively alleged that my name is a complete fabrication that is “neither Eritrean, nor female, nor Muslim”
    In this same allegation, he said I’m (Hayat Adem) a hard-core TPLFite who pretends to be Eritrean.
    If saa7, Awate Moderator, has those doubts or facts about my falsified identity, he could have invoked Awate posting guideline 25-3 and given me a warning or put on me a complete ban and settled the issue of his doubts. It is obvious he said what he said after all this time because he was angry at one or some of my over 700 comments posted so far. There have been a lot of allegations of similar nature thrown at me all the time from other Awatistas and they never bothered me to this level. People have different perceptions for a lot of different reasons.
    But Saa7 is not an ordinary Awatista. He is a host/moderator. In that capacity, it is obvious whatever he says about my identity will cloud the judgments of other Awatistas and may lead them to believe that he knows things about my identity that they don’t. That will place an effective impediment in my future interactive messaging with them. It is so sad and
    unfortunate saa7 had to fall for such distractions while playing the role of a host because of personal irritations. I kindly appeal to Awate, the website or saa7, moderator, to retract that damaging and hindering and unsubstantiated allegation
    saa7 posted in relation to my identity. My appeal comes to you with a confidence that you will do the right thing to correct the breach committed.
    Awate.com is my only website I participate in comment posting. It is my strong belief Awate.com is one of the best intellectual discoursing infrastructures that ever happened to the Horn of Africa. This is hardly an overstatement. Once this region is transformed to normalcy, it is my believe awate.com will be an irresistible gravity for so many good things. The presence of Eritreans and Ethiopians interacting in such a compassionate way shows the early taste of a future place of feast of ideas. For that, I am grateful to the founders and managers of the website, and of course that includes saa7 as a member of the team. I want you to continue to grow up and grow wide while deepening more your roots.

    Cordially,
    Hayat Adem

    • Nitricc

      Dedebit reading your waste of time posting many thing comes to mind. If it is not true what SAAY said; why bother and waste your time and energy?
      I get it, you can’t take rejection. It is killing you, isn’t it? all SAAY saying is I moved on you are not worth my time. How hard is it to understand?
      From what you write day in day out; if some one to say to you, hard core TPLfiest; are you finding it wrong and offensive? Go read what you write.
      If anyone believes that you are Eritrean Muslim woman; then they got to be the masters of Eshi-goytay; Aman-H and dumb Semere. You are not fooling anyone.
      I have asked you where in Eritrea you belonged and you never answer me; while I told you mine. Do you know why; because you are not from Eritrea but a paid TPLF agent from Adi-Grat. You never fooled me; once you told us you were kicking with Kiros; I knew who you are.
      Now, don’t worry; it is an open forum any one is entitled to their opinion including SAAY. Be thankful all the TPLFiest and esho-goytay are on your corner.
      The worst part is you shouldn’t have posted this one. You made it your fakeness to be noticed and conformed.

      • Semere Andom

        Hi Nitricc
        I also doubt that you are not an Eritrean, that would not matter for the purposes of a debate, but since you are accusing Eritreans of treason and of hailing from Adi-grat, some former freedom fighter, some former national service youth with your filthy but limited diction, I am also interested to know where in Eritrea you hail from what region of Eritrea do both your father’s and mothers side belong? Can you list your geology to the 10?

        • Amanuel Hidrat

          Semere,
          Actually, Nitricc at this point, he is unfortunately misguided by his mentor. He is oriented to do it by Saay the moderator. No question about that, and he will continue to do it unabatedly.

      • Asmerom

        Nitricc
        ” ye areza neger medakemi” elen adi Mulu Nitric nataka neger medakeme eyu

      • Mizan

        The great Ermias had dug all your dirt and put it on the table too but not too many believed him. He knew all along you are not Eritrean either. But in the grand scheme of things, what is it to be Eritrean or Ethiopian? Can we say one is better than the other? Would you rather be Gambian or Senegalese or Canadian or American or Austrian or German? It is all a matter of context and where your nationality is doesn’t matter too much. It is what is in your head. If Hayat is from Dedebit, I will be the first person to grant her full Eritrean citizenship. In fact, I would beg her to be Eritrean. She seems to care much much more about the PEOPLE of Eritrea while you and your likes care not about the people but about the LAND of Eritrea. There is a big difference.

        • Amanuel Hidrat

          Spot on Mizan. It is shame to those who made him to be so in their image, the way how they see the world, that an Eritrean is better than any human genesis.

          • Nitricc

            Aman, Aman, Aman…
            Aman Leave the great SAAY alone; I am proud to call him my mentor; here you have it. At least I am swayed by great SAAY’s for greatness, unflinching character and love of his country. May I ask why you are swayed by the TPLF thugs that you are here defending them day in day out? Huh, Air ticket? Is that it?
            According to Araya the Weyane paid for your vacation and air ticket to Ethiopia and ever since you become their mouth piece. Araya accused you on that several times and you never denied it. so, it is true. yet, you are pointing fingers at me for admiring SAAY’s unflinching love of his country and people like something wrong. What is wrong is what you did and the reason swayed you to ward sleeping with Eritrean enemny.
            Aman before you point on to someone character; check yours. Do you remember when you mourn for months when your midget dictator died and with no shame you call PIA a dictator? I am just mentioning a few so you can see your downfalls. Aman, at least you are smart, you got something to support the filthy weyane; I am at lost at the dumb friend of yours, he got nothing. I will not rest till all “Esh-Goytay” are dealt with and trust me; I am on.

          • Semere Andom

            Nitricc: “I will not rst till all “Eshi-Goytay” are dealt woth and trust me,I am on”
            Oh, really Nitricc? You are nothing, just like your girl friends and maybe who know your boyfriends at YPFDJ you are nothing, you are from the Ghetto and you shall return to the Ghetto fro you the junkie, trust me on that!

          • Nitricc

            Semere no offenses but you are too dumb for my test. I urge you to look in to the mirror and ask what principal means. What self-worth means? What pride and dignity means? And finally to believe and to stand for something and prepare to pay what ever the cost is to defend it! At least get a vacation or something but you are to dumb to be that claver.
            When you told me I am not Eritrean the other day, I gave you a reference point why a white American will join the ISIS? You never answer it but I was trying to help you think. Again you have nothing between the eras. As far me, I can be what ever I want; I can be the president of the USA if I chose too. Just you know.
            Semere no offenses but you are too dumb for my test. I urge you to look in to the mirror and ask what principal means. What self-worth means? What pride and dignity means? And finally to believe and to stand for something and prepare to pay what ever the cost is to defend it! At least get a vacation or something but you are to dumb to be that claver.
            When you told me I am not Eritrean the other day, I gave you a reference point why a white American will join the ISIS? You never answer it but I was trying to help you think. Again you have nothing between the eras. As far me, I can be what ever I want; I can be the president of the USA if I chose too. Just you know.
            I rather be ghetto than dumb and stupid, worst “Eshi-goytay”

          • Semere Andom

            Listen Nitricc: Stop pontificating, just remember you are nothing, you are a feather. You are known for insulting people and you expect people to give you the other chick, it cannot and will not happen in this world. You are the pathfinder for the insults here, it is not your stand (PFDJ support), but your vulgarity, your lack of respect, your stupidity, your arrogance, your derision, your hypocrisy, your cruelty, you lack of compassion and your idiocy and you were banned for some of that.
            My worst mistake here was for engaging you and opening the channel of communication and I am sure all those who are insulted by you feel the same.

            Yes, I have looked in the mirror that is why I say what I say about you and our tyrant. Yes I took vacation, but cannot take them every six months. Most likely in your teenage time you were experimenting with

            Marijuana, but in my teenage I was debating Eritrean issues and studying its history. Maybe in your teen age you were hanging out with dealers I was hanging out with freedom fighters, former and incumbent and learned from them. Maybe in your teenage years you were been told about your culture and where you came from and you hated it and that bottled hate is un leashed on justice seekers like me, Hayat, Emma, Serray,Yodiata, papilon, Haile TG and Tess, and Dr. Sara and many many, others. and even moderators. In my teenage, I innately knew where came from, from the household and was steeped in its history and roots that is why I say what I say here.

            I never read you ISIS reference, if I had I will respond, any challenge from you can be answered with just one of my brain cells

          • Nitricc

            Hold on Aman!
            Semere obviously you have no clue the magnitude of your senseless and stupid comments. No sane person; no person with a few of gray matters will call for a foreign army to invade his country. I will explain on that one but before I go forward; who paid for your vacation? It is important. You see I don’t assume; I ask. I will get to the rest of the points.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Ouch! Saay loves his country, Amanuel doesn’t was the topic of the lesson of today. That is what he told you? Yegermal, this is a typical the irony of the irony, indicating the detachment of the reality.

          • Nitricc

            Hahahah Aman any one who doesn’t accept a trip go to the school of Eshi-Goytay” is the one who loves hic country and a person of principal and character. Let’s get to it Aman when was the last time you voiced anything negative to your handlers (TPLF) in defense of Eritrea? oh shoot, you are going to tell me to “read what you have written in the past”
            That has been your answer for every question we have asked you.
            Q- Aman; what your stand with YG?
            A- “read what you have written in the past”
            Q- Aman what is your position on the border?
            A- “read what you have written in the past”
            Q- Aman you are against reforming PFDJ but can you tell us the alternatives?
            A- “read what you have written in the past”
            Q- Aman you are in love with the Tigyan Dictator but you are aginst dictator. Can you …
            A- “read what you have written in the past”
            Q- anything we asked you; you have been hiding behind the famous word of your
            “read what you have written in the past”
            That is your story. what else Aman? If you love your country then stick with your people and country not with their enemies who indulge you. Where is Principal and character? It is okay you stand with your TPLF thugs and I will stand with my people and country. no hard feelings. you have the right to stand with what ever; just leave my country alone; don’t hurt her by teaming up with her enemies.
            Oh one more time SAAY is my mentor and Mahmuday is my mentor and my hero. So, there will be no doubt. Anymore question, Aman? I am on, ask.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            So I will reverse your question back to you, and don’t forget Saay to help you.

            (a) what is my stand on YG? because you have read my writing in the past.
            (b) What is my position on the border? Because you have read my writing in the past.
            (c) You have read my alternatives in the past, can you tell us please?
            (d) There is one truth here, and that is, I am against dictator issayas Afeworki, but I am envy on the brightness, ingenuity, and wisdom of PM Meles zenawi.

            *** Keep in mind ask your mentor, any of my respond will direct to him not to you, as he is your mentor.

          • Asmerom

            Dear Emma
            You are lowering yourself by going back and force with good for nothing, he is an empty vessel who just makes a loud noise. I have been saying again and again he is not at your level he is just barking to make happy his mentors he has no clue what he is talking about and he doesn’t know that he is being used . He doesn’t know that his mentors and him are the “Eshi-Goytia ” that couldn’t challenge their master dictator who they made him what he is now they just follow him blindly. They talk about reforming a corrupted regime they can’t even reform themselves what a shame. Again please don’t waste your time and energy with this typical PFDJ, as rigid as they are they will not accept and entertain other views that’s not their nature. Remember yesterday’s cheer leaders todays reformist

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Merhaba Asmerom,

            I will stop it now. This forum is not worth venturing for engagement and solution seeking. It becomes “nay Guassot” talking. In the mean time, I like this line of yours: “Remember yesterday’s cheer leaders are today’s reformist.”

            regards,

          • tes

            Dear Amanuel Hidrat,

            I understand to whom the message specifically is but it can be good if you just direct to the targets. I can say, I read for the first time, the weakest line from your comments. If you go with selam and Nitricc, you will get disappointed. As Asmerom said, don’t try to engage with everybody focus on your focal point not to distactors.

            selam and Nitricc are good for people like me as we know each other what languages we use, just an advice from your brother.

            regards
            tes

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Merhaba Asmerom,

            I will stop it now. This forum is not worth venturing for engagement and solution seeking. It becomes “nay Guassot” talking. In the mean time, I like this line of yours: “Remember yesterday’s cheer leaders are today’s reformist.”

            regards,

          • Peace!

            Hi Emma,

            Really “Nay Guassot” koinuka? I rather say you didn’t mean it rather than dignifying you with response. Goodness!!

            Regards

    • selam

      Ok lets assume you are not , so what does it matter ?

      The only thing you should do is stay away from deflecting our history , because until now you continue to do so. The only reason i belive you are from weyane payed workers is that you continue to deflect our history and paint every thing about weyane as Angels. At least you should admit the wrong doing of weyane. As far as you are defending weyane and their evil propaganda machine . I mean you should push for the only reason you are here.

      I truly believe you should go to tigraionline.com and comment there because that is the exact place you should be

      • Hayat Adem

        Selam and Nitricc,
        I’m waiting a response from the website. Be patient. And when I get back to you, you will hate yourself for saying what you are saying and run away like crazy. Just stay shooting aimlessly and we’ll if you can stand your ground.

        • selam

          I am not saying you should not wait and go. What i am saying is the truth.
          You are Ethiopian and you should not run away .Just defend your view and twisting Eritrean people’s history. I actually change my ground when i am against the truth. I never go out there my view is the one. You hayat have the courage to tell people what is nice about Weyane and their evil ideas , You want to degrade eritreans where ever they tend to hold their identity.

