Inform, Inspire, Embolden. Reconcile!

An Axe That Breaks Down: YG’S Diagnostic Fallacy

Don’t invent Suffering you have never experienced, and don’t paint Pictures you have never seen

Anton Chekhov

Franz Kafka was quoted by the crusading noble laureate for literature, Nadine Gordimer, calling literature as “an ax to break up the frozen sea within us.” Writers and authors have the ability to break taboos within a society – against the cult leaders who incite the forbidden desire of others to awaken, and the ambivalent conflict in them. The taboo leaders are always guarded against anyone who questions their wisdom, leaderships, and every conceivable danger for their great importance to the weal and woe of their subjects. In other words, writers break the complicate and contradictory relationship between the cult leaders and their followers.

In our case, the culture of “Nehna Nsu, Nsu Nehna”– the relationship between the despot and his followers (the reversible relationship bond between the two) who adorns him and worship his leadership, is a subject of investigation for our writers and philosophers — in order to find the logical connections and explanations between Isaias and his subjects on the one hand, and the recurring state of ambivalence of the opposition camp in general, on the other. It was in light of this basic conceptual idea that we were debating Dejen’s “heroism and ambivalence” as a microcosm expression of the political malaise of our society as a whole. But before I continue my argument on the subject, I will share a short story about how I had a poor understanding of literature.

I was a student of life science and things related to it, but I was never been a student of literature. I wasn’t comfortable with subjects that don’t lead to concrete and tangible result right in front of your eyes. My earlier rationale was, if people reads sciences, economics, anthropology, history, etc, they will be good in literature. I become aware about the value of literature when I started to write articles. I found it to be another world in itself.

Though I was active in Eritrean politics, I will give a big credit to Dr. Ogbazghi Yohannes who somehow, from far, influenced me (not directly but indirectly) to swim in the writing world and channel my political views to my fellow Eritreans. My first article was “The Quest for Democracy: Silenced Intellectuals Started to Speak out,” in response to his article “Lessons Still Unlearned,” supporting his call for government of National Unity. I have never met the good doctor though I shared this story with him through e-mails and telephone. So, I am catching up reading literatures in my late age. Nothing is too late if there is a will. Literature surely broadens your imagination in all forms and styles. Literature explains the experience and the imagination of the new world. In fact Thomas Jefferson reminded us that reading fictions will result in “a bloated imagination.”

Therefore, in this essay, I will argue (a) on the role of writers and authors in brief and how world renowned literary figures could relate to our current issues, (b) on YG’s socio-psychological diagnostic fallacy, in detail. In the former I will try to look at the moral and ethics of our writers and their responsibilities to our societies. On the later I will try to uncover the diagnostic fallacy of YG on the Socio-psychological condition of the Eritrean mind, and his diagnostic reasoning without data, as argued in his last article titled, “Dejen’s Syndrome: The contradiction of Eritrean minds”.

Social Responsibilities Of Writers

Writers have the duty to be good, not lousy; true, not false; lively, not dull; accurate, not full of errors. They should uplift people, not lower them down. Writers should not merely reflect and interpret life, but they should inform and shape life [1]. Henceforth, those of us who are attempting to write is with the aim of uplifting the moral of our society, to unite, not to disintegrate, to harmonize, not to create disarray, to seek justice, not to resist justice.

David Boles also saw the role of writers in another perspective. He argued that the role of writers is to check the value and cultural norms of a given society; they question authorities and always pose thoughts, engender conflict and thrive in controversy [2]. So, writers and authors are thought and opinion makers who have the ability to discover how taboos and emotional ambivalence coexist, and how individuals could have both negative and positive feeling towards the same person, object, or action for that matter, at the same time. In other words, writers could discover the simultaneously driving factors in opposite direction of a person or an individual.

My argument will start with, that there is a need to look and recognize some unpleasant truths about ourselves as individuals and as a society. It behooves us to do self-examination and need to shake our foundation. We need to seek an understanding as to why we are where we are, and where we are heading, and therefore be able to formulate an exit strategy from where we are. Like Maxine Greene, we have to delve into the “really hard questions, the unanswerable questions” [3] that seems in front of us. The real hard questions should aim at making us wide-awake in the search for truth, generate inquiry to our imaginative mind, to address the deficiency of our society with the desire to collectively repair what is possible and within our reach. Once that happens, there will be a new beginning and new actions to undertake in our struggle for justice.

Historically, Russian authors and writers are known as prominent commentators on society and politics since the Decemberist revolution of 1825. That tradition still continues today with figures like Alexander Solzhenitsyn and Malaev-Babel. In fact, Alexander Pushkin as an aristocratic writer was the first literary figure to establish “writing as profession”. He wrote on literary periodicals in defense Of Tsar Nicholas-I and also in support of Decemberists’ ideals of freedom – a clear conflicting ideas in one individual mind. In Modern Psychology we call it “Ambivalence.” Another writer/author worth of mentioning, is Anton Chekhov who was regarded as a moral compass, by which the generations of Russians measured their lives against. Chekhov wrote a book titled “The Islands of Sakhalin.” He performed a census and interviews, and treated thousands of political prisoners and settlers over the course of three months. Russian society was confronted with their first exposure of the terrible living condition (similar to ours) and treatment of prisoners and settlers of the island [4]. I will use these two preeminent figures from the Russian literary society later on to argue on “ambivalence” on the one hand and the importance of meticulous researches to study the ailment of our society on the other.

Implicit and explicit critique

According to Greene’s existential view, the world doesn’t swirl around us, but the knower as a person exist in concrete situation seeing the world from that vantage point [5]. Writers are informal educators, and from their vantage point could either inform and persuade, or inform and entertain, or persuade and entertain the public at large. Most writers are functionalist by nature. Functionalists assume that society consist of actors who fulfill specific roles that support the survival of the whole society [6]. So writers of all color and stripes as part of the functionalist actors do write to inform, educate, persuade and entertain for the survival of their society and their nation. In doing that they could support or oppose argument, could make implicit and explicit critique on political commentary, expose deficiency of substances on an argument, help on framing issues and messages, attack to distortions against established concepts.

In my view, Degen’s captivating narration couldn’t be exempted from implicit critique. Instead of critiquing his message line by line, we could give indirect critiquing by giving explanations to what ambivalence means, why human beings have inherent ambivalence, and how do we mitigate the signs of ambivalence. When we do that, we are also reminding ourselves to engage and resolve our conflicting ideas as a way to transform our thoughts and ideas. I believe Degen deserves that kind of critique.

Contrarily a well-argued literary document (essay) by YG should have faced a direct and explicit critique as needed. Because writers take enough time to frame their ideas and surely unless they are clumsy, should make some researches to support the premise of their ideas. YG has a solid belief on what he is saying and what he wants to achieve. So, without reserve, YG should be challenged rigorously and intellectually in a respectful manner, to expose the flaws of his ideas and the work of his project.

So YG’s explicit critique of the interview of Degen who doesn’t have a settled life yet, let alone be analyzed, his conflicting ideas are completely disingenuous. The worst thing is YG’s attempt to portray him as an experiment in order to extrapolate an argument to evaluate the minds of Eritrean people using wrong conceptual theory. However, there are various forms of ambivalence within the public as well as within the opposition camp. Unfortunately, the current ambivalence in our resistance camp has created a recurring oscillation between cynicism and idealism. As in “negative freedom” focusing on themselves and rest in the realm of isolation but never failed to make unsubstantiated argument. They pursue freedom of mistrust and distance from the rest of the society. They really failed to see the culture of violence of the regime and its institutional organizations.

Interestingly enough, in her book “the dialectic of freedom”, Maxine Greene reminded us that nothing is fully predictable or determined, but we ourselves [the writers] as the authors of miracle, it is we who perform them – and we who have the capacities to establish [new] reality of our own [7].

The Dialectics of thinking and the Law of Negation

The dialectics of thinking has its own moral and scientific values. Usually dialectical thinking allows us to see things from different perspectives to come to a reasonable resolution for contradictory views within our self or with other human beings. The law of negation was formulated by Hegel and its dialectical character clearly defines the role of continuity in development. In short, the law of negation of negation is considered as the law of development of nature, society, and thought. The new development (the law of thought) contains in itself the old concept, it contains more than the new idea alone, and it is the unity of the new and its opposites [8].

In the process of negation of negation, development takes in three stages (a) the original state of mind (b) its transformation in to its opposites (that is negation) (c) the transformation of opposites in to its own opposites [9]. Hence the development of thought is borne from the original state of mind. As the new idea emerges, it continues its transformation by the law of opposites and the unity of the old and the new to bring the qualitative changes in our thought.

Furthermore, if the law of unity and the struggle of opposites becomes the source of development and at the same time if the transition from quantitative change to qualitative change reveals the mechanism of development, then the law of negation of negation expresses the direction, form, and result of development [10].

Now the question is, did we read and observe in Degen’s interview the dialectical process in his thought. Yes indeed, we saw the unity of the new thought and its opposites – expressed in his ambivalence. The invisible influence of the past can be read, but yet there was transitory brightness in understanding the nature of the system and its cruelty when he explained the life in prison in our country.

YG have noticed precisely the conflict of thought in Degen. But as a student of philosophy, he should know more than anyone, that ambivalence is a condition seen in the process of “negation” or “negation of negation” that reveals the mechanism of development of thought, whereby the quantitative change of thought transforms to qualitative change of thought. Every human being who thinks and learns from the objective reality, one way or the other, shows ambivalence in his/her dynamic dialectical thought process. Therefore ambivalence is not a condition of pathology as YG tries to characterize it.

Unpacking the Dichotomy of Ambivalence

Hegel is known in the philosophy of history for his systematic inquiry in to the nature of reality. He called this systematic inquiry the dialectics (thesis, antithesis, and synthesis). In other words dialectical methods involve in the form of historical progress that result a conflicting ideas between the actual world and the future potential world. Apparently David Hume furthered Hegel’s systematic inquiry and argued that every thesis (idea) has an inherent antithesis within it. This means, in every thought process within a perceived idea, there are always inherent conflicting thought processes, most of the time in the form of dominant and recessive trait. Of course in some instances we observe vivid conflict that hasn’t resolved the unity of the truth from the conflicting ideas in the mind of the individuals. Hence we call it ambivalence. So ambivalence is neither a sin nor could it be an inherent tragic flaw. It is unresolved conflicting thought process. It always exists within us especially with thinkers and educators in filtering the truth and synthesizing the conflicting of the opposing truths.

YG’s recent article identified the “heroism and ambivalence” in Dejen’s well articulated consecutive interviews. However it has created much of emotional cacophony and squawking, than a thoughtful and intellectual argument against his conceptual approach. Actually this writer identified YG’s core message as “Dejen’s Heroism and Ambivalence” and the rest are feelers for his argument. YG’s philosophical inadequacy begins from the title of his essay “Degen’s Syndrome: The contradictions of Eritrean mind.” In his essay he explicitly argued that Dejen in particular and the Eritrean society in general have a complex of symptoms that define the existence of a disease or undesirable condition (a syndrome). According to YG (a) the contradiction of mind “Ambivalence” is a Syndrome (b) The Eritrean people are affected by the condition called “Dejen’s syndrome”. As always, YG derides conventional theoretical concept and goes to make his own theoretical construct. I will try to show his lack of theoretical concept as I continue by exposing his naturalistic fallacy.

Anyway, why did the “bold heroic” Dejen show ambivalence? Aside from the aforementioned, the inherent existence of ambivalence within each of us in our thought process, be it in recessive or dominant trait, Dejen has one big factor that put him in the state of ambivalence. The environment he grew up and the political doctrine in which he was cultivated (which is still his real world to him) versus the crimes that fell on him for fifteen years by the regime/system, which made him see new potential future Eritrea – both are conflicting in his thought process. As a result, he inevitably requires an ample time to sort out and reconcile it. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with Dejen the hero who broke the doors of his prison cell and freed himself. Once his passive rebellion transformed to active rebellion, his ambivalence will fade away, and he will know concretely that his enemy that is responsible for his imprisonment, and the state sponsored repression. I am optimistic that Degen will soon understand the ubiquitous layers of violence by the regime that will constitute the terrain upon which justice seekers navigate, on how to change the precarious existence of our people. Degen surely should come beyond inhibiting normative codes (the restrictions as social normative) that restrict the desire to live beyond the confine of restricting norms.

Ambivalence Isn’t A Syndrome

By virtue of its medical implication the word “syndrome” is approached by socio-psychological construct and requires rigorous and standardized of research. Of course diagnostic tests have their own structural and functional procedure that will objectify the various symptoms by providing diagnosis, based on concrete, factual, obvious, solid, objective, substantial assessment accompanied with data. Unfortunately, YG used the word “syndrome” for his political construct. According to his explanation, ambivalence is a syndrome, hence the title of his piece “Dejen’s Syndrome: The Contradiction of Eritrean Mind.”

YG’s departure to elaborate Dejen’s ambivalence as a syndrome was solely coined to fit his perceived idea in order to extend it to the Eritrean mind. His argument is conceptually wrong and philosophically flawed, right from his point of his departure. Ambivalence is a single symptom or signs of having contradictory view, or thought at the same time. The question to YG is: when did a single sign, or symptom become a syndrome? Syndrome is the multiple of symptoms that characterize a “Condition”. In other words, syndrome is a condition and ambivalence is a symptom. Therefore YG’s thesis is conceptually wrong and it derides conventionally accepted theory.

YG’s argument is hardly evident or cohesive to interpret ambivalence as syndrome or to try to find an apparent equivocation between ambivalence and syndrome. His argument was definitely and purposefully elliptical in nature. Each of YG’s essays do not stand by themselves to explain the particular topic (subject) he chooses to write about. Since he always tries to weave it with history of Ghedli, even the few of his essays which could be worth reading lose their message in the deep hate of Ghedli and his desire for union with Ethiopia.

YG has fallen into naturalistic fallacy which says, anything that happened in Ghedli will happen in the current situation of Eritrea, or anything that happened in the current Eritrea was the result of Ghedli, equating moral properties with natural properties. At least philosophically it isn’t always true.

Ambivalence: Pushkin Vs Degen

We saw both Alexander Pushkin and Degen showing ambivalence, this way or the other in their respective history. Pushkin was defending Tsar Nicholas-I while supporting the ideal of freedom of the Decemberist revolution. He was a preeminent writer for the Soviet establishment (the nobles) as well as for the dissidents. He was proud of his noble lineage while he was involving with the underground liberal revolutionary group.

Unlike Pushkin, Degen’s ambivalence was subtle–an invisible influence of the past. While he was disgusted by the unknown reasons of his imprisonment, he was still hoping, if somehow his appeal reaches to the desk of high ranking officials of the PFDJ that he will be free from the jail. This writer will agree with YG’s account on two things (a) he saw the “image of malevolent and benevolent” leadership coexisting in Degen’s mind, and (b) he saw ambivalence and an act of heroism coexisting on Degen’s actions and explanations. The problem with YG is, when the “state of discordant mind” as he put it, and what this writer prefer to call it “ambivalence of thought” boldly characterized it as “Degen’s Syndrome.” This writer is challenging YG to see any parallel between Degen’s ambivalence and the preeminent Russian poet/writer/author Alexander Pushkin as I have shown above. I wonder how YG will compare and contrast the ambivalence of the two notable figures in their own way within their respective societies and if he will characterize Pushkin’s ambivalence as “Pushkin’s Syndrome.”

Diagnostic Research: YG Vs. Chenkhov

In 1890 Chekhov visited the Russian Penal Colonies in Sakhalin Island. Sakhalin Island was known for the hard labor convicts confined there, and who once serve their sentence were never allowed go back to Russia [11]. Chekhov made a systematic survey of the Russian community in the island and compiled the demographic data of them. There were around 10,000 convicts and exiles living in the island (similar to the number of political prisoners in the current Eritrean prisons). He made quantitative data, social and economic analysis of the prisoners and exiles, and studied the horrendous prison conditions that illustrate the morbidity and mortality of the convicted prisoners in the island [12].

YG is undoubtedly one of our prominent writers Eritreans should be proud of. But his weakness he is always seen immersed or plunging himself into unstudied projects to make a political argument. Unlike Chekhov, YG has failed to make studies and researches to substantiate his argument.

Since YG was addressing the socio-psychological condition of Eritrean mind, a writer like me expects from him assessments of some basic diagnostic studies strictly based on symptoms (subjective experience) and signs (objective observation) to determine the diagnosis and prognosis of the condition that he called “Degen’s syndrome.” When we seek a diagnosis we also seek prognosis said Dr. Michael Cheikin. Because prognosis is a prediction of what is to come based on the knowledge. In short, diagnosis is a general pattern which exhibits extraordinary variability when it comes to the individual subject or group subjects. YG failed to show the structural and functional procedure of his diagnosis. Furthermore, his assessment is not even helpful to make conditional probability with its inverse probability to determine the conversion errors. YG doesn’t have any empirical data and methodological approach of study for his claim and his diagnostic reasoning are without data and doesn’t hold water.

Conclusion

I adore thinkers and philosophers who grease their mind with creative and critical thinking to shape new ideas and new perspectives. While thoughts need action for validation such as review of literature, data collections and statistics, then actions without quantitative and qualitative determination will not bring a correct diagnosis and results. YG’s “Degen’s syndrome” failed to follow a structured scientific research to validate his writing and determine the quantitative and qualitative determination of his result, “The Degen Syndrome.”

John Steinbeck in his speech upon receiving the Noble Prize in literature in 1962 had this to say: “In the endless war against weakness and despair, there are the bright rally-flag of hope and emulation.” YG and other writers should be reminded that there are many prominent writers they could emulate and fight their weaknesses. Pushkin and chekhov are some of the many we could emulate.

Certainly, our explosive forces of knowledge should be creative for good with choices governed by conscience and sound judgments. The failure and the glory and the choices rests on us. The test of responsibilities and the success on what we do is right on our hand also. Can we prevail? Anything we do should be for no rhyme or reason other than to give hope, courage and peace of mind to our people. And we shouldn’t indulge with unforced errors by thrusting ourselves into unfamiliar territories to our knowledge. Does Degen’s ambivalence give YG a kind of schadenfreude? I will leave that to my readers to make up their mind.

References

[1] E .B. White, “On Paris review interview,” 1969
[2] David Boles, “The role of writers in society”, Feb 29, 2008
[3] Greene, Maxine “The dialectic of freedom”, May 1, 1988
[4] Joseph Dresen, “Chekhov: The role of authors in Russian society” Kennan   institute, Oct, 2007.
[5] Greene, Maxine, “Releasing imagination: Essay on education, arts, and social change”, San Francisco, Jossey-Bass Publisher, 1995
[6] Baumgartner L. M. “Fundamental theory and set of assumptions”, Columbus, Oh, information series No 392, 2003 pp – 2, Ohio State University.
[7] Ibid (the dialectic of freedom by Greene).

[8] G. Hegel, Soch. Vol-6, Moscow, 1939, pp= 309-310
[9] G. Hegel, soch. Vol-5, Moscow, 1937, pp – 33
[10] Ibid (Soch, vol-5, Moscow, 1937).
[11] Andrew, Dawson “Chasm of sorrow: Anton chekhov and Sakhalin, 2012.
[12] Book review, “Chekhov, Anton, P: A Journey to Sakhalin”, appeared in poetry nation review, Manchester, 1994.

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  • Kokhob Selam

    you hate your own self bother. do you think you are from Europe or US ? do you think you are an Arab. non count you my friend. none. you are Habesha my friend, you can’t change your hair but you may try, you can’t change your face color. you can’t change your blood. I will agree with you we are Eritreans and they are Ethiopians. that is like Saudi and Bahrain they are Arabs. if you go to Jeddah they will call you “Ya Habeshi ” even some think Habeshi is a slave. I am Habesha and proud of it. for your information I don’t even care about the small things politicians created. you keep talking about Badme, the land I claim to be an Eritrean land in 1978. what is on that now? what if today Ethiopians leave Badme, are you going to create rich nation , when you didn’t do it now having 1200KM. sea coast ?

    Nitiricc, you and your likes are responsible for all the sufferings we face by supporting the childish group in Asmara. that is like doing it yourself not the badewin in Sinai. if you didn’t support PFDJ, our young generation could have lived in peace. wake up!!!

    • KS
      Trust me you as A Muslim person you can love and kiss Ethiopia all you want but you have no place in Ethiopia. It is true, so save your habesha crap to you and your inferior friends. You should have been the first person to call for Eritrean unity and Eritrean equality. But it is your right to kiss and love Ethiopia. Before you move to Ethiopia ask the rights and the treatments of Muslims in Ethiopia. Or else you can change your name to Gbre-something and switch your religion to Christianity and then mey be. Till the Amhara and Oromo come after you that is.

  • Kokhob Selam

    Ok,Horizon and all it is time to have cup of Habesha coffee in Jebena Amharic poem before Saturday music program starts ..INQUTATASH .

    • Dear Kokhob Selam,
      I admire your broad knowledge of the Amharic language and our culture. You are a person who fits perfectly well
      both to the Eritrean and the Ethiopian world. I really enjoy your beautiful poems. Please, do not forget to compile them for the future generation.

      Speaking about coffee, it is sometime now since I developed a taste for filtered Yirgacheffe coffee, which I get from the local Starbuck coffee shop. I came to know about it by chance. They grind the roasted beans and sell it. The taste and aroma is simply superb.

      • Kokhob Selam

        Thank you brother.That is how it should be. this is my plan of showing people how much we are connected. people to people ignoring the negative history and taking our positive which is more than negative to the future generation. let us make it easy for our children to communicate. let our languages survive the globalization era.

  • Kokhob Selam

    PFDJ’s support to Ethiopian opposition is tactical. The two brotherly people need real strategic relation. this can be materialized by doing it people to people free of any past differences what so ever. PFDJ’s support to opposition will only complicate things as it is only done for advantage of one party. see http://mereja.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=86538&p=526110#p526110

    • Rodab

      Kokohbe,
      I know you know it is a two-way traffic. Both regimes support opposition groups.
      singling out one side doesn’t help much, does it?

      • Kokhob Selam

        I don’t come to the conclusion if there is support of this type from Ethiopian government. I understand some opposition are there in Addis. so far both the Eritrean opposition and Ethiopian government are careful on this type of temporary relation. for me Ethiopian government is better than Eritrean government and the Eritrean opposition are far better than Ethiopian opposition on the way they see things.Example Eritrean government still is using his old style and works direct active in damaging Ethiopia – Ethiopians have proved it to us. Ethiopian government seems more matured. we didn’t hear still single person sent to Asmara to destroy anything. and we didn’t hear Ethiopian government using Eritrean opposition against Ethiopian people.

        so a “two-way traffic ” but one following handling and hurdling the traffic rule while the other is not because he don’t know how to drive.

        • Rodab

          My believe is regardless of to what degree, it is better for the two countries to stay out of the other’s internal affairs. It only complicates matters. I hope that is your view too.
          Now kindly remind me what the Ethiopians proved to us. What are you referring too?

          • Kokhob Selam

            dear friend it is your view. I believe change comes within while getting support can give good result if handled properly. I heard some Eritrean opposition saying that getting support from Ethiopian government is serving only the Ethiopian government. when I see it , I notice it is because they don’t have confidence on themselves. and in fact they didn’t move a single stone so far fighting PFDJ. first is to be sure of your own party and this is what the opposition missing. they want just to change without action and some even look to me are not that far from the ideology of PFDJ. if not my friend why they keep in talking “enho feres eneho meda”

            See, I completely don’t believe Sudan as starting point Sudan is simply open field for politicians who don’t follow their original ethics. if you can’t sale laddies, you will have to forget Sudan in opening your office.

            you may have to start inside by awaking people which we are doing it now. but sudden changes are dangerous. while working on that having your background in Ethiopia is not wrong I believe. I don’t support the idea that says Ethiopians will take over Eritrea through opposition. self trust is a must.

            regarding what Eritrea have done inside Ethiopia, you may have forgotten or you are not following PFDJ has sent bombs several times even one time to the building of AFRICAN UNION. What a shame !! I don’t really know what type of mind is that? and for me I don’t need much evidence as I have seen them doing it to us in Sudan. People use to come from field sent by EPLF to kill Eritreans in Khartoum and Kesela . Never change, it is the same and still are doing it. Kidnapping who ever oppose them is politics for PFDJ.

  • Asmerom

    Araya
    You are just crossing the line by blindly blaming our courageous writers whom you don’t know . Don’t live by your poor assumption just do your part and let others do their part the way they see it . Accusing people without any iota of evidence shows your weakness . If you are capable just honestly debate the issue at hand if you can’t just be a student and learn from those who can .

  • Haile Zeru

    My last word to T.Kifle.

    Promise I will not respond again.

    When a child is born his/her brain is full of matter but nothing else. She does not have the
    historical baggage her parents endured, enjoyed or went thru. The only reflexes
    etched in her DNA are those of sucking (milk) and crying for whatever discomfort,
    which elicits help from others, i.e. parents.

    I wish children could inherit the sum knowledge of their ancestors at birth and add more to it
    in their life time and pass that too, to their children. Unfortunately nature (God) did not make us like that.
    We have to learn everything anew, dot for dot and so on for the next generations.

    I think by now you know where I am heading. An Eritrean child is made just like that. What
    a surprise!!!

    Because our ancestors passed thru untold experiences which include colonialism we do not
    come with twisted (damaged) identities. We do not come talking Italian or with
    (golden!!!) spoons in our mouth. Even Italian kids do not have that luxury.

    The further time elapses between colonial time and in independence time, the more the colonial traits
    (so to speak) are forgotten, washed away. Now it is almost 70 years since Italian
    colonial era ended. That is at least 3 generation. Not all that lived during
    that era are dead, but the present generation is the grand, grand generation of those that lived during that
    time. Do you think our identity is still hinged to that era? What about the Italians? Do you think the Italians of today, think
    and act like the Italian of that era? Here I am giving you hints that show your assertions are way overblown, offensive as much as Issayas’ and Drue’s.

    The war and the rest are explainable by other means and theories. Even though you are
    dismissive about the damages Ethiopian rulers including Wayane did to Eritreans
    in the present and past centuries in comparison to the Damage Issayas has done
    to Ethiopia in the last war.

    In fact in one of my answers to one of your posts I said that if the majority of
    Ethiopians think like you the future will be as bleak as the past.

    • Mahmud Saleh

      Haile zeru
      Please come as often as possible. Thanks.

    • Rahwa T

      “”,,,Even though you aredismissive about the damages Ethiopian rulers including Wayane did to Eritreans
      in the present and past centuries in comparison to the Damage Issayas has done
      to Ethiopia in the last war.”

      “Yigermenalo” dyu zbele eti derafay-

    • Kokhob Selam

      Brother,
      I wish you keep participating and replying. you see, we are here to learn and clear things that create mess from our mind. No one is completely perfect although we may have people who think better than the other. And what is going now is a kind of transaction to better future. I learn that change of thoughts from negative to positive side is possible even before having power of any type including governing the country. I think debating and discussing on this type of site is like preparing for any development that can happen. in fact this type of open discussions can create new development in both countries. we both Ethiopians and Eritreans has changed a lot from our previous views. we have tough and rough debates with Horizon at the beginning. eventually me and Horizon are coming closer. I start to see Horizon don’t have problem except to see the two brotherly people living side by side in peace and united. He learn from me that the past journey was a must and is history already.

      I don’t know if you agree with me that the past didn’t benefit both Ethiopia and Eritrea. I hate shouldering historical mistakes to one side. I am completely convinced Ethiopians were victims of their leaders and we had people from Eritrea who serve the king. If we were suffering, the man who fought against us was also suffering equally by the decision made by the leadership of Ethiopia and those who chose Unity with Ethiopia without allowing our people decide their choice.

      today our case is over when comes to independent. we have to assure our Ethiopian brothers that we are still one people putting aside the old history. we should work together for benefit of both sister countries. I use to say Eritrea is a nation like Kenya and Sudan and should be seen the same. not to that level, we are very attached Habesha people and after visiting Sudan and Arab countries I learn I am Habesha and Ethiopians are very much attached to us. I learn that in this world no single human is closer than Ethiopians to me- in fact equal to Eritreans I love Ethiopians. Let us create this feeling among us. I mean we should work very hard to use the chance of our common identity.
      Keep coming and discussing please.

      • abrham

        Dear KS

        I always admire you, a real man for peace and reconciliation. Keep it up!!

        • Rahwa T

          Hi Abraham,
          Whenever I read any comment from KS, I feel that it is very genuine and nothing artificial. It just goes to my heart. May God bless him.
          “Zer’h yibarek KS!”

  • INKUTATASH! From Habesha children to the Awate family.

    Info for you. “We are not interested in your past blunders, in who did what or who said what”. What do you have to say for our future, which all of you screwed it for us, out of a big dose of arrogance? We are more interested in food, education, healthcare and a bright future for us and our children, unless of course you are not interested in your posterity. Let’s hope that 2007 will give the older generation bigger hearts.

    This is a message from Abebech, Asgedom and the rest. You might have forgotten; we are the children of Ethiopia and Eritrea.

    • INKUTATASH!

      • Dear administrator,
        In the first comment, I tried to post the picture of Habesha children carrying Meskel flowers, and as it seems, i have failed. Please delete the comments. Thank you.

        • Kokhob Selam

          INKUTATASH to all and My friend Horizon.

          you remind me my childhood days Horizon do you remember our old debate days on this site? May be I was the first man to say something about your name “admas and ke admas ba’shager”. and how the the Horizon looks during INKUTATASH in Habesha land. I am living in memory of that sky and it’s color far away.

          I feel I am one of the children above picture as I use to do it. if culture is the way people live and the base is on the land we are one people – no mater what division we made we can’t change our oneness . INKUTATASH my brother, INKUTATASH .

          • My dear friend, Kokhob Selam,

            The great thing about this pic is that it reminds us of our childhood. Every Inqutatash celebration, girls sing and go from house to house, and boys paint flowers on paper, Mesqel flowers being the main theme, and give them to friends and relatives. In return, they would give us some money, and with the money we collected, we would buy school items for the new school year.

            On the day of the celebration of the finding of the True Cross, we made crosses out of the Mesqel flowers, put them at the top of a branch of tree we took with us to the site of the celebration.
            As you know very well, the pile of wood is
            put on fire, and everybody runs around it singing.

            In the early morning of the next day, we would rush to the site, make a cross on our foreheads with a burnt pιeace of wood, and we would take home a half-burnt branch, which we put at the front of the house.

            Mesqel flowers dress the mountains and valleys of Ethiopia and Eritrea at the end of the rainy season. How can one forget that gorgeous scenery of clear blue sky and green and yellow landscape.

            Dear Kokhob Selam, it seems that we have lost our innocence and our paradise. Let us hope that it is not permanently lost.

            INQUTATASH to you too, my friend.

          • Kokhob Selam

            sure Horizon sure, we are not going to lose our basic culture that most of the countries have lost. And , the ethics of life that we own both is our precocious diamond that we will let it shine in the world. we will make new unique history teaching the world unity is possible after all those past wars. unity until the two flags become just symbols but not more than that.

    • Amanuel Hidrat

      Dear Horizon,

      Excellent, I can’t admire you enough. By the way you nickname really matches to your view. Look how Mr. T. Kifle is dragging us to the old tricks of Ethio-Eritrean politics. The aim of our debate should be to bridge peoples and nations of our region to give them hope of peace and prosperity. If our debate is not to advance to give hopes for the kids on the pics and elsewhere in the horn of Africa what good is to debate for the sake of debate. Thank you for reminding for those who are dragging the debate of good wills and hope in this website of reconciliation.

      regards,
      Amanuel Hidrat

  • Hayat Adem

    Dearest Haile Zeru, Dearest Kifle, and remaining dearests,
    This should be the time we should be feeling we left the war and its ugly vocabulary behind and worry about the future. Don’t you think guys we are extending those very low moments of these fraternal peoples and from there clouding the future unnecessarily? What we lost is lost forever. We’ll be losing more if we are not smart enough to forgive each other and move on with a sense of vigor not to risk the future as well. Anything of the past, if it is not standing on your future way, say ma’lesh!
    I once heard a story about a wise Zen monk, may be I am bringing it here for the 2nd time. The Monk was walking with his other friend, also a monk, of course. On their way, they encountered a young girl troubled to cross a river to the other side. The 1st Monk moved to help and carried her across the river and dropped her on the dry bank. But his friend was very offended by the act of the Monk. He thought a Zen-monk rule was breached as it says no close contact with a woman. He struggled to let it go but he thought it was too serious to let it go. After they walked for 5 minutes or so, he brought it up. “You know what you did was un-Monk and un-Zen thing. It breaks the rule and the ethics we willingly entered. You shouldn’t have carried that girl.” To which his wise friend said, “Yah, I carried that girl for 10 seconds and left her there. But I can see, you are still carrying her. Which one of us is wrong?”.
    Kifle, help us navigate for bigger roles. Things happened in the war, both ways by the way, except that DIA ignited it to happen. There is no pint in doing an inventory of whose crime was worse. Look what DIA is doing to his people. If he can do that to his people, you shouldn’t be surprised to the extent he went to do ugly things and he brainwashed his supporters/media to say and do bad stuff. But the worst mistake will be if we let it happen again. Lets build our nations to be economic and peace partners. In that case, there is a zero chance of war foolhardiness. Lets look forward with a positive. The wrongs of the past are better be handled at institutional levels if they need be. Lets not try solve in this kind of forums. Forums like this are best used for constructive and future oriented discourses.
    Hayat

    • Abinet

      Dear Hayat
      This is what I like to hear for our new year.
      Let’s remember this throughout the year.
      Thank you . You are always the best !

  • Hayat Adem

    Dear Awatistas,
    Time for quiz. Consider the x-axis values to represent the number of years of independence (Eritrea), and the y-axis to value a prominent awatista on how she/he has been evolving/devolving to be reasonable, consistent, principled, emphatic, fair, truthful, constructive, honest and forward-looking (positively solution oriented) in the quality scale of 0-8 (8 the best possible), in his/her overall views and actions in political matters of Eritrea. In that context, I’ve 4 prominent participants in mind when I draw this graph. If you can read my mind, tell us how I (Hayat) would assign each graph to individuals from the list below. I made the list ten to make it a bit harder for you but you are to pick only 4, one for each colored line. Remember, it is not you who is judging people here, it is Hayat.

    The List: Sal, Saleh Johar, Amanuel, T. Kifle, Papi, Natricc, Araya, Serray, HaileTG, Rodab

    • Rodab

      Lol Hayat,
      In your list, there are only 4 people with actual names. Meaning, their long-held positions or views or evolutions are potentially known and you can somehow relate it to the number of independence years. The rest of the crowd? I would’ve thought your familiarity is worth of a few yrs, at best.
      Now your graph suggests you know all 4 for at least 10 years.
      Based on the above analysis, the four known men are your candidates.
      But I think only 1, possibly 2 of them are actually in your list of four. Whats going on?

      • Hayat Adem

        Actually, I’ve four in mind, and I’ll let them be known to you with their matching graphs (according to me). But, I wanted know if I have others who have similar lens as mine first. Please go ahead and start it…

        • Rodab

          Oh yeah you have four, I understand that. But only one or two are from those with real names.
          Anyway, if I have to guess from some of your previous comments,
          – blue is Sal
          – Hailat is with the sharp rise (is that black?)
          – red is Nitricc, and
          – that other one is Aman.

          • Hayat Adem

            Is this Haile Zeru or Rodab? I think it is Rodab. The first above with the question Rodab. On this follow up, it says Haile Zeru. And Haile has alreaydy a go above. Is Disqus tricking me here? But, the matching try is great. Thanks

    • Kim Hanna

      Selam Hayat,
      .
      Here it is:
      Red is easy………………N…
      Blue is Johar…2nd choice Serray.
      Dark color going up line is T.Kifle.
      Brown up and down line Sal.
      .
      I just prey the next question is not why.
      .
      K.H

      • Hayat Adem

        Selamat HZ,
        Thanks. Interesting matching. you will not have to deal with the why

        • Semere Andom

          Hi Hayat: I think it is easy. According to Hayat Adem
          First Nitricc and Araya evolution cannot be captured, no tool to capture it yet, both remained microscopic 🙂

          Evolution according to Hayat;-):
          Red: Sal
          Blue: SJG
          Dark: Haile TG
          Brown: Emma

    • House of Stark

      Hi Hayat.
      black = Serray ( I don’t Know what position or view had before the war therefore, I’m putting him from the present point of view) and HTG
      blue = Amanuel
      Brown = Saleh Johar
      Red = Sal

    • Hayat Adem

      Thanks for responding on this. The four guys I picked for recognition are: Saleh Younis, Saleh Johar, Nitricc and HaileTG. It may sound very rough, and it has limitations as it is an individual impression, I was just looking for four trend representations: 1) staying high consistently (my high regards to Gashe Saleh, 2) reluctance to come forth out of rejectamenta despite great capability (sorry Sal, it is that I’m expecting better of you), 3) enlightened upward surge ( I’m absolutely delighted with maturity and speedy involvement you are soaring high) and 4) involuntary dormancy (you can be excused Nitricc so far as this is just happening to you, and you may not know it).

      Gashe Saleh had his highest roof during the war as he stood out for “the good and the right “clear off the pack. He never faltered from that high ground but the lowest floor (still at 5.5/8 was because some temptations were observed somewhere in 2007-2009 that he was trying to influence the opposition movement by sensationalizing nationalism.
      Sal bottomed up from his war rhetoric during the G-15 crisis and soared high until he came with his weird democratic coup theory.
      Haile’s enlightenment and lazier-boom focus on identifying the very problem and the exact solution is unparallelled.
      Well, Nitricc is consistently being Nitricc and he will never be able to un-Nitricc himself.

      Hayat

  • Hayat Adem

    Dear Awatistas,
    Time for quiz. Consider the x-axis values to represent the number of years of independence (Eritrea), and the y-axis to value a prominent awatista on how she/he has been evolving/devolving to be reasonable, consistent, principled, emphatic, fair, truthful, constructive, honest and forward-looking (positively solution oriented) in the quality scale of 0-8 (8 the best possible), in his/her overall views and actions in political matters of Eritrea. In that context, I’ve 4 prominent participants in mind when I draw this graph. If you can read my mind, tell us how I (Hayat) would assign each graph to individuals from the list below. I made the list ten to make it a bit harder for you but you are to pick only 4, one for each colored line. Remember, it is not you who is judging people here, it is Hayat.

    The List: Sal, Saleh Johar, Amanuel, T. Kifle, Papi, Natricc, Araya, Serray, HaileTG, Rodab

  • Rodab

    Good point, destaa.
    I gave you a vote:-)

  • Haile Zeru

    Hi Semere Andom

    The quote of the century, “If you are going through hell keeping going” is my quote of the day.

    Thanks Sem

  • saay7

    Selamat Hayat and Welde

    Thanks for your patience, Hayat, I am glad I extended my “politics-free zone” from Saturday to Sunday. Awate.com was on fire all weekend. I will answer your questions and then quickly pivot to Welde.

    1. What is a cult? The dictionary says that it is “a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object”; “a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.” or “a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.” You and I had a discussion of YG’s message and since he has never presented it concisely (except for the absurd “People First”), I took the trouble of creating a 7-point executive summary. Your reply to it was classic cultism along the lines of: “I am not agreeing that this is his point, but if that is his point, I agree with it and if it is not I disagree with it.” So, no, I don’t think you are able to think clearly on the subject of YG. Somebody could write a 10-page essay denigrating everything about Eritrea and you would have nothing to say, but let someone say something remotely critical about YG and you will jump in:) Just this week, Eyob called Eritreans a people with a “fake identity”, and T.Kifle called the mainstream Eritrean elite as “irreparably damaged.” And these two are our most sensible Ethiopians on this forum and the biggest fans of YG. I missed the part where you criticize them for assaulting your identity as fake and for calling you and all your people “irreparably damaged.” But, if I had said that about YG, you would be all over awate, wouldn’t you?

    2. What do you mean by “nobody I know, or read have ever pushed the idea of writing-off of Eritrean independence?” Are you serious? YG and all YGists have one thing in common: a reluctant acceptance of the State of Eritrea. It is like loving a child whose circumstance of birth was tragic (rape, incest.) You may feel sorry for the people, but your don’t admire them. Let an Eritrean write an essay entitled “Why I Love My Country” and a YGists would admonish him/her for arrogance and how it is this attitude that got us to war.

    3. What I mean by Eritrea-haters is just that: they don’t like the State of Eritrea. They may empasize with the people, they may celebrate the people’s cultures, traditions and character (when they are not insulting them for not waging a revolution right this very minute), but they do hate the fact that it was carved out by Italians, they do hate the fact that it was not allowed to be part of Ethiopia, they do hate the revolutionaries who started the revolution (not just for their excesses, but for even starting the revolution “prematurely”)

    4. But, Hayat, “truth” is not enough in launching a movement for positive change. You need a lot more. Moreover, what passes for “truth” in a cult is—whether that is the PFDJ cult or the YG cult–is laughable outside the cult:)

    saay

    • saay7

      Selamat Welde:

      Sorry, I forgot to include you in my reply…

      There are now at least two narratives about Eritrea. One, put out by the PFDJ, is as follows:

      (1) Eritrea was doing really well, developing politically, socially, economically from 1991-1997. Then, those who saw the development model we were using as a threat to their interest of creating crippled African nations, persuaded one of their satellite states, Ethiopia, to wage an offensive war on us in 1998. Since then, they have been trying to get what they couldn’t get militarily by other means including denying us the right to demarcate our land in accordance to law, including sanctioning us without evidence, including enticing our youth to abandon their country and leave it defenseless. But we the government and the people are capable of persevering, we remained committed to charting an independent path, we have nobody else except ourselves, and we shall overcome overwhelming odds against us as we have done many times before.

      The other, put out by us in the Opposition, is a cacophony of narratives:

      (2) Eritrea….speaking of Eritrea, why is it even a State? Did we even have to wage an armed struggle and what took us so long? Yes, Eritrea is being governed by the world’s most brutal dictatorship…it is difficult to even call it a dictatorship, what is it exactly? I think it is an ethnocratic regime…it is actually a regime of christian highlanders who are communists…well, not exactly communists…but definitely gangsters, a mafia with no clear ideology except thuggery and muggery and…definitely atheists who are not even Eritreans, I think they are all Tegaru, yes, that is it, no dekebat anywhere there…these dekebat chauvinists atheist communists mafiosi thugs simply worship money…there is no “they” actually, it is a party, no it is one man, no it is a regime…if we could only remove them, all of them, some of them, many of them, a few them…then we can have democracy and human rights, in accordance with an ethnic federal system…no a regional federal system…well, it should be unitary, we will talk about it in due time.

      In its communication, the Isaias regime follows this formula: (a) Focus on emotions; (b) remind people constantly of previous successes; (c) create a cult-like environment*.

      Does that work? Let’s consult with this expert: it aligns perfectly with his “How To Motivate People: 4 Steps Backed By Science” article which appeared on Time Magazine on April 4:

      http://time.com/53748/how-to-motivate-people-4-steps-backed-by-science/

      saay

      * Hayat, if you are reading, that’s why I fear the YG cult:)

    • Hayat Adem

      4) a lot more but centered about and around the truth, not leaving the truth.

      3) i would have loved to see “Eritrea-haters” removed your word bank. it is not true and it is repulsive in intellectual discourses.

      2) Yg, ygists: have one thing in common: a reluctant acceptance of the State of Eritrea. That is your opinion, not a fact. What is reluctance and what is the opposite? ” It is like loving a child whose circumstance of birth was tragic (rape,incest.) You may feel sorry for the people, but your don’t admire them”- Wow, this is even worse. how would you prove that? that is one way to ask you. but why would you even say that? in a civilized community, a child is a child no matter what, even if born of such a situation, it remains a child and as such she deserves to be loved unconditionally. any country is as good as it is good for her people. citizens may think it is worth dying defending the country they love. or else, one may think her country is too hellish, and decide to run away from it. when it is a badly governed country. you can even switch allegiance and change your citizenship, and that has never been counted as a crime, or even as taboo. it is all about people, including children of the kind you said you would be very reluctant to love them. the answer to your irritation about the “weird’ summary “people 1st” is everywhere in your write-ups.

      1) now you are changing the rules. i thought the conventional rule to judge and be judged by what one writes and writes about, not by what one doesn’t write and does not write about. if you accuse me of not doing enough or the least on defending eritrea, i could really the same about you from a different angle. God forbid, you are not pushing the sense of patriotism to come from fending off yg and ygists, or kifle or eyob or abinet. i addressed my view on how i see eritrean identity at length. it is just we see it differently, and that means we defend it differently, and that means none of us has the monopolistic austerity to claim the license of interpreting such stuff.
      now, how do i say in a respectful way that i found you spinning (lying could be a disrespectful word) in this quote: “I took the trouble of creating a 7-point executive summary. Your reply to it was classic cultism along the lines of: “I am not agreeing that this is his point, but if that is his point, I agree with it and if it is not I disagree with it.” you were crying for yg’s summary. when unheeded you went ahead and summarized it for yourself and the rest of us. and then you went ahead and attacking those summary thoughts and inviting us if we could meet you there. i had two choices: either to endorse the summary as was ignoring the slight misses, variations and omissions i felt here and there or simply assuming (or ignoring whether) those summary points represented yg, and show you the gaps of your arguments. That was advantage for you because i was simply surrendering to the talking points of your choice, and see if you could champion them to the end. the corrupt part in this quote is your statement inside the quotation that clearly stated as if i was saying that if yg said it i would agree, if yg didn’t say it, i would disagree. statements like this provoke me to be very angry…. a bit pause and fresh air and few in-hales. … a moment of cooling off…
      I.m fine now, back to you

      • saay7

        Selamat Hayat (notice salutation):

        The whole idea is to write AFTER you cool off and not TO cool off.

        If you refer to someone as having “gospeler authority”, as you did to YG, then that means you get to own everything he said about everything. (Also qualifies you for the adjective of a cultist.) By extension, that means that you share his views on the State of Eritrea: that it was deformed at birth, the fight for its Statehood originating as an idea by Islamists and Arabists, it’s fight launched by ethnic cleansers, child soldiers and an assortment of confused people all motivated by a desire to run away from Ethiopia.

        You “people first”, that’s to say YGs “People First” is weird because he spends half his time denigrating, what’s the word..people. People and what they cherish. I will agree with you if he (and therefore u because of that godpeler authority thingy) add one word before People First and it is Ethiopian People First.

        saay

      • Shum

        Hello Hayat,

        You took Sal’s provocative response personal. I get it. I’m curious why doesn’t the things he quoted from TKifle and Eyob make you snap. I mean we’re talking about “People first” here. This is an assault on our people. No?

  • The grand plan; fails, face first.
    If you want to know why all the hostilities aginst Eritrea and Eritreas by the Tigryans; well examine the map and you should have your answers.

    http://s24.postimg.org/h3hw5duad/abay_tigray_prophecy.jpg

  • Hayat Adem

    On Issues of Independence and Sovereignty (a desperate attempt from me)
    Dearest Emma, and everyone else
    I am firm on the Eritrean independence because I understand it is the only sensible and existing reality to work from, not out of believing it is the only sacrosanct chamber in the temple. Therefore, if someone comes up with an idea that contradicts the notion of independent Eritrea; as much as he would have a hard time selling it to me, I don’t see it as too cursed a line of thinking to even entertain. I don’t appreciate when reasonable people like yourself are anchored on the thought of independent Eritrea as the beginning and the end of political thought parameters or none. There are no, or should never be natural limits as such in the political options of generating best thoughts. And the thought itself or/and the physicality of independent Eritrea is nothing but a choice of a political project, as are independent Djibouti, independent Ethiopia…

    What I like about Ethiopians of this generation is their willing to venture into the entertainment of allowing people, nations or nationalities to have the option of calling it “from here on, on my own” should they decide to call the marriage off. That is about being first and foremost “people first”. Exiting and joining and rejoining should remain a political choice. I believe their article 39 has far reaching positivity as a unifying element than otherwise or than what it is commonly understood to be. What is clouding people from seeing such choices as a pure political maximization is the indoctrination their minds have been inculcated with. The one that is quickly flagged up when ever free thinkers are venturing into all political possibilities, including their revisit to ghedli and its causes is the issue of sacrifice. I declare it here that the sacrifice paid should always be honored and cherished but should never be applied as a hostage factor from considering better paths of the time. There will always be deviations in reality 1) because of hindsight considerations, as hindsight is a resource and 2) because the future is never totally married and in alignment with the past.

    But the martyrs had one thing in mind when they paid the very themselves. For they believed they were doing it for their people, us; it is only honorable and reasonable to respect them for paying the ultimate. It is their motive, intentions and dedication they showed for the “betterment of us” as a society what we need to always cherish and glorify not the facts they had, not the views they had and not the ideas they had- at the time they departed. In our earnest aspiration as a society for a better life, we should never allow ourselves to be limited within the values and thoughts of the dead (martyrs) but remain vigilantly connected to their iconic selflessness and patriotic dedication.

    We have so many ways we can make independent Eritrea better than what it is today. However, independence should not be seen more than an alternative platform for political adjustments to secure more rights, brighter future and better livelihood, for the people. While there is a need to build the nation, there is no such a thing as building identity. Identity is
    asserted, meaning it has to be there or rediscovered, not invented. Identity is shared by all generations and reflected and asserted by the current. While we should be able to comprehend our own identity without many words as inevitable and inescapable and therefore only to be borne, there is no point in making it a selling value and battle of contention.

    The most disgusting approach to identifying with our identity is the attempt of trying to rediscover it within the ghedli period or within the colonial period. Identity is a work of generational cultures and layers of relays belting around, beyond and over all times but with more added sensibilities of modern times. While independence now is the only firm reality to work from, it shouldn’t necessarily mean deletion of the past and rework on a new identity, for to try so is futile and foolish. It is worrisome when independence means a reconstruction of new identities and values- deleting the past-self (Yg’s cry). One other problem is the way we tempted to be overprotective to what we think is Eritrean identity as if it is a perishable and fragile commodity that gets destroyed at first strike from an individual thinker. The hypocrisy being re-exhibited in playing a jealous guardian of the ghedli identify, and the readiness to throw away and declare disassociation with our own age-old
    identities is amazing.

    What else is amazing? The incessant attack on good people like T. Kifle from the general Awatistas while their presence in this great AwateHouse is to be cherished and nurtured. Unwelcoming intelligent people such as Kifle is contrary to the very interaction values we want to uphold here. On the other hand, while Kifle’s Eritrean identity related questions and doubts are expressed totally within his idea-sharing right limits, his pointed accusation on both Saleh’s was unwarranted and unexplained. T. Kifle, as much as I know his ability to express himself, he didn’t justify that part adequately while he did well to my satisfaction on all others. But to see some folks uninviting to him is very discouraging. The Ethiopians here are helping us to the other side of the double mirrored window. As much as Eritrean core problems and issues emanate from Eritrea and Eritreans, they are also, one way or the other very intertwined with Ethiopians. People like T Kifle are helping broadening our perspectives. Once Eritrean problems are fixed, Ethiopia is the first among the immediate neighbors we want to set regional and economic matters with joint ventures. Staying interacting with people like Kifle and understanding Ethiopian views is critically important for now. On the reverse side, it as equally important to do the same for the Ethiopians as well. But speaking from the Eritrean perspective for now, we should feel graced and blessed with his presence, and we are not paying for that. I am sure Gashe Gadi knows this very old but telling Sudanese joke:

    khut al mizan;
    bi mejan;
    khut al mizan!
    I don’t like long feeds and I apologize on this one. My exit motto is, think and do whatever your free spirit is up to, but: show me a better Eritrea, and then I tango my hand with yours.
    Hayat

    • Amanuel Hidrat

      Hayatom,

      I have a reply to the well thought comment of yours, either waiting in the desques or thrown in its garbage can. I will wait to see what will happen to it. I saw the depth of your thought and your farsighted view beyond the Eritrean scope-issue. I don’t think we have a divergent view on the forwarding looking in regard the nations of our region.

      Amanuel Hidrat

    • Dear Hyat Adem,

      Wow, that was courageous, genuine and deeply heartfelt. I admired you as I was reading through your comment. It
      is exciting and mesmerizingly true. You tried to show us that there is not only one route, nor one way of thinking or one truth that will take Eritreans to their dreamland.

      About article 39, when we first encountered it, we were really in a shock. We called it a recipe for disintegration.
      Nevertheless, when one looks back into the past in relation to the demands of the student movements during HSI and the Derge, and the ethnically based conflicts throughout Ethiopia demanding for their rights, it was pertinent that the complaints of Ethiopian ethnic groups should have an answer for the country to have peace and prosperity. Albeit its shortcomings, Ethiopian ethnic groups for the first time felt free and equal citizens under the federal system, and article 39 at least theoretically, guarantees their exit if not satisfied with the marriage.

      After about twenty years of federalism, we do not see signs of secession, although we have seen and still see skirmishes between tribal groups due to minor problems. It means that there is a tendency to live together within the Ethiopian polity. As time goes by, with economic interdependence, trade, and when people are tied to each other through
      roads, railways, electricity, fiber optic connections, marriages etc, the diverging forces will be replaced gradually by converging tendencies. Making Tigray dependent on Oromia, Oromia on Amhara, Amhara on SNN etc, will connect them to each other and the result will be peace and prosperity.

      Finally, it is better that people understand the dangers of imposing one monolithic identity that surpasses all other ethnic identities. There is a lesson to be learnt from the past, when the tendency to Amharize Ethiopia, became a dividing issue that brought Ethiopians at each other’s throat.
      Regards.

      • destaa

        hmm…while I accept the theoretical importance of article 39, i believe your view that we do not see signs of secession does not go with what the Ogaden and Oromo ellites are currently doing. Just go on facebook and see how they are interested on Scotland referendum.

        • Dear destaa,
          OLF and ONLF and their elites do
          not represent the regional states of Oromia and Ethiopian Somali state. They do not
          have a say in the day-to-day businesses of these regional states, they cannot
          sit in the state parliament, pass a motion for a secession, and present it to the federal government for Ethiopians to vote
          on it. Simply, they are manifesting their personal wishes, which of course mean nothing.

      • Hayat Adem

        Yes, thanks Horizon. I have the same feeling about article 39.

    • Kim Hanna

      Selam Hayat,
      .
      I read the above comment with awe.
      It is in these rare moments, that I feel hope for the future generations. We do need clear headed, mature, sincere and courageous people like you to shine on the dark corridors for the rest of us.
      .
      It is truly a breath of fresh air to look into hopeful future instead of the constant rehash of the past with distorted spectacle.
      .
      I thank you.
      .
      K.H

      • Hayat Adem

        Thanks. likewise, k.h.

    • T. Kifle

      Dear hayat,
      I thank you very much for standing upright this time as you have always been. I also take note of your criticism for me mentioning the names of the two Salehs without presenting plausible explanation on the matter to your satisfaction. I really understand your concern. So let me try it now.

      Haile W/Tinsae said what he had said in its most absurd kind. I have come across the same mantra from well meaning Eritreans in this forum or elsewhere. Though my post could have been less controversial if the mention of names of the giants were avoided, I still hold that my statement is correct, nonetheless. I don’t see any genuine reason for stating “even a single Eritrean life means a lot, is precious, etc” kind of assertions even if these things are being said in their absolute terms, non referential, clean off prejudice and bigotry as Saleh Johar has said in his reply to me. In any case, it, by no means, is an act of contempt but a kind of lamentation from my part for the giants I regard so much.

      • Hayat Adem

        Dear Kifle,
        While it is totally absurd and shameful for DiruE to say that in front of many and it is sad that there weren’t as many of us openly detesting his statement, I’m not still sure as to how that burden specifically comes to the two names in particular? Have they ever been heard supporting the statement; or they are being singled out here for not coming out to despise that particular utterance? If it is the former, then I would be asking for the evidence; if it is the latter, then it is difficult (like I said in another thread to Sal) to criticize people for what they have not said in the face of mistakes done by others. In light of that, how do you see the two editors you mentioned managing a wonderful website that accommodates all kinds of opinions that at times included extreme expressions from participants of both countries?
        But, over all, you are considerately humble, mostly balanced, absolutely enjoyable and well collected man, and even more so on staying principled and consistent. I am so delighted to have known you in this forum and I encourage you to continue gracing us and help us get the other perspective.
        Hayat

        • T. Kifle

          Dear hayat,
          I thank you for the complements. Coming to your concern:
          No, they didn’t say any of the Dure’s comparison in its literal meaning. But they used to say in their comments elsewhere in the website, including some others on here by the way, that qualify the Eritrean life something precious as if other lives are that cheap and connected the dots to see the pattern. If you insist I should come up with evidence, I will try my best to sift through the Awate page(though I am not as good as saay in doing so).

          • saay7

            Selamat T. Kifle:

            Since you are going to have your hands full, why don’t you do an All Points Bulletin (APB) to all your fans, beginning with Eyob (who is really really REALLY good at excavating data) to find anything written by Saleh Gadi Johar that comes close to what you accused him of doing: that he believes Eritrean lives are more precious than Ethiopians?

            Let’s deal with your accusation against SGJ first… let’s deal with mine later. I would rather you spend the time in finding “Qalsi hzbi ertra kabey nabey” for our unfinished business about Harbeyna Tigray:)

            saay

      • Rodab

        T. Kifle and Hayat,
        I am also familiar with that infamous Haile Drue’s statement. That was said at a time when the war had just ended and the political atmosphere was extremely sensitive in Eritrea. With the war ending and peace treaty signed, the inventory of the cost of war had inevitably arrived. This generated intense friction in the leadership and resulted in the G-15 vs the President debacle which in turn drove our nation downhill. But during those times, PIA was looking for any and every excuse he can find to runaway from taking ANY responsibility. Top on his wicked tools were labeling journalists and members of the G-15 as woyane collaborators and cia agents. I would guess trying to counter Isaias’ wild accusations on one hand, and reassuring Eritreans that no one is collaborating with anyone on the other hand, may have caused that Haile Drue statement. I am sure if he was to be asked today, he would have expressed his regret. Many unflattering things were said on the Ethiopian side, too. But I don’t thing pulling out single line quotes gives the correct perspective, neither does it reflect the heat of the movement. It just brings negative feelings which I see no benefit.