          • Hayat Adem

            Freeze there! Hold your stuff organized and in order. Then you will tell me whether to go or stay, whether to be Eritrean or Ethiopian. Stay put. Apparently you are inviting to much heat more than you can handle. You are too fragile, too floating for a tough talk.

          • selam

            I am not doing any harm to you i am just telling things you do consistently with out any error

          • ‘Gheteb

            You are right, Selam. You are just expressing how your views. Here Hayat Adem using words like “FREEZE” and “TOUGH TALK”. I am getting sick to my stomach with the use of such THUGGISH words by the person Hayat Adem.

          • selam

            It is nice and healthy for us eritreans to disagree on our political understanding. What i do not accept is for weyenti to come in between and try to use our disagreement that is really not nice but we should expect from weyane , You know our great great fathers studied weyenti long time ago , you know what i mean is the road from asmera to few kilometers from atekelezan

          • ‘Gheteb

            Freeze??? Tough talk??? There you go, even when you raising serious issues about your identity. This what is what I was talking about to you before!

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Gheteb,

            Aren’t you in the same position with Hayat using pen name. How do we know your identity? who are you after all talking behind nickname about Eritrea? You could be an Ethiopian or from any origin for that matter, you could be male or female? If you have the courage come clean to the open with your identity? I am doing this not that I care who you are, but when you ask about identity of others, you have to know also others will ask about your identity. Know what you are asking, because the question will simply revert to you.

        • ‘Gheteb

          What if Awate.com ignores you and opts not to respond to you. You know they are not obligated to respond to anyone from this forum should they choose so. Why do the readership of this Forum has to wait for a “response from the website”. What is this, anyway? a political fight against this website or SAAY? Using a pen name comes with a lot of risk. You could be misidentified as your readership (including SAAY as a moderator) make their judgment based on your writings and the stand you take. Here is what I have told you before and still believe:
          1) I don’t know which part you hail from ( Ethiopia or Eritrea)
          2) I don’t know your gender ( you can be male or female)
          3) I don’t know how many person(s) the pen name Hayat Adem represent(s)
          4) I am convinced you are an ardent follower of Abessinian fundamentalism
          5) You are a die-hard TPLF supporter who have “out-Selomed” Selome Tadesse in all the posts I read.
          for 1), 2) and 3) you were not forthcoming and DID NOT provide me with an honest answer and I have to connect the dots and reach my own conclusion, however subjective that may be.
          So, here is my stand and I will be here to remind you them come rain or sunshine. And, I won’t run away.

          • ‘Gheteb

            Let me add this to keep in your folder,
            You are NOT an honest , humble and straight forward person. I believe that you will be more comfortable at Aigaforum and other websites even if you happen to hail from Eritrea. You have ZERO credibility in this Forum.

          • Hayat Adem

            The jury is out. You can say that. Saying it doesn’t make you right. Selam told me to go to Tigrayonline. You are telling me to aigaforum, What if I choose to stay and keep shattering you false claims, your lies, your pfdj feathery deceptions? Why would I be advised where to go by persons of your like? Is awate for people like and selam and nitricc? Let me hear it from the hosts and I’ll weigh my options.

          • ‘Gheteb

            I have my opinions and views too regarding anyone here. If your views are inconsistent with the mission of this website, I suggested where you will be comfortable. Please, avoid using words like “shattered’, “freeze”, “tough talk”, and now you have used words like “punching below the groins”. GROINS?????? GROINS???? Can some one help here! Can someone say something?????

          • Mizan

            Gheteb, I know you know this but just wanted to remind you that ‘punching below the groins’ is an American axiom meaning someone is using dirty tactics.

            Frankly, I agree with Hayat about 50% of the time and perhaps 25% of the time with you but I am not so sure why Hayat escalated this to such a level. When I first read your post, I asked you if you were related with SAAY claiming that you write so well. You said, ‘you are not SAAY.’ That was not necessarily my question and I did suspect from the get-go that SAAY and Gheteb are very closely related but I left the issue right there as soon as you said you are not him.

            Needless to say, please help me here (this to Nitricc as you):

            1. Has Hayat in anyway indicated that she is doing whatever she is doing putting the Eritrean people at risk? In other words, does she show any form of disrespect, neglect, and unjust to the Eritrean people? Remember the Eritrean people is not equal to PFDJ or EPLF or IA.

            2. I noted and I have accused Hayat of relentlessly defending the TPLF. But as she said time and again, she does that because she is envious of the progress they made in their country. TPLF post 1991 is by far more superior, adept, sophisticated, able, and much more tolerant and democratic than EPLF/PFDJ. I am not saying in absolute terms but relatively speaking. Agree or disagree?

            3. If Hayat is Ethiopian, how would you compare her with Sophia Tesfamariam as an example? Who would you want to have on your side?

            4. Who is the number one enemy of the Eritrean people at the present time: TPLF or PFDJ?

            5. Did TPLF cause PFDJ to behave the way they do now or they were just as such inherently? If there was any goodness to EPLF/PFDJ, how come it has not surfaced yet in 24 years time?

          • ‘Gheteb

            Listen, Mizan, I am kind of short in time. But I will only say this: raising some issues here, this person Hayat Adem is using vile and violent words. I was the primary victim and I am making sure that it is noticed and the negative impressions it is creating. Seriously, this should not be even raised here. SAAY is a REAL name and Hayat Adem is a pen name. One hiding behind a pen name has relentlessly attacked SAAY. Hayat Adem will find it more comfortable at other Ethiopian websites. That is my take. I hope to talk to you soon!

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam Gheteb,
            .
            Why don’t you Mr./Mrs Gheteb give it a rest for a little while. I am not sure why Hayat Adem responds to you. You do have a good command of the English language, that is it.
            .
            I am still sad that Haile T.G is absent from the Awate University for a while now. When I first noticed your posts, I was hoping against hope that you might be a good replacement for that loss, now I am not that sure. That is too bad for the University.
            .
            K.H

          • Hayat Adem

            Gheteb,
            1) My hope is they will respond.
            2) What happens if they don’t? Nothing. We’ll note and move on.
            3) My complaint is about punching low and about punching at the groins. Wrong is wrong.
            4) Your questions 1.2. and 3,- I will answer them if and when I want to. You can connect dots if and when you want to. You, Gheteb is playing fair and by the rule. That is fair enough for me.
            5) Am I die-hard TPLF supporter? Comparing them to PFDJ, I have too much respect for what they have done in lifting Ethiopia lifting their people out of poverty. The dearest mission in our region must have been chasing poverty. Not today, yesterdayThe cooperation I dream to see between Ethiopia and Eritrea is not for political end but in light of creating a favorable economic dynamics in the region. I also admire their unflinching support for Eritrea and Eritreans. If die-hard supporter means more than that, it is wrong. I never supported them in any other way. Never contributed money. Never met any official. Never attended any meeting or gathering. Never wrote an article in support of them. But I’ve a lot of hopes good things can be planned with them for the future.

          • selam

            You have some thing which is very serious problem on dumping. What you miss to know is , we Eritreans knew weyane better than you. You said they love the Eritrean people , yet you forget :

            A. they tried to damage our infrastructure deep inside eritrea to creat a great havoc in our economy and kill the hope of the Eritrean people.
            B: You forget they send 77,000 Eritreans with out any legal merit, or any evidence of wrong doing and take their wealth and give to weyane or dergi people.

            C, You forget they are on our land against all international law.

            You forget how they are dismantling oromo people, and so many evil things.But you do not want to say it. what is the reason keeping you on the wrong side of history

          • tes

            Dear Gheteb,

            I believe that they have an obligation to respond. She is bringing a posting guidline article 25-3 and she is claiming that her rights was violated. How they will respond and defend article 25-3, depends on the admins but she has a right to bring her case if she feels that she is mistreated. This is what a democratic institution does and so do I believe awate.com is.

            Mind you though here, I am not saying she is right or not but she feels that she is mistreated and has a right to bring her case and awate team has an obligation to respond. No matter what political inclination she has.

            I call awate.com admins to respond as it is a mandatory whereever one feels mistreated. Therefore, lets not politicize rights of one person and we can not blackmail it because of political inclination. Even if anti-Eritrean but is posting here using the chance he got through the posting guidelines, awate team remains responsible. If Hayat Adem is anti-Eritrean and awate.com guidelines does not allow that she could have been banned from the very beginning and the website could have remained clean from such commenters. But I believe Hayat Adem is a responsible Eritrean but with different political beliefs and we have only one option, to challenge her if we believe that her ideas are not good.

            tes

          • Nitricc

            Tes stick to studding your dictionary and tell us what it says about the rights of nick names. I know you are unstable person but how do you violate a right of faceless, nameless and nation-less? I tell you though, you are to bright if not you could have find one positive Article about Eritrea from the 700 articles she posted kissing the Weyanes. Don’t you think an Eritrean would have written one article positive about Eritrea out of 700 negative articles about Eritrea. if she send them her identity, gender and nationality then AT may or may not respond. However; as bright as you think you are; to use this forum is a privilege not a RIGHT I.E AT are not obligated to say word.

          • tes

            I believe awate.com is not PFDJ and the admins have a right to respond for her accusation. If she is wrong, they must show her that she is wrong and if she is right, it is at least good to apologize for the respect of the forumers. This is what we saw and what we see. saay7 is not almighty and is a responsible person for what he does and so are we.

            Confused Chauvinist. You better know how I can dump you by showing your ignorance. I did that for selam, you read it. dumpest and fearless confused chauvinist. Know what rule of law is. Awate.com has a law and to be abided by this law is a must.

          • selam

            I hope awate.com should do the right thing and that is to remain silent because saay has the right to comment as a private person . he is not commenting to represent awate.com . awate.com should not go out of their way to tell things about one person.

            You think she is Eritrean with different political beliefs ,and ask people to challenge her.
            she said one Eritritrean trader or what so ever is took 50birr from ethiopian partner on the same story she accuse the Eritrean about business ethics . I try to challenge her idea you jump to give me any name in your book. I choose to stay silent even you and others try to misrepresent me and give me a name .

            And at one point mahumd saleh try to give position of my IPS which is totally wrong and illegal on that issue he crossed the line. If i was in Scandnavian countries i would have told him on day one .He asked his suppliers or his technical rooms about my location he was doing great mistake still i let him go.

            He failed to tell who is bully and who is bullied . He has the right to say as a private person , i do not feel he was representing awate.com

          • tes

            You hypocrite,

            Remember, Saay7 has three responsibilities. One as a regular awatista, second as moderator and third as co-owner of this web-site. This triple responsibility makes him different than you and me.

            You and me have one rule to follow and that is to respect posting guidelines. And just like your accusation against me and as frequent warning they were giving to both of us, Hayat is also claiming as she is mistreated by a person who has triple tasks. I am not expecting saay7, the ordinary commenter to respond.

            By the way, the PFDJista mindset live always to protect individuals. DIA as criminal as he is, he is still protected by people like you. selam, like you! And I will not worry if you project that attitude to protect saay7, which he is by all means different than DIA as an admin member, he is responsible to be abided by “rule of law”, which I belief so.

            If you and the confused graduate of school of chauvinist (Nitricc) are trying to keep saay7 sane, by which he is well capable to defend himself, unlike DIA and does not need your service except to respect rules, it is a curse to our fight for justice.

            You hypocrite, you know nothing about what law is and how rule of law is respected and implemented. awate.com is much bigger than saay7 or SGJ. Though they have established it and administer it, at this time, it is an Eritrean voice. It is a voice to the voiceless. It is a private but Eritreans and the international community considers it as a mouth of the oppressed people. Think from that dimension. Don’t let awate.com to your level and this is what Hayat Adem claimed for which I concur her.

            tes

          • selam

            Do you have any clue what is private and public . Private company is not obliged to respond to some one who is misusing the companies rules, what they can do is expose them.
            For example
            If one come from Tigray aand acted as if he is from Elabereid and try to hold the hard believe of weyane , any one should tell them ,Tigray is for weyane and Elabereid is for Eritrea. How about that tesfe.

            Now tell me one prove that i defended HGDEF or IA and if you can not find one , that is called misrepresenting.

            Tesfe if i ask you a question you jump on your best words HGDEF and Hypocrite.

          • tes

            you mean, a private property like that of PFDJ?

            Yes PFDJ has noobligation to respond any question coming to him. By the way, PFDJ has no law and to ask them is just exposing the ignorance of the accuser.

            You said, “…what they can do is expose them.” Well, at least finally you showed what they can do. Even to expose is responding and this is what I am demanding. If Hayat Adem is as you described her, let admins even expose her in that way. What I don’t support is to simply “quite”.

            Your ignorance is: you are not able to differentiate between JUSTICE and POLITICS. Hayat Adem might be politically wrong or even an agent of TPLF. If it is her political stand, lets challenge her. Let’s not use UNJUST mechanism to let her go. If that was the case, PFDJ could have shined by putting G-15 under prison. Hayat Adem is here with us and we respect her no matter how different political stand she has.

            If she is a TPLF agent and if you believe that she is against the Eritrean people, as per your accusation, which is typical PFDJ political propaganda, and awate.com has a posting guidelines against such, it is awate.com’s fault to keep Hayat Adem here in this forum for such long time. This is just a plain and literal interpretation of your wild ignorance about the “rule of law”.