        • Rahwa T

          Nice comment, Engineer Rodab. My vote!

        • Rodab, I can understand why those low self-esteem individuals can bring their stuff and dumping it in here. What I don’t get is, what is up with a man within your caliber have to go down like that? What is your motive to bring the point what you brought in here? Where you there to witness what Haile DuriE said, do whatever you are saying? Or just you are saying to appease the anti Eritrean elements in here? What don’t you ask them what they have done to Eritreans in Ethiopia at that point time? why don’t you ask them the terrible crime they have committed against your people? Why it is everything is Eritrea’s fault? I guess you need their so support too so you must appease them regardless the truth. Shame on you Rodab! I did not expect that from you.

        • T. Kifle

          Hi Rodab,
          I , a person who believe he somehow knows something about the EPLF, wouldn’t jump to conclusion just because Minister Haile said that condescending remark. Let me add another dimension to it. If you followed, by chance, Dimtsi Hafash Eritrea, the “name” accorded to us in the wake of IA’s declaration of war was “flies”. And they kept saying it mindbogglingly that what it would take for them to finish the job was just few cans of “flit” that fit the flies we are. At the time, Gebru Asrat, head of the Tigray state, being infuriated for the second time at the very thought of such attitude had his early “U-turn” on Eritrea and now he is among those sworn in to bring back Assab to its “motherland” :). His first anger had been when the provisional government of Eritrea invited him to a high level meet in Asmara while finalizing the developmental road-map charted out emulating Singapore while counting Ethiopia as the source of labor and market destination for finished products. The notion of the national service and Sawa shrouded in the mantra of “b’tsifina” is nothing but a well thought project designed to implement that roadmap “my way or the highway”. How on earth did they decided to subdue a country 20 times bigger than themselves with no history of bowing to foreign muscle flexing tells lots of the story: Eritreans are not “others”. When it comes to Eritrea, logic fails to serve the purpose because they attained their independence against “all odds”, against all earthly and heavenly conspirators. When Ethiopia said no in a fit of anger and indignation, they, mocked and mocked without let up. So, dear Rodab, Haile’s claptrap is the true reflection of the pattern of the rule than being an exception.
          .

          • Semere Andom

            Hi T.Kifle:

            Whatever IA or Haile D said represent PFDJ and not Eritreans. As you may know I believe that the G-15 suicide letter as a friend put it was too late for us, but it was by no means too little. It was the most audacious public standing up against IA in his tenure as a leader. But I also believe that IA is a criminal and it was a crime for putting them behind bars for talking. I also strongly believe that all the G-15 were the crimes partners with IA in the past. A criminal can say and define people as flies and that is why I compare PFDJ as Nazis and their young supporters as Hitler’s Youth. This is a no brainer.

            Whatever anyone of these EPLF/PFDJ said does not define Eritreans. You are defining us by the worst group in us, a group we are fighting to defeat and I suspect that you are intimately aware of this. Yes this group are loud and boisterous, but they do not define the Eritreans who were inspired to wage war against the brutal Ethiopian regimes that brutalized you (Tigray) as well. The Eritrean struggle was also an inspiration for your people to wage their own war, learn from us and win on their own terms.

            To quote the criminals and plaster what they said during the carnage as badge of shame on the face of Eritreans is very low. The same people whose utterings you somehow making us responsible for were at one point telling people not to use the use the word “agame” If you are blaming the Eritreans for not standing up to the bigoted comments during the smoldering heat of that stupid carnage while your troops were this close to Asmara is just too much. There are veterans fighters who are talking fondly about their relationship with the TPLF and how the TPLF sacrificed and helped our cause and there are those Eritreans close to me who went to the site where IA dropped bombs on the children of Tigray, paid their respect and laid of flowers, they came with a positive vibe about the people Tigray, impressed by their hospitality and hopeful for the posterity of this people that suffered so much. Why is that Eritreans are not defined by these kind people (sorry Sal, passive verb :-))?

          • T. Kifle

            Hi Semere A.

            Here is the deal. How many of the guys who once populated the old dehai converging their despicable innuendoes on Ethiopia(the victim) you know have regretted their blind submission to the war monger?I know none except YG(the most extreme u-turn ever ). Some of them are dead(RIP), some of them still rationalize and defend their actions under the cover of defending the nation., and still some more remained their ground preaching the bugaboo: Ethiopia.

            Where did you see me define the people by “these kind of people”? what do you mean by the people any way? For me this phrase, the people, as much as many of us would love mentioning it quite often for its political correctness, is misleading to say the least. The majority could be blamed in the same line as EPLF or its heir PFDJ only if they have the freedom to choose their decisions and or set course of actions which are non in Eritrea, even any country for that matter. So take the people out of our discussion, please.

            The discussion is focused on the current governing body of the Eritrean state, a product of the culmination of 30 years of armed struggle backed by full weight of the intelligentsia unconditionally who in fact should have known better. Semere, have ever given a thought what would have happened if Eritrea was the winner of the war?why the G-15 limited themselves to just the management of the war instead of challenging the tyrant on his unilateral sanction of inter-state war(I tend to believe them because the said they had no role in it) is telling. The burden is on you guys to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the pain PFDJ meted out to Eritrea is the worst of all times. And is the damage caused to my country. I hate to see it come again. That’s why I project my fears and doubts if the Eritrean elites have learned their lessons from the dark past.

          • T-K you may intimidate the likes of Semere to tell you Haile and PIA are PFDJ but not Eritreans (it does not even make sense) but it shows how much you terrorized them. Let me tell you this what ever every high government official said about you is Eritrean and I stand by it. now what? As far as every garbage you have to say. We don’t don’t to live together, you got your country and we got ours. It amazing you wondered how Eritreans foolishly thought they can subdue 20 times larger than them yet, you and your ethnic us doing just that. Aren’t you holding 80 million people, at that 20 times larger than you? Hypocrite. I know you hate me becouse of the color of my eyes and i know that.

          • Saleh Johar

            T. Kifle,
            I was in Dehai,
            Another thing: bad cops stop a driver and ask for papers hoping to find a mistake. When they can’t, they look for dents on the car and accuse them for hitting something “let me run this through the system!” When nothing comes up, they might even throw drugs in the car and arrest the inncocent driver.

            You accused me of a grave mistake. Instead of saying I made a mistake, like a bad cop, you will sift through what I wrote for years to find something to implicate me. Why? Why are you doing it? This has been my biggest disappointment and such experiences make people change their core beliefs. Kab hmaq zgebrukhas, Hmaq zemhrukha! How true.

          • T. Kifle

            Dear Saleh Gadi,

            Sir, I have said it before and I say it now that for me you are not part of the Dehai crowd. No characterization of dehai sticks on you(neither the u-turn nor the reluctance to evolve). I am very cognizant of the fact that you are one of few, few, Eritrean educators who denounced the war from the get go.

          • Tesfabirhan WR

            T. Kifle,
            The last lamenter of TPLF ideology. Do not worry, you will be also dismantled from the Ethiopian political history. You bette retire now from awate.com as you can no more cope with the waves of Eritrean dynamical politics for change. Asmarion will better serve you in the area of ethnicity and religious minorities.
            tes

          • sholla

            tes
            instead of intimidating that wise guy /t.kifle/ with your one corded rhetric why do not you engage him in a meaningful debate, or is he too advanced for you to handle??

          • Tesfabirhan WR

            Dear Moderator,

            I think I am not violating the posting guidelines. I am not saying that he should leave. What I am saying is, T. Kifle is not able to cope up with the waves here at awate.com.

            @sholla,

            His wisdom is becoming to narrow and is not coming out the caves of TPLF. We better have more current issue but look he is back to old dehai days and telling us about YG and accusing on unfounded allegations. Is he trying to exhaust our energy? I said it so many times that I am not interested on the cross-border debate and why should I deal with people like T. Kifle, Eyob, Abinet,and likes? I know they are doing their homework and I know when they interfer in my homework and this is where I come to gash their trial and stop there.

            tes

          • Haile WM

            “Dimtsi Hafash Eritrea, the “name” accorded to us in the wake of IA’s declaration of war was “flies”. And they kept saying it mindbogglingly that what it would take them to finish the job was just few cans of “flit” that fit the flies we are”

            “emulating Singapore counting Ethiopia as the source of labor and market destination for finished products”

            this two remarks are totally fabricated. It remind me what the weyane propaganda used to rally anti-eritrean sentiments within the mob… and we all know what happened after that… the looting and grabbing started.

            you might accuse PFDJ of many things but this is too low even to weyanay war-time propaganda.
            I am totally sad and disappointed that you have taken this turn to the extent of bringing the madness of the war back and using the same wild tones used back there, but if you want to convince us it was all our fault I guess you are in the wrong website and wrong forum. We have a bad situation in Eritrea because we didn’t see the evil of some of our leaders but it doesn’t mean at all the Gebru Asrats and the likes were the saints. If you want to defend them because you have the sense of belonging then i accept it because after all we are all biased.

            Regards

      • Tesfu

        Hi T.Kifle,
        Haile “Derue” is not here to defend himself, {you should show some respect} but you brought up him name to provoke, mud-slinging him and you have a gut to do it. I had read your writing, followed closely, It showed you have residue left in you toward Eritreans, is murky.
        An Ethiopian,a friend, co-worker told us a very stunning story about Meles while having lunch around table one day, when he was asked by journalist.Why are we having sugar shortage in this country? his reply was, they got the sugar’s flavor recently.

        • T. Kifle

          Hi Tesfu,
          There is nothing personal about Haile here. I am only discussing an idea by way of an example. Haile expressed what he and his comrades believed and valued. When I discuss IA, it never been an interest to me the IA as a person but IA as a man who led and shaped part of ghedli, entire EPLF and PFDJ and as a head of state who declared war on his neighbour to his peril. If it were about individuals, why should I bother to comment to begin with?
          “Murky residue”? It seems funny but I consider myself as one of those people south of Mereb who think themselves as “Eritrea-friendly.” 🙂
          So what would you make out of Meles(the dead) while you accuse me of talking of Haile(the living)?

          • Haile WM

            hi T.Kifle

            you consider yourself as Eritrea-friendly ? really ? and how you are friendly if you are labeling our identity and nationalism as one colonial-Italy derived? you should know, if you were friendly enough, that our identity was shaped not after Italian colonialism rather after the brutality of Ethiopian regimes. You should know that right after Italian and British occupation a great part of Eritreans was seeking some kind of relation to Ethiopia and you should know that, hasn’t being for the narrow mindedness of Ethiopian regimes brutality, in first abolishing the federation and then abolishing our cultural heritage by forcing us to be amhara-based Ethiopians that sparked our rebellion, you should know enough as it was that sentiment sparked the rebellion in your Tigray ( i am hopping not the himam gorebet telagaby malady of Italian inherited identity) you should know all of this my woyanay friend… Instead you took some phrases from individual speeches out of context to label all of us Eritreans as chauvinists and somehow identity confused people… all of it friendly :). I believe that our identity was given to us by the attitude of our “neighbors”, because haven’t they pushed us we probably have thought of ourselves as part of our neighbors…

            What I really have hard time in understanding, although, is the fact that you have some problem if an Eritrean man consider a fellow Eritrean’s life as the most precious thing for him (and for him alone) even in comparison to other men in the world .. I don’t understand how that affects you and all of the other “neighbors” you mention. I suppose you have a son a daughter or parents… and I suppose you value their life more than any other individual in this world, i suppose this state of mind is quite normal and it has it’s degree, you would be saddened if a fellow Ethiopian get abused in Saudi Arab, I suppose you wouldn’t feel the same for others people around the globe wouldn’t you?? Now imagine if an afghan refugee would have come to you telling you shouldn’t feel bad for your abused fellow Ethiopian because there are a lot of afgans who are going to trough the same fate and accuses of chauvinism and nationalism for feeling so.

            PS in the case of our “neighbor” Ethiopia, war was declared upon us not the other way around.
            Regards

          • Rahwa T

            Haile MW,

            “…is the fact that you have some problem if an Eritrean man consider a fellow Eritrean’s life as the most precious thing for him (and for him alone) even in comparison to other men in the world.”

            From this analogy, I would have asked you one question, but I will leave for not to fuel the already flaming arguments on this issue. It is getting boring and better if we give it a break.

          • Haile WM

            Rahwa T

            please do so. after all everything is in discussion here, even my Eritrean identity, one more question I think I can bare 🙂
            So if you feel so, please do ask your question, I will try to answer to my best and without prejudice.
            Regards

        • Tesfu
          I know there is hypocrisy to the highest order by the Tigryans and by bone-less Eritreans. Everything is Eritrea at fault. It is not healthy and very dangerous. Regarding Haile Durue; it is not T-K to blame. It is our own Rodab who went all they way to bend for the Tigryans. Rodab is who brought Haile’s name and T-K was empowered and encouraged to bring “Flit” none existence story. The story was fabricated by the Gojjame, Gebru Asrat. All I can say To T-K is becarful what you wish. The rule of engagement about to change and your “flit” story may be metalized and your 20 times size will be naturalized.
          Shame on you to the Eritreans who are kissing the filthy weyane’s rear-end. Shame on you.

          • Rodab

            Nitricc, give me a break, will ya!?
            Not that it matters but I didn’t initiate Haile Drue’s topic. T. Kifle did and Sal repeated it instead of trying to put some context to it. Then Hayat came swinging not only against Drue but on all of us for not speaking against it. But since she made it clear she doesn’t take criticism for what she didn’t say, my option was to try to put context to the statement instead of taking it literally. I was also suggesting against bringing past inflammatory statements that do not serve us good. Now our friend T. Kile has doubled down and widened Drue’s statement and other alleged negative expressions to a larger segment. That has disappointed me.

          • Rodab
            In that case I stand corrected. However; never call out on your own people. Look how the Tigryans never say a word against their criminal TPLF. Truth to be told the mine criminals of the war between Eritrea and Ethiopia are Gebru Asrat and Siye Abraha and have you ever heard from the Tigryans saying anything about those two criminals?
            Why do you think?

          • That is fine but what was the wording you find it inappropriate? Trust me I am trying to avoid this people and I wouldn’t give a flying hoot what they have to say. What gets me is the so called Eritrean so coward so gutless they don’t even stand for what is truth. Name me one Tigryan who find the gumption to apologize for what happen to Eritreans in Ethiopia. Find me one Tigryan who says this and that was TPLF mistake during the war or to turn a skirmish to all out war. Why is all the wrongs are only Eritrea and Eritreans? Trust me I am no mad at the Tigrians I am leaved at the cowarddnnes of the so called Eritreas. Reconcilable is two ways road. So, far what I see is Eritrea is at 100% fault and the more I will harden my stand.
            I had hope to have some kind of coexistence with this people and I had hoped the future to be a little bright but I am sorry; I don’t see it. You can not hand shake with unflinching fist.
            Again I don’t know what I have said but what ever I said was directed to the coward Eritreans. I am not going to back down from the truth and from defending my people becouse some inferior complexity ridden and victim mentality people say so. No!
            Do you want reconciliation? Bering the truth to open.

          • Mahmud Saleh

            Nitricc,
            Finally, peace will prevail. That’s what history tells us. The shorter and less costly the better. But as you said for a peace to be materialize,d it needs peacemakers.Sadly, these individuals who come here have shown us only the ugly face of Ethiopia. Cool down, there is no talk or normalization under pressures. We are resilient; the more we are pressured the more we get tougher, and that’s not unique to us. It’s a quality found in all oppressed and victimized peoples; we have just perfected it. I have noticed these people drag our discussions to unwanted areas and they have just controlled our pace. We would like to discuss areas more important to us; I don’t remember any Eritrean member venturing into Ethiopian politics. I just don’t get it; what is it that they want to gain by these unwarranted assaults on our very identity? I still hope they will play a positive role, it is just a hope. Just compare their top guys with our top guys exchanges, and you see we are dealing with folks who have no mannerism or protocols and no substance at all except hatred. If they despise us that much then who is acting “superior”, if they are lecturing us even on who we are, then who is acting ” superior”? I would welcome any Ethiopian and actually thought they give the forum uniqueness provided that they respect the Eritrean people. I could go after the brutal and barbaric regimes of Ethiopia, including the current one, a regime that Eritreans invested on in blood and treasure, but I will respect the history, culture and identity of Ethiopians. We chose to focus on our issues, otherwise, we can pull everything negative about Ethiopia on daily basis. So, my Ethiopian friends save your lectures and rants. You are just dragging us with your immature pontificating diatribes. Your closets are full with skeletons too.

          • abrham

            Dear Mahmud,
            If you have anything to say please engage him in a less emotional way. Please scroll upward you will see abay tigray imagined by your favorite man but you dare to say “we do not delve into you politics.” Scan all in the Internet what you see is in reverse. For that matter it is no a taboo to venture into someones politics let alone into our relatives and neighbors. Mahmuday you mentioned the ”our blood and treasure phrase”. Many of us expressed our appreciation and many wrote about it then what are your seeking for by hammering on that issue. Any way your blood and treasure are invested for your good too. You told us it is a strategy followed by your EPLF, do not complain now. The irony is you are too good at denying the investment in return. These guys in 4 killo and the people have paid untold sacrifices in your land that you or your organization will not dare to mention but defame and deflate.

    • Fnote Selam

      Dear Hayat,

      You have raised some impressive points here…Let me get straight to them one by one:-

      Paragraph 1: Agree completely.
      Paragraph 2: Mostly agree
      Paragraph 3 and 4: Agree.
      Paragraph 5 (The most disgusting approach to identity…..): I think the ghedli narrative used by you here (and so overused by YG) is so overrated. Yes, if one spends time with ypfdjites and pfdjites, one can see your point of view. But, Eritrea is not ypfdj and pfdj only. For example, my generation (Sawa generation, as some ppl would like to refer to us, I hate it, but…) hardly knows about history of ghedli (I blame the apathy developed as a result of very doctrined and dogmatic history lectures at Eri’s schools), let alone identify with ghedli identity. So, I think most Eris have moved on and I dont understand why ppl are fixated with it. Yes it is part of our history and identity (for good or worse), but we r not defined by it only….
      Paragraph 6: I can’t over emphasize the importance of having TKilfe and other Ethio’s coming over here and discuss all issues of that affect both countries. As you said we really should cherish this opportunity. Sometimes, they touch nerves and unfortunately get some angry responses, but that is to be expected, nothing special about it. I think for the most part TKifle and other Ethios are treated pretty well here.

      Having said all these, let me propose a little experiment at this point:- Can you try to go to an Ethiopian forum and kind of raise issue like whether they should have an independent country, whether (in their long history) they should have made decisions differently (including their decision to fight Italians at Adwa), whether Ogaden should be independent (or may be part of Somaliland), whether the Ethiopia in the bible is really the modern day Ethiopia etc etc. Just ask questions of those nature and let us know, what kind of responses you get. That will tell us if the way Eritreans respond to ppl who incessantly question (and teach us) about our identity and whether we r Italian slaves or not, or colonization has deformed our mentality etc is a natural (may be not ideal) kind of response or that the Eritrean response is simply irrational.

      Thank you,

      FS.

  • Saleh Johar

    Okay Eyob, Sunday is almost gone, and I learned the following from you 🙂

    1. Habesha good, non-Habesha not good.
    2. A Hareri cannot rebel and take his fight to Gonder, but a Gonderine can take his fight anywhere. Therefore, Gragn’s fight in Gonder and Shewa is an invasion because it is not his land, while Libne Dingel’s fight, wherever he takes it, is liberation.
    3. Based on logic #2, it follows that Minelik invaded Harer, Jimma, Bale, Afar and elsewhere therefore he is an invader who had no business to be outside his region.
    4. Minelik should have remained in Shewa just like Gragn should have remained in Harrer.
    5. But imperialist reasoning requires that Gragn is portrayed as a foreigner, thus an invader, while Minelik is a liberator.
    6. I am still wondering if the EPRDF components should have deposed the Derg: by God, TPLF had no business fighting in the South, East, West and center of Ethiopia according to Eyob’s logic!

    These are the lessons I learned–and I learned an additional wisdom from a friend over the phone: feliTu zdeqese, mnm ayqeseqsewm … he said half of it in Tigrinya and the other half in Amharic.

    sembetka tqeleT 🙂

    • Rahwa T

      Selam SGJ,
      What I concluded from your last comments is that your religious biasness has hindered you from looking the correct point of what Eyob, Desta and Abinet are saying. Libne-Dingle or Tedros did not fight for the expansion of Christianity in Ethiopia. Evidences are there were a number of Muslim communities in Ethiopia as long as they paid homage and tax to these and other Emperors.
      On the other hand, Gragn Ahmed was burning churches, monasteries, monks and their followers Christians as long as they fail to convert their religion. For you this cruel leader is your hero as long as his campaign is to Islamize the whole Ethiopia (irrespective how many thousands of innocent peasants were killed, how many monasteries and churches are turned
      into ashes). What we would like to see is for Christians and Muslim to live together following their ancient faiths and traditions. But your approach is very dangerous. The problem is to you what you call true history of Ethiopia is those written by Arab merchants and the rest are just collection fake stories written by some Christian European travelers or illiterate Abyssinian Debteras and chroniclers of the palace. Please come
      to you senses and we are not that fool. You cannot fool us by writing fancy statements that you were struggling all your life for the justice of humanity (unless you definition of humanity has a different meaning).

      • Saleh Johar

        RahwaT,
        I doubt if you understand the topic. It is not about me my dear, but you cannot help it. I am saying that Ethiopians should own their history, Gragn as as Ethiopian as Libne Dingel and their history is Ethiopian. And that,according to you, makes me biased!!

        Look, read your history, all your kings were violent fanatics. Don’t make it appear as if you had enlightened kings who built civilization.none after the fall of the great Axumite kingdoms. What followed was a bunch of bloody aggressors who went everywhere to enslave people and loot. Gragn is no different, he is just like any of the others. Libne Dingel or others were as violent as Gragn, only Gragn was the only Muslim to succeed to be as strong as the others. That is the only difference.

        I never said anyone was my hero, but you are saying that. Switch off your guess work, ask me if you wish but don’t guess what I believe or not. But if you want me to see Gragn different than the marauding feudal kings, I will not. They are all the same.

        Now, “Hayat Adem”, it is admirable that a Muslim girl like would think that way.

        • Hayat Adem

          Yes sir,
          any message to squeeze from the last line? Don’t assume I understand the (habesha ) qinie readily:)

        • dawit

          Another deformed logic was Yodit Gudit an ‘Ethiopian’ or a Jew? Does her religion disqualify her from being an Ethiopian heroine because she burned churches and monasteries? Why is that Yodit always portrayed in the negative and not someone who rebelled against injustices of her time by the Christian kings and church on her community? Why Gudit? and not Yodit the Ethiopian Heroine?

          Her is another legend I heard about Grange Mohamed an oral history not written by
          Arabs or Christian Travelers but the reliable oral history in most of African
          societies, that is transmited

          Gragne’s mother was a Mowlem who fell in love to a Christian priest. The priest after spending the night with his girlfriend, when he woke up he was late for his early morning church service duty. He grab the piece of cloth thinking that his headband,but mistakenly he had grabbed his girlfriends colored shawl in the dark his ‘metemtemia’. He run to his church service, and his fellow priests saw his colored ‘metemtemia’ which was that of a Muslim lady. His fellow priests angrily attached him with their ‘Mequamia and killed him for betraying his faith and desecrating their worship place with a Mowlem shawl and sleeping with a Moslem lady. The Moslem lady was pregnant from her diseased Christian priest.
          Later she gave birth to a boy and named him Mohamed. Growing up Mohamed
          learned about his father death and was very upset angry about the priests and
          the church, who murdered his father. When he became a man and powerful leader
          of the Moslem community, he took revenge against those who murdered his father on
          the church and priests.
          dawit

  • Saleh Johar

    Destaa, a fruit doesn’t fall too far from the tree, huh 🙂

    I never said Gragn’s rebellion was “only against Christian Kings”. You are claiming that. Wrong. But in the context of the discourse with Eyob, that is the part I wanted to emphasize because he highlighted his Muslim identity.

    But when Gragn rebelled against the Sultan, it was a closed power struggle–too long to detail here. As far as fighting the Abyssinian kings, he had the blessing of his people.

    As for ISIS, it seems we are out of the AlQaeda branding and here starts the ISIS branding of anything Muslim 🙂 Never mind, it is a wave that will also pass when a new crazy force emerges.

    But for your information, the Abyssinian Kings were no less than ISIS, known for their brutality. Please don’t make them look like angels which they are not. Read what Tedros did to his soldiers because they failed to defend his Tukuls in Meqdela from the British onslaught! He was the precursor of ISIS’ brutality. Not only that, for an avid reader of history, the brutality in our region is not even touched.

    • destaa

      Thank you for your response. Yes the Christian kings are horrible and I think the most radical of them is King Zerayakob. You know how he even tortured and killed his own sons. The torture he committed on Orthodox priests called Dekike Estiphanos and his Emphasis on St. MARY was horrible. And the Christian king who brought the level of destruction similar to Gragn is Amdetsion when he conquered Ifat. But still in my comparison, I have a degree and Gragn is the most Radical and bzw I also see Somalis inside Somalia and Outside are more radical than other muslims. may be related to Gragn as most have him in their social media accounts?

      • Saleh Johar

        No Destaa, don’t go down that road. If the Somalis can inherit the violent gene of Gragn, then Eyob could have inherited the gene of Amdetsion 🙂 No, that is history and we are all a product of our history, but not that extreme to trace violence to a gene of one man who lived five hundred years earlier.

        But thank you for mentioning that Ifat (so is Arguba, arabini, Hadiya, and others) is in Ethiopia, mentally, some people still dwell in the tiny land stripe of ancient Abyssinia that is no more than 20% of present Ethiopia:-)

  • dawit

    Correction quotation refers Mr. T. Kifle
    “I am analysing a
    deformed identity of the self employed as policy inputs to define the roadmap
    for a new nation that’s turned a nightmare for the entire region”
    dawit

  • Saleh Johar

    Dear Sholla,
    Thank you for your constructive comment. But please note that this Forum is governed by guidelines, anything outside that is not our responsibility. It is the guidelines that should make you feel welcome or unwelcome, not one comment here and another over there. We understand that there are repeate offenders who are becoming an annoyance to the moderators and to the forum members. They have been hampering the smooth flow of debates, please understand this is not a childcare center, we cannot do more than what we are doing–we hope they realize they are spoling the mood of everyone else. But if that continues, I believe the moderators will take decision I am sure they don’t want to take. But that should happen for the sake of the members of this forum who are held hostage by a few individuals who cannot discipline themselves.

    Thank you again, and you are welcome always. Not you an Ethiopian, we would welcome anyone even if they come from Siberia 🙂

    Cheers

  • Kokhob Selam

    I pray day and night, long and healthy life teacher Amanuel so you will serve your people more as usual.

  • Semere Andom

    Dear Emma:
    Ambivalent: the state of holding contradictory ideas and opinions about something and believe both of them and still function is most positive thing, and according to Scott Fitzgerald it is the utmost test of a guines when he said “the test of first rate intelligence is the capacity to hold two contradictory ideas in your mind and still have the ability to function” These days business management thinkers such us the University of Toronto’s Roger Martin call it interrogative thinking and use it to solve complex business problems.
    Syndrome in the other hand is a tapestry of assortment of sigs that debilitate one from taking the right action such as escaping from your tormentors at the right time. Dejen’s case is more of a syndrome and is exhibited by many former EPLF tegadalti, they escaped the brutal EPLF but they never give up on the organization they left behind. I think Dejen was reluctant to abandon the organization that he was almost born into not by conscious masochistic choice to languish in jail, but because his deeply rooted love, admiration and implicit canonization of EPLF. Granted it is easy for those of who did not go through that experience to pontificate about it, but we go back again to Ghedli and especially EPLF/PFDJ that it was never interested in developing the person, but to make people skilled in the technical fields that benefit it and to do that job and not ask other questions. When they succeeded in that EPLF was certain to accomplish their dream of destroying the nation. I actually believe that if the youth did not suffer from this syndrome they would have toppled PFDJ long time ago, but for most part they still believe that attacking PFDJ is attacking Eritrea, they erroneously believe that keeping their guns to protect themselves from the Rashaidas when they cross the border is betraying the martyrs. The tegadalti who made it to Forto reportedly refused the orders of Wedi Ali to shoot by protesting that they cannot shoot at our governmental palace.
    Many believe that crossing the border with their guns is a crime that future government will hold them accountable, but the same people sign that paper that says they have wronged their people and country and that they regret it, technically admitting to treason, If I would be in the future government I would question them on that and not on the guns. These are collections of symptoms that have debilitated us for long, I am not sure YG naming it after Dejen is accurate, but to my mind it is a remarkable syndrome.