            As for your question, I told you, I am not ready to respond any of your question but to destroy you and this is what I am doing right now. Therefore, don’t expect me to discuss on ideas or debate with you. Doing that I am betraying my principle of weeding-out PFDJ as I am quite sure that you are.

            tes

          • selam

            She can represent weyane in tigraionline better. But i would love if she stay here because i do feel she is important to suck people from eshi goytaye to her said and leave the honest opposition to have a better debate on how to dismantle IA. But when she twist our history she should be nailed to the last bottom of her wicked mind set.

            As per continues accusation here is my take.
            I really do hope IA get dissolved and see your arrogance in a democratic place. I suspect you have psychological problem. May be like anger problem , The best solution for your problem is to go to anger management.

    • Peace!

      Dear Hayat

      I don’t think your complaint is valid. It is good that you contributed over 700 comments, but unfortunately only few of them are consistent to what the opposition website stands for: Inspire, Embolden and Reconcile. Your effort to prove how TiGray and Eritrea(kebbessa) inextricably woven is not only divisive, but it also fatal distractive. Eritrea is an independent country, and good economic integration with her neighbors is a dream of all her citizens.

      • ‘Gheteb

        Not only what Hayat Adem is asking for not valid it is absolutely FRIVOLOUS and awate should not respond and ignore this person as there are other Ethiopian websites that will cater to this persons outdated political views otherwise known as Abessinian fundamentalism. What an effrontery of this person Hayat Adem to raise this nonsense about SAAY who is using his real name and pretty much everything about him is publicly available by a person using a pen name Hayat Adem. There are limits to everything, period and the end of the story!

    • Mahmud Saleh

      Dear Hayat
      Chill out please. This is the cheapest way of scoring cheap shots against saay. Awatistas are not that shallow minded people to give a damn second figuring out who is from Adigrat and who is from meQerka. We care about ideas. Even if that’s the case how do you prove it without going open, an idea that you downplayed in the same feed you have forwarded as an exhibit. SAAY is referring to those who spent more of their time and energy glorifying the Ethiopian regime more than fighting for justice. He is referring to those who pretend Eritreans while at the same time undermining Eritrean nationhood, who mock it’s history, and who belittle it’s sacrifice. He is referring to the actions of those who pretend more Eritreans while making excuses for the violations Ethiopia committed against Eritrean sovereignty, he is referring to those Who Call for Ethiopian invasion, for those who rationalize Ethiopian occupation of lands ruled Eritrean. It’s obvious that he is doing what all of us do, including you, making a point by quoting the target person. So, do as you often do: rebuff his idea. But first win your battle with nitrickay; prove him wrong by acting Eritrean. Pounding Pfdj is not enough, separating pfdj and the state of Eritrea is where you fail miserably. And it’s not where you come from that makes you Eritrean, but for who you stand, where your heart lies is what makes you an Eritrean. Trashing PFDJ is just a part of the package. How you do it is very important. If under the pretext of trashing pfdj you trash Eritrea, it’s within the argument that you be reminded how exactly you are seen. Every comment you make has to do more to the demoralizing, denigrating. .
      and thereby, trying to crush Eritrean fierce will to build a nationhood. Most of the comments make Eritrean current predicament as a canvas where the great Gual Adem paints here wayanay version of Eritrea, an Eritrea that’s weaker and smaller than the one Eritreans aspire it to be.

      • Kokhob Selam

        Dear Mahmuday, please allow me
        I want just to say one thing, ” LA ZENB BA’EDE KUFUR” . I am just saying it is not correct at all to talk much regarding boarder issue at this very moment – that is not just going to be solved while PFDJ is on power. and even it will take time after removal of PFDJ. There is no justification to defend PFDJ including this boarder case. just for one reason, forget about their crimes (for me they are like Da’esh -ISIS) but the first case is that they are rules. they don’t have system. so case is closed ” LA ZENB BA’EDE KUFUR” . nothing can be important more than removing PFDJ. so make it clear and use all your energy on this. teach us, you have the ability to do so. be among the leading players…you have that capability .but knowledge in itself is not enough and we want wisdom.

        just to remind you Haile Fida was the most intelligent person I know ,but he was supporting Derg. He kill Ethiopians struggle by giving priority Eritrean Somalian case. He was thrown as the first problem was not Eritrean or Somalian case, Ethiopian problem for an Ethiopian man was the present of Fascist Derg. Haile Fidda thought he will attract the emotional side of Ethiopia which use to seem majority by shouting slogans . at last he (Haile Fida) lost all before Derg was gone. Truth is powerful it is just a matter of time to see the strength.

        today PFDJ is experiencing new movements of people in Eritrea, the uprising has started small, the reaction of PFDJ was killing people. PFDJ may dream the will continue using force and that boarder issue but people are not going to wait PFDJ solve anything.

        • Mahmud Saleh

          Salam KS

          Shall I say show me? You’re not going to do it because you haven’t done previous challenges, but if you could, just show me where I defended PFDJ. This is a libelous statement KS. Please make your future replies in relation to the comments you’re replying to. I value your exchanges, please keep it. With regard to the incorrect statements:

          – Have I talked about how the border should be resolved in the comment you are replying to? A big NO. I have recently discussed this with Teweldino, and I gave him my take as to what I think will happen. BTW, I never supported Eritrean regime rationale for igniting the war, I don’t accept its rationale for holding democratization process hostage to the border issue; probably, this is my last time to talk about this issue with you, because it’s a waste of time.

          – In your rationale, it’s OK for you stating publicly that it’s fine for Ethiopia to occupy Eritrean ruled areas while it makes me PFDJ saying that it’s wrong! I have repeatedly said the border issue could not be used for excuses of promoting PFDJ dictatorial rule, please go to my disqus. I said it takes two willing governments in order to solve the issue in a way it doesn’t violate EEBC ruling which both governments accepted; way different from and ahead of many anti-PFDJ, but proud Eritreans who believe Ethiopia should leave occupied areas unconditionally, because that’s the only way I see it done in a way that ensures future trustworthy neighborliness between the two peoples (which is more important to me than a meter here and another one over there) short of another blood bath or a prolonged “No peace no war” which has become the life support of the regime.

          – Since I joined this forum I complained that the Ethiopian based opposition has depended more on Ethiopia than it’s done on on its people; I advocated for a united front, strong enough to tilt the scale towards justice seekers by showing Eritreans the opposition is disciplined, strong, and more just than PFDJ, able to govern independent Eritrea better than PFDJ.

          – I stated that it seemed to me change will come from within; that diaspora activism should be an engine that enhances domestic resistance for justice. Unfortunately, this line is taken as advocating for reformation of PFDJ, instead, it’s advocated by some that Ethiopian invasion in Eritrean “opposition uniform” is the easiest one; they tell us Ethiopia will turn into angel once it reaches Asmara, and that it will somehow become more judicious by settling the border in a way and fashion it doesn’t make Eritrea smaller; and that it will install a political clientele which doesn’t make Eritrea weaker and more dependent. This confuses Eritreans who have the will to fight PFDJ. That’s why I complained, these types of strategy has cost the opposition; it’s become a drag force on its momentum.

          – I said this time and again and I am sure you remember it: when the opposition is judged by few vocal activists whose interest could not be differentiated from the interest of foreign forces, when the opposition is recognized by these few vocal activists, it’s only natural that it will be perceived as aligning with what Eritreans consider enemy. In that case, there is no much it can achieve except splintering and regrouping. In order for it to be perceived as an organ representing Eritrea, its interest as evidenced by its action plans, PRs, and deeds should align more with the bulk of Eritreans than with the Ethiopian regime. Here I am talking about those organization which could not stand on their own, without the lifeline Ethiopia gives them.

          – I also told you that PFDJ hurt me, just as it hurt you, by derailing the journey many died in and dispersing the ideals many struggled for, by shattering the will, energy and passion Eritreans had for creating a perfect union. I do hold stronger grudges against PFDJ, and you know why. I could regurgitate many related points, but that should be enough. I am going at length to help you understand that baseless accusations are easy to make, but hard to prove.

          I have no Idea why you said this: “LA ZENB BA’EDE KUFUR” Let me tell you, we are all sinners, but what is needed is to accept your sin and repent. The prove or evidence to that is here: قُل لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ إِن يَنتَهُواْ يُغَفَرْ لَهُم مَّا قَدْ سَلَفَ‏ } ‏[‏الأنفال 38‏.
          I don’t get Haile Fida issue, and I don’t really care about it. But you would be right if you could defend Hayat directly. For your information: I have defended her in the past; and I will defend her when I feel she needs defense. I dismissed her complain for this simple reason: I know her as an awatista. What personal information do you give away when you sign in to the forum? How could say know who she is based on her limited information, and in in case is penname. The only valuable information he could get is her email. And that doesn’t tell who she is; her ipn doesn’t tell who she is; even her location won’t say about her national origin. Nothing that they ask tells someone’s national origin. And you know the guys care less about someone national origin. So why would she blow it out of proportion. Awate response was appropriate; they reassured her that they would guard any personal information they possess.

          • Kokhob Selam

            Dear Mahmuday, it is not about challenge. yet, I am proud for that. You may not have experienced just this type of challenger so far, Deep inside you and me know and all those strong once know how much correct I am. I need you and you need me so do we need all. Each one has his way and we need to understand each other. I brought Dr. Haile Fida for one reason, the experience I went through as the child of Horn back those day.. He could have played a great role by standing perfect which was clear to him. unfortunately he was trapped in temporary fame. he decided to flow the arrogant leader. although I was young at early edge with less education and experience I was sure of his end. I feel your stand is not clear and you are to please the useless group called PFDJ. I love you balanced comments but sometime I see you are taking side to the rules group.

            I believe your are from legal parents as I am and I think you love legal system so why not clearly reject and go against every PFDJ? What is unclear today to support or even be kind of single human being in that group?

            Hayata’s stand is clear as Crystal. she didn’t say anything against Eritrean national freedom. read all her comments. but you are supporting PFDJ supporters and you are not trying even to correcting them.

            you are committing crime when you said that I or any single person has said Ethiopia should capture Eritrea then the boarder issue will be solved. none but none has said so. everyone agrees that change starts within. but blaming others and saying this statement are opposite which most opportunists use. change starts within and you should start within you in rejecting the criminal group. Getting support from Ethiopian government to the limit needed is not accepting occupation of Badmme.. so don’t paralyze the job of those practical people who want to do something. If you have better way do it on the ground. for me, I don’t care from whom I will get support leave alone from my brothers Habesha as removing PFDJ is the first thing.

            Hayata ask clarification from awate and she has got the answer for it. forget about it, who cares from where she is? what I care is about her perfect stand but she can be from anywhere in the world. awate has full information of Kokhob Selam. I am sure they know everything about me and I am certain they know about you too. Leave alone awate even PFDJ knows who is who here don’t think we are hidden in this advanced world. But your way of playing the game is not really good and I might be the honest man who is telling you right here. I am sure you will find others coming one by one telling you the truth. please stand straight and say the truth and reject every PFDJ, we need PFDJ free Eritrea. don’t take it personal it is only a view, I am not interested if I won or not what I care is if the idea you have an I have are going to have common place. so don’t think of wining you will never won alone. you might be better than me on writing but the truth was clear to see and no one can challenge the truth. IA didn’t, Deru’e didn’t, petros didn’t so you also didn’t.

          • Mahmud Saleh

            KS

            I promise you this will be my last regarding this issue. Where in my original repy to Hayat or elsewhere I appeared to be defending PFDJ?

            You said, “There is no justification to defend PFDJ including this boarder case.” Where in my reply you read anything defending PFDJ? Please, KS, don’t jump from a topic to unrelated one. I trust your honesty. Just show me. That’s all. Forget about the rest.

          • Kokhob Selam

            subject closed.done. relax please you will always face this type of confusing challenges, when you are lovely. you will be tried and examined, I am proud of you but still you need to be more cooler,

            when I have question I am going to do it and you must answer it. ደፋር ዶ ? that is how the gold should be tested.

  • AMAN

    Thankyou AwateS
    First of all it is for this very reason that I and others were against politically organizing in a tribal or sub-national
    form because it creates disorganization and spiral deterioration into lower and lowest and ultimately individual
    forms of existance and lifestyle giving way to Grecian style of anarchic or chaotic form of democracy or governance.
    Then going to the origins of the name;
    Its origins and widespred came with the new Italian colonial system of nation building when
    a new middle class was forming from the recruitment of civil and military ( Askari ) servants
    and their new settlements in Asmara and environs and formation of new urbanizing middle
    or bureaucratic class. The origins of most of these recruits were from the Agame are province
    and surrounding provinces of Tigray. And once the new urban class is formed it started to
    distinguish itself from the un-urbanized countryside residents for its many new interests
    and started anyone un-urbanized “Agame” to denote or to mean you are from the KifleHager,
    Countryside or Balageru or Gethere.
    Originally the name was applied to any Tigrian resident outside of the capital Asmara. But once
    people started to getting urbanized and enlightened and tried to know its meaning…..they were
    like…….Hell No !…….I am not Agame ! or from that are/Agame !………. Do not call me that……!
    distancing themselves from the stare of the Italians who found it good word and nice for their
    distinguishing purposes and the new middle class also used same way or meaning of it after
    the Italians. So when the other nearby Eritrean peoples rejected it as their name because of
    its derogatory use it came narrowing and narrowing confined to the original area called Agame
    as people get more urbanized and litterate and aware of colonial courts and their ways.
    And most of the Tigrian areas under Eritrea distanced from it by the mid of the century and only
    using it to the south of the Mereb because those areas were outside the Italian system of
    jurisdiction and court system. But the first ones who used it are the urbanised Agame people
    against their own who lived outside the urban areas of Asmara and Dekemhare urban cities
    to distinguish the new interests of the new middle class of Italian colonial system of Administartion.
    The word was originally applied to all outside Asmara and especially seraye and southern regions
    and others due to their strong links in religion,ethnic and language with the rest of Tigray than
    with Italian Asmara and was still in usage untill the end of Badme war when it came to be abandaned
    by sudenly and quickly.