    • I cannot think of another term for
      it other than the so-called “Captive Mind
      Syndrome” and “Stockholm Syndrome” that could partially explain the phenomenon
      of running away from a situation and not condemning the architects of the awful
      condition. These are seen sometimes in intellectuals too.
      Just trying.

  • Mahmud Saleh

    Awatistas and clubd T.Kifle

    “The identity ghedli inherited from colonial Italy is so belligerent, bogus and is culpable for the state of affairs we have been put through and the current realities of Eritrea.” (TPLF-2/neotplfite ድሕሪ ወጋሕታ), it’s T.Kifle, who else?
    Arkey T. Kifle, I was going to post some questions for you, but my thoughts developed faster than I could finish the
    questions. You may answer the questions, but we know what the answers are, so consider them before you jump to answer the need of those itchy fingers and theurge of that disturbed mind.

    1. How does an identity take shape?
    2. Doesn’t the fact that the majority of Kebessa people wanting to remain within some sort of
    relationship (a great number wanting a direct reunion with Ethiopia) contradict your obsession of the “bogus identity inherited from Italy”? Why would a great majority want to stay with Ethiopia if their political choice had been
    predestined by their Italian installed identity? (Identity is influenced by many factors and is conditioned by some unifying experiences, my friend).

    3. Isn’t it fair to say that national identities are imposed by some sort of socio-economic and
    political pressures which could come from outside or evolve from within?

    4. If you agree here, don’t you think you are missing the following:

    a/ the current geographical territory has never
    been ruled, as a units in its present form, by Ethiopia or any other political
    power until it was unified and declared Eritrean colony in 1890. Mereb mlash,
    or mdri-baHri does not include all current Eritrean map and its inhabitants.
    Samhar, Sahel, Gash-Barka, Dankalia, even most of SanHit had had their share of
    complicated relations with outsiders, most of them non-Abyssinians. Most
    foreign invaders (eg. Turky and Egyptians did not control most of Kebessa.
    Therefore, it was with the coming of Italy that Eritrea got its current
    geographical unison. Through the years of Italian colonization, even Kabassa
    areas, which had had close relations with Tigray, lost most of the
    psychological connection. National Identity is more of a psychological
    belonging than a cultural similarity. When YGites and others talk about national
    identity, they lament about the disconnection Italy created between the two
    Tigrignas; and speak of Eritrea as if it’s all habesha. That’s a hegemonic
    view. TPLF fought because it thought Showa kings oppressed minorities (in this
    case Tigray people), and upon succeeding, it ushered a new constitution that’s
    hoped to undo past hegemonic politics. In fact, the new constitution gave
    nationalities the right to secede if they choose so. In this case, if we are to
    believe you, Tigray people fought for that right because of wayane brought
    bogus identity; if in the future, they are going to exercise that right to secede,
    then it will be because of wayane’s introduced bogus identity.

    b, you could ask me where I am taking you. Well, I am saying that there is no absolutist or determinate point of when national identity takes shape. For Eritreans, enclosed in a new geo-administrative sphere
    by Italians for more than half a century, it was enough for them to share
    common identifying traits. Today, Afar people may feel Ethiopians, if it doesn’t
    work for them because of some political trauma, they may decide they are no
    more Ethiopians. Eritrean Kabasa and Tigray region did have long running relation;
    at times it was volatile and destructive; they are culturally similar ( I don’t
    know where my friend nitric falls). A foreign power (Italy) came and disrupted
    that relation. Kabasa which was close to Tigray had to get closer to other
    ethnic groups of the newly formed geopolitical entity of Eritrea and, by the
    way, was given to Italy by your king as a sacrificial lamb. Had Minilik been
    pressured to give away other territories such as Tigray, Afar, wollo, Gonder or
    any one of them bundled up with Kabasa to the Italians, we would still call
    ourselves Eritreans; we would just be bigger.
    Most chauvinists and revisionists tend to teach us as though there was
    an “Ethiopian” identity. My friend, Ethiopian identity is a work in progress,
    be careful not to spoil it. There are tens of millions who don’t want to be
    identified by the country Ethiopia; I am well aware of the realities. So stop
    outreaching and outstretching yourself. If you are genuinely concerned about
    peaceful relations between these two sisterly nations, be humble and listen to how
    Eritreans want to be identified. You have no say but to accept it. We did not
    venture on to how you defined yourself in different stages of your political and
    armed struggle; we request you to reciprocate that.

    c/ If I am to believe you with your repetitive “Italian
    invented bogus identity”, (by the way it’s rude, derogatory, and an all-out
    assault on a whole people), you will have to prove to me that the geopolitical
    entity we call Eritrea had been part of Ethiopia, had been incorporated in its
    political map, incorporated in its administrative structure (all the land and
    the people we call Eritrea) prior to the advent of Italy.

    d/ After WWII and the UN mandated period, Eritreans
    opted to have a close relationship with Ethiopia. Actually, it was more than a
    relationship: defense, finance, foreign relations…were under the federal government
    which happened to be Imperial Ethiopia. The king was the sovereign authority,
    he would have to approve all appointees, including the president of Eritrea.
    Why would Eritreans enter such an overwhelmingly Ethiopian identity if they had
    had such a strong aversion to anything Ethiopian (an Italian created bogus
    identity)? Where did the “Italian invented bogus identity” go? My friend our
    forefathers opted to stay with their African neighbor (by the way a country and
    people who resisted foreign invaders, a country Eritrean patriotic saw as a
    refuge and who fought in some cases under its banner…) than risking division
    between Ethiopia and Sudan. The fact that they chose to remain part of Ethiopia
    instead of risking “division” tells you something about Eritrean identity,
    which has been a solid cohesive force against chauvinist rhetoric and direct
    attacks. Eritreans chose to stay together. That’s the quintessential test
    Ethiopia did not go through, my friend. Ethiopia blew it off; when Eritreans
    asked for their rights they were faced with brutal repression. Ghedli was a
    natural result of the rock solid Eritrean identity. Repeat: Eritrean identity,
    and the repressive measures it faced brought ghedli; ghedli did not bring
    Eritrean identity. It just solidified it. It’s normal. Repression/oppression result
    in societies taking measures to oppose it; it may start in as simple as
    petitions and develops to organized civic activities. When these peaceful
    measures are confronted with force, the next level
    is violent resistance (ghedli). Eritreans went through all the stages. Someone
    who grew up under the “ኡሩሩ” of chauvinist sprinklings may not understand
    this. It also makes a heck of a hypocrite of you to complain of nitric while
    you degrade the intelligence of a whole nation.

    5. What’s more disturbing is the claims that TPLF sacrificed a lot for Eritrean identity; and that many
    Tigreans now think it was not worth it; some of them even call for the
    dismantling of Eritrea. I have made a commitment to myself to show you the good
    side of this type of ugly notion: not to enter in a tit-for-tat meaningless
    arguments.

    6. a/ TPLF’s support for Eritrean right for self-determination, as it has also enshrined it now in the Ethiopian
    constitution, was brave and just. As far as the “sacrifices” they had to pay
    for supporting Eritrean case, I don’t know why it would be a burden for them to
    support a unique case of Eritrea’s right of self-determination when they were
    publicly fighting for that same right. Even now while in power, they say publicly
    that the nationalities of Ethiopia could remain within Ethiopia only if they
    wish to do so. What’s the fuss about Eritrean case, a unique case to begin
    with, and a case that had created the possibility of Ethiopian nationalities,
    including Tigray, to fight for their right of self-determination? Why do they
    speak as if they gave us our independence? I know decent TPLF members and the
    majority of Tigray people know the difference between Eritrea as a nations and
    its history and the current regime’s policies. I’m so disappointed to see you
    time and again displaying worsening signs of relapses. You may want to visit
    Fanti Ghana clinic, my friend.

    • T. Kifle

      Selamat Mahmuday,

      I had you a comprehensive reply but eaten away Disqus. I don’t think I can do it all over again at leas for now. But I want to tell you that I share more than 90% of your explanations and over all is interesting. I will get back to the “identity” issue when I am done with my anger over Disqus. 🙂

      • dawit

        Selam T. Kifle, ‘The dog ate my homework paper! or ‘alsheshum zore alu? Teretiena keyblus, yegbay ilna?
        dawit

    • saay7

      Ah, Mahmuday:

      I love it when you get into a stream-of-consciousness rant.

      The “bogus identity borrowed from Italians” is something that the One Ethiopia crowd have been saying about Eritreans as far back as I was conscious enough to discuss politics (late 1970s.) What is new, what Harbeyna Weyanai had done to up the ante is to say that mainstream Eritrean thought is “irreparably damaged” by Italian colonialism.

      If T.Kifle was a regular Joe (ስሩዕ ዮሴፍ) it would be easy to dismiss. But I think he reflects the الطيار العام (general trend) of TPLF-II. Now this begs the question: what do you do with irreparably damaged people if they are your neighbors and you can’t move? Do you build a big fence? Do you take them to your version of ተሃድሶ (rehabilitation)? Do you accept it with a vive la différence attitude?

      It appears to me that that should be session 1 of your Peace Club.

      saay

      • Semere Andom

        Good Morning Sal:
        haha “መዓልተይ ሰሪሕካዮ and ስሩዕ ዮሴፍ ማንታ ትርጉም አለዎ”

      • Mahmud Saleh

        Ahlan SAAY;
        I foloowed your long thread with T.Kifle, and I was really hoping at some point he would say some thing that could halt his shataHtaHat. I could not see that. I’m really disappointed in my friend’s incessant attacks against Eritreans. After all, it doesn’t look like temporary shataHtaH, it looks like he has sustained “irreparable damage.” Let’s though hope he will clarify himself, I am encouraged by his latest reply. I was baptized BFF of his by Hope, and here you see it. What he and the “general trend” of Tigreans miss ( I hope there is no such a general trend) is this: inadevertently, they are telling us that they supported our case for a tactical interest; meaning ” we support you, you be nice to us now and later when we hold power.” Now, that they think we wronged them, they may think it was after the tactical stand was misguided. I am just wondering if the “tactical relationship” they say they had with EPLF extends to their support of the question of Eritrea. Remember: we never said our relation with TPLF and other Ethiopian rebel organizations was tactical.

        • T. Kifle

          Selamat Mahmuday,

          “we never said our relation with TPLF and other Ethiopian rebel organizations was tactical.”

          We define our political positions and relationships with others. TPLF/EPLF relations were never beyond tactical: just to fight the common enemy. We had little in common except this common agenda that would end with end of the enemy. You would never find a TPLFite who would tell you EPLF was a strategic friend

          • Mahmud Saleh

            T.Kifle;
            That’s exactly what I am saying. The quoted part is our stand (the Eritrean one); we know your position, I am just wondering if your position on the question of Eritrean independence was tactical too. I am saying this as a follow up to SAAY’s entry.

          • T. Kifle

            Mahmuday,

            Self-determination is a principle. It’s natural that people have the right to decide upon their fate. This applies universally irrespective the guys carrying the placards. So, Eritrean independence is neither strategic nor tactical. But a conviction in obeying social principles.

          • Mahmud Saleh

            T.Kifle;
            when I thought I was done here you go again, another shataHtaH. The reason why we are debating this topic is because of your wild claims that Eritrean identity is bogus. And I see you continuously contradicting yourself. What comes first, an identity or seeking the right for self-determination? The fact that Eritreans compromised their choice for independence for the sake of staying together (keeping their identity intact) tells you that they had a rock solid organically evolved identity. The struggle for self-determination is an expression of that rock solid and well tested identity which they are proud of. So, stop sidetracking, take the honorable exit. You may make YG a screen saver, but he won’t do a dent; your constant grudge filled fumes aren’t going to make a crack in our resolve to stay together as people and nation.

    • T. Kifle

      ሰላማት ሓው ማሕሙድ ሳልሕ
      Let me remind you the familiar quotes from the time of madness.

      “ካብህድሞ ሓሊፍካ ብቆርቆሮ ብዝተሰርሔ ገዛ ውሽጢ ምስ ትነብር፣ ብኢድካ ምብላዕ ገዲፍካ ብማንካን ፎርኬታን ምስትምገብ ዝኾነ ዓይነት ፍሉይነት፣ ዘበናውነት ይስማዓካ”

      “ኩሉዓለም ክፈልጦ ዘለዎ ካብ ባድመ ውጻእና ማለት ፀሓይ ሞይታ ማለት’ዩ ። ፀሓይስ ድሕሪ ሕጂ ኣይተበርቕንያ ማለት’ዩ።”

      “ካብ ባድመ ምስሓብ ካብዚ ቦታዙይ ምስሓብ ዝባሃል ኣብ ትሕቲ ዝኾነ ይኹን ኩነታት ከምዚ ዝኣመሰለ ነገር ክፍፀም’ዩ ኢልካ ምሕላምውን ዝካኣል ኣይመስለንን ይትረፍ ምሕሳብ።” Isaias Afewerki

      “ንዓና ሓደ ኤርትራዊ ግን ወላ ክንዲ ምኢቲ ሽሕ ሰራዊት ወያነ እንተቖጸርናዮ ናይ በሓቅና ኢና” Haile W/Tinsae

      ኤርትራውያን ብሃገራዊ እሴታቶም፣ ባህሎምን መንነቶምን ክሕበኑን ክኾርዑን ዘለዎም ባህጊ ብወገነይ ዝኣምነሉን ዝቐበሎን ኣምር’ዩ። ስለዝኾነ ከኣ ሓው ማሕመዱ ሳልሕ ምስ ኣብ መሰረታዊ ኣካይዳን ምምዕባልን ሀገራዊ መንነት ኣፈላላይ ክህልወና ኣይኽእልን። እቶም ቅድመ ኩነት ምዕባለ ሃገራውነት፣ መንነትን እሴታትን ናይ ብሓቂ ፅቡቕ ጌርካ ተንቲንካዮም ኣሎኻ። ስለዙይ ከኣ ምስጋናይ ይብፃሕካ።

      እቱ በወገነይ ሽግር ኮይኑ ዝረኣየኒ ጉዳይ ባዕዳዊ መግዛእቲ ጥልያን ኣብ መንነት ገዛኣይ ኣታሓሳስባ ኤርትራውያን ዘስዓቦ ጉድኣትን ነዚ ስዒቡ ኣብ ክልትኤን ሃገራትን ህዝብታትን ዝበፅሔ ሰፍ ዘይብል ክሳራ ቀንዲ ምንጪ ኮይኑ ምርካቡ እዩ። ንዱር ሃገራውነት እታወት ፖሊሲታት መንግስቲ ኮይኑ ምስ ዘገልግል ሳዕቤኑ እቶ ኩላትና ዝረኤናዮን ዝሓለፍናዮን መከራን ስቓይን’ዩ ዝወልድ። ድሕሪ ሰላሳ ዓመታት ኲናት ሰላም ዓሲሉስ እንትቕድም ብኢኮኖሚያዊ ስዒቡ ከኣ ብፖለቲካዊ ጸፍሕታት ምትእሰሳር ክነሐይል ኣብ ዘተስፈናሉ ጊዜ ሃንደበት ናብቲ ዝነበርናዮ ዕንክሊል ኣእትዩና። ኣብ ንዱር ሃገራውነት ዝምስረት መንነት ናይ ኩሎም ፀገማት መፍትሒ ሓይሊ ጌሩ ይወስድ። እዚ ሽግር ዘንጊዑ ብሃንደበት ዝተኸሰተ ሽግርዩ ዝብል እምነት ከምዘለካ ፍሉጥዩ። እነትኾነ ግና ዘይተዘርኤ ኣይቦቁልን። እዞም ኣብ መእተዊ ዝቐረቡ ጥቕስታት ቀንዲ መርኣያታት እቲ ሽግር እዮም። እቱ ናይ መጀመርያ ኣባሃህላ ኤርትራውያን ምስ ኢትዮጵያ ኽሓብሩ ካብ ዘየኽእሉዎም ሽግራት ኢሎም ካብ ዝትንትኑዎም እቲ ቐንዲ ምንባሩ ይፍለጥ። ኣስተውዕል! እዙ ጥቐሲ ናይ ኢሳይያስ ኣፈወርቂ እዩ። እቲ ዝተዘርበሉ ጊዜ ከኣ ድሕሪ ምውራር ባድመ እዩ። እቱ ከሓልፍ ዝተደለየ መልእኽቲ ከኣ ኤርትራውያን ዘበናውነት ብዝምልከት ዘለዎም ፅብለልታ ንፈታውን ፀላእን ብዘየማትእ ኩነት ንምቕራብዩ። የዐርዩ ዝወረደ ኣታሓሳስባ’ኳ እንተኾነ ንቱ ዘይምዕቡልዝባሃል ህዝቢ ሞራላዊ ጉድኣት ክብፅሕ ይኽእል’ዩ ካብ ዝብል ተስፋ ብምብጋስ ክገልፆ ተገዲዱ።ኣብቱ ግዜ ውግእ ብሬድዮ ሓፋሽ ኤርትራ ዝቐርቡ ዝነበሩ ድራማታትን ሓተታታትን ነዚ ፀገም ኩልዕ ኣቢሎም ዝገልፁ እዮም። ጣፍ ቀለብ ፈረስ ምዃኑን እንጀራ ጣፍ ብጌጋ ዝተመገበት ሰበይቲ ሰውነታ ብቑጠዐ ክምዝነደረ ዝገልፅ ድራማ ብሃገራዊ መራኸቢ ሓፋሽ ምቕራብ እቱ ሽግር ኣሎ’ዶ የሎን ኢልካ ክትጭነቕ ዘይኮነስ ክንደየናይ ዝተሓላላኸ ሽግር ምዃኑ ዝያዳ ክትርዳእ ይሕግዝ።

      እቱ ቐፂሉ ዘሎ ጥቕሲ መግለፂ ወታሃደራዊ ዕንደራ መንግስቲ ኤርትራ የመልክት። ኣብ ዝኾነ ይኩን ኩነት ካብ ባድመ ክ ውጽእ ከምዘይብሉን ከውጽኦ ዝኽእል ምድራዊ ሓይሊ ከምዘየሎን ከኣ ብሰማያዊ ፀሓይ ምሒሉን ተገዚቱን። ንሰላም ዕድል ክህብ ብፈትወቲ ሃገራት ንዝቐረበሉ ለወባውን ኣሽንኳይ’ዶ ከምኡ ምሕሳብስ ምሕላም እውን ነብሪ ከምዝኾነ ኣዝዩ ብዘገርም ኩነት ተቖናፂቡ።ኩሎም ጎረባብቱ ሀገራት ከኣ ናይቲ ወታሃደራዊ ዕንደራታቱ ግዳያት ኮይነን።እዚ ኩሉ እንትኾን ግን ዓገብ ዝብሎ ኤርትራዊ እንተነይሩ በፃብዕቲ ዝቑፀር እዩ ነይሩ። እኳድኣስ ብኸበሮን ጓይላን ተሰንዩ አበጀኻ ተባሂሉ። እዙይ ብፍሉየነት ዝግለፅ ተርእዮ ዘይኮነስ ልሙድን ዝሓከለን ዓማማይ ባህሪ ንዱር ሃገራውነት ዝወለዶ እዩ። ፀገማት ኤርትራ ከኣ በመሰረቱ ነዚ ፀገም ካብ ምፍታሕ ወጻእ ዝሕሰብ ኣይኮነን።

      እቱ ሚኒስትር ዱሩዕ ዝተዛረቦ ጥቕሲ ኣገላልፅኡ ፍሉይ ይምሰልምበር ብባህሪኡ ምስቲ ናይ ኢሳያስ ዝፈልዮ ነገር የብሉን። ሓደ ኤርትራዊ ምስ ኣማኢቲ ኣሽሓት ኢትዮጵያውያን ማዕረ ጌሩ ንምርኣይ ምፍታኑ ግዜያዊ ጣቕዒት’ኳ ዝኸሰበሉ እንተኾነ ንኤርትራውያን ዘለዎ ክብሪ ዝገልፅ ኣይኮነን። ክብሪ ኤርትራውያን ሕሉፈት ክበሪ ደቂሰባት ኣይኮነን። ካብ ማንም ሰፍን ትሕትን ዘይብል ክብሪ ኣለዎም። ሳልሕ የኑስን ሳልሕ ጆሃርን ተመሳሳሊ ሓሳብ ክፍንዉ ይዕዘብ። እዙ ሓሳብ እዙይ መርኣያ ግብዝነት’ዩ። ንኻልእ ህዝቢ ኣሕሲሩ ዝኸበረ ሕብረተሰብ ኮነ ሃገር ብወገነይ ኣይፈልጥን። ደሚርካ እንትርኤ ንዱር ሃገራዊ መንነት ኤርትራውያን ክፎክስ ኣለዎ። እዙይ ምስ ዘይኸውን ግን እንትቕድም ንኤርትራውያን ቀጺሉ ከኣ ኣብ ጎረባብታ እንነብር ህዝብታት ኣብ ህልኽን ረፅምን ዘንብር ሓደገኛ ኣምር ምዃኑ ምርዳእ ኣገዳሲ ይመስለኒ።

      • Mahmud Saleh

        Haw T.Kifle;
        Thank you fror replying, I will get back to you when I get to my laptop (that’s where GEEZ is). But what you are complaining about is expressions of superiority complexes (something about which I have little experience, yet I see and hear it from both sides of Mereb); you are not tackling the original point which was your describing Eritrean identity as Italian created and bogus.

        • T. Kifle

          Dear Mahmud,

          I am not complaining at all . I am analysing a deformed identity of the self employed as policy inputs to define the roadmap for a new nation that’s turned a nightmare for the entire region. It’s not a simple issue of “superiority complex ” that is pervasive almost in every culture. I am beyond that my friend. I don’t mind if Eritreans feel superior to every humanity ever lived provided that they keep that for themselves and remain harmless. I am saying the many of the post-1991 Eritrea’s policies were rooted on eyeing Ethiopia not as a win/win approach but as asymmetric thought of f invincibility. I am saying this is a dangerous venture that must be ended at the earliest of peace is the agenda Eritrean elites are looking for at this juncture.

          • Mahmud Saleh

            T.Kifle;

            Again, you are mixing post independence policies (political manifestation of a government) with identity of a nation. You’re doing it to divert us from your “bogus identity” crusade. What’s new in nations and people feeling they are proud of themselves? We are proud of who we are. PFDJ adventures is quite different and you know it. We are victims #1 of those policies. What you brought in your Tigrigna reply is exactly manifestation of what you are now correctly underscoring as “pervasive almost in every culture.” I have no problem admiting that Eritreans have been victims of their own extreme pride ans self-assuredness. Eritreans’ problem is the existence of overstocked supply of pride and self-identification with their Eritrean identity, opposite of your “bogus” theory. We are discussing it here openly. That national imperfection has been the breeding ground for PFDJ. But it has nothing to do with a “bogus” identity. Again, we here because of your repetitive claim that Eritrean identity is bogus. Prove it or recant it.

          • T. Kifle

            Mahmuday,

            haha, you are asking me to prove it as if you disprove it.

          • Tesfabirhan WR

            T.Kifle,
            There is no policy that considers Ethiopia solely on win-win base. If it exist, it is with all nations. PFDJ and EPLF just followed their jungle rule policy post independence but what was written is completely different. Ethiopia is one nation in which is part of the whole. By the way, why we need to have a policy that targets solely Ethiopia on win-win base? How about Sudan? yemen? Djoubiti? Egypt? Soudi Arabia? Italy? China? USA? just to mention of the 202+ world nations. Are you looking for sympathetic policy that focuses mainly on a win-win base with Ethiopia?

            I have read the PFDJ policiy and I have never come such policies to target specific nation but as international diverse. Stop please and learn if you are ignorant about PFDJ policies. ignorance is blessing.

            The rest is just an expression of your FEAR to see a proud citizens. SGJ said it briefly and there is nothing wrong unless it is underestimating the same statehood of other world citizens or considers Eritreanism as super human identity. We are simply proud of who we are. Stop there. And being like this has nothing wrong in fact it is what humanity should come in order to succeed over inferiority complex.
            tes

          • Mahmud Saleh

            T.Kifle;
            A simple message of the day: if you don’t prove it don’t prod it, just an advice.

          • Hope

            The best favor you guys could do for us is to ” Stay Away” from our business and mind your own business.
            Leave us alone,period,,
            Kab hassadatin ken’atin yerhikenna Amlakh.
            Why in the world would you care about Eritrean ID even if they claim their ID to be from the unknown Universe?
            The topic here is to bring real change in Eritrea peacefully and about Regional Reconciliatipn and Economic Integration.

            If you believe in such a noble cause, then you are welcome.
            If not , then live in peace with yourself.

      • Solomon T.

        T.Kifle:
        You hit the nail on the head in your last paragraph. The super-inflated ego and arrogance of the Eritrean elite, totally detached from the reality on the ground, was the root cause of their aggression against Ethiopia and the subsequent miseries they have been going through. It is perfectly fine if Eritreans want to equate themselves to God as long as it does not spill over to the rest of the neighborhood but Ethiopia and others were clearly a victim of their false understanding of themselves and the neighborhood. The sad news is that there seems to be little change in the attitude of most of the Eritrean elite even after all the miseries this type of thinking brought them. This must change and change forever before Ethiopia can even think of any normalization with Eritrea. After all, we can live with the status almost indefinitely.
        Solomon

        • Amanuel Hidrat

          Dear Solomon,

          That is not a healthy talk at this stage of cooling the angers that brought by our wrong political discourse (both leaders by the way). Hisebelu DeA Solomon. If you are not coming in this “website of reconciliation” to reconcile both brotherly people, what is worth to show up here? Let alone the bleeding of Eritreans and Ethiopians on the senseless border war, our history is replete of killing each other . TPLF and TLF, TPLF and EPRP, TPLF and OLF, TPLF and EDU, EPLF and ELF, ELF and TPLF are also bleed each other. WE are here to make an end to it and make some rapprochement between the two brotherly people. If you are not ready for that, it is better for you to come when you cool your anger. Your attitude in your last sentence is not even good to Ethiopia and Ethiopian people. It is arrogance in itself. Remember arrogance on both sides is the culprit of our misfortune.

          Amanuel Hidrat

          • Solomon T.

            Dear Aman,
            I recognize the fact that you are one of a few sensible Eritreans who can read the writing on the wall and are working for reconciliation but meaningful reconciliation cannot be achieved by hiding the truth. And the painful truth is that you are the exception and the overwhelming majority of Eritreans still carry the attitude of hatred and arrogance which made them give unreserved support to the mad men who thought it is okay to invade a country 20 times their size. Unless that attitude is irreversibly changed and becomes extinct in the mainstream Eritrean psyche, Ethiopia will have no reason to treat Eritrea as a normal state to do business with.
            I’m going to be unusually blunt here because most people seem to be too diplomatic to tell the truth as it is. Ethiopia is and will remain much more powerful in everyway than Eritrea can hope for and Eritrean elite should be prepared to accept and live with that reality indefinitely. Ethiopia will be fair to and respectful of Eritrea (just like it is of Djibouti) but (let me be honest) it is not going to treat Eritrea as its equal. If Eritrea wants to take advantage of the enormous opportunities the giant Ethiopia provides (like Djibouti is doing), it has to be prepared to live with a dominant Ethiopia in the region because that is the inevitable reality. The sooner the Eritrean elite recognize this fact and adjust their thinking accordingly, the better it will be for their country and everyone else in the region.
            Solomon

          • dawit

            Dear Mr. Solomon the Wiseman

            Fair to Djibouti out of love or fair to France out of fear? Honestly why did Ethiopia failed to claim as its own legal property that was rented or leased for 99 years? Leased property have to be returned to the owner by law. Britain handed over Hong Kong to China, when the lease expired. But Djibouti remained under France and Ethiopia pays exorbitant price to use its own port! still do not understand why Ethiopia insist to take over Assab, a property that she sold legally? Is that because Eritrea is considered weak because of its smaller population and France is a Super power? Mr. Solomon, can you shade some light on those points? Ethiopia will never free itself from poverty until Ethiopia recognize Eritrea as equal partner like France, UK or USA. The sooner the Ethiopian elite recognize this fact and adjust their thinking accordingly, the better it will be for their country and everyone else in the region.
            dawit

            Peace

        • Hope

          Mr Solomon,
          Irrespective of your Nationality and background,here are the Universal FACTS that I konw about Eritreans:
          -Vicitims of successive Oppressive Regimes and Colonizers
          -Hard-working people–not because they believe they are super-natural but because of the problems they have come accross(chighir bilhatin yifetral–
          -The most peace-loving people under the SUN–not because they believe they are unique but because of what they have gone through—sick tired of lack of peace,wars,oppression
          -the most resilient people under the Sun,NOT because they believe that they are unique,but they have proved it over and over —-“Against All Odds” due to the problems they have come across/endured…for survival,not because they are “Arrogant”.
          -The most forgiving people under the SUN–and this has been proven over and over—the ethiopians are the living witnesses,you included,if U r Ethiopian
          – etc—
          But you have chosen to live in the past with grudges and revenge.
          As to who is the Aggressor and how and why,I will leave it to the Historians to do their job eventhough you know the Facts.
          As Mr/Elder/Ustaz Aman Hidrat said it eloquently,it is time for regional reconciliation and Economic because the problems they have come across made them to be so and this has proven over and Integration.
          But if you believe that Eritreans will suffer for ever due to their “Arrogance”,you have read it wrong bro.
          Since they have survivied and prevailed against all ODDS in the past and thus far,make NO mistake that they will,not only endure, survive,exist,etc.., but they will OUTSHINE as a Morining Star…

        • Mahmud Saleh

          Ato solomon;
          We are familiar with this, aren’t we? Ethiopia doen’t mean Tigray. If your attitude represents the general trend of Tigray, then shove it off, Tigray is 3/40 of Ethiopia, We deal With Ethiopia (a bypass route is needed, I think). It’s interesting though. The good news is that you don’t represent decent Tigreans.