  • Mizan

    Wow, for once you told the truth.

    • selam

      Thanks you find one , how about this ?
      Prime Minister Meles Zenawi has attempted to justify the Ethiopian government’s expulsion of these “foreign” nationals. In an interview with Radio Ethiopia on July 9, 1998, Prime Minister Meles claimed:

      “As long as any foreign national, whether Eritrean or Japanese etc . . . lives in Ethiopia [it is] because of the goodwill of the Ethiopian government. If we say ‘Go, because we do not like the colour of your eyes,’ they have to leave

  • T..T.

    We all know that any award of the international
    court of arbitration can easily prompt extensive legal and non-legal
    controversy. Therefore, the involved
    parties should avoid any possible controversy by not inflicting the peace
    process with mistrusts. Indeed, it is in the best interest of the defeated
    party not to stir up the arbitration award with reasons for unwanted delays
    in taking effect. However, it appears
    that Isayas and his blind supporters are intentionally antagonizing the Ethiopian
    government in order to extend the state of “no peace, no war” because it
    is in their favor and reinforces their strategy of destroying Eritrea and dismantling its people. As a result, the bus
    ride to destination (completing the process of peace) may get noisy and
    unfriendly thereby discouraging the winning party and compelling it to get off
    the bus.

    • selam

      Abay tigray , who can forget this ? unless some was looking to the guardian.

      • T. Kifle

        Apparently it seems you have no clue what “Abay Tigray” means

        • selam

          ok tell me from abay weldu book , do you oppose this map or what ? if you want like new sibhat nega dream map , i just lost the map

          • T. Kifle

            I have no clue about the map you are talking about but the concept of Abay Tigray is not a Tigrean thing. learn history and you would find it much closer to you than is to “Abay Woldu”.

          • selam

            You have clue about this map so you want to dump it because it shows how evil your boss is.
            This map is archived not in Eritrea it is with German company , have you forget your weyanay tigriai dream.

  • Mizan

    I have been trying to post but it keeps sayin “…being reviewed by awate…” I think a mention of the word Nitricc triggers a flag.

  • Amanuel Hidrat

    Selam Gonbel,

    Since your questions are sensible, I will try to clarify my position, and along the way to expose the “lies feeders’s” assumption. First I believe Ethiopia’s “five point plan” are not an alternative to Hague’s decision for the settlement of the border issue. Because Ethiopia’s acceptance to the verdict are on record; and I haven’t seen or heard a rejection to it (except early on, on April 2003 when the verdict was handed to both sides, which finally by the way, have accepted it with the pressure of international community). In my view the “five point plan” are not plans to nullify the decision of EEBC in themselves, but they are “suggestive plans” to enhance the implementation process during the “three-way-talk” (Eritrea, Ethiopia, and Enforcers) on the ground. So here is my position based on those assumptions: Don’t run away from the round table talk. If Ethiopia comes with her five-point plan for implementation, Eritrea should come with her own five point-plan or more to the table. Running away from the talk is not a solution. I have never talked or written on the merits of the Ethiopian five point plan. Diplomacy is not about words, it is about bringing solution through dialogue. Dialogue in themselves are not a substitute to the decision of the court. But they are the tools to enhance the court’s decision on the ground. Both countries can not stand hands tied when the “enforcers” are putting the markers on the border. They have a say in to it and hopefully for the interest of both people who will be affected by the demarcation process. So my clear position is: there is no alternative for talking and standing for your interest in the table. Running away from it will never be a solution. This position (mine) doesn’t in any way suggest defending Ethiopian position and nor do it suggest against the Eritrean interest. Politics is always politics as we know, and if you are not conformist to their view, they will paint any color. I hope you saw the difference between my position and the Ethiopian position.

    Your second question which says, “what is the base of your trust that there will be a good faith agreement next time “? is equally important. In a political-diplomacy, the process in itself is for building trust which helps you to resolve your differences. Usually conflicts between two people or two nations are sprouted from mistrusts. Mistrust leads to conspire each other, which ultimately drags you in to wars. The Ethio-Eritrean war is a product of “mistrust and conspiracy”. It can’t be any other reason. otherwise, early on the plan of both governments was for borderless-relationship. Hence there is no for sure things when you engage in politico-diplomacy. You will find what is there on the table, and try to make something out of it, with minimum outcome of “win-win” for both sides. The process in itself could be short or long depending how they build the trust between the opposite sides. Look, it is about eleven years since the verdict is handed. Nothing is done because they refuse to sit and talk each other. If they refuse to talk each other, it means they don’t want to resolve it. I don’t get it, when someone in this forum are against the talk, but want it at the same time the issue be resolved. In my opinion it is all lack of diplomacy.

  • ‘Gheteb

    The TPLF DID NOT Accept Eritrea’s Independence Out Of Conviction

    Le Monde Diplomatique, an international affairs monthly magazine, in its July 2000 edition, had the following to say about the war that was raging between Ethiopia and Eritrea:

    ” Eritrea is really facing its second independence war”

    What that conclusion is telling us explicitly is that Ethiopia’s military campaign against Eritrea was not about some contested territories, but it was about something bigger that will require Eritrea to conduct a bitter struggle to preserve its hard won independence. Yes, I believe that was precisely what the TPLF-led Ethiopian government has in mind which was to reverse Eritrea’s independence or dilute it’s sovereignty. Here are my reasons:

    A: TPLF acceptance of Eritrea’s independence was half-hearted and not based on principles

    1) March 1990: Meles’s interview with Paul Henze in which he tells Henze that an independent Eritrea is not in the interest of Ethiopia and particularly not in the interest of Tigray. Meles also expressed the potential of religious and ethnic conflict in independent Eritrea that could be very destablizing for the Horn of Africa.

    2) May 1991: Eritrea defeats decisively the Second Revolutionary Army and takes controls all of Eritrea creating a de facto government. In the London peace conference, where Mr.Cohen and Meles were presented with a fait accompli. Mr.Cohen position as he told Jim Lehrer of the PBS Newshour, on the eve of his departure to attend The London Conference, was that Eritrea’s question could only be solved within the Ethiopian framework. Both Meles and Cohen could not circumvent Eritrea’s march to independence because of the facts that the EPLF has created on the ground. Reluctantly, both accepted the EPLF’s Referndum proposal not out of conviction but because by the de facto Eritrean independence.

    3) Upon his return from the London Conference, Meles tells the press when asked what he thought about Eritrea’s independence, “we would like to maintain a unified Ethiopia” . Please note that is just what he told Paul Henze, but phrased a bit differntly.

    Now that Meles and co. have agreed on the referndum proposal, their plan was to find an arrangement that falls short of independence and keeps Eritrea under Ethiopia’s orbit. In order to achieve that, Meles and co. come with a plan which was:

    1) Abort peacefully Eritrea’s formal independence. How?

    By postponing the Referendum by two years. Eritrea coming out a thirty year war with devastated economy and no international help, the EPLF will find its hands full. As a result, with a bad economy the Eritrean people will suffer and won’t see much improvement in their life. Consequently, they would want to reunite with Ethiopia come referndum day. It was during those years that some Ethiopian were saying that if we showed the Eritrean people enough love, there is no reason that they will not opt to stay with Ethiopia.

    Well, with the referndum of April 1993, Eritreans overwhelmingly chose independence, the TPLF reluctantly accept the result of the referndum and recognize Eritrea’s independence.

    Here we see that the postpone the referndum by two years strategy not achieving its desired result. So what does the TPLF come up with? They want an Eritrean State with no independence.

    On the eve of Eritrea’s Independence celebration in May 1993, Isaias when asked by the press expressed his wishes to see a confederation between Eritrea and Ethiopia. When Meles was asked what he thought about the possiblty of confederation that Isaias has said, this what he told the German journalsit, Mr. Walter Michler: Our long term objective is not confederation but total re-unification. Here, Eritrea was not even one day old as an independent state when Meles spoke those words.

    Finally, the Eritreans Provisional government decided to issue its own currency, the Nacfa, ending the currency union between Eritrea and Ethiopia. This was the last straw that broke the camel’s back, so to speak, and finally pushed the TPLF to start their last option to reverse Eritrea’s independence which was the military option.

    In the summer of 1997 three important events occured.

    a) Ethiopian forces enter Eritrean territories and occupy Bada (Adi Murug).

    b) Nacfa issued as Eritrea’s currency

    c) The ‘Abay Tigray’ Map was distributed.

    Then, Ethiopia declares war on Eritrea with two strategies:

    1) Maximalist: Occupy Eritrea and re-annex it

    2)Minimalist: Occupy Assab

    We know what Dr.Tekeda Alemu, Vice Foreign Minster, said in July 1998 to his audience, in Washington, D.C? That they will hear good news soon that Ethiopia will have its port. We will take Assab within few days.

    In summary, ever since then Eritrea has been involved in a defensive war that aimed soley in preserving it’s hard won independence that La Monde Diplomatique of July 2000 has cogently concluded. Eritrea has conducted its second independence war in those years. This is because the TPLF half-heartedly accepted Eritrea’s independence. When they thought they were ready to reverse Eritrea’s hard won independence, they did precisely that based on a flimsy pretext. All the seven years prior to the inception of the war, the EPLF was pretty much clueless and were convinced that the TPLF has accepted Eritrea’s independence wholeheartedly. Alas, that was not to be the case. It seems that Isaias and co. forgot the nuggets of wisdom that one can derive from a Tigrayan saying that goes like: Nihamashen Bimahla Niderho Bimashela ( One can fool an Eritrean by swearing as one can entice and fool a hen (chicken) by offering some sorghum (cereal).

    • Nitricc

      Gheteb; don’t worry; let’s follow the “Eshi-Goytay” cowards master plan. Lets invite TPLF to topple PFDJ and that way we can get rid of PFDJ. Don’t worry Ethiopia will not dare to do anything the Africans and the UN will protect us. I am not kidding you read what dumb Dedebit had to say.
      What do you with suck kind of people? He has no pride, dignity or honor. Simply disgraceful.
      Read what he has to say…

      “the world will condemn and that Ethiopian will not dare. If a lunatic government comes to power in Ethiopia and they start occupying us, then Ethiopians , Africans and Eritreans and the UN will have a bigger problem”
      Semere Andom
      how stupid can one be to say this?

      • Semere Andom

        Let me help you on this based strictly on compassionate grounds.

        Ethiopia cannot occupy Eritrea and get away with it, it will however find ways to claim security issues and attack Eritrea or even declare war to weaken or change PFDJ. This is danger to both and especially to Eritrea after all the devastation of war. But there is more salient issue that is more subtle and dangerous that this outright occupation that seems to infect your little RAM and it is this: the perpetual brutally of PFDJ will drain the nation from its best and brightest and it will be left with the yes “wedi-“Afom” or “eshi wedu nwedi Afom people, the loser YPFD kind. The generation of Mahmud Saleh were idealistic, mine are borderline materialist and yours are totally narcissistic and if they see the grass is greener in Ethiopia they will go there and the Dedebit brain is smarter than you and they will know how to handle them by giving them iPad (as Gheteb says ekli), slowly, but surely integrating to the Ethiopian culture, they will settle there, they will send for their families and Eritrea will only be a geography. This is the danger foresighted people like the half Dedebit, who is in love with the Dedebit grad see. The sooner we remove PFDJ, the sooner we keep our affairs in order, the sooner we will be able to rekindle that idealist streak that inspired the generation of your mentor Mahmud to fight it against all odds. But this far sightedness is not your domain, but it is attainable if you choose it and I will volunteer to relive Mahmud in mentoring, but that will entail squeezing a visit to Dedebit while you are in Addis:-)

    • selam

      You always have the best. These who want military help from Ethiopia used to forget that they already have tried 3 times and they lost . The reason was simply the Eritrean people did not like any thing weyane does. I am 100% committed to have change in Eritrea to a democratic state , governed by a constitution, but i will never ever accept any thing from weyane. They are evil and they will always be evil when it comes to the Eritrean people.

      Imagine to finance a company with out any future benefit for the share holders .That is the wishful idea of these who are asking military help from weyane. I will never ever put my money for some one to have a power in other country with out good return for my money. tell me why will i do that ? because i am nice and want you to sit on throne , that kind of mentality is old and does not work.
      Eritreans are looking for change to Eritrean problem with Eritrean solution not from weyane.

    • Hayat Adem

      Gheteb,
      Now you are disappointing me. It should not be easy for you to disappoint me because I don’t place any expectation on you. You can stretch your wild imaginations about anything under the sun as far as advancing your opinion but do not trim and groom facts to fit your narrow world. You are becoming a cat-herding business to people who seriously tried to understand you, like myself. This last post of yours above is the weakest and the most absurd, so far.
      How do you know if a political organization’s position is in support or against of big projects such as the Eritrean independence? Certainly not from one report of a French newspaper. Not from opaquely interpreted and misquoted interview or the rest useless inferences you tried to make. This is about to organizations, two nations, two struggles of 40 whole years who made it through thick and thin. There have to be better ways of assessing TPL’s committment should there be a concern tot hat level.
      1) Declared official policies/ written documents: programs, policies, manifestos etc
      TPLF/EPRDF clearly spells out in its program, it is the only Ethiopian political organization to do that, Eritrean question is a colonial question and it has to be solved with granting and recnizing Eritrean independence. EPRDF has written a lot of books, magazines, documents, produced countless media products on this issue and all of them confirm to the recognition and support of Eritrean independence. EPRDF top officials must have given thousands of official interviews and statements about this issue, time and again. All of them consistently reflect their one and firm principled support of Eritrean independence. All of them and clearly and without exceptions, and without slips of tongues, accidental mistakes of statements. There are few things in the political world where positions enjoy consistent affirmation. The Eritrean independence is one issue that never failed to enjoy TPLF/EPRDF’s support all the way for the last 40 years. IF Eritreans complain a lot about lack of support from others on their cause for independence, they should be able to appreciate when they get it, too. And they have been getting it all the time from TPLF/EPRDF.
      2) You know it not only from a theoretical commitment but also from the actions and activities in the practical support. TPLF fighters fought and fell in Sahel in defense of EPLF trenches. This is symbolically and functionally the ultimate form of support that transcended the political and propaganda support. There are pretension in dying in the trenches of Sahel. Meles was in Asmara in 1991 telling us ትሃት EPLF and TPLF tegadelties died from the same shell fragment, “ብሓንቲ ንጣር መድፍዕ ዝወደቑ ብጾት ተጋደልቲ ህዝባዊ ግንባርን ህወሓትን ኣለውና”.
      Also, TPLF/EPRDF worked hard to indoctrinate its members and their constituency and later the Ethiopian public to accept the idea of Eritrean independence. This fact can never escape being understated because sometimes some Ethiopians who are independent thinkers and in the opposition were finding it hard to swallow if TPLF was a genuine nationalist front; whether TPLF/EPRDF’s first interest is Ethiopia or Eritrea, whether the party is independent or a subordinate working for Eritrean interests primarily. Political parties don’t usually risk their neck for the sake of principles and for the sake principles that concern a neighboring people. Such has the commitment of TPLF through and through. They are like an oak tree that you can count them to go through a fire in order to stay right. I’m not that sure they are that good in their domestic affairs. But as far as their loyalty and commitment towards the Eritrean independence, they are angles.
      3) The other measurement of commitment can be verified through assessing behavioral deviation during shocks and testing times. It is one thing to remain loyal and committed during good times. It another thing when testing times come. Here too we see TPLF/EPRDF passing with flying colors not most of the time, all the time. How did TPLF’s support endured as concerns to Eritrean independence when its relationships with EPLF soured and sometimes nose-dived south?
      as still as an oak tree. When EPLF necked the Tigray people from passing to Sudan to save their lives during the 19985 famine? The same as before. When they held government power in Addis? The same. When PFDJ attacked them unaware from the back in Badime and Sheraro? The same. When they defeated PFDJ and controlled a third of Eritrea? The same. When the Eritrean government is fattening the TPDM and G7& and al-Shebab to fight againt the EPRDF government and Eritreans flee back to Ethiopia in droves, the world has isolated PFDJ and put them in their deepest diplomatic depression, lower than the Danakhil depression. The same. There is nothing spotty in all the testing or tempting times.
      But, I’ll bring one event for my icing of the cake. There is one powerful documentary I watched about one TPLF fighter. His name is Amora. He came from the Tembien area. He was captured by the Derg in a war. And he was being interrogated by the Dergue guys. It is a known fact every tegadalai knew his fate when captured and Derg had no mercy on prisoners of war captured. Amora exactly knew what he was dealing with. They asked him about what he thought about the struggle for the separation of Eritrea that his organization supported. I was amazed to hear him saying it to their face. He told them it was a just fight for independence and freedom and that he saw nothing wrong in TPLF’s support it. I was animated by the oakness and braveness but the power of purity and effortless conviction was being told by a captivated brave-hearted fighter to his cruel handlers at a blink.
      This fourth point below is also as important as the others above and you don’t the see the complete picture unless you include it in the perspective package.
      4) Are TPLF/EPRDF doing this for the sake of Eritrea and pleasing Eritreans? The answer is NO. They see that is the price for Ethiopia’s peace, a necessary condition they want to it in their fight against poverty and backwardness. I’m sure this would be better explained by people like T. Kifle but EPRDF is impatient to defeat poverty after which they think it will be easier to solve all other Ethiopian macro domestic and geopolitical problems. Their support is also self-fulfilling. They were forced to fight the 1998 by endless insane IA’s provocations and they didn’t want stay in it. Reversed the aggression and got out of Eritrea to their unfinished business. Wise decision! You clearly see their idea of letting Eritrea and focusing in development is winning them support from people like Abnet, Eyob, Rahwa etc.
      ——————-
      Bonus:
      TPLF was half hearted, and they wanted to undo it, and they are working towards that day and night.
      G7, ESAT and EPPF are the guys to be reckoned with when it comes to Eritrean independence.
      Eritreans flee to Ethiopia in hundreds every day.
      Money flees to Europe.
      Hayat wishes Ethiopia military acted to help Eritreans take their country back form the PFDJ thugs so that they usher their fight against poverty like the Ethiopians.
      Finote asks for a balance sheet of every pron and con detailed account of such an intervention.
      Nitricc opposes it categorically on the ground of the fact that TPLF is an enemy and PFDJ is not.
      Abinet opposes it categorically on the ground of the fact no Ethiopian sacrifice should not be requested or expected to help Eritreans any more ,
      What a crazy world!!!

      • Ted

        Kudos Hayat, You said a nudge more from what Aboy Sibhat have said in his countless interviews. What about some thing from Gebru Asrat’s book for flavor.
        “Certainly not from one report of a French newspaper. Not from opaquely interpreted and misquoted interview or the rest useless inferences you tried to make.”When it suits you, you quote foreign intellectuals to draw a rosy picture of TPLF and when someone else does it , you out right discard it. Remember the quote, professor you admire said about TPLF.
        “But as far as their loyalty and commitment towards the Eritrean independence, they are angles.” Don’t you think you went overboard, Eritreans are not just skeptics, they are dead right on TPLF matter. You are like a man drowning in the mud, the more you fight it the quicker you sink.

        Bonus: All TPLF has to do is to publicly apologize for all ill things they did to Eritreans and Ethiopians for sacrificing hundred 1000s for their evil scheme. Time of reckoning is near, watch out Hayat.

      • Abinet

        Hayat
        It is a crazy world in deed. It gets craziest when it comes to our region. My objection is totally based on selfish motive. I worry more to the 90 million ethiopians before I worry about the eritreans they don’t like us. We have the worst enemy, poverty. Let’s fight that first. do not disturb ! Development in progress.

        • selam

          Ethiopia – a country with rich traditions and outstanding historical and cultural attractions.
          3000 years civilization resulting in empty granaries and overstocked ammunition depots and yet they are wasting their money by changing Ethiopian hard earned money to tanks and air planes . At least they have to finish this DAM in which i supported from the day one. And leave Eritrean oppositions to have more contact with their people. They must tell them that ,solve your problem on your own.

          These eshi goytaye are hurting our struggle in great margin.

    • Mizan

      Gheteb, wow, this could as well be coming from the office of Yemane Monkey.

      In any case, so is all this now in hindsight for you or you were ‘pretty much clueless’ as well like the EPLF? Otherwise, you could have have written most of what you have here prior to the events of 1997 and put EPLF on their toes and maybe we would have avoided the war altogether or we could have done better elsewhere too.

      You have put here one side of the equation. You forget to mention all the crimes committed by PFDJ in Ethiopia. Melles had two problems from the start of the Eritrean independence. 1) He had a majority of the Ethiopian people and particularly the amhara elites accusing him incessantly of losing Eritrea and the ports. 2) He also had IA and PFDJ who wanted to be babysitted and spoon fed. Particularly, the second problem was holding Melles hostage in so many aspects of his political life. Fortunately for Melles, IA ignites a war because he miscalculated how badly he was hated in Ethiopia even within the majority of the TPLF elites. That was an opportunity for Melles to wipe out IA and PFDJ once and for all. What you are claiming about Melles accepted Eritrea’s independence half-heatedly is not entirely accurate. When he said he wants complete re-unification eventually, he was thinking decades later after seeing how beneficial it would be for both peoples to re-unite and get out of poverty holding hands. There is nothing wrong with that and he didn’t allude to using force to reverse independence with all those interviews from 1991-1993. He thought a more progressive and democratic Eritrea would favor to integrate with Ethiopia at some point in the future. He was not expecting an entire population specially an entire elite of a whole country to become hard-headed and exclusionary and isolationists.

      I can see your fear is that Christian Ethiopia devouring Muslim Eritrea.

      Needless to say, our current predicament is 95% because of IA and PFDJ and maybe the other 5% because of TPLF if that much. If TPLF had not miscalculated themselves and stayed in the contested areas alone, a large majority of the Eritrean elites and hence the Eritrean people would have helped them bring their dream of eliminating EPLF/PFDJ/IA for good. These three elements are a cancer to the Eritrean people and to the whole Horn of Africa.

      • ‘Gheteb

        Selam Mizan,
        I will only touch briefly on two things:
        You queried if I was ‘as clueless as the rest of the EPLF’. Well, if I was going to tell you what my reactions and gut feelings (instincts) were in those days, even when the TPLF/EPLF relation was inchoate, then it will be like I am blowing (tooting) my own horn. I will never be able to do that and those who will attest to what I have argued even when I was a mere teenager in those years, I don’t think will come out publicly. However, I would leave you with this analogy to ponder on. Imagine a bus heading from Asmara to Keren. Some of the passengers of the bus slept, others were awake and noticed the straight road and some saw all the roads including the serpentine road locally known as Libi Tigray. So, chew on that for some time and I hope it will impart the kernel of my message.
        I would like to point out to you that the main thrust of my post was: The TPLF DID NOT accept Eritrea’s independence out of a principled conviction. Your rebuttal, if you don’t agree with points, should be to argue that the TPLF supported Eritrea’s independence wholeheartedly and the TPLF was for Eritrea’s independence lock, stock, and barrel.

        • T. Kifle

          For your information, in those days, anyone who wouldn’t believe in and accept the self-determination of Eritrea was not allowed to be TPLF’s tegadalay or non-combatant member of the fron. It’s a clearly stated article in its program. Your ignorance or I might add your arrogance is so telling.

          • ‘Gheteb

            But that “Self-determination” thingy you are talking about was according to TPLF’s interpretation. I mean who knew what they meant by it until their meaning became limpid and crystal clear by the TPLF actual action which was the invasion of Eritrea. There you have it what TPLF meant when it said it supported the Eritrean peoples Mesel Aarse Wisane ( or, in Tigrayan Tigrigna “the right to self-determination”. Since you have also mentioned recently about the possibility that your TPLF or whoever is pondering on rendering the Algiers Agreement “Null and Void”, the same thing happened after the Eritrean referendum when the overwhelming majority of Eritreans voted for independence. The Ethiopian elites also declared the Eritrean referendum results as “Null and Void”.
            I don’t know if you have read my recent post about “Abessinian fundamentalism” in which I posited that one of the distinguishing characteristics of those who subscribe to Abessinian fundamentalism is not only to interrogate the Eritrean question incessantly, but to re-litigate any prior agreement that Ethiopia has agreed or signed into. Their preternatural penchant to renegotiate the same agreement they agreed upon is manifestly and unambiguously obvious to any unbiased observer.

          • Hope

            Hasebka Gheteb!
            Please do NOT stop until you finish the Marathon.
            Now,I just have to sit back and listen to the United Front of Cousins:
            -SAAY
            -Vet Mahmoud
            -Ver Gheteb
            All the Best Cousins!

          • Ted

            Key word- Liberation—–TPLF (TIGRAY PEOPLE LIBERATION FRONT) and EPLF( ERITREAN PEOPLE LIBERATION FRONT)’……..What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

    • Ted

      TPLF had fought tooth and nails to occupy Assab. We lost a great deal of our heroes there. It is an open secret to all what the intention of TPLF was, except for a few who want to see PFDJ down at any cost even at the expense of our sovereignty. TPLF turns out to be a blessing in disguise for those who cherish their independence dearly(almost all Eritreans). We are able to see who is who now. The proof is is in the pudding, with all the suffering and dissatisfaction in the PFDJ rule, no Eritrean want to touch(the Awassa-TPLF combo) with 10 feet pole. If this didn’t wake them up from their self deception slumber, i don’t know what will.