      • Saleh Johar

        Hi T. Kifle,

        Here’s your wild allegation: “ክብሪ ኤርትራውያን ሕሉፈት ክበሪ ደቂሰባት ኣይኮነን። ካብ ማንም ሰፍን ትሕትን ዘይብል ክብሪ ኣለዎም። ሳልሕ የኑስን ሳልሕ ጆሃርን ተመሳሳሊ ሓሳብ ክፍንዉ ይዕዘብ።”

        Speaking for myself, I challenge you, (I double dare you) to come up with proof that I ever advanced Eritrean superiority of which you are accusing me. Still, I am a proponent of Eritrean pride, but never at the expense of others, or based on bigotry. Please understand I will not let go of his accusation unless you prove it or you correct yourself.

        • T. Kifle

          Dear Saleh J.

          I have been reading statements that goes likes ” A single Eritrean life is precious” connected with the war, with victims of the lampedusa etc. I believe such statements have to do less with pride. Every human life is precious. It’s not wise to qualify human lives with such adjectives. The situation of Lampedusa cannot be more worse because the victims were Eritreans. I just mentioned your names because I have high regard for both of you. Otherwise, it’s common to see people throw similar comments when the situation arises.

          • Saleh Johar

            T. Kifle,
            Thank you for having “high regard” on me, it is mutual. But that is not how you painted me in the comment you made. It was not about “A single Eritrean life is precious”* though I don’t remember saying that, and this was not about Lampedusa. Your comment is libel my friend, it is a specific comment. You presented me as if I condone superiority complexes and bigotry. My question is still not answered, you called me a bigot wrapped in a sentence. And you haven’t answered that.

            * If I ever said anything about how precious a single Eritrean life is, it is because I am spiritually guided by the following:

            قَتَلَ نَفْساً بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِى ٱلأرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ ٱلنَّاسَ جَمِيعاً وَمَنْ أَحْيَـٰهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعاً

            Rough translation: Whoever kills a person unjustly, it is as if he has kill all humankind and whoever saves one, it is as if he had saved all of humanity.

          • Hahaha what happened to you TK? This is the first time you admitted to some thing truth. You said..
            “A single Eritrean life is precious” “connected with war”
            Very true! During our straggle to independence we recorded and archived every single soul who ever paid his/her life. Why? Because every single Eritrean life precious.
            Can you say about your toothless struggle? No, because you don’t value your citizens life as we Eritreans do. Fact!
            This happened again when there was war in 1998 to 2000. You sent all the Oromo and Amhara to die for you while we, paid every precious life.
            I can go on but I give a credit for telling the truth.
            What amazing is your Tigryan inferior complexity second to none. You people are sick. If not every life is precious and what is wrong is an Eritrean said as such. Wow!!!!!!!!!!

          • Abinet

            Who was dancing in Boston ,Atlanta ,and other places to the shock of the human race while the body of Eritreans was pulled out of the Mediterranean Sea ? Is this how you define precious life?

          • Eyob Medhane

            Abi,

            Fake patriotism, particularly in the Kebessa is a norm. Sad but true that the very large number of the Kebessa, the only way they justify their confused and lost identity is by dancing it away, even during the most tragic moments….

          • Abinet

            Eyobe
            Their confusion is leading to extinction . It is their choice ,I respect that. You remember “yemiTmwon erso yawqalu”joke?

          • Rodab

            Abinet,
            Don’t you get tired of the negativity? You been doing it all day.

          • Abinet

            Hey Rodab
            Sorry if you are offended. Tell me also if I’m not telling the truth.

          • Rodab he is from Gonder. He has to kiss weyane’s behind till his lips bleeds out just to show his service. He will attack till he is told by the Tigryans to stop. So, don’t waste your time.

          • Saleh Johar

            Selam Abinet,

            If I mentioned some actions of Ethiopians in “Boston, Atlanta” which are unbecoming based on the perception and assessment you have about your country and people, would that offend you? Particularly if I try to define all Ethiopians by the behavior of the two-dozen or so Ethiopians in “Boston, Atlanta”, would you consider my definition correct or fair?

          • Eyob Medhane

            Gash Saleh,

            Sorry that actually does not cut it. A specific hypnotized group of enormously large segment of Eritrean population, (the kebessa) seem to prefer dancing their extinction away. Pointing that out has nothing to do some silly stuff dissenting voices in Ethiopia are doing. It’s not fair that you play down the role that the Kebessa are playing in the catastrophic down fall of their own people…and as you said they are not ‘two dozen’. Both you and I know that it is a very large, in fact, it is the overwhelming majority of them. Abinet just pointed that out and I say he did it CORRECTLY!

          • Abinet

            Ato Saleh
            I’m sure you didn’t read what that (sim ayTeru) wrote in respond to T K.
            Do you know what he said about the victims “they are already forgotten ” . And this is a person preaching that Eritrean life is precious .
            Look Ato Saleh,if Eritreans dance all night in Eritrea ,I am not surprised because they are under a gun. However,if they dance in the west ,regardless of their number,is beyond my comprehension . I know you are saying that I am generalizing . My problem is again it was repeated at bologna regardless of the opposition . It was also repeated time and again all over the world on May 24 . If we take the degree of separation into consideration ,you won’t find a single eritrean who was not affected by the incidents ,but still dancing.
            Sir, Eritreans should be mourning not only for those conformed dead but also for each and everyone languishing in refugee camps, in the deserts and similar places.
            The only person should dance is IA and his loyalists. Not the ordinary Eritrean whether they support or oppose the regime.
            Thanks

          • Shum

            Selam Ato Saleh,

            At some point, a gentle rationalizing tone doesn’t cut it. It’s one thing if people come to this forum and discuss political and social matters. That’s all good. But you have people here coming to tell us Eritreans on an Eritrean forum about us as having a confused and lost identity as if they know us so well. That’s not a point of engagement. It’s just people with an axe to grind unleashing their vitriol. It doesn’t help either that you let Nitricc spill his venom. I’m all behind the “No Eritrean Left Behind” initiative, but we can’t let this forum turn into another Internet den of venomous snakes.

            You may be asking what you can do about it. I don’t have all the answers, but I would encourage you to delete some of these nonsensical posts that talk about people’s identities that are important to them. Or you can create separate forum for these folks that they can log onto and spill their vitriol. Let them bounce around the rubber walls until their fingertips start bleeding.

          • Saleh Johar

            Hi Shum,
            I cannot take unilateral decision, you have to address the AT with suggestion. But I agree some are just here to display their arrogant and inflated self worth at the expense of Eritreans. They think because Eritreans are going through bad times, they can hit at us endlessly– and we have to bear the pain of PFDJ’s repression and the gloating of a few Ethiopians! All Eritreans are insulted because a few misguided among us are bigots who worship Isaias and they forget it pains us more. But to boast and belittle Eritreans when one comes with a history of a people that called its kings elect of god, and knelt under their feet in total submission, swore on their names! To come here with a heavy burden of HaileSellasie’ and Derg’s repressive history and belittle Eritreans is more painful. It is important to note that none of Abyssinia’s oppressors were from our side of the Mereb, but those who taught the region how to fight repression are Eritreans.That is why we don’t take any lecture on that. And since it has come to this, continuous belittling of Eritrea, comparing this region and that region, this race and that race,I think it is safe to remind some people that Isaias is also Abyssinian and it would be nice of them if they took their mentally crippled man away.

            * Disclaimer: I do not approve of this language, it is just to test myself if I can do it. If pushed enough, I think I can.

            * I think Nitricc and Abinet need to cool down,they are spoiling the mood here

          • Abinet

            Ato Saleh
            Could you please explain what you mean by “those who taught the region how to fight repression are Eritreans ”
            I thought it was the Ethiopians who taught the whole of Africa that it is not ok to be repressed by colonizers. We taught them they can be free. We led ,they followed our example. We didn’t learn it from you. No Sir.
            No Ethiopian in this forum belittle Eritrean .however, the reverse is true. We have been called so many names by Eritreans in this forum under your watch.
            You like to mention the king whenever you get a chance. Yes people in the last century Ethiopia ,where majority didn’t even write their name worshiped him . And you brought that up here so that we will be ashamed to say anything against you. Sorry,it is not working. You have people in the 21st century carry IA’s picture as “tabot”.
            Most of us almost always stay away from your internal issues . If it is a regional issue it is open for everyone interested . And I appreciate your tolerance to include and protect us from some people in the forum.
            Thank you

          • Saleh Johar

            Dear Abinet,
            1. We run this forum with tolerance and respct for all members without any discrimination; we do that driven by our principles, not to appease his or that party. You would make our life a lot easier if you cool down a little. Remember you are one of the few members who stir trouble and provoke people.

            2. Your snippets of proverbs are not meant to educate or advance a debate, but to provoke other members. Dear, you and Nitricc are at the same league and I wish both of you will help us in running a smooth debating forum.

            3. You can mention all you have about feudal era wars and invasions when there was only Abyssinia which we both share…and you cannot claim anything on your own that I cannot claim. So, wise up on that aspect.

            4. I will keep mentioning the king until the day I die because to you he might be something else, but to me he is the embodiment of cruelty, inhumanity, injustice and monstrosity.

            5. No one living in this century addresses others as “You People.” But you did. That says a lot about you.

            6. In modern history, the Weyane of the thirties started rebellion that was quashed by the king you love. It took Eritreans to wake the region and fight the ancient regime of feudal lords, hypocrites and bigoted chauvinists. We take pride having taught the region how to fight tyrants, training, arming and sympathizing with all free Ethiopians. Go ahead deny that, deny us even a well documented, recent history. That unfortunately we fell under the yoke of the PFDJ’s tyranny is something that should make you think of standing in solidarity with Eritreans, not insult them for their misfortune and gloat over their suffering. That is what a free thinking just human being would do.

            7. Don’t exaggerate thinks, don’t use the “we” have been insulted under your watch cry. You are one of the worst violators, check your posts and you will see how many times you provoked people. You got what you served from equally troublesome individuals.

            8. When you say to me “you people in the 21st century carry IA’s picture as tabot, I lose you. But I am magnanimous. I am included in your “You People” category; do you wish to be treated as a mature person when you accuse me of that? I don’t know your age or your family history, but if you are old enough, what did you do to combat Haile Sellasie’s or Derg’s oppression, if you were too young, do you have anyone in your family who did that? By the way, I never carried a tabot and the walls of the house I grew up in never had a picture of a tyrant. Go figure my friend.

            In short, it is easy to follow your path and talk to you in your language, but believe me it is not productive. If you must write nasty comments, then stop your generalization, stereotyping and “You People” type of addressing people in this forum. If you have a problem with Nitricc, limit it to him (believe me you two are a great match) but don’t insist on pulling everyone to the gutter.

            Kindly help us avoid such kind of discourse.

          • Abinet

            Ato Saleh
            Unfortunately you misread me . Just show me where I said “you people”. I said “you have people”. A big difference if you ask me.
            You keep hammering the king all you want as you have done it for decades. You have used his name to mobilize people for generation .nothing new.
            Do not bring my family history since it is non of your business . You are only the owner of the website not my priest. If you must know I lost two uncles by derg,cousins and friends in the stupid war just to keep the people who hate us.
            I don’t exaggerate or cry at all.we have been called baggers,animals,just tonight I was called a “behind kisser until my lips bleed. Tell me what you call this.
            Do not expect me to play “Jesus” I don’t let anyone insult me or my people and get away with that. No way! Whoever addicted to insult, can forward it to my government .
            You based most of your comment on something I did not say. You might need some sleep . Good night.

          • Eyob Medhane

            Gash Saleh…

            Wait a second… Hold on there, what do you mean by “…. I never carried a tabot and the walls of the house I grew up in never had a picture of a tyrant. Go figure my friend…..”

            What on earth do you mean by that?

            What has carrying a ‘tabot’ has anything to do with anything?

            Carrying a tabot is our religious practice, which our forefathers have been doing, we still are doing and rest assured future generations will continue to do. No matter how our faith, religious practice and heritage is targeted to be destroyed, our language and our church has been marked to be dismantled, we have been keeping it alive and well with our blood and will continue to do so. Yes. We carry the tabot that has the commandments written on it. We do it proudly, very much so….

          • Shum

            Selam Eyob,

            Saleh is responding to Abinet’s remark that said “You have people in the 21st century carry IA’s picture as “tabot”.”

          • Eyob Medhane

            Shum,

            Thank you for the clarification…..

            Gash Saleh,

            You see how a ‘trumped up outrage’ looks like? I trumped up a ‘tabot’ outrage and I got Shum to respond to me… 🙂

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam Mr. Johar,
            .
            Just an observation.
            .
            If you look at Abinet’s response or comment and find a sharp phrase or it got a little loud at times, please scroll up a little and see who he is responding to and what was the vile that was said.
            Equating Nitricc and abinet was not a fair judgement, in my opinion.
            .
            We know we are guests in your house at your invitation. Respect has to work both ways.
            .
            On balance this is a great information and learning place (some call it Awate University) to most of us.
            .
            Thank you,
            .
            K.H

          • Hope

            Ok your Excellency ,that is why not only RESPECT YOU but ” “Adore ” you and your website,nicked correctly with the name of the Hero ,who led to the Freedom of Ethiopians and Eritreans besides teaching the Oppressed Africans how to fight as to how to free themselves.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Abinet,
            If you know who liberated you from the Derg, those are taught and armed when they start their armed struggle by our forces. They were trained in our training camp and they were armed by us from our meager amunishments. There is nothing wrong to do that. The reason I am mentioning it is, because you asked us to tell you. I am also saying just to set the record straight. Every organization which fights for freedom somehow and from somewhere should get help. And you get our help from us. So Abinet why do you indulge yourself to such kids of argument. Whether you like or not Eritrea will rise up from the ashes of the dictator, the same as the Ethiopians took them for generations to do that. To undermine the Eritrean people at thier critical time, who gave you hand to come to the power where you are is disrespectful. That wasn’t the pay off to our benevolent help we rendered to free the Ethiopian people. That shouldn’t be the go forward to the future for the people who are destined to live as neighbors. Ethiopia will not be stable at all without the stability of its neighbors.

          • Abinet

            Ato Amanuel
            1. Show me where I disrespect the Eritrean people .
            2. Show me where I lied
            Regarding your involvement in our liberation from derg ,all I have to say is thank you.
            Wuletachihun anresam.
            I hope you use the extraordinary skill you developed in liberating others will come handy in liberating your people. Specially you Mr Amanuel, your experience in mass mobilization in Addis Ababa , is an added benefit in your effort in fighting for your people.
            So far the fruit of your mass mobilization effort has resulted only in mass exodus of your people and liberation of the land not the people.
            3.show me where I undermined eritrean people.
            If you are talking about those dancing the night on the bodies of their countrymen ,sorry I have got no respect for them.
            Thanks

          • No worries no one is expecting you to show some respect; you respect the weyane so much you have nothing left for your self. so please, stop talking about the people of Eritrea. i suggest you should strategies your next begging expedition.lay off Eritrea and Eritreans.

          • Hope

            Thank you Elder/Memhir Aman Wedi Memhir.
            Eti ezni zelewo yismAA,eti ayni zelewo dimma yestew’el

          • Eyob Medhane

            Gash Saleh,

            “Some people” here… 🙂

            The purposefully tramped up outrage is also a tactic that many very much aware of. There wasn’t anything that was said by Abinet or I that was not said and discussed in the past. The tactic usually to shame and shut up those, who speak of the unspeakably sad situation that the Kebessa Eritreans are in ( I guess you chose to call them ‘Abyssinians’ today, and recommended their very victimizer to take him away with them. Where do you want them to take him away, if I may ask?)

            What Abinet and I (I assume referred as ‘some people’ in your comment) were saying that many in the Kebessa stubbornly support and participate and prefer to become a a cheerleader ( I chose not to use Haile’s characterization of their behavior out of desire to have a bit cooled down conversation) willingly in the face of their kin drowning in the sea and getting butchered and mutilated by savage Arab bedouins in the Sinai. This fact has not been brought up by us, but by so many other Eritreans with conscious (YG) is one of them, and many more. There was no gloating there. Pointing out a glowing fact is not gloating, but part of a discussion. Moreover, since you explicitly pointed out the fact that they are ‘Abyssinians’, who need to take away ‘their own mentally crippled man’, we happen to be related to those people, who born out this crippled man, we also are telling them to do something about their crippled, instead of dancing to his tune, while they are going into their extinction and have part of LOST forever….That was all…

          • Saleh Johar

            Lij Eyob,

            This is the type of “Zeray” interference that kills a debate. You chose to cheer Abinet, and when I responded to him, you also chose to be his lawyer. Stop it Eyob, don’t pour kerosene into an already lighted fire. Sometimes it is good to just stay away.

            Please (a thousand times, please) don’t preach to me what my own people are going through. I have been struggling against that for the entire adult life of someone like you. So, stop it. Don’t lecture me about Sinai and the rest.

            My frustration is that I wished we will have the courage and maturity to discuss important issues, but then there comes a disappointing comment insulting Eritrea or Ethiopia en-masse, some Ethiopians psychoanalyzing Eritreans, then follows identity crisis, Italian slave mentality, etc. What do you expect an Eritrean to do when you can’t even pass a slight joke about Ethiopia, always on the lookout, stiff as a morning steel bar, ready to wear your zeraf coat! But we are expected to take it quietly like the “Italian Slaves” that we are according to some of you here?

            Look Eyob, you know when your comment will stir the atmosphere, have the wisdom to pass some comments. Help us elevate the debate instead of everyone beating his chest and boasting my country is better than yours, my people are better than you people. The majority of our people do not have proper meals or proper abode for God’s sake, we are at the bottom of the world and we have nothing to boast about–that you Ethiopians are in a better situation is something we should celebrate and wish it continues, but is the marginal improvement will bring arrogance, it is sad. What would happen if you become as wealthy as the oil countries in our neighborhood? Walk over a carpet of people? Humility is the trick my dear.

            Now I introduce to you Gash Saleh: Dear Eyob, we at the AT take pride for having created a forum where everyone is welcome. We pay high political cost for that and you know it. We have suffered greatly from the PFDJ and you equating us to our tormentors is painful. Please stop stereotyping, stop your provocations and everything will be fine. We count on you to build this bridge of citizen to citizen discourse, we have a long way to go and we shouldn’t spoil it this soon. Introduce topics, debate it in a mature and respectful way, not as if we are in some sort of a rink and one of us should drop so that we can declare victory. At last I don’t see it that way. HELP US.

            Cheers and kindly don’t reply for the sake of having the last word to this comment. Consider it a love letter from your high school favorite girl 🙂

          • Eyob Medhane

            Gash Saleh,

            My highschool favorite girl dumped me through a very humiliating letter and I never got to have a last word with her, I guess I am letting it out on you for what she did to me 🙂 ‘Chalew engedih min yederegal? 🙂

          • Tesfabirhan WR

            Eyob,

            You wrote, “The tactic usually to shame and shut up those, who speak of the unspeakably sad situation that the Kebessa Eritreans are in ( I guess you chose to call them ‘Abyssinians’ today, and recommended their very victimizer to take him away with them. Where do you want them to take him away, if I may ask?)”

            Let me divide it so that all is clear

            1. The tactic usually to shame and shut up those, who speak of the unspeakably sad situation that the Kebessa Eritreans are in

            2. I guess you chose to call them ‘Abyssinians’ today,

            3. Recommended their very victimizer to take him away with them.

            4. Where do you want them to take him away, if I may ask?

            Simply, the divide and rule policy, in the 1940s, by Great Britian, 1950’s by Unionists and 1960-1991, by Ethiopian aggressors. Recently, by PFDJ, and behind door kissers of Article 39 who are drum hitters to see Eritrea divided (http://www.aigaforum.com/Nationalism_and_Law.pdf).

            By the way, how do guess for the unsaid sentence, full sentence that you put, “where did you read, I guess you chose to call them ‘Abyssinians’ today”

            Guessing what? and why?

            Wrong guess put the Ethiopian warlords to invade the land of Eritrean since the 15th C. Their guess was wrong as theytaught the Kebessa are always with them. Just very near by, The kings of Debarwa were protecting the land right next to Mereb. Italians were wise to delineate this land as a border. I have very close friends from Tserona, Mai-Mine, Senafe and Saho villages near to the border. They always believe that they had different way of living and well defined land boundary. Who is then the kebessa that YG and like minded people like to call. Is is a guess?

            I live in Zoba Anseba, my family tree extends to zoba Maekel, Debud, gash-Barka, Northern Red Sea. I am not saying people who are living there and recently migrated families in Southern Red Sea. Who is then from Kebessa? We are from all and PFDJ VICTIMIZED all my people. This is what I stand for. Kebessa in YG’s guess is a political extension of the 1960-1975. Never even after.

            I would like to call you for a friendly talk and for a mutual respect. I love you the the way I love all my international friends, the French, Italian, Chinese, Thai, Bangals, Indians, Romanians, Russians, Americans, Ukrenian, Rwandan, Malgash, Zambian, Nigerian, Sudanese, Vietnamies, Mongolians, Kazakistanians, just to mention some of the countries that I have close friendship so far. And I meet many Ethiopians studying in foreign countries. I love all irrespective of their origin. Their identity for me their national identity. I respect that. I have never thaught Russians are communist idenity, Tsarists, or the Chinese are Maoistsor influenced by Japanese emperors. All is within the summed up as national identity. national identity is not a one day process, it is an EVOLUTION. Yestercentury, we could have one identity, today, evolved to today’s identity and is a composition of yestercentury identity.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuQi_jPWNN8

            Abyssinian Identity was very small before, very local. Ethiopia was foremd in 1935 or after. It consolidated all today’s territory and declared as a nation. How can then tell us as if you have a specific identity called “Abyssinian” that lived for centuries. How one can be proud by tracing his origin to Solominic kinship and install a judeanic family tree in the whole abyssinia.

            Have you ever thought on the influence of Turkish cultural influence in today’s Eritrea?

            Let em tell you one thing.

            I meet students from Turkey while I was in Romania. We had a good two evenings with them and I tried to discover some cultural influence that might be left as a trace from their forefathers. I found a lot of similarities especially with people who come from Keren and Massawa. Tea or Shahi is a favorite drink in Eritrea and I asked if there is any link. I found the same pattern, especially among the Moslem brothers. Turkish people like tea more than anything and they serve tea almost 5 times per day. The same way we used to drink. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuLU85VLoCM)

            Do not forget the war against Ethiopian invasion in the 15thC. On the Ethiopian side, Portugal was involved and on the Eritrean side, Turikish in collaboration of Mereb Kings was one very remarkable historical record that goes far from the Italian period.

            The Abyssinian mind failed because it never came up as being itself. It tried to be a Judean. It never dreamt about unity and harmony as well as mutual respect. rather, forced a self-imagined and created Identity called Abyssinia. The big failure was, “they refused unity in Diversity” They wanted all people to be on the same boat of Judeasim, the king Solomonic family tree. The kings tried to develop a kinship tree that traces back to SOlomon and those who do not believe they do not belong to such tree stood against. Only then, after the 19thC, the newly framed Abyssinian mind formed a modern Ethiopia that does not include the people but the land, including an imaginative unison of Eritrea.

            I do not forget also the Da’emMat kingdom, Axumite kingdom and soon. It all had its own factor in the creation of Eritrean mindset. I want to tell you one thing, “we were tired of your constant invasion.”

            Have you ever think of this while reading history: Africa was the home the first homosapians? I know Abyssinian mindset does not like this as it is a contradictory to their family tree. I do not know how the Ethiopian Universities were handling such scientific discoveries during the Hailessilasie Era. Derge, the sovietinist, he is a confused dictator just like DIA, forget about him. Marxism will solve it all for the later two leaders.

            tes

          • Tesfabirhan WR

            Time with my Turkish friends.
            Sorry the picture was not clear

          • Eyob Medhane

            Tesfabirhan,

            Gather your thoughts and get back to me. Sorry, but what you have written above is bunch of jiber-jaber….

            P.S 15th Century Portugesse have nothing to do with Eritrea. They came to Ethiopia to assist Ethiopia for the war between Ethiopian Kings and a Muslim leader named Ahmed Grgan, who Somalians claim as their own. Unless you came with a new breaking DNA evidence that he was Eritrean, ….google, wikipedia, or try to go to library or.something, man…. Just knowing how to construct words in English does not mean you say coherent things, because you didn’t….

          • Saleh Johar

            Eyob,
            Allow me to make a comment: You wrote, the Portuguese “came to Ethiopia to assist Ethiopia for the war between Ethiopian kings and a Muslim leader named Ahmed Gragn, who Somalians claim as their own.”

            Do you see the how that is understood or misunderstood? Let me explain.

            1. You made sure to identify Ahmed Gragn as a Muslim leader, you should have identified his adversary as Christian King.

            2. Since Ahmed Gragn was from the Harrer region, I suppose you consider him Ethiopian. And since he comes from that region, it is safe to assume Somalis would claim him and I believe there Somali Ethiopians. And since the Somali region was annexed by Ethiopia in recent times, you can put the argument in one of two choices: 1) Ahmed Gragn the Muslim leader of Somalia against Lebne Dingel the Christian King of Ethiopia, (mentioning the religion of the two) or 2) Ahmed Gragn the Ethiopian leader fighting the Ethiopian king (not mentioning the religion of the two). Either Gragn is an Ethiopian (in present parlance) or he is not. If he is not, then his land is not Ethiopian. If he was then it is fine to identify his land as Ethiopia. You can’t have it both ways like the saying about having the cake and being able to eat it too! Somalis are either Ethiopian (with their land) or they are not–you can’t have Somali territories and eat its people too 🙂

            My point is: be consistent. If you start identifying people by their religion, do it across the board. Such comments make people question your view on religions.

          • Eyob Medhane

            Gash Saleh,

            I am consistent and there isn’t a word that I have to modify of what I said, because, here is Ahmed Gragn’s biography. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Gragn

            In it,

            1) There is nothing, absolutely nothing that indicates that he was an ‘Ethiopian’ or was from Harar. Instead, it says that he is a ‘Somali Imam’, hence my reference to his roots (Somali) and his religion (Imam). If Atse Libne Dingel was a priest, or if there was a ‘Merigeta’ or ‘Liqe Mekuas’ in his title, I would have referred to his religion, but there isn’t, where as for ‘Gragn’s there is, Imam.

            2) It seems you are confusing the Harar and the larger area that is called Currently called Somali Region or previously called Ogaden. They are two different areas and there is no historical evidence that Ahmed Gragn’s was a Harari, which would make him Habesha. Harari’s are small (very small) Ethnic group, who are completely Habesha, who migrated from northern Ethiopia and what is today called Eritrea… Here is their story..http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harari_people They speak a language that is basically a mixture of Amharic and Arabic. They founded the walled city of Harar and don’t have a history of being aggressive warriors like Gragn was. They were actually his first victims, when he start his expedition, because of their proximity. So, Gash Saleh, sorry you did not get me on this one 🙂

          • Saleh Johar

            Eyob,
            Some of us refer to other sources beside Wikipedia. The most reliable source of the Grangn conquests is “Futuh AlHabasha” (The Conquest Of Abyssinia. It is a translation from the original Arabic, and the most authoritative sources of the Gragn history. It is published by Tzehai Publishers–owned by Ethiopians out of LA, California) But it is me and you talking and not Wikipedia which is filled out by anyone,I can go in and change a few things, but I really do not have time to do all the misinformation contained therein.) I didn’t state Gragn’s race, I just stated the region, for God’s sake, even Ras Tefferi was in Harrer. I never mentioned Habesha assuming there are more non Habesha Ethiopians than Habesha Ethiopians. If you wish to throw Gragn away from the border of present Ethiopia, it’s fine but he is the inheritor of the Islamic Sultanate of Ber Saadedin (Saadadin Cost) and the other sultanates that extended from Zeila to Southern Shoa. The present border of Ethiopia came to Gragn, courtesy of Minelik, he didn’t go to it. It is simple Eyob, either a big chunk of Ethiopia is occupied territory, or if it is Ethiopian, Gragn is as Ethiopian more than anyone here. So, you should own his history just like you own the history of the other fanatic Kings of the time. You can’t keep pushing him out as “The Muslim Imam” implying he has nothing to do rebelling against the injustices of the time.

            One more thing: Imam simply means Leader, it is a title just like king, atzie, ras, etc. Imam is not an alien title to Abyssinia as the bigoted kings made it to appear.