      • ‘Gheteb

        Selam Ted,
        You are right when you said that “we lost a great deal of our heroes there [ Assab Front]. My first cousin was martyred fighting heroically in that very Assab front. From what I learned later on, he was killed in the last offensive (I guess the 17 Weyane attempt to capture Assab). I assume the Weyanes attempted 19 times launching one attack after another till they were decisively defeated. Now, we have those who are unabashedly trying to DISTORT this very heroic Eritrean history by claiming that it was the international community that stopped the Weyanes from moving into Eritrean cities with their tanks. This fescennine ( dirty and obscene) revisionism is coming from those who never fail to tell us that they were ELF fighters. In their zeal to show their commitment to their TPLF-esque ( Weyane-esque) political disposition, they will say things that are tantamount to an act like spitting on or desecrating the graves of those Eritrean heroes and heroines who fell defending Assab in particular and Eritrea in general.

        • Amanuel Hidrat

          Hi Gheteb,

          Okay Gheteb, what is the exit strategy from the current impasse? Is that to prepare for a war effort, like that of 1998? to regain our land. Or is there any option we can find soft landing to the no war no peace status, that is still hurting our people? Let us stop for a moment about the psychological pains of the last senseless war that are still looming upon us, and focus on how to end the current confrontation. Every Eritrean house hold has paid its share to that senseless war. Your pain is the pain of all Eritrean people, for they have given their love ones like your own cousin you mentioned him in your comment. The war should have been avoided in the first place, if we had accepted the US/Ruwanda proposal. Help us on how to resolve the problem. Since the Ethiopians can not leave without the enforcement mechanism, don’t expect them to leave without reinstating the enforcement mechanism back to the table. Let us be real. You know as I know, even the rule of law can not be observed without the enforcement mechanisms. Let us be frank and give the necessary thought, with a sober mind marinated with little wisdom from the national store. Hate generate more hates, and we shouldn’t let it unrestrained driving our emotions. So please Gheteb, let us focus on how to resolve our problem.

          • Hayat Adem

            And you are asking this from Gheteb? I should appreciate and recognize your forward looking and positive nature, but my gut feeling is people like Gheteb are here to take us to the past not to the future. If I’m wrong on this, there is no one happier than I’m.

          • ‘Gheteb

            You are querying by saying: ” Are you asking this from Gheteb? and then you share your “gut- feeling” that “people like Gheteb are here to take us to the past [and] not to the future”. Let me take this opportunity to ask you again to answer some of the questions I have posed, but you have so far refused to answer;
            1) You said that I didn’t know where ‘Gheteb is located. Do you still believe that? Why or why not?
            2) You asserted that the term “Abessinian fundamentalism” is a “new coinage” meaning that I coined the term. Do you still believe that? Why or why not?
            3) Have you checked the meaning of the term Occam’s Razor? If you did, how does your new understanding changed the fact that you misconstrued its meaning and you have accused me that I was planning “to shave your head?????
            4) I have asked you to explain what the term “Akakkizeraf” meant when you hectored me ‘to slow on that Akakkizeraf personality?
            5) And, now you are saying this: ” you are asking Gheteb or expecting from people like Gheteb’? Now, what do you mean? Haven’t you called me all kinds of names so far like characterizing me as a “comedian” without even qualifying your characterization of me?
            Well, well, well. Do you have anything to say in your defense?

          • Hayat Adem

            I think I can answer them if I didn’t last time.
            1) “By the way, I read you one time while you were debating Amanuel H that you were not sure where Gheteb was. It’s actually deep in Sudanese territory… Anyway, I brought it to tell you the location of your nickplace.” Someone you call the veritable walking encyclopedia of Eritrea said the above quote. I picked it up. I had no reason to doubt him. You didn’t react to that statement until today as far as I know. But when I picked that and mention it as a passing remark you challenged me. I told you where I get the impression from and I also told you I would correct with whatever you would tell me if that was incorrect. Here you are still shaking me over that little, already addressed and already redressed issue in stead of setting the record as you would like it set. I hope this settles it and I hope you will not bring this again. I don’t think you’ve asked me other question that deserve answer.

          • Nitricc

            Easy; follow the international verdict to the letter. Let TPLF leave the land, according to what they sign and agree for. Once they are out of our land then we can dialog on how we can normalize relationship and even corporation economics. If you do it any other way; then it might flare up for different reasons in the future. If you do it according what the court has said; the case will be close for ever and the generations to come on both sides will live with it and are safe. How hard is this for to understand?

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Nitrickay,

            How do they leave without finishing the demarcation process? Isn’t the war was fought for demarcation of the borders? Don’t be damn, we are talking about legal issue, and legal issues has enforcement mechanism. Are you expecting Eritrea alone to demarcate the border? Don’t be a laughing stock.

          • Ted

            Amanuel, Who is damn here, Both Ethiopia and Eritrea presented their case to arbitrary commission knowing(agreeing) the decision to be final. For reason you and TPLF only know, “They can’t pack and go” from Bademe hence virtual demarcation.

          • Semere Andom

            Ted, ok let say Ethiopian government is stupid something for not leaving, but why are you guys fetishizing this piece of land, they cannot take it with them, they cannot kill the stones, they cannot take the soil, hills and mountains , they cannot even till or mine anything from the land. It is ours and we can have is back either by force or peace sooner or later. So why are you guys worshipping it instead of worrying likes us for those in Ela Erro for the enslaved, for the murdered for the demise of the nation. For the legacy of prostitution, legacy of murder and legacy of unlawfulness , legacy of distraction and rape. Your obsession with the least important, most trivial is outstanding. And your worship of the stones and hills pales in comparison to job of the Bible. I say to you to curse the PFDJ and side with your people

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Ted,
            Do you know what demarcation mean? Demarcation is putting the markers (pillars or sign posts) on the ground permanently as signs of border lines. Do you know who will put the demarcation posts? Isn’t it part of the agreement that the enforcers (which you should know them by now) has to put the markers? Is that so hard to understand the legality of it, and how it should be enforced. Just pack and go is an illiterate talk. Ted, I am sure you know the process, you are just making “apolitical Halki”. Just tell who will demarcate it? And what does the agreement says about the demarcation process? I have asked you other questions before, you have failed to do that. Now the last attempt, these are different questions, I hope you will answer them. If you don’t I will not take as serious man.

          • Ted

            Amanuel Don’t get twisted. . TPLF wants dialogue not about the demarcation process( technical procedure) but about fixing the political and social relationship of both countries. Eritrea claims the social and political issue has nothing to do with demarcation and are willing to talk about TPLF concern after Demarcation. There is noting to stipulate these countries has to dialogue in the signed agreement. “Just tell me who will demarcate it?”. The procedure is left for both countries selected individuals with international technical observers. They don’t even have to like each other, Simple as that,,..

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            So Ted, you are telling us it will be demarcated by Eritrean and Ethiopian. Ethiopians and Eritreans are going to put the markers on the ground. The international community are only observers. The only thing I can say to you is, please go and read the detail of the document. I am now convinced that I am talking with some one who hasn’t a clue about the content of the EEBC technical enforcement agents. Thank you, you finally gave a closure to our debate (if it is a debate at all).

          • Ted

            Amanuel, You can’t wiggle out this by picking words out of context.. In a perfect world it would have been easier to do the demarcation by their own unfortunately they have to call mediator to solve the impasse.The two parties means from both side(Eritrea and Ethiopia). It is only up to both, Eritrea and Ethiopia, to honer the agreement every step of the way( along the line from Djibouti to Sudan border) and let the commission do its job. If one of them disagree for one reason or another the demarcation stalls. Better yet why don’t you tell us what really “your Goyta” want talk about.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Ted,

            Who is wiggling Ted, just watch your two comments contradicting each other within three hours difference, marked specifically as (****).

            (A) Don’t get twisted. . TPLF wants dialogue not about the demarcation process( technical procedure) but about fixing the political and social relationship of both countries. Eritrea claims the social and political issue has nothing to do with demarcation and are willing to talk about TPLF concern after Demarcation. There is noting to stipulate these countries has to dialogue in the signed agreement. “Just tell me who will demarcate it?”. The procedure is left for both countries selected individuals with international technical observers. They don’t even have to like each other, Simple as that,,..”

            ***your core message to my comment was: “The procedure is left for both countries……..with international technical observers.”

            (B) “In a perfect world it would have been easier to do the demarcation by their own unfortunately they have to call mediator to solve the impasse.The two parties means from both side(Eritrea and Ethiopia). It is only up to both, Eritrea and Ethiopia, to honer the agreement every step of the way( along the line from Djibouti to Sudan border) and let the commission do its job. If one of them disagree for one reason or another the demarcation stalls.”

            *** you core message to my comment in here is: “unfortunately they have to call mediator to solve the impasse.”

            This is clearly self-expose-wiggling on your side, my friend.

        • tes

          Dear Gheteb,

          Good progress and happy for joining as lecturer to to the school of Chauvinists Ghetebino.

          tes

          • selam

            why do not you campaign for the Eritrean oppositions to form one strong opposition committee and start ground work to cut IA’s every support he get outside Eritrea then. Why are they allowed still to suck money and also hold meetings in America and Europe. why are AfB funding HGDEF’s project ? Why are you people talking about new party then. 100 years you chicken head , people are sentenced to hunger , prison and lose of dignity as human being by IA and you still have time to say 100 year.

          • tes

            I believe the Eritrean Opposition group is more than anytime strong these days. They don’t need one to call them but to join them. And I am already part of the opposition group and since I am not an outsider like you, I will not call but I am working to my level best to make the opposition camp in which I live on to be much stronger.

            Therefore, I am not an outsider and hence I can not call myself unless I am a hypocrite like yours.

          • selam

            I have clearly told you that , you love your people and you are working hard to change course but i think you are little arrogant and judgmental, forgive me for saying this but that is true.

            So who is having the upper hand in america and Europe , the opposition or the IA government ?
            What you are missing is the communication and target groups. For example most Eritreans are focused on how to integrate with European life style and then buy house in Eritrea that is it. over 20,000 Eritreans who have foreign citizens buy their ticket for summer holiday to Eritrea , what does it show you ?

            And again i want you to tell me , your understanding, do you think the weyane sympathizers are dragging our struggle back to the starting point ? Do they really think that Eritreans in Ethiopian refugee camp will pick the gun and fight ?

            Is not it better to have the Eritrean public rise than some weyane puppets have more voice than they can carry ?

      • tes

        Dear Ted,

        The confusion with you is that you are not able to differentiate between PFDJ and the people, PFDJ and the government. And above all, you are failed to differentiate between the heroism of the people and the betrayal of PFDJ for the people’s heroism. If you need more elaboration, I will be around. Point!

        tes

        • Ted

          Tes, please do Prof.. First i tell you what i know.
          PFDJ is the ruling single party= Eritrean GOV.-Bad
          The people of Eritrea support or oppose PFDJ, but they live under its rule anyway.BAD
          Heroic Eritrean people defended the aggression of TPLF. Awesome.
          PFDJ doesn’t live up to the expectation of the people.BAD

          • tes

            Ted, Good, if this is the case, we are on the same page. Then, why don’t we “WEED-OUT” PFDJ if it is not living upto the public expectation. Why we are trying to bring and mix the TPLF bla bla issues?

          • Ted

            Tes, We can’t ignore the fact, the “yes Goytay” group are the problem for all of us. They hijacked the struggle. The fact is, we all are not happy what is happening on the ground and want to see Eritreans solve their problem by their own. Empowering the people to demand change is my struggle of choice.

          • selam

            Thanks Ted

            The best and honest statement . I promise if you continue such analysis i will not respond to some yes goytay.

          • Ted

            Selam, don’t give up on them(the Yes GoytaY) yet. If they really are our kind , they will come around.

    • Semere Andom

      Wo Gheteb:
      The war for Eritrean’s independence was bloody and it was made unnecessarily bloody by the unnecessary civil war. It was the lack of solving “internal’ disagreement with debate, patience and vision. As I read snippet here and there from the Adobaha a congress and the young men who transcended to transform the armed struggle to a true national struggle, I cannot help but notice the regression of the struggled as it became more popular. All the skeletons of the bloody war are the creeks that feed the rivers of our suffering at this time. It is our internal issues that are haunting us as we failed to transform our demons to reformed angels, but turning angels to demons. The much over used and abused “threat’ of external enemies is a hallucinatory manifestation of the yester years, an affliction that has been exploited by PFDJ to clinch the power to reign for eternity, to transform our innately law abiding society to a lawless jungle.

      The 1998 war broke, and we valiantly defended our territories, leaving the polemic of who started it and then the likes of Haile Derue twisted the IA’s arms to force him accept the deal. Ethiopia is there to protect its own interest not ours and I applaud them for that and a responsible Eritrean government should have done that to protect the interest of Eritrea, that is why is in shambles. The entire government apparatus in Eritrea is laboring to attend to the whims of man lunatic man that is our Achilles’ heels that we must find antidote for its urgency and its danger

      The bloody war resulted in current geography we call Eritrea hoisting a piece of cloth at in the UN, printed its money, Nacka, built some roads, some dams and installed hooligans in the top and appointed hit men and women in the bottom and we are supposed to be proud of that. Not only that we are supposed to attribute our failings to external forces that does not exist some base in less than 0.01% of our land. This is akin as the Germans languishing in poverty and jail until the American base is removed from their land.