          • destaa

            I share most of your points dear Salah. But recognizing Adal victory as Somali victory is an insult to the many muslims who fought the Christian Kingdom (Hadiya-the muslim ones. Do you know the christian Hadiya lady called queen Elleni? She was the wife of King Zerayakob (1434-1468) and this is to tell you the Christian kingdom was there before Menilik expansion. Afars, Melesay warriors originally from Tigray, Harraris, and Turkish muslims all fought in the name of Adal sultanate. It was a religious war but the leader was the Great Gragn, a Somali. BZW, personal question, why you named your son Adal. And I heard currently Afars do not want to be called afar. do u know why?

          • Saleh Johar

            Selam Destaa,

            I am not sure if the Afars do not like to be called Afar, but their main opposition party is called RSADO (Red Sea Afar Democratic organization).

            My son’s name is not after Adal of Ethiopia, but another Adal, a symbolic mountain in Eritrea where the hero Hamid Idris Awate fired the first bullet in quest of freedom.

          • Eyob Medhane

            Gash Saleh,

            I usually link wikipedia, when there is a sourced entry on it, which means, if you take only 15seconds and scroll down to the wikipedia page I have provided to you, you will see the list of sources, where the wikipedia entry came from. Then you can check them out to verify.

            Again, other than your usual very angry dismissal of old Ethiopian kings, you didn’t hit the point Gash Saleh. I said Ahmed Gragn was not born in Harar and there is nothing of a reference you could provide me that says he was. If he were, he himself would have been an Abyssinian. But he himself, when he declared war on Ethiopia, he has declared it on Abyssinia, a foreign country, for the “conquest”, which is detailed in a book reference you yourself provided to me. Even the title says “The Conquest of Abyssinia”. Need I say more? Anyone, who want to conquer me can not be part of me. Hence Imam Ahmed Ibn Alghazi is NOT Ethiopian has NEVER been Ethiopian…..

            Now I will let you to continue with the rest of angry speech you I am sure have some more against Ethiopian kings…. 🙂

          • Saleh Johar

            Eyob,
            If you knowledge is based on a second Wikipedia scrolling, I have nothing to debate with you about. You can dismiss it, but I have researched the subject deeply, and it is a field I feel very comfortable with, information gathered from many sources, Ethiopians and others. I wish you will read the book I mentioned, that will give you the history from another perspective, not limited to the one you grew up feeding on. Dismiss Gragn from Ethiopia and you end up dismissing a big chunk of your people and a bigger chunk of present Ethiopian territories. Gragn was born and raised in a region which is now well into Ethiopian borders–embi! I will not tell you where he was born, you research that and tell me. He was a Somali is a lazy answer, Somalia extends miles and miles from Ethiopia, you make it sound he was born in the far fringes of present Somalia.

            As for “Conquest” your present language says it: mezmet is conquest. Tor Serawit were doing just that in Sahel and Barka, and all of Eritrea–Minelik called his expansion Zemecha, all kings knew nothing and lived for nothing but Zemecha, they left nothing that showed a grasp of civilization-no architecure, no roads, no irrigation, no fortresses except what was left by the great Axumite kings–and a little of what the Portuguese built. Zemecha was also the name of the recent Ethiopian campaigns against the Eritrean and Tigray struggle. It says it all Eyob, doesn’t it!

          • Eyob Medhane

            Gash Saleh,

            Sal is teaching you word debris and sliding. Bad lesson. Don’t take it. 🙂

            1) The only reason I asked you to take few seconds to scroll down wikipedia page to check the real sources of wikipedia, and coincidently, has listed the book that you wanted me to read. So, that means the wikipedia entry got it’s information from the very book you said authoritative on the subject. I know that you know what I meant, but you still chose to twist it.

            2) The definition of Conquest is

            a territory that has been gained by the use of subjugation and military force.

            plural noun: conquests

            Middle English: from Old French conquest(e ), based on Latin conquirere (see conquer).

            Synonyms :- defeat, vanquishment, annihilation, overthrow, subjugation, rout, mastery,crushing;

            victory over, triumph over

            Latin :- Conquirere Old French:- Conqueste English:- Conquer

            Arabic :-

            أرض تم الإيستلاء عليها

            اكتساب

            انتزاع

            إخضاع

            احتلال

            فتح

            I am sure one of the above scribbles made my point…..

            Conquest is not Zemecha. It is to Subjugate….

            No matter how you try it, the owners of the language disagree with you…

            Thank you very much… 🙂

          • destaa

            Eyob but he was a leader of an Ethiopian Islamic Sultanate called Adal?

          • Eyob Medhane

            Desta,

            No. Adal Sultanate is a governing body for a costal areas of todays Djibouti, Somalia and the Dankelia part of Eritrea (Afars) and the now Afar region of Ethiopia. It used to be called Saadedin, as Gash Saleh indicated below. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adal_Sultanate

            As it is written on this short entry of wikipedia (scroll down the wikipedia page and verify the sources) that it usually raids and declares war on the then Abyssinian kings and other peoples, who now are living in the Ethiopia proper, largely on behest of neighboring Arab tribes and largely Turkish empire….

          • Saleh Johar

            Lij Eyob!

            Please re-read your history (if you accept it is your history)

            Abyssinian kings used to demand taxes in many forms, including in the form of virgin girls on a yearly basis from the Islamic Style sultanates, seven of them, that extends from Saddedin to Southern Shoa, including Hadiya, and you think such injustices had nothing to do with Gragn’s rebellion? The Gragn rebellion is an expression of the injustices and oppression of the fanatic kings of Abyssinia on the ancestors of people who you consider Ethiopians today. They don’t deserve to have their history told without mutilation? Why focus on the Turks when you conveniently forget the equally fanatic and zealot Portuguese? That is the problem with the half baked Ethiopian history many generation wasted their time learning. Even Haile Sellasie had blocked the history of Tedros until he reluctantly rehabilitated him the early sixties. You need to come to terms with your version of history written by fanatic zealots like Haile Sellasie and Miunelik

          • Tesfabirhan WR

            Eyob,
            This is your pure ignorance about Eritrean history. Your library is full of the bandits and kings who consider themselves as Solomonic. Need to format it.
            tes

          • Tesfabirhan WR

            Eyob,

            Hope you will swallow the truth. Just an introductory history breifing to fill some of your ignorance about our history.

            http://www.eritrea-chat.com/eritrean-history-abraham-hannibal-alexander-puschkin-hamasien-ottoman-massawa-turkish.php

            tes

          • Abinet

            There was no divide and rule by Ethiopia (1961–1991). There was Unite and rule.
            Professor Tes,why you call people “ignorant ?” Don’t expect everyone to be at your level. Teach us. Share your wisdom .Recommend books ,articles,pictures,whatever you have. Most of us didn’t get a chance to learn history, to travel the world or to make friends all over the world. Also don’t assume everyone attended SAWA cadre school so our knowledge of the region and other similar things is not at your level. Please don’t insult us ,rather ,consider us your virtual students.
            Thank you

          • Rahwa T

            Dear
            Professor Tesfabirhan,

            You seem an
            all rounded-man: an agro-engineer, a political analysis, Philosopher, a
            historian. But of all these, what I appreciate about you is your bravery to touch whatever topic you face. You will not even hesitate to criticize very senior philosophers. The trouble is if you could not write a convincing post, you would shift to attack those using insults that you have. It was also interesting to learn that in your quest to know and understand the history of Eritrea and its people, you have made your mind that the history never cross the Mereb.
            That you have assured us from your recent comment that your friends from Senafe, Tsorena and another village in Seraye that they have nothing in common with their immediate neighbors south of Mereb. We hope you will share us your findings how the Kunama, and Saho and Afar would differ from the people at the next door. Your research is well referenced that you have posted some of them that are coming from Eritrean Chat and Hadash Eritrea.

            May this reference from this link would also be of interest for you and Mr Saleh Gadi Johar. It may give you additional info on different Bahri Negasians from Dibaruwa and supporting your arguments.

            Enjoy it (Remember: the author of this book is an Eritrean and this will tell you how ‘democrat’ the Eritrean Rases, Dejazmach’s …of the time unlike …)

            http://africantriangle.com/images/Hazega.pdf

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Eyobay,

            You have a blind hate to Arabs and Muslims. If the talks of Ethiopians become religious hate it will drag Ethiopia to socio-religious conflict. Your hate will breed your haters. Watch your language it is not healthy to the overall Ethiopian people. This is the second time I am saying to you. I hope the rest Ethiopians to be better than you and careful to handle this very sensitive language you utter day in day out. Just an advice. Unfortunately YG has that kind mentality and that is why his argument is many times bogus. A hateful person can’t make rationale argument. So do you.

          • Eyob Medhane

            Aman,

            How did you figure that I have ‘hate’ for ‘Muslims’? Give me one sentence, ONE that gave you a clue…You can’t. Because there is none……Be yourself. think for your own self. Don’t copy anyone or try not to pretend to know anything you have no clue about just to make someone else happy…….

      • Haile zeru

        “እቱ በወገነይ ሽግር ኮይኑ ዝረኣየኒ ጉዳይ ባዕዳዊ መግዛእቲ ጥልያን ኣብ መንነት ገዛኣይ ኣታሓሳስባ ኤርትራውያን ዘስዓቦ ጉድኣትን ነዚ ስዒቡ ኣብ ክልትኤን ሃገራትን ህዝብታትን ዝበፅሔ ሰፍ ዘይብል ክሳራ ቀንዲ ምንጪ ኮይኑ ምርካቡ እዩ።”

        Mr. T.Kifle just substitute the word ጥልያን with Ethiopia and read the sentence again. Instead of reasoning based on your own prejudice, please find historical facts and try to think and reason to estimate the damage successive Ethiopian rulers did to the eritrean people and hence to their way of thinking. I hope you still have the faculties of reasoning.
        As much as I hate Issayas your ideas represent the other nightmare awaiting us from Tigray or Ethiopia after his demise. Your way of thinking is pretty well communicated to the eritreans and I may conclude that is the reason why the opposition in Addis is weak and is seen with suspicion by the Eritrean diaspora.
        You showed you do not know much about the eritrean people yet you hold the notion you know better than them about them. Issayas said those words your generalization of those words to all of Eritreans in this post and others is terrible. In the 40’s and early 50’s there was an Eritrean Pro-Italy party. It died a natural death. It did not have much of following. Had the eritrean psyche been as polarized as you are saying why then that party didn’t have many followers as the Pro Ethiopia one?
        I guess either you do not know the history or it does not serve your purpose, your prejudice.
        I disagreed with SAAY in his article about a “Democratic coup..”. because I do not want to see any trace of the dictatorship we have now. It is also equally true that your perception of Eritreans is a menace to say the list.

      • Haile WM

        I always puzzle with amazement by the mindset of some Ethiopians in this forum.
        It’s amazing to find out how people like you, hard-core weyanay, that long time ago were abusing of Eritreans and Ethiopians of Eritrean origin simply because they had “eye color” that displeased them now teaching us on how to be nationalist.
        Do you remember what your Melles was saying at a rally in Tigray(emotional nationalism at best )? Have you ever considered his war time speeches as part of the madness or it-s only upon us eritreans the madness that you diagnosed ?
        Did you ever consider the Weyanay sense of superiority when the war broke out… what was Gebru Asrat saying back in the days ?

        the very problem between Eritrea and Ethiopia is the fact that TPLF/EPRDF is the other face of the same token i.e. EPLF/PFDJ. They started from Marxism to end up to what-ever saved the day for their survival, their agenda being based on Hegemony sold under “inclusiveness” and with their “prima donna” attitude they dragged us in this predicament.
        i remember when war started in 98 both the people of eritrea and ethiopia were quite surprised and amazed nor were prepared to the scale of confrontation that followed the rest is history..
        I find it quite Ironical now that a weyanay trying to lecture the shabias about peace, equality and avoiding emotional nationalism.

        Sometimes you are too much weyanay
        Regards

        • Haile WM
          It takes gumption to tell the truth and to crtisize your past. As of now the tigryans are suffering from deep infrior complexity. Everything is Eritrea and Eritrean fault. Amazing. They are so obsesesed with Eritrea; they have forgotten the Amhara and Oromo who are coming nothing but for the blood.

      • Haile Zeru

        T.Kifle said
        “…ንዱር ሃገራዊ መንነት ኤርትራውያን….”

        This are traits of Fascistic ideology. Fascism is not unique to Eritrea or Italy. It was/is spread in many countries and societies. The further extension of Fascism is Nazism. That you, T.Kifle , are saying is unique to Eritrean identity is a patented lie, that does not fly in the face of current and historical records. Have you ever heard of Apartheid? I guess not. You see, these manifestations are not product of eritrean identity. They are ideologies that do not have borders. My question to you is; to come up with such a sweeping generalization have you ever lived in Eritrea? Do you really know the Eritrean people? Or you know only Issayas and Drue and you think they are the average eritrean? If we are the objects of your malignant rant we have the right to ask you few questions.

        By the way the traits you are showing are the symptoms of fascist person. Probably you do not realize it. This inflated ego of Wayane and yourself that you are displaying in your writing is a symptom of fascist ideology. You see, ideologies do not have borders, and worst of all they can ride on any identity. Do you realize we repeatedly asked you, if Weyane erred in the past 30 plus years of its existance? You were not able to bring any major issue that Weyane messed. You are describing Wayane as if they are of divine nature. Do you realize that? I guess not. I am not a devote Christian ( actually I am not one in the real sense) but I cannot help look at Jesus’s comment that goes like (I do not remember the exact words); remove the ‘big object’ in your own eye before you talk about the straw in your neigbours eye. Or something like that.

      • saay7

        Selamat T.Kifle and Awatistas:

        For those who may not be following T.Kifle’s thread because you can’t read Tigrinya, I will try to summarize his argument here by translating into English. I invite him to make corrections before I try to engage him.

        +++
        T. Kifle’s argues that Italian-colonialsm has had a negative impact on Eritrea’s ruling class and this attitude has had a destructive role in the relationship between the two [Eritrea and Ethiopia] people and states. T.Kifle characterizes the attitude as ultra-nationalism which is also the basis of its identity. An identity based on ultra-nationalism treats military solutions as a first resort.

        To support his case, T. Kifle excerpts three statements, two from Isaias Afwerki and one from Haile “DeruE” Woldensaie. Quote 1 from Isaias Afwerki: when you are no longer living in huts but in tin-[roofed] homes, when you start using forks and spoons instead of using your hands, you feel special and modern. Quote 2 from Isaias Afwerki: the people of the world should know that for us to leave Badme is akin to the sun dying. Hencefore, the sun shall never rise. Quote 3 from Isaias Afwerki: To retreat from Badme, to retreat from this place, to consider that such an act will be executed under any condition…one can’t dream of that much less [seriously] think of it. Quote 4 from Haile Derue: If we are to think of one Eritrean as the equivalent of 100,000 Weyane army, we would be sincere.

        T. Kifle then uses Isaias first quote to send a message to friend and foe alike of Eritreans’ modernity. Here T.Kifle provides supplementary example of dramas and analysis broadcast on Dimtsi Hafash radio in Eritrea during the war to demean those considered less modern [Ethiopians.] He uses Isaias’s second and third quote to indicate the military adventurism and how very few Eritreans expressed their opposition; rather they encouraged him with drumbeats and dances. This is not an exception; but typical of ultra-nationalism.

        Finally he uses the Haile DeruE statement as supplementary to Isaias Afwerki: that the Eritrean life is superior to others when, in fact, it is neither superior nor inferior. One sees Saleh Younis and Saleh Johar expressing similar views.

        ++++
        saay

        • Eyob Medhane

          Sal,

          Ohhhh….How I love T.Kifle! I hate this very cliche expression that is very much used in online discussion, but I am gonna go and use it anyway. Very well put. Well done. Very true…

          • saay7

            Eyob:

            Not exactly breaking news. More like ተኩላ ፍየል በላ 🙂

            saay

        • Abinet

          Saay
          Thank you for the translation .
          TK’s argument is shared by almost all Ethiopians . Actually he is more diplomat. What you hear on the streets and cafés in addis is much worse.

          • saay7

            Selamat Abinet:

            While you are doing our “man on the street” report on the zeitgeist of “almost all Ethiopians”, let me follow up with a question. In the version I translated, T.Kifle attributes the malady of ultra-nationalism (inherited from colonial Italy) to the ruling class only. In previous editions of his assessment, the malady is an “established culture among the mainstream elites.” (Dictionary definition of Mainstream = “current thought of the majority.”) Question: does the man-on-the-street in Addis cafes also share this view?

            saay

          • Eyob Medhane

            Come on Sal,

            You are complicated it. What Isayas said about us “uncivilized” bunch in Ethiopia, has been said almost verbatim by the likes of Gebretinsae Tedla. Are they “main stream ultra nationalists” for you? Their sentiment is exactly what Italian colonialism fed ultra nationalist sentiment. It’s not new. That’s how the fascists and the nazis sold Italian and German nationalism to their citizens. It was just copied by that era of colonial rulers of Eritrea and transfer for that era of Eritreans. So, please, if you are saying that it was just a sentiment of the ruling people, you can not be more wrong. The victims of that kind of ultra nationalism, those, who are being called ‘agame, adgi, beggar, monkey…….’ know much more, who is more active insulting and dehumanizing us much more than you. In fact, the insult is hurled at us much more rom the regular people than the ruling elite. At the same time, in regards to views on Eritrea and Eritreans, the ‘men on the street’ in Ethiopia holds a much more unified view (because they were prime targets) than Ethiopian opinion makers and elites. Therefore, I say Abinet’s poll is about accurate…

          • saay7

            Eyobai:

            Interesting. So it’s no just the Eritrean “ruling class”, it’s not just the “mainstream elite”, but Eritrea’s “regular people” who suffer from this ultra-nationalist ID derived from Italian colonialism. Are they, are we all, to use T.Kifle diagnosis “irreparably damaged”?

            saay

          • Eyob Medhane

            Sal,

            I want to do a two parter to respond to your question.

            1) “Irreparably damaged”.. Irreparable, I am not sure. It is reparable. But it has to be a two way street. To fix damage in a relationship you have to have both parties to be a willing participant.The current generation Eritreans holding a view of the same mentality that Gebretensae Tedla had towards Ethiopians can not repair anything and having such a mentality is to their owen determent. However, if there is a way to drop that mentality would be a start of repair. Damaged? Unfortunately, I would say yes. If it were not for that kind of ‘damaged’ mentality’, there wouldn’t have been Isayas Afeworki. Isayas Afeworki excels, because he managed to tickle and instigate his people’s prejudice, fear and hate against Ethiopians to be supported adored and nearly worshiped.

            2) I know very well, that it is more the regular people that have wallowing in ultra nationalism than the elite. In the early years of independence of Eritrea, (1991-1997) In Ethiopia, I know families (number of families) who happened to be not supporters of EPLF, never wanted to do or never has done anything with Eritrea the country or its history and politics or its referundum, just because their fathers and grandparents were born in Eritrea, they were outcasted as traitors, endured humiliating epithits, their businesses were boycoated and sabotaged, they were told to leave their ‘idir’, that they cofounded and ostercized by every possible way one can imagined, and even worse their lives were threatened for choosing to be, who they always were Ethiopians. It was not EPLF that did that. It was not Isayas Afeworki that did that. It was REGULAR people. And still, it is the ultra nationalist regular people that we see at the festivals dancing in the name of nationalism, while young Eritreans dying in the seas and in the deserts…

          • Saleh Johar

            Lij Eyob,
            You told us how those who choose to be Ethiopian were traeted.That is sad indeed. But tell us those who had nothing to do with PFDJ were treated. Only then you can have a moral authority to say anything. As long as you choose the pain that satisfies you, only you, no salt can make your claim palatable.

            Remember, the incident was described as “unfortunate” by the late PM, Meles Zenawi, not a second hand information, he said that to me and expressed his sorrow, and I believe him because I felt he was sincere. If you know more than the late PM, then I cannot say anything.

            In that meeting, I asked him that many of those Ethiopians or Eritrean ancestry who were deported or harmed in one way or another, have become the .the main enablers of PFDJ, not because they like the regime, but as a sort of vendetta against the harm done to them. If you wish to see his response, you knowwhere to find it, but I need your take on the following:

            1. Do you thing there are those who push for unity between the two countries, regardless of any other consideration, but for their selfish reasons, to straddle the two countries comfortably?

            2. Do you think the fate of the two countries should be determined by the few egoist selfish individuals who have “complexity”? (I have to use it as a few of you have taught me an amateurish psychoanalysis 🙂

          • Eyob Medhane

            Gash Saleh,

            I have a feeling that you already know what my answers would be for your two questions… 🙂

            1) Honestly, I haven’t seen much from the Eritrean side, who ‘push for unity’. Everyone, in both your and my side of the border knows that, that is a done deal. It is irreversable. Eritrea is an independent country and it will remain so and that seems to sink in everyone else’s head. Period. I know plenty of Eritreans who advocate for a ‘special relationship’ between the two country’s based on their shared cultural. ethnic, linguistic and religious ties. I assume that most, who advocate for that are sincere folks, as I am not a mind reader anymore (I left that job a long time ago 🙂 ) I believe that their advocacy is positive. I know some, who want the 91-97 kind of relationship, which was tipped to Eritrea and Eritreans favor to come back and wanted to call that ‘brotherly love’ and to those Eritreans, as Medea would say, I say ‘hail to the no’. 🙂

            2) No. The future of any country should not be determined by a few any….ist. The future of any country should be determined, ideally, by both peoples, who live in it. I don’t want to get into talking about people with ‘complexity’, because, believe me, those who got us in this mess to begin with are people with ‘complexities’. People, who ‘feared’ the ‘domination’ of ‘Christian Ethiopia’ complexity. People, who hated ‘Shewa Amhara ‘complexity’, and many more, who got us where we are today…So let’s leave people with complexities aside now and let’s agree on that people of the two countries should decide their fate….. 🙂

          • Abinet

            Ato Saleh
            What did you do or publicly say when Ethiopians were inhumanly kicked out of Eritrea when EPLF controlled asmara?
            Do you know IA or any official including the G15 say something about them?
            Did you mention this when you talked to PMMZ ? If not why?

            That winter when Eritreans were dancing everywhere ,the Ethiopians were sleeping in a plastic shelter all over addis.
            Thanks

          • Saleh Johar

            Yes, it is all over the place, and in this forum….I remember we discussed this a while ago with Papillon if Papillon or others remember. But Abinet, if you are interested in knowing what I asked the late PM, google it instead of asking me. That is why we have google 🙂

          • Abinet

            I trust you . The fact that you mentioned them is good enough for me. The rest is up to the government .
            Thank you

          • Eyob Medhane

            Abi,

            Do you want to know who was kicked out of Asmara, when EPLF controlled it? The entire family of Ethiopia’s today foreign minister Tedros Adhanom. He was in London working on his Phd, and his elderly parents and many member of his family were kicked out and were sheltered in the compound of Tiqur Anbessa hospital….Please, tell Gash Saleh about that…

          • Abinet

            Eyobe
            Sewyew quTu nachew
            I hope he is magnanimous enough to forgive and forget the whole thing.
            Happy New Year !

          • Saleh Johar

            Eyob, enough provocation please!
            For your information, I know that when you were just a kid.

          • Haile Zeru

            Hi SAAY,

            Actually your translation had watered down and sort off made palatable T.Kifle’s rant. Obviously, I am not volunteering to translate it.
            Suffice to say the Ethiopians in this forum are mad because they were called names. What do we have to say for witnessing our brothers hacked to death and put on display in a market place? Both to terrorize us and show us their superiority in hunting us. What do we have to say for the thousands of people killed displaced and villages burned? Some of the descriptions that they are finding repulsive are results of this behaviour that was common in Eritrea during the 30 years of struggle against Ethiopia. That the Ethiopians kill your brother and then expect you to feel happy and proud Ethiopian is what triggered all the derisive statements that they here from some Eritreans. It sounds stupid but what can I say? which one is worse?
            The problem is the incapacity of wearing the other persons shoes and asking yourself what would I do in such situations? Till that small step (for human kind) is achieved I do not think your motto of “Reconciliation” will have any effect. It is an exercise in futility.

          • sholla

            mr. zeru
            you are generalising by saying erraticaly “ethiopans in this forum are mad”, i think you should retract that part as it is not fairly defining the whole ethiopians in this forum.
            also if i may advice you, cool down, you sound a smart guy but you can be easily destructed and you end up in the camp of my way or the high way type, again at some point all in the ethiopian constituencies regardless passed through the same or similar victimization by the same forces that you are tolking about, so your conculusion is out of place.
            finaly i understand your pain, and give a consideration to reconcile with yourself and others.

          • Haile Zeru

            Thanks for the advice sholla.

          • Haile Zeru

            “ethiopans in this forum are mad”,

            OK, I retract this statement. At least there is one Ethiopian in this forum that does not feel that way.

            Regards,

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam Haile Zeru,
            .
            Speaking of wearing other person’s shoes…please bear with me for a minute.
            .
            If Afar freedom fighters wanted the total independence of Afar land from Eritrea, what would a normal Eritrean Government reaction be? Suppose after 40 years of mayhem and struggle at a point in time and circumstance they, the Afars, become independent. The Afar historians write about the war and the inhumanity of Eritreans in general and a certain tribe in particular towards the Afar people. As an Eritrean and more precisely as a member of the offending tribe, if you will, what would be your reaction? I venture to say not much different from what you are seeing here, just different people would be wearing the shoes.
            .
            Sorry I answered my own question.
            K.H

          • Haile zeru

            Hi K.H.

            You are pondering about the future and you are mirroring on it our(Eritrea and Ethiopia) past and present. I am not sure if that is the best guess.

            My suggestion is look at present and past history of the world and see how other people are handling cases like ours. I am sure you will say in different ways (at least I hope you will say that). That can give you a clue on how best to deal with things. But mainly depends on your objectives. If you have information you have the methodology. How you apply it, it totally depends on you. On your empathy/simpathy/anthipathy etc.. endless human reflections.

            This is my best try to your hypothetical question, I hope it shows you something.

          • Haile Zeru

            The message below was meantfor SAAY… But it does not matter anyway…

          • destaaa

            saay, I am Ethiopian and as far as i know many ordinary Ethiopians view on Eritrea is not like that. We have an amharic saying “yemayawukut ayinafikim” but this does not work for Eritrea in the mind of Ethiopians. But, after observing Eritreans view on social media, I have also come to understand that Ethiopians, mainly those who does not know Tigrigna (thus difficult to know more about Eritrea) have incomplete information about the mindset of the current Eritrean people. I first oppose EPRDF for allowing Eritrean to go and many Ethiopians feel the same. But now, I am rally happy with what EPRDF did. In my view, while manyordinary Ethiopians really like Eritreans, I also believe that they luck info about the Eritrean people attitude like how they value their independence, and howmuch they hate their Kings (I have seen here Salah who uses every opportunity to attack kings and I have once (this year) saw on Eri tv a donkey wearing Hailesellasie Cap. I think the message is clear. If those Ethiopians who love Eritrea with out knowing it saw this, I do not know what they feel. Any ways, the following facebook post will tell something about Ethiopian (both ordinary and some informed) views on Eritrea.
            https://www.facebook.com/afendi.muteki.7/posts/711141028951890

          • Amde

            Selam destaaa

            Thank you for the link. I found that i agreed with the first four paragraphs.

            It is not that i disagree with the rest, it was just a bit long.

            amde

          • Kim Hanna

            Selam Mr. saay,
            .
            I need a clarification and hopefully an answer to a question.
            .
            You defined the “mainstream” word and left out elites from what T. Kifle has presumably stated. ( in your own quote) Is that intentional?.
            .
            I noticed you have recently changed your avatar from a young pretty girl to an Ethiopian looking young man. Is that the picture of your son? I know, I know it comes with the territory of being a public figure.
            .
            Thanks
            K.H

          • saay7

            Selamat Kim:

            I try to define words that I think are impactful or have multiple meanings, in this case “mainstream.” I don’t think anyone has a disagreement on what elite means: a small number of people who have disproportionate wealth and power.

            I changed my avatar (which was my imprisoned niece) because I noticed that I am shifting into a contentious, argumentative phased to discuss identity and I don’t want her pic associate with any negative feelings my arguments will generate. So the avatar I have now is a pic of mine from last year. You think it is my son’s; my cousin Hope asked if it is my younger brother…. I think I am going to change it to the bearded one that makes me look older so I can live up to my stereotype:)

            saay

        • T. Kifle

          Hi Sal,

          Your translation is fairly enough except you overlooked a very important point. The whole of my argument is that this aggressive(Ultra) nationalism(I am not sure if both mean the same but my ንዱር ሃገራውነት is meant for aggressive nationalism) has been the major policy input that defined pre-war policies of the gov. of Eritrea. So, I am not arguing on theoretical possibilities but ground realities that costed my country prohibitively from the most unsuspected side.

          • saay7

            Selamat T.Kifle:

            If your criticism about aggressive nationalism is targeted towards the leadership of the PFDJ, there are many Eritreans who agree with you, probably word for word. The difference is that (a) you are attributing of this aggressive nationalism to Italian colonialism, (b) you are characterizing it (elsewhere) as a consequence of the “irreparable damage” that Italian colonialism inflicted on us and (c) you keep shifting the goal post as to who has sustained this irreparable damage: sometimes it is the “ruling class” and sometimes it is the “mainstream elite.” When you are asked for proof, you have flipped normal rules of discourse and told Mahmoud Saleh that since it hasn’t been disproven, you see no burden to prove it.

            1. Colonialism: There have been many scholars who have written on the impact of colonialism on Africa. The leading (and arguably most influential) scholar on the subject is Frantz Fannon. In none of the papers I have read is there a direct link between colonialism and militarism. There is, it’s been shown, sustained inferiority complex and post-colonial civil-war (because the States were cobbled together irrespective of tribal/ethnic affiliation) but I’ve never heard of aggressive nationalism being an outcome. When I asked you why we are different, you said that it is because we were not allowed to have a post-colonial State. Leaving aside the irony of an Ethiopian blaming us for not having a post-colonial State, you really haven’t shown that Italian colonialism led to our alleged aggressive nationalism. As Mahmouday tried to tell you, if we had any affinity for Italian colonialism, one of the parties that were formed after the defeat of the Italians was Pro-Italy party and it was the smallest party, with most Eritreans opting for Mahber Fiqre Hager, and their splinters of Andnet and Rabita.

            2. Quotations. The danger of quotations is that anybody can select a quote to support an argument. Many Eritreans who were very suspicious of the Eritrea-Ethiopia honeymoon period (1991-1997) often quoted Isaias quotes about the “irrelevance of borders” and his hope for a “co-federation” between Eritrea and Ethiopia, too. What Isaias says sometimes represents what Eritreans believe, sometimes it doesn’t. I will give you one simple example. Have you heard Isaias Afwerki’s view on the Palestinian question? A two-state solution will not work one day. It’s just to fool people. The ideal solution that Israelis and Palestinians living in the same nation will never happen for many reasons. One option that may work is a Trans-Jordan. Israel may be left in peace and the Palestinian and Jordanian peoples are brought together and can create their own nation.” I don’t know a single Eritrean, besides Isaias, who believes this is the right approach. I very much doubt Yemane Gebreab believes this, I sincerely doubt Osman Saleh believes this. The point is that there are some things Isaias Afwerki says (including the silly argument that spoons and forks make us more civilized, dear God, what percentage of Eritreans use spoon and fork? 0.0000003%? Some things that he says for shock value, that many in Eritrea dismiss as “Isaias being Isaias” appear to have larger-than-life impact on you.

            Isaias has made many pronouncements about Badme, now gleefully playing on youtube videos courtesy of our Tigrayan friends (including the one you quoted.) The original one dates back to July 8, 1998. It was preceded by an interview he gave BBC on June 1, 1998: “It’s unthinkable. It’s like telling the government in this country to migrate somewhere else with
            its own people and leave this land and its sovereign territory to someone else who is threatening to use force. Morally it’s not acceptable. Physically it’s never going to happen.” Isaias then had his Chief Commanding Officer hat reassuring his soldiers not to be intimidated by all the “we are coming after you” messages that were coming out from Ethiopia daily (sometimes twice a day.) So he was wrong. And when he was wrong, he was asked why he was wrong. And he said “ነብስኻ ኸተደዓዕሰሉ ትኽእል ነገር ኣይኮነን: ክብድኻ ዘሕርር ነገር እዩ… ኩሉ ደፊእካ ንድሕሪት ክትኸይድ ከለኻ…የሕዝነካ እዩ… እዚ መግለጺ የብሉን:: Essentially, he blamed the G-15 (including the one that you insensitively quoted here, Haile Derue) for treason, for making Ethiopia’s victory possible. That bought him a longer time on the throne but he lost all respect he had earned over a lifetime. And Eritrea (all of us) paid for the miscalculation.

            The plays that were being aired on Dimtsi Hafash are not a reflection of Eritrean values (elite or non-elite) but the ugliness of war. And if you are honest with yourself, I think you can point to Ethiopian-produced plays that you wouldn’t approve of. Never mind the plays, people didn’t even want to see images of dead soldiers (Ethiopians) on their TV. You cannot blame the people for what a State TV/radio shows. A fairer representation would be to ask yourself what non-PFDJ affiliated Eritrean media say about the people of Tigray and Ethiopia.

            Every nation has its myth. When I was growing up, a popular patriotic Ethiopian song that celebrated an Ethiopian virtue. The Ethiopian “እንኳን ላገሩ ለኢትዮፕያ ቅድስት ለሌሎችም ይሆናል መስዋእት.” The “others” were Koreans (never mind that Haile Selasse’s decision to volunteer in the Korean War was his and his alone and not that of the Ethiopian people.) Similarly, Eritreans have a myth: that we are capable of overcoming overwhelming odds to register victories. Of late, there has been a chipping away at this myth primarily because see it as promoting militarism. While that is valid, they don’t seem to appreciate the non-military impact of this “running away” from the proud aspects of Ghedli.

            In conclusion:
            (a) you have not demonstrated a cause-and-effect between Italian colonialism and ultra-nationalism. You seem to not be aware that the Ghedli was a revolution that was revolting not against colonialism but post-colonial African malaise. You also don’t seem to recognize that,to Eritreans, the colonialism of Ethiopia (i know, I know, Weyane II no longer believes Eritrean question was a colonial question) was as brutal (if not more brutal) than Italian colonialism: psychologically and physically.
            (b) you are unclear on who is allegedly guilty of an ultra-national mindset. You dont seem to be aware of the war-weariness of the Eritrean people, elite and non-elite.
            (c) you have not explained how the damage is “irreparable” and, if it is “irreparable” and it affects your neighbors, how you intend to deal with it. Particularly if, like Eyob, you think this attitude affect the regular Eritrean and you are just being too polite.
            (d) your accusation against Eritreans (including me and SGJ) is not supported. You seem to think that if you qualify a statement with “I have great respect for them”, you can make damning allegations without evidence. That is, you do not appear to be well-versed in the rules of debates: you can’t make a statement because you are convinced of it, you have the burden of proof to show why you are convinced of it.

            saay

          • T. Kifle

            Dear saay,

            1. You pushed it too far, I guess. I am just making comments, not writing researched articles. I am airing my opinion. That’s all. My point is Eritrean identity is shaped by colonialism, was the major pulling factor in annihilating and/or denial of the original identities of the people lived in Eritrea.The quote about forks and spoons is not original. It has been in the public domain probably before he was born. He merely repeated the same thing to make a point. How many people used spoons and forks is immaterial but Eitrea has been defined by what colonialism had brought about to Asmara and few towns. That’s what makes it absurd and bogus. It didn’t change Eritrea as we knew it but has been fair enough in changing the mindset of the mainstream elites. Then, that mindset begot ghedli which resulted in today’s Eritrea. Ghedli had been a nightmare to the Eritrean people but is a holy-grail for the elites that even a slight criticism of it is equated to blasphemy. That mindset startegized the roadmap for Eritrea’s development piggybacked on Ethiopian potential (while Eritrea is rich enough on its own). To ensure that strategy works with certainty, Eritrea started preparing itself militarily. Then when the push comes to shove, the muscle built over the years was called on to do the “miracles”. After all, it is the Ethiopia they “defeated” just not long ago. Why would they bother much about it when they can just send their armed forces and subdue Ethiopia at gun point?. That’s what aggressive nationalism does. It intentionally exaggerates the worth of self. The elites exaggerated their role in defeating dergue. That exaggerated self was carried forward and they declared a war without blinking an eye when they felt they were “crossed”. Saleh Younis writes and writes articles after articles to support the righteousness of the war, ridiculing Ethiopia and its leaders without let up. Even to today I am yet to hear you denounce the war and admit that Eritrea was indeed the aggressor. And that you did it not because you were misinformed or hoodwinked by some spell but has been a conscious decision that reflects the central theme of things you value. That’s why I observe your soft spots in your opinion when dealing with PFDJ.

            2. I couldn’t get it why you labelled me insensitive for just quoting Haile (as a representative of a nation) for his foul speech. I share with you there will always be somethings the government does which the common people wouldn’t approve. But I never come across Ethiopian government media ridicule Eritreans. There were people who loved singing “Aybelnando” kind as if the aggression happened because EPRDF supported the self-determination of Eritrea. For me that never been a problem because I understand Eritrean self-determination never been conditional. What Eritreans do with their independent country is upto them. The fact that they chose to fight us in a veiled pretext wouldn’t make me regret my support for their aspirations for independence. AT the same time I feel duty-bound that as much as I fight the old thinking in some Ethiopians that ridicule the Eritrean person, I use the same metric to air my view when I feel Eritreans erred. The “Eritrean life is precious” kind of statements may not necessarily based on bigotry and all but given all the background of the tumultuous relationship we have, it might be construed as such
            this is a quote from your entry elsewhere, verbatim, “VOA scooped us. Notwithstanding who reported it first, this is a story that deserves its own coverage: EVERY ERITREAN LIFE IS PRECIOUS and when we lose one, we must raise holy hell.”
            http://awate.com/lampedusa-rage-grief-indignation-grips-eritrean-diaspora/

          • saay7

            Selamat T. Kifle:

            You #1 para is really the “Banda” argument couched in cadre-speak. Eritrean identity is not as one dimensional and cartoonish as you are making it out. One of the corrupting influences of colonialism is it’s effect on language. The EPLF restored Tigrinya to its pre-colonial purity. Another influence of colonialism is to give people an inferiority complex. The Ghedli annihilated any potential of that taking root in Eritreans and convincing them that they are able people with a rich traditions and history, capable of standing up for the rights and overcoming oppression. The Ghedli did not just teach Eritreans to reject the Italian colonial values, it taught them to see the Ethiopian rulers as colonizers (instead of teaching them they are a different tribe who hate you: it put it within the politico-economic mindset of colonialism. The Ghedli taught Eritreans that one of the most likely outcomes of colonialism is tribal warfare and it made tribal/ethnic identification a taboo and successfully avoided tribal/ethnic warfare (the ELF-EPLF civil war was ideological war. You should know: your organization was there.)

            Like people all over the world, there are aspects of our identity that we work to improve on. An honest appraisal of this will show that many of those trace their roots to our pre-colonial era. They are, dare I say it, part of the Habesha cultural fabric. I can show you proverbs in Tigrinya, Amharic that explain the “1 fumigator can kill 1,000 flies); this has nothing to do with Italians or Ghedli. Ethiopians were never colonized but there are many demeaning sayings/proverbs that one ethnic group (for example Amara) says about another ethnic group (say Oromo.). Was Italian colonialism or Ghedli responsible for the expression that if you can’t trace your ancestry to Tigray you are not Chewa? So get of your high horse (or mule or donkey) and stop the moralizing. It may intimidate those who are easily cowed and it may also feed the PFDJ stereotype of Hasadat Weyane but it has zero impact on people who know themselves and their people.

            You made the accusation that SGJ and I propagate the view that Eritrean life is more precious than any other. And when you were challenged all you could come up with an article where we said Eritrean life is precious. Where is your claim that we said MORE THAN? You don’t have it; it’s all in your head. The Lampedusa issue is kzhleka bidka kwEyeka bmanka (sorry for using spoon in my metaphors): you guys (YGists) have to synchronize your arguments. Your high priest (supported by Eyob) says that saay and SGJ don’t care about Lampedusa victims because they are mostly Cheistian highlanders; you are now saying that we think they are worth more than any life? You see how incoherent your arguments are? Eritrean life is precious simply is a rejection of the Isaias regimes gambling with their lives. It’s also an expression about one simple fact: we are a small country with a small population. Dude, really, not everything is about you or your country. And thanks for hosting our refugees (Sudan has hosted our refugees for decades and I have not heard a single Sudani ever insisting that we thank him: thanks for keeping it classy.)

            One more thing. The dehai discussions happened 14-16 years ago. Let it go. It was low class of you to drag those who are now dead (which you pointedly stated) into your personal mission. While you are at it, since those debates didn’t happen in vacuum, reference what your Ministry of Information and what Dagmawi was saying then.

            As for popular war time songs, just so you get the full picture, when PFDJ was singing “anta iziatom menyom menye?” a popular comeback was “ab tshtshkum hizkumom zmetsaekum entay nAna tHatuna!” But that didn’t make it to Dehai and Dimtsi Hafash so, in your one-dimensional world, it didn’t exist.

            saay

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dear T. Kifle,

            I was surprised when you say ” I am just making comments, not writing researched articles. I am airing my opinion.” We are not debating for the sake of debate. I thought we are debating to bridge peoples and nations of our region so they can live in peace and prosperity. At least myself I am engaging based on that spirit and convictions. Even if we don’t put our argument in terms of collected researched papers, I still believe to debate on collected thoughts based on reading various literature, assumptions, concepts, and realities. If you are engaging just to air your opinion only, however it is framed biased or not, anything without the ingredients that are needed for a debate doesn’t help to advance our debate. In fact we were advancing our debate with the help of the moderators to some extent. But unfortunately, you are dragging us to the old tricks of Ethio-Eritrean politics. I am really aggrieved by that.

            Second, I don’t need to remind you, but I will state three realities: (a) African states are curved by the European colonizers, so does the Eritrean land. We were colonized by the Italians for 60 years before the nation and nation-states are formed. The liberation movements were fighting to liberate the Eritrean people to determine their own fate within the inscribed and prescribed land called Eritrea by the colonizers from the colonizers. So we didn’t fight to bring a new identity but the formal identity given by the colonizers similar to other African counties. (b) When the African countries formed the “organization of African unity” (OAU) they agreed to respect the boundries set by the European colonizers. (c) Look even the union of United Kingdom (UK) that include Scotland is now probably at a turning point of new history making. We shall see how history will witness it. But the bottom line is people decide their fate and the Scotish people are voting to decide their fate either to be independent or remain in the union. Therefore identity is not a permanent things, it evolve and devolve with time and space, and is dictated by circumstances.

            What I could ask Mr. Kifle is, to think about the future as “Horizon” reminded us with the pic of kids and flowers to give them hope. What is the purpose of a debate for the sake of debate if it isn’t for advancement of peace and prosperity. Could you please switch your gears to respond for the call of the kids and Horizon. Get over it and move on

            regards,

  • Amanuel Hidrat

    Serray,

    It is not on the definition we are arguing, It is what you and your colleague are not doing what needs to prove the definition on the Eritrean on Degen and Eritrean reality. My friend again you can go here Degen has shown ambivalence and let us call it “Degen’s syndrome.” Such approach is an illiterate approach. sorry to say it, but you are acting like that. In both instances of your definition, still (a) you need, Degen as a subject of your study must be physically with you (b) you should have the methodology and tools to read the requirement to define the ailment of your subject (c) once you determine it as new phenomenon “disease” it should be scrutinized by your peers (d) you should have the credential and the protocols to do that. Guys you have to know your limits.

    • SA

      Emma:
      I thought the syndrome was given by YG to the Eritrean people. YG writes, “We can then say that it is Dejen’s Syndrome that sealed their [the G-15’s] fate and, consequently, the Eritrean people’s fate….If there is anything that Dejen’s escape story has shown, it is that people are kept in Prison Eritrea more by the state of their mind rather than by the strength of the regime.” It is interesting that Serray provided us the secondary definitions of syndrome when the primary definition of the word has to do with a pathological condition. Dejen writing two letters per week and collecting his belongings each morning for some years now makes him a person with a syndrome? Since a syndrome is a pathological condition, what would be considered a normal condition (no syndrome) if one was placed in prison like Dejen? Since Dejen’s syndrome is about the Eritrean people, I was wondering how the increasing number of people who are turning against the regime would be considered to have Dejen’s syndrome. Or is it only people like YG who reject Ghedli in its entirety that do not have Dejen’s syndrome? Upon hearing Dejen’s heroic escape, one expects to read articles with titles “Dejen’s Triumph”, “Dejen’s Enlightenment”, or some other title if one want to write with a focus on his state of mind. But not YG, who is almost incapable of writing overall positive things about Eritrea and Eritreans. But boy, is he a great short story writer! Perhaps, we could benefit more from his writings if we start reading his writings as short story literature rather than serious political and cultural analysis.

      SA

      PS Amanuel, Serray, and Tesfabirhan: you are all important contributors to AT, and I hope I speak for many people, when I urge the three of you to refrain from personal putdowns and condescending remarks.

      • saay7

        Selamat SA:

        First, I second your motion regarding Emma, Serray and Tes.

        Now, with respect to the so-called Dejen Syndrome.

        Let’s strip it down to its basics. Dejen, the son of EPLF fighters, was raised by the EPLF and, after independence, the government invested heavily in him to join an elite group (airforce pilots) and just when it was beginning to get a return on its investment, it imprisoned him and he remained in prison for 15 years, until he escaped from a prison found in the very heart of Asmara, left the country, and gave a lengthy interview to assenna radio about the circumstances of his arrest and his sensational escape.

        Consider three reactions:

        1. I don’t understand what my government is doing! (dawit and nitricc, come to mind)
        2. This regime we have is brutish. But, man, there is hope for us Eritreans: the Eritrean spirit of defiance is not dead. Here’s a young man who was imprisoned for 15 of his 30 years in Planet Earth, but he is so well-balanced, so normal, so well-spoken, so unbroken.
        3. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he is an impressive guy, but how come he didn’t blame his accusers, and specifically Isaias Afwerki, for ruining his life? I know: this is a pathology and it is (all together now, let’s go from the specific to the general) indicative of the Eritrean mind.

        When YG wrote his piece with the references to scholars, I kept thinking that truth is just as likely to be found in low-brow as high-brow literature. I kept thinking: hasn’t YG seen “The Shawshank Redemption” and how the Morgan Freeman character, who had been institutionalized his whole life, just was terrified at the idea of being free? So why is this fear of freedom, hesitation to criticize your enslavers, an “Eritrean” character?

        And when I read all the Eritrea-haters (and I don’t use the phrase loosely) started celebrating him, I started playing different scenarios in my head:

        1. What if Dejen, in his interview, had said everything he said, or didn’t say, but added one sentence: I found the strength to escape because someone sneaked in the translated works of YG to prison. Would the reaction be the same?
        2. What if Dejen, in his interview, had said everything he said, or didn’t say, but added one sentence: I found the strength to escape because I converted to a Jehovah Witness in prison. would the reaction be the same?
        3. What if Dejen, in his interview, had said everything he said, or didn’t say, but added one sentence: I found the strength to escape because I was listening to Ethiopian radio in prison. would the reaction be the same?

        Add just one sentence to explain where he drew his strength: that he read the autobiography of Haile Selasse, that he discovered his Habesha roots…and they would be raising funds and selling his T-shirt at a Teddy Afro concert. But this guy is even more remarkable, he did all that, he found all his strength to escape form the clutches of EPLF using everything he was taught by EPLF. And that makes him incomprehensible to those who hate the EPLF.

        Antum sebat. I think when people get deeply into politics and activism, they tend to forget what they already know. Have you ever wondered why some of the fiercest trash-talkers of the PFDJ don’t trash-talk about me? It is only because I had a two-year association with them a lifetime ago. If that is true for me, how intensely hard must it be for someone who spent a lifetime with a comrade for whom, at one point, he was willing to die for, how infinitely hard, how next to impossible must it be? Why are people so shocked that an EPLF veteran won’t suddenly start trash-talking his former comrades? Isn’t this so elementary?

        The greatest American comedian who ever lived, Richard Pryor, was paying tribute and lampooning black people in one of his best skits (Richard Pryor: Live At Sunset Strip.) Here’s the line: “We, men and women, come from the first people on Earth. The first people on earth were black people…. Black people, we are the first people to have thought. We are the first people to say “where the f&*! am I? And how do you get to Detroit?” When Pryor ridicules his people (because Detroit, then crime capital of the US, is predominantly black), the audience laughs because he has just paid tribute to them. Well, all YG’s pieces are the ridicule without the tribute, because the only tribute to Eritreans is solely on the basis of any trait associated with Ethiopia.

        I think about 2 years ago, here in this forum I discussed how and why Isaias and Co are superior communicators. If you thought the reaction to PFDJ-II was furious, that was just as bad. What I had in mind was this: the PFDJ does what all incumbent parties do: it sells hope: stick with us and all will be good. To do that, it celebrates every minor achievement (fabricates them most of the time) and it censors all bad news. Hager tHmbeb ala. The opposition does what all opposition do: we highlight all that the government is doing wrong. What we never do is paint a hopeful picture of Eritrea and Eritreans and even when there is something to celebrate–like the defiant spirit personified by Dejen–we find some way to find a lethal flaw in it.

        saay

        • Hayat Adem

          Selamat Sal,
          I have up-voted this feed from Sal because of the link. I almost always enjoy your links Sal.I wish I could have said the same about everything else.

          1) Please stop projecting as if there is some kind of cult group growing around YG. We, the ones you are referring as Ygists, are capable of meeting an idea with an idea. Why areyou trying to depict YG kebero junkies of the other kind here?. If you found me supporting Yg, it has to occur to you it is only because it is the sensibility of his assertions and the explanations that accompany them. If you found me questioning your views, it has to occur to you it is for the same reason in reverse. If I happen to be siding with Yg, and challenging you for more times than not, it is only for those same reasons in place at corresponding frequency. Could there have been poor judgments on all those positions I have taken? As a matter of possibility, YES- though none that I’m aware of.

          2) You have been an outspoken about ridiculing others, and on a false basis at that, for falling to nostalgia of going back to Ethiopia, or andinet or the Kings time. No body I know, or read have ever pushed the idea of writing-off of Eritrean independence. Yg has written volumes discrediting ghedli as a cause and practice, and also how ghedli and post periods have been worse than the pre-ghedli times but never have I read him saying that Eritrea should go back to Ethiopia, and there should be a struggle launched towards that end. But I think everyone wants to see a better future from here, and even though the validity of ghedli and the sacrifices it demanded are questionable, I believe the quality of nationhood and livelihood can be improved greatly with the right leadership and sound governance. If nostalgia to the pre-independence irritates you, you should be irritated by any nostalgia any ex-eplf is exhibiting towards an old loyalty as well.

          3) “Why are people so shocked that an EPLF veteran won’t suddenly start trash-talking his former comrades? Isn’t this so elementary?”
          Funny, Sal, you are surprised that I eas possibly ever puzzled when I saw some one who has been jailed of offenses he never knew or committed for 15 years, risked his very life in the process of securing his freedom by escaping from those ex-colleagues, and then heard him explaining the character of his jailers using a comradely language? And you have a very thin skin when people ‘trash-talk’ about the evils and excesses of ghedli and come at them with your mighty pen and call them “Eritrea-haters”? I found the use of that phrase very unintellectual.

          4) “… we blame the people we are trying to inspire”.

          Please inspire people around truth. That is the best and the lasting way to inspire.

          Respectfully,
          Hayat

          • saay7

            Selamat Hayat:

            It’s Saturday…I go light on politics on Saturday:) You can find me at the Jebena page as soon as Eyob comes back from watching Ethiopia lose to Algeria* in the qualifying games Africa Cup 2015. We discuss music and we harass each other on our tastes.

            If you haven’t watched Richard Pryor: Live At Sunset Strip, it’s worth watching the whole show. It is from 1982 and it still holds up… Richard Pryor goes to Africa and comes back proud and transformed. I think it is what Yemane G used as a premise to organize YPFDJ. Decades later, Jamie Foxx did the exact same thing and ripped off Pryor’s entire act. I mean, sorry, he paid hommage to it:)

            We will discuss your itemized points at some point, I am sure.

            saay

            *That was a frebie to YG: How Ghedli-romantics root for Arabs over Ethiopia:) In reality, I was rooting for Ethiopia and I just checked the results.

          • Hayat Adem

            girim.

          • Rahwa T

            Congratulation to Nitiricc and Co.

          • Semere Andom

            Hi Sal:
            Read your Sat response to Hayat in
            http://awate.com/poets-corner/
            Lots of unintentional mutilation to drive SJG crazy 🙂

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Hayatom,

            Unlike YG you are firm on independent Eritrea. The critics of Ghedli is valid as far as you believe on the cause of the Eritrean revolution. As ex-tegadalay I could tell you these (a) there were many excessive power by the leaders ( liquidating or killing innocent tegeadelti) (b) The fronts failed to administer their differences and and took us in to a bloody civil war, which still like Amb, Andeberhan believe that it was necessary path for ghedli has to go through (c) after concluding the armed struggle they failed to transfer power to the people and created a structure where the state and the government can not be identified (more on the coming article) (d) the created the army of the party rather than the army “that defend the nation and its constitution” (more on the coming article). As far as Critics are healthy and valid we should embrace them. Going against the Eritrean identity and the cause of our struggle, we will not accept it. We will fight against that view and defend the result of our cause that is our “independence and the sovereignty of the state” while we are fighting against the brutal dictator.

          • Semere Andom

            Good Saturday Emma and also Hayat

            I think the threat coming from those who question the Eritrean identity that has been jelling for over 100 years now is negligible, For better or worse it has been solidified, paid for in full and indelibly seared both into the Eritrean consciousness and lexicon even for those who are not born yet:-)

            But the attack on the free thinking is disturbing, it has become sort of devil worship. If the Ethiopians who annexed Eritrea and squashed the liberties of Eritreans smartened up, maybe we would be in better position with much much pain and sacrifices for both Eritreans and Ethiopians, but the arrogance, visionless colonizers helped radicalize Eritreans to be so disgusted and we justifiably wanted to distance from the identity that exuded brutality and arrogance by dropping some of the traits in the 30 years we spent in the wilderness. We are doing the same now, slowly, painfully slow for some of us, we are distancing from the brutality of PFDJ and its culture of arrogance.

            The existential threat for both our identity and country the dangerous axe on our necks: PFDJ. We had the unimpeachable right to wage it, but the attempt to emulate the process that Ghedli followed, inexcusable, totally avoidable , but sadly the Ghedli culture, PFDJ arrogance and hypocrisy are being used as measuring sticks for Eritrean attitude. It is not. Like our Ghedli, our culture was ridiculed and was hijacked during the nascent days and the fight is also waged redeem it at least in some form. It is not by fluke that we have the tyrant in Asmara now. The system we have has been created atop the rubbles of the Eritrean culture and on the bones of the true freedom/liberty fighters who perished faintly soliloquizing the words liberty and justice with their dying lips.

    • Serray

      So we have to use amanuel definition of words now, not the dictionary?

      • Amanuel Hidrat

        Serray,

        You have a problem my friend, and you don’t read well the comments I made. Just to help you how to read it in my above comment, Start to read from the sentence which says ” In both instances of your definition, still……………and finish it to the last of the paragraph. Does in any way show rejection to the definition you got it from “Free dictionary”. Not at all. I was telling you on both of them, you still need the requirement I mentioned. Read and re-read before you comment.

  • Ambassador

    Merhaba,

    “Ambivalence” explains Degen’s state of mind better than “syndrome”- at least for the span of the interview. Yet again believing in the idea that ‘people as a whole won’t get it wrong or Eritreans (እዚ ጅግና: ሓቐኛ: ቆራጽ ህዝቢ…lol) are infallible’ is a syndrome. Can we at least wait for a while and give Degen a chance to navigate the present-day terrains of Eritrean politics before we pass judgment on his state of mind? He could as well be living in the immediate aftermath of 1998, when we all were worshipers of Isaias Afewerki (that should speak volumes on possibility that society can go dead wrong). Had I been incarcerated in 1998 and stayed in prison for 15 years, I would’ve thought that people still revered Isaias, and calling him names is the ultimate sin an Eritrean can commit.

    I love YG, he is brilliant. A kind of brother I wish I had. But, I suspect that he may have been reading too much into Degen’s interview without being aware of the influence that his complete disdain for Ghedli might have had on that reading. As much as he believes the idea that the majority of Eritreans are blinded by Ghedli romanticism, he too is blinded by his strong insistence on positioning events against his disdain and analyse how they fare. Such position gives no room to people like Degen who may choose to stay in limbo (ambivalent) until they figure out the consequences of taking a political side. YG’s position is in fact very deterministic in that it makes all other possibilities-that may explain Degen’s state of mind-irrelevant.

  • Aman it is your fault. First, why are you writing about YG? I thought you want us to move on from this poisonous, unproductive, waste of time and energy topic? Now, you have written the master of the three, Serray, Semere and Hayat will come after you foe blood. So, don’t be surprised if Serray acted like a dog or mad dog. So, they will take turn and they will come after you. the foot solders know no shame. But it is your fault; why write about their master? If you must, admire YG for his “philosophical breakthrough thinking” lol then they will leave you alone.