      Also you are expecting MZ to be an equivocal than IA regarding the independence of Eritrea, according to the same interviewer IA was equivocating about the suggestion of him being the president of united Ethiopia.

      Like Jacob, you are wrestling with a nameless angle for his blessing, even if the price is long term disability to the hip joint.

      Let assume that TPLF was half hearted about our independence, we proved them wrong by voting 100% for divorce. Let assume they tried to occupy us, oh, again we prevailed as we denied them Asmara and Assab. We prevailed. Let assume that they think they can cheat by giving us grain like the hens, but we out smarted them and created our own currency named after one of our towns. Let assume that they do not like us and they want to cleanse us, but we charmed them to the point that we are 100,000 strong in their camps and the entire 400,000 already there from before. All these attest to how good we are, right? Why are we languishing in ElaErro, why are our Jeffersons, Madisons, Hamiltons, Adams are being murdered, why are our women raped, and our youth condemned to slavery? If there is one thing in this universe that will undo Eritrea, flush the dreams of generation of Eritreans through the toils, it will be our own internal demons and not external demons that will descend from somewhere.

      • ‘Gheteb

        Wo Melehy Semere Wed Abuye Andom,
        Thanks for rendering your rebuttal.
        WeAlif Shukaran

      • Kim Hanna

        Selam Semere Andom,
        .
        I am reasonably sure on occasion you must feel you are in the coockoo’s nest. I can vouch that sometimes, I swear, you are the only sane person in the room.
        Some of these people write pretty, however, all they reveal to me is their clear detachment from reality. The only plausible other explanation is that it all might be a propaganda campaign for some perceived historical rehabilitation.
        .
        K.H

    • saay7

      Second cousin:

      I can now officially retire from Awate, if u promise me that u will not tire, u will not be exhausted for the next two year. Phew!

      On the Eritrea-ethiopia border war, u have to remember that many of those who were turned off by Isaias’s ubilateral and boneheaded decision of May 1998, never made any due diligence, never followed, on TPLF (sorry h.we.Ha.t. Sorry EPRDF) belligerence from February 2009 (the moment they took back Badme) to present. That is: Isaias was a stubborn idiot for May 1998-feb 2009 but Weyane has been stubborn and lawless from February 2009 to present. That is 14 months of stuborness vs 72 months of weyane stuborness and lawlessness. No “Eshi getaye” Eritrean, no “EPLF pushed elf in 1982 and I am so pissed goddamit”, will ever admit that. Ever. All the stories u are telling about Assab that is being denied by the refuseniks is primarily because during that horrific period, they were absent without leave. They were not following the developments, busy as they were nursing ancient grudges.

      Bottom line. EPLF now PFDJ under Isaias rule is a horrible organization. But so is hwehat TPLF. There is zero reason to jump from the fire to the frying pan. Any serious Eritrran eho has seen how ethio government treats its journalists, how it treats its marginalized groups, how it treats Somalia, how it treats South Sudan and comes away admiring it is either naive (99%) of eritreans or an Abyssinaian fundamentalists with wicked governance formula for Eritrea.

      Aash Gheteb

      We now have Eritreans who want ethiopia to continue occupying Badme. We have Ethiopians who wish it would return it. And we have the confused Mekele Syndromers (like Stockholm Syndromers) who believe whatever is good for Mekele is good for Eritrea.

      Gheteb, cousin, this Issue infuriates me and warps my ability to think straight and be effective. I will retire if u give ur word that u will stick around.

      Saay

      • asmerom

        Dear Saay
        why are dancing around, why don’t you just spit out and we can go from there
        Who are those who have a Google knowledge of Eritrea and those who have been defeated by EPLF and restore to disconnected ideology ? Why are you trying to push people to some unpleasant part of our history
        be respectful and let us talk about something that benefits our people in the future the past is past.
        But if you insist about being defeated by EPLF bring it on

        • Hayat Adem

          I think it all is showing that the retirement announcement might be a good decision. Sal was a good thinker and a good writer one time I was dreaming of finding a common ground between him and YG and inspiring and firing up the Eritrean youth like no other. He still writes good but….
          He had been part of the war fueling it pretty much like the kebero women are doing these days. He never apologized for that. If you revisit his past, he would be infuriated and tell you that was the past and he was only propelling the Eritrean national mood during a war time, and simultaneously admonish you for mining about something that happened years ago. But if he finds someone who speaks for him about the past, he comes out from his winter hibernation and ululates in the same mood and tone he was doing dunring the war dram and hostility between these two sisters. As you can see him nothing makes jump up and down than the rhetoric of the past war as in the above.

          • T. Kifle

            lately, I was thinking Gheteb could be a reincarnated SAAY of ten and half decade ago but his comments here attests to the fact that these two characters are one and the same.

      • Amanuel Hidrat

        Here you goes speaking about the “victor and the vanquished” Eritrean historical divide. Very sad, and very difficult to find a closure for it, always coming from an unexpected highly literate follow Eritreans.

      • teweldino

        I could not believe you have absolved Isiais from stubbornness from Feb 1999 onwards ( I’m ignoring your “2009” typo because you said 14 months of …). Btw, if you believed he was stubborn between May 1998 and Feb 1999; if you believed his decision in 1998 caused the war; how come you tried to paint a different picture in your writings? Or it just occurred to you today?

        Or should we just take your admission at face value (i.e, “this Issue infuriates me and [b]warps my ability to think straight and be effective[/b]”) and ignore your comments / articles etc in relation to TPLF / Bademe / border war / Ethiopia as you would obviously be talking nonsense?

        • selam

          I can understand the truth is not going well in your head.

        • saay7

          Hey Teweldino:

          It is simple really. If you want to have an “objective” view of the Eritrea-Ethiopia border war, the only way to judge is from the perspective of the peace-makers. That would be AU/EU/UN/US. So, from May 1998- February 1999, we Eritreans (exemplified by our unelected spokesperson, Isaias Afwerki) were in the wrong: we would not listen to their appeals. Of course, it is perfectly rational for an Eritrean to believe (as I did, and do) that their appeals were biased and unfair.

          Now, in February 1999, Ethiopia took back Badme. And since that time, the same AU/EU/UN has passed countless of peace-proposals and resolutions (I can list them if you like) that Eritrea immediately accepted and Ethiopia did its usual “we accept in principle, but…” routine. That is from February 1999 to the Algiers Agreement in 2000. And since the EEBC ruling, which Eritrea accepted unconditionally, Ethiopia has been doing the same, “we accept in principle, but…” routine. For over 12 years.

          Now all the eshi getaye amen corner Eritreans who tell us how wonderful EPRDF is have some explaining to do. It is stunning to me that an ETHIOPIAN will call on his country to abide by the EEBC before the eshi getaye amen corner does.

          This week, one of the EPRDF cadres (really I am not an insider) told us, the EEBC is null and void. Tell that to the EEBC itself which conducted virtual demarcation of the border. As Mahmud Saleh said, the kicking out of UNMEE was the best thing the PFDJ did because “peacekeepers”, once they are in, they never leave. In fact, Isaias Afwerki can put that on top of his list of accomplishment in his resume: only country to kick out “peacekeepers” from my country; otherwise they would have been there for decades. Remember, UNMEE was mandated for a limited period of time: until there is demarcation in accordance with the terms of EEBC. If one party says, nah, I changed my mind, I don’t want to demarcate in accordance with the terms of EEBC, is UNMEE supposed to stay in Eritrea indefinitely?

          Finally, an ethics lesson:

          a. You supported Eritrea’s position in the Badme war, and you spoke out in support (me);
          b. You opposed Eritrea’s position in the Badme war, and you spoke out against it (saleh Gadi Johar);
          c. You supported Eritrea’s position in the Badme war, but chose to be silent; (silent majority)
          d. You opposed Eritrea’s position in the Badme war, and you chose to be silent. (cowardly majority.)

          The most morally indefensible position from the list above is choice “d.” And if you think I am going to take moral lessons from that group (which includes many of the “eshi goitay” amen corner awatistas here”) you are sadly mistaken. One of them, a hard-core TPLFite who pretends to be Eritrean, actually said, well, “writing using your real name and writing using a pen name (a complete fabrication that is neither Eritrean, nor male, nor Muslim) is just a personal choice on whether you want publicity or not. Ha!!!

          saay

    • Amde

      Gheteb,

      Wow, I can certainly say I did not expect such a fine job of polishing TPLFs nationalist credentials from you.

      There are a hundred ways to provide “support” to a fighting force. Objectively speaking, TPLF lost lives, blood, treasury, political capital and legitimacy by deciding to support the Eritrean cause. There is no other non-Eritrean party/body/nation that has committed more for the Eritrean cause than the TPLF of yesterday.

      AND the TPLF of today. Nowhere else in the world where two countries are still at war will you hear the kind of nonsense that Sebhat Nega stated on radio in 2007 – to wit, that the TPLF will be the first to go to war to defend Eritrea. (I would love to have been a fly on the wall of the Ethiopian Army Officers Club when that went down as they were reminiscing the victories and losses they added up in the Badme war.)

      I don’t know what is worse in your post – the depth of ingratitude, or the astounding ability to delude oneself. Don’t you think there are mothers from Adigrat to Maichew who have lost their sons in the Sahel to die on your behalf?

      Objectively speaking, the facts are that
      1. TPLF supported Eritrean independence politically, diplomatically and militarily.
      2. Eritrean independence created two countries with strong military capabilities.
      3. Hegemonic competitions of the two testosterone stoked forces set up a dry tinder waiting for a spark situation.
      4. Badme was the spark.
      5. Ethiopia won the military war, but badly bungled the arbitration case.
      6. The arbitration decision puts politically unacceptable burden on TPLF.
      7. TPLF decides to punt until it can find a more agreeable partner on the Eritrean side, or if not – just stay on as a fait accompli.
      I don’t think it is more complicated than that.

      You know what is funny is that what you wrote is inaccurate, but it may be a case of bringing fantasies to life. There is a new generation of TPLF coming on board, and in some ways your characterization probably will fit them better than the old generation of Melles, Sebhat et al. If you joined the TPLF since 2000, as far as Eritrea is concerned this is what you personally know.
      1. The Badme war was caused by Eritrea in a treacherous fashion.
      2. Eritrea bombed Ayder school.
      3. Eritrea supported Al Shabab in Somalia.
      4. Eritrean belligerence has negatively affected Tigrayan economic prospects.
      5. Eritrea threatens your internal political dominance by supporting your political enemies
      6. Other Ethiopians think you sold out the country’s interest, and cannot be trusted not to do it again on Eritrea’s behalf.
      7. Eritreans are not grateful for the sacrifice your organization made and continues to make on their behalf.

      Objectively speaking, a new TPLF recruit since 2000 will have had 15 years where Eritrea is nothing but a source of trouble. The record is quite clear that supporting the Eritrean cause has proven to be a net negative. Does that mean the new TPLF generation will want to reverse Eritrean independence? Nah – that is too much trouble – one hopes it is a case of once bitten twice shy. But the eternal game of regional pecking order will continue.

      Amde

  • Semere Andom

    The Urgent and the Inconvenient:
    The forum was entangled into heated debated regarding the issue of Badme. This debates are taking place in the cyberspace, a good thing, as Eritreans are using the new media to debate, engage and sometimes the debates is so passionate as it should be. Imagine now just for fun, day dream about the day when PFDJ is PFDJ is removed and such heated, passionate debates are happening in the Eritrean parliament. But eventually the speaker delivers his ruling. Am sounding like Old Major? I am sure Napoleon is listening and the puppy is getting ready:-)

    Unfortunately only diaspora Eritreans can engage as Eritrea is behind in many things and technology is one of the casualties. Eritrea under PFDJ is an authority on many “behinds.” Eritrea is behind in human right, behind in food security, behind in securing its territorial integrity. But also PFDJ is “behind” a terrorist support. The tortoise is behind counting on the hare to sleep.
    The demography of Eritrea is a suitable for PFDJ. Although diverse society, largely the 8 ethnic groups are small and PFDJ have being abusing them and so far the abused ethnic groups have not untied under one emblem to fight PFDJ, disunited, small and weak they wallow in their silos. The newly minted ELL superficially sounds to embrace all lowlands, but discerning from their founding members it is not so. I am of the opinion that a genuinely united Lowland front can threaten PFDJ but that has not happened to our perpetual dismay. The

    The demographically lucky, the highlanders, mostly Christians are conflicted, although slowly they are waking from their slumber when the abuses of PFDJ is heating home. Historically they are late bloomers even in the armed struggle, but when they finally come, they will be the lynch pin of the change. Their conflict arises from the deeply rooted believe depicted in the adage, “the devil you know is better than the angel you do not know.” Also, PFDJ whispers into their ears the risk of “aslam” and they buy into it, who Aklilu Zere calls, the stones, they have a soft spot in their hearts for the PFDJ and it is not their fault, PFDJ the habitual liar tells how much they love them, like a young innocent teenage girl they fall for it. The creation of ELL without a galvanized, grassroots movement that represents the entire Lowland, the ELL will actually re-awakens the fear and PFDJ will capitalize on it by sending its members who have Muslim names and they will tell them, if these people were not Jihadist, we will join them, “neana yqerbuna.”That is the danger of the ELL syndrome to Eritrea.