  • Hayat Adem

    Dear Emma,
    The way YG was using the “syndrome” expression through Dejen on the Eritrean populations was not in its literal sense as in a medical/psychiatric one. Because your entire article assumes as if YG was referring Dejen, and therefore Eritreans, as a medical/psychiatric case, it was obvious for your conclusion to grow irrelevant. The risk was doubled on you as it showed also substantial deviation from your earlier comments on him.
    At another level, YG was spot on to call it a syndrome. You have signaled your agreement with him in his discovery of traits of ambivalence in the talks of Dejen, the hero. Although you seem to have revised your earlier supportive view of YG description, you still believe some of the characteristics YG observed in Dejen qualify to be called ambivalent tendencies. Remembering that Dejen is a world class hero and not an average weak personality suffering from indecisiveness, the only reason he was not declaring an all-out war on his captors after he secured his freedom, and after deciding to speak out of his solitary situation to the world must be because he still has some soft spots for DIA. The victim holding some positive feelings (explicit or implicit) towards his abuser is nothing else but a syndrome. If we have to call it by its name, it is called the Stockholm Syndrome.
    Hayat

    • Amanuel Hidrat

      Hayatom,

      I will repeat to what I said to serray. I didn’t say he diagnosed syndrome, I said it identified an ambivalence and heroism in Degen. You don’t need a clinical study to identify ambivalence you could read from what he said. What YG have done unforced error is to call ambivalence as a syndrome and he extrapolate it to the Eritrean people. I didn’t contradict myself on this issue for I am sure what I am saying. But like what you say, suppose you saw some changes in my argument, nothing wrong with it. What you have to focus is what I said thoughtfully and collectively on my article.

      Hayatom, Syndrome is a medical/psychiatric one. It is not a political or philosophical one. I know you yourself have saw the flaw of it. But if it isn’t in literary sense or medical sense, then in what sense did he put it? If you have something to defend him on what YG has said go ahead…only we wish to have – senay meAlti.

      You also want to call it “the Stockholm Syndrome”. I am sure you are aware that the Stockholm syndrome is coined by Swedish Psychiatrist and criminologist Nils Bejerot who involved in the case study. So unless you are equipped with the knowledge and the tools to prove by practical study of Eritrean subjects (individuals) you will in trouble yourself. Hayatom, I will advise you to read and follow what a clinical psychologist Dr. Joseph M, Carver they way he describes the bonds between the victim and the abuser in his study. If you have the know how, the tools, and the subjects for study go ahead, we will encourage you to do so. But if it is just for political argument reason, you guys, you are empty hand fellow -on that particular discipline of study.

      Amanuel Hidrat

  • T. Kifle

    Dear Amanuel H.,

    Well, you have every right to make up your mind, evolve etc. But your initial response to YG’s article has been of appreciative even defended him from the little nauseas in this from. Now Serray has made the same observation on the matter.

    • Mahmud Saleh

      Haw T.Kifle;
      It’s obvious Aman H has made a regorous attempt to respond to YG. It’s well organized, it’s concise, deep, and to the point unlike YG detouring games. Aman H made a more lousy writer out of YG. Personal feeling and taste apart, if you want to challenge Amanuel H, eneho feres eneho mieda, but make it with an appropriately challenging article. I watched you playing hit and run with AmanH and saay, and it was not good.

      • T. Kifle

        Mahmud Arkey,

        I am happy that you are happy about it. you said the same thing on shoddy articles that were hoped to significantly reduce “the viral load” in YG. That’s great. For me, the comments you make in this forum make much sense than the articles intended to “de-construct” YG’s incessant expositions combined. My question here is still lingering: AH initially argued in support of YG’s latest article and wanted to know what transpired in between. please read also Serray’s comment above.

    • Hayat Adem

      Dearest Emma,
      The reason why our friend T. Kifle felt to have sensed a deviation from your first reaction to YG’s view on Dejen might be because your reply-note to Sem you posted two months ago. Then you wrote:
      “This time YG’s article is precisely on target, describing Degen “as par
      excellence quintessential Eritrea hero” but yet cohabited with
      irreconcilable contradictions in his mind. Degen was short of
      condemnation to Issayas Afewroki despite he is the man behind the
      decision to sent him to prison. Instead he gave circumstantial evidence.
      Yg related the case of Degen with the parable, the “kafkeasque world”
      in that he didn’t give up, he kept fighting to liberate himself. This
      article is the second best or co-equal to his famous old article
      “unity by subtraction” from his writings. It is a must read article. It
      is well written article, that define Degen as hero, but yet it diagnosed
      some elements of cohabited contradictory understanding in his mind. As
      usual you need patience to finish the article”
      And then you kept on defending that take of yours in other follow-up replies for a week or so.
      Hayat

      • Amanuel Hidrat

        Haytom,

        My reply is ditto.

    • Amanuel Hidrat

      Dear T. Kifle,
      Can you tell me where I have said YG was right to characterize Ambivalence is a Syndrome? I am asking not by your mere interpretation. What you find repeatedly in my comment back then and now and even in this article is, Yg has done a good job to identify “ambivalence and heroism on Degen’s interview.”Other than that, you are interpreting “a good job” to the entire meaning and message of his piece. I tell you you are wrong until you prove it.

  • Serray

    Tes,

    You are one truly confused guy. You are accusing amanuel for being fair to someone who deconstructs the people who abused your generation? You are actually holding yg responsible for your generation because he criticizes the mindset that turned your generation into running slaves? If history repeats and your generation or the next abused the young, it is because of confused people like you who don’t know the difference between being free and worshipping an idea that turned them into mumbling idiots. This post of yours is about the dumbest post I ever read at awate. My picture of you after you tried to take on yg with rudimentary logic of a child is, that of dead snake with croc coming out his stomach. Deflate, my friend, cause you are heading to the ypfdj summer camp if you don’t.

    Selamat Amanuel,

    Do you still stand by the following?

    “On this piece [Dejen’s Syndrome…] I am in full congruent on his conceptual argument and what he read in Dejen’s mind from his eloquent description of his imprisonment. He saw in Degen heroism in the way he liberated himself but also saw his inability to pinpoint the culprit behind his imprisonment. YG also related degen’s mind reality and argued that Degen’s mindset is a microcosm of our reality, henceforth, demanding from each of us to liberate our mind to fight against the culprit who put us on our current predicament”.

    You seem to agree with his diagnosis and projection in the above quote.

    • Amanuel Hidrat

      Haw Serray,
      I don’t know from where you quoted this full paragraph as you put it in quotation. But you also seem that you didn’t read my article. If you have read it, you wouldn’t ask me if I agree or disagree with is diagnosis. So I will prefer to let you read it first, and then ask me. Otherwise the title in itself will tell you something even before your read it. It is unbecoming from Serray to insinuate my position they way you put it in your last sentence while my piece says different thing.
      .

      • Serray

        The quote is yours. For someone who doesn’t remember what he wrote about a subject he turned into an article, you have an amazing cyber telepathic ability to detect I didn’t read your piece by looking at one sentence that summarized what YOU wrote. So, do you stand by it or not? Or continue with there is something in my eyes?

        http://awate.com/eritrea-call-for-cold-war-displeases-china/

        • Amanuel Hidrat

          Hey serray,
          You jumped like a dog who saw a meat to grab it, but you finally left with the bone my dear. I thought you quoted it from this article and if you read it somewhere you should cite where I commented the statement you mentioned (BTW it is not in the link you attached) But even if I said it, it doesn’t contradict to what I said in this article. I think if you want to be fed by a spoon one by one, Here it is the core of my message:
          1) I acknowledged in the comment as well as in this article that YG has detected ambivalence and heroism in degen’s inteview. I agreed on that.
          2) YG’s characterization of ambivalence as a “syndrome” is bogus. He and yourself must know what a “syndrome” is and for one who want to diagnose whether Degen has/hasn’t a syndrome, you need a meticulous study using the standardized and structured procedure of clinical psychology to determine it (I recommend you to reread it again). You can’t come, Ah yes if he has an ambivalence he has a syndrome. That what your role model has done. Again I will repeat to you Ambivalence is not a syndrome.
          3) Every human being has inherent ambivalence even yourself my friend. Go and read how preeminent philosophers will tell you the transformation of thought and how they negate it.

          4) in short I agree with YG on his detection of ambivalence. I disagree on his characterization ambivalence as syndrome. The worst thing of him and his cheerleaders still is, for something which isn’t true you try to extend your argument – the non-existent condition (syndrome) to the Eritrean people. The Eritrean people hasn’t your bogus diagnosis, which you shamelessly called it “Degen’s syndrome.” I am on a record to tell you Degen hasn’t a syndrome nor does the Eritrean people. Degen has ambivalence like every human being. If you have anything to rebut in the article you could do so without your sarcastic, bullish approach.

          • House of Stark

            hey Mr. Amanuel Hidrat.

            I’m wrong to assume that when YG use the sentence “Degen’s sydrome: the contradiction of the Eritrean mind” not as pathological dignostic of disease but as a metaphor.

          • Rahwa T

            Hi HOS,
            I still have the same understanding and couldn’t change my mind despite the repeated exchanges of comments between the giants. How could you say that you were wrong? Tell me so that I would follow your steps.

    • Tesfabirhan WR

      Dear Serray,
      I know how the bee colony acts while the beehive is destroyed and the queen gone for ever. Do you know the African bee killer who was taken to Brazil and suddenly got lost in the jungle?

      Just sorry Serray what more can I do for you. Try to fight with the last venom you have now with Emma. He better knows how to treat you. Me, no time for the lost disciplines.

      tes

    • Tesfabirhan WR

      Serray,

      Here is a speech for people like you who lost hope of the future and how young people see their future.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIbwkXZszro

      *I got it from the page infected by YG virus. May be they want to learn about the future from young and energetic people.
      tes

  • Amanuel Hidrat

    Dear Tesfat,

    Thank you to express what you felt about my approach to the issue. Remember Tesfat, as educated as you are trying to reach the apex of academia, who is aware what your job is academically and intellectually, is only to disprove or approve any thesis that comes from your peers either for public education or for academic consumption. I believe I have proved (a) that YG is not an honest writer who feels with responsibilities to the unity of his society and undermine the “up to” of his people (b) I showed him that ambivalence is not a disease or condition ,rather it is the stage of transformation in our thought process, and that ambivalence is inherent in every human being.(C) I proved Degen the hero hasn’t shown that any human being are doing, and that is “the due process of thinking” in their life of learning and teaching (b) I tried to show him his medical characterization is bogus that doesn’t have any study to backup his claim (d) If I didn’t do in my article the points I mentioned, then you could point out for me.

    Regarding about out history and our ghedli, I wrote four articles to disprove his claims. I don’t need to bring it here. Second my style is to attack the idea not to the person. I feel I did my part to uncover his diagnostic fallacy. BY the way what is you hardball against his idea without using derogatory words? I can only try to make an educated argument. If I fail to do that or short off of anything you could further the argument. I am judicious to the person but unmerciful to his bogus claim.

    regards,
    Amanuel Hidrat

    • Tesfabirhan WR

      Dear Amanuel H,
      You all mentioned it again and I do appreciated that. I just said you came very friendly. YG, not only his ideas but his personality is also a bogus. People who deny reality are psycologically labelled as “Rejectionists” and rejectionists always to prove why they deny and again and again fail to prove it so. As I said before, YG has no moral value to speak on the Eritrean hisotry and Eritrean people being an Eritrean and the reason is because he rejected the basic historical legacy of Eritrea and the people. YG’s ideas are not Eritrean, they are outside the Eritrean territory and yet physically he is attached to the Eritrean identity.

      Had YG was a philosopher, he could have loved truth, as truth is the ultimate search. Had YG was a historian, he could have read history not erase history. Had YG was a sociologist, he could have worked on the social well-being. Had YG was an Anthropologist, he could have spoken on cultural evolutions that really define the future society not based on time of injustice but at times of justice. Had YG was a psycologist, he could have first accept himself and then read the minds of others. YG is none of all these.

      I read even your previous rebutt for YG’s work (you shared it with me) and it was so great. Appreciating though, I equally call for youth in my age to challenge YG as his targets are WE, the young generations. He is thinking that we are not reading history and he is thinking that we are in trauma. I just want to tell him that we are not. We are even much stronger as we have all historical facts as they are. We are not going to argue on the 3000 years myths or land of Abyssinia and the kings like that. Just the last 120 yearswith full of primary historical recordings and political discourses are good enough to build our wisdom.

      Dear Emma, YG’s works are his own pschological fantasy and you have proved it well and a credit to his literature work is nothing but as a great hallucinator. My point towards your work is just as I said and to repeat, ÿou became so friendly” and this is what he wants. YG wants people who just embrace him with all his mistakes. Yes I am also friendly to all Eritreans not only physically but through their soul and spirit. YG has non of the two and indeed his soul is “DEAD!” and his spirit is just rumouning around Hailesselase Era.

      Hawkan Zekhbirekan
      tes

      • Amanuel Hidrat

        Dear Tesfat,

        Without going to Psychology, you could call him rejectionist – politically….because it is more safe to your argument. Second there is no such an Eritrean idea so to speak to identify us from the rest of the world. All ideas from any human being comes from different individual human being, when understood and accepted, it becomes universalized – Society to learn them and to experience them. Usually human knowledge is ignited by individual geniuses, All the inventions, discoveries, philosophies are brought by individuals, and along the way their fellow peers modify it or improve it or negate it. So if there is an Eritrean idea, it will never stand independent of it self, as ideas are always interconnected to the ideas that exist else where in the world. Yg was a student of philosophy and he knows the discipline of that study, You are a student from the hard science call it Agro-engineering, you know the subject than anyone from other discipline of study. I couldn’t say Yg he doesn’t know philosophy or Tesfat doesn’t know Agro-engineering. Such approach will not be helpful to your argument.

        So just focus to his flaws where ever it is, be it history or otherwise. Argue on it substantially based on proved facts either indirectly or directly experienced. It you do that you will be on a better position, and you can win the public mood and public mind. I don’t appreciate to attack his personality by saying “his personality is bogus”. Because it goes to the person and not to the idea, and that is crossing the red line my brother Tes.

        • Abinet

          Ato Amanuel
          With all due respect it is all your fault . You encouraged him to challenge YG knowing very well it it way beyond his potential to do so.YG is in a different league . He tried to challenge YG and ended up supporting him by saying “tegadelti don’t have their own life,….they are knowingly brainwashed ……” and more.
          I read both articles . It was painful.
          I also read yours. I hope YG gives us a visit to defend himself. In the mean time ,you were discussing about the timing of Dejen’s interview .you said that he was not settled well before the interview .My question is why does the timing matter that much? He had 15 years to reflect upon everything under the sun . He should have been ready to answer every question that comes his way . Remember ,he didn’t snap out of a coma.He had all the time to think about everything .
          Thanks

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Dear Abnet,

            There is nothing wrong Tes to write what he believes is right and he does a good job by the way. Second because one is a good writer it doesn’t mean he is right. If you have the facts one page is enough to tell the truth. If some knows his argument is flaw what a good writer does is to make his readers to be lost in the den of pages and pages synthesized words. Do you know what is the worst thing, the pages and pages of his writing hasn’t any well studied argument. Look to yourself now If you want to write about “syndrome” a new condition you want to study, you know what it takes and how difficult it is do it unless you are equipped with the knowledge of that particular discipline of study, the tools for diagnosis, the subject on study should on hand practical. If you don’t do that your project is laughable among his peers. Writers should be careful what they write and say, Because they must know that they will be scrutinized microscopically. I don’t mean writers should immune of errors. If they have done they should come up front and say I am wrong.

          • Mahmud Saleh

            Ustaz Amanuel H
            You did a wonderful job in this deep cutting and well resourced article. If you remember in the past when “dejen syndrome” was debated, I tried to raise the fact that YG got it wrong or, most likely, twisted and distorted the information regarding biet tmhrti sawra, dejen’s family attempts to locate him, and dejen’s fight to free himself, from day one, in order to fit it in to his (YG) preconceived and concluded notion of what an Eritrean person should look like. He didn’t like the buzz dejen got as a hero; perhaps YG thought that couldn’t be, not a hero Eritrean! That fatal error made him come up with poorly connected construct and jumbled up ideas. I also tried then to highlight a fact: the state of mind dejen displayed was not a new phenomenon to dejen nor to Eritreans. Any one who believes that he/she has been accused wrongly thinks justice will prevail. That happens in American justice system and elsewhere. In fact, dejen was so sharp that he started fighting with the wardens almost within hours. He kept fighting with what was available to him; adopting to new setting and situation. Here you defined the terms YG used to hoodwink readers. His audacious error was his attempt to explain current Eritrean situation from that incident. I argued then that it was disingenuous to extrapolate that young man’s unfortunate dilemma to the general Eritrean psyche. In addition to call it “dejen’s syndrome” it would mean you’ve uncovered a new social condition previously unknown. The fact is, and you have explained it beautifully, such internal fight, such moments of ambivalence are abundant in our daily life and in all social conflicts. I know I am recapping myself, but the point is, you explained a problem that I was trying to hack with an ax using a surgeon’s knife. Honestly, this is one of the best pieces I’ve come across. I am not terribly educated, but I read great literature. I like honest writer’s. You’ve been honest,sir. I also commend you for staying away from personal attacks, and giving YG the credit he deserves; no question he’s a great writer. The problem is: the theme of his writings are all predictable. Just by looking at the title of his article, one can guess what he’s going to say and skip it, unless addicted to it [him]. My advice is not to waste your time on comments that veer off substance and focus on your next article.

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Ahelen Mahmud,

            Thanks, your point is well taken. I am on the next project. The only problem is, I have time constraint. I have only Sundays. Even Sundays, only if I don’t have personal things to be done. The next article will be my view on “democratic coup”. Inshalah.

          • Abinet

            Ato Amanuel
            Sorry for the late reply. Life/work gets in the way.
            I understand that professor Tes he has the right to write what he feels is right. I am glad you approved his article in dismantling YG.
            In my opinion ,unless the standard of AWATE university is lowered,he failed miserably. I expect a lot more than his collection of words from a university professor . I have never seen a person whose purpose in life is to dismantle the writing of others while unknowingly supporting them. Just because he used all the ghetto language,it doesn’t mean he is a tough guy in the neighborhood . Of course he made a lot of noise like an empty barrel. Calling people who disagree with him like bogus,virus, empty headed….is not polite ,civilized,or doesn’t add any value to the discussion. May be this is all what he knows.
            Sew balew new yemiageTew
            Yilal yagere sew
            Thanks

          • Tesfabirhan WR

            Dear Abinet,
            You tried to misquote me again and again. I am tired of your old eyes supported by 3+ degree. I know from which angle you read me and I am not surprised for that because I know from where you are.

            tes

          • Hope

            Professor Tes(with a capital P,not a small “p”),
            Leave alone Mr Abinet.and let him bark here and there as you know well his motivatioon and intention..Why are you giving him a credit or paying attention to?Plus, he is jealous…
            As to the vulgarity:” weyo neti naten ghdifensi nai enda’maten”.
            Ignore -the diversionary –move forward,amn and go for next Scientific Articles about bringing Real Change in Eritrea.
            Now that you disected the PFDJ internal working and guiding principles,the next step is to look or hypothesize as to how to dismantle the poisonous internal workig system,but the sooner the better though,as we are running out of time.
            metsaweti be’al Abinet et al keikona khelena.
            I am looking forward to your upcoming Research Paper .

          • Amanuel Hidrat

            Ato Abnet,

            Is that the only reason I gave? You know what you have to do. Second you could do better than him. why do you wait for him to respond? If you support his argument, you could articulate it. You are capable

            thanks,
            Amanuel Hidrat

    • Tesfabirhan WR

      Sorry for the time being I am using a new address but with the same user name. Some technical problems with my sign-in.

      *A note to AT.

  • Hayat Adem

    Thanks Emma,
    I read your article with great interest and there are a number of good points in there. The generalities and principles you raised about the commitment writers and thinkers should pursue are all agreeable. Writing should be done for a purpose, and only for a good purpose. But that good purpose is mostly translated as ‘greater good for greater number of people’. But, at times, there is no easy consensus on what we accept as the “greater good”. I believe I can do a sensible argument supporting that YG is doing just that. According to him, the current tragedies are logical harvests of our wrong path and we should aim to fix the very path that is incubating them rather than reacting to every shock. Doing it right is one thing, doing the right thing is another. YG belongs to the latter. I thought using Dejen to analyze our society was very smart and powerful approach as Dejen represents the best of us.
    Hayat

    • Amanuel Hidrat

      Dear Hayatom,

      Yg told us that Degen has a “syndrome.” And in fact, that new Pathology (condition) according him, and without hesitation, he called it “Degen”s syndrome”. Furthermore, he extended that condition “syndrome” as a prevailing disease in the Eritrean society. If you stand with his argument, then, you will be forced to make your own research – a quantifiable research to substantiate his argument. if he is not “doing right” to investigate the “right thing” what makes you to support him? What is good if it isn’t good? Even myself I am saying the subject is worth of researching. But you don’t go – I think Degen has a condition and let me call it “Degen’s syndrome” without a socio-psychological clinical study. I showed him to what extend he could go without research and that is “identifying the ambivalence of Degen”. Beyond that anything he tries to put it, is simply undermining himself and his credibility. Actually my article warns not to go beyond our limits. I f we try to go beyond beyond our limits, we must know what kind of study warrant to do that. That is all.

      Amanuel Hidrat

      • T. Kifle

        Hello Amanuel H.,

        Did I read in a comment or two that you agreed on his characterization of the “ambivalence in the Eritrean mind” elsewhere in this forum? Why is the U-turn now?

  • Bayan Nagash

    Dear Amanuel,

    I am not here to comment on your central premise, rather your rebuttal to Yosief’s
    article, as I have not heard the much talked about series of interviews
    conducted by asenna with Dejen. But, what caught my attention is the prelude in
    your article that addresses notions of authorial responsibilities of varying
    degrees and the scholar Maxine that you cite, whose intellectual prowess I found
    to be trail blazer who challenged and intimidated her colleague educators
    attributable to her gender as she was challenging the status quo when higher
    education was a dominant fixture by the male species.

    That said, my interest, however, rests in the notion of the reader and the text and
    how does one go about engaging and interrogating when reading any text as a
    host of variable influence the reader, ranging from personal background,
    cultural, traditional, sociopolitical, class, religion, what have you? This is an
    inquiry being heightened from the recent dynamic exchanges that were
    coming at a neck breaking speed that I am still catching up upon and the
    curious way in which Ambassador responded to my last article as though there
    was one fixed way to read a text. Needless to say, there are myriad ways by
    which a reader interprets and analyzes a text, some of which are, but not
    limited to, Transactional Theory (“aesthetic & efferent” being its main
    tools of interpretation), Literary & Critical Multicultural Analysis, Reader Response Approach,
    Feminist Approach, of course, there still exist Marxist Approach, etc.

    In such assortment of topography in our plate we readers have as a lens at our
    disposal to engage a text, it is ostensible we end up interpreting a given text
    in such diametrically opposed fashion as it is apparent in how a man of science
    as yourself and Yosief, a student of philosophy, view the Dejen’s interview,
    which is making me way too curious now to go to visit teh interview and see where both
    of you are coming from.

    Be that as it may, when ends are ghastly open and frighteningly unpredictable,
    conjecturing is the means by which we try to make sense of things; as the means
    tend to be so variant in their scope and magnitude; making the path to
    resolution far more challengingly tenuous, at best. There seems to be a tacit
    norm that has crept in our collective psyche making our judgments, not based on
    quantitatively crunchable data, but through and through, qualities that emerge
    from everyday nuanced interactions. I have been having this gnawing feeling for
    quite some time now that I am having trouble pinning it down to a precisely ‘pinnable’
    point, but I still want to capture that moment of intuition and override all
    other seemingly logical and empirically presented evidence, but still I refuse to
    accept the abyss that seems to grip Eritrea and its people.

    The idea of “democratic coup” that my friend Sal is advancing knowing full well we
    will be prostrating ourselves at the feet of highly corrupted generals seems to
    me to be a recipe for another disaster out of which we will be hard pressed
    finding a way out – but I digressed. Well, that’s part of that gnawing feeling
    that I have been having of late creeping gently into my mind as I had no
    intention of broaching that subject in this thread, but there you go.
    Beyan/Bayan (one and the same)

    • Rodab

      Hello Beyan,
      You surprised me when you said you haven’t heard (listened to?) Dejen’s interview. No curiosity about his captivating story? What’s up my man:)
      If I have to guess I would say Dejen’s interview is numerically the most listened to/ followed ‘trended’/ discussed Erispora interview in recent years. His message accomplished two broad goals: on one hand, he lifted the ‘can do’ human spirit of the justice seeking community. On the other hand, he exposed to the bone the unjust and unaccounted system that puts folks under its control in endless misery. My hope is to see his book written/published soon enough. Under the right editors/narrators, his hook is going to be Eritrea’s best selling book of all times, thus far.
      I strongly recommend you listen to it. It is worthwhile.

      • Bayan Nagash

        Dear Roadab,

        I know Brother – it is one of the very serious weaknesses I have is precisely that – the spoken word and the visual world, such as TVs & Netflixes, and the like, remain to be the domains that I have yet to find my comfort zone in. Heaven knows I try, quick clips I am ok with, but when it is serialized like that I just put it off on the-to-watch list, but somehow never get around to it.

        The written word, on the other hand, is a different story. Now that you mentioned about a possible book being authored on Dejen’s story, that definitely will be one I know I will jump on as soon as it comes out. Nevertheless, now I am feeling the sense urgency to listen to it – heeding your strong recommendation – so much so that I will begin the first part tomorrow and see if I can do one a day subsequent to that.

        Thanks Roadab for the prompt.

    • Papillon

      Dear Beyan,

      As usual, I get this feeling of pulling a stone to sit on under a DaEro to listen to what the astute-philosopher that you’re have to say. It is always a joy to read you. Having said that however, I am kind of surprised the fact that you left out the eccentric and literary theorist Jaques Derrida as you invite the interested reader to the meanings and interpretation of texts into their sub-atomic level. I say this with a reasonable reservation for the issue at hand is Dejen’s speech not his texts where according to Derrida, speeches and texts give the intended meaning that is carried with in them in a different level of depths. That is, according to him, texts are limited to what they can only say about the words that are aligned with each other, whereas, speeches say more than the mind is trying to convey for emotions are augmented with in them. And it is fair to say that, that is the tenet of his vastly celebrated “Deconstructionism” as he unleashed an “assault” on the “Logocentricism.” Of course, if he has said or came up with something revolutionary, he must have stood on the shoulders of giants for his ideas trace their ingenuity to other great thinkers who walked on planet Earth before him. Aristotle the man who was baptized by Thomas Aquinas for his “The Unmoved Mover” revelation, introduced us also to the pure Form which manifests itself with approximation in the thing we call reality or—an “illusion.” Of interest, the key word here is “approximation”, that is, the thing we call reality is too imperfect to be taken for the shadow or the mirror or reflection of the purity of the Form. By the same token, Derrida’s discourse about the limitations of texts are based on the same notion that, they (read: texts) can not convey the intended ideas fully and completely.

      Haft’kha.

      • Beyan

        Dearest Papillon,

        No,
        no, not me under daEro, you will be sorely disappointed; I will defer that to YG,
        whose wit, his grasp on philosophy and his story telling are incomparable.
        Whatever philosophical underpinning that you think you are detecting, in yours
        truly, is stuff that has rubbed off on me from the aforementioned philosopher. I
        can eavesdrop as you two have passionate discussions on philosophy and I will
        promise this: I will make the Habesha traditional coffee myself from A to Z –
        just don’t demand that I wear netsela zuria though, that I cannot do. Hey, I may
        pull that off as well, since SGJ thinks I could as easily pass using female
        nick because I represent the female gender so adequately -:)

        It
        is interesting that you bring up Jacques Derrida, about a month shy of the
        tenth anniversary of his passing; he taught philosophy and comparative
        literature at the University of California, Irvine, close to twenty years – it is
        also a city where I used to live. They have sizable collections of his work. I
        have read bits and pieces of his work via others referencing him on issues of “archive,
        deconstructionism” and the like – it is all surface level that will leave me in
        the territory of pretentiousness, were I to try to cite from his work. But, I
        am delighted that you reminded us of how relevant Derrida’s work is to the
        discussion that Amanuel has ushered us in.

        • Papillon

          Dearest Beyan,

          Your sense of humility is something that needs to be emulated by the rest of us. In my book, you sure are a philosopher, a great thinker, a wordsmith where my impression traces back to the good old days in Dehai. Back then of course, I was a bit shy and intimidated as well where issues were discussed not in raw and crude syllables but in their refined and purified forms. That said, YG’s transformation is astounding in the sense that, he has practically dominated the intellectual sphere with his no-nonsense crusade as he tackled matters which have been hitherto taken for off-limits where the issue of Eritrean identity and the “sanctity” of Gedli come to mind. He may have read philosophy but hardly impresses one as one. He is more of a pragmatic who has taken the bull by its horns as opposed to analyzing the bull.

          On a separate but quasi related thread, I would say, there is no such a thing called compartmentalization of knowledge where the clear cut distinction we all grew up discriminating one sort of knowledge from the other is purely a social construct or Man made. How is say philosophy or literature or history any different say from the hard or life sciences? They all carry an approach of critical inquiry to falsify (read: Popper) the truth deeply buried with in them. But of course, one can not be an expert in all of them for we are constrained with the finite and limitation of time stamped on our life spans. I can’t claim to be an expert or an authority on Derrida but flirted with his ideas in my idealistic years as I believed in fact truly believed that knowledge is seamless.

          Haft’kha.

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