    At a time when the opposition is divided, when it cannot even confidently assert why it is in Ethiopia, at time when the Eritrean people are leaving their roots at a rate of 4000 a month, at a time when PFDJ has literally turned to a mafia group, at a time when people are paralyzed to the point the regime is so confident and dares them by handing them guns, the issue of Badme being under Ethiopian administration is merely inconvenient. Attending, brainstorming the urgent issues that are formulated by PFDJ, catalyzed by its wilful supporters and cleansed by some Eritreans who oppose the PFDJ is the siren calls of our time and the victims of untold injustice.

    • Mahmud Saleh

      Sem Hfoon,
      BTW; Using Arabic keyboard apps.the worst.

      سياسات استرضاء اثيوبيا لن تخدم عملية بناء قوة وطنية بديلة, وظواهر بروز جمعيات ذو برامج اقليمية سوف تستمر طال ما المساحة تغيب فيها برامج عمل وطنية موحدة تتمتع بثقة كل فءات شعبنا

    • sara

      eritreans leaving in droves… i know a country in the levant were almost 60000 immigrate every year , and it has been so for the past 40 years and the yearly population average of that country never changes. its a beautiful country and 1 in 3 has been out of the country sometime in his life, and it have similar problems of eritreans
      and more,but still life goes on and people live there and enjoy it and others leave to have the same somewhere else.no wories eritrea will have many who vote to stay.

      • Hayat Adem

        Hakuna matata! No worries? Really?
        So this is not a crisis? It may as well be a levantization policy, so to say. is it? You have a young country that paid 65 thousand in lives and 120K in arms and legs, so much resource and opportunity, 30 years of struggle for a better future and ended up in a worse condition than the situation it invested to free itself from, and all you can tell me is Hakuna matata? You have a country burdened by hopelessness, isolation and sanctions, and all you tell me is that it has been like that all the time, nothing new! The country’s best and brightest, the young and the shaker is fleeing leaving behind the old and the unable, and you take comfort that they will still be behind! The highlander is leaving in high numbers disproportionately exposing the country to a demographic collapse shattering the hope of transforming and kangrooing the young nation to where Singapore is today. MaElesh on this too. Like I said in another feed, the tragic comedy form the PFDJites is endless: they do what they want. They force people to work for them for free. The profit is sent to Swiss. If you tell them their sin, they tell you “so what”. If you invoke rule and law, they invite you to fight them and stop them: “come and fight if you can, if you can’t go to the moon”. If you try to go to the “moon”, they shoot you from the back. If you are luck and still make it, they tell you “that is no big deal. Hakuna matata! We still have some inside”. Hakuna matata….

    • Ted

      Semere, Meles zenawi would’t had written this Muslim vs Christian affair better. You to took it right out of his dead mouth.You know he is up in TPLF heaven smiling down on you.” Faithful friends are gifts from heaven: Whoever finds one has found a treasure.”
      Don’t get off from TPLF tank yet, it has a few miles worth of fuel.

      • Semere Andom

        Can you point out untruth in my comment. The endagered spices will say whatever, it is their drowning person’s straw. My fight is against PFDJ, not against TPLF, because the later have their country and I have mine that I am sadly sharing with PFDJ

      • Nitricc

        Ted; do you noticed how Semere; the dumb one trying to be YG. That is all about this crap. He is so dumb; he doesn’t even come up with his own idea; he had to copy words for words from dead dictator PMMZ to dead-walking YG. The good thing is he assured us the Africans and the UN will protect us from any imaginable enemy. All we have to do is, let the TPLF thugs to enter the capital city and dislodge PIA.
        I think I have seen cowards in many occasions but never like this one. Semere; you are not YG; can you come up with your on? Too dumb to come up with one, huh?

        • Hayat Adem

          Nitricc about Semere: “Are you that dumb and stupid?”
          Nitricc about himself: “I admit I’m the dumbest and fearless!”

          • Nitricc

            How is Kiros doing? A tigryan man sleeping with a Muslim woman. Lol. You are a joke and deceptive. Your dumb dedebit brother has came clean; why not you? Just say it. Your name is letekidan from Adi-Grat. How hard is that.

          • Hayat Adem

            It is hard when it is not your name. Let the great artist rest in peace and deal with me. Respect the departed. You are awarding too many dumb medals lately. Semere, Me and Yourself. And you are making awate look like a house of dumbs. Honestly, one is enough and I’m not competing for it with you.

          • asmerom

            Nitricc
            You show it again and again that you are really the “dumbest and fearless ” by your own admission
            why don’t you grow up and debate ideas .

  • selam

    To All

    what is the meaning of GUAL HIDRTINA , when i click this word i find it against me so many times and it kind of irritates me because i feel it is referring like to my mam or some thing like that.

    • tes

      You have a Tigrigna-Tigrigna dictionary of Tekie Tesfay. You have referred it when you used to check what Shulu is. You can check it for this too. But make, sure, it is not touching your mother. I have agreat respect even to your personality except to your politics.

      I am saying gual hidirtina because you are commenting from a hidden place being in Asmara. Very few do that and being a female hiding some where and having unlimited access to internet, an athiest, all this can give you a nick-name gual hidirtina. It is a mythical name given to women believed to be living among us as invisible.

      Else, well come anyone who can either explain to her what it is or correct me if I am doing a mistake. If I am breaking posting guidelines, I accept all actions taken as I am responsible ad with full consciousness that I am doing and hence I humbly accept any correction measures taken.

      tes

      • selam

        Being female , what does it mean ? are n’t you familiar with our history ,when our mothers and sisters fought hand to hand combat war against dergi. Forget about me who happens to have every option to be what ever she wants.

        About the word i could not find it yet.

        • tes

          Funny. This is how you divert things for your own hollow argument. Anyway, Saleh Johar has given you what it mean in English.

          I rest my case for today as you are finally kicked-off by your last trial.

          • selam

            Ok whatever

    • Saleh Johar

      selam, Gual Hdrtna means a “fairy”…. now please slow down–you and tes, you are just bombarding the forum with one-liners. “Awahlil” is an important word, it’s a Tigrinya word you need to learn: “Awahlil” You have to ask an elder on the streets what it means… you are living in Asmara for God’s sake, not Norway or Sweden where in this cold weather it is difficult to find anyone in the streets. Now go to Godena Harenet and have a cup of Cappuccino on me, unless they are all closed 🙂

      • Haile WM

        lol ato saleh don’t be that sarcastic… she is in asmara !!! where “miwhlal” and “gual hidirtina” are ancient words nobody uses them anymore 😀

        • selam

          May be you and tesfe used the word gual hidrtina more .

          • Hayat Adem

            Selam,
            Seriously though, if you tell me you are in Asmara, I have no reason not believe you but being an Asmara resident, you can’t be that alien to such commonly used TigrigNa words. Mix and socialize in the cafes and pick as many words as possible.
            1) If I may ask, how do you rate yor TigrigNa proficiency (1-10), 10 being a native level?
            2) What is your mother tongue language?

          • selam

            Bilen is my father language i can speak bilen in which i can score 4/10 in expressing my idea.
            About tigrina , well i am new and i can not say i have any level may be 2 will be my best score but it is completely complex language with too much twisted meaning .
            I am trying to communicate in a civilized way if possible ,with out calling names. Especially with these who thinks they have the authority to say and define about some once political affiliate’s.

          • Hayat Adem

            You are good. keep the civility.

      • selam

        Saleh ,In Your double standard and unfair court you are punishing the bullied one.
        If you are serious tell the bully , bullying is not allowed. Unless you do not lecture people by your wise misguided words to some one who is bullied not once but so many times. Why will you care to tell me, where i live and how cold the Scandinavian countries are. Sell your sarcastic to other people.

        You know you have totally failed on the last attempt to define shilu, why will i accept your definition now ?

    • Gherhi

      I think GUAL HIDRTINA is the opposite of ANDOROBO. I hope that helps you somehow.

    • Hope

      habibti,,
      Ignore and focus on the substance:
      How to bring real change in Eritrea!
      Avoid and stay away from distractors and keep being yourself!
      No one is perfect’

  • Fnote Selam

    Interesting to watch, some Ethiopians undoing the saint picture of Ethiopian gov some Eritreans are trying (very hard) to paint.

    • Amanuel Hidrat

      Dear Fnote Selam,

      You make me wonder, when you try to insinuate, as if there is a “saint picture” in governance in particular and in politics in general. What is the “saint picture” of politics and governance? In politics and governance, depending on the factors that dictated it and the markers of regression and progression, we always give our evaluation . Now rather than going to disqualify the term “saint picture,” right away, I would like to have a little elaboration from you, how you come to such conceptual argument, and how it is applicable in the dichotomy of socio-politics?

      regards,
      Amanuel Hidrat

      • Fnote Selam

        Hi Amanuel,

        There is not much to it the ways I used it here, just a figure of speech.

        Best,

        FS.

    • Hayat Adem

      Dear Fnote,
      What part of the picture bothers you foremost? Can you specify a bit?
      Hayat

      • Fnote Selam

        Hi Hayat,

        It more of an interesting observation than bothersome.

        Best,

        FS.

  • Gherhi

    Tesfaberhan and Selam,

    You two are not cute. You guys are littering this forum and diluting the content of the debates. This is looking more like a chat room. There is a limit to everything and you guys are becoming annoying now. Well, I can see both of you arrogant knuckleheads telling me to not read your posts. But I care because I visit this website and check first the column on the right which lists the ‘Recent’ posts and it is you two incessantly filling in one or two-liners.

    • tes

      Dear Gherhi,

      You are right but when ever I do that there is something. I could have simply followed discussions but when I read a line that I believe is against my own values, my history and my rights of justice and integrity, I pop up and respond. I have broadly explained why I followed selam this time. She groasly accused Eritreans by refering the 1950s history. She apologized but her apology came in not when responsible people like Amanuel Hidrat tried to correct her but after reading a news paper written in 1950s. This means, she is not only without know-how but a stubborn and closed minded lady. Her mind is so close that she never accepts when people try yo correct her.

      Imagine, her belief was, till today, the highlanders are the only people who favored federation of Eritrea with Ethiopia. How damaging was this to our struggle for freedom? Are we that much ignorant in our own history? Let’s forget about Ethiopia now? The most saddening thing is, she knows more about Ethiopia than Eritrea and she claims that she lives in Asmara. What a curse is this?

      But, I accept your critic though I did it with full consciousness for a reason that I have discussed above.

      tes

    • selam

      Gherhi tell me what am i going to do. this person is just following me every where and he does not argue or debate .he keep insulting me.

      What do you do about a person who asked you for your forgiveness after he make a mistake.
      Do you go all over and insult him again and again. I am asking this person to respect at least not to say gual ….. and so on. I was posting with hayat and she never insult me , why does he ?

      • tes

        selam,

        If you follow the accusation of Nitrric to Semere Andom, a hollow and PFDJ minded people accusation, you could differentiate easily why I didn’t accept your apology. Semere Andom did a word usage mistake and Amanuel Hidrat came in and corrected him. Before, I appreciated Semere Andom’s analysis and it is only after Amanuel Hidrat came in and corrected that I admitted for doing a mistake. Even it was not my own but for not paying attention for what was said. Then, Semere Andom accepted the correction without any argument and explained why he did it in that way. In fact, he didn’t do any mistake but in today’s confused Eritrean landscape, people can interprate it for their own advantage and so is doing Nitricc, the confused graduate class of school of chauvinists. Semere Andom, with all his experiences and know-how of politics, could have stayed into his own way of reasoning but accepted Amanuel’s humble correction for the sake of our political correctness.

        But you, you did a big mistake in history. You fabricated your own history and used it extensively. Even you went deep into the statistical comparison with Ali or Hameed-the Arabi and went into %age argument. You are a database expert and you could have easily pulled-up to show us the current % of Eritrean demography. You even followed Nitriccs dirt demographical map and argued on the %age of Tigre bla bla. All this shows your ignorance.

        Are you then acceptable when you do mistakes again and again?

        Remember, I could have escaped simply had it been based on some facts but just a numerical or date error or on your opinion about the past. But, you used history to support your argument. can I then accept your apology? If that is so, it is then very simple to accept PFDJ’s apology after torturing, killing, enslaving, expelling and jailing my people without mercy.

        Apologies can be accepted but when there is no one alive to accept that apology, in case of Eritrea, the Eritrean people and in case of yours, the 50% accused people, your apologies are nothing but coming after the mass-killing.

        tes

        • selam

          I have said this before and i will repeat it again.It ‘s idiotic, poorly done, not funny, boring or in plain words – utter crap. That you have the courage to judge people below your ability just to insult them.

          • tes

            Say what ever you want to describe me. All what I believe is, you are against peace and against the people. Your claim to fight PFDJ is just a cover-up of your venom and I will never tolerate this.

          • selam

            why will i cover up then ? do you think if i believe in HGDEF and i spend such amount of time
            stop it now. I will not say any thing for the sake of other people.

          • tes

            Really? You are just fooling yourself.

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